The church has grown at a rate that outpaces the death rate of senior leadership. It's a global church led by a very "local", dare I say myopic, group of who's who in early church history. It makes me wonder if God's hand is really in bringing these men up to thier positions of absolute power and authority?
Very astute point! I think it’s time for god to change the structure of his corporation and bring in mandatory retirement ages, let’s increase the turnover!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Either the prophet is God's representative on earth or he isn't. It really is as simple as that. Ancient Israel also had that decision to make about Moses.
@@joybischoff9558 Hey "KAREN" what prophet of God? The mormons never had a prophet of God plus don't sit there and be all smug saying the mormons have the most members, far from it.. the Catholic Church and muslims have billions more members than mormons
@@RichardChappell1 Uh first off the mormon church is NOT God's church, that right there is blaspheme to even claim that, secondly, when Jesus comes to rapture his church it will NOT be your mormon church of joseph smith church. So hey mormons, God will not be mocked
I recently broke the Mormon line of thinking that haunted my brain. I struggled with suicidal thoughts. Not anymore. More free than I ever could be in the church
I also felt not good enough for God in this religion. Shame for normal emotions growing up. I also tried to commit suicide. But I lived on. Thank God because the church is not true. Joseph smith was full of sh@#
@@lurenacornella6588 None of us is good enough for Christ by ourselves. That is why he is our savior and redeemer and perfector of our faith. That is why we go to church. Because of our own selves none of us are good enough. That's why we depend on Christ for his Redemption of what we lack. We all need Jesus Christ every mothers son of us
Nero, I can always count on you to PROVE what I instinctively know. As an insatiable researcher myself, I deeply understand and appreciate the time and effort required for you to do this work. The fact that you consistently maintain integrity as well as a certain gracefulness is utterly delightful! You are a valuable asset to those who seek a deeper understanding. Much Gratitude!
My dad wrote in his memoir that he did not feel worthy to marry my mother because she was a member of an "elite" Mormon family (the Grants --related to Heber J. Grant) while he was not. Happily, she married him anyway. Strange to me that anyone would consider anyone else in the church to be "elite" or "non-elite." The perceived prestige of the families of church leadership is real.
Yeah aren’t members taught that we are all equal in the eyes of god? That’s why in the temple they wear the same clothing and everyone is called either brother or sister and all other titles are left at the door
@@Cocoisagordonsetter I'm not sure what you mean by this comment, exactly, but the intended meaning of mine was that I've been out of the church long enough that I don't know all the names of the new "apostles" that have been inducted since I left
I served in the Germany Berlin mission and Uchtdorf was an area authority while I was there, he and president Monson had a history together building the church in East Germany. So, there's his connection. You can go back and see many talks from Monson about his work with the Germans and Uchtdorf was helping Monson.
Yup, there is ALWAYS a connection. I think the main reason why they do this (aside from the obvious of giving the best callings to family and friends) is that if the church claims are not true, then they need people they can trust and have vetted over many years so they won't get any rogue apostles who spill the beans (like BH Roberts almost did in 1920). What year did you serve in Germany?
@@melissamckinley-rigg2311 My brother served in Germany in the mid 1990's. I served in Arkansas from 2000 to 2002. I remember my mission president telling us not to believe "anti-mormon lies" about Joseph sending men on missions and then secretly marrying those mens wives.... I am sure he didn't know it was true either...
@@nickdipaolofan5948 cool, I loved Germany! The Ouachita Mountains in Arkansas are beautiful too. Ya, once I found out about Joseph Smith and the true polygamy story and polyandry, I was so hurt that the church made a liar out of me! On my mission I was teaching about Joseph and the person said, Joseph Smith? Didn't he have like 30 wives? I said, no he didn't have 30 wives. I told my Dad that story recently and he asked me how many I told them he had. I didn't know how many he had cause it's never talked about, but I sure as heck "knew" it couldn't be 30! This dude in the street knew more about my church than I did!!! And his information was considered "anti-mormon"?!? Ugh.
What a Sleuth you are. I have been looking for this type of information and did not know where to start. Thanks Nemo, you never fail to impress! Would love to know where a less skilled sleuth would find this type of information. Thanks
Nemo is right; the church is man made, courtesy of Brigham Young, who had much to do with Joseph Smith’s murder and founder of nepotism. Reference: Travis Wayne Goodsell
Examples from Douglas Stilgoe: 1. The church has $150B of investements. Douglas assumes leaders of the church are greedy. 2. The church keeps on building temples: Douglas assigns the motive of Pres. Nelson building his legacy. 3. The church still has cases of abuse against children: Douglas assigns that the church doesn't care about children and ignores the laws of the lands and the complexity of the world we live in. 4. Joseph Smith married a 14 year old girl: Douglas assumes JS was a pedophile with no evidence that their was any sexual relationship. 5. Douglas has his records removed from the church. Douglas blames everyone else except himself. Almost every video Douglas has made assigns negative motives and reasons to all things LDS church. He has tons more of takes on the LDS church. In almost every case he assigns fairly negative motives as well as a lot of his followers. Watch his videos and take notes. You will see how twisted his viewpoints are.
I think the saddest thing is that cute kid with a fair sense of humor grew up to be just as dry and dull, barren of personality, like most church leaders. Also in the subject of nepotism, one of my neighbors growing up was a descendent of Hyrum Smith. He was married to a Packer. He served diligently in all his callings. He was ‘getting to the right age’ and daaaaamn how upset he was when his friend, who was a nobody, got called to the 70s and he wasn’t. So though nepotism isn’t always the rule, there’s 100% an expectancy with certain bloodlines that the should be given privilege and preference over others.
yup, you can see the entitlement from those with big name relatives. My current stake president is a McConkie and he is the most arrogant person I have ever met. He acts like whatever he says simply becomes truth after he says it. His 10 year term is almost up and I have predicted that he will become a 70, mission president, or temple president very shortly after his release. I am open about not being a fan of his and have made this prediction often to those in our ward so they know that I called it (and also hopefully they will realize these callings are uninspired and predictable). When it finally happens (his birthright calling being extended) I will be strutting those halls that Sunday as someone having crazy foresight. hhahhaahahahahahahahahahahaa
@@MrNashtyone Obviously you are free to believe whatever you want to believe. I remember when my brain told me the same thing that your brain is telling you.
@@MrNashtyone You're right. MOST sane people would not want or seek high positions in the Church. But there are those who do and it's usually about ego and power. Whereas most conscientious people see those kinds of high-profile, ladder-climbing positions as just a lot of responsibility and work. There are people who seek them out for the "honors", the ego-stroking, the power, the opportunities to speak to thousands of people and having them feel obligated to listen to what you say as though it was coming from God. I met young Mormon missionaries who were from wealthy, well-connected families in SLC and they openly talked about their leadership ambitions and how they expected to have "great responsibilities" and positions of "leadership" in the church. You can't really understand some things by just projecting your own attitudes and values and assuming that everyone else has the same attitudes and values. There are definitely people in the church who have sought after, craved and coveted high-ranking positions in church leadership ever since they were young, and, unfortunately, when you're looking at the top leadership of the church you're almost always looking at those types of people.
If it's not who you know, being super wealthy can probably land you a position in the quorum. I even heard that there are special rooms and special temple ceremonies for the wealthier church members that the everyday plebs can't get.
I thought that Uchtdorf represented a real shift in focus for the LDS leadership. He was fresh, energetic, interesting and honest. But the “Lord” must not have pleased with that great talk wherein Uchtdorf admitted that there were unpleasant things in the Mormon past history. When the time came for change, Uchtdorf was dropped like Hugh Brown. I was devastated. “Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water”. At least Uchtdorf didn’t lie about his airplane stories!
I've gotta point out that it's even more nepotistic in the case of Spencer Kimball than you said, as he is also the nephew of Joseph Smith, the founder of the church. His aunt was Helen Mar Kimball, famous for being Joseph Smith's child bride, just a few months shy of her 15th birthday.
So was she 14 or just a few months shy of 15? I didn’t realize how many LDS “prophets” had child brides until recently. Seems to be a bit of a fetish for them
@@davidjanbaz7728 …..David. Hello again. It’s a joke. Apologists and others say she was a few months shy of 15 to try to make her sound older but anything shy of 15 is still not 15. Besides 15 is still young. Joseph was 37 or something
I noticed Elder Uchtdorf years ago as I found it refreshing to hear someone in conference speak more on the teaching so of Jesus Christ than others I noticed. I love him.
There is definitely leader worship too! When the son of a past member of the 70 was getting called as a bishopric counselor in my ward, all 3 members of the Stk Presidency showed up in our ward to listen to the 70 who came to support his son. I remember coming home that day, several years before leaving the church, and being super annoyed with what had occurred in the sacrament meeting. It was like the Stk Presidency was drooling all over the 70!!
Yup, seen stuff like that many times. A friend of ours was related to a big name in the church and one sunday that person came to my friends ward because they were in town visiting and her bishop was like, "OMG why didn't you TELL me that you were related to so and so?!?!?! and the bishop insisted that he sit with the big name person during sunday school and quorum meeting. My friend was annoyed but not surprised at the bishops behavior. The way she described it, the bishop was practically giving him his "business card" so he will "keep him in mind" for future "opportunities". We all outwardly pretend that callings are inspired but the actions of the ambitious show that we really know how callings are REALLY dolled out....
I agree with you. We should not worship any man. I don't worship any prophet. But I do what they ask me to do knowing that the lord who I do worship will bless me for it.
@@MrNashtyone The problem with your statement is that the modern prophets have contradicted themselves so many times that it is impossible to follow the prophets. Brigham Young said that the ONLY way you can reach the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom is to enter into plural marriage. Now the current prophet does not agree with that. President Kimball said that it is blasphemy to say you are born gay, now president Nelson is allowing an entire church run website called mormon and gay, where several people claim they are born gay..... Then there were SEVERAL prophets who said that black people were the less valiant in the premortal world and that is why they were not allowed the priesthood and temple benefits, now the current prophets completely denounce those past SEVERAL prophets. So when you say follow the prophet, I say which one? If you respond with, who ever is the current prophet, then you ARE just engaging in the worship of MAN because you are not interested in the truth, just what ever the current guy is telling you......
Thank you for discussing this issue. Nepotism and calling business buddies to positions of power and authority. Even in the Nauvoo days there was always Joseph’s super secret groups who were all related through polygamy. Sick.
I never like it when leaders brag on who they happen to be related to. Learning about ancestry and who you're a descendant of is always nice, but does it really matter when it comes to qualifying for any role or job, or determining your self-worth and importance?
Well, it DOES, it IS A VERY BIG DEAL. In Mormon Theology the family you are born in is predetermined by your premortal accomplishments, so it only makes sense (in their twisted world) that being born in certain "chosen" families automatically makes you more relevant and "worthy" of such callings than individuals born in other races (blacks and browns) and even the amount of money your family has is determined by premortal accomplishments, (being born poor is ok, you should´ve been more valiant in the premortal war against Satan.
Uchtdorf was in the Area presidency when L Tom Perry was the acting President of the Europe Central area. That was 2003/2004. I was on my mission in Austria at the time.
Lila, I watched your interview on mormon stories. Thank you for putting yourself out there! My sister had your father as a speaker at one of her mission conferences and was very impressed with him. As an insider yourself, how early did you notice the level of nepotism within the church? Was it very early that you saw the pattern, or was it later after you began questioning? Just curious how insiders view this topic. I wonder if you didn't even notice it because you (meaning family of LDS leaders) were swimming in it, or if it was blaringly obvious?
My parents are converts back in the late 60's. For Trek, the registration page said link your account to family search to show your pioneer relatives. I was amazed that not only did I have multiple direct pioneer relatives, but one was entrusted with being amongst the last to leave Nauvoo and was a captain of a company that headed west. So, all this relationships isn't surprising, but you marry who you date, you date who you associate with. Same holds true with leadership
I grew up in Utah and am now an exmo! Through my own reasoning and study I started having doubts about the church after serving a Mission in Japan. I couldn't understand the changing of God's heart in declaring that the Black Members were all of a sudden being blessed with the Priesthood. I am supportive of EVERY Male member of the church being eligible to hold the priesthood. But why would the Church/God change his mind? Back to the subject at hand... I have often wondered why only rich people are eligible to be church leaders, since many of the most pious, faithful and devoted members are poor, working people? Since when do GOD's Laws? About the time when the Saints were leaving Missouri for the trec out west, a general meeting of the Church was held and in the order of business, Brigham Young asked Church members to vote on whether the "Word of Wisdom" should be considered a commandment of God. when the precise word of God, in the D & C says "To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom." Try finding that online! (Don't have a D&C handy.) They are happy to esplain what the "Word of Wisdom" is in their opinion but hard to find the text that I quoted. Why is that? Now you bring up Nepotism. There are many anomalies like this that drove me out the front door of the church. In my mind I just can't believe God would approve of such actions, but the church leaders just carry on and refuse to accept any responsibility for what they have done.
The church is a limited closed ecosystem, so nepotism is inevitable. The leadership only draw attention to it as a deflection strategy when it becomes too bleeding obvious to the rank and file who are going to give them a free pass anyway. The church is a family business, but then again so is the mafia.
Maybe they trust that the kids will be loyal. So nepotism is an easy way to maintain leadership bc they'll stay loyal to the family, and therefore the Church. No defectors
The whole gig can continue to survive and even thrive as long as "the Lord's anointed" (or the self-appointed, or the double-jointed) can keep the flock (sheep) believing that they're somehow morally, spiritually, and / or intellectually superior to the rest of us.
I'll give you some indication of how this can happen. My former stake president said they interview a series of people (20 or more) for stake president. By inspiration a stake president is chosen. Then that person has about five minutes to choose his two stake counsellors. What would you do? You would nominate two people you can work beside for the next seven years. So they end up choosing people they have worked with as high councilmen, bishoprics, or other ward or stake callings. I know one stake president who had 11 units in his stake. Both his stake councilors were from the same ward where the stake president lived. All 11 high councilmen were also from the same ward of the stake president.
Well, generally you have a good idea that you are being considered for stake president if you are called in for multiple interviews with a GA present and they are interviewing you for a position they won't tell you about. So I would say that you actually have a month or more to start thinking about counselors before you actually get called. And lets be honest, if you are the relative of a big name in the church, you basically know that you are being groomed for higher callings and probably already have names of people (friends) that you would like to "bring up to the big leagues" with you, should it be "your time" for the promotion. I know a few people who were stake presidents, mission presidents, temple presidents, and their connections and choice of counselors were very similar. Once you notice the pattern, it becomes super easy to predict who will be the next bishop, stake president, etc with relative accuracy. In fact, I would predict the next bishop, relief society president, elders president, etc in our ward all the time and my wife thought I had the gift of discernment until I told her the basic method for my predictions (usually, who is friends with who in the ward, who makes a lot of money in the ward, who is connected, ect) and she was a lot less impressed (like when you learn how a magic trick is done).
@@nickdipaolofan5948 It's just like in business. If there really were "revelation" then God could just reveal the person who should be called without even the need for an interview.
@@MalcolmLeitch1 exactly. In the Bible God called his servants directly and he gave them the ability to perform miracles (healing people, parting the red sea, raising the dead, lions not eating them, etc) so others would know that they were called of God. Now, it is so easy to predict who will be called in the church based on WHO is doing the calling..........
@@nickdipaolofan5948 Nick- Our last SP came out of 26 one time interviews with each candidate done in a four day period. They then called in the person (and spouse) and made the call. Once he was called he had five minutes to decide who the counsellors were. I found that process rather unusual given how other stake presidents were chosen in the past. But the GA was only in town for a few days.
@@scottbrandon6244 yes, I would say that your stake presidents experience was more due to the availability of the GA and not very common. Also, your SP could have been a shoe-in (usually the person chosen is the same person the exiting SP recommends) and also accounted for why the "vetting process" was rushed (likely because it was just a formality and your SP was going to be chosen anyway unless a major red flag appeared). All exiting SP's are asked to give the GA a short list of men they recommend as a replacement and from what I hear, it is pretty rare that someone not on that list is called. And when someone not on that list is called, they sometimes just happen to be connected with the GA doing the calling or someone higher. Sadly, church is no different than work politics. It rarely what you know, but more WHO you know.........
It seems that Uchtdorf has served in many callings and was probably noticed for his skills, talents and unwavering faith. However, it is difficult to overlook the fact that he was the CFO of Lufthansa for many years. It is a very prestigious international company, and he was at the top of it. They also probably wanted another businessman in there as well. The 12 do not have anybody in their group who studied philosophy or English because they might want to be confronted with the "tough" questions.
@@Cocoisagordonsetter No, my mistake. He was not the CFO. He was senior vice president of flight operations for Lufthansa. Never the less it is a business management position. He understands how a corporation has to earn money.
Decades ago I commented that names that sounded familiar were ones chosen for leadership. What I was not aware of is that those names were familiar because the men were all related.
First Pres and Quorum of 12 still Lilly-white and nepotism still runs true. Awesome presentation! Keep it up NEMO. You always cause people to stop-and-think.
@@KendraAndTheLaw Brother Willy, to those "woke" losers, it's not racist if it's said about a White person. "Woke" people are all wasting oxygen GOOD people need
Thank you for another informative, well done video! Mormon inc. will undoubtedly continue to use its enormous wealth to spread its cancer around the world. I am very thankful for you and others like you who keep people informed. Please continue the great work.
They used to openly sit as directors on the boards of many corporations, especially corporations affiliated with the Mormon church. But eventually it became an image problem so they mostly stopped that practice. But I'm sure there are still a lot of informal connections.
Our stake president just got released and HIS TWO SONS got called into the stake presidency after..... yeah... by the hand of god huh? Give me a break 😂
@@jayanderson147 my bishop just happens to be best friends with the stake president who called him. The stake president just happens to be a McConkie..... The people called into leadership positions in the ward generally are from the circle of friends of the three members in the bishopric or the friends of their wives......
@@jayanderson147 And this pattern is nothing new. If you have been a member your entire life, you have seen it to some extent in every ward or stake you have been in.
@@SethTurnerPrinting and now he is getting positions and titles handed to him as his birthright...........(I'm not implying he is not qualified for those positions, Just saying he would get them regardless of qualifications)
Of course! It's always a coincidence! I think I know who you are talking about...someone who also spent a considerable amount of time working for the Huntsmans (who are related to the late Apostle Haight). There are definitely some people who are selected from an early age for advancement. Monson was also an obvious case and he was close to Hinckley (both of them being lifelong employees of the church and/or church-affiliated enterprises). Monson moved straight up rapidly in tandem with Hinckley. And of course Hinckley's son got put into a GA position just in time to become eligible for retirement benefits.
I’m a 4th great grandson of Brigham Young on my dad’s side and a first cousin to Joseph Smith on my mom’s side. Maybe if I was more vocal about it and actually paid my tithing I could become an apostle??? /s
I’m in Utah! Let me know if you need any boots on the ground! Would absolutely love to work with you! Love your videos! I was thinking of doing a series where I read the journals of JS wives
My guess is 1. Because men are the leaders in the church 2. The men never brag about their female heritage however Eliza R Snow was mentioned as one common female relation example
@@Sam-tu4hp I meant links between male leadership and women family members or colleagues on eg RS Board or Primary or Young Womens. When Tommy Monson was president, one of his daughters was in a general board I'm sure.
@@debbieshrubb1222 oh I see! That’s an excellent point! Thank you for clarifying. I agree all around, the nepotism does include men and women and those connections are equally worth talking about in this discussion
@@Sam-tu4hp I think there can be a tendency in the predominantly male post Mormon spaces to overlook women. The activism on behalf of women as well, is muted. Advocating for oppressed groups seems to have its own hierarchy and IMO women are almost an afterthought in that advocacy
Holand got to be the President of UVU without any background or merit for the job ...I wonder if being the son of an Apostle has anything to do with it?
@@MrNashtyone No, but the evidence of obvious plagiarism found all over the book of mormon, the lack of ANY physical evidence of the events said to have occurred on the Hill where the plates were deposited, and the general history of Joseph being a dishonest person sure lend themselves to the BOM being false.
It has to be a coincidence. Just like Henry B. Eyring's boy becoming the president of BYU-I. You would think that dozens and dozens of coincidences like that would at some point be indicators of something other than coincidences. But nope. They're all just coincidences. I'm sure the families involved are always amazed by these really miraculous coincidences. Blessings on top of blessings for well-connected...oops!...I mean, well-coincidenced...families in the church.
Elder Uchtdorf and Elder Bednar became apostles around the same time. Bednar was president of Ricks College (now BYU-Idaho). He had been a two time bishop and stake president. He had a background in business. Uchtdorf was past chief pilot at Lufthansa, but had held leadership positions in the church including a seventy. He was unexpected. You may have noticed the faces of the seventy show more diversity than 30 years ago. Africans, Latinos, and Asians are more represented. I think most of the leaders (church head or stake level) have a background in business, law, or science management. They are highly educated and certainly upper middle class for the most part. Some of the leaders have PhDs and many have held high power jobs (Elder Homer of the seventy was CEO of General Mills). Elder Ballard had a car dealership. Bednar was a management consultant. Christofferson was a prosecutor on the Watergate case. Renlund and Nelson were surgeons. Holland, Oaks and Bednar were university presidents. These people get picked not just for nepotism but for their years of service to the church, in paid or unpaid callings.
@@susanbergman9765 There may be the odd seventy that does, but probably not. There are some with Near Eastern or Religious Studies degrees, but not many. The leaders even down at the bishop level don't have M.Div. or D.Th. degrees. The LDS church is a lay ministry, with no paid clergy. You only get a salary if you work full time for the church. And seventy, apostles and the FP get a salary/stipend.
Non-Mormon here. I was just wondering about how missionaries get assigned and whether or not they get "cushy" assignments if they have family connections. Former Governor and current Utah Senator Mitt Romney got assigned to France for his mission. Jeffrey R. Holland served in the United Kingdom. Current church president Russell M. Nelson was a missionary at Temple Square. The same thing happens in the non-religious world; if you're connected, the red carpet is rolled out for you. If you're not connected, then you serve "where the need is greatest". I could be wrong and if so, please let me know if this isn't the case here. Anyone out there who can speak to this, your comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
Nemo, good start. I've observed the gobs of nepotism. I've shopped at Walmart and I've stayed at Marriott hotels as well as a Hyatt and Hilton hotels. I've watched NBA, NFL, NCAA and HS sports so I'm no stranger to nepotism. But I'd be interested in the extent to which nepotism influences the quality of the church's leadership and operations, such as doctrinal interpretations, policies, lands, facilities, IT, etc. For example, if the church had brought in more fresh, non nepotistic blood generations ago, would they have changed their policies towards Blacks sooner? Why? By getting fresh blood from outside their circle that could bring in a wider range of thought?
Russell Nelson played a big role in being a doctor who saved the prophet's life, because he didn't have merit in the church. He was baptized when he was 16 years old, he didn't do a mission, it seems that he only went to church when he was 30 years old, certainly a large part of his youth, he was away from the church. He ended up being called as an apostle and by coincidence, he ended up becoming a prophet
a prophet??? nelson really goofed months ago when the chinese communist party virus alleged "vaccine" first came out. contrary to nelson's claims at that time that these "vaccines" (which they are not) were "safe" and "effective" , these "vaccines " have now proven themselves to be quite UNSAFE and very INEFFECTIVE!!!!!
@@MrBillmechanic I wish there was a way to report racism and spreading life-threatening propaganda. The virus is real, the vaccines I’m familiar with (Pfizer and Moderna) are safe and effective.
“by coincidence, he ended up becoming a prophet” You need to look into the system in place on how the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints literally chooses the next president, prophet, searer and Revelator. It is NOT based on ones ability to talk with a deity….
@@NEMOTHEMORMON This is why so many LDS people name their kids middle names the surname of the most prominent LDS figure in their bloodline. Dallin Harris Oaks was not randomly given Harris as his middle name. It is an open admission that nepotism is a key factor to ascending the ranks in this organization.
Sounds like you're describing and talking about the church under Adam, Noah, Moses, or any other time in church history whether it be in old testiment times or new. Also sounds like what happens in any denomination of Christian churches.
Yea it’s the same as Old Testament lines. The Jews and Israel and Adam all used their families because that’s the center of everything, and the one who would likely be the most prepared and raised the best might be the one who was raised by a father who taught him those things. Seems simple. Even though it does creep into ambition and favorites and stuff
@@yerfaceful The problem of course is that once you accept that familial ties, crony/friendship ties and so on are the real basis for leadership advancement and selection, there's really no point to keep pretending that it's all about divine inspiration, revelation and so on. Even in the comments under this video, I've seen a number of examples of faithful believers essentially redefining words like "inspiration" and "revelation" down to such mundane connotations that they're really pointless words. You may as well use them to describe how organization and promotions work in any ordinary business corporation.
Maybe, if there were any actual theologians among the leaders. But, alas, they're pretty much all businessmen, lawyers and lifelong church administrators, with a few exceptions.
to be blunt about the issue, it's a who knows basis built on either having family in high positions or having enough wealth to buy the way in. There is nothing divine about it
Yeah they want to buy their way into more responsibility than they had in their professions and to not enjoy the fruits of their labors in retirement with all the many cruises they would be taking right now if they were not general authorities. Yeah I'm sure they all wanted to buy their way into more work than you or I could imagine at their ages and otherwise retired living the good life.
Thomas Monson’s son is a attorney and was kicked out of the law firm where he was employed for being “naughty “ then was hired with the church’s law firm.
I think that it is unrealistic to believe that the apostles called should have no connection to any prominent figures. Somebody somewhere has to know of someone to recommend them to a position. It is all well and good pointing out a connection someone might have with a former apostle, but think about the thousands of people who also have a connection with that same former apostle. Why was that person picked from the rest? I also believe some of the links pointed out here are too far fetched to be considered to be of any worth, especially the links with Elder Soares, Rasband, and Anderson.
Sure. In any ordinary corporation or organization, ordinary and mundane ways of selecting and elevating leaders are to be expected. But it's kind of silly for the church and church members to always bang on about things like "inspiration" and "revelation" and "divine appointments" and other such nonsense in one breath and then, in the next, scold people for not being "realistic" and for expecting anything more than business as usual with respect to the ways that people rise to the top leadership positions in the organization. You can get whiplash trying to follow the logic, or the lack thereof. TBM: "We're led by God directly, through revelation and inspiration. Our leaders are directly called by God!" Doubter: "But it kind of looks like most of the leaders owe their positions to family and personal connections. Kinda like there's a lot of nepotism and cronyism involved and nothing that meaningfully could be described as divine inspiration and revelation." TBM: "Why are you being so unrealistic? Of course family connections and personal connections will play a huge role in the process. How else can the higher leaders be expected to know someone before extending a calling and know whether that person is the right person for the position?" Doubter: "But what about the inspiration and divine revelation and direct callings from God and stuff?" TBM: "Oh, geez. That's what inspiration and revelation is, silly. It's knowing which of your family friends and relatives will be best for the leadership position that you want to put a family friend or relative into." Doubter: "???"
Just to point out the nepotism, and cause people to ask themselves how they feel about it. If you feel fine about it, then no worries, thanks for watching!
chinookwind, to me this is important because it is a clear indicator that God is not doing the choosing, and therefore it brings into question if God is actually directing these men. Once you look into Joseph Smith, there is no question that this church was founded by a con man and was never from God.
I actually haven’t left, I’ve done that crazy thing of changing my mind and deciding to stick around to see if I can do some good rather than just walking away. I attend my local ward and actively participate.
I'm gonna push back a little. If you want to prove nepotism, you really shouldn't look further back than maybe 2 generations (parents, brothers, sisters, first cousins, grandparents) Any further back and you risk quite the stretch. Is it a nepotism hire if my great-uncle's son offers me a job?
I was a Mormon..born and raised..for 50 years. The programing was very effective with me..but Jesus Saved and Freed me from it and Now He is my Only Teacher.
So would you make a big deal about Jesus and his apostles two of them James in John or his cousins John the Baptist was his cousin is younger brother James was also in in the apostleship. So what is your point?
If God Himself came down and announced these callings, I'd have no problem with them. But that is not what is happening. What is happening is relatives calling relatives..................
Elder Bednar's son is my stake president (we live in central Illinois, where units are mostly a half hour drive plus apart and leadership is pretty scarce). It may sound like nepotism, but when you actually meet people in the stake, you'll realize that he is absolutely the most capable guy for the job. Hands down. Being raised in a certain way does help, and I'm sure that him watching his dad lead in the Church has contributed to his preparation; really, that is what it boils down to I think. It looks like nepotism, but when you meet the people it affects, you realize they absolutely have every right to be in the positions they are in based on who they are.
Don't you see how it is just like politics though? A lot of relatives of politicians will move to a district that will allow him to get elected due to it being a weak district? It is no different in the church, relatives of big name people will move to parts of the world where there is a lack of leadership so they will advance up the ranks rapidly and it doesn't raise as many eyebrows when they are a bishop at 25, stake president at 30, mission president at 40, and paid General Authority before they are 50. It is so clearly a grooming process. And yes, some decide church leadership isn't really the path they want (maybe they want to stay a dentist) but most connected LDS people like a son of an apostle know that they are on the short list for leadership positions if they want it.
I agree. Their are many variables that could consider besides just being relations. Being exposed to someone who has been in leadership positions and who’s learned from the failures they have had who then share with you their life lessons puts you at an advantage in gaining leadership opportunities and knowledge. Depending on the geography of where you are born will procure you advantages in opportunities that might not exist if you were born somewhere else. If for example someone was born and raised in a desert, but later in life move to where there are bodies of water were would have disadvantages in becoming a Olympic swimmer then someone born near water in their youth who has practiced for years, more so if they were able to be trained by Michel Phelps.
Also I don’t know if your familiar with a talk by David A. Bednar where he voices his concern for those who state I’m related to this past leader who did such and such. He said something along the lines of oh that’s nice, but what are you going to do. Also the major thing that needs to be asked is what is being taught by these men? Do they not teach and preach of Jesus Christ? If the logic is going to be consistent in this video then I suppose we ought question old prophets as where like Abraham, Issac and Jacob, but let’s not stop there you also have Lehi, Nephi, and there descendants. Then to go further you also have Jesus Christ who is God’s son whom His Father chose.
I thought the Lord could take weak men and make them strong. He would be at their side to guide them. He could look outside the incest and find a diamond in the rough, waiting for the violin maker to fill his servant with His wisdom.
@@iamjustonemom1950 yeah, those stories are just to keep the peons hoping. Just like all those fairytails of poor young women falling in love with a prince and becoming a rich princess overnight. Those stories keep the commoners filled with false hope. Unless you are related to or are very good friends with a church blue blood, your name isn't being called into the big leagues. Sure you will be a bishop or even a stake president, but you will never get a paid calling. Those are for family and friends.
Their talking of their "distinguished ancestry" reminds me of Jewish geneological traditions. They seem to think their ancestors' actions imply some special merit. It's no wonder the church members latched on to the idea of a curse passed down through lineage, despite the fact that Jesus' atonement would have done away with things like that. I mean, I guess it's their "right" to choose whomever they will to be the next leaders. They just can't deny that nepotism does happen in the church. The "inspiration" clearly does not go beyond their personal circle. I also can't help but wonder if Elder Uchtdorf was chosen as an attempt to make the church look more international.
It's the good ol' boys club of Utah... and it's ridiculous. Anyone with eyeballs can see how fictitious this whole "church" is... I'm so glad I escaped their geographic domain.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON I just got done watching another video of yours and gotta say how much I thoroughly enjoy them all 😇. At least the ones I have watched 🤪. But I must say 🙄 that for me I especially look forward to the ending 😳, because I really enjoy that tune 🥰. I don’t know what your wife looks like 🙄, but could imagine a woman humming the tune accompanied by that guitar solo. Aloha 🌺
I think Dieter F Uchtdorf got to know Thomas S Monson quite well in Germany when Monson was running assignments frequently in Europe. Uchtdorf wrote an article in the ensign about an experience they had together years before he was called as an apostle.
Bro. Nemo, I believe that Elder Uchtdorf got to be a general authority, after meeting Pres. Monson in europe several times, and Pres. Monson liking him so much that he called/recommended him into the quorum of twelve apostles. This is just what I believe, I could be very wrong--anyone who knows the true story please relate it here and message me. I appreciate it very much for starting this presentation with the example of Matt Holland speaking in general conference. Was young Holland called to speak by the prophet at the time (maybe Hinckley, not sure who was prophet at that time) WITHOUT Elder Holland dropping hints to the prophet to get some screen time for his son he hopes to get into church leadership positions ??? I doubt it happened WITHOUT encouragement from Elder Holland ????? THE BIG QUESTION IS IF ELDER HOLLAND BECOMES CHURCH PRESIDENT, WILL HE CALL HIS SON MATTHEW INTO THE QUORUM OF TWELVE APOSTLES ?????? I DARE SAY HE WILL, BECAUSE IT SEEMS THAT ELDER HOLLAND HAS BEEN TRYING TO PROMOTE MATTHEW INTO CHURCH EXPOSURE/LEADERSHIP POSITIONS SINCE HIS TEENAGE YEARS ?????????? I COMMENT, YOU DECIDE.
The primary fallacy behind the concern is that the Church should be directed from the Earth rather than Heaven. That's a pretty serious misunderstanding underneath all of this.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON I'm suggesting that your concern about who is called is founded on the idea that the Church is directed from the Earth and not from the Lord. That's a pretty serious gap in understanding about the Church. The Church is led by the Lord, and whom is called is far less important. That's a foundational aspect of our faith on which virtually everything else hangs on. Without that core belief, then you really don't believe in the Gospel that the Church teaches, and one would question why you would call yourself a Mormon.
Ok, I think I’m getting it. The paradigm that the church is directed by the lord through his mouthpieces requires faith that the men who claim to be his mouth pieces are indeed acting in that capacity. Any evidence which may undermine that claim, such as those men engaging in activity unbecoming of one in that position like lying or pride, should be acknowledged and examined. So the concern is not that the church SHOULD be directed from earth instead of heaven, but that it IS being directed from earth, rather than heaven.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON You have created a false dichotomy. You have set up a scenario where these men are perfect or they can't be a prophet. Where would you get that idea? Certainly, the stories in the Bible should give you no legitimate expectation of such. Your claim that any behavior that does not meet your standard proves they are not guided from Heaven. I expect you would find no one suitable to do the Lord's work on earth - except maybe yourself? This is where I have concerns about whether you are who you present yourself. A basic principle of the Gospel is that it's run by imperfect people - from the primary teacher to the prophet. We are all here to serve the best we can and all have different levels of discenrment. The point is, it's not the person in the calling that's important. The problem with it, is that it's you directing the Lord and expecting to guide Him in how to run His church. The fact is, the question is easy - it's the same process to determine if the Church is true. Moroni 10:4. It's basically a simple question - do you believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or not? You're entitled to receive an answer from Heaven. There really is no middle ground. If you don't believe in the leadership of the Church, you don't believe in the Church - not because they represent the Church specifically, but because that's what we believe the Gospel to be. If Joseph Smith, or any of his successors are not a prophet, then the Church is not true.
@@RichardChappell1 your last line is exactly the conclusion that led me to no longer believe the church claims. Once I found out that Joseph didn't actually follow most or all the moral laws of God (Don't bear false witness, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't kill, he didn't even obey his own word of wisdom) it was easy to conclude that he was not a man of God. Especially when you look at his folk magic "glass looking" con man business past, you can tell that Joseph and his family were basically gypsy style swindlers and they eventually found a way to tap into religion for their big pay day.
A lot of this information is very helpful. On the other hand, I don't find it that surprising that old, largely business men have a habit of promoting only people they knew well and liked. There is probably a more objective vetting process to get more unbiased representation, but then, no one ever claimed that the process should be objective, and travel and technology have only recently become easy ways to communicate, relative to the life-span of an apostle. Still, the literal nepotism still displayed by the higher echelons don't look great, and seems to be symptomatic of significant problems.
Pretty sweet gig if you're well-connected enough to get in on it. If you can keep the flock convinced that you're somehow morally, spiritually, and/or intellectually superior, you can be treated like a living rock star, and benefit from being on the "taking" side of having millions of people surrender 10% of their incomes every month. Beats having to actually WORK for a living, don't you think?
"Pretty sweet gig if you're well-connected enough to get in on it" my thoughts exactly. They say power corrupts. Can you think of anything that could give you more of a power trip than having millions of people believe that you literally speak to and for God?
@@nickdipaolofan5948 Yeah, and particularly in a culture where people are taught to never question anything that comes "down" the channels, and that all misgivings about things surely come from Satan himself. It's okay to pray . . . but maybe more important to obey and pay, one might say. And you've got to be willing to roll with the tide of constantly shifting theology, doctrine, policies and priorities.
@@joetaylor8687 "And you've got to be willing to roll with the tide of constantly shifting theology, doctrine, policies and priorities." you and I have the exact same issues with the church! haha
It makes sense to me that there would be some leadership in the church that are descendants of loyal disciples of Christ. Not sure why this looked at in a negative light…
Who you gonna run a worldwide church with? The janitor at the school? That is in no way an insult as I'm sure he would feel incapable of such a task as well. Why all the hate. If you want the calling then do it. Otherwise support someone who wouldn't wish the calling on someone else and would be taking many cruises and having allot of fun if he were not an apostle
@@MrNashtyone "if you want the calling then do it" That is the entire point of this video, unless you are connected, you CAN'T get called into those positions. But if you are a son or nephew or somehow connected to a hire up, then you WILL get called if you want the position. You sound like you have it all figured out so why don't you tell us the path someone could take to put themselves on the fast track to become an apostle? You seen to think there is a path that one can take, what is it? This video seems to prove that the "path" is making sure to come out of the correct birth canal............
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Yey! I love the kind of short but very to the point information that you bring to the table by doing your homework/research and then giving us an education to what the facts...
Well, it is apparent you would take issue with the Book of Mormon. Consider Nephi, Jacob, Enos, Omni, etc. There is the 5-generation lineage from Alma the older to beyond the time of Christ. It happened in ancient times as well: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh.
Uchtdorf was very close to Thomas Monson and the church was already under some criticism for not having any foreigner in the top leadership of the church and then under pressure for lack of diversity as well, hence the changes. It's all based on data survey, that's how changes are happening.
Matthew Holland is coming to Boise, ID for our Stake Conference on 9/16/23. He has directed no zoom meetings. I know of several bed ridden widows who would love to listen to a GA, but screw them. He was President of a community college near BYU that is now getting university status, so he is following the pattern. Elder Uchtdorf was a popular Stake President who went on an Oprah type show in Germany, answered some 'tough' questions, and was well received. But that's all I know about that.
And yet in the scriptures God is calling Prophets from all walks of life, different ages, nationality and even outside the religious landscape, in fact mostly from outside than inside. This proves this church is just an organized religion in the front and a big business behind the scenes. Why would God call Samuel a 10 year old boy and today he only calls 80 year old men from Utah? Even in the Book Of Mormon, ironically God is calling people from outside the church to preach repentance to the most religious people and yet today if somebody outside the church claims to be called of God the leaders and members won't believe it or accept it. The LDS church became just like the Catholic church, hierarchy, wealth, power, secrecy and control. Any member who hasn't noticed that yet is completely blind to what's going on.
I can tell you that I have seen a lot of it at the stake and local level as well. You will notice that a LOT of the stake callings are filled by people in the WARD in which the stake president came from. This is because the stake president knows more people in that ward better than other wards. This is fine, but is shows that "inspiration" seems to be limited to who you already know..... Same with ward callings. Once a new bishop is called, you will generally notice that many of the bigger callings are filled with people who were already in that bishops circle of friends and those he served with in prior callings. Of course not ALL callings can be that way because there is basically a calling for everyone in the ward (or else they will invent a new calling if they are short on callings) but you will notice that generally the decision making callings go to those in the social circle of the person giving out the callings. Heck, my wife was called as young womens president and she did in fact pray hard for who should be her counselors but I KNEW in my head that she would likely pick her two best friends and sure enough those were the two names she submitted. One of them was already serving in a stake calling and was denied and so she submitted another name that just happened to be mutual friends of my wife and the other counselor. Now, My wife honestly was trying to be guided by the spirit, but it sure is funny how the spirit usually just confirms what we already want to do in our hearts. We are all guilty of this mindset. It is not an indictment on us, but the church as a whole and the claims made regarding being led by God and the spirit.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
The church has grown at a rate that outpaces the death rate of senior leadership. It's a global church led by a very "local", dare I say myopic, group of who's who in early church history. It makes me wonder if God's hand is really in bringing these men up to thier positions of absolute power and authority?
Very astute point! I think it’s time for god to change the structure of his corporation and bring in mandatory retirement ages, let’s increase the turnover!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Either the prophet is God's representative on earth or he isn't. It really is as simple as that. Ancient Israel also had that decision to make about Moses.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON It seems pretty presumptuous to tell God how He should run His Church.
@@joybischoff9558 Hey "KAREN" what prophet of God? The mormons never had a prophet of God plus don't sit there and be all smug saying the mormons have the most members, far from it.. the Catholic Church and muslims have billions more members than mormons
@@RichardChappell1 Uh first off the mormon church is NOT God's church, that right there is blaspheme to even claim that, secondly, when Jesus comes to rapture his church it will NOT be your mormon church of joseph smith church. So hey mormons, God will not be mocked
I recently broke the Mormon line of thinking that haunted my brain. I struggled with suicidal thoughts. Not anymore. More free than I ever could be in the church
Brother you are not alone👏🏼
I also felt not good enough for God in this religion. Shame for normal emotions growing up.
I also tried to commit suicide.
But I lived on. Thank God because the church is not true.
Joseph smith was full of sh@#
@@lurenacornella6588 glad to see I (and we) are not the crazy ones.💛
I’m glad you’re still here, I’m so sorry you felt that way!
@@lurenacornella6588 None of us is good enough for Christ by ourselves. That is why he is our savior and redeemer and perfector of our faith. That is why we go to church. Because of our own selves none of us are good enough. That's why we depend on Christ for his Redemption of what we lack. We all need Jesus Christ every mothers son of us
Nero, I can always count on you to PROVE what I instinctively know.
As an insatiable researcher myself, I deeply understand and appreciate the time and effort required for you to do this work.
The fact that you consistently maintain integrity as well as a certain gracefulness is utterly delightful!
You are a valuable asset to those who seek a deeper understanding.
Much Gratitude!
Interesting how divine revelation is limited to the United States
#PromisedLand
I think you haven't look at the general authorities chart for a very long time buddy...
You need an update.
Check your facts fella
😂🤣
My dad wrote in his memoir that he did not feel worthy to marry my mother because she was a member of an "elite" Mormon family (the Grants --related to Heber J. Grant) while he was not. Happily, she married him anyway. Strange to me that anyone would consider anyone else in the church to be "elite" or "non-elite." The perceived prestige of the families of church leadership is real.
Yeah aren’t members taught that we are all equal in the eyes of god? That’s why in the temple they wear the same clothing and everyone is called either brother or sister and all other titles are left at the door
Today was the day that I realized I had never heard of one of these guys, and I feel like that's an important exmo milestone
@@Cocoisagordonsetter I'm not sure what you mean by this comment, exactly, but the intended meaning of mine was that I've been out of the church long enough that I don't know all the names of the new "apostles" that have been inducted since I left
I served in the Germany Berlin mission and Uchtdorf was an area authority while I was there, he and president Monson had a history together building the church in East Germany. So, there's his connection. You can go back and see many talks from Monson about his work with the Germans and Uchtdorf was helping Monson.
Remember he got his hands slapped for support of the LGBTQ community
Yup, there is ALWAYS a connection. I think the main reason why they do this (aside from the obvious of giving the best callings to family and friends) is that if the church claims are not true, then they need people they can trust and have vetted over many years so they won't get any rogue apostles who spill the beans (like BH Roberts almost did in 1920).
What year did you serve in Germany?
@@nickdipaolofan5948 those are my thoughts exactly! It was Jan 2003-July 2004
@@melissamckinley-rigg2311 My brother served in Germany in the mid 1990's. I served in Arkansas from 2000 to 2002. I remember my mission president telling us not to believe "anti-mormon lies" about Joseph sending men on missions and then secretly marrying those mens wives.... I am sure he didn't know it was true either...
@@nickdipaolofan5948 cool, I loved Germany! The Ouachita Mountains in Arkansas are beautiful too. Ya, once I found out about Joseph Smith and the true polygamy story and polyandry, I was so hurt that the church made a liar out of me! On my mission I was teaching about Joseph and the person said, Joseph Smith? Didn't he have like 30 wives? I said, no he didn't have 30 wives. I told my Dad that story recently and he asked me how many I told them he had. I didn't know how many he had cause it's never talked about, but I sure as heck "knew" it couldn't be 30! This dude in the street knew more about my church than I did!!! And his information was considered "anti-mormon"?!? Ugh.
What a Sleuth you are. I have been looking for this type of information and did not know where to start. Thanks Nemo, you never fail to impress! Would love to know where a less skilled sleuth would find this type of information. Thanks
Cheers! You’ve just got to be persistent and varied in your Google searching, the information is out there my friend!
Abraham Isaac and Jacob. All prophets and prophets sons.
You're truly grasping for anything
Nemo is right; the church is man made, courtesy of Brigham Young, who had much to do with Joseph Smith’s murder and founder of nepotism.
Reference: Travis Wayne Goodsell
Examples from Douglas Stilgoe:
1. The church has $150B of investements. Douglas assumes leaders of the church are greedy.
2. The church keeps on building temples: Douglas assigns the motive of Pres. Nelson building his legacy.
3. The church still has cases of abuse against children: Douglas assigns that the church doesn't care about children and ignores the laws of the lands and the complexity of the world we live in.
4. Joseph Smith married a 14 year old girl: Douglas assumes JS was a pedophile with no evidence that their was any sexual relationship.
5. Douglas has his records removed from the church. Douglas blames everyone else except himself.
Almost every video Douglas has made assigns negative motives and reasons to all things LDS church. He has tons more of takes on the LDS church. In almost every case he assigns fairly negative motives as well as a lot of his followers. Watch his videos and take notes. You will see how twisted his viewpoints are.
I think the saddest thing is that cute kid with a fair sense of humor grew up to be just as dry and dull, barren of personality, like most church leaders.
Also in the subject of nepotism, one of my neighbors growing up was a descendent of Hyrum Smith. He was married to a Packer. He served diligently in all his callings. He was ‘getting to the right age’ and daaaaamn how upset he was when his friend, who was a nobody, got called to the 70s and he wasn’t. So though nepotism isn’t always the rule, there’s 100% an expectancy with certain bloodlines that the should be given privilege and preference over others.
yup, you can see the entitlement from those with big name relatives. My current stake president is a McConkie and he is the most arrogant person I have ever met. He acts like whatever he says simply becomes truth after he says it. His 10 year term is almost up and I have predicted that he will become a 70, mission president, or temple president very shortly after his release. I am open about not being a fan of his and have made this prediction often to those in our ward so they know that I called it (and also hopefully they will realize these callings are uninspired and predictable). When it finally happens (his birthright calling being extended) I will be strutting those halls that Sunday as someone having crazy foresight. hhahhaahahahahahahahahahahaa
I guarantee Uchtdorf knew someone. It’s all about who you’re related to or who you know. There is no spiritual revelation or discernment involved.
Yup. I served in the Germany Berlin mission and Uchtdorf and Monson became really close friends trying to build the church in East Germany.
@@melissamckinley-rigg2311 Big deal. If he serves the lord who cares. These callings are enormous and difficult. Who would want this
@@MrNashtyone Obviously you are free to believe whatever you want to believe. I remember when my brain told me the same thing that your brain is telling you.
@@MrNashtyone You're right. MOST sane people would not want or seek high positions in the Church. But there are those who do and it's usually about ego and power. Whereas most conscientious people see those kinds of high-profile, ladder-climbing positions as just a lot of responsibility and work. There are people who seek them out for the "honors", the ego-stroking, the power, the opportunities to speak to thousands of people and having them feel obligated to listen to what you say as though it was coming from God. I met young Mormon missionaries who were from wealthy, well-connected families in SLC and they openly talked about their leadership ambitions and how they expected to have "great responsibilities" and positions of "leadership" in the church.
You can't really understand some things by just projecting your own attitudes and values and assuming that everyone else has the same attitudes and values. There are definitely people in the church who have sought after, craved and coveted high-ranking positions in church leadership ever since they were young, and, unfortunately, when you're looking at the top leadership of the church you're almost always looking at those types of people.
If it's not who you know, being super wealthy can probably land you a position in the quorum. I even heard that there are special rooms and special temple ceremonies for the wealthier church members that the everyday plebs can't get.
I thought that Uchtdorf represented a real shift in focus for the LDS leadership. He was fresh, energetic, interesting and honest. But the “Lord” must not have pleased with that great talk wherein Uchtdorf admitted that there were unpleasant things in the Mormon past history. When the time came for change, Uchtdorf was dropped like Hugh Brown. I was devastated. “Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water”. At least Uchtdorf didn’t lie about his airplane stories!
So right, but just look how the others ahead of him in the quorum are doing, he will outlive all of them, there's some hope.
I've gotta point out that it's even more nepotistic in the case of Spencer Kimball than you said, as he is also the nephew of Joseph Smith, the founder of the church. His aunt was Helen Mar Kimball, famous for being Joseph Smith's child bride, just a few months shy of her 15th birthday.
So was she 14 or just a few months shy of 15? I didn’t realize how many LDS “prophets” had child brides until recently. Seems to be a bit of a fetish for them
@@Sam-tu4hp is math a problem for U ?
@@davidjanbaz7728 …..David. Hello again. It’s a joke. Apologists and others say she was a few months shy of 15 to try to make her sound older but anything shy of 15 is still not 15. Besides 15 is still young. Joseph was 37 or something
@david janbaz,
If you condone marrying a 14 year old CHILD, I'd certainly wouldn't let you around my grandchildren
@@johneasler9967 he wasn’t condoning anything
I noticed Elder Uchtdorf years ago as I found it refreshing to hear someone in conference speak more on the teaching so of Jesus Christ than others I noticed. I love him.
There is definitely leader worship too! When the son of a past member of the 70 was getting called as a bishopric counselor in my ward, all 3 members of the Stk Presidency showed up in our ward to listen to the 70 who came to support his son. I remember coming home that day, several years before leaving the church, and being super annoyed with what had occurred in the sacrament meeting. It was like the Stk Presidency was drooling all over the 70!!
Yup, seen stuff like that many times. A friend of ours was related to a big name in the church and one sunday that person came to my friends ward because they were in town visiting and her bishop was like, "OMG why didn't you TELL me that you were related to so and so?!?!?! and the bishop insisted that he sit with the big name person during sunday school and quorum meeting. My friend was annoyed but not surprised at the bishops behavior. The way she described it, the bishop was practically giving him his "business card" so he will "keep him in mind" for future "opportunities".
We all outwardly pretend that callings are inspired but the actions of the ambitious show that we really know how callings are REALLY dolled out....
I agree with you. We should not worship any man. I don't worship any prophet. But I do what they ask me to do knowing that the lord who I do worship will bless me for it.
@@MrNashtyone The problem with your statement is that the modern prophets have contradicted themselves so many times that it is impossible to follow the prophets. Brigham Young said that the ONLY way you can reach the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom is to enter into plural marriage. Now the current prophet does not agree with that. President Kimball said that it is blasphemy to say you are born gay, now president Nelson is allowing an entire church run website called mormon and gay, where several people claim they are born gay..... Then there were SEVERAL prophets who said that black people were the less valiant in the premortal world and that is why they were not allowed the priesthood and temple benefits, now the current prophets completely denounce those past SEVERAL prophets.
So when you say follow the prophet, I say which one? If you respond with, who ever is the current prophet, then you ARE just engaging in the worship of MAN because you are not interested in the truth, just what ever the current guy is telling you......
The church is like an MLM this way.
prophet worship!!!!
Thank you for discussing this issue. Nepotism and calling business buddies to positions of power and authority. Even in the Nauvoo days there was always Joseph’s super secret groups who were all related through polygamy. Sick.
I never like it when leaders brag on who they happen to be related to. Learning about ancestry and who you're a descendant of is always nice, but does it really matter when it comes to qualifying for any role or job, or determining your self-worth and importance?
Arrogance runs deep in the church
@Cole Borden Spot on!
Well, it DOES, it IS A VERY BIG DEAL. In Mormon Theology the family you are born in is predetermined by your premortal accomplishments, so it only makes sense (in their twisted world) that being born in certain "chosen" families automatically makes you more relevant and "worthy" of such callings than individuals born in other races (blacks and browns) and even the amount of money your family has is determined by premortal accomplishments, (being born poor is ok, you should´ve been more valiant in the premortal war against Satan.
in the economy of god and the restored church, it absolutely matters. Bloodlines are hugely important in most cultures. Like kings
Ex-mo here. You'd think with all the plural wives and such that most of them would be related either closely or not so closely.
you'd think that with hundreds of years of missionary efforts, a few converts would have been called to high positions by now................
Uchtdorf was in the Area presidency when L Tom Perry was the acting President of the Europe Central area. That was 2003/2004. I was on my mission in Austria at the time.
Nemo you really did your homework on this episode! Well done 👍🏼
Cheers!
Lila, I watched your interview on mormon stories. Thank you for putting yourself out there! My sister had your father as a speaker at one of her mission conferences and was very impressed with him.
As an insider yourself, how early did you notice the level of nepotism within the church? Was it very early that you saw the pattern, or was it later after you began questioning? Just curious how insiders view this topic. I wonder if you didn't even notice it because you (meaning family of LDS leaders) were swimming in it, or if it was blaringly obvious?
My parents are converts back in the late 60's. For Trek, the registration page said link your account to family search to show your pioneer relatives. I was amazed that not only did I have multiple direct pioneer relatives, but one was entrusted with being amongst the last to leave Nauvoo and was a captain of a company that headed west. So, all this relationships isn't surprising, but you marry who you date, you date who you associate with. Same holds true with leadership
I grew up in Utah and am now an exmo! Through my own reasoning and study I started having doubts about the church after serving a Mission in Japan. I couldn't understand the changing of God's heart in declaring that the Black Members were all of a sudden being blessed with the Priesthood. I am supportive of EVERY Male member of the church being eligible to hold the priesthood. But why would the Church/God change his mind? Back to the subject at hand... I have often wondered why only rich people are eligible to be church leaders, since many of the most pious, faithful and devoted members are poor, working people? Since when do GOD's Laws? About the time when the Saints were leaving Missouri for the trec out west, a general meeting of the Church was held and in the order of business, Brigham Young asked Church members to vote on whether the "Word of Wisdom" should be considered a commandment of God. when the precise word of God, in the D & C says "To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the word of wisdom." Try finding that online! (Don't have a D&C handy.) They are happy to esplain what the "Word of Wisdom" is in their opinion but hard to find the text that I quoted. Why is that?
Now you bring up Nepotism. There are many anomalies like this that drove me out the front door of the church. In my mind I just can't believe God would approve of such actions, but the church leaders just carry on and refuse to accept any responsibility for what they have done.
Nemo! This is one of the best you’ve
Done! Outstanding! This is a topic that needs much more exposure….beautifully done 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Thank you very kindly! I’m always striving to improve so I’m glad!
Excellent podcast, Nemo. Simply brilliant I would say...to put it mildly. Well done!!!!
Thank you very much!
The church is a limited closed ecosystem, so nepotism is inevitable. The leadership only draw attention to it as a deflection strategy when it becomes too bleeding obvious to the rank and file who are going to give them a free pass anyway. The church is a family business, but then again so is the mafia.
I am suddenly reminded of Adam and Eve and incest.
Maybe they trust that the kids will be loyal. So nepotism is an easy way to maintain leadership bc they'll stay loyal to the family, and therefore the Church. No defectors
it is merely a corporation masquerading as a religion, and profiting off the adherents.
@David Wills Limited Closed Ecosystem, I like that!
ABRAHAM ISSAC AND JACOB. DAVID AND SAUL. WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT
The whole gig can continue to survive and even thrive as long as "the Lord's anointed" (or the self-appointed, or the double-jointed) can keep the flock (sheep) believing that they're somehow morally, spiritually, and / or intellectually superior to the rest of us.
I'll give you some indication of how this can happen. My former stake president said they interview a series of people (20 or more) for stake president. By inspiration a stake president is chosen. Then that person has about five minutes to choose his two stake counsellors. What would you do? You would nominate two people you can work beside for the next seven years. So they end up choosing people they have worked with as high councilmen, bishoprics, or other ward or stake callings. I know one stake president who had 11 units in his stake. Both his stake councilors were from the same ward where the stake president lived. All 11 high councilmen were also from the same ward of the stake president.
Well, generally you have a good idea that you are being considered for stake president if you are called in for multiple interviews with a GA present and they are interviewing you for a position they won't tell you about. So I would say that you actually have a month or more to start thinking about counselors before you actually get called. And lets be honest, if you are the relative of a big name in the church, you basically know that you are being groomed for higher callings and probably already have names of people (friends) that you would like to "bring up to the big leagues" with you, should it be "your time" for the promotion.
I know a few people who were stake presidents, mission presidents, temple presidents, and their connections and choice of counselors were very similar. Once you notice the pattern, it becomes super easy to predict who will be the next bishop, stake president, etc with relative accuracy.
In fact, I would predict the next bishop, relief society president, elders president, etc in our ward all the time and my wife thought I had the gift of discernment until I told her the basic method for my predictions (usually, who is friends with who in the ward, who makes a lot of money in the ward, who is connected, ect) and she was a lot less impressed (like when you learn how a magic trick is done).
@@nickdipaolofan5948 It's just like in business. If there really were "revelation" then God could just reveal the person who should be called without even the need for an interview.
@@MalcolmLeitch1 exactly. In the Bible God called his servants directly and he gave them the ability to perform miracles (healing people, parting the red sea, raising the dead, lions not eating them, etc) so others would know that they were called of God.
Now, it is so easy to predict who will be called in the church based on WHO is doing the calling..........
@@nickdipaolofan5948 Nick- Our last SP came out of 26 one time interviews with each candidate done in a four day period. They then called in the person (and spouse) and made the call. Once he was called he had five minutes to decide who the counsellors were. I found that process rather unusual given how other stake presidents were chosen in the past. But the GA was only in town for a few days.
@@scottbrandon6244 yes, I would say that your stake presidents experience was more due to the availability of the GA and not very common. Also, your SP could have been a shoe-in (usually the person chosen is the same person the exiting SP recommends) and also accounted for why the "vetting process" was rushed (likely because it was just a formality and your SP was going to be chosen anyway unless a major red flag appeared). All exiting SP's are asked to give the GA a short list of men they recommend as a replacement and from what I hear, it is pretty rare that someone not on that list is called. And when someone not on that list is called, they sometimes just happen to be connected with the GA doing the calling or someone higher.
Sadly, church is no different than work politics. It rarely what you know, but more WHO you know.........
Maybe that's why Uckdorf is our favorite. He is more kind and fun to listen to.
It seems that Uchtdorf has served in many callings and was probably noticed for his skills, talents and unwavering faith. However, it is difficult to overlook the fact that he was the CFO of Lufthansa for many years. It is a very prestigious international company, and he was at the top of it. They also probably wanted another businessman in there as well. The 12 do not have anybody in their group who studied philosophy or English because they might want to be confronted with the "tough" questions.
@@Cocoisagordonsetter No, my mistake. He was not the CFO. He was senior vice president of flight operations for Lufthansa. Never the less it is a business management position. He understands how a corporation has to earn money.
Decades ago I commented that names that sounded familiar were ones chosen for leadership. What I was not aware of is that those names were familiar because the men were all related.
First Pres and Quorum of 12 still Lilly-white and nepotism still runs true. Awesome presentation! Keep it up NEMO. You always cause people to stop-and-think.
Cheers, I try my best!
Lilly-white comment is racist. The nepotism part is true.
@@KendraAndTheLaw Brother Willy, to those "woke" losers, it's not racist if it's said about a White person. "Woke" people are all wasting oxygen GOOD people need
Thank you for another informative, well done video! Mormon inc. will undoubtedly continue to use its enormous wealth to spread its cancer around the world. I am very thankful for you and others like you who keep people informed. Please continue the great work.
Very interesting to see these leaders’ family ties. Thanks for your content, Nemo!
My pleasure!
I'm curious if there are any links from General Authorities to companies connected to the Mormon Church.
They used to openly sit as directors on the boards of many corporations, especially corporations affiliated with the Mormon church. But eventually it became an image problem so they mostly stopped that practice. But I'm sure there are still a lot of informal connections.
Our stake president just got released and HIS TWO SONS got called into the stake presidency after..... yeah... by the hand of god huh? Give me a break 😂
my uncle got called to the stake presidency.... by his brother-in-law...
@@jayanderson147 my bishop just happens to be best friends with the stake president who called him. The stake president just happens to be a McConkie.....
The people called into leadership positions in the ward generally are from the circle of friends of the three members in the bishopric or the friends of their wives......
@@jayanderson147 And this pattern is nothing new. If you have been a member your entire life, you have seen it to some extent in every ward or stake you have been in.
@@nickdipaolofan5948 oh 100%
Holladnd’s son… He was such a cute and funny kid… what the hell happened to him?
He grew up to be a great professor, at least when he taught me.
@@SethTurnerPrinting and now he is getting positions and titles handed to him as his birthright...........(I'm not implying he is not qualified for those positions, Just saying he would get them regardless of qualifications)
My mission pres. became a general authority after Rusty got in office. Coincidence he is his son in law?
Could be. Doubt it!
Of course! It's always a coincidence! I think I know who you are talking about...someone who also spent a considerable amount of time working for the Huntsmans (who are related to the late Apostle Haight). There are definitely some people who are selected from an early age for advancement. Monson was also an obvious case and he was close to Hinckley (both of them being lifelong employees of the church and/or church-affiliated enterprises). Monson moved straight up rapidly in tandem with Hinckley. And of course Hinckley's son got put into a GA position just in time to become eligible for retirement benefits.
I’m a 4th great grandson of Brigham Young on my dad’s side and a first cousin to Joseph Smith on my mom’s side. Maybe if I was more vocal about it and actually paid my tithing I could become an apostle??? /s
I’m in Utah! Let me know if you need any boots on the ground! Would absolutely love to work with you! Love your videos! I was thinking of doing a series where I read the journals of JS wives
So many connections, it is making my head spin. I will be watching this one again to continue sorting out the syndicate's member connections.
Might take a couple of watches, I tried my best to make it easy to digest
yes to fresh perspectives!
It had also been mentioned that a great number of General Authorities had served missions in England. Do you have any information on that?
Why no mention of female relations of these men?
My guess is 1. Because men are the leaders in the church 2. The men never brag about their female heritage however Eliza R Snow was mentioned as one common female relation example
More women were mentioned too. Helen Mar Kimball as another example
@@Sam-tu4hp I meant links between male leadership and women family members or colleagues on eg RS Board or Primary or Young Womens. When Tommy Monson was president, one of his daughters was in a general board I'm sure.
@@debbieshrubb1222 oh I see! That’s an excellent point! Thank you for clarifying. I agree all around, the nepotism does include men and women and those connections are equally worth talking about in this discussion
@@Sam-tu4hp I think there can be a tendency in the predominantly male post Mormon spaces to overlook women. The activism on behalf of women as well, is muted. Advocating for oppressed groups seems to have its own hierarchy and IMO women are almost an afterthought in that advocacy
Holand got to be the President of UVU without any background or merit for the job ...I wonder if being the son of an Apostle has anything to do with it?
Could do…
Does this make the book of mormon not true
@@MrNashtyone good question….. you need to inform yourself
@@MrNashtyone No, but the evidence of obvious plagiarism found all over the book of mormon, the lack of ANY physical evidence of the events said to have occurred on the Hill where the plates were deposited, and the general history of Joseph being a dishonest person sure lend themselves to the BOM being false.
It has to be a coincidence. Just like Henry B. Eyring's boy becoming the president of BYU-I. You would think that dozens and dozens of coincidences like that would at some point be indicators of something other than coincidences. But nope. They're all just coincidences. I'm sure the families involved are always amazed by these really miraculous coincidences. Blessings on top of blessings for well-connected...oops!...I mean, well-coincidenced...families in the church.
Gordon B. Hinckley had an uncle that was an apostle. Alonzo A Hinckley.
He did indeed!
J Reuben Clark who was an Apostle was Spencer W Kimball's cousin.
Grazie molte per il tuo lavoro di ricostruzione del nepotismo nella Chiesa Mormone.
Elder Uchtdorf and Elder Bednar became apostles around the same time. Bednar was president of Ricks College (now BYU-Idaho). He had been a two time bishop and stake president. He had a background in business. Uchtdorf was past chief pilot at Lufthansa, but had held leadership positions in the church including a seventy. He was unexpected. You may have noticed the faces of the seventy show more diversity than 30 years ago. Africans, Latinos, and Asians are more represented. I think most of the leaders (church head or stake level) have a background in business, law, or science management. They are highly educated and certainly upper middle class for the most part. Some of the leaders have PhDs and many have held high power jobs (Elder Homer of the seventy was CEO of General Mills). Elder Ballard had a car dealership. Bednar was a management consultant. Christofferson was a prosecutor on the Watergate case. Renlund and Nelson were surgeons. Holland, Oaks and Bednar were university presidents. These people get picked not just for nepotism but for their years of service to the church, in paid or unpaid callings.
You've bumped your head. Don't think for one minute these clowns in salt lake city are not paid. They each get a six figure salary
@@johneasler9967 Read the comment more carefully. They get paid now for those callings. I was talking about before they were general authorities.
Copy that, thanks
Yet none of those mentioned have degrees in theology.
@@susanbergman9765 There may be the odd seventy that does, but probably not. There are some with Near Eastern or Religious Studies degrees, but not many. The leaders even down at the bishop level don't have M.Div. or D.Th. degrees. The LDS church is a lay ministry, with no paid clergy. You only get a salary if you work full time for the church. And seventy, apostles and the FP get a salary/stipend.
That's why my plan is to marry into the Nelson family.
Apostleship, here I come!
Non-Mormon here. I was just wondering about how missionaries get assigned and whether or not they get "cushy" assignments if they have family connections. Former Governor and current Utah Senator Mitt Romney got assigned to France for his mission. Jeffrey R. Holland served in the United Kingdom. Current church president Russell M. Nelson was a missionary at Temple Square. The same thing happens in the non-religious world; if you're connected, the red carpet is rolled out for you. If you're not connected, then you serve "where the need is greatest". I could be wrong and if so, please let me know if this isn't the case here. Anyone out there who can speak to this, your comments would be appreciated. Thanks.
I always liked listening to their general conference speeches.
Nemo, good start. I've observed the gobs of nepotism. I've shopped at Walmart and I've stayed at Marriott hotels as well as a Hyatt and Hilton hotels. I've watched NBA, NFL, NCAA and HS sports so I'm no stranger to nepotism.
But I'd be interested in the extent to which nepotism influences the quality of the church's leadership and operations, such as doctrinal interpretations, policies, lands, facilities, IT, etc.
For example, if the church had brought in more fresh, non nepotistic blood generations ago, would they have changed their policies towards Blacks sooner? Why? By getting fresh blood from outside their circle that could bring in a wider range of thought?
Another astute commentary!
Thank you kindly!
Russell Nelson played a big role in being a doctor who saved the prophet's life, because he didn't have merit in the church.
He was baptized when he was 16 years old, he didn't do a mission, it seems that he only went to church when he was 30 years old, certainly a large part of his youth, he was away from the church.
He ended up being called as an apostle and by coincidence, he ended up becoming a prophet
a prophet??? nelson really goofed months ago when the chinese communist party virus alleged "vaccine" first came out. contrary to
nelson's claims at that time that these "vaccines" (which they are not) were "safe" and "effective" , these "vaccines " have now proven themselves to be quite UNSAFE and very INEFFECTIVE!!!!!
@@MrBillmechanic I wish there was a way to report racism and spreading life-threatening propaganda. The virus is real, the vaccines I’m familiar with (Pfizer and Moderna) are safe and effective.
Prophet? When has he ever prophecied anything? He didn’t see COVID coming . You’d think the lord would have told him to warn the people
“by coincidence, he ended up becoming a prophet”
You need to look into the system in place on how the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints literally chooses the next president, prophet, searer and Revelator. It is NOT based on ones ability to talk with a deity….
Also a member of Owl & Key and various other significant "frats" that got him where he was.
Any chance of an African or an African American making the grade?
Some of these connections are blowing my mind. (Oaks is related to Martin Harris?!) Thanks for putting this together!
You’re welcome!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON This is why so many LDS people name their kids middle names the surname of the most prominent LDS figure in their bloodline. Dallin Harris Oaks was not randomly given Harris as his middle name. It is an open admission that nepotism is a key factor to ascending the ranks in this organization.
Sounds like you're describing and talking about the church under Adam, Noah, Moses, or any other time in church history whether it be in old testiment times or new. Also sounds like what happens in any denomination of Christian churches.
Yea it’s the same as Old Testament lines. The Jews and Israel and Adam all used their families because that’s the center of everything, and the one who would likely be the most prepared and raised the best might be the one who was raised by a father who taught him those things. Seems simple. Even though it does creep into ambition and favorites and stuff
@@yerfaceful The problem of course is that once you accept that familial ties, crony/friendship ties and so on are the real basis for leadership advancement and selection, there's really no point to keep pretending that it's all about divine inspiration, revelation and so on. Even in the comments under this video, I've seen a number of examples of faithful believers essentially redefining words like "inspiration" and "revelation" down to such mundane connotations that they're really pointless words. You may as well use them to describe how organization and promotions work in any ordinary business corporation.
We will not be seeing more "Uchtdorfs" . I got the impression that they regret putting him in the position he's in.
Could many these relationships be correctly called “theological incest”? Just wondering!
Maybe, if there were any actual theologians among the leaders. But, alas, they're pretty much all businessmen, lawyers and lifelong church administrators, with a few exceptions.
to be blunt about the issue, it's a who knows basis built on either having family in high positions or having enough wealth to buy the way in.
There is nothing divine about it
Trust a Scotsman to be blunt! Thank you for your comment!
Yeah they want to buy their way into more responsibility than they had in their professions and to not enjoy the fruits of their labors in retirement with all the many cruises they would be taking right now if they were not general authorities. Yeah I'm sure they all wanted to buy their way into more work than you or I could imagine at their ages and otherwise retired living the good life.
Yeah, never have to worry about money, careers, etc., for the rest of their lives. Billions there to ensure their future wealth.
What is poygamy vs a harem
Thomas Monson’s son is a attorney and was kicked out of the law firm where he was employed for being “naughty “ then was hired with the church’s law firm.
Can I just say that the Mormon oratory style really creeps me out? Not every person, mind you, but so many.
Golden Kimball tell it like it is
Matthew Holland served on the board of NOM, the Mormon-funded group dedicated to fighting against gay rights, especially marriage.
I think that it is unrealistic to believe that the apostles called should have no connection to any prominent figures. Somebody somewhere has to know of someone to recommend them to a position. It is all well and good pointing out a connection someone might have with a former apostle, but think about the thousands of people who also have a connection with that same former apostle. Why was that person picked from the rest? I also believe some of the links pointed out here are too far fetched to be considered to be of any worth, especially the links with Elder Soares, Rasband, and Anderson.
Sure. In any ordinary corporation or organization, ordinary and mundane ways of selecting and elevating leaders are to be expected. But it's kind of silly for the church and church members to always bang on about things like "inspiration" and "revelation" and "divine appointments" and other such nonsense in one breath and then, in the next, scold people for not being "realistic" and for expecting anything more than business as usual with respect to the ways that people rise to the top leadership positions in the organization. You can get whiplash trying to follow the logic, or the lack thereof.
TBM: "We're led by God directly, through revelation and inspiration. Our leaders are directly called by God!"
Doubter: "But it kind of looks like most of the leaders owe their positions to family and personal connections. Kinda like there's a lot of nepotism and cronyism involved and nothing that meaningfully could be described as divine inspiration and revelation."
TBM: "Why are you being so unrealistic? Of course family connections and personal connections will play a huge role in the process. How else can the higher leaders be expected to know someone before extending a calling and know whether that person is the right person for the position?"
Doubter: "But what about the inspiration and divine revelation and direct callings from God and stuff?"
TBM: "Oh, geez. That's what inspiration and revelation is, silly. It's knowing which of your family friends and relatives will be best for the leadership position that you want to put a family friend or relative into."
Doubter: "???"
And your point of this video was????? These men are some of the best righteous honest men that walk the earth
Just to point out the nepotism, and cause people to ask themselves how they feel about it. If you feel fine about it, then no worries, thanks for watching!
chinookwind, to me this is important because it is a clear indicator that God is not doing the choosing, and therefore it brings into question if God is actually directing these men.
Once you look into Joseph Smith, there is no question that this church was founded by a con man and was never from God.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON oh I see from mormon stories you have left the church but you can't leave the church alone classic behaviour
I actually haven’t left, I’ve done that crazy thing of changing my mind and deciding to stick around to see if I can do some good rather than just walking away. I attend my local ward and actively participate.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON
So good to hear
I'm gonna push back a little.
If you want to prove nepotism, you really shouldn't look further back than maybe 2 generations (parents, brothers, sisters, first cousins, grandparents)
Any further back and you risk quite the stretch. Is it a nepotism hire if my great-uncle's son offers me a job?
Normally I’d agree. However, in a church as obsessed with family history as the LDS Church, I’d argue the older lineages still hold sway
I was a Mormon..born and raised..for 50 years. The programing was very effective with me..but Jesus Saved and Freed me from it and Now He is my Only Teacher.
An amazing amount of research Nemo.
why is jeff holland only an elder if he's in the q12?
Great breakdown! Love J Golden Kimballs quote.
It’s a great quote. Cheers for this!
Ooofff!! Nice video as usual Nemo! Very interesting to see the interconnected relationships of the higher ups lol.
Glad you enjoyed!
So would you make a big deal about Jesus and his apostles two of them James in John or his cousins John the Baptist was his cousin is younger brother James was also in in the apostleship. So what is your point?
If God Himself came down and announced these callings, I'd have no problem with them. But that is not what is happening. What is happening is relatives calling relatives..................
Fabulous research. Very clearly presented. Nepotism is beautiful.
Yeah, Nepotism will certainly weaken but association won't. That part will grow.
Fair prediction!
Elder Bednar's son is my stake president (we live in central Illinois, where units are mostly a half hour drive plus apart and leadership is pretty scarce). It may sound like nepotism, but when you actually meet people in the stake, you'll realize that he is absolutely the most capable guy for the job. Hands down. Being raised in a certain way does help, and I'm sure that him watching his dad lead in the Church has contributed to his preparation; really, that is what it boils down to I think. It looks like nepotism, but when you meet the people it affects, you realize they absolutely have every right to be in the positions they are in based on who they are.
Don't you see how it is just like politics though? A lot of relatives of politicians will move to a district that will allow him to get elected due to it being a weak district? It is no different in the church, relatives of big name people will move to parts of the world where there is a lack of leadership so they will advance up the ranks rapidly and it doesn't raise as many eyebrows when they are a bishop at 25, stake president at 30, mission president at 40, and paid General Authority before they are 50. It is so clearly a grooming process.
And yes, some decide church leadership isn't really the path they want (maybe they want to stay a dentist) but most connected LDS people like a son of an apostle know that they are on the short list for leadership positions if they want it.
I agree. Their are many variables that could consider besides just being relations. Being exposed to someone who has been in leadership positions and who’s learned from the failures they have had who then share with you their life lessons puts you at an advantage in gaining leadership opportunities and knowledge. Depending on the geography of where you are born will procure you advantages in opportunities that might not exist if you were born somewhere else. If for example someone was born and raised in a desert, but later in life move to where there are bodies of water were would have disadvantages in becoming a Olympic swimmer then someone born near water in their youth who has practiced for years, more so if they were able to be trained by Michel Phelps.
Also I don’t know if your familiar with a talk by David A. Bednar where he voices his concern for those who state I’m related to this past leader who did such and such. He said something along the lines of oh that’s nice, but what are you going to do. Also the major thing that needs to be asked is what is being taught by these men? Do they not teach and preach of Jesus Christ? If the logic is going to be consistent in this video then I suppose we ought question old prophets as where like Abraham, Issac and Jacob, but let’s not stop there you also have Lehi, Nephi, and there descendants. Then to go further you also have Jesus Christ who is God’s son whom His Father chose.
I thought the Lord could take weak men and make them strong. He would be at their side to guide them. He could look outside the incest and find a diamond in the rough, waiting for the violin maker to fill his servant with His wisdom.
@@iamjustonemom1950 yeah, those stories are just to keep the peons hoping. Just like all those fairytails of poor young women falling in love with a prince and becoming a rich princess overnight. Those stories keep the commoners filled with false hope. Unless you are related to or are very good friends with a church blue blood, your name isn't being called into the big leagues. Sure you will be a bishop or even a stake president, but you will never get a paid calling. Those are for family and friends.
Their talking of their "distinguished ancestry" reminds me of Jewish geneological traditions. They seem to think their ancestors' actions imply some special merit. It's no wonder the church members latched on to the idea of a curse passed down through lineage, despite the fact that Jesus' atonement would have done away with things like that.
I mean, I guess it's their "right" to choose whomever they will to be the next leaders. They just can't deny that nepotism does happen in the church. The "inspiration" clearly does not go beyond their personal circle. I also can't help but wonder if Elder Uchtdorf was chosen as an attempt to make the church look more international.
It's the good ol' boys club of Utah... and it's ridiculous. Anyone with eyeballs can see how fictitious this whole "church" is... I'm so glad I escaped their geographic domain.
I’m really glad you left also. You sound like California material. You should definitely be living in San Francisco or L.A.
@@mrkellysalinas that gave me a really good laugh. Thanks for that!
All the secrets are out.
Hey Nemo, just wondering what the name is of the background music you’re playing at the end of your videos? Thanks and Aloha 🌺
It’s me on guitar and my wife humming, if you write your own music it saves with copyright issues!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON thank you, I like the melody 🥰 which is why I asked and was going to look it up on iTunes 😳 and buy it 😇.
Aloha 🌺
@@NEMOTHEMORMON I just got done watching another video of yours and gotta say how much I thoroughly enjoy them all 😇. At least the ones I have watched 🤪.
But I must say 🙄 that for me I especially look forward to the ending 😳, because I really enjoy that tune 🥰. I don’t know what your wife looks like 🙄, but could imagine a woman humming the tune accompanied by that guitar solo.
Aloha 🌺
I think Dieter F Uchtdorf got to know Thomas S Monson quite well in Germany when Monson was running assignments frequently in Europe. Uchtdorf wrote an article in the ensign about an experience they had together years before he was called as an apostle.
Thank you for this information, never effect my testimony.
Cool, as long as you know this and are happy, god speed to you!
Bro. Nemo, I believe that Elder Uchtdorf got to be a general authority, after meeting Pres. Monson in europe several times, and Pres. Monson liking him so much that he called/recommended him into the quorum of twelve apostles. This is just what I believe, I could be very wrong--anyone who knows the true story please relate it here and message me.
I appreciate it very much for starting this presentation with the example of Matt Holland speaking in general conference. Was young Holland called to speak by the prophet at the time (maybe Hinckley, not sure who was prophet at that time) WITHOUT Elder Holland dropping hints to the prophet to get some screen time for his son he hopes to get into church leadership positions ??? I doubt it happened WITHOUT encouragement from Elder Holland ?????
THE BIG QUESTION IS IF ELDER HOLLAND BECOMES CHURCH PRESIDENT, WILL HE CALL HIS SON MATTHEW INTO THE QUORUM OF TWELVE APOSTLES ?????? I DARE SAY HE WILL, BECAUSE IT SEEMS THAT ELDER HOLLAND HAS BEEN TRYING TO PROMOTE MATTHEW INTO CHURCH EXPOSURE/LEADERSHIP POSITIONS SINCE HIS TEENAGE YEARS ??????????
I COMMENT, YOU DECIDE.
Did you get Joseph Worthlin, brother in law to Gordon Hinkley?
Oops yes you did!
You bet!!
The primary fallacy behind the concern is that the Church should be directed from the Earth rather than Heaven. That's a pretty serious misunderstanding underneath all of this.
I’m not sure I understand, could you clarify?
@@NEMOTHEMORMON I'm suggesting that your concern about who is called is founded on the idea that the Church is directed from the Earth and not from the Lord. That's a pretty serious gap in understanding about the Church. The Church is led by the Lord, and whom is called is far less important. That's a foundational aspect of our faith on which virtually everything else hangs on. Without that core belief, then you really don't believe in the Gospel that the Church teaches, and one would question why you would call yourself a Mormon.
Ok, I think I’m getting it. The paradigm that the church is directed by the lord through his mouthpieces requires faith that the men who claim to be his mouth pieces are indeed acting in that capacity. Any evidence which may undermine that claim, such as those men engaging in activity unbecoming of one in that position like lying or pride, should be acknowledged and examined. So the concern is not that the church SHOULD be directed from earth instead of heaven, but that it IS being directed from earth, rather than heaven.
@@NEMOTHEMORMON You have created a false dichotomy. You have set up a scenario where these men are perfect or they can't be a prophet. Where would you get that idea? Certainly, the stories in the Bible should give you no legitimate expectation of such. Your claim that any behavior that does not meet your standard proves they are not guided from Heaven. I expect you would find no one suitable to do the Lord's work on earth - except maybe yourself?
This is where I have concerns about whether you are who you present yourself. A basic principle of the Gospel is that it's run by imperfect people - from the primary teacher to the prophet. We are all here to serve the best we can and all have different levels of discenrment. The point is, it's not the person in the calling that's important.
The problem with it, is that it's you directing the Lord and expecting to guide Him in how to run His church.
The fact is, the question is easy - it's the same process to determine if the Church is true. Moroni 10:4. It's basically a simple question - do you believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ as taught by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or not? You're entitled to receive an answer from Heaven. There really is no middle ground. If you don't believe in the leadership of the Church, you don't believe in the Church - not because they represent the Church specifically, but because that's what we believe the Gospel to be. If Joseph Smith, or any of his successors are not a prophet, then the Church is not true.
@@RichardChappell1 your last line is exactly the conclusion that led me to no longer believe the church claims. Once I found out that Joseph didn't actually follow most or all the moral laws of God (Don't bear false witness, don't commit adultery, don't steal, don't kill, he didn't even obey his own word of wisdom) it was easy to conclude that he was not a man of God. Especially when you look at his folk magic "glass looking" con man business past, you can tell that Joseph and his family were basically gypsy style swindlers and they eventually found a way to tap into religion for their big pay day.
A lot of this information is very helpful. On the other hand, I don't find it that surprising that old, largely business men have a habit of promoting only people they knew well and liked. There is probably a more objective vetting process to get more unbiased representation, but then, no one ever claimed that the process should be objective, and travel and technology have only recently become easy ways to communicate, relative to the life-span of an apostle. Still, the literal nepotism still displayed by the higher echelons don't look great, and seems to be symptomatic of significant problems.
Oh, I don’t think it surprising at all, you’re right!! And you’re also right about the optics, not a good look!
But I thought HF, who is not a businessman, inspired the selection?
Pretty sweet gig if you're well-connected enough to get in on it. If you can keep the flock convinced that you're somehow morally, spiritually, and/or intellectually superior, you can be treated like a living rock star, and benefit from being on the "taking" side of having millions of people surrender 10% of their incomes every month. Beats having to actually WORK for a living, don't you think?
"Pretty sweet gig if you're well-connected enough to get in on it" my thoughts exactly. They say power corrupts. Can you think of anything that could give you more of a power trip than having millions of people believe that you literally speak to and for God?
@@nickdipaolofan5948 Yeah, and particularly in a culture where people are taught to never question anything that comes "down" the channels, and that all misgivings about things surely come from Satan himself. It's okay to pray . . . but maybe more important to obey and pay, one might say. And you've got to be willing to roll with the tide of constantly shifting theology, doctrine, policies and priorities.
@@joetaylor8687 "And you've got to be willing to roll with the tide of constantly shifting theology, doctrine, policies and priorities." you and I have the exact same issues with the church! haha
It makes sense to me that there would be some leadership in the church that are descendants of loyal disciples of Christ. Not sure why this looked at in a negative light…
you spelled "most" wrong
Gosh Nemo like when do you sleep? And when is your book going to be published? Love ya!!!
No book planned, and not very long or very well haha! Cheers for the kind words!
Which one do we refer to as the Great Leader? Or Dear Leader?
Brilliant exposé 👍
Rasband being a former CEO of Huntsman Chemicals is important too.
Yes!
Who you gonna run a worldwide church with? The janitor at the school? That is in no way an insult as I'm sure he would feel incapable of such a task as well. Why all the hate. If you want the calling then do it. Otherwise support someone who wouldn't wish the calling on someone else and would be taking many cruises and having allot of fun if he were not an apostle
@@MrNashtyone "if you want the calling then do it" That is the entire point of this video, unless you are connected, you CAN'T get called into those positions. But if you are a son or nephew or somehow connected to a hire up, then you WILL get called if you want the position.
You sound like you have it all figured out so why don't you tell us the path someone could take to put themselves on the fast track to become an apostle? You seen to think there is a path that one can take, what is it? This video seems to prove that the "path" is making sure to come out of the correct birth canal............
Thank you for all of your hard work and research regarding the inspired calling 📞 s from the Lord...
Thanks for listening!
@@NEMOTHEMORMON Yey! I love the kind of short but very to the point information that you bring to the table by doing your homework/research and then giving us an education to what the facts...
Muy buen video.... excelente
Well, it is apparent you would take issue with the Book of Mormon. Consider Nephi, Jacob, Enos, Omni, etc. There is the 5-generation lineage from Alma the older to beyond the time of Christ. It happened in ancient times as well: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Ephraim and Manasseh.
Uchtdorf was very close to Thomas Monson and the church was already under some criticism for not having any foreigner in the top leadership of the church and then under pressure for lack of diversity as well, hence the changes. It's all based on data survey, that's how changes are happening.
Do we have any documentation of them being close?
Matthew Holland is coming to Boise, ID for our Stake Conference on 9/16/23. He has directed no zoom meetings. I know of several bed ridden widows who would love to listen to a GA, but screw them. He was President of a community college near BYU that is now getting university status, so he is following the pattern. Elder Uchtdorf was a popular Stake President who went on an Oprah type show in Germany, answered some 'tough' questions, and was well received. But that's all I know about that.
Keeping it all in the family or all among friends very interesting keep up the great work❗️
And yet in the scriptures God is calling Prophets from all walks of life, different ages, nationality and even outside the religious landscape, in fact mostly from outside than inside. This proves this church is just an organized religion in the front and a big business behind the scenes. Why would God call Samuel a 10 year old boy and today he only calls 80 year old men from Utah? Even in the Book Of Mormon, ironically God is calling people from outside the church to preach repentance to the most religious people and yet today if somebody outside the church claims to be called of God the leaders and members won't believe it or accept it. The LDS church became just like the Catholic church, hierarchy, wealth, power, secrecy and control. Any member who hasn't noticed that yet is completely blind to what's going on.
Thanks again for a great presentation. I wonder how much nepotism there is a the stake level and good old boy network.
I can tell you that I have seen a lot of it at the stake and local level as well. You will notice that a LOT of the stake callings are filled by people in the WARD in which the stake president came from. This is because the stake president knows more people in that ward better than other wards. This is fine, but is shows that "inspiration" seems to be limited to who you already know..... Same with ward callings. Once a new bishop is called, you will generally notice that many of the bigger callings are filled with people who were already in that bishops circle of friends and those he served with in prior callings. Of course not ALL callings can be that way because there is basically a calling for everyone in the ward (or else they will invent a new calling if they are short on callings) but you will notice that generally the decision making callings go to those in the social circle of the person giving out the callings.
Heck, my wife was called as young womens president and she did in fact pray hard for who should be her counselors but I KNEW in my head that she would likely pick her two best friends and sure enough those were the two names she submitted. One of them was already serving in a stake calling and was denied and so she submitted another name that just happened to be mutual friends of my wife and the other counselor.
Now, My wife honestly was trying to be guided by the spirit, but it sure is funny how the spirit usually just confirms what we already want to do in our hearts. We are all guilty of this mindset. It is not an indictment on us, but the church as a whole and the claims made regarding being led by God and the spirit.
It trickles down I’m sure!