There's a CHILLING New OS X For PowerPC Macs!
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- Опубликовано: 10 дек 2021
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Today we're exploring a brand "new" version of OSX released for PowerPC Macs - the unofficial 10.5.9 Sorbet Leopard! Combining parts of 10.5 and the unreleased 10.6 PowerPC Beta, and throwing in a bunch of interesting quirks and features, Sorbet promises Tiger-level compatibility and speed, with Leopard-level compatibility.
Does it live up to this promise? If I try it on my G4 upgraded Pismo, will it literally explode?! Let's find out!
VIDEO LINKS:
🍎 Sorbet Leopard thread on MacRumors: forums.macrumors.com/threads/...
🍎 Sorbet Leopard on Macintosh Garden: macintoshgarden.org/apps/sorb...
🍎 ForkBomb Podcast: forkbomb.podbean.com/e/episod...
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What I really want you to do, is take one reasonably spec-ed G4 (not the low end nor highest end, but well over the requirements), and on an internal SSD, install four partitions: Tiger, Leopard, Sorbet, and Snow Leopard (aka "Impossible Cat"), and compare the results in speed and performance.
were can i get the upgrade
Will Final Cut 7 run on Sorbet Leopard? That's the real question.
That's cool you can play Minecraft or run a Geekbench test on this OS, but those are real basic. Apple lists the minimum OS required for Final Cut Studio (Final Cut 7) as OS 7.6 (Snow Leopard). 🤷
Had no idea people were still modding OSX, shows that there's still a lot of love for the PPC days.
@Nny Yeah, I know how active the other communities are. Just was surprised to see people modding old versions of OSX - most modders moved on to more recent versions like DOSdude1.
@@amirpourghoureiyan1637 I prefer playing with pre-386 and even CP/M machines, mainly as hardware projects. I have trouble wrapping my mind around PowerPC even being "vintage"! I "get" the gamers going back to Win95 and 98, because: games. And there's even a fair amount x86 and ARM interaction because Raspberry Pis are a cheap way of modifying x86 hardware to connect with the internet, do HDMI, etc., and x86 emulation on ARM. Also Open Source tends to work better with larger numbers, mass adoption, and as popular as PowerPC Macs were, still a lot less so than PCs. Even Amiga fans seem to stick with 680x0 and ignore various PPC upgrades of the past.
I've also found vintage Apple users as being much more tolerant of Apple's proprietary software, I'm surprised to hear anyone is trying to mod any versions of past Mac OSes at all. It seemed to me Applers tend to use the last compatible OS and just accept they are working with crippled machines. You're mention of DosDude1's patches are a revelation to me.
Yeah. Even for windows modding windows is kinda surprising. I can imagine it is that even more for macs. It is kinda less known field of people who do not find alternatives in Linux to help them but officially made versions of big OS neither.
@@squirlmy Nostalgia for these machines is really dependent on your perspective - mainly being how old you are and what you regularly used to use. Normal computing from the 2000s to now is a dramatic change for Millennials, but for older folk it's nothing compared to how big the leap was if you used machines from the 70s and 80s.
As for the mindset of users, it's a similar affair. With computers becoming more accessible in recent times, there's barely any users left that have that mechanic's mindset that was essential in the CP/M and DOS days.
Nowadays, the computer has taken a back seat in importance as its utility is outclassed in the lives of ordinary people - on the rare chance they need to use their computer, they're willing to put up with the "quirks" that the OS forces on them like a bad kitchen appliance.
@Nny Yup those of us doing stuff with Amigas are amazed at what you can do on these new Power Pc Macs. Seriously though its mad what can be done with modern programming and cheap programable chips and Chinese pcb fabricators. Things that were not doable in 1990 or cost thousands can now be done for the price of two Starbucks Lattes.
I think Leopard does not include graphics acceleration for the ATI Rage cards, which causes the graphics to run very slowly. I think you can hack the tiger kext files into both 10.5 versions and you could get better results. I think I may have done this at some point.
I downloaded a patch the other day. Works great.
@@owowowdhxbxgakwlcybwxsimcwx Sorbet did not appear to add the rage kexts back in. The reason why it is faster is related moreso with the overall optimization of leopard, which has not been seen in any original 10.5 release.
@@ww21943 I would think that APIs or just speed in that it could become a decelerator would be a problem since the ATI Rage is very old, but I guess it doesn't matter? How much faster is it?
@@r3n846 no perceptible speed difference either way. However, without the patch I couldn’t run DVD movies.
that pfp just took me 10 years back
This is amazing! I used my old PowerMac G5 as a daily driver until 2016, and I struggled a lot with finding PPC-compatible software on OldApps and other repositories. I moved on from Leopard and tried several PPC Linux distributions, but I gave up on the machine not long after. I'm installing Sorbet on my old machine as a testament to how durable Apple made its products back in the day.
As always, Spotlight indexing is one of the major drains to Leopard, and is one thing that is disabled by default in Sorbet. It's possible Leopard on the external drive was indexing the Tiger/Sorbet partitions, making your benchmarks worse than it would be if it were not indexing. Might be worth looking into.
You're right! If you look at the blinking circle in the magnifyer on lepoard you can see it's indexing!
For me, Classic is the reason to still use Tiger on anything. If/when Classic gets ported to Sorbet Leopard, I'll consider it seriously. But thanks for the review!
@JJ Evans Mmmmm, no, it could be done with a kernel reimplementation, but the amoun of work to then edit eeeeeeeeeeeeverything would just be..... well, lets just say I don't want to type the word Darwin enough imes to think he was right and jump off a bridge, lol. I doubt people would really want to work on it though simply BECAUSE of things like sheepshaver, as well as a couple other tools you can install through ports.
As well, theres been some tools made in russia and spain I think(?) that can take the old apps and make them work in linux or fbsd, but I never played with them.
@JJ Evans sheepshaver doesn't emulate an mmu though, which destroys stability with certain programs. Classic has long been the best way to get OS 9 apps running in OS X.
@@jjevans6261they just need to find out a way to get a few old functions out.
What is "Classic"? Is that Rosetta?
@@richardmckee9466 No, it's different. Rosetta is a CPU emulator that allows software built for Mac OS X and compiled for a PowerPC CPU to run in Mac OS X on an Intel CPU. Classic is a virtualization engine that allows software built for Mac OS 9 and earlier and compiled for a PowerPC CPU to run in Mac OS X on a PowerPC CPU, by booting a virtual instance of Mac OS 8-9 inside Mac OS X. Apple killed off Classic with the introduction of Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) for Intel and Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard) for PowerPC and Intel. The last Mac OS X incarnation it officially works in is Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger) for PowerPC.
My home server is a PMG5 1.8GHz, 8GB of RAM, running 10.5.8. I am most definitely going to test out Sorbet on it. It has been working flawlessly for years and years, but surely I can eek out a little bit more perfornance... It was a game changer when I moved 10.5.8 on to an SSD though. Holy smokes, that made a huge difference performancewise.
A G5 as a server? You are single handedly responsible for climate change.
I’m in the process of reviving my old dual 1.8 G5 PM. It has a dead shorted PS. I’m looking into putting an SSD in it when I get it up and running again. I’ve heard some varieties of SSD won’t work with the SATA controller in these machines. I’d be interested in hearing what you flavor you used.
This reminds me of when I used a 2006 Mac mini as a NAS, but due to complaints from other family members about all the external hard drives preventing some of them from cleaning the living room, I upgraded.
@@cromulence To offset that, I also drive it to work in the morning. :)
@@notajp Currently using two Samsung 860 QVO SSD's, out of a total of six disks in the computer. The others are conventional 2.5" and 3.5" disks, getting replaced with SSD's when they fail. One QVO is the startup disk.
I would love to see something like this for older intel macs that are unable to run Big Sur or are underperforming with Big Sur. A hybrid open source distro of intel macOS could help machines that are currently suffering from Planned Obsolescence and Apple’s total disregard for their impact on the environment by obsoleting Mac’s.
Open Core Legacy Patcher. Lets you install newer OS versions on older Macs.
Thanks for sharing! I would have never known there were still ways to breath life into old Macs again like this.
The best parts of this channel are the hand gestures and super smooth segways....
Love your content dude!
Best OS X: Do you want Classic and better compatibility with older OS X apps and/or support for older hardware (especially G3s)? Use Tiger. Do you want the newest version with the latest software support? Use Leopard. Easy choice. I don't really have a preference except that I mostly only use Tiger primarily because I have older apps that don't like Leopard and I don't think I have any (PPC) apps that want Leopard anyway (though Leopard's better for internet apps especially with the demise of TenFourFox). I'll have to give this a try though.
Tiger will always be better, Leopard is better for Intel as Snow Leopard
Will be neat to see this run on a G5 one day.
Nice pfp
its really snappy on my g5 dual core late 2005 (2.3ghz, x1900 GT, 14GB ddr2, 300gb intel ssd) compared to even leopard with auroatrimaccelerator and lots of those other tweaks applied, even works great on youtube with included Webkit
When you mentioned how this offered greater compatibility and how Classic support was one of the things that kept people on Tiger I thought you were going to demonstrate that they got Classic support going in this new distro. Based on the video and a quick look at the forum post, that doesn’t seem to be the case.
Well, if you listen to what he says, he very clearly talks about the greater compatibility with more modern software and internet tools brought by Leopard, being mixed with the better speed offered by Tiger. I'm not sure how you missed that, but nowhere was it suggested that 'Classic' had been included.
@@another3997 to be fair he does say in the description it provides the “compatibility of tiger” so
dude that transition between the g4 and the pismo was flawless!!!! loved the video man!
Will have to try this, was not impressed by leopard speed on my powerbook and went back to tiger, I'll give this a go though and see how it stacks up. Interesting project.
I think tiger on the Cinema Display is gorgeous because the plastic inside and out marries the design of the hardware and software like nothing else. However, on the metal MacBooks and especially the unibody ones (even the modern ones) look the best with leopard. Leopard and snow leopard are the most gorgeous macOS imo.
This is fantastic! Going to test Sorbet on my range of G4s-one 12” PB, 17” PB, and couple of 12” iBooks!
I just dug out my nearly 20 year old Mac mini and installed Sorbet Leopard! I installed an SSD using a SATA to IDE adapter. The thermal paste had turned into a rock hard resin. When trying to remove the heatsink I knocked 2 tiny capacitors off the board and had to solder new ones on. The DVD drive was seized and required lots of cleaning and greasing. But after all that! IT WORKS GREAT! The Sierra theme looks fantastic and it's really super quick! I'm sure I will find some uses for it, even if it's just as a basic media player. It's nice to have it working again after 12 years sitting unloved 😸
I am impressed at the ingenuity of the developers who put Sorbet together. Very cool. Still on my Ti I run, Mac OS 9.2.2. Thanks for this very interesting video
I had no idea people customized mac os. Learn something new every day, forget 2 things every day too.
You had me at 'delightful sorbet'. Well played, sir. Well played.
I’ve actually been running Sorbet leopard on my MDD G4 for a bit before you made this video. I loved the intro
This is the video I have been waiting for!
I installed Sorbet on my Pismo G4 550. I initially had an issue installing it due to running older firmware (I posted about it on the LEM Facebook page). Once I updated it to the latest version, Sorbet installed without any issue. It works very similar to how you demonstrated here. I made sure to run the tuneup after I installed it and followed all the recommendations for a smoother experience. It works really well with my wifi card and I have a Bluetooth/ USB 2.0 card on it's way from China (same one reviewed by Hurtkay). If I had to use this machine as a daily machine, I honestly could. Obviously with some drawbacks.
I also have a PowerBook Ti 867. I ran Sorbet on there from an external FireWire drive. I am either going to make a partition for Sorbet on the Ti or maybe wipe the drive and start fresh. It has a 128GB SSD. Same as my Pismo.
Three drawbacks I've noticed so far:
1. I cannot watch DVD's on the Pismo in Sorbet. There is probably a workaround, but it is past my abilities to figure it out. The problem is likely that 10.5 doesn't recognize the encoder.
2. There is no search functionality, even in the Finder. I guess that is related to Spotlight which is disabled by default in Sorbet. Spotlight is too much of a resource hog for my Pismo so I will leave it disabled.
3. One minor issue is Sorbet doesn't seem to work with the battery indicator. Not that it really matters since the batteries in my PowerBooks are pretty much useless.
Oh, one more thing. Mail. You mentioned this uses WebKit with Mail integration. I can't get Mail to work with my gmail or yahoo mail.
@@ww21943 there’s probably no fix for email, as they want encrypted IMAP nowadays and the older mail clients don’t support the HTTPS.
The only workarounds I’ve seen for older systems involve using a newer system as a bridge, with the direct IMAP hookup, and running a mail server directly on that machine to re-serve it to the older machines over LAN.
Definitely giving Sorbet a try on my mid 2005 12" iBook G4! It has 1.5GB of RAM and the 1.3GHz processor in it.
I currently have Leopard running on it and indeed it's sluggish. It was bad enough that I was considering rolling back to Tiger, but now I'm glad that there's another option!
Thanks for making this video. I hadn't heard of this mod before. I think I'll give this a try on my old 17" G4 Powerbook (aluminum) -- currently set up as a dual boot Tiger/Leopard.
At the moment I only have a g3 machine in commission (iBook mid-2001), but will definitely give this a shot once I get a working hard disk installed to my g4 iBook. I was a bit reserved at first, but those benchmark results relative to stock Leopard looked really good
That has to be the best sorbet I've ever seen!
I've always been in the "if it can run Leopard decently at all, run Leopard" camp. Most of G4 machines which I use frequently, have been upgraded enough to do so. What I think I'm going to try is to install it on the eSata external drive on the G5 Quad, just to run some comparison tests.
Oh nice!!
I miss my old PM G5 Quad with 6 (six) hard drives in it. I think that maybe the large amount of drives and the fact that it was on 24/7/365 may have put too much pressure on the PSU. Or it could have been something else.
@@perandersjohnsen3286Okay, I have to ask, how did you cram 6 hard drives in to a PowerMac G5? There are two SATA drive bays. I added another using an internal FireWire 800 port on a PCIe card. Or are you counting external drives?
@@brokenelectronics3665 It's possible to shove them in the upper area if you don't have an optical drive, just need a PCI-E SATA controller
I have been searching for a powerbook titanium for a long time. Great video I am glad there is a still a big following for the retro power mac computers.
This is an incredibly good review, thanks for sharing!
This really is a super interesting video! I may have to give Sorbet a go on my MDD.
Interestingly enough, my dual-core 2.3GHz G5 scores slightly higher in Geekbench under Leopard (2368, vs 2349 in Tiger). There's really no noticeable performance difference between the two.
However, on the dual 1.25GHz MDD, Tiger definitely wins, with a score of 1157 (vs 1083 in Leopard). Not only that, but Leopard takes around _twice_ as long to get going on this machine. I'm thinking the MDD may be a prime candidate for a delicious helping of some Sorbet!
Every time you say "quirks and features" I expect Doug Demuro to bust in like Kool-Aid Man.
Think I may just put this on my G5 PPC Dual, certainly have the room to try it. As long as it runs the software I use which is all “new classic” anything else is just gravy.
Update: I have the same spec'd Pismo (550 G4, 1GB, SSD). I'm getting 6.71 on the user interface test in the latest revision of Sorbet Leopard (I think it's revision 1.5). I'll have to compare that to Tiger when I get a change to make sure it's not a difference in the way our Pismos perform.
Great video man. I will try it on my late 2005 PowerMac (Pci-e) G5 DualCore 2.3GHz, 8GB Ram, 500GB main drive.
This is an outstanding video. Just learned last month, about the unreleased Apple, Inc. version of OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (for systems with a Power PC processor). However, this hybrid version OS X 10.5.9, Sorbet Leopard appears to be the best of both worlds. Had been looking into Linux as a way to add new life into my G3, G4, and G5 systems but, I think this appears to be a much better option. Create one Hard Drive partition for Sorbet Leopard and another for partition for 10.4 Tiger (So that, I can continue to run all of my OS 9 software programs). Afterward, I hope the Arctic Fox web browser is supported (smile...smile).
Good vid, I’ve had my eye on sorbet for a while. Might be worth having a play.
This makes me hopeful for a port of Classic on Leopard and Snow Leopard❤
Sorbet Leopard has been vital in revitalizing and heavily modernizing my G4 eMac (1.25, ssd, maxed out ram).
It made it a "usable" computer and gave me access to a very thick library of applications and games compatible with 10.5.
Amazing!
I think this would be the perfect companion for my iMac G5, but I question if a "Beige G4" could muster up enough strength for it.
I hate to admit, the reason why I like Leopard on machines that run it well is that 3D Dock. My first ever Mac shipped with El Capitan, so the 3D dock was a relic from a bygone era for the longest time, until I got into vintage Macs.
Totally agree with this.
I will attempt to put this on an iBook G4 mid-2005 sometime this week. Thanks for the idea.
hmmm might be worth a try on my G4 AlBook 12inch. Thanks for the interesting video :)
I wanted to use it but I can see an option to format the HD with OS9 drivers on my 2004 eMac. I wanted to dual boot Sorbet and OS9 using the macos9lives version. Witch version of Onyx are you supposed to use? ^ I would use Applejack I guess...
This is awesome! How are the fans? I’m afraid of turning on my 12” 1.5Ghz PowerBook G4 on Leopard because it sounds like it’s going to explode or fly away. Do they kick on a lot? If not, I’m definitely doing this.
I still run Tiger on my PowerMac G5 because of Classic. That's what I need since I currently don't have a machine that runs a native Classic Mac OS here.
Sorbet is indeed faster than the vanilla 10.5.8 but still a long way to reach Tiger's speed and snappiness. The main "magic" behind Sorbet which z970 hasn't mentioned is a disabled Spotlight. Once you re-enable Spotlight it's almost the same in terms of speed as the original Leopard. Don't get me wrong, z970 has done a great job optimizing good old Leopard but for me personally Sorbet isn't worth it as I use spotlight a lot and also I've had some bugs in finder with disappearing icons and also seems like z970 has removed bluetooth support. I couldn't get any of my Macs to get bluetooth in Sorbet.
I LOVE both Tiger and Snow Leopard. So much love for these old system softwares, they really are nostalgic for me.
what do you think of 10.7.5 lion?
Interesting, I'll have to dig my Power Mac G5 out of storage to test this out!
An interesting project. Unfortunately finding modern software to run on these is becoming next to impossible.
Yeah that’s the only drawback that prevents me from using my old PowerBook g4 today.
Very interesting! No good for my Key Lime Clam but I recently scored some Quicksilvers that this could work well with.
Will give this a try on my Power Mac G4
Great that people are still out there doing software mods for PowerPC! This looks mighty impressive!
man, this OS looks sick, i've got a 17" Powerbook that im almost certainly going to install this on.
That being said, i recently replaced the cells in its battery and its showing me incorrect percentages in the OS and with the charge indicator lights. Any idea what the cause of this might be? or how to fix it? Im pretty sure its something to do with battery firmware, but im not sure if im able to reflash that. i figure this would be the place to ask.
Did you try discharging it until it died, and then charging it back up to 100%? If that doesn't work, try *really* discharging it by skipping the OS and just leaving it in OpenFirmware until the battery controller cuts power. I once fixed an Alienware that way.
I'm downloading it now! Thanks!
Was just thinking about trying this out on a Mirror Powermac
As the proud owner of a 400MHz G4 tower, I can confirm vanilla leopard is painful to use on a slow G4. Currently I have it running 10.3.9 and it's very usable but I will have to check Sorbet Leopard out.
Cool! This reminds me of GomTalk which combined the Japanese parts of KanjiTalk 6.0.7 with US System 7, giving you a Kanji System 7 before Apple released an official Japanese System 7.
lol! Awesome! I can't wait to get a working G4 MDD tower out of my 3 broken ones so I can try this!
Wow this is so cool. I'll have to check it out on one of my Macs too. I'm just too curious.
I love the new room!
I'll be trying it out on my mdd when I get back home for Christmas
@acton Retro, what enclosure are you using for your external SSD?
No matter what I do, I can’t get the zip to extract. Do you have any tips on this? I’ve tried on several computers with several different downloads, and every zip utility there is
Okay whaaaaaaaaaaat
I’m definitely subscribing to you for this. And that intro.
Have you tried any of the Linux distros for the new PowerpC Power9 architecture its backwards compatible with the old Mac PowerPC machines?
I'm going to install Sorbet Leopard on my iMac G4. Looking forward to upgrading from Tiger.
I just bought a few upgrades to renew my aging powerpc, top case, speakers waiting on the new keyboard. Still use Sorbet, just amazing and sad that apple knew 10.5 sucked, fixed it but wouldnt share the fix with powerpc platforms on purpose.
I'm glad to see retro OSX builds still getting community mods and patches just like Windows 98. Makes a great sign that, even in these dark times, the retro computing fandom is still going strong. (Also, is it bad that I really wanna call it "Sorbetpard"?)
SOR-bep-urd? Yea, me too, now that you mention it. Kinda cursed but it just makes sense.
I was running Leopard on my dual core G5 2Ghz, then Sorbet but switched back to Tiger. Running Tiger feels like a modern Mac responsiveness when used with SSD drive. I'll check out the Tigerbrew and what newish software it has it in the library.
Swow thanks for this info ....I have an EmacG4 and have been looking to get it on the internet for some time now
Yes Sean sorbet leopard is A joy to have running on your G4s G5s PPC machines Really like running on my G4 cube games should run better on the sorbet aswell
I am going to try it on my G5 and see how it is, might upgrade leoperd to Sorbet
Does 10.5.9 supports Apple Screen Software (geometry adjustments etc) for older Apple CRT displays?
I have a Dual CPU g4 MDD that i am now really itching to try this on.
Great video man. Wish we could see how it works with the web browser.
is there a version of this optimized to take full advantage of the G5 CPU?
I want to see this fly on a maxed out PowerMac G5
not maxed but it is really snappy on a 2.3 ghzdual core late 2005 with ssd, x1900 gt, and 14gb ram, only real upgrade would be the 2.5ghz quad with the full 16gb and maybe a flashed 7800 gtx although im not sure if thats even faster than a x1900 gt
@@virtualtools_3021 is it good for watching videos, movies and general web browsing?
@@WooferCooker not necesarily amazing, but it can do 720p full screen (even tho it takes 2-3 seconds to switch) or 480p or lower with decent (4-5 tabs in addition to video) multitasking with minecraft at the same time with some random text documents open
I see it doing drive indexing @ 13:11 which is going to be a pretty drag on the system.
Love stuff like this
OMG!!! this video is so great
Very little OS X software is PPC-only, and even early Intel Macs (which cost less today than PPC machines) can run the fraction of PPC software faster under Rosetta because they’re multi-core. The only benefit of using a PPC OS X machine over an Intel OS X machine is Classic, which doesn’t run under Leopard.
that's crazy !!
I love it when a community gangs together to make something that turns old computers into usable computers.
Well this is very unique! So Relatable!
Hey man, how did you manage to connect to wifi on the Titanium Powerbook G4?
I got an airport card and plugged it in. The laptop sees my wifi, but it keeps saying that something went wrong when I try to get on it.
I might have to try Sorbet on one of my G4 iBooks. Do still prefer Tiger as it's just so snappy!
Hey, that's super neat!
These old macs were so good I still used one up until 2019 out of choice. Would still be on it if I didn’t have to use zoom
What a *LOUD* chatty hand 🖖‼️.... LOL😂... but great episode🔥 Subscribed...
I remember one of the big changes the project author cited was to increase performance by removing a lot of unneeded background tasks that chewed away resources. I think the iPod background watcher used something like 1% idle CPU.
A `top` on an idle system should reveal a lot.
on my g5 2.3ghz dual it went from 5-10% background usage (tweaked leopard) to ~1% (sorbet leopard)
What code did they bring from the PPC version of Snow Leopard
If I can, I will try this on my G5 as soon as I get it working
I need a hand gesture loop overlay for everything.
Think I'll try this on my G4 MDD that I have sitting around not doing anything
thanks for video. This OS is nice idea, I just have some security concerns about it. Nobody knows what's really inside :(
Running any computer of this vintage is risky. I wouldn’t do your internet banking on these.
I’m going to try it on my regular Leopard install, but only because I want the theme lol!
Wow-can sorbet run Time Machine? Does it interface well with SCSI cards?
Hey, where did my delightful Sorbet go? Show your guilty face, man! LoL ... Seriously, this was very informative and interesting.
As much as I am a power, PC, fanatic and love your videos, I really wanted to hear more about the sorbet. It looked delicious. And I was really hoping that the sorbet came with an upgraded G4 card as well. I mean a G4 flavored sorbet just sounds amazing.