My company Just hired a kid with no experience. The first thing I said to him was "If you are interested in machining, check out Titan's Academy. He since has bought a set of Calipers and a 0 to 1 mic. He's been really excited to learn. Thank you for putting such resources out there. I was I had them when I was learning the trade.
Hi Titan, we all failed doing it the old way,. Maybe doing it another way is what we need to succeed. Manufacturing is like a world wonder and making something is what our creator intended us to do. Man is made in His image, to create.
No one likes to talk about money but i'm 100% sure that's what people get excited, knowing how much you make if you do this and that sure makes me excited hope this covers your next vlog. Thanks!
I completely agree with your sentiments Titan. I went to a technical program for CNC machining yet it did not prepare me for what I would face on the shop floor. I did have good mentors that helped me when I started working though. Also seeing what other people on Instagram and RUclips are out there doing really helped me to learn and expand my knowledge. I recently found a great position and I'm learning more than ever. However I do see first hand that there is resistance towards young SKILLED machinist stepping into the shop. I think both companies and experienced machinist don't want too many new people because their afraid of having to pay more on one side, but also dealing with more competition on the other. Not to ignore that in time the average salary would decrease because of a larger pool of capable machinists/programmers. Also automation has become a such a huge threat. Companies want the most efficient workers with the lowest possible pay. Automation does that for them. Yet I see the importance of letting people know about this great trade. My heart sinks Everytime I say wat I do and no one has a clue what it is or how integral it is to their way of life.
You’re one of a kind titan! Love everything you’ve got to say and are an inspiration in this industry. Been in this industry for only 5 years starting on the floor to one of the top cad/cam programmers in my shop. This channel has helped me so much it’s unreal!
Thank for putting these skills out there. It helped me learn to be better and work faster. And then everyone wins. Thats whats so awesome about this. Not just the cream of the crop. EVERYONE. BOOM!!!!!
Im 16 and im studing CNC, mastercam, and more, in Spain and i like it, I would like to work in the furture like you are working now, your are amazing 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
Amen to this folks. It's time to get real. This is the future of Machining and people trying hold people back from valuable and free training are foolish. There is no sense in wanting a lesser trained workforce.
I agree completely. Too many people nowdays only take a short term view. What you have said is applicable all over the world. Steel is a commodity. It is available all over the world. So are cnc machines. I need a doctor once every few months. I need a farmer 3 times a day. But I need a cnc machinist every hour of the day!!!
Students need to gain a strong understanding of tools as well, I can't tell you how many guys have come into my shop calling themselves machinists who can't explain what makes a tool cut or why he is struggling to hold a tolerance while using the wrong tool. They can flip an insert but couldn't begin to tell you why it cuts. It's great to learn programing but if you can't trouble shoot your work you are just a fancy button pusher. I support what you are doing, many people will take advantage of this training and a small percentage will discover a passion as we have, rise above and make a difference. Nice job Ive been watching for a long time.
I think between you and john saunders there is a good basis of curriculum that is truly helping lots of kids (me being one of them) get into CNC, as well as the large amount of other manufacturing professionals that provide more educational content that is more general to machining (robrenz, edge precision, and stefan gotteswinter to name a few). I think that the formal style of education absolutely fails to teach knowledge like this and it must be taught through doing, this is exactly what you are trying to fix and i am grateful for that. I do however have a critique: Your content focuses on making parts in industrial machines that very few can access. I believe that you should have content that focuses on types of parts that a FRC robotics team would make (milled aluminium extrusions) on machines that robotics teams have (gantery style cnc routers like the velox 50x50) because it would be easier for students to get access to your content and still teach the fundamentals (feeds and speeds, cam, and work-holding).
I don't agree with everything you do but I damn well appreciate what your trying to do. I agree with what you've said here 100%!! On a side note, can we as an industry stop using RPM and IPM when we talk about tooling? It drives me nuts! Those are resultant numbers that the machine may or may not need and are irrelevant when considering feeds and speeds for tooling. Surface feet per minute, its metric equivalent and feed per tooth or revolution is all that matters. When I here someone talk about running a tool at such and such an RPM and bla bla IPM I lose interest. I'm not about to get out my calculator to reverse engineer what's really happening.
Surface speed matters! Ever tried cutting inconel 718 with carbide at 250 SFM? How about 30? Doesn't matter if your CPT is perfect. It's a matter of cutting dynamics and if you're not in the sweet spot for these tricky materials you blow up tools. Period.
@@highvoltagefeathers lets assume a 1/2 × 1/2 × 1.1/4 × 3 - 6 flute premium quality end mill. If I was pocketing 1.1/4 deep in 718 I would do so by helical boring to full depth then pocket out at a starting point of 5% stepover, 225 SFPM (surface feet per minute) at 0.002 to 0.0035 FPT (feed per tooth). If I changed to a 4 flute end mill I would do the exact same thing though the 4 flute has less core strength. If I changed to a 5/8 end mill I would again do the same thing taking into account the extra rigidity, so stepover may increase somewhat and feed would get a higher starting value. At no point in my thought process does RPM or IPM come into play until after the initial parameters are determined. I will for example use RPM and FPR (feed per revolution) DOC and stepover to get my IPM and MRR to compare that 1/2" and 5/8" because biggar isn't always better but at no point are those values useful for establishing cutting parameter guidelines. Ps, I'd lose my sh$t or laugh uncontrollably if a caught one of my guys cutting almost any alloy at 30 SFPM with good quality coated carbide.
Ive seem countless university grads going absolutely no where...You can be so productive with a cnc education you can become your own business. The skys the limit... You just have no idea the opportunities that available with this knowledge!
From Ireland; I wasn’t first introduced into CNC machining until I was 16, I never heard about it until I worked over the summer for work experience; I started as an operator and wanted to be the guy that everyone turned to to ask for help, when I pursued it, I found an amazing teacher who took his own time to train me, if it wasn’t for his methods and my enthusiasm, I wouldn’t be here today if it wasn’t for him. I’m only 22 and now I’m in charge of a machine shop in a small sub-manufacturing company, but it never would have happened without the devotion my teacher gave me, we need more people like that !
First of all, less irrelevant education. While underwater basket weaving may be fairly interesting, it is not necessary. Now, they should have decent communication both written and verbal. Then, give tggem a perfunctory metallurgy, and maybe some simple stuff. You are right because there seems to be a lack of attention span. Good job.
The reason for "Skills Gap" could be because the school education was not good and deep enough. But the employer could give the employee some time to improve his missing "skills". If you work hard 12-15 hours a day to correct your mistakes, you will be perfect in a month.
What people don’t know is, I am a machinist just trying to make a difference... I laugh at my own mistakes but strive to get better... I have entitles my own bank accounts and struggle... but all in an effort to bring awareness and get kids excited about our trade... Thanks for being a critic and keeping me accountable:-)
@@TITANSofCNC I have big respect for what you stand for. You're a machinist that's trying to employ people and manufacture in the US. You're trying to do things that other machinists aren't. We need to bring manufacturing back to the US. The way the US is going, which is a deeper convo, is disgusting. People feel like they should be ashamed to want to have their product made in the USA, to buy a product made in the USA, to come out and say that they want things made in the USA. They are too concerned with, "we can't have stuff made in the USA, that's not fair. China is a developing nation you shouldn't be able to make products elsewhere. You can't say Chinese products are shit." The Chinese have a strong sense of nationalism and varen't ashamed about it, and they're laughing at us for being so stupid. That's why their country is developing at a crazy fast rate. _They_ (I think we all know who _they_ are.) are trying to strip themselves and other Americans of any pride in their country. If you want to get a feel for the absolute garbage Americans are buying from China, look at the products on the wish dot com. It's insane. Keep doing the great things you're doing.
+TITANS of CNC: Academy … AND the trade IS going down, people don't see the bigger picture and profile and it may take about 20 years of consistent effort to reverse that trend or turn this "battleship" around. What gives me hope is that there are things that CAN be done better in the USA than overseas/China (I feel like we should focus on that first). The fact that Foxconn chose to build one of their biggest plants ever in Wisconsin is encouraging and there will be TONS and TONS and TONS of automation, so they are going to need a LOT of people that are super -"jiggy" with automation and robotics. [Cool that you/ we do this ourselves rather than waiting for politicians to pull their finger out 'cuz if we do that things really are going to go down the tubes. LEAD BY EXAMPLE is always the best way. ].
I have been making CNC micromachined parts with no formal training for seven years. I'm going to try your program. When I'm done, I'm going to look to you on how to write tool posts. After that, maybe you will have a program for making better CNC software. The software I'm using now is good, but they need better stock recognition, they need to stop rearranging my work space, and they need to better explain the algorithms that they developed. Thank you!
I work as a cnc teacher here in Sweden and we have the same problem, kids these days just want to be a "youtuber" socialmedia expert and shit like that. When we are out at schools talking about the craftmanship and show them stuff that they make, the first question i always get is "Is it a dirty job?" The industry is screwed :-(
Tech moves along way fast these days, i would have loved the access you are giving Tyson, all i got was a book and told its all in there, in the UK, programming tutors want £300+ a day to train, but kids have to accept, you need to learn how to grind a drill first, not jus practically, but because you humble yourself to the art that is engineering, i find in the UK at least its very snobby, i started a HNC evening class, and after the guys found out i was shop floor they no longer talked to me, i dropped it eventually, but when you have time to develop your own stuff, free from the BS of snobbery, you can truly innovate, and create, and that is something you cant teach, it has to be nurtured and encouraged, it will be that spirit that will keep nations strong, tech dont make you great, but it helps to envisage your creativity, its those guys i think will hear your call, take it easy dude
The problem is much greater then simply saying CNC education isn't good enough is only part of the problem. K-12 is often not producing kids who are truly prepared for college. Many high schools have switched to a 10 point grading scale to make it easier to pass. Additionally, they instituted a grading policy (even if not publicly broadcast) where a student receives a 50 on all assignments, even if not turned in. This way if they do any work at all and pass the end of year testing they pass the class. This will not help them in college or the real world. Another problem (which you are trying to address), is we simply do not attract kids (and often adults) into manufacturing. Manufacturing is seen as dirty, outdated, and dying. As I just said, you are trying to help with this and I teach in the trades. We are aggressively reaching out to the high school and middle school students to carry the message to them. We also setup booths at car shows, unemployment office, temp agencies, church groups, scouts, city county meetings, and any other public platform we can find to spread the word. But it is worth noting that many times small shops (and not so small) do not have the time or simply won't find the time to help us attend these events or even bother to show up at the college for a meeting where we are asking for their time to help plan the curriculum and make sure we are teaching the students what they need to know. On top of all this, the trade has grown to the point that we simply are unable to cover everything in two years. Students show up at 18-years-old who have never seen a wrench. and in two years they are expected to have tackled, digested, and mastered 5 axis mills, 3 axis lathes, etc. Plus everything else to get to that point. And you have to consider we graduate students with roughly 64 credit hours. And a shockingly large portion of that is English, math, humanities, etc. Go to Germany, large portions of the non-trade classes are simply not in the curriculum, making more room for directly relevant classes. We need a third year for advanced manufacturing. This doesn't even tackle the 800lb gorilla. The US lacks an industrial policy. The federal government caters to Wall St. (and its much worse than this), but these big companies were the first to offshore production. If they do stay in America they demand concessions in the form of tax breaks, direct payouts, and worker training paid for by the state and local government (read that as tax money handed out to cover large corporations' bills) . But the small shops pay 100% of the tax burden. And if you manage to land any work from these big operations they beat you without mercy on price and pay when they feel like it. One of the local big name plants deducted a handling fee for the hassle of paying you. To make it even more painful they often staff the plants with large numbers of low pay, no benefits temp workers. Mr Gilroy, I have a lot of respect for what you are trying to do. You have the ear of the public and the mind of the young. You use your platform to effect a change from the bottom. I task you to drive it down from the top. We are engaged in an economic war against an enemy who plays to win. And winner takes all. "Non nobis solum nati sumus" Cicero I would love to discuss this further with you. I am in NC. But have a phone and can travel.
My AAS in CNC manufacturing technology included 12 credits of math and arts and 60 program credits. 64 isn't enough. Also my program focused heavily on manual machining for the first year and I really don't think this adds a lot of value. A lot of teachers are stuck in this mindset where they feel their experiences are marginalized by the CNC controller. Its backwards thinking and it wastes precious curriculum space on skills that have not been relevant in CNC manufacturing for decades. Also I've worked in volume manufacturing where they have this crazy idea that they don't want overtrained operators because they want to operate super cheap. Titan has a good point that the future to staying competitive isn't a cheap, dumb workforce. It is highly qualified individuals taking advantage of technology such as automation, high speed machining, lights out manufacturing, etc. That is what will make companies stay profitable. I have seen shops that do not embrace technology and they inevitably die.
If taught properly a class in manual machining does add value. Keep in mind most young students have never used a drill bit or seen a wrench (let alone a machine tool) before the first day of class. A manual machine shop class gives the opportunity to see these things and start to understand how they work. This way when they have a problem on a cnc (dull tool, slipping drill bit, etc) they have half a chance of figuring it out. Also the instructor cant simply hand out a print and say "do it" then wander off. They have to be engaged with the students and make an effort. A manual machine is a great opportunity to do things like knock the vise out of tram before the students come in. Let them try to square up a block and discover it tapers. Why? How do we check, how do we fix, how did it happen? Sure this could be done on a cnc. But the college can buy many more manual mills then they can cnc for the same money.
Maybe funding is part of that problem. My school had probably 40 Bridgeport knee mills, but only 4 CNC Machining centers and only 2 of them worked well. Spending a year struggling with crappy DRO's and awful backlash does not prepare students for modern manufacturing. The fundamentals are important but it does not take one year to teach them.
FUNDING. Thats the root of it. Its a numbers game. Back to fundamentals. In the two semesters I teach "manual" machining I cover boring, broaching, some metallurgy, speeds and feeds, fundamental fixturing, materials, a little quoting, prototraks and milpowr controls, a little grinding, heat treating, indicating, drawing pints, etc. So I cover way more then dumping a student in front of a worn out manual machine. The quality of education varies widely between schools, classes, instructors, and even groups of students with all else being equal.
THIS industry is not an option for kids, it's simply something some of them turn to to make a decent living once they figure out that university level education is not for them. You're talking about the education system and it's important to note that that system is itself, an industry. 'Kids' are sold on the need to get a degree... "Get your degree or become well acquainted with your spatula, cause you're gonna be flipping a lot of burgers". My path was pretty easy; my dad was a tool and die maker who liked to build things and that rubbed off on me, so 6 years and an engineering degree was just 'the path' for me and I knew that at an early age. Most people only know what their parents did, because the education system doesn't expose them to other options outside of academia. That and high schools are underfunded to the point where they no longer even teach basic woodworking. You want to make a difference, start working with local high schools in an effort to expose these kids to the machining trades. I'm trying to do this locally... and sadly I've met a lot of roadblocks, but I'm not giving up. On the other side of this, training is key and I will go on to say that most companies, don't want the operators knowing anything more than... load this thing, push this green button and remove finished thing to put another on. Why? Because they want to keep the pay down. And my advice to anyone in that situation is, GTFO. The only barrier to you learning anything in this age is you.
I always wonder why everyone makes CNC machining out to be so hard also. I eventually came to the conclusion that people make it out to be something hard because it is so expensive. its like there are no little mess ups. every single little mistake is so damn expensive. So if someone learns to program before they learn all the basic machinist things then from my experience you are asking for trouble.
I really like your Realtalks! You`re absolutly right! Looking forwar for more videos. They`re just inspiring and fascinating - Lets do a lion,..... - 18 year old toolmaker in cutting direction in apprentice
Common Core is the pinnacle of the dumbing down of today's kids. It is about disenfranchising kids and having them learn in obtuse and frustrating ways. This is by design. It started in the 70's with the "new math". It only got worse with every new edition. Kids that had too much spirit are drugged so they fit into the prison. Task based education is the only way to learn. Memorizing reams of useless information has brought us to this point. A broken economy, a broken education system. Parents & teachers need rebel and save the future. The academy is the best example of how to learn. Teach to where the puck is going, not where is has been.
There is also an inherent problem with kids not wanting to "put in the work." They think they should be immediately hired into a high paying job, with no experience, no training, no knowledge. It's the main reason. They don't want to work as an "underling" for a couple years, until they learn the ins and outs. Plus _kids these days_ have no concept of materials sciences and dead reckoning/D.O.P.E.. They don't have the hands on experience to make deductions on past experiences. They don't build things (not the same as the b.s. "maker" movement, where people stick a bunch of shit together to make some pointless, half-assed, shitty project. Lara Kamptf type of "maker"), take things apart, explore the properties of different materials, etc.
Ive been in a grinding cell for 6 months no experience before and run 2 swiss, and just need the programming part and im set. The old timers at my work tell me i need to go to school and i asked four kids straight out of a 2 year program if its worth it and they all laughed and said when they came to my company they couldnt run the mills and make the parts we do.. all needed to be trained on the job even though they spent 15-20k on school... sure they know general stuff tooling feeds and speeds and there way around but they agree that the education of schooling is broken...
I sort of agree. My AAS in CNC machining didn't teach me enough practical experience in setting up cnc machines or adjusting offsets. All of the school projects were far too simple and unrealistic. I learned a lot on the job. BUT... my education gave me a really strong understanding of G&M code- something all my on-the-job trained peers didn't understand. When programs didn't work right it was trivial for me to make it work and pass the feedback to the programmer. The other operators just stood around and waited for the programmer to come to their machine and fix it.
Titan, I agree with you on the education of the young people and bringing them up. However, I see a problem with the industry as a whole and that is pay. If you look at the average wages for cnc machinists and toolmakers it has been stagnated for years. If everyone can do this and it is easy, do you think companies are really going to pay more? The reason older guys are resistant to training young guys (it happened to me back in the late 90's) is if a younger guy can do the job for less money, why do they need the older experienced guy? I know you say the older guys can just rise up through the ranks but reality is that often doesn't happen, instead they will make their jobs obsolete. I for one don't necessarily look at it like that, I've always tried to help and train people, because I had to basically teach myself this trade, which is a difficult and lengthy process. However, I'm not naive either I know I need to constantly stay ahead and continue to push what I can do or I will be replaced by someone that will do what I can't. Typically to really make money in this trade you have to work tons of overtime and have no life, or own your own shop and work mega tons of overtime and have no life. My point is, these companies need to pay better to attract more younger people to work in it. I applaud you for stepping up and trying to help though! Boom!
Shops who don't invest in technology and improve their efficiency will always cheap out on operators. It is easier to hire cheap operators than to palletize your work or run lights out. So you can blame greedy and shortsighted shop owners for a lot of the pay problems in the industry. It's true though that there is a lot of foreign competition on machines components and that does depress industry wages. It's a tough problem.
@TITANS of CNC: Academy You travel the US regularly it seems. I live in Jacksonville, FL. I am interested in "Making Chips" Is there anyone in the area you know of to approach to learn the trade?
It has basically no effect at all yet. 3D printing is so slow that it still is not competitive with casting and machining. Its huge in aerospace though as there are geometries you can print that cannot be fabricated any other way.
And another thing everyone should think about while we're wondering wtf has happened to manufacturing. What drives the influx on cheaply made goods from other countries? Right, our own willingness to pay for them. Basic supply side economics. If you walk into a furniture store to buy a bed; one is made in Vietnam... screws, no joinery to speak of, cheap laminate materials, etc., etc.. And next to it, a solid oak bed made in North Carolina with mortise and tenon joints, solid construction throughout, but it costs 3x more than Vietnam. Are you willing to pay for quality? If not, then why complain about the loss of jobs to foreign manufacturing when you're actually... part of the problem? I get that most of us would like to buy higher quality but can't afford it, but if you saved up for Vietnam, it stands to reason you could save 3x longer to buy North Carolina. Simply put, I believe "we" are part of the manufacturing problem in the US. Supply and demand... what do we demand? And, the race to the bottom continues.
Titan , But wait , I just heard that someone just hurt them self's he just sprain his eye lash ! Im AHT IM OUT ' boom ' But in all seriousness Thank you !
That is a legitimate problem, but also that kids born around the turn of the millennium font want to learn or put in the time, period. They just think, "I know how to do x, y, & z. I should be more hired immediately, and be financially compensated the same as the guy who is more proficient and has more experience."
I don't see any shops in Minneapolis paying $12 per hour. If you have any experience at all or an associates degree starting at $18 or more is the normal. No one is well served by a lesser trained workforce. Also kids have way more student debt than the generation before them. Just getting an associate's degree might cost them $35k. So kids go to school to learn the skills and they want to make enough money to pay back the degree. They aren't crazy and trying to generalize the whole generation as lazy or entitled is really disingenuous.
My company Just hired a kid with no experience. The first thing I said to him was "If you are interested in machining, check out Titan's Academy. He since has bought a set of Calipers and a 0 to 1 mic. He's been really excited to learn. Thank you for putting such resources out there. I was I had them when I was learning the trade.
Hi Titan, we all failed doing it the old way,. Maybe doing it another way is what we need to succeed. Manufacturing is like a world wonder and making something is what our creator intended us to do. Man is made in His image, to create.
I was a C.N.C. Machinist for 48 years I loved it. There is nothing in the world that is manufactured now days that doesn’t go through a machinist.
Truly a CNC machinist is a dream job!
No one likes to talk about money but i'm 100% sure that's what people get excited, knowing how much you make if you do this and that sure makes me excited hope this covers your next vlog. Thanks!
I completely agree with your sentiments Titan. I went to a technical program for CNC machining yet it did not prepare me for what I would face on the shop floor. I did have good mentors that helped me when I started working though. Also seeing what other people on Instagram and RUclips are out there doing really helped me to learn and expand my knowledge. I recently found a great position and I'm learning more than ever. However I do see first hand that there is resistance towards young SKILLED machinist stepping into the shop. I think both companies and experienced machinist don't want too many new people because their afraid of having to pay more on one side, but also dealing with more competition on the other. Not to ignore that in time the average salary would decrease because of a larger pool of capable machinists/programmers. Also automation has become a such a huge threat. Companies want the most efficient workers with the lowest possible pay. Automation does that for them. Yet I see the importance of letting people know about this great trade. My heart sinks Everytime I say wat I do and no one has a clue what it is or how integral it is to their way of life.
I need to teach one of my guys how to program the CNC lathe. and pass that on to him. You're so right Titan.
You’re one of a kind titan! Love everything you’ve got to say and are an inspiration in this industry. Been in this industry for only 5 years starting on the floor to one of the top cad/cam programmers in my shop. This channel has helped me so much it’s unreal!
Dam! You are special Mister!!! Super motivating....Im so with you. USA MADE...we need to be creative again!
Thank for putting these skills out there. It helped me learn to be better and work faster. And then everyone wins. Thats whats so awesome about this. Not just the cream of the crop. EVERYONE. BOOM!!!!!
Im 16 and im studing CNC, mastercam, and more, in Spain and i like it, I would like to work in the furture like you are working now, your are amazing 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
Amen to this folks. It's time to get real. This is the future of Machining and people trying hold people back from valuable and free training are foolish. There is no sense in wanting a lesser trained workforce.
I agree completely. Too many people nowdays only take a short term view. What you have said is applicable all over the world. Steel is a commodity. It is available all over the world. So are cnc machines. I need a doctor once every few months. I need a farmer 3 times a day. But I need a cnc machinist every hour of the day!!!
Students need to gain a strong understanding of tools as well, I can't tell you how many guys have come into my shop calling themselves machinists who can't explain what makes a tool cut or why he is struggling to hold a tolerance while using the wrong tool. They can flip an insert but couldn't begin to tell you why it cuts. It's great to learn programing but if you can't trouble shoot your work you are just a fancy button pusher. I support what you are doing, many people will take advantage of this training and a small percentage will discover a passion as we have, rise above and make a difference. Nice job Ive been watching for a long time.
I think between you and john saunders there is a good basis of curriculum that is truly helping lots of kids (me being one of them) get into CNC, as well as the large amount of other manufacturing professionals that provide more educational content that is more general to machining (robrenz, edge precision, and stefan gotteswinter to name a few). I think that the formal style of education absolutely fails to teach knowledge like this and it must be taught through doing, this is exactly what you are trying to fix and i am grateful for that. I do however have a critique: Your content focuses on making parts in industrial machines that very few can access. I believe that you should have content that focuses on types of parts that a FRC robotics team would make (milled aluminium extrusions) on machines that robotics teams have (gantery style cnc routers like the velox 50x50) because it would be easier for students to get access to your content and still teach the fundamentals (feeds and speeds, cam, and work-holding).
I don't agree with everything you do but I damn well appreciate what your trying to do.
I agree with what you've said here 100%!!
On a side note, can we as an industry stop using RPM and IPM when we talk about tooling? It drives me nuts! Those are resultant numbers that the machine may or may not need and are irrelevant when considering feeds and speeds for tooling.
Surface feet per minute, its metric equivalent and feed per tooth or revolution is all that matters.
When I here someone talk about running a tool at such and such an RPM and bla bla IPM I lose interest. I'm not about to get out my calculator to reverse engineer what's really happening.
Surface speed matters! Ever tried cutting inconel 718 with carbide at 250 SFM? How about 30? Doesn't matter if your CPT is perfect. It's a matter of cutting dynamics and if you're not in the sweet spot for these tricky materials you blow up tools. Period.
@@highvoltagefeathers lets assume a 1/2 × 1/2 × 1.1/4 × 3 - 6 flute premium quality end mill. If I was pocketing 1.1/4 deep in 718 I would do so by helical boring to full depth then pocket out at a starting point of 5% stepover, 225 SFPM (surface feet per minute) at 0.002 to 0.0035 FPT (feed per tooth). If I changed to a 4 flute end mill I would do the exact same thing though the 4 flute has less core strength. If I changed to a 5/8 end mill I would again do the same thing taking into account the extra rigidity, so stepover may increase somewhat and feed would get a higher starting value.
At no point in my thought process does RPM or IPM come into play until after the initial parameters are determined. I will for example use RPM and FPR (feed per revolution) DOC and stepover to get my IPM and MRR to compare that 1/2" and 5/8" because biggar isn't always better but at no point are those values useful for establishing cutting parameter guidelines.
Ps, I'd lose my sh$t or laugh uncontrollably if a caught one of my guys cutting almost any alloy at 30 SFPM with good quality coated carbide.
Can we stop talking in... Imperial units. I get tired of multiplying everything by 25.4...
Ive seem countless university grads going absolutely no where...You can be so productive with a cnc education you can become your own business. The skys the limit... You just have no idea the opportunities that available with this knowledge!
I'm 2 weeks away from graduating my CNC program at RCC. I already have a job lined up to run multiple CNC Haas Mills. I'm super excited!
From Ireland; I wasn’t first introduced into CNC machining until I was 16, I never heard about it until I worked over the summer for work experience; I started as an operator and wanted to be the guy that everyone turned to to ask for help, when I pursued it, I found an amazing teacher who took his own time to train me, if it wasn’t for his methods and my enthusiasm, I wouldn’t be here today if it wasn’t for him. I’m only 22 and now I’m in charge of a machine shop in a small sub-manufacturing company, but it never would have happened without the devotion my teacher gave me, we need more people like that !
First of all, less irrelevant education. While underwater basket weaving may be fairly interesting, it is not necessary. Now, they should have decent communication both written and verbal. Then, give tggem a perfunctory metallurgy, and maybe some simple stuff. You are right because there seems to be a lack of attention span. Good job.
100% the truth. "Making the complex simple" and attainable and then speeding it up!!
The reason for "Skills Gap" could be because the school education was not good and deep enough. But the employer could give the employee some time to improve his missing "skills".
If you work hard 12-15 hours a day to correct your mistakes, you will be perfect in a month.
I am a critic of your channel but you are exactly right.
What people don’t know is, I am a machinist just trying to make a difference... I laugh at my own mistakes but strive to get better... I have entitles my own bank accounts and struggle... but all in an effort to bring awareness and get kids excited about our trade... Thanks for being a critic and keeping me accountable:-)
PS. At least I dared to step into the Coliseum to put it all on the line...
Most are just talking, while are trade goes down...
TITANS of CNC: Academy The problem isn’t WE. The Problem is the Big 3 automotive company.
@@TITANSofCNC I have big respect for what you stand for. You're a machinist that's trying to employ people and manufacture in the US. You're trying to do things that other machinists aren't. We need to bring manufacturing back to the US. The way the US is going, which is a deeper convo, is disgusting. People feel like they should be ashamed to want to have their product made in the USA, to buy a product made in the USA, to come out and say that they want things made in the USA. They are too concerned with, "we can't have stuff made in the USA, that's not fair. China is a developing nation you shouldn't be able to make products elsewhere. You can't say Chinese products are shit." The Chinese have a strong sense of nationalism and varen't ashamed about it, and they're laughing at us for being so stupid. That's why their country is developing at a crazy fast rate. _They_ (I think we all know who _they_ are.) are trying to strip themselves and other Americans of any pride in their country. If you want to get a feel for the absolute garbage Americans are buying from China, look at the products on the wish dot com. It's insane. Keep doing the great things you're doing.
+TITANS of CNC: Academy … AND the trade IS going down, people don't see the bigger picture and profile and it may take about 20 years of consistent effort to reverse that trend or turn this "battleship" around. What gives me hope is that there are things that CAN be done better in the USA than overseas/China (I feel like we should focus on that first). The fact that Foxconn chose to build one of their biggest plants ever in Wisconsin is encouraging and there will be TONS and TONS and TONS of automation, so they are going to need a LOT of people that are super -"jiggy" with automation and robotics. [Cool that you/ we do this ourselves rather than waiting for politicians to pull their finger out 'cuz if we do that things really are going to go down the tubes. LEAD BY EXAMPLE is always the best way. ].
I have been making CNC micromachined parts with no formal training for seven years. I'm going to try your program. When I'm done, I'm going to look to you on how to write tool posts. After that, maybe you will have a program for making better CNC software. The software I'm using now is good, but they need better stock recognition, they need to stop rearranging my work space, and they need to better explain the algorithms that they developed. Thank you!
I appreciate what you are doing for our industry !
I work as a cnc teacher here in Sweden and we have the same problem, kids these days just want to be a "youtuber" socialmedia expert and shit like that. When we are out at schools talking about the craftmanship and show them stuff that they make, the first question i always get is "Is it a dirty job?" The industry is screwed :-(
You are absolutely right.
Tech moves along way fast these days, i would have loved the access you are giving Tyson, all i got was a book and told its all in there, in the UK, programming tutors want £300+ a day to train, but kids have to accept, you need to learn how to grind a drill first, not jus practically, but because you humble yourself to the art that is engineering, i find in the UK at least its very snobby, i started a HNC evening class, and after the guys found out i was shop floor they no longer talked to me, i dropped it eventually, but when you have time to develop your own stuff, free from the BS of snobbery, you can truly innovate, and create, and that is something you cant teach, it has to be nurtured and encouraged, it will be that spirit that will keep nations strong, tech dont make you great, but it helps to envisage your creativity, its those guys i think will hear your call, take it easy dude
The problem is much greater then simply saying CNC education isn't good enough is only part of the problem.
K-12 is often not producing kids who are truly prepared for college. Many high schools have switched to a 10 point grading scale to make it easier to pass. Additionally, they instituted a grading policy (even if not publicly broadcast) where a student receives a 50 on all assignments, even if not turned in. This way if they do any work at all and pass the end of year testing they pass the class. This will not help them in college or the real world.
Another problem (which you are trying to address), is we simply do not attract kids (and often adults) into manufacturing. Manufacturing is seen as dirty, outdated, and dying. As I just said, you are trying to help with this and I teach in the trades. We are aggressively reaching out to the high school and middle school students to carry the message to them. We also setup booths at car shows, unemployment office, temp agencies, church groups, scouts, city county meetings, and any other public platform we can find to spread the word. But it is worth noting that many times small shops (and not so small) do not have the time or simply won't find the time to help us attend these events or even bother to show up at the college for a meeting where we are asking for their time to help plan the curriculum and make sure we are teaching the students what they need to know.
On top of all this, the trade has grown to the point that we simply are unable to cover everything in two years. Students show up at 18-years-old who have never seen a wrench. and in two years they are expected to have tackled, digested, and mastered 5 axis mills, 3 axis lathes, etc. Plus everything else to get to that point. And you have to consider we graduate students with roughly 64 credit hours. And a shockingly large portion of that is English, math, humanities, etc. Go to Germany, large portions of the non-trade classes are simply not in the curriculum, making more room for directly relevant classes. We need a third year for advanced manufacturing.
This doesn't even tackle the 800lb gorilla. The US lacks an industrial policy. The federal government caters to Wall St. (and its much worse than this), but these big companies were the first to offshore production. If they do stay in America they demand concessions in the form of tax breaks, direct payouts, and worker training paid for by the state and local government (read that as tax money handed out to cover large corporations' bills) . But the small shops pay 100% of the tax burden. And if you manage to land any work from these big operations they beat you without mercy on price and pay when they feel like it. One of the local big name plants deducted a handling fee for the hassle of paying you. To make it even more painful they often staff the plants with large numbers of low pay, no benefits temp workers.
Mr Gilroy, I have a lot of respect for what you are trying to do. You have the ear of the public and the mind of the young. You use your platform to effect a change from the bottom. I task you to drive it down from the top. We are engaged in an economic war against an enemy who plays to win. And winner takes all.
"Non nobis solum nati sumus" Cicero
I would love to discuss this further with you. I am in NC. But have a phone and can travel.
My AAS in CNC manufacturing technology included 12 credits of math and arts and 60 program credits. 64 isn't enough. Also my program focused heavily on manual machining for the first year and I really don't think this adds a lot of value. A lot of teachers are stuck in this mindset where they feel their experiences are marginalized by the CNC controller. Its backwards thinking and it wastes precious curriculum space on skills that have not been relevant in CNC manufacturing for decades.
Also I've worked in volume manufacturing where they have this crazy idea that they don't want overtrained operators because they want to operate super cheap. Titan has a good point that the future to staying competitive isn't a cheap, dumb workforce. It is highly qualified individuals taking advantage of technology such as automation, high speed machining, lights out manufacturing, etc. That is what will make companies stay profitable. I have seen shops that do not embrace technology and they inevitably die.
If taught properly a class in manual machining does add value. Keep in mind most young students have never used a drill bit or seen a wrench (let alone a machine tool) before the first day of class. A manual machine shop class gives the opportunity to see these things and start to understand how they work. This way when they have a problem on a cnc (dull tool, slipping drill bit, etc) they have half a chance of figuring it out. Also the instructor cant simply hand out a print and say "do it" then wander off. They have to be engaged with the students and make an effort. A manual machine is a great opportunity to do things like knock the vise out of tram before the students come in. Let them try to square up a block and discover it tapers. Why? How do we check, how do we fix, how did it happen? Sure this could be done on a cnc. But the college can buy many more manual mills then they can cnc for the same money.
Maybe funding is part of that problem. My school had probably 40 Bridgeport knee mills, but only 4 CNC Machining centers and only 2 of them worked well. Spending a year struggling with crappy DRO's and awful backlash does not prepare students for modern manufacturing. The fundamentals are important but it does not take one year to teach them.
FUNDING. Thats the root of it. Its a numbers game. Back to fundamentals. In the two semesters I teach "manual" machining I cover boring, broaching, some metallurgy, speeds and feeds, fundamental fixturing, materials, a little quoting, prototraks and milpowr controls, a little grinding, heat treating, indicating, drawing pints, etc. So I cover way more then dumping a student in front of a worn out manual machine.
The quality of education varies widely between schools, classes, instructors, and even groups of students with all else being equal.
I m really happy that there is guys lake you in this cruel world , keep up the great work
THIS industry is not an option for kids, it's simply something some of them turn to to make a decent living once they figure out that university level education is not for them. You're talking about the education system and it's important to note that that system is itself, an industry. 'Kids' are sold on the need to get a degree... "Get your degree or become well acquainted with your spatula, cause you're gonna be flipping a lot of burgers". My path was pretty easy; my dad was a tool and die maker who liked to build things and that rubbed off on me, so 6 years and an engineering degree was just 'the path' for me and I knew that at an early age. Most people only know what their parents did, because the education system doesn't expose them to other options outside of academia. That and high schools are underfunded to the point where they no longer even teach basic woodworking. You want to make a difference, start working with local high schools in an effort to expose these kids to the machining trades. I'm trying to do this locally... and sadly I've met a lot of roadblocks, but I'm not giving up.
On the other side of this, training is key and I will go on to say that most companies, don't want the operators knowing anything more than... load this thing, push this green button and remove finished thing to put another on. Why? Because they want to keep the pay down. And my advice to anyone in that situation is, GTFO. The only barrier to you learning anything in this age is you.
A real conversation? With who?! Lol meaning...who the hell is talking back?! Lol
I feel you though...all true talk.
With you :-)
We're talking back. He's having a convo with US.
Titan, you should check out Ranken Technical College's CNC and Manual machine shop in St. Louis
I always wonder why everyone makes CNC machining out to be so hard also. I eventually came to the conclusion that people make it out to be something hard because it is so expensive. its like there are no little mess ups. every single little mistake is so damn expensive. So if someone learns to program before they learn all the basic machinist things then from my experience you are asking for trouble.
Its starts pouring by first drop. Great job
I really like your Realtalks! You`re absolutly right!
Looking forwar for more videos. They`re just inspiring and fascinating - Lets do a lion,.....
- 18 year old toolmaker in cutting direction in apprentice
Common Core is the pinnacle of the dumbing down of today's kids. It is about disenfranchising kids and having them learn in obtuse and frustrating ways. This is by design. It started in the 70's with the "new math". It only got worse with every new edition. Kids that had too much spirit are drugged so they fit into the prison. Task based education is the only way to learn. Memorizing reams of useless information has brought us to this point. A broken economy, a broken education system. Parents & teachers need rebel and save the future. The academy is the best example of how to learn. Teach to where the puck is going, not where is has been.
There is also an inherent problem with kids not wanting to "put in the work." They think they should be immediately hired into a high paying job, with no experience, no training, no knowledge. It's the main reason. They don't want to work as an "underling" for a couple years, until they learn the ins and outs. Plus _kids these days_ have no concept of materials sciences and dead reckoning/D.O.P.E.. They don't have the hands on experience to make deductions on past experiences. They don't build things (not the same as the b.s. "maker" movement, where people stick a bunch of shit together to make some pointless, half-assed, shitty project. Lara Kamptf type of "maker"), take things apart, explore the properties of different materials, etc.
Great thoughts, we need more teachers like you.!!!
Ive been in a grinding cell for 6 months no experience before and run 2 swiss, and just need the programming part and im set. The old timers at my work tell me i need to go to school and i asked four kids straight out of a 2 year program if its worth it and they all laughed and said when they came to my company they couldnt run the mills and make the parts we do.. all needed to be trained on the job even though they spent 15-20k on school... sure they know general stuff tooling feeds and speeds and there way around but they agree that the education of schooling is broken...
I sort of agree. My AAS in CNC machining didn't teach me enough practical experience in setting up cnc machines or adjusting offsets. All of the school projects were far too simple and unrealistic. I learned a lot on the job. BUT... my education gave me a really strong understanding of G&M code- something all my on-the-job trained peers didn't understand. When programs didn't work right it was trivial for me to make it work and pass the feedback to the programmer. The other operators just stood around and waited for the programmer to come to their machine and fix it.
Titan, I agree with you on the education of the young people and bringing them up. However, I see a problem with the industry as a whole and that is pay. If you look at the average wages for cnc machinists and toolmakers it has been stagnated for years. If everyone can do this and it is easy, do you think companies are really going to pay more? The reason older guys are resistant to training young guys (it happened to me back in the late 90's) is if a younger guy can do the job for less money, why do they need the older experienced guy? I know you say the older guys can just rise up through the ranks but reality is that often doesn't happen, instead they will make their jobs obsolete. I for one don't necessarily look at it like that, I've always tried to help and train people, because I had to basically teach myself this trade, which is a difficult and lengthy process. However, I'm not naive either I know I need to constantly stay ahead and continue to push what I can do or I will be replaced by someone that will do what I can't. Typically to really make money in this trade you have to work tons of overtime and have no life, or own your own shop and work mega tons of overtime and have no life. My point is, these companies need to pay better to attract more younger people to work in it. I applaud you for stepping up and trying to help though! Boom!
Shops who don't invest in technology and improve their efficiency will always cheap out on operators. It is easier to hire cheap operators than to palletize your work or run lights out. So you can blame greedy and shortsighted shop owners for a lot of the pay problems in the industry. It's true though that there is a lot of foreign competition on machines components and that does depress industry wages. It's a tough problem.
Power of sharing knowledge
Exactly. Why teach to succeed when you can teach to excell?
@TITANS of CNC: Academy You travel the US regularly it seems. I live in Jacksonville, FL. I am interested in "Making Chips" Is there anyone in the area you know of to approach to learn the trade?
What you thinking about 3d printing .. it's affect CNC manufacturing
It has basically no effect at all yet. 3D printing is so slow that it still is not competitive with casting and machining. Its huge in aerospace though as there are geometries you can print that cannot be fabricated any other way.
TITANS of CNC, I am a 30 year old learning computer integrated machining. How can I work for you when I get done?
Let's fix education!
I go to a school where we have 1 cnc mill and cnc lathe my problem is finding all the buttons to use
Very true and damn well said!
And another thing everyone should think about while we're wondering wtf has happened to manufacturing. What drives the influx on cheaply made goods from other countries? Right, our own willingness to pay for them. Basic supply side economics. If you walk into a furniture store to buy a bed; one is made in Vietnam... screws, no joinery to speak of, cheap laminate materials, etc., etc.. And next to it, a solid oak bed made in North Carolina with mortise and tenon joints, solid construction throughout, but it costs 3x more than Vietnam. Are you willing to pay for quality? If not, then why complain about the loss of jobs to foreign manufacturing when you're actually... part of the problem?
I get that most of us would like to buy higher quality but can't afford it, but if you saved up for Vietnam, it stands to reason you could save 3x longer to buy North Carolina. Simply put, I believe "we" are part of the manufacturing problem in the US. Supply and demand... what do we demand? And, the race to the bottom continues.
I agree
Titan , But wait , I just heard that someone just hurt them self's he just sprain his eye lash ! Im AHT IM OUT ' boom ' But in all seriousness Thank you !
The problem is no one wants to get there hands dirty
Manual jobs are seen as lower class jobs not worthy
philip gorham who would someone go into a manufacturing industry where everyone is a dick head and get paid $12.50 an hour plus weak benefits.
That is a legitimate problem, but also that kids born around the turn of the millennium font want to learn or put in the time, period. They just think, "I know how to do x, y, & z. I should be more hired immediately, and be financially compensated the same as the guy who is more proficient and has more experience."
I don't see any shops in Minneapolis paying $12 per hour. If you have any experience at all or an associates degree starting at $18 or more is the normal. No one is well served by a lesser trained workforce. Also kids have way more student debt than the generation before them. Just getting an associate's degree might cost them $35k. So kids go to school to learn the skills and they want to make enough money to pay back the degree. They aren't crazy and trying to generalize the whole generation as lazy or entitled is really disingenuous.
Wow! I see it now
ThAts not far enough .searl seg generator study and make it .
Boom💥💥🔥
Yes bro bombommm
Whaa!?😂