You gained my sub! I’ve been waiting to see if anyone was going to make this upgrade guide as I bought several of the decks but was most hyped for this one . Like you stated this deck is missing win cons so I had the challenger Dimir standard deck and had taken a couple cards from there to complete this one plus ordered some sharks and had an ashiok in my binder so you confirmed I did the right thing! Can’t wait to see your humans deck upgrade as I’ve only done the lands thus far
This is a great video. And well spoken about the deck list upgrades being win cons. It’s what the deck sorely needed. A thought about the Dig cards though. Dig Through Time is good because we can lower its cost through delve. But Memory Deluge lets us get the effect twice off of one card, but spread out. Do you prefer one over the other? I like memory deluge a lot because utility. But I’m finding that games aren’t usually long enough to cast more than twice.
I'm a big fan of Memory Deluge, and I generally prefer it over Dig. There is 1 drawback in this deck though - it can't be recast with Torrential Gearhulk. If you cast Memory Deluge with Gearhulk, you pay 0 mana for it, so you look at the top 0 cards and pick 2 of them, which doesn't do anything. :P
@@AffinityforMTG Oh wow. See I haven’t played those cards together so I didn’t know. And since I always pay the mana, I forget that deluge is based on mana paid. Mentally I just see the card and think “Scry 4, pick 2 then bury. Flashback Scry 7 pick 2 then bury”.
How do you feel about 2-3 "Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim" in combination with multiple draw spells as win condition to replace some of the meta win cons? It's also great as he provides his own protection in a deck that rarely sees any other creatures than sharks. Or is he to clunky and slow? And also don't forget his synergy with Sheoldred and Iymrith.
Is it worth buying a Pioneer Challenger deck in February 2024? I played from 1995 to 2000. Then again very briefly in 2018 and would now like to get back into Magic. Anyway, I'm wondering which of the many Magic products are the right ones given my Magic situation/history?
While not quite as egregious as the phoenix deck only having 2 phoenixes. Only having one shark typhoon really stings in this precon. I got very lucky as my LGS sold me 3 of them for 20 bucks total but I can only hope this influx drops the price so more people can experience the joy of shark storming.
Out of curiosity, which upgraded Dimir Control deck (This one or the April one) would you say was better if put head to head? (All cards are legal in pioneer so I am curious)
Generally pioneer deck should be more powerful, just because there is a bigger card pool with more powerful cards to use. So my guess would be this deck wins. :)
I don't recall just what upgrades were all suggested for the standard deck but at least it had eight win cons in it. It also has 11 targeted kill spells (2 exile) vs. 10 in the Pioneer deck and 6 wipes vs. just 2. The standard deck has 5 counters and 6 draw spells to the other's 12 counters and 11 draw/filter spells. Head to head might be curious.
Thanks for the video Am I right to think that Izzet Phoenix is a terrible matchup for it, given the amount of cheap spells and continuous recurrence of phoenixes? If so, any ideas on improving that matchup?
I play phoenix on Arena and Azorious control is a good matchup for phoenix. The reason is that they have two types of control spells counter spells and removal. Izzet Pheonix is capable of not caring about counter spells. The phoenix comes out if the spells were cast. It doesn't actually care if they resolve. The Pheonix Challenger deck has a problem of not enough threats, so the actual likely end of the match between the two challenger decks is a Dimir Control victory, possibly by deck out. Go Blank! is super strong against Izzet Pheonix. Cling to dust is also fairly good. If you want to improve the matchup for Dimir, put "Leyline of the Void" into the sideboard. The stops all the graveyard stuff and will force Izzet to win without Treasure Cruise and makes its namesake card fairly bad.
You gained my sub! I’ve been waiting to see if anyone was going to make this upgrade guide as I bought several of the decks but was most hyped for this one . Like you stated this deck is missing win cons so I had the challenger Dimir standard deck and had taken a couple cards from there to complete this one plus ordered some sharks and had an ashiok in my binder so you confirmed I did the right thing! Can’t wait to see your humans deck upgrade as I’ve only done the lands thus far
Welcome! I'm hoping to have a Humans deck guide up soon in the next couple of days. :)
I have been waiting this video! You do a great work friend. Hope the day find you well.
Thanks! You too!
Wow I was looking for something like this! Thanks
Glad I can help!
Thanks for this!
Happy to help! :)
This is a great video. And well spoken about the deck list upgrades being win cons. It’s what the deck sorely needed.
A thought about the Dig cards though. Dig Through Time is good because we can lower its cost through delve. But Memory Deluge lets us get the effect twice off of one card, but spread out. Do you prefer one over the other? I like memory deluge a lot because utility. But I’m finding that games aren’t usually long enough to cast more than twice.
I'm a big fan of Memory Deluge, and I generally prefer it over Dig. There is 1 drawback in this deck though - it can't be recast with Torrential Gearhulk. If you cast Memory Deluge with Gearhulk, you pay 0 mana for it, so you look at the top 0 cards and pick 2 of them, which doesn't do anything. :P
@@AffinityforMTG Oh wow. See I haven’t played those cards together so I didn’t know. And since I always pay the mana, I forget that deluge is based on mana paid. Mentally I just see the card and think “Scry 4, pick 2 then bury. Flashback Scry 7 pick 2 then bury”.
how about cavalier of the gales? draws 3 cards immediately and is shuffled into library when it dies.
How do you feel about 2-3 "Teferi, Temporal Pilgrim" in combination with multiple draw spells as win condition to replace some of the meta win cons? It's also great as he provides his own protection in a deck that rarely sees any other creatures than sharks. Or is he to clunky and slow? And also don't forget his synergy with Sheoldred and Iymrith.
Is it worth buying a Pioneer Challenger deck in February 2024?
I played from 1995 to 2000. Then again very briefly in 2018 and would now like to get back into Magic.
Anyway, I'm wondering which of the many Magic products are the right ones given my Magic situation/history?
While not quite as egregious as the phoenix deck only having 2 phoenixes. Only having one shark typhoon really stings in this precon. I got very lucky as my LGS sold me 3 of them for 20 bucks total but I can only hope this influx drops the price so more people can experience the joy of shark storming.
You need field of ruin for nykthos. I’d keep atleast 3
Out of curiosity, which upgraded Dimir Control deck (This one or the April one) would you say was better if put head to head? (All cards are legal in pioneer so I am curious)
Generally pioneer deck should be more powerful, just because there is a bigger card pool with more powerful cards to use. So my guess would be this deck wins. :)
@@AffinityforMTG That's fair... I wonder if I can mix and match the two decks... Might be fun to see what comes out.
I don't recall just what upgrades were all suggested for the standard deck but at least it had eight win cons in it. It also has 11 targeted kill spells (2 exile) vs. 10 in the Pioneer deck and 6 wipes vs. just 2. The standard deck has 5 counters and 6 draw spells to the other's 12 counters and 11 draw/filter spells. Head to head might be curious.
Thanks for the video
Am I right to think that Izzet Phoenix is a terrible matchup for it, given the amount of cheap spells and continuous recurrence of phoenixes? If so, any ideas on improving that matchup?
I play phoenix on Arena and Azorious control is a good matchup for phoenix. The reason is that they have two types of control spells counter spells and removal. Izzet Pheonix is capable of not caring about counter spells. The phoenix comes out if the spells were cast. It doesn't actually care if they resolve.
The Pheonix Challenger deck has a problem of not enough threats, so the actual likely end of the match between the two challenger decks is a Dimir Control victory, possibly by deck out. Go Blank! is super strong against Izzet Pheonix. Cling to dust is also fairly good.
If you want to improve the matchup for Dimir, put "Leyline of the Void" into the sideboard. The stops all the graveyard stuff and will force Izzet to win without Treasure Cruise and makes its namesake card fairly bad.
Dimir has Narset who can be very good at shutting down Phoenix.
Actually shark typhoon cost betweenn 10-12 euros with chipping we reach 13.5 for one card, with is pretty far away of your 6.5 dollar 😅
They were $11 each a month ago, they dropped when these decks were released, so maybe they'll drop in europe after the realease next month! :)
how about cavalier of the gales? draws 3 cards immediately and is shuffled into library when it dies.
Yeah, I think that can work as an adequate win condition, for sure!