I agree as a survivor myself. Without proper medical intervention I would not be here. She deserved to be treated properly by medical professionals period. God rest her. I agree 100 percent with you
What a sweet man. I come from a conservative Christian upbringing. I had a few crushes on gay guys in college because they were so kind and didn't give off toxic masculinity. I can totally imagine being an order girl and wanting to marry a man like this because he would be kind and feel safe. Good for him for bravely figuring out his life and for wanting to protect his children. Blessings!❤
@@lw6084if I was in a conservative Christian situation, as a butch lesbian, I would be okay marrying this gentleman, because I know he's not a wife beating jackass and I'd protect him.
I feel you. Yes, the gay male friends I had were the ONLY ones who weren't.....well, topically masculine. I wish the best for this man. I've always been happier in a group of gay male friends than with a crowd of straight men.
U uu íiiuii88888iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. Jj bby no n. Inning innnininininni. Jo no b no on no n noon on On. Oonokinnonini o on. No onion ininijnoonij. I’m koi. No I no b jnobioninionoo. N be o boo wwwwwwn. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 ouíuiiiiug you c😢aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaee see aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaUwwwyyywwwwyyuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuj bb jk
Wow. Just wow. Lesbian here who grew up in a southern Baptist setting.......I'm so sorry Nephi, I know what it feels like to wear a mask for many many years. My family hasn't really communicated with me since they got word I was "tainted" at 16, I'm 42 now. I'm happy you got out but I am so sorry you had to go thru that. Much love to you
Damn, I'm sorry you had to deal with that!! My grandparents were Southern Baptists and my dad to this day will say he doesn't agree with homosexual practice...but there was a very, very strong principle that WAY overrode any disagreements, that we do not turn our back on family, and my uncle and his partner were treated with much more kindness. The one thing is that my uncle wasn't allowed to bring his partner to my grandparents' house, but my mom and dad made sure I got to meet both of them and they were a part of my life.
Thank you so much for sharing your life. I nearly married a Muslim man when he was young mild about his faith, my gut said no, it was so hard because I loved him. Not to many years later he became very angry and fundamental, and remains so, it was shocking but I was so glad I listened to myself! Lucky escape.
Another Order interview. Shelise, will you continue interviewing former Order members? It would be interesting to hear from a mother in the Order that has left. Every single member who has left is brave and Nephi is breaking the cycle for his kids.
Your absolutely right I'm sorry I was so worked up watching earlier ty for correcting that but yes Cathy is aswell I think she makes the soaps n things correct?
Gay and raised in a Christian polygamous cult? Oh honey, there aren't enough HUGS in the world! So much love for you. You know what is right, you feel what is right for you. Don't repeat the actions that hurt YOU. Much love!
YES. My family was Amish initially. With all the generational trauma that brings. I was the tie dyed sheep of the bunch. The FIRST to say....wait, WHAT? So I got punished A LOT. Haven't changed that attitude. BEATING someone with a Bible will not produce a Christian. If they would take the time to read and understand it.....What I got from the bible was....love your family and neighbors, don't kill, don't steal, don't covet.......I get it, and I AGREE with all that. (Though I do not consider the Bible a textbook; I DO agree with some of the sentiment.) It's just the people I was raised with did not get that out of the Bible, they apparently got something entirely else out of it. NO. It stops HERE. My one sibling continues the path......the other two? NO WAY. NOT DOING THAT ANY MORE. My child is LGBTQ+ and I love them with ALL of my heart. Why? Because GOD wanted it that way!!!!!!!
Yup. Get him on again. He has alluded to having some in depth knowledge of the inner workings of his particular former cult. There's definitely more insight to be had here.
I wonder if there is a way to charge something like medical neglect and falsely giving medical advice without a license. While "lesser" charges, I think those might be a lot more likely to make it through the court system.
@@BeingLolaStar Yeah, murder is a bit overboard. I think negligence or involuntary manslaughter would be more like it. But the fact is, he was a factor in her death.
You can see the good in this man's heart as he tells his story. Thank you so much Nephi for sharing your amazing story with us. I'm so glad you are free.
"This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man." William Shakespeare, Hamlet
Nephi has an amazing story. I admire him for sticking with his children. That's so vitally important. His mother's death is tragic. Daniel should be charged. Thanks for bringing this episode to us!
For the merch maybe something that says “critical thinking saves lives” ? I truly love your podcast. As someone who was raised Catholic, but not at all strict, I enjoy the insight into how those in high control groups work from all of these different perspectives. It’s incredibly insightful and educational and full of respect, kindness, and love. ❤❤❤
So awestruck by the fact that he truly took ownership of actions that he made. None of them were truly his fault but he still took ownership. You didnt deserve any of that pain. Im so sorry you went through that. So glad you were strong enough to leave though!!!
Nephi, this mom/grandma just wants to give your a huge hug and tell you that God loves you as your are. You are a dear, dear man. I hope your life is full of love, peace, and happiness. Oh and "to thine own self be true" is from Shakespeare's Hamlet. ;)
OMG Yes please more Nephi!!!! There is SO MUCH MORE I want to hear from him. A few off the top of my head: More stories from his early childhood, more stories from teenagehood, more stories about his marriage, more stories about his relationship with men in the cult, more about whether gay boys within the cult knew about eachother, more about fatherhood and how his approach has evolved... a joint episode with Val would be great!
When I hear them being called the order instead of the Kingston clan, I just imagine an evil organization (which they are) from a movie like a Halloween movie.
Kudos to you, Nephi, for your clarity, integrity, and courage. (And kudos to Shelise as always for sensitive and informative interviewing.) When Nephi said he blames himself for being "part of the problem," in terms of still being in the Order when he had and raised his kids during the early years, I was reminded of a wonderful quote by Maya Angelou: "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better." I look back on many mistakes I've made in my life and I've slightly revised that quote (with all due respect to Maya Angelou): "I did the best that I could when I didn't know better. Now that I know better, I do better." It has brought me some peace. Nephi, I encourage you not to blame himself and to realize that you were a product of your own upbringing and you've had the courage to leave. Be gentle with yourself and embrace your journey. Blessings to you, and peace.
I love your videos and msg. I'm not from that a cult per say. I am a 64-year-old lesbian. Being a lesbian at my age is horrible. It's very hard being the rainbow sheep of the family. I'm extremely sorry that you had to go through what you did growing up in a cult. But being a gay man in a "religious cult" would be horrible. Thank God you survived
Yey Nephi❤! He possesses a wealth of knowledge about the order and is truly an exceptional individual. Definitely someone who can expose the true nature of the order. That part about (losing your faith) that's so insane though 😅 for real!
I mean u believe what u want I think it's control over choice I do agree with that but we have a will power one way or another and eventually people like this guy and the rest who get out had will power
Nephi is such an amazing human being. He gives much grace to so many who harmed him and his family. Sad for his Mom. I love his thoughts about bringing children into such a perilous life. Thank you Nephi for sharing your experiences and I commend you for your bravery.
As well as the morally horrendous lifestyle of polygamy being unacceptable, the stealing from the US government which is all of our taxpayer money is absolutely despicable and of such an incredibly high degree of moral turpitude people need to go to jail. There need to be consequences for this illegal immoral behavior and lifestyle of thievery and abuse.
They call their process of defrauding the government “Bleeding the Beast”. Yep, they have an actual term for it. I learned of it years ago when I became curious about the FLDS.
I enjoyed Nephi so much. So calm and such a gentle spirit. I admire that even though being threatened to no contact with his children, he was willing to do what it takes. And he won! You're a great man! Look forward to future interviews!
At 1:06 - thank you for saying that so eloquently, Shelise!! I love that Nephi is out and awake to the horrors he was raised it. But it is not his fault for being born and raised in the incestuous cult. Thank you for your story, Nephi! Stay strong on this side, you are so brave. Thank you for standing up and sharing!!! ❤❤❤
"To thine own self be true" comes from Shakespeare--Hamlet, I believe. Great quote, very inspiring. So glad Nephi was able to continue having a relationship with his kids. And what a model he is to them for that wonderful quote, since he was indeed true to himself by leaving.
I feel for Nephi. It's difficult enough being gay and knowing that in the "real" world, but to have to marry and produce children, because that's what the cult demands, is a betrayal of him and his inner betrayal must have been a painful process. I hope for him only the best. Thanks, Nephi and Shelise. On a lighter note, Nephi should make a t-shirt that's "Everything But The Chicken" - that made me laugh.
It is so wonderful that Nephi does so much to be there for his kids. I wish him all the best. I would love to know more about, how it is going with seeing his kids. 🍀🍀🍀
Oh my. My heart hurts. What a completely impossible situation he is in with his daughter. Thank goodness she has such a responsible, self-reflective, compassionate father on her side. I'm sure he will find a way to guide her through it in the way she needs. 🤞❤️
It's insane people can actually think crap like this and be serious about it. smh If there is a God, they have to be shaking their head and facepalming on a regular basis.
That is NOT how marriage and courtship worked in the Regency era. Dance cards were a way to keep track of partners for each dance at a given event and nothing more, and dancing was a social activity that didn't necessarily imply marriage. Dancing exclusively with one man all evening could be seen as scandalous by some very uptight people, but a lot of society considered it rude more than anything- like I said, it was a social event for fun and you were supposed to spread yourself around as a guest. Even married couples weren't supposed to only dance with each other. Also the average age at first marriage was 20 for women, in the US and UK, and love matches were the ideal if not always the reality. The only similarity here is that you were expected to dance all the dances you physically could, and that men generally had to ask women. I'm so sick of people saying that cult courtship like this or FLDS clothing, etc. is "so 1800s," because it's not only bad history, it implies that there's a precedent for how they act in mainstream society. Which, I feel, can unintentionally contribute to legitimizing them. They are NOT turning back the clock- they're doing something either new and abhorrent, or old and considered abhorrent even when it WAS new. (There's actually an 1890s Sherlock Holmes story- albeit almost a century after the Bridgerton era -with a subplot about a young woman being rescued from polygamous arranged marriage to a much older Mormon man. They considered it disgusting back then, too.)
There were lurid exposes by ex Mormons in the 19th century during the Brigham Young period and he was something of a national pariah. Utah had to give up polygamy to become a state.
@@francisnopantses1108 I wonder how it got to England though for Conan Doyle to hear about it. But of course that was when they were trafficking young vulnerable women into the US
Seriously. What he did to the poor mom is just beyond. It was so upsetting, I had to stop listening and take a break. He arranged and organized the torture and murder of his wife. It's so fucking fucked.
Growing up as an independent fundamental Baptist, I just want to say that I may not know exactly what Nephi has gone through but I want to say that I have the most respect for the amount of care and dedication. He has to his children. Fear and internal struggle never 100% goes away. I still have a personal relationship with Jesus and God, but I do not go to church. Especially with as much neglect and abuse that I witnessed, and of course we’re not comparing but it honestly does not compared to some of the people you have. On to share their stories. But the one thing it does for me is it shows a similar struggle of being able to find yourself. thank you for doing what you do. It’s absolutely needed because there’s so many of us that may not come from the same place but similar struggles.
Oh Nephi,my mothers heart went out to you. Ur very close to my oldest sons age ,hes 37 I'm a stage 4 larynx cancer survivor, so your story about losing your mother,in that way,was more than heartbreaking, and I'm so very sorry. The fact that you have been able to hold onto your faith,and continue to be an amazing daddy,. That is beautiful. I hope you can do more videos as I can assure you there would be a ton of support love and interest in your journey. Sending you both lots of love and thank you ❤❤
It's nice to see her cousins coming out of the cult he was raised in. Strong people are making things right, its nice to meet another brother to see Jessica, Val, Amanda 2.0 along with Joe to see his side of the story.
Wow! Nephi - you are the ultimate in accountability and self-reflection. That is the highest of integrity. If there is a God, that God thinks you’re so special. So glad you were built differently. What an example for your children and for men of all types. I’m so impressed.
16:07 a moment of levity amidst the suffering and abuse-your manner when you said FIFTEEN?! together with your recently becoming a first-time mom made me laugh *so* hard. I bet you’ve been recalculating a lot of things since that day, and wish you more and deeper sleep soon.
Can we mention the food stamp thing. All these people getting food stamps. I live in New England. My mother started working at 14 years old. She worked until she was 72. She’s 85 now and she still works 20 hours a week. There’s a lot of things she can’t affordand kids try to help her out. We talked her into applying for food stamps a few years ago. They said she was allowed $100 a month which piss me off.
Seniors especially need good nutrition. I'm now 74. My SS was 1,400. Per month at the start. I was #entiteld# to $16.00 per month. I took it because I had to. After several years of increases in S.S. and decreases equal to each other, I gave up applying every year as the gas to get there and back to do so so was more than the food stamps for that month. I now live with my oldest daughter and family. I did not want to give up my self sufficiency, But we are all better off shareing bills than alone.
It's almost impressive that every time one of Daniel's kids gives an interview, except maybe Alison, it gets worse. He should be charged with murder of that poor woman. I'm glad Nephi is out and living his best life Obviously Alison still went through a lot, I'm not putting her experience down
so beautiful to see a man so dedicated to staying in his children's life and to be there for them. I'm sending you positive vibes for the next chapter in your life
Love this interview. What a brave soul! Reminds me of Shakespeare: "This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man." (Hamlet)
Even through everything he is still so positive, so proud of his children and being a dad. I wish the best for him as he goes through life finding who he really is and not what The Order told him he was supposed to be. I can’t imagine being forced to be something I knew I wasn’t in my heart, so I really admire his strength and resilience.
32:29 - this type of "acceptance" of queer people was also the case in my high demand cult. They never said anything bad publicly or in public classes, they were absent in the literature, the teachings of how to prep for marriage, ect. It was this silence that started to scream loudly.
Let’s not skip over the fact that the public is subsidizing all this, by plan, through food stamps. Danial deliberately kept wages low, so that his flock can benefit from food stamps. Yet another feather in Daniel’s deplorable cap.😢
Thank you for sharing your story Nephi! Your courage to come out and live your true self and take the risk of losing it all. Keep on living your best life - happy Pride Month 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
I just want to communicate how impressed I am w/ your clear imperative of personal ethics, especially evident when you talk about your kids. Congrats on your freedom, Nephi! Thank you for sharing your story w/ us. P.S., as a single mom, I 100% identify w/ your prioritization of your kids’ well-being, bc you know you gotta do both parents’ worth of looking out for their best interests, as you see them 💜⚡️ Come back soon- we would love to hear more about any aspect of your experience you’d like to share.
Another great interview Shelise and Nephi has done so well to go through what he did to come out on top ❤ there are so many layers to what happens to you when you leave one of these cults. Those that get out are such an inspiration and an example to us all🙏💞💓
Nuts they’d wanna cut him off as a dad when he’s the most committed dad both financially & emotionally. Hopefully having some time with him in this world will make some of them choose to leave eventually & they’ll have him waiting on the outside & someone to be there to help them learn this world. What an amazing guy, thanks for sharing your story. Your bravery is SO admirable!!!💜
Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that the US government, news reporters, or documentarians are not talking more about The Order? You can Google it and all you see is basically ex members or channels like this are the only ones talking about it. Why isn't more being done? The stuff that Daniel Kingston has done are despicable let alone all 7 brothers! It's time to change this! Y'all are so strong for coming forward ❤
I'm so proud of each and every person who stands up and says no - and goes ahead to take the hard road of unknowns ahead. I'm sure it's a scary choice and wow I'm just in awe of anyone who is able to think for themselves and be one less person for these cult leaders to control. The world would be a better place if more people did what Nephi and others like him are doing ✌
I thought I had it hard leaving Islam and a semi strict Muslim family but listening to Nephi, I realise Im not as brave as I thought I was for leaving. If I was Nephi, I don't think I could have built up the courage to leave his life in the Mormons. Much respect to you sir 🙌
It’s nice to hear from the men coming out of these groups. I’m sorry to say the word nice given what they have been through. I am glad they have left, moved on, are speaking out, and are living happy successful lives. It must be so hard. I think it’s twice as hard on the men to leave. Many have no education and we all know there are battered women shelters but what about the men?
If it is possible, it would be so interesting to hear from an ex Order member who was not part of the Kingston family. How did they experience always being a second class member, and how did a mother feel about giving her daughters to Kingston, but her sons have to remain unmarried?
In my opinion Daniel should be charged with the murder of Nephi’s mother.
Definitely. I wonder if Nephi could help make that happen?
Came here to say the same thing.
Sounds exactly like what Scientology does to the members
I agree as a survivor myself. Without proper medical intervention I would not be here. She deserved to be treated properly by medical professionals period. God rest her. I agree 100 percent with you
I fully agree. There’s a lot he should be charged with
What a sweet man. I come from a conservative Christian upbringing. I had a few crushes on gay guys in college because they were so kind and didn't give off toxic masculinity. I can totally imagine being an order girl and wanting to marry a man like this because he would be kind and feel safe. Good for him for bravely figuring out his life and for wanting to protect his children. Blessings!❤
53 woman, I’ve been attracted to gay men my entire life. Especially androgynous people. 🤷♀️ They still make great friends.
@@lw6084if I was in a conservative Christian situation, as a butch lesbian, I would be okay marrying this gentleman, because I know he's not a wife beating jackass and I'd protect him.
I feel you. Yes, the gay male friends I had were the ONLY ones who weren't.....well, topically masculine. I wish the best for this man. I've always been happier in a group of gay male friends than with a crowd of straight men.
Girl same! It became a joke in my friend group but really…it was a response to the toxic straight men in my life.
U uu íiiuii88888iiiiiiiiiiiiiiii. Jj bby no n. Inning innnininininni. Jo no b no on no n noon on On. Oonokinnonini o on. No onion ininijnoonij. I’m koi. No I no b jnobioninionoo. N be o boo wwwwwwn. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 ouíuiiiiug you c😢aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaee see aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaUwwwyyywwwwyyuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuj bb jk
Wow. Just wow. Lesbian here who grew up in a southern Baptist setting.......I'm so sorry Nephi, I know what it feels like to wear a mask for many many years. My family hasn't really communicated with me since they got word I was "tainted" at 16, I'm 42 now. I'm happy you got out but I am so sorry you had to go thru that. Much love to you
Damn, I'm sorry you had to deal with that!! My grandparents were Southern Baptists and my dad to this day will say he doesn't agree with homosexual practice...but there was a very, very strong principle that WAY overrode any disagreements, that we do not turn our back on family, and my uncle and his partner were treated with much more kindness. The one thing is that my uncle wasn't allowed to bring his partner to my grandparents' house, but my mom and dad made sure I got to meet both of them and they were a part of my life.
Treating cancer with a TENS machine? He killed her with narcissism.
Shelise’s face when he talked about mating season 😂😂 The only thing you can do is laugh because otherwise you’d cry or vomit!
Thank you so much for sharing your life. I nearly married a Muslim man when he was young mild about his faith, my gut said no, it was so hard because I loved him. Not to many years later he became very angry and fundamental, and remains so, it was shocking but I was so glad I listened to myself! Lucky escape.
Very lucky escape. WOW.
Another Order interview. Shelise, will you continue interviewing former Order members? It would be interesting to hear from a mother in the Order that has left.
Every single member who has left is brave and Nephi is breaking the cycle for his kids.
Trying soooo hard to get Val’s mom on
Cathy rocks , u can see the spunk still in their they didn't breed or beat it out of em . Val, shanelle, and Cathy got fight in them ! Whoopwhoop
🤞🤞
@@jwright615Cathy is his aunt his mom is Shirley ❤ but both are awesome spunky women
Your absolutely right I'm sorry I was so worked up watching earlier ty for correcting that but yes Cathy is aswell I think she makes the soaps n things correct?
Oh my! 15, and a college Freshman?! 😮 I give you so much credit, Nephi. You put up with SO much! Glad you got out! All the best!
Gay and raised in a Christian polygamous cult? Oh honey, there aren't enough HUGS in the world! So much love for you. You know what is right, you feel what is right for you. Don't repeat the actions that hurt YOU. Much love!
Break the silence. Break the cycle.
I was just about to say this but I’m late to the party this morning. Truer words were never spoken! ❤
@@katwitanrunaabsolutely ❤
Amen!
YES. My family was Amish initially. With all the generational trauma that brings. I was the tie dyed sheep of the bunch. The FIRST to say....wait, WHAT? So I got punished A LOT. Haven't changed that attitude. BEATING someone with a Bible will not produce a Christian. If they would take the time to read and understand it.....What I got from the bible was....love your family and neighbors, don't kill, don't steal, don't covet.......I get it, and I AGREE with all that. (Though I do not consider the Bible a textbook; I DO agree with some of the sentiment.) It's just the people I was raised with did not get that out of the Bible, they apparently got something entirely else out of it. NO. It stops HERE. My one sibling continues the path......the other two? NO WAY. NOT DOING THAT ANY MORE. My child is LGBTQ+ and I love them with ALL of my heart. Why? Because GOD wanted it that way!!!!!!!
Each additional former member's perspective hits he harder than the last.
Yup. Get him on again. He has alluded to having some in depth knowledge of the inner workings of his particular former cult. There's definitely more insight to be had here.
Daniel clearly killed Nephis mother. The average person would be charged with murder. Just mind-boggling??
I wonder if there is a way to charge something like medical neglect and falsely giving medical advice without a license. While "lesser" charges, I think those might be a lot more likely to make it through the court system.
@@BeingLolaStar Yeah, murder is a bit overboard. I think negligence or involuntary manslaughter would be more like it. But the fact is, he was a factor in her death.
Daniel needs to go to jail for his MANY crimes.
There’s probably police/judges/prosecutors that are in The Order and they protect their own.
You can see the good in this man's heart as he tells his story. Thank you so much Nephi for sharing your amazing story with us. I'm so glad you are free.
“To thine own self be true.” -William Shakespeare
Spoken by Polonius in Act I Scene III of Hamlet
Polonius giving long list of advice to his son Laertes, which also included: a borrower nor lender be.
Yeah I thought that one was Shakespeare
Nephi...you have such integrity and kindness. That can be a rare thing in this world. Your children are so blessed to have you as a father.
I’m glad he talked about his dad only coming over on his mother’s cycle! It makes sense that he has so many kids
What a nightmare for him! So glad he was able to find his way out.
"This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man." William Shakespeare, Hamlet
I love they both didn't know where that came from. 😂 made me laugh, and i hate shakespeare. Lol
Nephi has an amazing story. I admire him for sticking with his children. That's so vitally important. His mother's death is tragic. Daniel should be charged. Thanks for bringing this episode to us!
Shelise you are correct. I went to visit a Mormon LDS church for some reason I was asked if I was gay. When I replied Yes I was asked to leave
For the merch maybe something that says “critical thinking saves lives” ? I truly love your podcast. As someone who was raised Catholic, but not at all strict, I enjoy the insight into how those in high control groups work from all of these different perspectives. It’s incredibly insightful and educational and full of respect, kindness, and love. ❤❤❤
Thank you! I’m glad it’s been helpful! And it DOES save lives!
Great interview. The order sounds like an MLM taken to the extreme. Nephy I hope your kids come to awareness and leave the Order.
So awestruck by the fact that he truly took ownership of actions that he made. None of them were truly his fault but he still took ownership. You didnt deserve any of that pain. Im so sorry you went through that. So glad you were strong enough to leave though!!!
I am glad to have watched this despite it triggering my religious trauma. Power to Survivors! 🌈❣️Thank you for always being an Ally! ❤
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Nephi, this mom/grandma just wants to give your a huge hug and tell you that God loves you as your are. You are a dear, dear man. I hope your life is full of love, peace, and happiness. Oh and "to thine own self be true" is from Shakespeare's Hamlet. ;)
OMG Yes please more Nephi!!!! There is SO MUCH MORE I want to hear from him. A few off the top of my head: More stories from his early childhood, more stories from teenagehood, more stories about his marriage, more stories about his relationship with men in the cult, more about whether gay boys within the cult knew about eachother, more about fatherhood and how his approach has evolved... a joint episode with Val would be great!
When I hear them being called the order instead of the Kingston clan, I just imagine an evil organization (which they are) from a movie like a Halloween movie.
That seems to about describe it, though!
Omg so right. They are also the Davis County CoOp which feels like a cover story hippie farm stand
i feel like a family called kingston and then calling it a clan is also a bit foreboding tbh, but maybe that's just the context we already have
You need a new shirt Shelise -everything but the chicken 🐔
Love it!
Kudos to you, Nephi, for your clarity, integrity, and courage. (And kudos to Shelise as always for sensitive and informative interviewing.) When Nephi said he blames himself for being "part of the problem," in terms of still being in the Order when he had and raised his kids during the early years, I was reminded of a wonderful quote by Maya Angelou: "Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better." I look back on many mistakes I've made in my life and I've slightly revised that quote (with all due respect to Maya Angelou): "I did the best that I could when I didn't know better. Now that I know better, I do better." It has brought me some peace. Nephi, I encourage you not to blame himself and to realize that you were a product of your own upbringing and you've had the courage to leave. Be gentle with yourself and embrace your journey. Blessings to you, and peace.
Great advice
Really great advice. I am trying to do the same.
I love your videos and msg. I'm not from that a cult per say. I am a 64-year-old lesbian. Being a lesbian at my age is horrible. It's very hard being the rainbow sheep of the family. I'm extremely sorry that you had to go through what you did growing up in a cult. But being a gay man in a "religious cult" would be horrible. Thank God you survived
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Yey Nephi❤! He possesses a wealth of knowledge about the order and is truly an exceptional individual. Definitely someone who can expose the true nature of the order. That part about (losing your faith) that's so insane though 😅 for real!
This channel will go down in history as instrumental in breaking the bible belt.
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I mean u believe what u want I think it's control over choice I do agree with that but we have a will power one way or another and eventually people like this guy and the rest who get out had will power
Nephi is such an amazing human being. He gives much grace to so many who harmed him and his family. Sad for his Mom. I love his thoughts about bringing children into such a perilous life. Thank you Nephi for sharing your experiences and I commend you for your bravery.
As well as the morally horrendous lifestyle of polygamy being unacceptable, the stealing from the US government which is all of our taxpayer money is absolutely despicable and of such an incredibly high degree of moral turpitude people need to go to jail. There need to be consequences for this illegal immoral behavior and lifestyle of thievery and abuse.
They call their process of defrauding the government “Bleeding the Beast”. Yep, they have an actual term for it. I learned of it years ago when I became curious about the FLDS.
These are the same people to call people welfare queens as well. Yet literally are just projecting
The previous leader Daniel's dad was sued for that, he paid a large fine rather than go to jail for some kind of welfare fraud
I just adore nephi❤❤❤ hes a great guy. I was raised in a cult too. Overcoming shame is a real thing
I enjoyed Nephi so much. So calm and such a gentle spirit. I admire that even though being threatened to no contact with his children, he was willing to do what it takes. And he won! You're a great man! Look forward to future interviews!
At 1:06 - thank you for saying that so eloquently, Shelise!! I love that Nephi is out and awake to the horrors he was raised it. But it is not his fault for being born and raised in the incestuous cult. Thank you for your story, Nephi! Stay strong on this side, you are so brave. Thank you for standing up and sharing!!! ❤❤❤
"To thine own self be true" comes from Shakespeare--Hamlet, I believe. Great quote, very inspiring. So glad Nephi was able to continue having a relationship with his kids. And what a model he is to them for that wonderful quote, since he was indeed true to himself by leaving.
Nephi, your beautiful soul shines through. Keep true to your own self!
Shelise, and Johnathan you are helping so many voices!!!
❤️❤️❤️
I feel for Nephi. It's difficult enough being gay and knowing that in the "real" world, but to have to marry and produce children, because that's what the cult demands, is a betrayal of him and his inner betrayal must have been a painful process. I hope for him only the best. Thanks, Nephi and Shelise. On a lighter note, Nephi should make a t-shirt that's "Everything But The Chicken" - that made me laugh.
It is so wonderful that Nephi does so much to be there for his kids. I wish him all the best. I would love to know more about, how it is going with seeing his kids. 🍀🍀🍀
It absolutely blows my mind how much power and authority is given to the "head of household" men with zero responsibility or accountability.
Enemas in addition to starvation?? That’s insane.
Oh my. My heart hurts. What a completely impossible situation he is in with his daughter. Thank goodness she has such a responsible, self-reflective, compassionate father on her side. I'm sure he will find a way to guide her through it in the way she needs. 🤞❤️
😂😂that’s funny af…. Gay because you ate too much chicken.
😂😂😂😂😂
@@we.r.wine.bottles.im.at.work.and mating season…. That’s funny.
My friend’s grandmother said that she was gay because her mother wore jogging pants when she was pregnant with her 🤦🏻♀️
It's insane people can actually think crap like this and be serious about it. smh If there is a God, they have to be shaking their head and facepalming on a regular basis.
@@DustinAxelson seriously!!!
That is NOT how marriage and courtship worked in the Regency era. Dance cards were a way to keep track of partners for each dance at a given event and nothing more, and dancing was a social activity that didn't necessarily imply marriage. Dancing exclusively with one man all evening could be seen as scandalous by some very uptight people, but a lot of society considered it rude more than anything- like I said, it was a social event for fun and you were supposed to spread yourself around as a guest. Even married couples weren't supposed to only dance with each other. Also the average age at first marriage was 20 for women, in the US and UK, and love matches were the ideal if not always the reality. The only similarity here is that you were expected to dance all the dances you physically could, and that men generally had to ask women.
I'm so sick of people saying that cult courtship like this or FLDS clothing, etc. is "so 1800s," because it's not only bad history, it implies that there's a precedent for how they act in mainstream society. Which, I feel, can unintentionally contribute to legitimizing them. They are NOT turning back the clock- they're doing something either new and abhorrent, or old and considered abhorrent even when it WAS new.
(There's actually an 1890s Sherlock Holmes story- albeit almost a century after the Bridgerton era -with a subplot about a young woman being rescued from polygamous arranged marriage to a much older Mormon man. They considered it disgusting back then, too.)
It amused me so much rereading Sherlock Holmes to realise he remembered Brigham Young's existence twice and was just hell no
A Study in Scarlet certainly didn't paint the LDS church very favorably
There were lurid exposes by ex Mormons in the 19th century during the Brigham Young period and he was something of a national pariah. Utah had to give up polygamy to become a state.
@@francisnopantses1108 I wonder how it got to England though for Conan Doyle to hear about it. But of course that was when they were trafficking young vulnerable women into the US
Daniel needs to go to Jail.
All of the leaders do.
Seriously. What he did to the poor mom is just beyond. It was so upsetting, I had to stop listening and take a break. He arranged and organized the torture and murder of his wife. It's so fucking fucked.
AMAZING MAN, a REAL man, adorable, smart, witty, well spoken! ( beautiful blues)
Also, would love to see a picture of you with your Mom
Nephi, thank you for sharing so openly and honestly. You’re an amazing man.
Growing up as an independent fundamental Baptist, I just want to say that I may not know exactly what Nephi has gone through but I want to say that I have the most respect for the amount of care and dedication. He has to his children. Fear and internal struggle never 100% goes away. I still have a personal relationship with Jesus and God, but I do not go to church. Especially with as much neglect and abuse that I witnessed, and of course we’re not comparing but it honestly does not compared to some of the people you have. On to share their stories. But the one thing it does for me is it shows a similar struggle of being able to find yourself. thank you for doing what you do. It’s absolutely needed because there’s so many of us that may not come from the same place but similar struggles.
Thank you for sharing your story Nephi. It’s so brave to leave what you know and try to begin again.
Aww Nephi reminds me of both Val and Eskel! Omg love Joe, glad he's doing so well 💜
Me too! I heard the name and my first thought was "he's Joe's brother!!"
What a beautiful man Nephi is... so much wisdom and integrity!
The more of these I listen to the more I realize how much eugenics are at play.
Oh Nephi,my mothers heart went out to you. Ur very close to my oldest sons age ,hes 37
I'm a stage 4 larynx cancer survivor, so your story about losing your mother,in that way,was more than heartbreaking, and I'm so very sorry. The fact that you have been able to hold onto your faith,and continue to be an amazing daddy,. That is beautiful. I hope you can do more videos as I can assure you there would be a ton of support love and interest in your journey. Sending you both lots of love and thank you ❤❤
Sending you love too!
@@CultstoConsciousness ❤
It's nice to see her cousins coming out of the cult he was raised in. Strong people are making things right, its nice to meet another brother to see Jessica, Val, Amanda 2.0 along with Joe to see his side of the story.
Sending love to you Nephi! Thank you so much for sharing your story. Wishing you all the happiness
I see so much pain and sadness in Nephi. Let me give you the biggest comfort hug I can possibly give. Hope your rips survive that 😉
He is so smart. To go to college even if just for an associates and have the pressure of paying for everything, it’s just amazing to me.
Nephi is such a pure soul with a great big heart.
What a kind, thoughtful young man! I hope you find your true happiness in life.
Such a kind person. I appreciated him telling his story and being vulnerable. Glad he is seeing his kids!
Wow! Nephi - you are the ultimate in accountability and self-reflection. That is the highest of integrity. If there is a God, that God thinks you’re so special. So glad you were built differently. What an example for your children and for men of all types. I’m so impressed.
16:07 a moment of levity amidst the suffering and abuse-your manner when you said FIFTEEN?! together with your recently becoming a first-time mom made me laugh *so* hard. I bet you’ve been recalculating a lot of things since that day, and wish you more and deeper sleep soon.
Can we mention the food stamp thing. All these people getting food stamps. I live in New England. My mother started working at 14 years old. She worked until she was 72. She’s 85 now and she still works 20 hours a week. There’s a lot of things she can’t affordand kids try to help her out. We talked her into applying for food stamps a few years ago. They said she was allowed $100 a month which piss me off.
The FLDS lives to scam the government. Welfare fraud is common in fundamentalist groups. Tge FLDS calls it"bleeding the beast" 😂
Seniors especially need good nutrition. I'm now 74. My SS was 1,400. Per month at the start. I was #entiteld# to $16.00 per month. I took it because I had to. After several years of increases in S.S. and decreases equal to each other, I gave up applying every year as the gas to get there and back to do so so was more than the food stamps for that month. I now live with my oldest daughter and family. I did not want to give up my self sufficiency, But we are all better off shareing bills than alone.
It's almost impressive that every time one of Daniel's kids gives an interview, except maybe Alison, it gets worse. He should be charged with murder of that poor woman. I'm glad Nephi is out and living his best life
Obviously Alison still went through a lot, I'm not putting her experience down
so beautiful to see a man so dedicated to staying in his children's life and to be there for them. I'm sending you positive vibes for the next chapter in your life
He has that many kids and still looks handsome AF. I look haggard taking care of one kid!
"To thine own self be true" is a line from Hamlet 🙂
This is so inspirational. Thank you.
Good lord, the financial arrangement sounds as bad or worse as sharecropping.
Keep them dependent and buissy
Thank You for sharing Your story!! Happy Pride!! 🌈
Thank you for sharing your story! So happy you fought for your kids! And yourself! ❤
"To thine own self be true" is from Shakespeare's Hamlet.
Great interview, what an incredible man.
Love this interview. What a brave soul! Reminds me of Shakespeare: "This above all: to thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any man." (Hamlet)
“I’ve been watching a lot of bridgerton lately” me too Shelise, me too.
😉💅🏻
Just 1 supportive adult in the life of an LGBTQIA youth, reduces the their self harm ideation significantly.
Nephi, I'm so terribly sorry about your mom. I lost my mom to cancer as well, and it was horrible to watch.
*Wave* Over here! If your parents rejected you; WE will love you! (Momhugs California)
You have had a hard road to travel. Thank you for being true to who you are as God made you! Also thank you for shareing with us.
Even through everything he is still so positive, so proud of his children and being a dad. I wish the best for him as he goes through life finding who he really is and not what The Order told him he was supposed to be. I can’t imagine being forced to be something I knew I wasn’t in my heart, so I really admire his strength and resilience.
41:29 This is what dating was like in my cult except you had to get permission from your mentor in the church.
He’s such a beautiful person ❤ So happy that he’s able to experience authenticity with himself and the joy that comes with that.
32:29 - this type of "acceptance" of queer people was also the case in my high demand cult. They never said anything bad publicly or in public classes, they were absent in the literature, the teachings of how to prep for marriage, ect. It was this silence that started to scream loudly.
Oh my goodness I love him so much. His kindness absolutely radiates off him.
Let’s not skip over the fact that the public is subsidizing all this, by plan, through food stamps. Danial deliberately kept wages low, so that his flock can benefit from food stamps. Yet another feather in Daniel’s deplorable cap.😢
yep, don't associate with the fallen, but take their hard-earned money!
Thank you for sharing your story Nephi! Your courage to come out and live your true self and take the risk of losing it all. Keep on living your best life - happy Pride Month 🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
ok, no one has said but i will: this young man has gorgeous blue eyes... And his tshirt really make a good match with his eyes!!
"Everything but the chicken .." 😂😂😂😂😂😂
I just want to communicate how impressed I am w/ your clear imperative of personal ethics, especially evident when you talk about your kids.
Congrats on your freedom, Nephi! Thank you for sharing your story w/ us.
P.S., as a single mom, I 100% identify w/ your prioritization of your kids’ well-being, bc you know you gotta do both parents’ worth of looking out for their best interests, as you see them 💜⚡️
Come back soon- we would love to hear more about any aspect of your experience you’d like to share.
Another great interview Shelise and Nephi has done so well to go through what he did to come out on top ❤ there are so many layers to what happens to you when you leave one of these cults. Those that get out are such an inspiration and an example to us all🙏💞💓
Glad you enjoyed it!
Only 20 minutes in but Nephi seems like such a sweet soul! His energy is so chill and kind.
So true, Ill have a 6 piece chicken McNuggets, black out, and wake up in a gay bar
😂😅😂😂
Nuts they’d wanna cut him off as a dad when he’s the most committed dad both financially & emotionally. Hopefully having some time with him in this world will make some of them choose to leave eventually & they’ll have him waiting on the outside & someone to be there to help them learn this world. What an amazing guy, thanks for sharing your story. Your bravery is SO admirable!!!💜
Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that the US government, news reporters, or documentarians are not talking more about The Order? You can Google it and all you see is basically ex members or channels like this are the only ones talking about it. Why isn't more being done? The stuff that Daniel Kingston has done are despicable let alone all 7 brothers! It's time to change this! Y'all are so strong for coming forward ❤
Thank you Shalise and Nephi. This is such a Great interview 👏 ❤❤❤. He found his self ,YES❣️❣️❣️
I'm so proud of each and every person who stands up and says no - and goes ahead to take the hard road of unknowns ahead. I'm sure it's a scary choice and wow I'm just in awe of anyone who is able to think for themselves and be one less person for these cult leaders to control. The world would be a better place if more people did what Nephi and others like him are doing ✌
I thought I had it hard leaving Islam and a semi strict Muslim family but listening to Nephi, I realise Im not as brave as I thought I was for leaving. If I was Nephi, I don't think I could have built up the courage to leave his life in the Mormons. Much respect to you sir 🙌
Thank you, Nephi! ❤
"To thine own self be true." is a quote from Shakespeare's play Hamblet.
I'm glad to hear Nephi's story and I'm glad to hear he seems to be doing ok now. He is strong, brave and resilient.
It’s nice to hear from the men coming out of these groups. I’m sorry to say the word nice given what they have been through. I am glad they have left, moved on, are speaking out, and are living happy successful lives. It must be so hard. I think it’s twice as hard on the men to leave. Many have no education and we all know there are battered women shelters but what about the men?
If it is possible, it would be so interesting to hear from an ex Order member who was not part of the Kingston family. How did they experience always being a second class member, and how did a mother feel about giving her daughters to Kingston, but her sons have to remain unmarried?