"Operation Armageddon" - Ireland's Secret Plan to Invade Northern Ireland In 1969
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- Опубликовано: 2 авг 2024
- Today the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom share a border in the north of the island of Ireland in the aptly named country of Northern Ireland. It was the location of the ethno-religious conflict referred to as the "Troubles" or Northern Ireland Conflict which lasted from 1969 to 1998, pitting largely Catholic Republicans seeking union with the Republic of Ireland against largely Protestant Unionists/Loyalists wishing to maintain Northern Ireland's status as part of the United Kingdom. While eventually the Republic of Ireland would play a largely passive role, at its outset in 1969, the government of Taoiseach Jack Lynch seriously considered a military intervention to end the violence in neighbouring (London)/Derry. The Irish Army prepared 'Operation Armageddon', a war game exercise to determine a possible strategy for the invasion of Northern Ireland.
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0:00 - Intro
1:06 - Historical Background of the Troubles
5:06 - Irish Plan to Invade Northern Ireland
7:38 - Military Obstacles
9:56 - Political Obstacles
12:27 - The Republic of Ireland's Role in the Troubles
13:53 - Outro
Music Used:
Desert City - Kevin MacLeod
Expeditionary - Kevin MacLeod
Ever Mindful - Kevin MacLeod
Infados - Kevin MacLeod
Energizing - Kevin MacLeod
Sunday Dub - Kevin MacLeod
Send me an email if you'd be interested in doing a collaboration! historywithhilbert@gmail.com
#Ireland #Eire #northernireland
Just a note as someone from the city, almost everyone here (both unionist and nationalist) calls it Derry. Its just much faster to say. The people who call its Londonderry arent generally from the place
either way for speed and ease or not it’s derry, always had been and always will be
DOIRE
The last two commenters only highlights the level of ignorance and sectarianism that exists in Northern Ireland today.
@@Oscarhobbit my comment is neither
@@Oscarhobbit not sectarian when both comments, mine and the other persons are historical facts.
Should've been called : Operation Armaghgeddon
Hahahaa lovely 👌
Nice
😁😁😁
Armaghzing
Ljouwert- Derry, that is nice !
Little known fact: Taoiseach and Tanist are from the Ancient Irish Clan election system called Tanistry. Clan leaders were elected by their kinsmen (derbfine). The Irish prime minister and deputy prime minister now use the titles.
*Tánaiste not tanist for the title but yeah
That's pretty cool
Someone played their CK3
Why do they still use this system? Is their crown authority too low? Primogeniture is the best.
@@njb1126 Crown authority? Whats that?
The Irish military was around the same size as the RUC alone
While Derry might be regarded as close to the border, it could be cut off from the rest of Ireland by just cutting off the whole of Donegal. This would have left any Irish regular army force in Derry completely isolated and unsupplied.
I would expect that the professional officers of the Irish regular army would have been completely aware that they had no chance militarily, and would have explicitly told this to any politicians
There was only the one bridge in BallyShannon and another in Beleek. Then they would have been forced into Enniskillen and would have had to travel through miles of Unionist leaning farmland. It would have got mess and ended in a total disaster not just militarily but also politically as ten's of thousands of British subjects came streaming out of the invaded areas. As bad as things were in Belfast it was never as bad as some would have you believe, the areas of most violence where were the two different communities clashed, many areas of Northern Ireland didn't have any trouble and it was not until in many case the Protestants driven from their home in places like Belfast turn on their new Catholic neighbours were they settles in the suburbs. Before 1969 Belfast was in a faze of depopulation as populations move out to the new towns commissioned by Stormont to rehouse Belfast's population as part of the UK wide slum clears of the 1950s and 1960s. Thankfully the Irish government came to it's sense and didn't follow out this disaster, unfortunately the IRA carried through with it ending in disaster for many.
@@robert6106 and failure.
@@raftonpounder6696 Very much so.
Or they could have just used the river as the cut off point, but sadly it had military use for docking etc.
The main aim was to get international attention on Northern Ireland. The Republic wanted to bring the issue to the UN this did make sense because internationally and there was a lot of sympathy for the Nationalists.
I remember I had a lecture from the Netherlands and I asked him about how the trouble was perceived there given the William up at Orange link and he said The unionists particularly Ian Paisley reminder the older generation of the Nazis.
This is why Britain try to keep the Northern Ireland a internal issue because it knew that there was sympathy for the Nationalists in the International community.
"Troubles" always hated that term, you have trouble putting on your socks....fixing your car....doing the house work. The killing of men women and children from either side and calling it a terrible trouble was ridicules. I hated it, growing up and being surrounded by it
only catholic women and children were killed (by the UVF/UDR),the IRA never attacked protestant innocent civilians...
@@-jank-willson you make sound like that was ok
@@-jank-willson
Well, the I R A actually did attack innocent protestant civilians.
Deliberately.
Its well documented and explained by I R A statements , that it was to put an end to sectarian attacks by the UVF in Armagh, Tyrone and Fermanagh.
The UDA were not particularly good at targeting anyone so they went for soft easy targets.
The S Armage I R A decided to show that if the UVF did not stop, then theyd would be far far more efficient and deadly in that type of attack. So they had to sacrifice some innocents in order to demonstrate that
The statement after the "Darkly Massacre" (3 dead,several wounded) said (roughly) "If we wanted to pursue a sectarian war we could have gone into the church and killed all 30, so stop sectarian attacks now "
--------------------------------------------------------
And after Darky and Kingsmill , all sectarian attacks by the UVF /PAF stopped in those 3 counties.
Thats when the British increased sharing information with the UDA and began giving them I R A and SF addresses and helped plan proper attacks for them.
-----------------------------------
Extra;................
*Even the movie 71 goes into that*
In that film theres an editing mistake, which was fixed for netflix.
I saw the original when the title was "Battle line 71"
There was a different storyline for the bomb which is patched up very very badly for Netflix and CD.
The bomb was supposed to go off in the Loyalist pub , to create a Loyalist reaction and speed up support for the more radical Provisionals.
Thats why the lost soldier was left there. (because he saw the collusion)
Even after trying to fix the editing mistake, its not explained why the MRF drove off without the soldier.
Same reason why he tried to strangle him later.
@@-jank-willson Yes but they had no problem with collateral damage did they?
The IRA would mow down 10 civilians if it meant killing one soldier.
The IRA would blow up a bus full of school children if it meant killing the part time police man driver (they actually did do this by the way)
They’d blow up and entire building full of people if it meant they had a shot at a high profile person like The Queen.
So don’t come in here portraying as if the IRA were better than the Loyalist death squads. They weren’t.
They were equally as bad as each other and the sooner you accept that and move on, THE SOONER WE MAY LIVE IN HARMONY!
@@olliephelan no they didn't, not intentionally...
What you need to invade Northern Ireland:
- brand new shiny helmet
- pair of kinky boots
- lovely new flak jacket
- lovely khaki suit
- go on night patrol
- hold each other's hands
Optional but NOT recommended: the British Army to take your land
I'm English (sorry) even I get this haha
@@saintfan07UK listen to the Irish song Kinky Boots and you will mate
@@The_Republic_of_Ireland I have, that's why I get it. To be fair I've listened to quite a few irish rebel songs and do on a regular basis
Got my squad mates to sing it a few times while marching and training. It's a catchy song. 😅
It isn't surprising that Ireland had a war game of this nature. People are reading far too much into this. The pre-WWII, US War Plan Red, which dealt with possible war with the British Empire, is far more interesting and more realistic in terms of possible conflict.
The u.s was unlikely to invade Canada because of the Great Depression. The U.S only recovered due to the war.
@@alcabone1126 What relevance is this?
Have you looked up the Canadian plan or invading the US? I think it was called Case Brown and was pretty damned good
Im sorry boss, I know this is the planing office but I wont be making any plans. You see in 50 years there is going to be this computer video thing and they arnt going to understand what we do in the planning office and theyre going to make fun of my plan. So im just going to sit here and drink my barrys tea. Is that ok with you general?
@@jimmyryan5880 Lolz
Thank you for this. Very interesting, I'm English and I lived in NI in 1990. I noticed the North was then in much better shape than the South with road conditions etc. Then 3 years ago I went back for a road trip and drove around both parts of Ireland. I noticed a big jump forward in living conditions in the south and didn't feel much different from the north. This must have made the border much less significant and surely gives people less reason to to want to fight each other. But Brexit!!! - I can't think of a much worse way to mess all this up than to have one part of Ireland in the EU and the other out. Let's hope things never go back to the way they were.
Ireland just needs to reunite, makes more sense now than ever
@Aviation@engineering8 yes it does
@Aviation@engineering8 wrong on both counts. The souths average wage now is about €850 p/w. And the census results in June will reveal why your wrong about the majority wanting to remain, with the proper plans in place it would be stupid not to unite and prosper.
@@ardri31 I don't get why England won't give it back its years upon years of persecution and bloodshed and we dont all of our country back?
Do not call us the south. We go further north than Northern Ireland.
This vid seems very interesting, haven't seen much coverage of the Republic of Ireland's actions during the times of The Troubles.
theres a reason for that. they sat down there and did next to nothing to help us up here.
I was curious about how Ireland responded to The Troubles
If you're into finding out about the Irish Defence Forces during the Troubles,I'd highly recommend the book 'Fighting against Subversion'.It's a great book on how the Irish army and how it stopped the IRA smuggling arms and men over the border into or out of the North and its fight against humility and high command rivalries.
Funny since the occupation ....ie the invaders were actually the British ....and Irelands actions would simply be an attempt to repel ....
The Dubliners - Take it down from the mast 🎵
ruclips.net/video/IiTrGDyGgOw/видео.html
I remember learning about this in school, and my teacher just called it the 'stupidest idea ever conceived', so from then on I never remembered its name, I just knew it as the 'stupid invasion'
It would have been hilariously easy for Óglaigh na hÉireann to take the border area given that Newry and Derry very much feel like they are on the wrong side of the border.
But they would have been decimated by the brits very soon after.
If you’re interested read the forgotten revolution it gives a lot of insight into what was going on behind the scenes.
@@stephendowney4076 how would've it been hilariously easy? You think the people that made this country would ever accept a terrorist occupation of its border. Without the security forces operations here, entire towns and villages would have been razed to the ground, ethic cleansing of which the UK and ROI has never seen. "hilariously easy"
@@zzDevotion the point I was making was that due to the demographics of Derry and Newry they are predominately Nationalist and would be more accepting and supportive of the Irish Army than they would have been of even the RUC, the USC and the British Army.
On that basis the local population would have been very supportive of the 'invasion'.
@@zzDevotion *ethic cleansing of which the UK and ROI has never seen*
Clearly you are ignorant of your history
This is crazy interesting! I love this unknown history.
Yes, we love your videos about Ireland. And yes, we would like to see some more.
Crazy that I just learned about this and then you post about it.
The reason this staff study was called 'Operation Armageddon' was to make it absolutely clear to even the dimmest Irish politician that it could only result in the destruction of the Irish state.
The officer corps of the Irish Defence Forces basically told the government of the day that, were orders to invade Northern Ireland issued, the vast majority of the officer corps would resign, leaving a skeleton command structure to maintain the internal security of the state.
We had an army of about 8,500 men, of which approximately 70% were medically unfit for duty.
We had so little logistic capability that the study baldly stated that it would be necessary to lease buses from CIE, the state transport company.
We had NO navy, and NO airforce, while the Royal Ulster Constabulary(RUC) had more actual armoured vehicles than the Irish army possessed.
The UK had, and has, NUCLEAR WEAPONS. Ireland does NOT.
The UK had, and has, a PERMANENT SEAT on the UN Security Council. Ireland does NOT.
The UK had, and has, a blue water navy. Ireland does NOT.
The UK had, and has, a large airforce. Ireland does NOT.
The UK was, and is, a member of NATO. So Article 5, and Ireland was going to declare war on NATO like it was going to fly to the moon by metabolising 20Kg of baked beans....
Quite simply, there was, and is, NO WAY that Ireland would ever invade Northern Ireland(NI).
National suicide is not something that the Irish are into....
Time is on side
It would probably be a very bad idea, the UK's of nuclear weapons being irrelevant not withstanding, largely because most people on the mainland don't care all that much about Northern Ireland it being invaded is probably a way to make them care.
That’s why it didn’t happen and we succeeded with gorilla war
That last line is proven false today. You are being replaced
@@outlawquelshingdixienothin8893
"You are being replaced"?
Complete and utter bollocks, written by a person whose ignorance about demography in general, and Irish demography in particular, is both wide and deep.
Back in reality, the Irish population, which shrank relentlessly between 1845and 1961, has been increasing steadily since the 1961 census.
The main driver in that steadily increasing population is the FACT that the Irish Total Fertility Rate(TFR) is among the highest in the developed world.
You should do a deep dive into the many figures and events around the peace process leading to the Good Friday agreement. Focusing on the politicians, priests and former militants who went about trying to end the troubles. Its something I don't think is talked about enough when talking about the troubles and the non-violent movements of the troubles I believe deserve a video of their own.
These brave people deserve credit and anonymity
yeah maybe do a deep dive on how machine gun marty was an MI5 agent.
Fr.John Reid,Garret Fitzgerald,Charles Haughey,John Hume,David Trimble,Albert Reynolds,John Major,Tony Blair,Bertie Ahern,Dick Spring and others are to thank for the Good Friday Agreement
@@liamcosgrave2937 Mo Mowlam
The CIA instigated the Peace Process. When the Canary Wharf bombing sent financial shockwaves as far as Wall Street, the CIA basically 'removed' everyone opposed to the idea of a truce. Terror leaders in prison. The Mull of Kintyre Chinook helicopter crash killing senior anti terror experts in the British security services. Followed up by Blair and Hain's secret deal with the IRA.
Look up "The Arms Crisis" the Irish government began training and importing arms for a a paramilitary that was friendly to the Republic (The IRA are not friendly to the Republic, they see/saw it as an illegitimate state), when it became apparent to the Irish government that people in the North would support the IRA over the Irish Government, they denied the plan existed and threw several people under the bus.
No it didnt. Thats all been long since revealed. The Official IRA used their sympathisers in the Irish media establishment to invent a scandal to blacken the eye of the provos & Fianna Fail controlled Irish government at the time. Both of which were their rivals & enemies at the time. A half assed highly isolated attempt by a handful of people to run some guns doesnt constitute Ireland supporting or supplying the provos. Its also quite disengenious to try making out Ireland supported the provos, cynically or otherwise, the Provos were at war with Ireland too. They didnt view the Dail as a legitimate gov. due to the insane convoluted nonsense ideology they go by called "Republican legiticism". Conversely multiply british enquiries have shown routine, widespread, sustained & heavy, training, funding, grooming, protection from prosecutions & intelligence sharing between the British state & British loyalist terrorists. It was so pervasive that it would not be unfair to describe the loyalism terrorism as almost entirely owned & operated as a disposable proxy of the British state. Your arguement is like worrying about worrying that victim 35 of a serial killer, scratched their attacker. Its a daft thing to focus on.
@@MJ-cv5ye yes, people don't understand it was a few rebel TDs who lost their positions and police got involved. It was not, nor was it ever government policy to arm the IRA or train them. The IRA was seen as a threat to the Irish state.
@@peterfox5897 yes. Exactly. The Provisional IRA(As its important to distinguish them from earlier iterations as well as the historical IRA of the civil war & independence era) were sworn enemies of the democratically elected government of Ireland. They always managed to have a couple of quislings infiltrate FF down the years, but having secret sympathisers or double agents isnt the same as active help. The british govs. aiding & directing the UVF & UDA as proxies, the UDA & UVF didnt have a relative hand full of agents installed in the british gov. dedicated to its overthrow. Also whats forgotten in that is the mere whiff of a connection to it was enough to topple haughey as the Provos were contrary to modern misremembering in Ireland & British misunderstandings deeply hated & feared by the majority of the people in Ireland. After all, while the northerners had to put up with being shot as "informers" any time a provo gang boss took a dislike to them or people randomly got blown up by them or they shot a child or robbed a beer truck, in the republic people had to deal with Loyalist bombs as "retaliation" for Provo actions as well as routine kidnappings of anyone with money or having bank tellers or shop keepers families held hostage while they forced people to rob their own businesses or banks or ripped ATMs out of walls or gunned down police while robbing cash trucks etc etc. The Provos conducted a reign of terror on the normal population in the republic. They were fascist authoritarians who took personal loyalty oaths to their unelected, secret military junta in Belfast which included promises to put the juntas whims before even the lives of spouses & children & brought great suffering & fear to the republic. Its utterly a rewrite of history for anyone to claim that the Irish gov. "helped them". The Irish gov. caught, prossicuted & issued life sentences to more Provos than the british state did & even once searched 30,000 homes looking for weapons & safehouses in 1 man hunt.
@@MJ-cv5ye Nice try, but the Irish legal system provided sanctuary for the IRA. Try that nonsense on the USA and they would invade you.
@@ulsterman2021 really? How so? Specifically how did the Irish legal system offer sanctuary to "the IRA"? You're quite obviously clueless as you cant even get the name right. "The IRA" ceased to exist after its defeat in the civil war & demobilization of the Ulster Brigade after it retreated into the Free State in the face of the pogrom & mass round ups in N.Ireland during 1922-23. The group being referred to here is the Provisional IRA, an entirely different organisation, active from 1970 onward. That organisation PIRA got no "sanctuary" from the Irish legal system you born fool. I literally grew up in a house we had to move from because our neighbour was an Irish judge who got appointed to the Special Criminal Court. The Garda(Irish cops) had to fortify the judges property with 6 foot walls, barbed wire & 2 continually manned guard towers. The Irish state had to do that because unlike the British legal system, the Irish legal system far from offering sanctuary, locked up Provos constantly. Its why the Shinners to this day despise the Irish Special Criminal Court. The British legal system preferred to simply just round up any old paddy when Limies got a bit cranky at the conflict following them home or torturing confessions out of all & sundry in N.Ireland & putting said torture confessions through the diplock court system for pre determined fascistic results. The neighbour who was a judge like all Irish judges on that court tasked with Provo prosecutions were much too effective at locking them up for the Provos liking & were fond of trying to petrol bombs or assasinate said judges. When was the last British judge you ever heard having to live like that or getting firebombed or assasinated? Oh yah, thats right, because the Provos didnt worry too much about them coz they didnt lock too many up. The British legal system was far more effective at recruiting Provos than it ever was at putting them away. Fond of sending innocent people in to become radicalized by unjust convictions. Jog on Gary, I'm sure theres an EDL or BNP rally for yah to go join. Uninformed & guided by your preconcieved racist stereotypes. Get a grip
As an Englishman who has lived and worked in the republic and visited Derry I found this vid very interesting and in formative, cheers
Had the Irish army invaded they would been met with the full fire and fury of the British army, at that time a truly formidable force. It would have been the equivalent of a mouse taking on Godzilla.
The Union Jack would of been flying above Dublin inside 48 hours.
Yeah just like the British Army in Ireland after 1916 🤣
@@SuperFunkmachine I am not as certain of that...
@@SuperFunkmachine ye , you are 100 % right ✅ ! But then the real war would start .
I think you dont understand the irish
Dude, I love your commentary on Irish history. It's always very balanced and well stated.
Holy shit I thought you were me for a second
@@Haggis_67 lolz
absolutely agree with you. I'm Irish and he did a great job delivering an obviously unbiased video about it.
This is great content. More on the Irish Governments stance on the Troubles would be great.
Once across the border, the Irish army would have twenty minutes; that's how long it would have taken the RAF to fly its jet fighters from Wales.
Acting like yous havent been told by the Yanks to behave in Regards to Ireland…. Yous wouldn’t Dare!!! 😂👍🏼🍀🇮🇪🇺🇸
@@Ohaodhatirfothuinn Trust me, the Yanks wouldn’t save you if you tried to. It would take about 20 minutes to deal with your tantrum. 😂 🇬🇧🏴
@@Ohaodhatirfothuinn needing to rely on imaginary help from the us isn’t a brag. Why doesn’t Ireland care enough about its sovereignty to properly invest in a good army, and a navy and Air Force that actually exists?
The fact that the Irish military even speculated on the idea of a first strike against a NATO allied country at the height of the Cold War really shows there were clearly some officers at the time that didn’t have their heads fully screwed on.
You had to be there to understand. Under the Irish Consitution it was Irish territory and hundreds if people were being burned out of their homes is pogroms against Catholics.
It was more of a political decision made by Lemas rather than a military officer.
I don't know your nationality, but if your fellow countrymen and women were being butchered by paramilitary forces of a foreign country would you expect your own military to defend them or would it be a case of Pontius Pilate.
Well researched and impartial.
Thanks for the video
Bro the Irish army would get destroyed
The Boys of Kilmichael say different
And that’s why it didn’t happen.
get destroyed ya clown they forced the Brits to the north learn your history!
@@ScotsmanGamer you mad? haha. I thought you Irish didn't care about your military. Y you so butthurt about the fact that your country would have been destroyed if you had invaded the UK?
@@ScotsmanGamer Yeah LOL, the Brits decided they had better things to do. They would still be running Ireland if they wanted.
YES! Finally somebody covers this, and thankfully it's our boi Hilbert
Really great video !!!!
Thanks for so much Irish content Hilbert
I don't know why I expected to actually explain the plan to invade northern Ireland instead of basically saying "it was a bad idea so they did nothing at the end"
he did tho
You should do a video on the ancient history of Ireland. From its breakaway from Europe, to the first signs of life on it, to the Roman era. Etc.
Fantastic channel keep up the good work ☺️👍
very good found it very informative keep it up
Really good video and kudos for your Irish pronunciation :)
I looked up this video and others after seeing your recent videos on the subject 👍🏾
So Max thinks its great that ROI planned to invade Ulster.
@@asanulsterman1025 The 6 occupied counties aren't Ulster... and no, the RoI was never planning to 'invade' the 6
@@saoirsedeltufo7436 Your waffle and bullshit opinions are duly noted. Tufo says no.
It was all a cunning ruse to distract people from the real masterplan: an amphibious assault on the Isle of Wight in order to occupy the Minghella's ice cream factory.
According to Martin Dillon's book 'The Dirty War'; The British may well have been aware of the Irish plan because he suggests that just prior to deploying thousands of troops to the province they actually paused for 48 hours to allow time for the Irish intervention. If it had happened it is unlikely the British would have responded in force because of the bloodshed that would have occurred, instead being forced to hand the whole issue conveniently over to the UN.
UN would have been more impartial
Lol of course they would respond ,for a start the Irish army have never been capable of such a feat anyway
Studies in the 70s showed that the Irish army would at most make it as far as portadown before being stopped by the ruc alone never mind the uda etc
Besides the west woild never have let it go without action, remember that the UK is a nato member
Years of underinvestment
Martin Dillon wrote fiction.
Entertaining nonetheless.
@@oscarosullivan4513 the UN would have been more impartial ?
You would have had Filipino, Lebanese and Korean troops on the streets . How would they have responded to becoming targets themselves? Because sooner or later both sides would have turned on them .
My dad was a soldier in northern on tour in the early 90s. He told me British and Irish soldiers would meet at the border and trade British rations for Irish homemade sandwiches
Those sandwiches were made with love and saliva!
@@feidhlimidhmacanaltha3644 🤣 probably
It’s so funny cause everyone from other countries assume were mortal enemies but actually we just have a bad history together and many rivalries in sport
A very good video would be on the serious consideration to creating a Genevan Colony in Ireland. In case you think you've read that wrong -> A group of people from Geneva (yes, that Geneva) wanted to set up a colony in the south of Ireland. The only book on it is called Terrorists, Anarchists, and Republicans: The Genevans and the Irish in Time of Revolution by Whatmore, Richard
So republican= terrorist in your mind then
@@aidybing690 now , he /she didnt say that , its the title of a book , and not written by c gillespie themselves
@@aidybing690 I didn’t notice this at the time. Kinda wished I had of done, you need to read things better, that kinda reactionary nonsense is what makes the internet a horrible place for discussion.
A nice touch to use the irish language translations 👌
I think the same RTÉ documentary popped up in both our feeds lately hilbert. Interesting subject matter.
Hello Hilbert. I was just a toddler in 1969, but I do remember BBC Nationwide or Panorama reporting along the same lines as this in the 1970s, hinting the change in the IRA, you have previously discussed, was inspired from the south, from support like you mentioned in this video. I keep seeing 1970s films on RUclips and I hope someone in comments will know better where to find video from back then.
This one? ruclips.net/video/wcS2LBx3nZ4/видео.html
@@havinganap Thank you - very interesting. The one I saw was, I believe, trying to show that officials in Eire had given support like Hilbert spoke of, but I was just a kid.
Look up "The Arms Trial" of 1970, where a couple of rogue ministers were accused of smuggling arms to the IRA. They were acquitted, but fired.
@@silversolver7809 Thank you. I did find a documentary about this earlier this evening, showing how an Irish Labour MP had tried to find out at the time and the trial that took place, that was shown on RUclips as "Ireland's Shame". I will have a look for your suggestion too.
@@alansmithee8831 "I will have a look for your suggestion too"
You'll find loads of news articles, don't know about videos unless you can access the RTE archive. It was a huge scandal in Ireland at the time, with gangster Haughey one of the men accused.
Any suggestions for videos about the history of this conflict and the relationship between Ireland and Britain? I'm fascinated by this topic, but fuzzy on what and how it happened.
10:32 ... and in the 21st century this "ongoing" conflict is still an issue .... and one may argue if negotiating it or fighting it out is actually more damaging or exhausting
Great vid I lived through it and it's still going on today
excellent video
Awesome video
How to start a war in the comments
I remember a certain General Glatieiri of Argentina thought it’d be a good idea to attack a British possession. How well did that end up for him then?
Did the majority of the island of Ireland want independence? NI was artificially created to make a minority the majority of the then newly carved out state. How well has that been working out for NI and Britain? Soon they won't even be the majority of NI. Britain left the rest of Ireland because of Vietnam like warfare in all of Ireland along with pressure from the USA where many have Irish relatives. Ireland now remains in the EU giving political clout.
Britain will never have peace there in the long term. NI is costing Britain an absolute fortune to maintain and NI is economically going backwards while the rest of Ireland is prospering. Have fun with NI. It's going to economically hold the UK back and be a constant source of trouble.
If you think a minor battle for the almost empty Falkland Islands accounts for British might these days then your glory days are definitely far behind you. By the way. It's spelled possession.
@@seanflynncontact
You say many in America have Irish relatives.
Yes, but not as many as their are in the rest of Britain, and vice versa.
🇦🇷🤜🏻🇬🇧
@@seanflynncontact the falklands is thoudands of kilometres from the uk and was invaded by a much larger country. Ireland in comparison is extremely close, with(definitely at the time) pro uk population. The war wouldn't have worked for the ROI.
Even if NI joined the ROI it would still be majority non catholic, non celtic. There are also many anti roi groups stillm
@@seanflynncontact totally agree Sean, we all know the history. NI should be part of the Republic.
Yes I absolutely found this interesting. I really enjoy learning about Irish history. I really like how the Irish are not scared of a fight ever
We may be several centuries disconnected from them, but some celtic things never really left us.
i'll fight ye for a fiver...
That’s bullshit the IRA were cowards.
of course we are scared we aren't stupid. You cannot take these things flippantly. These are men's lives ..civilian lives.
@@davedoesplumbing bit work shy too ...too busy having political arguments online for both left and the right tbh they both need some fresh air
Ive meet a few officers and non commissioned who where part of the FCA at the time what is now known as the reserve defence force. They had been called in and stationed in community halls just short of the Border. Over my side the plans where to attack the customs and police barracks in newry. Of course they were stood down but many where offered the chance to transfer from volunteers to the main defence force but they wouldn't be allowed to carry over rank so many turned it down.
Many did take it up and served for a long time known as “Full Time FCA”
Much of the Irish Army in 1969 was on UN Blue Helmet Duty and wasn't even in Ireland, Thank God it never happened.
That's not the case. There was a small contingent in Cyprus & possibly a few staff personnel attached to other missions.
Ireland has an army?
They would have had Congo veterans
@@oscarosullivan4513 In 1969, there would have been ww2 veterans about 90,000. ww1 veterans, and various former british army group veterans in Ireland like the connaught rangers who were one of the most feared parts of the British army. Although the actual size of the Irish army might have been small, the force that could have been called upon, would have probably been 150,000. Ireland forgets that up until the day Ireland got its freedom it was a huge part of the British army and we had some amazingly brave soldiers available. We had a unit that was the basis of "Storm troppers", we had units known to take on modern armies with knives and win. We had soliders that helped set up the special forces of America and the UK. On top of all that, we had IRA members, who would have helped a lot. The only thing the Irish govt would have to do would be convince another country like France to send enough weapons. Ireland didn't really want to invade, they just wanted the UK to take it seriously. They knew the UK was aware that Ireland at that point had never been as dangerous before. UK didnt have the stomach to hold Dublin, would they have had the stomach to go up against so many former british soldiers that they knew would fight them when every bullet was gone, with knives and fists, that they had seen and used these men to destroy french/spanish/german/russia/turk/Indian positions, now to be used against them? The UK wouldnt have taken the chance. As they knew if the Irish did actually get their act together, Scotland could flip a coin and join them if they thought they could take England together. Lets put it this way, England wouldn't have held off the troops in Ireland and Scotland if they got proper serious. The British army had used them as relentless dogs of war for too long. They were visious, and the English army lacked it without them.
@@geroutathat Thanks for that nugget of wisdom
I served in the Marine Corps with a lad from Dublin who had served in the Irish Rangers, and he would talk about patrolling the border to try and intercept RA cats from hopping over. He mentioned this plan a couple times as an example of "just a stupid feckin' plan". I have to agree.
🧢
Obviously lying
@@yourtrappedinmygenjutsu He actually emigrated back to Ireland, if you got the sack to confront a former Reconnaissance Marine, and Ranger.
Wait a minute, the RA trained cats to conduct espionage in the north? The boys were right🐱👀👀
@@yourtrappedinmygenjutsu he ain’t lying. Ever hear of the name Kevin Owens?
Great post
Small but important correction here. There's no was about the British empire. It's still the British empire today. Just look at all the islands they still occupy in addition to the illegal imperial occupation of the northern counties of Ireland. Unfortunately the British empire still exists at this exact second. One island one Ireland 🇮🇪
Great pronunciation of Taoiseach! It’s not often people get it right
Tee-shock 😄
or should that be tea? 🍵
Usually not that interested in modern politics or conflicts but this really captured my attention. Very informative and interesting, thank you.
I'd love to hear from someone who was in the room during the war-gaming for this. It must have been an incredibly surreal experience.
great video
My friend was in the reserves at the time and he was bricking it because they'd have probably had to use all their reserves. He and his friends only joined because they thought it'd be a step up from the Scouts hah.
The Irish Army did not want to go to war, they did not have any illusions of grandeur, it was more about the principle of not standing by and watching a defenceless neighbour being attacked.
In the end, it was the Old IRA rifles that got taken out of the attics for this purpose, the Provos took over and saw an opportunity to go further than simply patrolling their own neighbourhoods, and the rest is history. I am glad that the Irish Army did not go for this plan because it could have led to even worse violence and more tough times for the whole country.
lol, a step up from the scouts ,
Not much of a step up to be fair.
If I recall correctly. One aspect that you left out, was that part of the plan was that there would be a staged attack upon an ambulance from one of those border field hospitals. This would have incited the Irish army to seize Derry and Newry and other nationalist majority areas near the border, provoked by anger at the attack. My understanding was that the Republic knew they couldn't win militarily, but to use this flare up in the conflict to get the likes of the UN involved as soon as possible, and to reopen the issue of partition and the border. The plan reminds me of that scene in Dazed and Confused, where the one nerdy guy starts a fight, because he anticipates that people will intervene and break up the fight before he got hurt.
Sounds like a plan for an attack on a German radio station from Poland in August 1939...
Frankly the UN security council is useless
Imagine them turning up into the nationlist communities with crates of guns and ammo
@@oscarosullivan4513 Think it was more that they'd force both sides to the table for a diplomatic solution, and thus reopen the border question.....(I'm not saying it was a good plan, just saying that it was a factor in the plan lol)
The UN aside from Korea has been a mostly non event on interventions, NATO has done most of the heavy lifting. Could you imagine a single voice in New York listened to in a matter of conflict by London after its effectively been invaded by a foreign force.
Very interesting videos
The Irish government heavily disliked the IRA as the IRA refused to recognise the Irish government and was effectively trying to take over Northern Ireland then move south to take the Republic
Can you do a video on the seige of jadotville a irish UN mission
The movie is on either u tube o netflix called the siege of Jadotville.
Great video. Looking forward to the video on Portugal's plans to invade Spain in 1993 and the Luxembourg plan to rout Germany in 1997.
In the 1970s, a Portuguese retired Army officer ran for office on a platform of taking back Olivença/Olivenza from Spain, he got around 3% of the vote iirc.
Nutcases
I’ve not seen anything ever about either of these cases, link?
@@LultasticFilms It's a joke, he's referring to smaller neighbouring countries attempting to invade bigger ones.
Woah! Remember that time when there used to be a channel called feature history one time before in the past?? 😏
Ireland weren't and indeed have never been in NATO. And so they could not have been ejected. One would also argue, that the United States would never have permitted NATO action against Ireland, with the high level representation of sympathetic Irish Americans in the Nixon administration.
A very interesting video, thank you! This would have been a very grim situation for all involved had it happened. Always worth remembering that despite being officially neutral in WW2, the Irish were very good neighbours to the UK (and the resident allies) during that period. That in itself has some good stories.
Thank goodness for the Good Friday Agreement to bring some sanity to the situation; as a teenager in England when it was being negotiated I didn't really understand how it worked and why it was such a big deal, but having read it since it's the basis of one of the most powerful and useful bits of legislation that either of our countries has ever enacted. It just seems so obvious when you read it now.
Hmm, some Irish did volunteer to fight on Britain's side during the War and were often treated as traitors when they returned. Plus De Valera's offer condolences to the German Ambassador upon Hitler's Death was not a great look.
So you've not heard of the Irish that weren't 'good' neighbours for the UK during WW2 then..?
Love the idea of getting bus éireann in on the army transport.
A rumbling on the horizon heading to Derry...
* beep * Stand Clear! Luggage Doors Operating!
They'd even be late for the invasion ffs..
invasion is off the 46A never showed up
blakey off, on the buses could have maintained order
A very interesting documentary. Totally unaware of operation Armageddon.
Could you do a video on the Flagstaff Hill incident and the backlash between Ireland and the UK?
I read some where that it was to be set piece battle, a few shots fired with British forces retreating to pre agreed positions. It was an impractical face saving plan to shed some troublesome border regions.
Highly unlikely. The irish knew that the RAF would bomb them off the face of the planet so they didn't dare cross the border.
@@dredd1981 I think you misunderstand. In a real engagement, we would have faced not only the RAF but all of NATO! That would as you say have led to obliteration in short order - unless the Soviets got involved. No, this was supposed to have been explored by both governments as an obscure way of reassigning some republican districts along the border to the south, effectively increasing the unionist majority in what remained of the north.
@@gerardhayden6568 Personally I'd have been in favor of that. Today, if you kidnapped someone from any country in the world, blindfolded them then dropped them off in the middle of Belfast and asked them what country they were in, they would scratch their head and shrug their shoulders. NI has effectively been stripped of virtually everything that identifies it as being British. Heck, the union flag can only fly for a handful of days a year, the rest of the time the flagpoles stand empty. "parity of esteem" is the old excuse that is wheeled out, yet everyone knows that in the unlikely event of a united ireland, the idea of "parity of esteem" would go out the window and if any unionists complained about the tricolours that would be everywhere, they'd be told where to go. Personally, I might have had some sympathy for a united ireland had sinn fein/ira not murdered two members of my family. And a lot of unionists feel the same. Had they not bombed and murdered their way around the 6 counties, there might actually be a UI by now. But as it stands only 30% support a UI. So it ain't happening.
As obvious as it is that an intervention would have been crazy, and as obvious as it was to everyone at the time, the British couldn't be sure Ireland wouldn't intervene. That ambiguity likely gave the Irish government some leverage it wouldn't have had if it had been clear it wouldn't cross the border.
Exactly. If there's one thing the British government couldn't guess is how Ireland would act. After all that's what happens when you keep your boot on someone neck for 800 years
Would love a video on Ulster Plantation and how that affected Northern Irish Politics through to the modern day. 🇮🇪🏴🇬🇧
Hi, I am French ( but 80% Irish dna according to dna tests) Your way of explaining this is very interesting.. I wish you would do some more docs. Thanks a lot!
Haplogroup R1B1A2 m269 👍
Can you do a video on the UVF
The Irish should teach Eminem a thing or two on how to make a proper diss track
Very interesting. I'd heard of the plan to "invade" before but its nice to have a few more details.
Very interesting and actually quite accurate. Well done.
Honestly feel the troubles wouldve went smoother and more just in whos to blame if the british and irish army did a coalition peacekeeping force presence.
As a proud Irish man living in Belfast, this was brilliant coverage of what more less happened. Bloody Sunday caused the Irish to deploy at the boarders. Thanks brother.
I wish u restore northern Ireland the island is urs fight brother
@@rickyyacine4818 best of luck
@@DTL0VER British started it since 1100 ad
@@rickyyacine4818 Normans, not British at that time. British wouldnt be an appropriate term to use up until the early 1700's
@@ApeX-pj4mq Sassanachs ...
hilberrrrtttttttttttt, around the 1 and a half minute mark there is background music. And the one thing I know it from is not very family friendly, soooo where did you get this music from? :p
Without provocation? I notice you omitted "Bloody Sunday" from your diatribe! Because that was one hell of a provocation!
Bloody Sunday happened years later and wasn't an attack on the Republic.
Unless the ROI deployed crystal balls, Bloody Sunday wasn't a provocation for this, as that was on the 30th January 1972, whereas Exercise Armageddon took place in 1970.
so would Kingsmill, the Birmingham Pub bombings, Omagh etc be enough provocation for the British Army to invade the ROI?
@@britard8499 lol except all those atrocities come down to one common denominator: British interference in the island of Ireland
It is a good job for the Republic of Ireland that they didn't go down that road. The British Army would have made short work of them. The IRA were subsequently far more successful, but even they couldn't defeat the British Army. The real tragedy was the 30+ years of the Troubles achieved very little, except for death, destruction and bitterness. The Good Friday agreement is the best thing that has happened to Northern Ireland. I hope current tensions can be resolved. A return to violence would be 360° bad news.
My grandad was in the Irish Army in the 60s so if this invasion would have happened, I might never have been born. Oh he was also at Jadotville too, if you don't know what that is then I'd say definitely go look it up. Iys wild
The Siege of Jadotville was an amazing film. What is your opinion on it?
@@frankfinnsweenryan I absolutly love it. I remebered watching it with my dad and it made him cry with pride for my grandad
What battalion did your grandad serve with in the Congo as my dad served there himself .
Nice one ,did u have any family who fought in the war ?
How can you invade your own country?
It’s not and wasn’t. During Irish secession, Northern Ireland democratically voted to remain part of the UK.
@@TommyBahama84 nothing democratic about the Gerrymandered statelet. Ulster signed the Ulster covenant but even then Ulster was severed in two.
If you partition a country anyone can be a majority.
Ireland as a whole voted to leave the UK and then under the threat of Loyalist violence 6 of the 9 counties of Ulster were retained by the UK.
These 6 remaining counties will democratically choose to join the rest of Ireland within the next 20 years.
@@TommyBahama84 'democratically' haha. Pick up a book
There were a lot of problems with this plan. 😃 😄 😁 😆 😅 😂 🤣
Lynch’s lot were terrified of the popularity of SF and set about to undermine the socialist wing of the party in an effort to solidify their own power in the south. As a result there was a struggle and then total split with the official IRA becoming today’s workers party and the provisional IRA a much more right wing faction took over SF. It weakened the cause and was a major reason why the IRA during the troubles often targeted Protestant civilians as the officials maintained the fight was with England not with people who happened to be of a different religion, if you look into history you can see there were Catholics and Protestants on both sides it was really the troubles that solidified the religious aspect of the conflict. Yes it wasn’t an invention of the troubles but look back there were Protestants fighting for Irish freedom just like some Catholics fought for the crown. Sectarianism really found it’s footing with the troubles, ( a concept which personally I find pathetic but sure).
You are good youtuber Hilbert don't start you're car tomorrow.
Uh oh
There's a good RTÉ radio feature on the whole illegal weapons financing during that affair
I didn't know the Republic of Ireland even _considered_ getting involved in Northern Ireland! Thanks for the information!
It didnt
They did, a couple of members of the Irish government were using Irish tax payers money to supply the IRA with guns and bombs to be used against the UK.
They were slightly but it was mostly managing the border against the IRA ( contrary to popular belief the Irish government disliked the IRA as they refused to recognise the Irish government as legitimate)
I can smell the English Breakfast when I watch this video. Jokes aside great job with this video, you were about as unbiased as anyone with a connection to one of these countries can be when it comes to discussing this topic.
Speaking about Catholics, could you do "What did the Holy See/Vatican do in WW2"?
help a Nazi scientist become a cyborg obviously
So that's why Catholics were denied the vote.
The pope from the last did it not Bloody Sunday
Look up Hugh O'Flaherty (The scarlet and the black). He hid 7k Jews, US and British servicemen in the Vatican and around Rome.
@@icemanire5467 Thanks, though I didn't mean individual/local Catholics, but rather the Curia itself. Individuals differed widely; you can bring up O'Flaherty while I can mention Pavelić.
@@reintaler6355 ya check out the book “church of spies “ …..
While we hoped for unity one day, most of us were not going to risk losing everything in such a war. We were beginning to modernise our economy in 1960s.
I love the "needed 12000 soldiers but only had 2000"
The British were on the loyalist side
had them do their dirty work
The Irish were on the side of the IRA…
@@ScotsmanGamer Liam Pish Stain
Strange comment Julian Shepherd. Who/What do you the think Loyalists are Loyal too?
The whole point of the ROI's appeal for UN involvement was that effectively by definition. The British Army could not be impartial.
One other point I think missed or not mentioned in the Video was that had Ireland invaded NI, it was attacking a NATO member state so was in effect attacking all of NATO I think.
@@lagancider6153 Well the British state obviously crack down on Irish republicans more than Loyalists, there is today 12,500 Loyalist paramilitaries with not attempts to stop them, while only 300-400 Irish republicans and tons of police forces directed to deal with them.
You missed the Irish civil War from 1922 onwards the vote to except the treaty of 22 only passed by 7 votes
Anyone know the name of the documentary Hilbert quoted that he got the inspiration for making this video?
It is on YT under the programme name 'If Lynch had invaded' and the uploader is 'Brendan Shortall'.
Interestingly enough, the US garrisoned an army during WW2 to potentionally invade the South.
Yes, David Gray, the US Ambassador to Ireland was against Irish neutrality and did everything in his power to involve Ireland in WW2, including threatening invasion. He infamously had an education at the hands of Col. Michéal Tuohy of the Irish Defence Forces who had fought the brits during the War of Independance. Gray explained to Tuohy (a Brigade Commander in the Defence Forces) how well equipped the yanks were and how numerous they were and how the Irish couldn't possibly prevent a successful invasion. Tuohy asked what would happen if his men shot at the yanks and was told the Irish would be massacred. Tuohy asked the same question again - same answer, again - Mr US Ambassador got thick and asked what was the matter with Tuohy couldn't he understand English?. Tuohy asked if yank soldiers were bullet proof - No, of course not. Tuohy explained quietly that he had fought the brits twenty something years before and he and his soldiers were ready to fight and die for Ireland - how many dead yanks was Ireland worth to the Amnassador?
I grew up at this time- and remember this being discussed- The plan was to take over Derry and Armagh (Catholic areas) and then seek UN troops-The Irish governement knew they had no chances militarily- but felt that something had to be done to help the Catholic population
The Irish in America and Britain would have forced the British Government to find a Political solution.
I was well aware of these plans at the time.
Ernest do you think it was a betrayel by the ROI government of the Irish in the north?
@@andrewdavy9921 To me no reason being the situation would be FUBAR
The un wouldn't have interfered, the UK is nato
The British regiment the green jackets or green cloaks was welcomed by all sides in Derry. But for some reason someone decided to get rid of them. Instead the paratroop outfit that carried out the ballymurphy massacre, were sent to Derry. A few weeks later bloody Sunday.
Why was the regiment that had some control removed.
I wouldn’t know maybe they (the higher ups) felt the green jackets were too soft
@@oscarosullivan4513 apparently that was close to the truth. The paras were sent in to 'crack a tough nut'. Didn't work out too well.
@@matthew1882 They made things worse
@@oscarosullivan4513 absolutely. I mean they are paratroops. You drop them out of a plane to capture bridges and shit not police a civilian population.
I wonder how the troubles would have played out if instead of the british army the UN had sent peace keepers It could have worked out better in the long run
brits wouldn't allow that. It wasn't very good PR old boy to have blue helmets on the streets of 'british' cities and towns, don't you know?
id just like to say this is the first time ive been on television