Hydroponics Safety: Conventional vs. Organic Hydroponics
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- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Are "Organic" nutrients really better for your system or for you customers? Find out in this video from expert Dr. Nate Storey of Bright Agrotech.
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Thanks for that.. Not many folks think about where their organic inputs are coming from & just except they are better blindly..
Cheers..
Agreed, Rob Bob!
Guano and Rock Phosphate are not sustainable. It is a shame much of these phosphates are being mined far away only to be washed out into the ocean.
Trees and Fungi are excellent scavengers of phosphates. In soil, these should be used instead of continuous adding of mined phosphates. Even in a closed loop aquaponics system it might be useful to add some leaf compost.
You're right Rob Bob. It's amazing that some modern fertilizers are more sustainable that some organic ones! It just depends on the input, location and situation.
Bright Agrotech
Hydrofluoric Acid is dangerous stuff that has a huge negative environmental impact. Even using phosphate fertilizers can cause Fluorine build up in the soil. This negatively effects plant growth, as seen in India where Fluoride levels have become too high due to pollution.
So ,why FARMERS are said that they are using fertilizers then they are also right
"Organic" is a government label people purchase. It does not mean it is good.
good point. Many of our farmers tout that their produce grown in Towers hydroponically is "better than organic" since it does not come into contact with any contamination in soil or pesticides. Fresh is best!
@@ZipGrowInc There is good "conventional" food. There is good "organic" food. There is good "beyond organic" food. There are bad examples of each too. I'd take a conventional carrot grown by a neighbor in nice black soil over an organic one fertilized with sewage any day.
I think on average though, organic is better than conventional. Beyond organic (intentionally cultivated for health) is far better than most certified organic foods. In reality, great food can be produced with or without soil.
can you speak to the sustainability issues surrounding limiting phosphate resources and the fossil fuel required to generate nitrogen for hydroponic systems. Also, do you think that hydroponic vegetables may be healthier than aquaponically grown veggies since as you say, hydroponically grown plants have a more reliable and balanced nutrient source available to them at all times - have you tested this directly with your systems because this is something I am very interested in?
Hi Rachel, That's a tall order to address.There are serious issues with phosphate, but there is a lot of recoverable phosphate in waste streams that unfortunately won't be accessed until the natural phosphate starts to become scarce. Synthesized N fert. can actually be more sustainable than organic forms when those organic forms are mined and transported- just depends. Hydroponic veggies have been looked at by quite a few researchers and in a lot of instances they are more healthy than field vegetables. I think it's safe to say that if there are no deficiencies during production, the produce will be better for you than produce from deficient plants. . . There's quite a bit of research on this subject though. You should be able to find it fairly easily.
So...what is a nicely sustainable but totally organic liquid fertilizer/nutrient product that I can use if I decide to go with organic over conventional (which I am 100% sure I will)? (and where do I get it online?)
Glen Wolf I need this answer
learn about JADAM / Korean natural farming and Syntropic Farming
What did you find that was organic?
I'm concerned with BRIX. Do you get similar BRIX readings in your conventional system?
I don't think refined nutrients are better than nutrients that exist in natural compound form. I believe produce that is grown with refined nutrients looks good but it is lacking something in comparison with natural organic produce.
How are hydroponic waters disposed of after it has run its cycle? Is it safe to dump out anywhere?
Thanks Nate
We have this conversation weekly at the market and almost never at the farm. When most people see the hydroponics system they are amazed at how much better the crops appear than the dirt grown in the same environment.
Some people become very upset about it demanding if it diddnt come from compost it is bad for you. It all comes down to getting the right information.
That's right, Jeff Davies - Thanks for chiming in!
"the right information" or we agree with it
Great job, explained the whole thing wonderfully!
Glad you found it useful Dustin Brookens
Have we been eating conventional produce for a long time? Less than 100 years..
Get a 10kg of MasterBlend and be done with it! add Seaweed extract for the weeks prior to harvest to improve taste and stop the MB. That's my 10c. Those organic nutes aren't cost-effective, a tiny bottle for 50gbp or sack that will last you 2-years. Your choice. It's all fancy logo and gimmicks.
Thanks for the clear explanation. 🔥🔥🔥🔥
The issue isn't so much "is it safe," but what industry are you support and what is that industry's impact on environmental degradation and climate change. When we use petroleum-based nutrients, we're supporting some of the biggest offenders.
Yes fair point Melody. You have to observe from all angles. At ZipGrow we recommend and sell clean nutrients to our farmers and home growers and are consistently partnering with new vendors that offer more sustainable solutions.
This topic discusses the use in hydro/aqua systems but what about the talk about soil fertility. Studies have shown that the use of synthetics (fertilizers/pesticides/fungicides) destroy bacterial/microbial life. For people who grow in soil the health of the soil is the most important thing. Most people who believe this focus on incredible approaches to composting and minimal amendments to achieve a living soil. The sustainability word was also thrown around but do we consider the sustainability of fossil fuels that are used to derive such conventional products or even to mine or extract some organic products? One day we may only be able to rely on locality and this will drive the real sustainability issue.
You're thinking about it the right way Adam- There are a lot of variables and we need to think them all through with long term health, nutrition and environmental well-being in mind.
I dont have any idea abt aquaponics i just know few basics. Nitrate can be provided by fish waste but how are other nutrients provided in aquaponics? Do we use chemical/organic additives or that is also produced by fish waste???? Plz guide in short ..
Hello Atul, Thanks for the question. Most of the other nutrients are provided through the fish feed but a lot depends on the type of fish as well as the type of feed. Phosphorus and Iron are often supplemented if adequate ranges aren't already present in solution.
I hate the mentality of uhr uhr chemical bad natural good
at the end everything is chemicals
So why do you think organic farming is promoted everywhere? Is it that we can't use organic liquid fertilizers for hydroponics?
Thanks.
Hey Shraddha, great question. To many consumers, organic is still the best representation of trust that they can get. Gradually, however, local small farmers are offering a more sincere label. There actually are organic hydroponic fertilizers (Hort Americas offers a few), but they are much more difficult to use as they essentially replace the fish in aquaponics; all of the nutrients are in an organic form, which means more solids and that farmers need to cycle the system.
Respectfully disagree
how about the seeds ur using
aren’t they GMOs
dude you kick major green thumb.. nitrates .. awesome
Thanks 👍 Happy Growing!
Great video I have been hoping that you would go over this information. I have been doing a lot of reading about the subject and a lot of the organic resources are not harvested sustainably at all, just like you said, and some of the process that are used to recover the organic material contributes more to pollution than you would think. Thanks!
Yep. That's why we recommend everyone does their own research and makes their own decisions regarding the nutrient sources they use. Thanks for watching!
If both hydroponics, organics and conventional are safe then why many people who are into eating healthy prefer organics?? I don't think it's because of nothing.
Exactly
Marketing for many years has pushed that organic is more safe than conventional farming. Hidroculture is just starting in a few years things will change.
Thank for this informative video
You're welcome, Apolo J. Cátala
Huh? 'Mined' organic nitrate? If you use mined organic nitrate your crop shouldn't be labeled 'organic'. At least in Europe that would be illegal...
if any synthetic fertilizers is involved that no longer organic. nitrate is nitrate but what is the source? if it is obtains naturally, its organic, if other wise your product is no longer organic
What a bunch of bunch.
How can you call it organic ?
What do you consider organic?
How can it be organic when chemical nutrients are being used?
I can't grasp this concept?
OK I get what you are saying....but the taste of some of the organic produce in Whole Foods is sooooooooooo much better than the walmart produce grown conventionally...why? Also, how are synthetic nutrients produced (chemical reactions?) versus nutrients that are found naturally in nature. ???? I'm no chemist LOL
I personally buy organic due to the toxic pesticide issue since I have Lupus and avoiding toxic chemicals helps me avoid flare ups. For instance, I don't avoid GMOs because I'm afraid of science & evolution but because GMOs require more pesticides that I must avoid due to my disease...........again, this is the whole point in MY choice of organic produce. MY Rh Negative blood type & extremely efficient immune system recognizes "lab creations" as foreign invaders that trigger an autoimmune response. I ran a fever for TWENTY YEARS until I stopped poisoning myself.
How to become organic, yourself, just use white plastic to grow your plants in, use it for your pipes, use it for your tanks, use a grinder to cut it, look up PVC (poly vinyl chloride) health hazard and you will have a full organic re alignment of brain molecules, there are also medicinal plants for the stress created ;)
Great stuff Nate. This will help me describe what I've been trying to describe to our customers all along in a much clearer sense. Will you ever do a video talking more about decouple systems? Best of luck.
Hi Nick Denney - You bet. We actually have a video on Decoupled systems coming up soon. Stay tuned. #aquaponics
Hi,
Thank for the video. I'm trying with hydroponic with Hoagland solution (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoagland_solution), then i found that the residual nitrate is over safe level. Do you know to solve/reduce...or any suggestions? How is it going on your system?
Food miles are fairly low down the environmental chart.
The key thing is that Haber process nitrogen (ammonia) is made from natural gas (both the energy required and it supplies the hydrogen for the chemistry ) and what do you feed the fish in aquaponic systems. ?
Yes they are all considerations towards full sustainability. Thanks for your comments!
i tried growing tomatoes in a 2x2x6 grow tent and early blooming them then clipping the buds and it grew so fast it ripped my tent apart. will it do that to my insides if i eat one of these tomatoes? do i flush when they are green still or first sign of ripeness? or when first fruit appears? how do i time it successfully and acurately plz. and is there any way to sell from your front lawn or neighbors that is legal and would i still need certification to do so?
or to* neighbors... accurately*....
sry also is all produce the same? is there anything i can grow hydro organically and sell legally without waiting and going through the certification and assesment process? is it very technical and irrational without making it a full time job and following stringent standards to be certified or is there a loophole if so, is there a way if you have trust from within the community that you use safe practices and standards? thanks and +karma to whoever answers this w/ sincerity. anyone wanna buy some tomatoes? their sooooo good. i forgot how good tomato sandwiches were.
Great, informational video! I'm excited to see someone in Wyoming have success growing. I'm in Cheyenne and the last few years have been a struggle to get our garden to thrive.
Hi +Carrie Mccrea! Thanks I'm glad it was helpful to you. Are you growing hydroponically over there in Cheyenne?
Good info thanks!
Hi...i was wondering how bell pepper and tomato species would do when you grow them using "cow feaces biogas byproduct slurry" as the main or only culture in a hydroponic system....?
COVID...
I love your garden, i also learn and do as same as you
I'm setting up my greenhouse system a little at a time with as little bit of money as I can swing (you don't make a lot on a homestead lol) can your system be started small and built up cheap?
Yes, our systems are designed to scale. Most of our farmers start out small and grow over time. Incremental, organic growth is the way to go 90% of the time.
Why not considering the Kratky method? You can start with very limited resources.
Hi! I’m new in this hydroponic world. I recently bought an IDOO hydroponic system, but I’m looking for an organic alternative to the nutrient solutions that come with the original product. Do you have any suggestions?
Any update? I just bought an IDOO too. Setting up soon
I have hydroponic nutrient solution leaking onto the leaves of my lettuce. Are they still safe to consume?
just clean the lettuce thoroughly. it is safe
Umm enjoy your chemicals i guess... bon apetit n all
+tommidrab83 Umm he only has a Ph.D and all.. You probably have a g.e.d.
+King Kreepy Do you have a point? Are you saying that a Ph.D is worthless and that they're all just taught bullshit?
Yes, of course I have a point, and I illustrated said point to you, *sigh, but obviously you missed it. It might have been tucked away too deep into the english language for you to see. So next time, I will scribble it with my color crayons and draw you a picture. But, for this time..... Here is a run down in laymen's terms: A degree does not make you better than somebody, nor does it mean you actually know more than somebody. It does mean that said person with the degree did study for years books that were state and federally approved for for their consumption. So yes, a PHd compared to a G.E.D. does mean you spent more time at school but does it make you smarter? NO. My uncle holds the record 4.0 gpa at Rolla for his Ph.d in Mining Engineering, he can shoot a rocket to the moon (on paper.) He also invented some of the most fantastic mining equipment in the last 30 years. Yet, he kills car batteries and cannot function very well in society. Point being you judging someone on their (Degrees) shows your lack of knowledge in life, maybe you should go back to get further educated. :) PS, I have a G.E.D and went on to achieve Deans list for the whole time I was in college and the framed pieces of paper on my wall show that. So carry on with your judgments, if you want to be known for being irrational and uneducated. Thanks.
Nate,
Your candor as well as these informative tutorials are much appreciated. It seems to me that deriving nitrates from fish waste might have a few benefits over conventional fertilizing even with the necessary supplementing of secondary nutrients. And, of course, the fish need to be fed. I guess the bottom line is being able to provide safe nutritious food to your customers.
I really enjoy these videos and look forward to them regularly. Thanks...Ed
Thanks Ed. We're glad to help.
Nice information
Glad that it helped!
Plants can directly assimilate complex organic molecules.
I was wondering when you might address sustainability in AP because so much of the fish food made out there is made with Menhedan, a filter feeder at the base of the food chain for fish which is now at critically over fished levels. That in combination with the need augment systems with deficient nutrients and minerals should surely concern those choosing a sustainable path. The future will be fish foods made from insect proteins fed by the human consumption waste stream.
You're absolutely right AquaponicNYC, the source of fish meal is a huge concern in aquaponic production. Up until recently there has been very few balanced feeds out there based on plant proteins. We've become a fan of Skretting feeds, but there are a few others. Fish meal has some serious sustainability questions surrounding it. As always, source is the big question/issue. But you're right, plant and insect based proteins will play a much bigger role in feed in the future.
Bright Agrotech i have a small bed for duckweed that i plan to grow as a supplement to my fish food. i was also looking at bug farming. do you think that i could properly feed my fish on a diet of just duckweed, alga, and bugs? it would mean a lot more work, but it would be more sustainable. i had also considered growing feeder fish and trying some carnivorous fish, but there again i would worry about them getting the variety of nutrients they would need. possibly needing to grow multiple breads of feeder fish, that could get complicated.
One little note on synthetic fertilizers. They all get nitrogen from ammonia. Currently, in order to accomplish this a complex gasification process called the Haber-Bosch Process uses fossils fuels as the main ingredient. Most often natural gas is used, but also coal and oil is used in countries that don't have natural gas reserves or refineries, like China. This Haber-Bosch Process produces CO2 and Methane in the manufacture of ammonia, as well as other greenhouse gases. Through this process, a 50lbs bag of nitrogen represents approximately one gallon of gasoline. Can you image how many pounds of nitrogen are used on the fields of big commercial agriculture, and how much fossil fuels are consumed just in the manufacture alone, not including transportation and application of chemical fertilizers?. Sure, we're able to feed billions of people by this process, but for how long? Do your research on sustainable organics and vegan based nutrients. There are alternatives.
Jacob Smith what is my option for better nitrogen products?
@moo3heril No, it's incomparable. You obviously don't understand the scale of the industry and the sheer amount of embedded energy in synthetic fertilizers, which are also destroying the soil, until it becomes an inert growing medium rather than soil anymore.
moo3heril d
Always a pleasure listening to Nate - he seems to give a well balanced perspective on a quality growing system and encouraging end users to do their own research instead of trying to convince them that he has all the answers.
Thanks, Bill Lombard - Nobody has all the answers!
Say it with me, Prod-use..
...but in the end of the day. ..
Thanks for the great myth busting, Nate. I'm a split organic soil and hydro producer myself, and I have to answer these questions all the time. I'll be sending curious customers to this video.
Great to hear it, Michael. Sounds like you understand the struggle! Great to connect.
Nitrogen is not the trouble about the Healthy, but when we use Sythetic Urea , to make it , is necesary a lot of Fossil Electricity, But it isnt i Direct trouble for the Health. the Real Trouble with the Health is With Phosforus , is a great issue, the Synthetic phosphorus, that we use came from Apatite Rock (the Phosforic main rock), and to Make the Soluble , we use Sulphuric acid , the 96% of the sulphuric acid in the world is used in this purpose, and the acid sulphuric came from Sulfur, The Surfur came from 3 main Sources Pyrite (is a kind of iron-ore), Petroleum and Natural gas . and is the main reason why Our Phoforic Acid Got trces of Heavy Metals like arsenic and Cadmium , and sometime for the source of the Apatite rock deposit, not all the apatite rocks got heavy metals. maybe the Solucion for us , at small scale, Would be Buy the whole Phosphoric Rock ( from good sources, or maybe red-Guano-stone ), and then found a Acid acetic suplier, the acid acetic is Vinager, but the vinager that we use to eat , just have like 4% - 5% of Acid acetic, We need industrial acid acetic, or maybe for a industrial Process we could use Hydrochloric acid , the is main sourse the the Salt from the sea. So mixing phosphoric Rock in powder... and Acid acetic in a good concentration, we will have a more Healthy , Acid phosphoric for our crops. with the Pottash also , we just need to change the kind of acid that we use , maybe the HCL is more expensive than the Sulphirc acid, and is the reason why the Fertilizer industry use to produces our source of P and K. in the Case of Pottash , the best source of Pottash Rock is the Sylvianite , and you got a LOT Sylvianite in the States.
Great input, thanks for the perspective. I am trying to plan for a comershal aquaponics system myself, so your understanding of what is both practical and sustainable is very helpful. i would like to be certified organic so my options will be a little more limited. My impression would be that you could create some sustainable organic solutions that would save you money in the long run. It would just take some initial investment and ingenuity, not to mention a lot of failing before you got it right. For instance integrating traditional compost into an aquaponics system. If you could figure out how to do that safely and effectively, that could produce some great nutrients. Not sure if it's possible, but if it worked it would be awesome
Compost tea?
+ant santoro compost tea is when you run water through compost or other material that you want your plants to get nutreunce from and collect that water to be feed directly to the plants
Nate, great video but i have a couple questions.
1) You mentioned sustainable sourcing for your inputs. Do you have any information sources for better comparing this?
2) You also mentioned organic growing, is your vertical farm equipment OMRI listed?
Hey lfthzmrk 1) We recommend talking directly with the fertilizer companies for more info on sourcing. The smaller ones are oftentimes family-owned distribution businesses that interact with small/local farmers and they can usually tell you where they get their products and how they're made. There's also quite a bit of research in the scientific community on the topic. Things like carbon costs and whether they're mined vs. synthesized. 2) Our products aren't OMRI listed. As a small family business ourselves we just can't afford the tens of thousands of dollars required to get an OMRI listing. However, our materials are compliant with all USDA Organic production standards. OMRI listing is something we would really like to do but we're going to have to wait until we have over $50,000 in the bank. Hope that all makes sense lfthzmrk.
Bright Agrotech Thanks Nate! I will look into the sourcing. I understand completely about the OMRI listing. I did not intend to turn this into a conversation but I was hoping to eventually be certified as organic. Does your farm have certification? I am assuming yes since you referred to it as organic.
lfthzmrk Our farm here in Laramie actually isn't certified as "Organic" for two reasons. The first, of course, is cost. The second, and most important, is what the capital "O" organic certification represents and how the way we run our farm allows us to get all the benefits of "Organic" certification. You see, what consumers really want is transparency - something our current food system doesn't give them. When it comes down to it, "Organic" certification and others like it are attempts to bring ag practices into the open through objective standardization and give consumers the transparency they desire. When you're a small/local farmer like us here in Laramie, something like this isn't as necessary because our customers can come see our operation anytime they wish and ask us any question they want about what we're using for nutrients, what we're doing for pest control and the like. This transparency is essential to fostering and maintaining trust between farmer and consumer - something we feel is VERY important.
Bright Agrotech Awesome, thanks for the time and information! Have a great week.
...and optimally, my fertilizer would not be using fish or any self-aware animals in a cruel way.
thanks glen
So you can use an organic nutrient to grow hydroponically? Like compost tea?
You can always try, but you need to be careful because those types of nutrients aren't formulated so it can be tough to find the right system balance after you add a compost tea.
thank you, yes i agree, the more I've looked into it, the more i realise that
You're very welcome.
I've been investigating for months about this topic. This 5 minutes video made my day. Thanks you A LOT. Really good explanation :)
Glad to hear we could help, Manu!
very well put
+Danilo Majhenic Glad you agree! Thanks for tuning in.
Hello: Where can I find precise nutrient ratios for specific crops?
Thank you for your question. Please check our best crops for hydroponics guide. zipgrow.com/BestCropsforHydroponics
It's fairly silly that people think conventional nutrients are unsafe.
The legitimate question is whether they're produced In a sustainable fashion, or if the alternatives are better.
Lol this guys a joke
I actually don’t have a problem with synthetic fertilizers, but I do take exception to one point you made…. The nutrition is better in organic, as chemical fertilizers only have tops 15-17 minerals/elements, whereas organic systems can have up to around 100 trace elements, hard to reproduce in hydro unless you have amazing mineral rich water to begin with.
Thank you for your comments. Glad to hear the organic ones are working well for you! Happy growing🙂
we are not prokaryotes. Plants only use 17 elements.
This 'organic' term in agriculture is a complete misnomer - it's a marketting gimmick, nothing else, and its an effective way of capturing attention. Anybody with a basic understanding of chemistry knows that 'organic' means 'carbon-based', therefore all the nitrates and phosphates are inherently inorganic regardless of their source. But the industry has bastardized this definition towards 'natural vs unnatural' (misnomer). When the root absorb nutrients down at the molecular level, nitrates and phosphates (and all others) are EXACTLY the same regardless of whether natural or unnatural.
Yep. You're preaching to the choir Kataria. That's why we champion "local" over "organic."
You're wrong. Organic farming is a method of integrated farming. You create your own fertilizer from organic waste. It will reduce waste on the landfill. This method also more sustainable to the environtment.
I personally buy organic due to the toxic pesticide issue since I have Lupus and avoiding toxic chemicals helps me avoid flare ups. For instance, I don't avoid GMOs because I'm afraid of science & evolution but because GMOs require more pesticides that I must avoid due to my disease...........again, this is the whole point in MY choice of organic produce. MY Rh Negative blood type & extremely efficient immune system recognizes "lab creations" as foreign invaders that trigger an autoimmune response. I ran a fever for TWENTY YEARS until I stopped poisoning myself.
your a fool no till soil is the best and you cant create what nature naturally does hydro is garbage
@@lelegurame this method is called no till
Hey,
Is there ANY research on the risk in using aquaphonics?
is there any risk in the fact you are constantly watering the plants with fish waste? (or water running through fish waste).
You’re not running the fish through waste, in a good system the plants are constantly filtering the water, like weeds in a lake, keeping the fish and water in good shape…
You can’t say organic..When you say organic it’s soil based..
But is it stattrak?
NEXT TIME U WILL TRY TO GIVE ANSWER TO THE POINT, NO NEED TO LECTURE