In the event of an accident the plaintiff would likely sue you as the mechanic who made tne negligent representation that the crank passed and was safe to use. They would also likely sue shimano as the manufacturer. Your insurance may not cover you for such a claim and you should seek advice from an insurance broker.
@@JaiJai-by4tp sadly in a court of law in the UK they would find the shop not Shimano as the guilty party as the Judge would class the shop as the Professional and it would go down as negligence on behalf of the shop. Recall or not.
Getting banned by Shimano is like a badge of honour! You've well and truly made it. What a hero. I think you've done the right thing though. I've seen plenty of bike shops/mechanics on the end of a personal injury claim and it's generally a lose lose scenario. The insurance companies will generally settle. In some cases, the insurance companies have said they won't cover the mechanic due to negligence.
@@paulgrimshaw8334I don’t think Mapdec’s goal was to get back in Shimano’s good graces. It was to point out their huge error. Shimano is playing roulette, and they will eventually lose. The recall itself seems like a joke. Why have bike shops do an inspection at all if they really care about the safety of their customers? In any other industry, recalls generally apply to ALL products made in the specific lot or time frame. Picking and choosing which ones “pass” while pawning off that liability to bike shops is absurd.
@@paulgrimshaw8334 agree. shimano is still replacing cranksets at shops that are following policy guidelines. maintain the trust in your b2b relations, don't openly admit you disregarded a manufacturer's requested policy.
Either my favourite 5 year old or PT should do a little video on sensitivity vs specificity and show why mapdec are totally correct. Also be awesome cover the p to f failure curve for this type of failure. IMO A one off inspection is basically useless unless you have already developed the fault. I.e. it will find the failure but not provide future surety. Passing the inspection is generally considered to be an indication of safety for half the time of the p-f. Which if the evidence of the guy on the show is right could be as little as three weeks. So to be sure you are safe you’d need to inspect every week and a half. That’s not reasonable. A little study from twitter of cranks that have failed post a pass would put more robust numbers to it. But it seems like the marketing department and not the engineering team are in charge of the recall. I love Shimano and have steered away from sram due to dot oil. But my cost benefit has changed…
@@paulgrimshaw8334 [ If Shimano wishes to drop a dealer with cause (as appears to be the case here), that’s their business. ] I disagree. *Aspects* might pertain, but the 'legal game' Shimano (or probably more accurately, their UK distributor/reps) is playing is the stuff of regulatory intervention.
@@georgeforeman89 Exactly. I had started a response to another post as to how the auto industry is regulated in these instances, but I was unable to cite various jurisdictions as to how they regulate consumer items in general (it varies widely). What is much more common in liability is what's termed 'reckless endangerment' (or equiv) in quite a few jurisdictions. And it's criminal in most.
That’s wild!!! You 100 percent did right, it’s Shimano’s recall you can send it to them no matter what. It’s a close world wide recall. Every crank we get we send to SHIMANO no matter, even if we check it. Because like you said. What’s gonna stop it from happening in the future
Also, there's a Class Action suit against Shimano in the United States. Looks like every crank set is going to be replaced in the United States. Why can't Shimano do this world-wide?
@@LeviathandkSounds odd. Sounds like it should be a recall. Shimano are trying to save costs by not calling it a recall instead of doing the right thing. And by not doing the right thing Shimano damage their reputation and open themselves to further claims of negligence or worse. Shimano need better advice themselves and perhaps better leadership.
@@markrushton1516 I think they will eventually be forced to own up to it, but they’re trying to hold that off as long as possible. Once the class action lawsuit wins in the US (which it almost certainly will) the house of cards will most likely fall on them. Hopefully it will do good for other countries, too. I love shimano components, which makes this fuck up so difficult to watch play out.
So imagine in how deep shit is shimano when trying to refuse to solve this small problem. Imagine if it was a car branch issue. There would be no question what to do.
Boeing is a cultural failure. Their management managed deadlines, outlawed functioning teams and discretion. They just established a strong managerial hierarchy whose sole purpose was to abuse their power. Management despite have great education, expertise and titles couldnt build a simple team much less a successful team. The bicycle is a lesson in marketing. Sponsoring a pro team gives sponsors unlimited marketing power. Who needs quality control when you can pay pros to race on junk? My question is this ethical? Dont the pros and sanctioning bodies feel they have to give back to the sport? Protect the culture? Or is it all about the money? Me i refuse to watch cycling anymore. And if i saw a pro on the street i would want to ask them these questions.
So piss poor from Shimano. Obviously there should be a full recall. Massive props to Mapdec for your stance on this. Cheers from Gold Coast, Australia.
I’m an ex bicycle mechanic and very much appreciate your channels and what you guys do. I’ve also been riding Shimano exclusively for almost 40 years across all disciplines. I find Shimano’s approach in handling this recall and, specifically, placing you guys on a banned list very disturbing. Consequently, for the first time in my life, I think my next bike may be equipped with SRAM. For what it’s worth, I’m glad you’ve stuck to your position. I feel strongly that it’s the right one and appreciate your “customer first” approach. Thanks guys. Keep up the good work.
Completely agree, i've generally preferred sram but this is the nail in the coffin for my shimano drivetrains once they die, i binned their brakes years ago for hope or magura.
I 100% agree, they find a great balance of covering tech without dumbing it down and at the same time not bamboozling with buzzwords. I also like the fact its one of the few (only?) bike channel that covers road and MTB without looking down their noses at either.
@@Mapdec bikeshop claimed creaking and 2-3mm movement away and towards the bottom bracket) was perfectly normal when pushing 350-400 watts on a indoor trainer.
A list of banned shops? wow. Shane (GPLama) also didn't receive a Shimano product to review, assuming he also got banned for reviewing its power meter being too fair and honest. I really love that you brought up this topic up as well. People need to know how they manage their brand (aka how to hold grudge 101). All my bikes came stock with Shimano products, but hearing these news affects my choices in the future, probably also unconsciously.
100% with Mapdec. Shimano makes a bad product, puts customers at risk, then puts bike shops in the middle of this mess instead of owning it? Looking at SRAM for next purchase.
No way to go with SRAM shit. Shimano components are the best. Well, except for the cranks, all of my bikes are Shimano equipped, but with Rotor cranksets.
They think they are so BIG and above the law, they are still raking in the money from all the lower end group sets that they sell regardless of what happens in court, when it eventually happens! It would have to be billions € to really shake them up!!!
Mapdec did a great job on my broken crank replacement, no fuss. Shame on Shimano. Typical poor PR absolutely absurd. Note about the audio tho guys, youre super plush setup isnt quite working 😂
The guy on the lefts mic was positioned wrong for the way his head was angled. Hence the cutting out. Maybe your mic filter noise gate was set too high?
50000 🎉 So pleased for you and your staff @Mapdec. Your trustworthy and straight talking style, and putting the customer first, is the benchmark against which I assess all other bike shops and RUclipsrs.
You are seller and service shop. You responsible to your customers when it comes to the parts you sell and service. You are making sure it safe to use and sell. Crank defects are manufacture’s responsibility to deal and fix not the shop. You did your job to customers and shimano is the one messed up and trying to get out of their job. Congrats on the RUclips stats.
My concern with Shimano’s stance suggests they don’t have customer safety as their number 1 priority, seems their accountants are bean counting again! Not great for customer relations, so regardless of Shimano’s current product range I’d really struggle to recommend them if they decide to ban you for doing the right thing. Shame on Shimano’s, this certainly changes my next purchasing decision.
My LBS (who I trust) inspected my crank, it passed. A few months later, it failed half way through a 100m ride, delaminating and partially separating on the right side crank arm. I didn't fully realise what had happened until I got back home, but it felt bad so I held back from putting power through the pedals for the remainder of the ride. I was probably lucky that it didn't completely fail. I find it reprehensible that Shimano continue to make it hard to replace what is clearly a dangerously flawed product. That Shimano/distributors are putting LBS in this position is a disgrace. All this should be documented and sent to however is doing the class action - I feel their behaviour will catch up with them in court sooner or later.
@@Mapdec they took one look at it and processed the replacement. We talked at the time of the initial inspection and once it had failed about how we felt about the shimano process - and they shared that they've been seeing other cases of cranks passing inspection but subsequently failing. I don't blame the LBS though.
@@anthonylarson7919 The point is that these things look fine - until they aren't. If LBS is instructed to look for any warning signs and the signs haven't manifested, what are they to do? Follow the guidance from Shimano or disobey the instructions and risk being blacklisted? The way the recall has been setup is the problem - there should not be any other check than "is this an in-scope serial number".
I actually thought when I watched that vid “bet they don’t like that” But with you 100% All those cranks should be changed under warranty end off . I personally prefer shimano gears but ,,, they want a royal arse kicking for not recall/replace , keep up the good work.
Another annoying thing about the replacement policy is you are not getting a like for like replacement. I had an Ultegra R8000 52/36 crank set fail on inspection ( luckily it was not fitted to a bike) and got a replacement chain set. I also have Ultegra R6800 50/34 chain set on a bike which passed inspection but I’m concerned that it may fail. Since I had a spare chain set, which I believe shouldn’t fail, I decided to buy 50/34 chainrings so I could fit it to my bike. When the chainrings arrived I found they didn’t fit the new chain set. On closer inspection (which I should have done before ordering the new ones) the new chain set is an FC08 chain set not a R8000. I got in touch with Madison and at first they said they couldn’t tell me the part nos I required but would get back to me. Several months passed and I sent another email to Madison and eventually they got back with the part nos I require but I have been unable to find anywhere that has them. The bottom line is that I have a crankset that I can’t fit to a bike with the gearing I want. If Shimano had sent me a like for like replacement there wouldn’t be an issue, all very annoying.
Reviews and testing along with in depth breakdowns of the quality of bike and components is what I come to your channel for so please keep those up. I don’t have the know how to go in depth so I rely on your expert experience before I splash out a lot of money on bikes and components. Upgrading videos are excellent also. Where to spend your money to get value. Keep it up gang! - your “yank” buddy in US
My Shimano dealer says my DA with power meter is fine, and Shimano won’t replace it. I am also sometimes fearful it might still fail. I think Shimano should do a general recall and own the problem.
As a cyclist, I changed my min few years ago on purchase and installation of Shimano crank in my two bikes, there were initial signals about faillures od cranks. Instead I installed s Sram and Rotor with no problems whatsever. Shimano responsibility is to change failing technology, and apologize to customers and workshops for the hassle, health risk and costs related. If Shimano really wants to end up like Adobe, this is excellent opportunity for them. I will not buy anymore any component made and designed by Shimano, I switch to Campagnolo and Sram : ) Easy!
Must admit I was shocked when I watched the video and heard you declare you no longer inspect them which is against the shimano procedure - my crank was inspected in summer 24 and I was informed it passed but I still lack confidence in it and wanted it changed but this is not permitted
We've banned shimano. Once we had our cranksets replaced we sold them immediately and switched to Sram. Shimano knew about this problem for a long time.
Working with our LBS, my wife and I are spec'ing out custom all-road bikes. We went with Dura Ace components, but chose Rotor carbon cranks over the DA as a result of this ongoing recall mess.
This is an open and shut case. Shimano have issued a faulty and dangerous product and were appalling in the handling of it. Any product that is life threatening should go back to Shimano and it’s unfair to put the safely assessment on a bike shop mechanic. It’s clear that some of the faults were obvious and others hidden. No bike shop owner should be responsible to make an assessment that could risk a persons life. I applaud MAPDEC for their stance and hope other shops follow.
What if all the shops said, nah, we're not inspecting anything and we don't want Madison credit. I'd like to see them work that out, let the customers send stuff back to Madison or Shimano and sort all the problems directly with customers. Good luck.
I am still upset with Madison. I bought an Elite Drivo from a well known online retailer when the trainer came out. The trainer was faulty but was intermittent. I would start a work out in Zwift or group ride then all of a sudden the power would drop out or do 2000+. watts. I reported that the trainer is not working correctly and it's either not registering any watts while I'm pedaling or it's 2000+ watts. I sent it back to the retailer and who passed it on to Madison for inspection. They reported it was fine and sent it back to me. This happened numerous times over 2 years. Over this time I had given up and just used my crank based power meter. I eventually plucked up the courage to contact Elite directly. They asked for my files from my trainer and they said there was a fault. They contacted Madison directly under warranty and that I should be refunded. I was sent the trainer back to Madison and received a refund. However, the amount it costs to send the trainer each time has cost me substantially.
It’s too easy for a Local Bike Shop to lose its reputation with just one crankset fail after it passed it. This is part of the problem that a lot of the wholesalers and manufactures do not understand. They think you work for them when in fact you work for the customers. The customers come first so you have been doing the right thing looking after your customers. If I was still working managing the workshop at my LBS I would have done the same thing. As of unfortunately discovered when things go wrong can end up resulting of losing one’s ability to work.
Shimano's handling of "Crankgate" is a textbook example of how NOT to handle a crisis. They should've just replaced all cranks form this series, plain & simple. Total Recall. Period. Shame-ano
I used to really like Shimano and their products, but the more this saga drags out with the failing cranksets the more I am turned off the brand. They really aren’t doing themselves any favors here. I will likely move to SRAM next time. Thanks for making this video and holding Shimano to account.
i'll never switch to SRAM brakes. Their hydros are terrible and ive never seen one more than 10 years old that still worked correctly. Their electronic shifting and derailleur are top notch though.
As someone that used to work with two people that now work at madison warranty. I wouldn’t trust anything they say or do. They have barely any training and only ended up there as they failed as an actual cycle mechanic.
You are quite right Mapdec, for all the reasons you stated. It is your customers who keep your business going, not your suppliers. You want your customers' repeat business, not just a sale and your actions demonstrate that you understand this better than both Shimano and their agent. Kudos to you.
This is what happens when manufacturers become so large they don’t give a shit anymore. This usually comes on the back of poor engineering decisions and lack of testing. This is a mirror of tht Ford Ecoboost debacle.
I have to be honest: when I saw the video, I did think that that was a bit of an interesting stance to take or at least wording to use about that stance...I did raise an eyebrow at what Shimano might think about that given how cagey they were about this issue in particular. However, I am with you and any other bike shop that takes that approach because it is ultimately down to Shimano to inspect and sign off, not bike shops.
You did the right thing. For such companies it’s only a matter of money and statistics. I work as a medical technician in a hospital and notice similar behavior from companies producing medical devices and software. The only advantage for us as a hospital, is that we can threaten to inform the ministry of health. Sometimes that helps because these companies don’t like bad publicity. They don’t like it when their products are publicly under investigation. So it’s good you talk about this👍
To be fair, the video appears to suggest that you did not inspect the cranks, before they were returned to Shimano. It would be sensible business for Shimano to 'ban inspectors' that are paid for inspections, if there is any suggestion that the inspections do no always take place, even if only on occasions. Perhaps adding a note on the video that you did/do inspect, as you have clarified here? Despite the above to me is seems totally correct that it is far better to be safe than sorry and return for exchange SHOULD be the 'norm' as it appears that the level of 'checking' even by experts is certainly not fool-proof! Keep up the videos and the channel. Always informative, entertaining and interesting!
Why Shimano needs to pay someone out of the company to be an "inspector"?Shimano did the cheap way to make a recall,if looks like it is good customer can wait cos they know not all cranks would fail. But that is not the goal of a recall,it is to fix or swap all defective parts. Shimano must pay those 35 bucks just for the shop labor of swapping cracks and had a bike in a corner waiting for the parts. I had like 4 11 speed SLX sifters out of warranty cos the cable cover was missing every single time I check it or my lbs made some maintenance. Last time they give me an XT one and had 0 problems for 3 years .
Sounds like Shimano, should have supplied a detailed book or supplementation for tests to be carried out as what the specs were to equal a 'Pass' or 'Fail'. Furthermore, for Shimano not to be re-inspecting them back at the factory is unprofessional.
I’m a professional engineer who determines life of nuclear reactor and gas turbine components. Once a structure is cracked, the crack grows increasingly quickly. Shimano engineers need to define the acceptable crack size / damage which constitutes a pass and how long before it needs inspecting again. They also need to define the inspection method such as dye penetrant. It sounds like they have not done this and I don’t think they can because it’s a composite material which are notoriously and possibly impossible to life as you can with metals.
The cranks are aluminum parts bonded together. At the moment the bond fails the crank is more or less doomed because it can't withstand the forces any more. It will eventually break apart then, sooner or later.
Well done for taking on the might of Shimano. This mess is purely of their own making. Why LBSs are being told to inspect and pass is beyond me. They should just send them back and replace.
Surprising for a Japanese company. Look at Toyota, if they have a problem they just hold their hands up and get on and fix it. Their brand gets more kudos than if they never had an issue in the first place!
Shimano should be owning the problem and do a no quibbles full recall. Opening up their faithful supply chain partner LBSs to potential liability is really poor behaviour. To have the audacity to add LBSs onto banned lists & demanding removal of videos / journalism reporting on the issue is gutter tactics. I get they are trying to limit damage to their bottom line, but one would argue that resisting replacements is doing reputational damage that will surely cost more in the long run. I’ll certainly be factoring Shimano’s ‘support’ of customers & LBSs into my next purchase.
Thanks for sharing. We own a small bicycle company and we have a different stance on the Shimano crank recall and any other warranty/recall issues. Unless we fit it, build it or service it we do not get involved in other companies warranty issues. We cover the products we provide and wheels we build and take and warranty issues seriously. But as we are so busy it makes no sense for us to get involved with others mistakes. As a wheels builder, we get inquiries about Hunt wheels warranty issues and we blankly refuse this work on them and state to the customer to go directly to Hunt and insist they fix the issue. Same with the Shimano recall. We didn’t cause the issue and therefore we don’t need to be involved unless we physically sold that product. This keeps us safe from liability claims. Happy cycling!
Shimanos 12 speed direct mount chainrings for MTB "model: Deore, SLX and XT"are also prone to coming apart. The screws that hold them together have a habit of coming undone. And you can't easily do a bolt check because they aren't standard screws. I was lucky not to get hurt. Can you please mention this to your viewers. You might just prevent an accident!
Well done Mapdec, when it's all said and done, you came into this world with nothing you'll leave with nothing except the good you did while you were here. Do the best work you can. As for Shimano, if I had one of your cranks, I'd be getting a new one without inspection. You make rubbish, you should make it right.
I'm only 4 mins into the vid, but I have to post this. What's obvious is the Shimano, by virtue of a number of actions, not least having the retailer decide on the 'state' of the examined cranks, effectively shifts the *liability* onto the retailer. Put bluntly and with prejudice: This ffing stinks. First off, absolute kudos for Mapdec doing what it is, and living up to the title (at first I thought it was click-bait), but I see a massive legal action coming out of the revelations this vid presents, Nuff said for now. Shimano had best consult legal counsel, and soon.
I remember posting on a previous video of yours to say this was a total cover up. At the time you replied saying to the effect it wasn’t a big issue. It is a big issue!
In 1990 I bored holes into my 1989 SHIMANO DEORE XT M735 series (alloy) cranks to lighten them.... Everybody who saw them told me the cranks would fail.... As I had an engineering background I laughed at them.... My Marin bike is in my garage today with those cranks still fitted , but the SPD pedals failed a decade ago... My SPD shoes are still fine tho' Before you kids were born stuff was made to last.
I run a couple of bikes, most with Shimano cranks but not the extremely light ones. They are bomb proof, because they have enough structural reserves. They do not break. The affected ones would have lasted if the bonding would have worked, at the moment it failed the crank was doomed to fail completely. The problem is the excessive weight saving, where every possible gram is shaved off. These components have no reserves any more. Such lightweight construction works for aircraft where regular checks are standard but not on a bike over a longer time if it's not checked and if it has a design flaw from beginning on.
I've read, seen and heard a lot about these cranks. Seems to me that the only non-destructive inspection that could give a definitive answer would be some sort of X-ray or ultrasound examination of the bond between the two parts of the crank. A simple visual inspection is not going to detect delamination of the bond within the structure of the crank. As I understand it, bike shops are only asked to do an external visual inspection, which will only detect a bond that is already near total failure. In any case how many local bike shops are going to have X-ray or ultrasound equipment?
The fact that they banned you says a lot. We will leave it there so our shop doesn’t get banned! As to your pod casts, out freaking standing content! Working at a shop that outsources some of the machining that you guys do in house makes your content extra important to me. The ole’ use it or lose it, stands true. Your content keeps me in the loop and lets me continue to learn and grow as a mechanic.
My Ultegra crank was affected as well. Unfortunatelly it happened in the years between it being out of warranty and the announcement of the recall. They deserve all the blame they can get 👍
The whole recall thing was setup just to save shimano money. Instead of replacing every crank like they should have, their passing the (legal) responsibility onto the bike shops.
Well done guys, this kind of recall/not recall situation worries me. As an independent operator, I can't afford to, nor am I qualified to give the thumbs up on a recalled product that has no obvious signs of potential failure. If a company recalls a product, they should be prepared to replace all items in the recall batch and not be selective on it. It's no wonder they're referred to in the industry as Shitmano. Cheers!
I've avoided shinaNO fairly successfully for 45 years, but sadly have a Urethra (sic) groupset on the winter bike as that was all I get hold of. The gear change just is counter intuitive if you use any other groupset. well down on standing your moral ground , and well done on 50k subs
Congratulations on reaching the number of Subs you have attained. I found you via Hambini and I am glad I did because your a great source of information and very a entertaining channel. Your new desk looks great.
Been riding Shimano for 25 years. That ends now. Will not buy anything from a brand like that, that doesn’t give a shit about customers safety and tries to shift the responsibility to the bike shop. Absolutely ridiculous. What a disgrace!
It is worrysome a company as big as Shimano is not handling recalls for a security matter seriously. They've been dragged into the recall and now they are reluctant to handle it properly, despite losing money and harming their reputation.
Shimano's 20-yr-old 6600 cold forged crankset is better than anything shimano makes today. Shimano wanted to lower their manufacturing costs so they came out w bonded aluminum.
In Canada, the inspection had a third option to the pass/Fail, something along the lines of "unsure, shipping to Shimano for further inspection. Shimano lost a lot of customers and confidence in their products fro the way they left riders with cranks that they could not be confident in.
Thanks Mapdec for highlighting the issues behind the product recall. Come on Shimano step up and sort this out… Don’t make me move to a different crankset to get my cycling kicks. For all those moving to SRAM good luck with that… it’s not like they don’t do their R&D on their fan base with released products. I have a mate on his 4th Red AXS groupset due shortfalls in their design and manufacturing processes.
If a part is poorly engineered. Why sell it? Why replace it with a part that is juat going to fail again? As a customer spending £¥$ thousands. Id start looking at another brand that supports it's customera not its brand.
Such a shame shimano are being this way it’s clear your one of the best bike techs in country, I watch you and Yorkshire bike mechanic and always learning Thankyou.
Guys love your channel! Can’t use your shop unfortunately due to distance between us)) I live in Cyprus! Support you in this case! To me SRAM is much better last 5 year for amateur riders! Just sell them more 😂❤
I have an affected Ultegra crankset. I had it inspected by my neighborhood Trek bike shop and they passed it. If it now fails and I'm injured, I'm definitely suing Trek as well as Shimano. How do I know that Trek's inspection was thorough? Every single one of these cranksets should have been replaced, no questions asked. Good for you guys for looking out for your customers. It is inexcuseable to put the bike shop in the liabilty crosshairs. Shimano needs to suck it up and do the right thing by their partners and by their customers.
Well done Paul I remember Hambini reporting his issues with Merlin relating to his issues with a Shimano crank. Maybe not Merlin but Shimano doing the Ostrich routine
if its anything, the sound gating on the mics was set a bit too high either on the mixer board (cutting out words when you guys were talking specifically the left mic), or in post, hope this helps the edit next time :D
In all my years in a regulatory role overseeing serious risk recalls like this, have I ever heard of a retailer being made to assess products. The retailer should just process claims and not be involved in any decision irrespective of liability
Madison are probably the most arrogant bunch I have ever had to deal with. You have done the right thing but there is something you could have potentially done - refusing to participate in this ridiculous recall programme.
When I started as a mobile mechanic I approached them to get a trade account, got told I need to have an actual bricks and mortar shop with bikes in that they’ll need to inspect to see if I’m a good enough standard, and my first order needs to be over £1500.
Yup. Been there myself. Wanted to start a bikefitting business in London, I wanted to buy a 20k bikefitting system and some components. I was politely told to f* off as my expected order volume was too low. We just went with another system instead and bought all Shimano test components through a friend's shop. Too bad as I still do like and endorse Shimano components...
Shimano made an engineering choice, failed to do proper design verification. Nr1. Shimano knew this happened and failed to respond quickly putting users at risk. Nr2. Shimano chose an inspection based recall, which is not a recall by the way. They should have done a full recall. Nr3. Shimano is banning loyal and good shops. Nr4. Shimano is trying to avoid liability by dumping responsibility on the mechanics. Nr5. The only reason i am not blindly shifting over to SRAM is because i dont want Dot5. Cranks will never be Simano anymore with this little history. Shhimano
Integrity is key in this industry especially in this time of times. I don’t think anyone here or your customers would hold it against you for doing the right thing by the customer. After all we are doing this for them :)
Thanks for the insight. It's not a nice situation, no matter on which side you are in the story. PS. Audio is not great if you are not talking in the direction of the mic.
In the event of an accident the plaintiff would likely sue you as the mechanic who made tne negligent representation that the crank passed and was safe to use. They would also likely sue shimano as the manufacturer. Your insurance may not cover you for such a claim and you should seek advice from an insurance broker.
We did that when it was first announced, and our insurance company gave a very hazy answer and just left us with, don’t do anything negligent.
@Mapdec hopeless. So you run the risk if sued as to liability for damages and legal fees which would be considerable
@@Mapdec Insurance companies take the premiums and don’t want to do anything else!
This isn't true ,Shimano were always liable and said so
@@JaiJai-by4tp sadly in a court of law in the UK they would find the shop not Shimano as the guilty party as the Judge would class the shop as the Professional and it would go down as negligence on behalf of the shop. Recall or not.
Getting banned by Shimano is like a badge of honour! You've well and truly made it. What a hero. I think you've done the right thing though. I've seen plenty of bike shops/mechanics on the end of a personal injury claim and it's generally a lose lose scenario. The insurance companies will generally settle. In some cases, the insurance companies have said they won't cover the mechanic due to negligence.
@@paulgrimshaw8334I don’t think Mapdec’s goal was to get back in Shimano’s good graces. It was to point out their huge error. Shimano is playing roulette, and they will eventually lose. The recall itself seems like a joke. Why have bike shops do an inspection at all if they really care about the safety of their customers? In any other industry, recalls generally apply to ALL products made in the specific lot or time frame. Picking and choosing which ones “pass” while pawning off that liability to bike shops is absurd.
@@paulgrimshaw8334 agree. shimano is still replacing cranksets at shops that are following policy guidelines. maintain the trust in your b2b relations, don't openly admit you disregarded a manufacturer's requested policy.
Either my favourite 5 year old or PT should do a little video on sensitivity vs specificity and show why mapdec are totally correct. Also be awesome cover the p to f failure curve for this type of failure. IMO A one off inspection is basically useless unless you have already developed the fault. I.e. it will find the failure but not provide future surety. Passing the inspection is generally considered to be an indication of safety for half the time of the p-f. Which if the evidence of the guy on the show is right could be as little as three weeks. So to be sure you are safe you’d need to inspect every week and a half. That’s not reasonable. A little study from twitter of cranks that have failed post a pass would put more robust numbers to it. But it seems like the marketing department and not the engineering team are in charge of the recall. I love Shimano and have steered away from sram due to dot oil. But my cost benefit has changed…
@@paulgrimshaw8334 [ If Shimano wishes to drop a dealer with cause (as appears to be the case here), that’s their business. ] I disagree. *Aspects* might pertain, but the 'legal game' Shimano (or probably more accurately, their UK distributor/reps) is playing is the stuff of regulatory intervention.
@@georgeforeman89 Exactly. I had started a response to another post as to how the auto industry is regulated in these instances, but I was unable to cite various jurisdictions as to how they regulate consumer items in general (it varies widely). What is much more common in liability is what's termed 'reckless endangerment' (or equiv) in quite a few jurisdictions. And it's criminal in most.
That’s wild!!! You 100 percent did right, it’s Shimano’s recall you can send it to them no matter what. It’s a close world wide recall. Every crank we get we send to SHIMANO no matter, even if we check it. Because like you said. What’s gonna stop it from happening in the future
Thank Grant. Hope all well.
Also, there's a Class Action suit against Shimano in the United States. Looks like every crank set is going to be replaced in the United States. Why can't Shimano do this world-wide?
Shimano is VERY clear that it is not a recall... That ofcourse is laughable. But they are very adamant that it is not a recall
@@LeviathandkSounds odd. Sounds like it should be a recall. Shimano are trying to save costs by not calling it a recall instead of doing the right thing. And by not doing the right thing Shimano damage their reputation and open themselves to further claims of negligence or worse. Shimano need better advice themselves and perhaps better leadership.
Never thought than Shimano can destroy reputation so fast! It’s shame
Its a manufacturing fault. Just own it Shimano.
Absolutely. All the rest is a 'damage limitation' and an attempt to limit financial losses.
@@DP-PhD And an attempt to transfer liability to the mechanic.
@@markrushton1516 I think they will eventually be forced to own up to it, but they’re trying to hold that off as long as possible. Once the class action lawsuit wins in the US (which it almost certainly will) the house of cards will most likely fall on them. Hopefully it will do good for other countries, too. I love shimano components, which makes this fuck up so difficult to watch play out.
So imagine in how deep shit is shimano when trying to refuse to solve this small problem.
Imagine if it was a car branch issue. There would be no question what to do.
Shimano doesn't provide a written warranty for a lot of their products because they don't want to be held liable under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.
Shimano knowing full well about their bonded cranks issue since 2011 but blagging any responsibilty for over a decade is quite something
Shame on them. Safety shouldn’t be risked.
aluminum doesn't fail all of a sudden there are signs but shimano acting is shameless
Good on you for standing up for your customers....shame on Shimano for not doing the same.
Come on SHIMANO - do the right thing…
If Shimano cranks weren't below standard, they wouldn't have a problem.
Mapdec, be proud of your integrity, customers will know who is right here.
Shimano, the Boeing of cycling.
Boeing is a cultural failure. Their management managed deadlines, outlawed functioning teams and discretion. They just established a strong managerial hierarchy whose sole purpose was to abuse their power. Management despite have great education, expertise and titles couldnt build a simple team much less a successful team.
The bicycle is a lesson in marketing. Sponsoring a pro team gives sponsors unlimited marketing power. Who needs quality control when you can pay pros to race on junk?
My question is this ethical? Dont the pros and sanctioning bodies feel they have to give back to the sport? Protect the culture? Or is it all about the money?
Me i refuse to watch cycling anymore. And if i saw a pro on the street i would want to ask them these questions.
@@javiersmith2216At some point some Chinese company will replace them, bad customer and high prices is not a winning concept
So piss poor from Shimano. Obviously there should be a full recall.
Massive props to Mapdec for your stance on this.
Cheers from Gold Coast, Australia.
I’m an ex bicycle mechanic and very much appreciate your channels and what you guys do. I’ve also been riding Shimano exclusively for almost 40 years across all disciplines. I find Shimano’s approach in handling this recall and, specifically, placing you guys on a banned list very disturbing. Consequently, for the first time in my life, I think my next bike may be equipped with SRAM. For what it’s worth, I’m glad you’ve stuck to your position. I feel strongly that it’s the right one and appreciate your “customer first” approach. Thanks guys. Keep up the good work.
Completely agree, i've generally preferred sram but this is the nail in the coffin for my shimano drivetrains once they die, i binned their brakes years ago for hope or magura.
@@benlisle7623the 12 speed road brakes are the best in the business
seeing some of the things Mapdec does the ban is justified.
@@anthonylarson7919 Like what exactly? I don't expect a reply but let's see
@@bongobob7079 well, by not following Shimano's instructions...
I love how this channel don`t resort into click-baiting and do quality videos about technical ("boring") subjects
I 100% agree, they find a great balance of covering tech without dumbing it down and at the same time not bamboozling with buzzwords. I also like the fact its one of the few (only?) bike channel that covers road and MTB without looking down their noses at either.
Shimano basically wants you to risk your reputation in order to salvage theirs. Not even for $3,500 per inspection reimbursement. What a joke.
Well said. Wish I thought of that.
I crashed hard because a crank didnt get replaced after 2 inspections. Waiting for a court date here in Denmark ( yes i’m suing Shimano )
Good luck 🍀👍
Oh wow. And what is the involvement of the bike shop that passed it twice? Would be very interested to know how involved they are.
@@Mapdec bikeshop claimed creaking and 2-3mm movement away and towards the bottom bracket) was perfectly normal when pushing 350-400 watts on a indoor trainer.
@@AndersKjærsgaardankjaers oh. Ouch!!!
@@Mapdec looking at the remains of the parts it’s very evident that the part should have been replaced.
Shimano, the only company that manages to make a bad situation even worse throwing their toys out of the pram.
*Nintendo
Giant UK says "Hold my beer and watch this..."
@@m__r1100 You can add Giant NZ to that list - absolute clowns
*the latest company in a huge list of previous companies to do the same
Jamis Dakar Frames not being warateed for swingarms that broke over and over about 15 years ago.... and Ellsworth crap...
A list of banned shops? wow. Shane (GPLama) also didn't receive a Shimano product to review, assuming he also got banned for reviewing its power meter being too fair and honest. I really love that you brought up this topic up as well. People need to know how they manage their brand (aka how to hold grudge 101).
All my bikes came stock with Shimano products, but hearing these news affects my choices in the future, probably also unconsciously.
100% with Mapdec. Shimano makes a bad product, puts customers at risk, then puts bike shops in the middle of this mess instead of owning it? Looking at SRAM for next purchase.
No way to go with SRAM shit. Shimano components are the best. Well, except for the cranks, all of my bikes are Shimano equipped, but with Rotor cranksets.
@@romanpramuka2703 shimano lover XD. Just love shity di2 cabels and ball bearings in hubs...
Yeah Sram been killing it lately
@@romanpramuka2703 Bless your heart.
So is Campy! 😀
Don’t worry Shitamano! Our cycling club has slowly moved on to Sram. So 60 club members will be safer.
Frankly, Shitmano can get fucked. They haven’t dealt with this well at all.
They think they are so BIG and above the law, they are still raking in the money from all the lower end group sets that they sell regardless of what happens in court, when it eventually happens! It would have to be billions € to really shake them up!!!
Thats why load of bike companies have dumped their motors
@@megane230f1exactly. Looks like Santa Cruz are the latest
Mapdec did a great job on my broken crank replacement, no fuss. Shame on Shimano. Typical poor PR absolutely absurd. Note about the audio tho guys, youre super plush setup isnt quite working 😂
Still need to remember to speak into the mic. Glad we got yours sorted.
The guy on the lefts mic was positioned wrong for the way his head was angled. Hence the cutting out. Maybe your mic filter noise gate was set too high?
Thank you! This was so annoying to listen...
The green cables are visually distracting. I realise that they're in Mapdec corporate colours!
This crank thing is one of the badly managed recalls on the planet. Shimano blaiming bike shops and banning them is beyond ridiculous
50000 🎉 So pleased for you and your staff @Mapdec. Your trustworthy and straight talking style, and putting the customer first, is the benchmark against which I assess all other bike shops and RUclipsrs.
You are seller and service shop. You responsible to your customers when it comes to the parts you sell and service. You are making sure it safe to use and sell. Crank defects are manufacture’s responsibility to deal and fix not the shop. You did your job to customers and shimano is the one messed up and trying to get out of their job. Congrats on the RUclips stats.
Thank you 🙏
My concern with Shimano’s stance suggests they don’t have customer safety as their number 1 priority, seems their accountants are bean counting again! Not great for customer relations, so regardless of Shimano’s current product range I’d really struggle to recommend them if they decide to ban you for doing the right thing. Shame on Shimano’s, this certainly changes my next purchasing decision.
My LBS (who I trust) inspected my crank, it passed. A few months later, it failed half way through a 100m ride, delaminating and partially separating on the right side crank arm. I didn't fully realise what had happened until I got back home, but it felt bad so I held back from putting power through the pedals for the remainder of the ride. I was probably lucky that it didn't completely fail. I find it reprehensible that Shimano continue to make it hard to replace what is clearly a dangerously flawed product. That Shimano/distributors are putting LBS in this position is a disgrace. All this should be documented and sent to however is doing the class action - I feel their behaviour will catch up with them in court sooner or later.
oh wow. How did your shop respond?
@@Mapdec they took one look at it and processed the replacement. We talked at the time of the initial inspection and once it had failed about how we felt about the shimano process - and they shared that they've been seeing other cases of cranks passing inspection but subsequently failing. I don't blame the LBS though.
@@richjacques how can you not ..????? your LBS failed you period. And they admitted to failing others as well... adios LBS
@@anthonylarson7919 The point is that these things look fine - until they aren't. If LBS is instructed to look for any warning signs and the signs haven't manifested, what are they to do? Follow the guidance from Shimano or disobey the instructions and risk being blacklisted? The way the recall has been setup is the problem - there should not be any other check than "is this an in-scope serial number".
I actually thought when I watched that vid “bet they don’t like that”
But with you 100%
All those cranks should be changed under warranty end off .
I personally prefer shimano gears but ,,, they want a royal arse kicking for not recall/replace , keep up the good work.
Another annoying thing about the replacement policy is you are not getting a like for like replacement. I had an Ultegra R8000 52/36 crank set fail on inspection ( luckily it was not fitted to a bike) and got a replacement chain set. I also have Ultegra R6800 50/34 chain set on a bike which passed inspection but I’m concerned that it may fail. Since I had a spare chain set, which I believe shouldn’t fail, I decided to buy 50/34 chainrings so I could fit it to my bike. When the chainrings arrived I found they didn’t fit the new chain set. On closer inspection (which I should have done before ordering the new ones) the new chain set is an FC08 chain set not a R8000. I got in touch with Madison and at first they said they couldn’t tell me the part nos I required but would get back to me. Several months passed and I sent another email to Madison and eventually they got back with the part nos I require but I have been unable to find anywhere that has them.
The bottom line is that I have a crankset that I can’t fit to a bike with the gearing I want. If Shimano had sent me a like for like replacement there wouldn’t be an issue, all very annoying.
Reviews and testing along with in depth breakdowns of the quality of bike and components is what I come to your channel for so please keep those up. I don’t have the know how to go in depth so I rely on your expert experience before I splash out a lot of money on bikes and components. Upgrading videos are excellent also. Where to spend your money to get value. Keep it up gang! - your “yank” buddy in US
I appreciate that! Thank you.
My Shimano dealer says my DA with power meter is fine, and Shimano won’t replace it. I am also sometimes fearful it might still fail. I think Shimano should do a general recall and own the problem.
As a cyclist, I changed my min few years ago on purchase and installation of Shimano crank in my two bikes, there were initial signals about faillures od cranks. Instead I installed s Sram and Rotor with no problems whatsever. Shimano responsibility is to change failing technology, and apologize to customers and workshops for the hassle, health risk and costs related.
If Shimano really wants to end up like Adobe, this is excellent opportunity for them. I will not buy anymore any component made and designed by Shimano, I switch to Campagnolo and Sram : ) Easy!
Must admit I was shocked when I watched the video and heard you declare you no longer inspect them which is against the shimano procedure - my crank was inspected in summer 24 and I was informed it passed but I still lack confidence in it and wanted it changed but this is not permitted
We've banned shimano.
Once we had our cranksets replaced we sold them immediately and switched to Sram. Shimano knew about this problem for a long time.
Working with our LBS, my wife and I are spec'ing out custom all-road bikes. We went with Dura Ace components, but chose Rotor carbon cranks over the DA as a result of this ongoing recall mess.
This is an open and shut case. Shimano have issued a faulty and dangerous product and were appalling in the handling of it. Any product that is life threatening should go back to Shimano and it’s unfair to put the safely assessment on a bike shop mechanic. It’s clear that some of the faults were obvious and others hidden. No bike shop owner should be responsible to make an assessment that could risk a persons life. I applaud MAPDEC for their stance and hope other shops follow.
What if all the shops said, nah, we're not inspecting anything and we don't want Madison credit. I'd like to see them work that out, let the customers send stuff back to Madison or Shimano and sort all the problems directly with customers. Good luck.
Quite.
@@Mapdec I'm still laughing at Madison banning you. Drama queens.
I am still upset with Madison. I bought an Elite Drivo from a well known online retailer when the trainer came out. The trainer was faulty but was intermittent. I would start a work out in Zwift or group ride then all of a sudden the power would drop out or do 2000+. watts. I reported that the trainer is not working correctly and it's either not registering any watts while I'm pedaling or it's 2000+ watts. I sent it back to the retailer and who passed it on to Madison for inspection. They reported it was fine and sent it back to me. This happened numerous times over 2 years. Over this time I had given up and just used my crank based power meter. I eventually plucked up the courage to contact Elite directly. They asked for my files from my trainer and they said there was a fault. They contacted Madison directly under warranty and that I should be refunded. I was sent the trainer back to Madison and received a refund. However, the amount it costs to send the trainer each time has cost me substantially.
As a former Cycling International in my youth and now 65 , I have always used Campagnolo Super Record ! ☺
Shame on you Shimano....... but
Congratulations on 50k. Love your channel I've been with you from the start. Keep up your honesty 👍🏻
It’s too easy for a Local Bike Shop to lose its reputation with just one crankset fail after it passed it.
This is part of the problem that a lot of the wholesalers and manufactures do not understand. They think you work for them when in fact you work for the customers.
The customers come first so you have been doing the right thing looking after your customers.
If I was still working managing the workshop at my LBS I would have done the same thing.
As of unfortunately discovered when things go wrong can end up resulting of losing one’s ability to work.
Shimano's handling of "Crankgate" is a textbook example of how NOT to handle a crisis. They should've just replaced all cranks form this series, plain & simple. Total Recall. Period.
Shame-ano
I used to really like Shimano and their products, but the more this saga drags out with the failing cranksets the more I am turned off the brand. They really aren’t doing themselves any favors here. I will likely move to SRAM next time. Thanks for making this video and holding Shimano to account.
i'll never switch to SRAM brakes. Their hydros are terrible and ive never seen one more than 10 years old that still worked correctly. Their electronic shifting and derailleur are top notch though.
Problem is that SRAM is even more s..t and has even more problems with its products. That leaves Campagnolo then...
As someone that used to work with two people that now work at madison warranty. I wouldn’t trust anything they say or do. They have barely any training and only ended up there as they failed as an actual cycle mechanic.
I'm glad to see that the channel is growing. The videos have always been informative no matter the budget.
You are quite right Mapdec, for all the reasons you stated. It is your customers who keep your business going, not your suppliers. You want your customers' repeat business, not just a sale and your actions demonstrate that you understand this better than both Shimano and their agent. Kudos to you.
You could say you no longer have a strong bond with Shimano...
😂 I see what you did there
I’m already leaning toward SRAM for future builds and this seals it for me.
This is what happens when manufacturers become so large they don’t give a shit anymore. This usually comes on the back of poor engineering decisions and lack of testing. This is a mirror of tht Ford Ecoboost debacle.
This is all about marketing. If you pay the pros enough they will ride junk. Shimano out spent their competitors and now the pros are pushing crack.
I have to be honest: when I saw the video, I did think that that was a bit of an interesting stance to take or at least wording to use about that stance...I did raise an eyebrow at what Shimano might think about that given how cagey they were about this issue in particular. However, I am with you and any other bike shop that takes that approach because it is ultimately down to Shimano to inspect and sign off, not bike shops.
If they got paid for doing nothing this is their fault
You did the right thing. For such companies it’s only a matter of money and statistics. I work as a medical technician in a hospital and notice similar behavior from companies producing medical devices and software. The only advantage for us as a hospital, is that we can threaten to inform the ministry of health. Sometimes that helps because these companies don’t like bad publicity. They don’t like it when their products are publicly under investigation.
So it’s good you talk about this👍
To be fair, the video appears to suggest that you did not inspect the cranks, before they were returned to Shimano. It would be sensible business for Shimano to 'ban inspectors' that are paid for inspections, if there is any suggestion that the inspections do no always take place, even if only on occasions.
Perhaps adding a note on the video that you did/do inspect, as you have clarified here?
Despite the above to me is seems totally correct that it is far better to be safe than sorry and return for exchange SHOULD be the 'norm' as it appears that the level of 'checking' even by experts is certainly not fool-proof!
Keep up the videos and the channel. Always informative, entertaining and interesting!
Why Shimano needs to pay someone out of the company to be an "inspector"?Shimano did the cheap way to make a recall,if looks like it is good customer can wait cos they know not all cranks would fail. But that is not the goal of a recall,it is to fix or swap all defective parts. Shimano must pay those 35 bucks just for the shop labor of swapping cracks and had a bike in a corner waiting for the parts.
I had like 4 11 speed SLX sifters out of warranty cos the cable cover was missing every single time I check it or my lbs made some maintenance. Last time they give me an XT one and had 0 problems for 3 years .
Nice job guys!!! Much respect!!!
Sounds like Shimano, should have supplied a detailed book or supplementation for tests to be carried out as what the specs were to equal a 'Pass' or 'Fail'.
Furthermore, for Shimano not to be re-inspecting them back at the factory is unprofessional.
I’m a professional engineer who determines life of nuclear reactor and gas turbine components. Once a structure is cracked, the crack grows increasingly quickly. Shimano engineers need to define the acceptable crack size / damage which constitutes a pass and how long before it needs inspecting again. They also need to define the inspection method such as dye penetrant. It sounds like they have not done this and I don’t think they can because it’s a composite material which are notoriously and possibly impossible to life as you can with metals.
Thanks for the insight. Very interesting
The acceptable flaw size is none allowed within the capability of the inspection, and it should be dye penetrant, eddy current, or ultrasonic NDT'd
The cranks are aluminum parts bonded together. At the moment the bond fails the crank is more or less doomed because it can't withstand the forces any more. It will eventually break apart then, sooner or later.
Well done for taking on the might of Shimano. This mess is purely of their own making. Why LBSs are being told to inspect and pass is beyond me. They should just send them back and replace.
Shano blaming YOU for their poor manufacturing is absolute peak shimano.
Surprising for a Japanese company. Look at Toyota, if they have a problem they just hold their hands up and get on and fix it. Their brand gets more kudos than if they never had an issue in the first place!
Shimano should be owning the problem and do a no quibbles full recall. Opening up their faithful supply chain partner LBSs to potential liability is really poor behaviour. To have the audacity to add LBSs onto banned lists & demanding removal of videos / journalism reporting on the issue is gutter tactics. I get they are trying to limit damage to their bottom line, but one would argue that resisting replacements is doing reputational damage that will surely cost more in the long run. I’ll certainly be factoring Shimano’s ‘support’ of customers & LBSs into my next purchase.
Well done for speaking on behalf of the little guy
Thanks for sharing. We own a small bicycle company and we have a different stance on the Shimano crank recall and any other warranty/recall issues. Unless we fit it, build it or service it we do not get involved in other companies warranty issues. We cover the products we provide and wheels we build and take and warranty issues seriously. But as we are so busy it makes no sense for us to get involved with others mistakes. As a wheels builder, we get inquiries about Hunt wheels warranty issues and we blankly refuse this work on them and state to the customer to go directly to Hunt and insist they fix the issue. Same with the Shimano recall. We didn’t cause the issue and therefore we don’t need to be involved unless we physically sold that product. This keeps us safe from liability claims. Happy cycling!
Shimanos 12 speed direct mount chainrings for MTB "model: Deore, SLX and XT"are also prone to coming apart. The screws that hold them together have a habit of coming undone. And you can't easily do a bolt check because they aren't standard screws. I was lucky not to get hurt. Can you please mention this to your viewers. You might just prevent an accident!
Well done Mapdec, when it's all said and done, you came into this world with nothing you'll leave with nothing except the good you did while you were here. Do the best work you can. As for Shimano, if I had one of your cranks, I'd be getting a new one without inspection. You make rubbish, you should make it right.
I'm only 4 mins into the vid, but I have to post this. What's obvious is the Shimano, by virtue of a number of actions, not least having the retailer decide on the 'state' of the examined cranks, effectively shifts the *liability* onto the retailer.
Put bluntly and with prejudice: This ffing stinks.
First off, absolute kudos for Mapdec doing what it is, and living up to the title (at first I thought it was click-bait), but I see a massive legal action coming out of the revelations this vid presents,
Nuff said for now. Shimano had best consult legal counsel, and soon.
I remember posting on a previous video of yours to say this was a total cover up. At the time you replied saying to the effect it wasn’t a big issue. It is a big issue!
Oh wow. I have to admit I never saw this coming.
For us customers this is a very clear sign from which company we shouldn't buy any components.
Promise you'll do us another video covering how Madison and Shimano react to this one!
In 1990 I bored holes into my 1989 SHIMANO DEORE XT M735 series (alloy) cranks to lighten them.... Everybody who saw them told me the cranks would fail....
As I had an engineering background I laughed at them.... My Marin bike is in my garage today with those cranks still fitted , but the SPD pedals failed a decade ago...
My SPD shoes are still fine tho'
Before you kids were born stuff was made to last.
I run a couple of bikes, most with Shimano cranks but not the extremely light ones. They are bomb proof, because they have enough structural reserves. They do not break.
The affected ones would have lasted if the bonding would have worked, at the moment it failed the crank was doomed to fail completely. The problem is the excessive weight saving, where every possible gram is shaved off. These components have no reserves any more.
Such lightweight construction works for aircraft where regular checks are standard but not on a bike over a longer time if it's not checked and if it has a design flaw from beginning on.
Always preferred Shimano over SRAM but time for a change after all this.
Unrelated question (but that’s because the quality is great!): what mics, recorder and cables are you using? Thanks!
When re remember to talk the right direction. Rode NTG1 and Tascam X8
I've read, seen and heard a lot about these cranks. Seems to me that the only non-destructive inspection that could give a definitive answer would be some sort of X-ray or ultrasound examination of the bond between the two parts of the crank. A simple visual inspection is not going to detect delamination of the bond within the structure of the crank. As I understand it, bike shops are only asked to do an external visual inspection, which will only detect a bond that is already near total failure. In any case how many local bike shops are going to have X-ray or ultrasound equipment?
Shimano shocking way to act,im with you on this you did right. And table is spot on 👍
The fact that they banned you says a lot. We will leave it there so our shop doesn’t get banned!
As to your pod casts, out freaking standing content! Working at a shop that outsources some of the machining that you guys do in house makes your content extra important to me. The ole’ use it or lose it, stands true. Your content keeps me in the loop and lets me continue to learn and grow as a mechanic.
My Ultegra crank was affected as well. Unfortunatelly it happened in the years between it being out of warranty and the announcement of the recall. They deserve all the blame they can get 👍
The whole recall thing was setup just to save shimano money. Instead of replacing every crank like they should have, their passing the (legal) responsibility onto the bike shops.
Well done guys, this kind of recall/not recall situation worries me. As an independent operator, I can't afford to, nor am I qualified to give the thumbs up on a recalled product that has no obvious signs of potential failure. If a company recalls a product, they should be prepared to replace all items in the recall batch and not be selective on it. It's no wonder they're referred to in the industry as Shitmano. Cheers!
I've avoided shinaNO fairly successfully for 45 years, but sadly have a Urethra (sic) groupset on the winter bike as that was all I get hold of. The gear change just is counter intuitive if you use any other groupset. well down on standing your moral ground , and well done on 50k subs
Congratulations on reaching the number of Subs you have attained. I found you via Hambini and I am glad I did because your a great source of information and very a entertaining channel. Your new desk looks great.
Woa shimano thank you for recaliing your stuff 11 years later BUUUUUT you would still dump the final decision on a bike shop. Standing applause...
Been riding Shimano for 25 years. That ends now. Will not buy anything from a brand like that, that doesn’t give a shit about customers safety and tries to shift the responsibility to the bike shop. Absolutely ridiculous. What a disgrace!
You have done the right thing, always defending the consumer and safety.
You guys are spot on on, a shame integrity is lacking in so many places these days. Nifty desk, I like it going up and down, could save on back ache.
Honest mechanics!! Good job! Support you 1000000%
It is worrysome a company as big as Shimano is not handling recalls for a security matter seriously. They've been dragged into the recall and now they are reluctant to handle it properly, despite losing money and harming their reputation.
Shimano's 20-yr-old 6600 cold forged crankset is better than anything shimano makes today. Shimano wanted to lower their manufacturing costs so they came out w bonded aluminum.
Or better yet, the 7800 :P
Hope this wakes up some people, and they think well before selecting parts for their new bike. You absolutely did the right ting.
In Canada, the inspection had a third option to the pass/Fail, something along the lines of "unsure, shipping to Shimano for further inspection. Shimano lost a lot of customers and confidence in their products fro the way they left riders with cranks that they could not be confident in.
Thanks Mapdec for highlighting the issues behind the product recall. Come on Shimano step up and sort this out… Don’t make me move to a different crankset to get my cycling kicks.
For all those moving to SRAM good luck with that… it’s not like they don’t do their R&D on their fan base with released products. I have a mate on his 4th Red AXS groupset due shortfalls in their design and manufacturing processes.
If a part is poorly engineered. Why sell it? Why replace it with a part that is juat going to fail again? As a customer spending £¥$ thousands. Id start looking at another brand that supports it's customera not its brand.
Such a shame shimano are being this way it’s clear your one of the best bike techs in country, I watch you and Yorkshire bike mechanic and always learning Thankyou.
Guys love your channel! Can’t use your shop unfortunately due to distance between us)) I live in Cyprus!
Support you in this case!
To me SRAM is much better last 5 year for amateur riders! Just sell them more 😂❤
Shimano should not even require inspection or bike shop intervention. They should just take them directly from consumers.
I have an affected Ultegra crankset. I had it inspected by my neighborhood Trek bike shop and they passed it. If it now fails and I'm injured, I'm definitely suing Trek as well as Shimano. How do I know that Trek's inspection was thorough? Every single one of these cranksets should have been replaced, no questions asked. Good for you guys for looking out for your customers. It is inexcuseable to put the bike shop in the liabilty crosshairs. Shimano needs to suck it up and do the right thing by their partners and by their customers.
That says more about you than the trek shop
Well done Paul I remember Hambini reporting his issues with Merlin relating to his issues with a Shimano crank. Maybe not Merlin but Shimano doing the Ostrich routine
if its anything, the sound gating on the mics was set a bit too high either on the mixer board (cutting out words when you guys were talking specifically the left mic), or in post, hope this helps the edit next time :D
In all my years in a regulatory role overseeing serious risk recalls like this, have I ever heard of a retailer being made to assess products. The retailer should just process claims and not be involved in any decision irrespective of liability
Madison are probably the most arrogant bunch I have ever had to deal with. You have done the right thing but there is something you could have potentially done - refusing to participate in this ridiculous recall programme.
When I started as a mobile mechanic I approached them to get a trade account, got told I need to have an actual bricks and mortar shop with bikes in that they’ll need to inspect to see if I’m a good enough standard, and my first order needs to be over £1500.
Yup. Been there myself. Wanted to start a bikefitting business in London, I wanted to buy a 20k bikefitting system and some components. I was politely told to f* off as my expected order volume was too low. We just went with another system instead and bought all Shimano test components through a friend's shop. Too bad as I still do like and endorse Shimano components...
Shimano made an engineering choice, failed to do proper design verification. Nr1.
Shimano knew this happened and failed to respond quickly putting users at risk. Nr2.
Shimano chose an inspection based recall, which is not a recall by the way. They should have done a full recall. Nr3.
Shimano is banning loyal and good shops. Nr4.
Shimano is trying to avoid liability by dumping responsibility on the mechanics. Nr5.
The only reason i am not blindly shifting over to SRAM is because i dont want Dot5.
Cranks will never be Simano anymore with this little history.
Shhimano
Integrity is key in this industry especially in this time of times. I don’t think anyone here or your customers would hold it against you for doing the right thing by the customer. After all we are doing this for them :)
You are spot on and I would say it is backed up if they couldn't tell either and sent them off anyway. Good on you!
Thanks for the insight. It's not a nice situation, no matter on which side you are in the story.
PS. Audio is not great if you are not talking in the direction of the mic.