Unvented Cylinder For Hot Water - Fault Finding - Safety Controls - G3
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- Опубликовано: 22 июн 2021
- #Plumber Plumbing Training - How Unvented Hot Water Cylinders Work. Fault Finding. Safety Controls.
Pressurised Hot Water Systems.
Indirect Hot Water.
unvented cylinder training video.
Plumber and expert training looking at Unvented Cylinders, How they work and faults that can occur. 
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Unvented Cylinder For Hot Water - Fault Finding - Safety Controls - G3 ruclips.net/video/h2ApE7rE3Lk/видео.html
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My unvented hot water system has no tundish.
That was grateful to remind me about, I must forget because sence my qualifications I have being doing different things tanks you to share your videos 👍
I had the pleasure of having part of my ACS course taught by roy. He is an absolutely first class instructor.
Roy is a legend! Great information.. Alan is even more of a legend for bringing us informational videos like this! He’s a good bloke, his attitude towards helping others is amazing , keep it Alan, appreciate all the videos 👍🏻😎
How good is this for young trainees to be getting quality training from a fully qualified teacher and someone like Allan whos been in the trade for so long and knows so much and all for free.
Thanks again for a simple way of understanding how the system works
Roy, thanks for going over the safety control devices on the unvented cylinder. You have explained it logically and thoroughly bringing in field experience which is vital for new trainees. Thanks again.
Allen and Roy You guys smashed it with the G3 videos , I learnt more on these than the half day course I done For sure
Watched this video a few times. Doing my G3 assesment tomorrow. It was a great help. Thanks.
Great video as always. Thanks for the refresher about G3. As they say safety is paramount in all cases.
My G3 certificate has recently expired. Spooky that this video turned up in my feed!
Doing this course right now, this explains it very well, great video!
Great video video Allen including Roy, very useful information provided in the video regarding the unvented cylinder. Great work mate.. 👍👍😀
The Video more than amazing
Thanks alot for another great Video
Great video Roy 👍
great video thank you Allen and Roy!!!
Thank You
Great vid 👍
Great video
Awesome video
Great video, thanks. The fault finding aspect of my course wasn't very comprehensive so this has really plugged a gap for me, many thanks.
Glad it helped!
Thanks very much for your comment, please consider subscribing to support the channel 🙂
Thanks 😊
Exceptional
Love the videos Allan 👌. What's your thoughts on Hydrogen combustion boilers and hydrogen fuel cells?
Allan and Roy thank you very much guys for such a brilliant and informative videos and for your hard work to pas on your knowledge👍
I would like to have a request if it's possible about wiring switching from vented cylinder to unvented on Y plan. Many thanks!
We will see what we can do. I am working at NGCFE at the moment. i will ask. Thanks.
Great
great video. Thanks for your time. On the controls video you did for unvented you disconnected the wire in the thermostat to see if this disabled the 2 port valve. Was this from the thermostat or the link from the thermal cut out? Thank you
Hi Alan
Amazing video as always, I would like to get the Kane 358 but I can't get on any website, can you please share a link if you can
Many thanks
Hi Allen, great and interesting videos even as a non plumber. I wanted to ask you what is the best prevention for sludge coming into the boiler and blocking it as this is never covered by insurers. Beyond just a magni filter
A good flush and rust inhibitors are the best way . You can fit a spirotech filter for non magnetic debris
Hi really liked the video can i ask i have recently had my megaflo unvented tank changed under warranty everything was fine untill the last few wks my hot water is scolding hot i have had baxi out to check the tank and they say its fine and my problem could be the tmv valve failed after watching a couple of your videos just worried now a valve on the tank is not right very interesting thanks again Steve
Anti Vac Valves. Some Worcesters cylinders, have them built into the control group. Would you recommend fitting one, if the cylinder is located, above the highest draw off point. Where syphonage is more likely? If so would you fit it on the inlet or outlet. I have previously, fitted them on the inlet. As the control group is on the inlet pipe. Would it make any difference?
Hi
Do you run an apprentice scheme as well so newly qualified plumber can take your advice?
So if the pressure is too low and the cold water is leaking into the tundish do you pressurize the vessel with water or do you recharge the tank with air. I say this because of what you normally do with combination boilers.
Have you had any problems with noise from expansion vessel when hot tap opened
Thanks Viva,
I am a plumber for many years, unfortunately I am not qualified to work on unvented cylinders.
I was called out to an emergency leak coming from a unvented hot water cylinder. The person had replaced the emersion but hadn't fit the emersion properly, he had put ptfe tape on the threading instead of hawk white. I had to drain down and reseal the emersion and refit. On my arrival I also noticed that he had put a pressure air release valve on the top of the cylinder, nothing else, is that permissible?
If not I would like to notify the customer.
Thanks Clive
For a 10/15 Lt under sink water heater , do you need a valve that drains to outside ??
Great video. I've been out to quite a few office buildings for issues with undersink water heaters, usually for complains of foul smells where prv's have been connected to wastes without sealed tundishes. I've seen plenty of poor installations done by builders.
Are you supposed to have g3 for 10 & 15 litre under sink water heaters?
This question came up recently with under sink water heaters , anything 15 and under is outside of the scope apparently. No certification is reqd . But looking at the video it really needs to be brought in .
@@dennisphoenix1 I agree. Crazy that there's no qualifications needed for these heaters.
@@smithersjones3018 I had my head in a suspended ceiling and saw a small water heater for the disabled toilet hand basin , I was looking at then realised there is no expansion vessel. No idea who has done that .
@@dennisphoenix1 Tbf some isolations don't require expansion vessels if theres a certain about of pipework connected to the heaters. The pipe work can soak up the expansion. I've definitely read something about that in the intructions for ariston heaters. You can get other makes that come with specific taps that vent. You've got to read the manufacturers instructions.
There certainly is a lot of bad installs about though.
@@smithersjones3018 I did wonder whether there was an internal air gap as the mega flow has. I remember from the G3 course it said that if the incoming pipe was increased to 28mm it would allow for the expansion. Watching the video the pressure soon goes up when the expansion vessel is removed
Can you get an air lock at the taps with this system, every other hot water tap works apart from bath and shower
I have seen a company fit an unvented Ideal cylinder as a replacement onto a gravity system heated by a Baxi back boiler. I always thought these cylinders must be fitted to a fully pumped system - S or Y plans?
👍
Looking at a Gledhill Lite-Stainless Unvented Cylinder manual, it says that any direct cold taps (including toilets) should be plumbed from the incoming mains and not from the balanced cold feed that exits from the inlet control group. It also shows that the supply to the bath should be piped in 22mm and should be a tee off from the 22mm mains that supplies the unvented cylinder G3 input. Why not take all cold connections from the balanced cold connector contained withing the G3 valve? Wouldn't that keep the whole system pressurised at 3bar?
💝💝💝
You have a Isolation valve on inlet to cylinder after expansion vessel. !! See video 27:15 min
Thank You
We have 14 year old mega flow heatre sadia unvented cylinder in apartment never been serviced as didn’t realise it was necessary. Recently found leak on base of cylinder. Have recharged it to instructions and took 25 minutes to stop gurgling. Every thing seemed fine. A day later the drips in the tundish started again slow but constant. I reenergised a few more times over the last week but still dripping and out of the bottom side of the Tundish where connected to pipe seems to be leaking down pipe into base. Also noticed the water when I have a shower seems a lot hotter then normal. One plumber suggested replacing the whole cylinder however don’t have the money for that at the moment - any ideas what it could be.
Thanks for this vid. Good explanation. My pressure vessel (potable, unvented system) fails regularly, causing the pressure relief to go. Plumber comes (I've used different ones for 2nd and 3rd opinions) and says, 'yep, I'll need to replace the expansion vessel'. This happens about once a year, and then low and behold, it lasts a while and fails again. I’ve asked plumber after plumber why this keeps happening, perhaps another more systemic fault -with the multi valve perhaps?? But everyone just says replace the expansion vessel... Oh, and they tell me off for the expansion vessel not being mounted on the wall... it starts off on the wall but when its gets heavy with water (when it fails), it falls off. Also leaving it on the floor makes it easy to feel how heavy it is and tell when its getting near needing replacing again!
Any ideas of what else could be causing the vessel to repeatedly fail please? Then I can suggest this to the next plumber (when they're available after Christmas!)
Not sure if you solved this problem but I've seen this happen before with one of my customers. In this case it was caused by an unbalanced hot and cold water feed to a mixer tap somewhere in the property. The hot water at the pressure reduced pressure of 3BAR from the cylinder but the cold was at 5 BAR straight from the mains. This caused the 5 BAR cold water to feed-back via the mixer tap back up the hot-water pipe and into the cylinder bringing it up to 5 BAR. So even though the cylinder should have been safely at 3Bar behind the pressure reducing valve, it was constantly slowly rising up to 5 BAR after each time the hot water was used. This constant high pressure/low pressure cycling was causing the pressure vessel to regularly fill with water and fail prematurely. Solution was to provide a balanced cold feed to the mixer tap.
@@thunderfromdarkskies excellent intel. Thanks for the reply, I’ll look in to this. Makes a lot of sense.
What would happen if the boiler is set at 65c and the thermostat on the cylinder is set at 45c..would we see hot water vented?
Would fault would cause intermittent hot water vented whilst hot water heating up?
Allen, Say you have a Hive system. You program a schedule for 1 hour hot water heating. It calls for hot water, heats water.. If the cylinder gets to desired temperature.. say 60 or 65c, does this then turn off the gas and hot water heating or does it run for 1 hour? Looking at how to set up Hive so economical and doesnt burn more gas than needed.
Any gauges you can add to cylinder to measure temperature of water in cylinder as that would be so useful to know if you need to heat hot water and how hot it is.. I would have thought these were built in as standard as a very useful reading to have for water temperature
Cylinder stat
Hi I'm a customer and have the tundish but rather than cold water it is warm water.
Could that still be a failed expansion bottle.
The thermostat appears to be ok.
I will ask if the plumber who services my boiler has a g3 cert,
I have a megaflo unvented cylinder and have to keep recharging the air gap 3-4months. Is this normal?
What I would like to ask when you have an inlet multi control failed to replace , do I need to replace it with same one or any multi inlet control will cover
Thank you
It would have to have the same design charecteristics , say 3.5 bar reducing valve and 6 bar expansion valve etc . If it's still in warranty then a like for like would keep the warranty. If you aren't bothered then a generic part will do .
@@dennisphoenix1 Thanks a lot
Hi I’ve been to repair a unvented cylinder the water was coming out of the blow off I change the expansion vessel was low and when the boiler kicked in and started heating the cylinder it blew off again so I changed the inlet valve with the pressure reducer on and new prv turned boiler on and and same thing happens start on cylinder 60 degrees and there’s a return pump on turned that off still happens can you help
Thanks Ian
Hi Gents. Is there an entry requirement for a G3 course? Doing a fast track gas later this year so will have my gas tickets next year. Looking to add G3 in after that.
experience required but you shouldn't have trouble getting it done
Either a recognised qualification like a NVQ etc or proof of experience in the industry. I am a electrician and I have done the G3 .
If a customer complains of reduced flow rate from an unvented what would it likely be? Can you adjust the pressure reducing valve to increase flow if needs be?
Reduced flow rate is normally the strainer being blocked, the pressure reducing valve are normally factory set and can't be adjusted.
I hope this helps.
you can adjust most pressure reducing valves just take the plastic cap off.
You would need to check the upstream and downstream pressure to see if the prv is working correctly. You should not alter the manufacturer supplied parts . As said check the strainer etc
what would cause the water to go hot for 30 seconds and then go luke warm ?
Hi. I've got a problem with my Megaflo cylinder. Every time it starts heating the water there is a loud pinging/banging noise coming from where it is installed. I've had British Gas out numerous times to no avail. The first six months after the installation, there was no noise at all. I've done a cylinder recharge which helped for a few days but then the noise returned.
Any advice would be appreciated, thanks.
I once had one engineer recommended by the manufacturer who wanted to come in for £110 second time in two weeks to fix the same problem. I turned him away.
Might be a stupid question but what is difference between system boiler and heat only
Hi Iain,
No such thing as a stupid question.
A system boiler has an expansion vessel and circulation pump built in, a heat only boiler doesn't.
@@royfugler9971 thank you
expensive training rig, brass tectite.