Working for a performance manufacturer, I can confirm the front wheels skipping is normal in low grip situations and is caused by the front geometry (including Ackerman principle plus camber change) that can be worse with rear wheel drive pushing when on full lock. It is nothing to worry about and can sometimes be improved with different tyres. Don't let it put you off buying the car🤔 Another great vid when you were clearly cold and tyred (get it!) 👍
Hi Pete, the steering angle has been mentioned by others. I used full winters on mine and the noise went, my confidence increased and race mode was easily available. Then when the weather improved I put the PZero’s back on. I never thought it needed 4x4, being able to use the power through the rear is more fun (with the right tyres!) It is an incredible car and way more individual than any of its competitors. Keep up the great work 🥇
Over 6 years of watching reviews about this car and the stelvio.. If i had to pic one.. It would be the giulia.. Over all the q4 from the stelvio for All year driving.. The giulia is the sportier and more authentic sportscar.. The true one.. Even its not so safe for winter.. Its the peak point of drivers car..! Thanks for your honest review!
I love the design of the Giulia. I think it's really by far the best looking sport sedan on the market. I understand that you have to be very careful when it's wet or very cold with summer tyres. But the driving experience, steering, sound, are unique.
Peter you have never given a review that wasn`t honest, its not in your nature, its how your parents brought you up, and it is what we expect and receive every time. The thumping noise when it appears may be something to do with the power steering trying to cope with the cold but I can`t say for sure, so thank you once again for showing us your work and the car, so see you on the next one.
You seem to get massively hung up on summer tyres and traction on a high power rwd car in the winter...... I’m running Goodyear Supersport tyres on mine and the traction for a powerful rwd car is ridiculously good. That torque vectoring differential is excellent. It puts my previous high power rwd cars to shame (F82 M4, E92 M3 etc) I agree the exhaust thing is silly from AR, but it’s like £300 to have rectified by various aftermarket companies....not exactly a big deal is it. The tyres skipping is down to akerman geometry, it does it on various other cars like the cayman, TT etc. Just a small trade off for the better steering. Buy one, fit PS4S or GY SS tyres and fit the exhaust module. Job done ✅
Seriously. It was late and I was tired when I watched this and I actually got mad and knew I had to turn in at that point. Half the video complaining about the tires is like getting a shiny new phone and then complaining about the case. Change the case! You should be complaining to whomever loaned the car with a poor tire choice for regional conditions. Anyway, otherwise, I really like this guy.
@stephen longfield I love your comment, perfectly explained! Thank you, and wish you lots of happy moments with your QV, hopefully I'm gonna join soon the club! All the best!
I think the solution to your problems (except the ackerman) is the Giulia Veloce Q4... AWD and a much more manageable 280hp. I have one and is a marble. Great to go on the mountains on those cold wet days. Still faster than 95% of what you found on the normal roads. Only just not that track focused. And you can get it with full camel colored leather... You don't get the V6 sound but you don't get the MPG either.
As many others have said, the "wheel skipping" on full lock is to do with the front wheel geometry. My 981 gen Cayman GTS does the same when cold. Gets better as the tires warm up. Had P-zeros on the Porsche.
Yo PP, MY 2020 allows opening of the exhaust flap in D mode. Check it out next time you drive one. Also, changing out tires is not really a hardship for a car at this price point. You really want one...I can tell!
I wouldn’t regard the characteristics you referred to as “flaws”. More so a consequence of tyre choice, ambient temperature and sketchy road surface conditions when combined with a car which can be provoked to oversteer.
And now Alfa have changed the front suspension to reduce wheel skipping at low speeds and completely ruined the steering! 2021 car has lost it's edge compared to the 2017 one I have just replaced. What were they thinking!? Wheel skip was not a problem once the P Zero Corsa Tyres were removed from the old one.
@@NeuKrofta if in UK it's after the 69 Plate, maybe with some exceptions due to late registration. Basically if it is a 2020 spec facelift car with the different rear lights etc it has the later setup. All confirmed by the Alfa parts cat.
Correction: former owner of one of these cars. I had a 17 model. You say that exhaust valves only open in race. That was true for pre 20 models but in 20 models you can open the valves in dynamic via the infotainment system - car settings. I'll be buying the 20 model soon for sure. Best road car I have driven!
I'm north of Milan and on my Giulia 2.0 200HP I have 4 winter tyres now. I can't imagine how could it be with a QV up there now! Yes, DEFINITIVELY put winter tyres! That "wheel thing" is due to geometry of front suspension. To have that sharp steering and adherence you have to deal with that. No problem if you ask me. There is even an official bulletin that explain why it happens.
The problem with the wheels skipping over the tarmac is called the Ackerman effect. Porsche and Maserati got the Same „Problem“ when it’s getting cold outside. The Alfa is just a real dream car. Loved the video
The 2021 models can access the exhaust notes, without being in Race mode, is my understanding. Please give those dogs a scratch from me and a hug, so cute.
Lived in Europe for 15 years. There is a simple solution. Winter tyres. What you are talking about is not an issue when you have summer and winter rubber.
I put Michelin Alpins on mine every winter and that makes it perfect. Fabulous car. Now had mine 3 years and absolutely no plans to Change it. Longest car I’ve ever kept.
Just swap the Pirellis out for some MPS4Ss, or some Goodyear F1s. It's not hard. Also helps to alleviate the impact of the Ackerman geometry at slow speed and full lock. You can also get a very cheap mod to manually control the exhaust valves.
That’s it. I’ve had many Alfas do this - my current Stelvio Milano does it. Usually much worse in reverse. The pay off is the wheels are as near to 90 degrees with the road.
I think RUclipsrs need to do start doing some research in the items or topics they are making video's on. So much bad information and rumors are being posted on the internet. Example: Driving on Summer performance tires in winter in -2 temps and complaining about the rear tires sliding or the Ackerman angle effect. A simple google search would have giving you all of the answers. Now a person who doesn't know much about cars will view this video and think Alfa's has some serious problems. This is the reason why all car manufactures have "dumbed down" cars. Great example is the M3.
So I went ahead and bought my dream car: a Giulia Quadrifoglio. Had exactly the same issue: the skidding and not-so-grippy corsa’s in the wet. Put some Sottozero tyres on it for the winter (yes, 500 RW bhp needs winter tyres) and voilà, car transformed! No more skidding front wheels and more accessible performance. It just puts a smile on my face... what a machine! 🥰
I’ve had a Quadrifoglio for 2 years on the P Zero Corsa, now I’m on Pilot 4S and the car is transformed. No more tyre skip turning out of the drive every morning or white knuckled driving on a cold wet day waiting for the rear end to step out. Best upgrade ever, except maybe for the Forza exhaust bypass for Race sound in every mode!
I had a Veloce. Beautiful, best handling car ever. Non stop issues, handed back to the lease company early. Would I have another? In a heartbeat, just for the driving experience, they might get one more chance.
My '14 Boxter S 981 and '08 Z4M do the same in wet. However, Boxter S skips like crazy. I guess there is not enough give in bushings. Definitely, a good thing I would say.
2020-2021 models have an option from factory you can order to have the valves open in dynamic . Or have it installed aftermarket . Michelins 4s are the better everyday option for the car. The wheel thing is the tire , it does not do it with other tires . It is the rubber blocks of the Pirelli tire.
The recent ackermann angle modification has solved the issue. On my Giulia 180 CV I have the same issue, usually when temperature is less than 15°C. When I fit the wither tyres, the problem disappear in any condition.However, when you have driven for some km, even if it is very cold, the problem does not appear also with summer tyres.
The noise is tyres, my BMW does it in reverse, just the tread jumping due to the 'scrub radius' of the front wheels. Only happens in the cold when the tyres compound is hard.
I love mine and have made two mods that answer your main criticisms. Fit Michelin Pilot Sport 2s in the standard sizes, the Pirellis are too track orientated and need some heat. Brings everything back under control and significantly reduces the low speed slip on lock. They drive just as well as the Pirellis, possibly even better. Fit the exhaust flap controller from AH Motorsport, this allows the exhaust to be open in eco and normal so you can enjoy the exhaust all the time!
If you are an owner, love the car and are concerned about safety, then put winter tyres on it when conditions start to deteriorate. Once summer comes refit the Pirelli’s.
Lovely car. An honest opinion is the best thing that you can give to us. We are all different and unless we get the chance to drive one a petrol heads view is the best we have.
+Petrol Ped I own stelvio Q, and I also get that tyre sound if I am late to switch summer tyres to winter tyres. It is due to the fact that wheels go flat when you steer, so summer tyres will skip on full steer if too cold. I don't know about UK, but in my country, it is illegal to drive summer tyres from November 1 until April 1. Also, this flat wheel position on steering is the main ingredient for such a sharp and lovely steering, so the solution is to drive proper tyres for the season :)
The tyre wall is folding under its self on lock. Look at RUclips clips regarding Mercedes GLC Tyres scrubbing. Some guys recorded with the camera showing the tyre wall folding under itself then scrubbing back to its natural position. I used to get on my CLA45 during cold mornings until I got some heat in the tyres, but to be honest I thought it was just a four wheel drive issue.
Had the same issues with the ackerman steering on my diesel Giulia but it did get a lot better with new front tyres fitted. The steering is the same, super sharp and very direct making it a joy to drive down back roads. The handling and long distance ride comfort are exceptionally good, just a shame even the "basic" petrol model is so expensive now. A used Quadrifoglio will surely be a fantastic buy knowing Alfa's typical depreciation.
I know this is an old video. The issue you describe is called tyre skip. Certain Mercedes vehicles suffered with it during cold weather as well. Mercedes used to offer under warranty to replace the tyres with all weather tyres.
The wheels skipping are perfectly normal. It happens to many cars when you have the wrong tyres. When the rubber is too hard they scrubs across the surface of the road especially when the tyres are really wide or there is a high turn angle.
Tire Rub.....someone here in the US found that the tires were rubbing on the front inner fender liners, where the louvers are. Maybe a little judicious heat gun to the effected area would help shape the area better.
The exhaust valve opening in Race only mode can be overwritten in the software so it's possible to change in Dynamic too. The front wheels under full lock are not parallel to each other but they are parallel to the circle they are steering in, consequently they are fighting each other under full lock. As others have suggested this is the "Ackerman" geometry at it's worst.
Yes Ackerman angle. They all do it. I recently acquired a Veloce and it does the same (most noticeable reversing). Great cars. I considered the QF but 500 bhp just too much in a road car to fully enjoy. Haven’t regretted it for a minute. The steering on Giulia’s really is something quite special. So direct.
If I remember correctly, when you turn the steering wheel the outside road wheel turns into the corner more than the inside wheel (or possibly vice versa). I suspect when the tyres are warm this difference in tracking is accommodated by the tyres, however, when you are driving on unsuitable tyres on a cold slippery road surface, the inside tyre will skip laterally, causing the vibration you heard. If that were my car, I would take it in to have the tracking checked and, if it was within tolerance, I wouldn't worry about it. In any case, suitable tyres would be a benefit.
That noise from the front appears to be damn cold tired which are kinda understeering in low speed. They just "rub" on the tarmac. I had this on several cars, mostly on 4WD cars like an Audi R8. Guess it is a steering ratio issue or maybe even wheel alignment like toe-in.
The Guilia is a stunning looking car but it hardly has any competition in its class for looks. Alfa are my favourite brand in this field, owned a few over the years and despite people warning me of the trouble I was going to have it was always them left eating their words, never had a moments problem with any of them and this all despite putting huge mileage on some of them in short periods of time. The steering judder you experienced used to happen in my 159 and it also happens from time to time in my AM Vantage and I always put it down to Ackerman angles as I reasearched it before. Its odd the first time you experience it and almost feels as though the tyres are skipping. Great review and honest review Pete, there isn't a car that doesn't have its foibles.
Great review Pete, I had Michelin Pilot 4S and they were awesome even in temps below zero, even drove in snow on them in my 640D MSport Gran Coupe!! Alfa is just a little too small for me, and M760li is definite next one for me, which I reckon will be a bit of fun!!
My wife's car makes that noise in a damp multi story car park on the tight corners. I think it is the amount of camber on the front wheels on full lock, resulting in only a small patch of tyre properly on the road and with tyres that go hard when its cold, they just skip sideways a fraction on the road. I hate it too and it sounds and feels pretty brutal.
So in summary, 3 points raised are it needs winter tyres in winter - my 640d also needs this, not really the cars fault and this is even more powerful still. Ackerman geometry causes the skip and it needs an exhaust flap setting. Can't believe Alfa haven't sorted the third point for MY2020, people have been saying this since it launched.
Reminds me of the Alfa 164 from the 1980s which was, reportedly, like a large hot hatch to drive. I normally prefer small hatchbacks over large high end saloons but this Alfa is a thing of beauty and sounds fantastic.
Pete, you gave this a decent review. That being said, the solution to 90% of the issues you kept harping about was a simple installation of winter tires for the car in cold climates. I live in California with my 2019 Giulia Veloce, and I have summer P Zero's on it. I have no issues. I never get the problem with the steering noises either, but it rarely drops below 40F here even at night in winter. So, those Corsa Pirelli's are not for U.K. conditions in winter. Or Minnesota in the USA either! ha ha Otherwise, these Giulia models are terrific cars with so many things that make them special. I call it my Jr. Ferrari Sedan! ha ha Cheers friend.
Most rear wheel drive performance cars have a geometry set up that causes the tyre skip at the front. Also you can buy a box that can switch the exhaust flaps in all driving modes.
Locking and skipping is a combination of low tyre grip when cold/wet, aggressive differential and geo. My Reno RS280 Cup with the optional LSD does the same as do 2 Audi S4 with Sports Diff option that I've driven.
Pretty sure the skipping wheels is the Ackermann effect. Happens on pretty much all modern Porsches and nowadays anything with a big enough wheel! I remember following up on it for my 987.2 when in for a service
Great to see a review like this for the Giulia. I’ve got the Veloce and get the tyre noise too. It’s the only car I’ve ever had that does this and it’s good to know it’s normal, thankyou for showing this. Alfa ownership in the U.K. is not much fun when you need to go to the main dealer, but the car is good enough to put up with this. I can’t find a better alternative as a daily car. 👍
Pete, My car is on Michelin alpin 4 winter tyres and you won't believe how this transforms the car even in race mode with so much more grip in all settings. For me it's a must to have winter tyres for this car. It totally gets rid of skippy from the front wheels too at low speeds which is the Ackermann steering effect and affects other makes too. . The Pirellis really have such a small operating window for the uk I don't know why Alfa fit them. Lots of people ditch them for a better all rounder. So to sum up. 1. Fit winter tyres 2. Ditch the pirellis entirely for the Goodyear Eagle F1 supersport or Michelin Pilot Super sports. 3. Get one of the tuners to get the exhaust mod modification with remote control so you can open up the exhaust valves in other drive modes other than race. ☺️
@@philiphawkins4684 hiya, The fronts are not a problem, it's the wider 285/30/19 rears that are the problem. Thats why I mentioned the Goodyear F1 supersports and the Michelin Pilot super sports. Michelin only make the supersports because of an obligation to Mercedes in that size. Ps4s, they have no intention of. Some people have put wider 295 Michelin ps4s on the rear but it looks odd and looks like it's been forced to fit as the sidewalls bulge too much. ☺️
Great review, I’m 2 months into my my20 car, love the improved interior, I need the AHM exhaust mod and different tyres but aside from that love it. Alfa have just left us with a little work to do here to truly finish off the car and the mods should help a little with residuals. The wheel skip happens most mornings only on full lock then never notice it. There are things alfa could have done to make it better but we would just find other dislikes as with any car. The corsas should really come with a health warning though...
Actually back to tyres... yawn... hear me out. So I probably need to drive 1 with different tyres but is the grip that much improved on our damp/wet roads given this is a high performance rwd car, surely this is just a fact of life with cars of this configuration. I ran e90+e92 for a few years, my memory says they were more planted in all weather conditions on Michelins but different power delivery & not as fast. Maybe if I just drive better & according to conditions and my ability (I’m not a racing driver) I should be ok on the corsas... let’s see, I’m too cheap to change them now on a new car anyway.
Yup, tyre skipping effect on full lock can be annoying. One of my cars did this on full lock when reversing, which I had to do every day for manoeuvring in tight confines. It was worst on snow. And it bugged me. I did notice front tyre wear on that car was higher than I expected too. Not a sporty car, just an ordinary small hatchback with boring steering feel on its narrow tyres.
Sorry but your negative comment is the tires for winter! Good change with Pirelli sottozero and with 500 pounds you can have valve open also in Dynamics
@@sfletcher83 I’m sorry to hear that you’ve been affected. Most have TBH. The car swap might be a downsize in terms of the size of car but not in any other way. I think that’s the car that the new Golf GTI should have been. Amazing chassis and playful in a way that the GTI stopped being years ago. What’s not to love?...
Awesome vlog pete,as always the front end noise on that car,the juliet,is called chamber casting,the tyres angle to the road is out of since,basically their fighting against each other ,hey stay safe,have a great weekend,
Nice review. Concerning the issue on the steering, well it is simply the way they set the Akermann angle (maybe the priority at Alfa was not the smoothness in low speed parking maneuvers). Concerning the exhaust valves, you are right: coding is super simple :-) Honestly these is a small issues...the Quadrifoglio is a fantastic car: every time I take she it puts a smile on my face (even if it is cold and the road is wet)
...by the way, on cold and wet roads, when you go full steering, several other cars (e.g. 997 turbo and Boxster Spyder) do the same noise (this happens for a combination of the Akermann angle and the LSD engaging on the rear axle). The strange and unfair thing is that people are only complaining for the Giulia....
I love these things but I'm not sure I'd ever own one - I really wish they made a shooting brake version of this. Good to here SeenThroughGlass mention you on his podcast yesterday!
So, who woke to a blanket of snow this morning? Whereabouts are you? I'm in Sutton Bridge, Lincs and my car is still covered at 8pm this evening but the road cleared.
Wheel thing could be camber angle a bit too aggressive. Or tyres not really suitable for conditions I have this on my car but run lots of camber to help turn in. I only get this when there’s little grip on full lock or brand new tyres again on full lock always on low speed manoeuvres, once the tyres are worn into the geometry everything’s fine. I think you’re right a more suitable set of boots for winter would transform the car. Great reviews btw
You and Joe A do good, balanced reviews, always appreciated. Edit - That noise from the front end is common (in my experience) on cars with a stiff front axle. I forget what it’s called, but there is name for it and it’s where the tyres don’t have the give when they’re cold to cope with the lateral load the axle is putting through them. My Panamera did exactly the same thing, and it’s normal. It’s partly why the Alfa has such great steering feel.
Pete...wearing my old man hat, my new Ford Cortina 2000e in 1975 came with a set of Pirelli Cinturato’s and they were awful..hard as iron, no grip and heavy as lead to park. There were so bad that my mother pleaded with me to sell the car not least because it made me “....look like an old man”, However I had to carry my Dad’s wheelchair so the replacement was a 1977 Cortina 2.0 Ghia which came wearing Michelin’s and it was a transformation! So..45 years later, nothing changes!!! I’m glad you liked the Alfa...I e just never been brave enough to buy one! Stay safe..😃😃😃😃😃Richard
It will only do it when the tyres are cold, a bit of driving will be enough to stop it happening. It ever experience it in winter, but yes a all season or winter tyre will likely not do this due to the tread compound/design.
I wonder if that tyre skipping is the Giulia suspension set up? I remember reading how Alfa spent a long time with the suspension making sure when you turn the wheel the tyre contact patch remains intact. Apparently normal Cars put camber onto the wheels as you turn which obviously in the corners reduces grip. I don’t know for sure but maybe?
My 208 GTI BPS used to skip on heavy lock like that on Michelin pilot super sports in the cold, it's not a nice feeling. Stuck a set of Dunlop sport maxx rt2 and had an alignment and didn't get it again. Combination of steering geometry and tyres I reckon, I think Merc had an issue with it and their solution was to put different tyres on it (all seasons I think)
The tire issue is something I notice often when driving of on cold tires in the morning. But only on the summertires. On the Pirelli winter tire it doesn t do it. Did spin the wheels at 160 kph this week in 4th. And that was on the winter tire. So I agree it is not the ideal wintercar. As a daily I drive it 90% of the time in normal or advanced efficiency/ all weather. That can in fact be a bit frustrating. All the potential but no room to use it all that often. Has been a great car for 20000km thus far.
@@AndiSabin changed the car tot a Lexus LC500H 2 months ago, and although that only has 360hp, it spins it's tires even more. A bit damp roads and temp below 10°c you van spin in Normal. So compared the alfa gets it's power very good to the ground. Fuel consumption is way better in the Lexus and I like the look better. But miss the raw power from time to time though.
Hey Ped, I did some digging into the exhaust thing you mentioned, because I knew something was a bit off. According to other Giulia Quadrifoglio owners I talked to, the Giulia Quadrifoglio you borrowed should actually be able to keep the exhaust valves open the entire time while in dynamic mode. Next time, dig through the infotainment system and you should see it as a menu option. If that's not there, then an Alfa Service Centre should be able to help you out. The earlier Giulia Quadrifoglios didn't have that (so people got stuff like the Forza controller) but yours should have it.
That wheel issue is a strange one. Probably due to the compound of the rubber and the tread pattern? Would be interesting to see if another brand of tyre cured that issue.
You can simply upgrade your ECU with Squadra tune which gives you ability to keep your exhaust valves open while on D mode, for that fantastic exhaust note.
When the original spec was announced back in 2015 I am sure the Giulia Quad was supposed to have 4 wheel drive , the fact that the Q4 edition is not available in RHD I believe is down to the design being LHD and when producing RHD it was either to difficult or expensive to change the transmission layout. A Q4 Giulia Qf would indeed be awesome , the Giulia Qf is a flawed gem.
My PZeros are tucked up in the garage and the winter wheels and tyres are on. Even in the snow this morning there was no wheel slip away from lights and junctions. As soon as the temperature hits 8 degrees the PZeros are off.
Hi Pete, i think on the new 20 models you can open up the exhaust valves on Dynamic setting via the touch screen to give give you the sound like it's n Race mode.
I thought that was one of the enhancements for the 2020 year, I have resisted having mine chipped because I did not want it on all the time in dynamic, there are times (early hours driving) when you dont want to wake people up as you drive through their villages (at their speed limit)..
Hi Pete. The tyre scrubbing is fairly common in cold weather on certain tyres. I experience it with Michelin’s on my GT3 and spent a bit of time last year in an AMG GTR where it was disconcertingly frequent!! I wouldn’t let it deter you from the Guilia but it clearly needs some different rubber in the UK!
A TI with all the Sports pack additions would be plenty good (with the right tires!). The main thing that is a drawback here in deepest darkest Northwest Arkansas is no dealer within 200 miles :/
Message to Paul Coles..... Hi Paul. How you doing? To answer your question about the exhaust. I imported mid section exhaust from Company called Centreline in the US.... same as the chap in the You Tube video changing his own exhaust using the blocks of wood..... was a fairly straightforward process apart from I got clobbered by about £150 in import duties and tax which was a bit of a pain. Dunno whereabouts you live but I got a local Company near me called Supercar Rooms to fit it. Glad I did because after I had it fitted my car gained a really annoying vibration at certain revs so it had to go back a couple of times for them to adjust it. Anyways all sorted now and to answer your question its is very slightly louder than before in "quiet" mode, just sounds a bit better tone than before. I have kept the original rear exhaust with the controllable valve flaps and I can EITHER use it exactly as standard. So valves open all the time or over about 3,500rpm in Dynamic mode and quiet the rest of the time.... or I have a little battery fob ( bit like a garage door remotely ) where I can open or close the valves any time I like. Think I mentioned Celtic Tuning offer that plus ecu upgrade to 585bhp but to be honest you don't really need the extra horses.... plenty quick enough as standard. Celtic Tuning do offer their chips to be fitted by other Dealers but if you do make sure that whoever you get to do it has an ALFA computer system as you can bugger up your electronics otherwise. You mentioned that you won,t buy one without a test drive..... fair enough. I actually DID buy mine during lockdown ( got bored at home so bought my QF when the Missus wasn't looking.... that went well as you can imagine. Ha ha ) I had set my heart on a red car which was advertised at the time and I have seen another subscriber ( think his name is Calvin ??? ) post up on You Tube a couple of videos of that car.... Chappie selling it was such an idiot and kept messing around I gave up trying in the end and bought mine from Redline Cars up in Yorkshire. They were absolutely brilliant and offered me a fair price against my M4, which I declined initially, but their MD , Rob came back to me himself and made me an offer I couldn't really refuse, sorted out the finance, exchange and ( get this ) I bought my car and had it delivered without even seeing it first!!!!!! I had seen a couple of cars before and had really set my heart on a white one, but I HAD TO have Harman Kardon audio...... that is way better than standard audio and I really recommend that as an option. Also I was after a car with heated , standard seats and standard brakes. But I have ended up with the Sparco carbon seats which I think are about a £3,000 option and they aren't heated, so that is probably the only advantage my BM had over the Alfa as the Missus likes to be kept warm on cold mornings.... doesn't particularly bother me as car is kept in the garage at night. We also got the carbon ceramic brakes on our car which reading the forums and watching You Tube videos I didn't really want ( thought a bit overkill for the roads ) but car came with them and I must admit I think they are the best brakes of ANY car we have ever owned including Lambos, Ferraris, Porsches etc.... they are simply phenomenal.... only odd thing is they trigger hazard flashers when you really stomp on them and I haven't figured out how to stop that yet. Other things which might be of use to you? As mentioned I was really looking for a white car but now we have ours ( Competizione red ) it looks good from all sides and angles but when its a sunny day the colour really "pops" and just looks utterly gorgeous. Negatives? / Faults ? The info screen went completely blank ONCE when we were on holiday in Cornwall, which meant we lost the Sat Nav and got lost down some country lanes.... used phones to find our way back to our hotel, parked car up and left it for a while, next time, turned car back on and everything back to normal and never ever done it again, big 30,000 mile service just cost £1,150.... but that included ancillary belt and to get that off you have to drain and refill the aircon gas, and 6 spark plugs at I think about £28 each. Don't really notice much difference from before and after the Service but important for peace of mind and the all important stamp in the book. Only other very minor issue I have had was going over a speed bump ( I usually try to slow down as much as possible ) but had a bit of a "thump" underneath the car and it triggered a warning light on the dash ( engine management light ) car wouldn't change mode or suspension settings and got stuck in normal mode. Took it to Stoneacre Dealers in Wton and they reset the computer brain ( took about an hour ) said gearbox temperature sensor had gone off to trigger the fault, but they checked everything and couldn't find any fault. Been fine ever since and they didn't even charge me to fix it!!!!! Wow. No other issues of concern. Drivers side side seat bolster has got a little bit worn and the leather had a few creases on it. But sorted that with some leather balm from Autoglym and looks fine now. Be careful getting in and out that you dont catch your feet ( shoes/boots ) on the door cill as its quite wide and if you leave the seat forward it can be a bit of a squeeze getting in and out ( check out Jeremy Clarkson,s review and you will see what I mean. I,m 6'2" tall and never had any issues with that. You get used to it after a while and although the doors aren't as long as my M4 or RS5 we had they actually are easier to live with and less of a liability in supermarket car parks. Traction on Alfa ( with Michelin tyres ) is way, way better than M4, sound inside the cabin isnt too invasive, unless you want it to be. We can also fairly easily get 28-29mpg on a cruise, long trip down the Motorway or dual carriageway. Decent sized boot, four doors which for us is really user friendly so we can chuck the dog in the back without her clambering over the middle console. Best thing about owning a QF though is people let you pull out in front of them at junctions, other Alfa owners smile and wave and the number of times I get a "Nice car mate" comment is really great, even from the younger generation.... think they seen one on 6-Underground film or something..... but they have dubbed the wrong engine sound on there for some reason. Anyways. Enough of me prattling on for now. But my advice.... Don,t buy a 2020 car because sooner or later with the touchscreen you will scratch it and if you REALLY need the driver assistance, lane assistance, collision assistance, Apple car play and the rest of the bollox you really shouldn't be buying one of these anyway!!! Ha ha. I just pick a radio channel or spotify I can Bluetooth into the audio and leave it. Really cannot be arsed fiddling around with 1,000 different settings. Had that on the BM and cant see the point. Choose your colour and spec ( get the HK audio ) and go and buy one. You wont regret it. ONLY very minor point is the ride height on certain year cars can be a,little bit higher than others, not sure if they change the springs or suspension settings or something??? I got the classic telephone dial wheels on mine with the massive carbon brakes on and it just looks mean.... but sometimes they ride a,bit high and a big gap between top of the wheels and the wheel arches. Cheers Regards Rog
I used to find that problem in my BMW M140i. I came up with a theory, when the wheels are turned full lock they also tilt a lot too, kind of leaning into the corner if you get me, then obviously the contact patch is a lot smaller too.. Mercs do it a lot too. I think that’s the issue!
My Hyundai i30 N does the same when the tyres are cold P zero's also . I thought it was something more serious going on. A friend's Mercedes AMG does the same .
Ironically the reason putting new tyres on gets rid of the noise is solely down to the fact that they have less surface grip . Once your new tyres wear down you will find the effect will return on a dry surface
@@SteveClarkColorado I guess it’s not everyone’s cup of tea . It’s a result of the Giulia Quadrifoglio being developed first as a high performance car . The rest of the lower range came after where as most manufacturers tend to make a base model first and then develop that into a high performance car after . Either way there’s compromises .
@@155andRising It's not a huge concern, seems it's well covered as the Ackermann effect. As long as there is nothing wrong with the car, it doesnt matter. Is that your Misano Blue Quad? Mine's a 2018 Misano Blue - love it!
Working for a performance manufacturer, I can confirm the front wheels skipping is normal in low grip situations and is caused by the front geometry (including Ackerman principle plus camber change) that can be worse with rear wheel drive pushing when on full lock. It is nothing to worry about and can sometimes be improved with different tyres. Don't let it put you off buying the car🤔 Another great vid when you were clearly cold and tyred (get it!) 👍
I see what you did there 😂
Hi Pete, the steering angle has been mentioned by others. I used full winters on mine and the noise went, my confidence increased and race mode was easily available. Then when the weather improved I put the PZero’s back on. I never thought it needed 4x4, being able to use the power through the rear is more fun (with the right tyres!) It is an incredible car and way more individual than any of its competitors. Keep up the great work 🥇
Do you own one ?
Another Italian masterpiece!
Over 6 years of watching reviews about this car and the stelvio.. If i had to pic one.. It would be the giulia.. Over all the q4 from the stelvio for All year driving.. The giulia is the sportier and more authentic sportscar.. The true one.. Even its not so safe for winter.. Its the peak point of drivers car..! Thanks for your honest review!
I love the design of the Giulia. I think it's really by far the best looking sport sedan on the market.
I understand that you have to be very careful when it's wet or very cold with summer tyres. But the driving experience, steering, sound, are unique.
Peter you have never given a review that wasn`t honest, its not in your nature, its how your parents brought you up, and it is what we expect and receive every time. The thumping noise when it appears may be something to do with the power steering trying to cope with the cold but I can`t say for sure, so thank you once again for showing us your work and the car, so see you on the next one.
You seem to get massively hung up on summer tyres and traction on a high power rwd car in the winter......
I’m running Goodyear Supersport tyres on mine and the traction for a powerful rwd car is ridiculously good. That torque vectoring differential is excellent. It puts my previous high power rwd cars to shame (F82 M4, E92 M3 etc)
I agree the exhaust thing is silly from AR, but it’s like £300 to have rectified by various aftermarket companies....not exactly a big deal is it.
The tyres skipping is down to akerman geometry, it does it on various other cars like the cayman, TT etc. Just a small trade off for the better steering.
Buy one, fit PS4S or GY SS tyres and fit the exhaust module. Job done ✅
Seriously. It was late and I was tired when I watched this and I actually got mad and knew I had to turn in at that point. Half the video complaining about the tires is like getting a shiny new phone and then complaining about the case. Change the case! You should be complaining to whomever loaned the car with a poor tire choice for regional conditions. Anyway, otherwise, I really like this guy.
Agreed fitted goodyear supersports the traction even in freezing condtions perfect. also remapped and flaps opened in D mode
@@johncanning8347 same here, 600bhp is nice too 😋
A PlayStation4 won't help...duhhh!
@stephen longfield
I love your comment, perfectly explained! Thank you, and wish you lots of happy moments with your QV, hopefully I'm gonna join soon the club! All the best!
I think the solution to your problems (except the ackerman) is the Giulia Veloce Q4... AWD and a much more manageable 280hp. I have one and is a marble. Great to go on the mountains on those cold wet days. Still faster than 95% of what you found on the normal roads. Only just not that track focused. And you can get it with full camel colored leather... You don't get the V6 sound but you don't get the MPG either.
As many others have said, the "wheel skipping" on full lock is to do with the front wheel geometry. My 981 gen Cayman GTS does the same when cold. Gets better as the tires warm up. Had P-zeros on the Porsche.
All my porches do this. 996tt, 970 and 981.
I’m surprised as a car journalist you haven’t come across Ackerman geometry before but there you go every days a school day hey 😁
He is NOT a car journalist! He is a Left wing covid supporter, a traitor!
Oh yes 👍
@@PetrolPed Champagne socialist!
Yo PP, MY 2020 allows opening of the exhaust flap in D mode. Check it out next time you drive one. Also, changing out tires is not really a hardship for a car at this price point. You really want one...I can tell!
Came from Mercedes to the Guilia. Very noticeable the geometry difference. Alfa says it's to increase grip when cornering?
I wouldn’t regard the characteristics you referred to as “flaws”.
More so a consequence of tyre choice, ambient temperature and sketchy road surface conditions when combined with a car which can be provoked to oversteer.
I moved my Pirelli P Zero tyres into storage a long time ago Only use Goodyear F1 Eagle Super Sport for most months in the UK.
And now Alfa have changed the front suspension to reduce wheel skipping at low speeds and completely ruined the steering! 2021 car has lost it's edge compared to the 2017 one I have just replaced. What were they thinking!? Wheel skip was not a problem once the P Zero Corsa Tyres were removed from the old one.
What year did they change the geometry?
@@NeuKrofta if in UK it's after the 69 Plate, maybe with some exceptions due to late registration. Basically if it is a 2020 spec facelift car with the different rear lights etc it has the later setup. All confirmed by the Alfa parts cat.
Rear wheel drive is where it’s at for me, you can’t beat the feel in my opinion. Get one change the tyres and enjoy.
Correction: former owner of one of these cars. I had a 17 model. You say that exhaust valves only open in race. That was true for pre 20 models but in 20 models you can open the valves in dynamic via the infotainment system - car settings.
I'll be buying the 20 model soon for sure. Best road car I have driven!
👍
I'm north of Milan and on my Giulia 2.0 200HP I have 4 winter tyres now. I can't imagine how could it be with a QV up there now! Yes, DEFINITIVELY put winter tyres!
That "wheel thing" is due to geometry of front suspension. To have that sharp steering and adherence you have to deal with that. No problem if you ask me. There is even an official bulletin that explain why it happens.
The problem with the wheels skipping over the tarmac is called the Ackerman effect. Porsche and Maserati got the Same „Problem“ when it’s getting cold outside.
The Alfa is just a real dream car. Loved the video
Absolutely this! My Macan does it and my old C43 was so bad I had to get rid of it.
Yup my 997 does it. Not all the time though 🤷♂️
The 2021 models can access the exhaust notes, without being in Race mode, is my understanding. Please give those dogs a scratch from me and a hug, so cute.
Lived in Europe for 15 years. There is a simple solution. Winter tyres. What you are talking about is not an issue when you have summer and winter rubber.
Yep 👍
In Canada, the difference between winter and summer tyres is... death!
I put Michelin Alpins on mine every winter and that makes it perfect. Fabulous car. Now had mine 3 years and absolutely no plans to
Change it. Longest car I’ve ever kept.
Good plan 👍
Just swap the Pirellis out for some MPS4Ss, or some Goodyear F1s. It's not hard. Also helps to alleviate the impact of the Ackerman geometry at slow speed and full lock. You can also get a very cheap mod to manually control the exhaust valves.
Awesome 👏
Pete you need to read about ackerman angle effect on front wheels
Exactly
Yep. Had it on my Cayman. You get used to it but it's a nasty surprise the first time it happens to you.
My Mercedes does it, it's 100% the Ackerman effect.
@@stevecade857 Porsche are especially renowned for it.
That’s it. I’ve had many Alfas do this - my current Stelvio Milano does it. Usually much worse in reverse. The pay off is the wheels are as near to 90 degrees with the road.
I think RUclipsrs need to do start doing some research in the items or topics they are making video's on. So much bad information and rumors are being posted on the internet. Example: Driving on Summer performance tires in winter in -2 temps and complaining about the rear tires sliding or the Ackerman angle effect. A simple google search would have giving you all of the answers. Now a person who doesn't know much about cars will view this video and think Alfa's has some serious problems. This is the reason why all car manufactures have "dumbed down" cars. Great example is the M3.
just chill with your right foot and no more backend issues. also, Michelin SS FTW
Absolutely love these videos where we see a bit of a week in the life of ped whilst living with a car. Great follow ups to the first drive videos.
So I went ahead and bought my dream car: a Giulia Quadrifoglio. Had exactly the same issue: the skidding and not-so-grippy corsa’s in the wet. Put some Sottozero tyres on it for the winter (yes, 500 RW bhp needs winter tyres) and voilà, car transformed! No more skidding front wheels and more accessible performance.
It just puts a smile on my face... what a machine! 🥰
Awesome 👏
I’ve had a Quadrifoglio for 2 years on the P Zero Corsa, now I’m on Pilot 4S and the car is transformed. No more tyre skip turning out of the drive every morning or white knuckled driving on a cold wet day waiting for the rear end to step out. Best upgrade ever, except maybe for the Forza exhaust bypass for Race sound in every mode!
I can imagine 👌
It’s the angle of the front wheels, my Cayman and Audi TT does it when cold on lock until the tires heat up
Yeh, my Cayman did as well, my Current BMW will do it as well on full lock in cold.
I have it too with my Giulietta in cold weather especially with summer tyres, now with winter tyres it's less. I think that is fully normal
When a car looks that beautiful I could probably forgive it anything. Stunning piece of art work.
My Wife has a white veloce and honestly, it’s pushing it’s luck. As is the dealership...
It really is. I’ve had no issues with mine
@@H2TEN Glad your experience is better than ours. I hope when the dealership bring it back things improve.
I had a Veloce. Beautiful, best handling car ever. Non stop issues, handed back to the lease company early. Would I have another? In a heartbeat, just for the driving experience, they might get one more chance.
The steering skipping is probably caused by the geometry that makes it feel so sharp at other times. Fix the skipping and you'll lose the feel.
My '14 Boxter S 981 and '08 Z4M do the same in wet. However, Boxter S skips like crazy. I guess there is not enough give in bushings. Definitely, a good thing I would say.
Just cold tyres. Just happens alot with tyres with radial tread grooves.
Brilliant masterpiece of Gulia.....Alfa Romeo back on song!👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
2020-2021 models have an option from factory you can order to have the valves open in dynamic . Or have it installed aftermarket .
Michelins 4s are the better everyday option for the car. The wheel thing is the tire , it does not do it with other tires . It is the rubber blocks of the Pirelli tire.
The wheel skipping is quite common on many cars with the wheel alignment set up for handling primarily. I had an A45 that done this regularly.
The recent ackermann angle modification has solved the issue. On my Giulia 180 CV I have the same issue, usually when temperature is less than 15°C. When I fit the wither tyres, the problem disappear in any condition.However, when you have driven for some km, even if it is very cold, the problem does not appear also with summer tyres.
The noise is tyres, my BMW does it in reverse, just the tread jumping due to the 'scrub radius' of the front wheels. Only happens in the cold when the tyres compound is hard.
Same on my 4 series - changed from run flats to Michelin Pilot Sport 4s and the issue is resolved
It doesn’t do the tire skippy thing with a fresh pair of Arroyo Grand Sport A-S tires on the front. They work much better in general as well.
I love mine and have made two mods that answer your main criticisms. Fit Michelin Pilot Sport 2s in the standard sizes, the Pirellis are too track orientated and need some heat. Brings everything back under control and significantly reduces the low speed slip on lock. They drive just as well as the Pirellis, possibly even better. Fit the exhaust flap controller from AH Motorsport, this allows the exhaust to be open in eco and normal so you can enjoy the exhaust all the time!
ruclips.net/video/kajTSw61Z3k/видео.html👍🏻
Perfect 👍
If you are an owner, love the car and are concerned about safety, then put winter tyres on it when conditions start to deteriorate. Once summer comes refit the Pirelli’s.
The car is absolutely beautiful
True, but you can't see the beautiful body lines in the black color.
Lovely car. An honest opinion is the best thing that you can give to us. We are all different and unless we get the chance to drive one a petrol heads view is the best we have.
+Petrol Ped I own stelvio Q, and I also get that tyre sound if I am late to switch summer tyres to winter tyres. It is due to the fact that wheels go flat when you steer, so summer tyres will skip on full steer if too cold. I don't know about UK, but in my country, it is illegal to drive summer tyres from November 1 until April 1. Also, this flat wheel position on steering is the main ingredient for such a sharp and lovely steering, so the solution is to drive proper tyres for the season :)
The tyre wall is folding under its self on lock. Look at RUclips clips regarding Mercedes GLC Tyres scrubbing. Some guys recorded with the camera showing the tyre wall folding under itself then scrubbing back to its natural position. I used to get on my CLA45 during cold mornings until I got some heat in the tyres, but to be honest I thought it was just a four wheel drive issue.
Had the same issues with the ackerman steering on my diesel Giulia but it did get a lot better with new front tyres fitted. The steering is the same, super sharp and very direct making it a joy to drive down back roads. The handling and long distance ride comfort are exceptionally good, just a shame even the "basic" petrol model is so expensive now. A used Quadrifoglio will surely be a fantastic buy knowing Alfa's typical depreciation.
I know this is an old video. The issue you describe is called tyre skip. Certain Mercedes vehicles suffered with it during cold weather as well. Mercedes used to offer under warranty to replace the tyres with all weather tyres.
The wheels skipping are perfectly normal. It happens to many cars when you have the wrong tyres. When the rubber is too hard they scrubs across the surface of the road especially when the tyres are really wide or there is a high turn angle.
Tire Rub.....someone here in the US found that the tires were rubbing on the front inner fender liners, where the louvers are. Maybe a little judicious heat gun to the effected area would help shape the area better.
I have owned 3 of the Guilia Quadrifoglio had no problems with any of the three. I have now a Stelvio Quadrifoglio which is absolutely stonking.
Also, Dynamic allows the exhaust valves to open fully after 3500 rpm. A software mod will allow this to replicate race, full on.
The exhaust valve opening in Race only mode can be overwritten in the software so it's possible to change in Dynamic too. The front wheels under full lock are not parallel to each other but they are parallel to the circle they are steering in, consequently they are fighting each other under full lock.
As others have suggested this is the "Ackerman" geometry at it's worst.
Thanks 🙏🏻
Yes Ackerman angle. They all do it. I recently acquired a Veloce and it does the same (most noticeable reversing). Great cars. I considered the QF but 500 bhp just too much in a road car to fully enjoy. Haven’t regretted it for a minute. The steering on Giulia’s really is something quite special. So direct.
If I remember correctly, when you turn the steering wheel the outside road wheel turns into the corner more than the inside wheel (or possibly vice versa). I suspect when the tyres are warm this difference in tracking is accommodated by the tyres, however, when you are driving on unsuitable tyres on a cold slippery road surface, the inside tyre will skip laterally, causing the vibration you heard.
If that were my car, I would take it in to have the tracking checked and, if it was within tolerance, I wouldn't worry about it. In any case, suitable tyres would be a benefit.
Evening all! How’s everyone doing?
Good evening, I'm very well thanks, how are you doing?
@@benrochford8769 Good thanks
Doing ok but extremely tired
Very well thanks François. Hope you're looking forward to the weekend.
@@GenaF Yeah, the GP is going to be great. Hope George Russell gets his first win and points!
That noise from the front appears to be damn cold tired which are kinda understeering in low speed. They just "rub" on the tarmac. I had this on several cars, mostly on 4WD cars like an Audi R8. Guess it is a steering ratio issue or maybe even wheel alignment like toe-in.
The Guilia is a stunning looking car but it hardly has any competition in its class for looks. Alfa are my favourite brand in this field, owned a few over the years and despite people warning me of the trouble I was going to have it was always them left eating their words, never had a moments problem with any of them and this all despite putting huge mileage on some of them in short periods of time. The steering judder you experienced used to happen in my 159 and it also happens from time to time in my AM Vantage and I always put it down to Ackerman angles as I reasearched it before. Its odd the first time you experience it and almost feels as though the tyres are skipping.
Great review and honest review Pete, there isn't a car that doesn't have its foibles.
Very true 👍
Great review Pete, I had Michelin Pilot 4S and they were awesome even in temps below zero, even drove in snow on them in my 640D MSport Gran Coupe!! Alfa is just a little too small for me, and M760li is definite next one for me, which I reckon will be a bit of fun!!
My wife's car makes that noise in a damp multi story car park on the tight corners. I think it is the amount of camber on the front wheels on full lock, resulting in only a small patch of tyre properly on the road and with tyres that go hard when its cold, they just skip sideways a fraction on the road. I hate it too and it sounds and feels pretty brutal.
So in summary, 3 points raised are it needs winter tyres in winter - my 640d also needs this, not really the cars fault and this is even more powerful still. Ackerman geometry causes the skip and it needs an exhaust flap setting. Can't believe Alfa haven't sorted the third point for MY2020, people have been saying this since it launched.
Reminds me of the Alfa 164 from the 1980s which was, reportedly, like a large hot hatch to drive. I normally prefer small hatchbacks over large high end saloons but this Alfa is a thing of beauty and sounds fantastic.
Pete, you gave this a decent review. That being said, the solution to 90% of the issues you kept harping about was a simple installation of winter tires for the car in cold climates. I live in California with my 2019 Giulia Veloce, and I have summer P Zero's on it. I have no issues. I never get the problem with the steering noises either, but it rarely drops below 40F here even at night in winter. So, those Corsa Pirelli's are not for U.K. conditions in winter. Or Minnesota in the USA either! ha ha Otherwise, these Giulia models are terrific cars with so many things that make them special. I call it my Jr. Ferrari Sedan! ha ha Cheers friend.
The wheels skipping on full luck is normal and loads of cars with wide low profile tyres do it. My Jag XF and FType both did it in cold weather.
Most rear wheel drive performance cars have a geometry set up that causes the tyre skip at the front.
Also you can buy a box that can switch the exhaust flaps in all driving modes.
Thanks 🙏🏻
Locking and skipping is a combination of low tyre grip when cold/wet, aggressive differential and geo.
My Reno RS280 Cup with the optional LSD does the same as do 2 Audi S4 with Sports Diff option that I've driven.
I would like to see a review on the Alfa Romeo Quadrifoglio GTA/GTA M and how it compares to the standard car.
Pretty sure the skipping wheels is the Ackermann effect. Happens on pretty much all modern Porsches and nowadays anything with a big enough wheel! I remember following up on it for my 987.2 when in for a service
Great to see a review like this for the Giulia. I’ve got the Veloce and get the tyre noise too. It’s the only car I’ve ever had that does this and it’s good to know it’s normal, thankyou for showing this. Alfa ownership in the U.K. is not much fun when you need to go to the main dealer, but the car is good enough to put up with this. I can’t find a better alternative as a daily car. 👍
Pete, My car is on Michelin alpin 4 winter tyres and you won't believe how this transforms the car even in race mode with so much more grip in all settings. For me it's a must to have winter tyres for this car. It totally gets rid of skippy from the front wheels too at low speeds which is the Ackermann steering effect and affects other makes too. . The Pirellis really have such a small operating window for the uk I don't know why Alfa fit them. Lots of people ditch them for a better all rounder.
So to sum up.
1. Fit winter tyres
2. Ditch the pirellis entirely for the Goodyear Eagle F1 supersport or Michelin Pilot Super sports.
3. Get one of the tuners to get the exhaust mod modification with remote control so you can open up the exhaust valves in other drive modes other than race.
☺️
You don't need full winters in most of the UK.. A decent Michelin MP4s or Goodyear assymetric 5 would be better than the pirelli that was fitted.
@@philiphawkins4684 neither of the tyres you mentioned are made in the correct size.
Sounds like a plan 👌😜
@@azamchaudhri your joking. What tyre size do these run?
@@philiphawkins4684 hiya, The fronts are not a problem, it's the wider 285/30/19 rears that are the problem. Thats why I mentioned the Goodyear F1 supersports and the Michelin Pilot super sports. Michelin only make the supersports because of an obligation to Mercedes in that size. Ps4s, they have no intention of. Some people have put wider 295 Michelin ps4s on the rear but it looks odd and looks like it's been forced to fit as the sidewalls bulge too much.
☺️
Maybe you should have changed from N mode (Natural) to A mode (Advanced Efficiency/All Weather) for improved safety in cold environment.
Yes. Probably 👍
Great review, I’m 2 months into my my20 car, love the improved interior, I need the AHM exhaust mod and different tyres but aside from that love it. Alfa have just left us with a little work to do here to truly finish off the car and the mods should help a little with residuals. The wheel skip happens most mornings only on full lock then never notice it. There are things alfa could have done to make it better but we would just find other dislikes as with any car. The corsas should really come with a health warning though...
LOL. They certainly are a bit sketchy 😂
Actually back to tyres... yawn... hear me out. So I probably need to drive 1 with different tyres but is the grip that much improved on our damp/wet roads given this is a high performance rwd car, surely this is just a fact of life with cars of this configuration. I ran e90+e92 for a few years, my memory says they were more planted in all weather conditions on Michelins but different power delivery & not as fast. Maybe if I just drive better & according to conditions and my ability (I’m not a racing driver) I should be ok on the corsas... let’s see, I’m too cheap to change them now on a new car anyway.
Yup, tyre skipping effect on full lock can be annoying. One of my cars did this on full lock when reversing, which I had to do every day for manoeuvring in tight confines. It was worst on snow. And it bugged me. I did notice front tyre wear on that car was higher than I expected too. Not a sporty car, just an ordinary small hatchback with boring steering feel on its narrow tyres.
Sorry but your negative comment is the tires for winter! Good change with Pirelli sottozero and with 500 pounds you can have valve open also in Dynamics
This is timely Ped. I’m on the hunt for my perfect Giulia QF. Lots out there but want one that’s a bit different. Wish me luck..
Take a look at Sytner BMW Coventry - my old one's up for sale there (Misano Blue). It was well looked after.
@@sfletcher83 cheers and will do. Did you trade it in for an M3/4?
Buy one you won’t be disappointed
@@paulcoles3265 no, I work in an industry that's been hit hard by Covid, so I downsized to a new m135i to reduce my outgoings / risk.
@@sfletcher83 I’m sorry to hear that you’ve been affected. Most have TBH. The car swap might be a downsize in terms of the size of car but not in any other way. I think that’s the car that the new Golf GTI should have been. Amazing chassis and playful in a way that the GTI stopped being years ago. What’s not to love?...
Awesome vlog pete,as always the front end noise on that car,the juliet,is called chamber casting,the tyres angle to the road is out of since,basically their fighting against each other ,hey stay safe,have a great weekend,
Nice review. Concerning the issue on the steering, well it is simply the way they set the Akermann angle (maybe the priority at Alfa was not the smoothness in low speed parking maneuvers). Concerning the exhaust valves, you are right: coding is super simple :-) Honestly these is a small issues...the Quadrifoglio is a fantastic car: every time I take she it puts a smile on my face (even if it is cold and the road is wet)
...by the way, on cold and wet roads, when you go full steering, several other cars (e.g. 997 turbo and Boxster Spyder) do the same noise (this happens for a combination of the Akermann angle and the LSD engaging on the rear axle).
The strange and unfair thing is that people are only complaining for the Giulia....
No idea why the ackerman effect on the steering would put you off, back to school Mr Ped!
I love these things but I'm not sure I'd ever own one - I really wish they made a shooting brake version of this. Good to here SeenThroughGlass mention you on his podcast yesterday!
Why not?
I need to check that out 👍
So, who woke to a blanket of snow this morning? Whereabouts are you?
I'm in Sutton Bridge, Lincs and my car is still covered at 8pm this evening but the road cleared.
When I fitted new Michelan pilot sport 4s tires, the front tire scrubbing completely stopped
Wheel thing could be camber angle a bit too aggressive. Or tyres not really suitable for conditions
I have this on my car but run lots of camber to help turn in. I only get this when there’s little grip on full lock or brand new tyres again on full lock always on low speed manoeuvres, once the tyres are worn into the geometry everything’s fine.
I think you’re right a more suitable set of boots for winter would transform the car.
Great reviews btw
You and Joe A do good, balanced reviews, always appreciated.
Edit - That noise from the front end is common (in my experience) on cars with a stiff front axle. I forget what it’s called, but there is name for it and it’s where the tyres don’t have the give when they’re cold to cope with the lateral load the axle is putting through them. My Panamera did exactly the same thing, and it’s normal. It’s partly why the Alfa has such great steering feel.
Yep, you are spot on. I have since learned it’s called the Akerman effect 👍
Pete...wearing my old man hat, my new Ford Cortina 2000e in 1975 came with a set of Pirelli Cinturato’s and they were awful..hard as iron, no grip and heavy as lead to park. There were so bad that my mother pleaded with me to sell the car not least because it made me “....look like an old man”, However I had to carry my Dad’s wheelchair so the replacement was a 1977 Cortina 2.0 Ghia which came wearing Michelin’s and it was a transformation! So..45 years later, nothing changes!!! I’m glad you liked the Alfa...I e just never been brave enough to buy one! Stay safe..😃😃😃😃😃Richard
My Merc C43 did the tyre skip thing and Mercedes said the fix was to put all-season or winter tyres on it. My Macan S even does it sometimes.
It will only do it when the tyres are cold, a bit of driving will be enough to stop it happening. It ever experience it in winter, but yes a all season or winter tyre will likely not do this due to the tread compound/design.
I wonder if that tyre skipping is the Giulia suspension set up? I remember reading how Alfa spent a long time with the suspension making sure when you turn the wheel the tyre contact patch remains intact. Apparently normal Cars put camber onto the wheels as you turn which obviously in the corners reduces grip. I don’t know for sure but maybe?
My 208 GTI BPS used to skip on heavy lock like that on Michelin pilot super sports in the cold, it's not a nice feeling. Stuck a set of Dunlop sport maxx rt2 and had an alignment and didn't get it again. Combination of steering geometry and tyres I reckon, I think Merc had an issue with it and their solution was to put different tyres on it (all seasons I think)
The tire issue is something I notice often when driving of on cold tires in the morning. But only on the summertires. On the Pirelli winter tire it doesn t do it. Did spin the wheels at 160 kph this week in 4th. And that was on the winter tire. So I agree it is not the ideal wintercar. As a daily I drive it 90% of the time in normal or advanced efficiency/ all weather. That can in fact be a bit frustrating. All the potential but no room to use it all that often. Has been a great car for 20000km thus far.
@@AndiSabin changed the car tot a Lexus LC500H 2 months ago, and although that only has 360hp, it spins it's tires even more. A bit damp roads and temp below 10°c you van spin in Normal. So compared the alfa gets it's power very good to the ground. Fuel consumption is way better in the Lexus and I like the look better. But miss the raw power from time to time though.
Appreciate the honesty Pete. Refreshing as I notice less and less reviewers are. 👍🏽
I try hard to be balanced 👍
Hey Ped, I did some digging into the exhaust thing you mentioned, because I knew something was a bit off.
According to other Giulia Quadrifoglio owners I talked to, the Giulia Quadrifoglio you borrowed should actually be able to keep the exhaust valves open the entire time while in dynamic mode. Next time, dig through the infotainment system and you should see it as a menu option. If that's not there, then an Alfa Service Centre should be able to help you out. The earlier Giulia Quadrifoglios didn't have that (so people got stuff like the Forza controller) but yours should have it.
Thanks for this mate 👍
That wheel issue is a strange one. Probably due to the compound of the rubber and the tread pattern? Would be interesting to see if another brand of tyre cured that issue.
You can simply upgrade your ECU with Squadra tune which gives you ability to keep your exhaust valves open while on D mode, for that fantastic exhaust note.
Got to finish the video and fantastic review Sir Pete! Loved the honesty. The steering thing would definitely turn me off from the car though!
Cheers Bud 👍
When the original spec was announced back in 2015 I am sure the Giulia Quad was supposed to have 4 wheel drive , the fact that the Q4 edition is not available in RHD I believe is down to the design being LHD and when producing RHD it was either to difficult or expensive to change the transmission layout. A Q4 Giulia Qf would indeed be awesome , the Giulia Qf is a flawed gem.
My PZeros are tucked up in the garage and the winter wheels and tyres are on. Even in the snow this morning there was no wheel slip away from lights and junctions. As soon as the temperature hits 8 degrees the PZeros are off.
Yep 👍
Hi Pete, i think on the new 20 models you can open up the exhaust valves on Dynamic setting via the touch screen to give give you the sound like it's n Race mode.
You may well be right but I didn’t find it 😬
I thought that was one of the enhancements for the 2020 year, I have resisted having mine chipped because I did not want it on all the time in dynamic, there are times (early hours driving) when you dont want to wake people up as you drive through their villages (at their speed limit)..
Hi Pete. The tyre scrubbing is fairly common in cold weather on certain tyres. I experience it with Michelin’s on my GT3 and spent a bit of time last year in an AMG GTR where it was disconcertingly frequent!! I wouldn’t let it deter you from the Guilia but it clearly needs some different rubber in the UK!
The noise you mention in the front suspension should be sorted on the new 2020 model, its the Ackerman angle suspension hop I think you referring too
Just caused by cold tyres..
This was the 2020 model 🤷♂️
A TI with all the Sports pack additions would be plenty good (with the right tires!). The main thing that is a drawback here in deepest darkest Northwest Arkansas is no dealer within 200 miles :/
Message to Paul Coles..... Hi Paul. How you doing? To answer your question about the exhaust. I imported mid section exhaust from Company called Centreline in the US.... same as the chap in the You Tube video changing his own exhaust using the blocks of wood..... was a fairly straightforward process apart from I got clobbered by about £150 in import duties and tax which was a bit of a pain.
Dunno whereabouts you live but I got a local Company near me called Supercar Rooms to fit it. Glad I did because after I had it fitted my car gained a really annoying vibration at certain revs so it had to go back a couple of times for them to adjust it. Anyways all sorted now and to answer your question its is very slightly louder than before in "quiet" mode, just sounds a bit better tone than before. I have kept the original rear exhaust with the controllable valve flaps and I can EITHER use it exactly as standard. So valves open all the time or over about 3,500rpm in Dynamic mode and quiet the rest of the time.... or I have a little battery fob ( bit like a garage door remotely ) where I can open or close the valves any time I like.
Think I mentioned Celtic Tuning offer that plus ecu upgrade to 585bhp but to be honest you don't really need the extra horses.... plenty quick enough as standard.
Celtic Tuning do offer their chips to be fitted by other Dealers but if you do make sure that whoever you get to do it has an ALFA computer system as you can bugger up your electronics otherwise.
You mentioned that you won,t buy one without a test drive..... fair enough. I actually DID buy mine during lockdown ( got bored at home so bought my QF when the Missus wasn't looking.... that went well as you can imagine. Ha ha )
I had set my heart on a red car which was advertised at the time and I have seen another subscriber ( think his name is Calvin ??? ) post up on You Tube a couple of videos of that car....
Chappie selling it was such an idiot and kept messing around I gave up trying in the end and bought mine from Redline Cars up in Yorkshire. They were absolutely brilliant and offered me a fair price against my M4, which I declined initially, but their MD , Rob came back to me himself and made me an offer I couldn't really refuse, sorted out the finance, exchange and ( get this ) I bought my car and had it delivered without even seeing it first!!!!!!
I had seen a couple of cars before and had really set my heart on a white one, but I HAD TO have Harman Kardon audio...... that is way better than standard audio and I really recommend that as an option.
Also I was after a car with heated , standard seats and standard brakes. But I have ended up with the Sparco carbon seats which I think are about a £3,000 option and they aren't heated, so that is probably the only advantage my BM had over the Alfa as the Missus likes to be kept warm on cold mornings.... doesn't particularly bother me as car is kept in the garage at night.
We also got the carbon ceramic brakes on our car which reading the forums and watching You Tube videos I didn't really want ( thought a bit overkill for the roads ) but car came with them and I must admit I think they are the best brakes of ANY car we have ever owned including Lambos, Ferraris, Porsches etc.... they are simply phenomenal.... only odd thing is they trigger hazard flashers when you really stomp on them and I haven't figured out how to stop that yet.
Other things which might be of use to you? As mentioned I was really looking for a white car but now we have ours ( Competizione red ) it looks good from all sides and angles but when its a sunny day the colour really "pops" and just looks utterly gorgeous.
Negatives? / Faults ? The info screen went completely blank ONCE when we were on holiday in Cornwall, which meant we lost the Sat Nav and got lost down some country lanes.... used phones to find our way back to our hotel, parked car up and left it for a while, next time, turned car back on and everything back to normal and never ever done it again, big 30,000 mile service just cost £1,150.... but that included ancillary belt and to get that off you have to drain and refill the aircon gas, and 6 spark plugs at I think about £28 each.
Don't really notice much difference from before and after the Service but important for peace of mind and the all important stamp in the book.
Only other very minor issue I have had was going over a speed bump ( I usually try to slow down as much as possible ) but had a bit of a "thump" underneath the car and it triggered a warning light on the dash ( engine management light ) car wouldn't change mode or suspension settings and got stuck in normal mode.
Took it to Stoneacre Dealers in Wton and they reset the computer brain ( took about an hour ) said gearbox temperature sensor had gone off to trigger the fault, but they checked everything and couldn't find any fault. Been fine ever since and they didn't even charge me to fix it!!!!! Wow.
No other issues of concern. Drivers side side seat bolster has got a little bit worn and the leather had a few creases on it. But sorted that with some leather balm from Autoglym and looks fine now.
Be careful getting in and out that you dont catch your feet ( shoes/boots ) on the door cill as its quite wide and if you leave the seat forward it can be a bit of a squeeze getting in and out ( check out Jeremy Clarkson,s review and you will see what I mean. I,m 6'2" tall and never had any issues with that. You get used to it after a while and although the doors aren't as long as my M4 or RS5 we had they actually are easier to live with and less of a liability in supermarket car parks.
Traction on Alfa ( with Michelin tyres ) is way, way better than M4, sound inside the cabin isnt too invasive, unless you want it to be. We can also fairly easily get 28-29mpg on a cruise, long trip down the Motorway or dual carriageway. Decent sized boot, four doors which for us is really user friendly so we can chuck the dog in the back without her clambering over the middle console.
Best thing about owning a QF though is people let you pull out in front of them at junctions, other Alfa owners smile and wave and the number of times I get a "Nice car mate" comment is really great, even from the younger generation.... think they seen one on 6-Underground film or something..... but they have dubbed the wrong engine sound on there for some reason.
Anyways. Enough of me prattling on for now.
But my advice.... Don,t buy a 2020 car because sooner or later with the touchscreen you will scratch it and if you REALLY need the driver assistance, lane assistance, collision assistance, Apple car play and the rest of the bollox you really shouldn't be buying one of these anyway!!! Ha ha.
I just pick a radio channel or spotify I can Bluetooth into the audio and leave it. Really cannot be arsed fiddling around with 1,000 different settings. Had that on the BM and cant see the point.
Choose your colour and spec ( get the HK audio ) and go and buy one. You wont regret it.
ONLY very minor point is the ride height on certain year cars can be a,little bit higher than others, not sure if they change the springs or suspension settings or something??? I got the classic telephone dial wheels on mine with the massive carbon brakes on and it just looks mean.... but sometimes they ride a,bit high and a big gap between top of the wheels and the wheel arches.
Cheers
Regards
Rog
I used to find that problem in my BMW M140i. I came up with a theory, when the wheels are turned full lock they also tilt a lot too, kind of leaning into the corner if you get me, then obviously the contact patch is a lot smaller too.. Mercs do it a lot too. I think that’s the issue!
My Hyundai i30 N does the same when the tyres are cold P zero's also . I thought it was something more serious going on. A friend's Mercedes AMG does the same .
The tire clunking noise, yes, it's known. It almost existent once I switched from the OEM Pirellis to Michelin PS4S's.
Ironically the reason putting new tyres on gets rid of the noise is solely down to the fact that they have less surface grip . Once your new tyres wear down you will find the effect will return on a dry surface
@@155andRising well crap, I hope you're wrong :)
@@SteveClarkColorado I guess it’s not everyone’s cup of tea . It’s a result of the Giulia Quadrifoglio being developed first as a high performance car . The rest of the lower range came after where as most manufacturers tend to make a base model first and then develop that into a high performance car after . Either way there’s compromises .
@@155andRising It's not a huge concern, seems it's well covered as the Ackermann effect. As long as there is nothing wrong with the car, it doesnt matter. Is that your Misano Blue Quad? Mine's a 2018 Misano Blue - love it!
@@SteveClarkColorado yes it’s a Veloce not a QV but I love it all the same . I think it’s the best colour all day long 😁 💙
You can buy a box that opens and closes the exhaust flaps in the mufflers.