V-sl*r horseBoi here, can’t even talk that good. He just does annunciations good and hes always knowing all these word definitions. So lame. Being swoll and 6’2” is all V-sl*r has going for him. If Destiny were 6’2” of straight beef with dad voice… Vaush would be selling pencils from a cup… Facts
I love when people walk right up to the point. Stare at it a bit. Squint. And then promptly proceed to turn around and charge head-first in the other direction cause they "didn't see anything there." Case in point poor guy that made the latest Vaush Bad vid of the month.
@@danwarb1 Like what? The scientific method is so broad it should encompass anything passing off as science. It’s literally just 1. Notice a thing 2. Think of how to test it 3. Test it 4. Summarize your test
@@CteCrassus haha yeah formally, but a 10year old could use the scientific method to see if a baseball can flush down the toilet and there’s not much of a peer review process one can do there
I like how one of his criticisms is literally just “Watch all 4 of Professor flowers video’s, multiple times, and accept that you’re wrong and she’s right 😠”
I like how you didn’t bother *listening* to what was said, and just nodded long with someone that kept repeating White Genocide narratives, while projecting them onto a Black Woman. … Thank you for proving ChemicalMind’s point of not ignoring the suggestion that you should listen to the other person that Vaush slandered.
Did you watch them, though? I haven't yet, but I'm probably going to, just in case, since the guy did make a couple convincing points elsewhere in his video. His admittedly wonky phrasing there is obviously not magically proof that those 4 videos can't possibly provide evidence that Flowers is in fact more reasonable than she came across in the Vaush debate.
@@DaveGrean I did. I watched all of them without commentary. I’m not going to pretend like she was some frothing lunatic in every minute of each video, but I don’t think she did a good job at articulating her points and providing meaningful criticism, and she would not back off her point that colonized people should have a right to ethnically cleanse white people. But that’s just my perspective, and it’s been awhile since I watched them.
*Laziness is a Virtue* in my line of work and others (I work with Computer Networks). AUTOMATE ALL THE THINGS, that's the premise. A Sysadmin that doesn't automate everything they can is a buffoon who's incompetent and too afraid they could lose their job so they want to make themselves essential to the company, and get praise for doing things with brute force, instead of being yelled at. "BUT HE WORKS 12 HOURS! HE'S SUCH A HARD WORKER!" No. They're bad news and a harbinger of bad things to come for both coworkers and company.
Given that Vaush has been clear that he has ADHD, it's also _unironically ableist_ to insinuate that a tendency toward being lazy/unconscientious makes you unworthy of having opinions. The fact that it's clip chimped with _zero context_ and continues to do just that throughout the video is just a complete lack of self awareness.
57:00 "even a fucking fraction of a second to express your horrible unthought ideas out, on my platform, is a gift given to you at the expense of being talked down to by me." Dead! LMAO!
This is probably the best Vaush quote because it is pretty much entirely true but also damn does it sound arrogant. No hate or anything, I wish I had that confidence but it’s also probably the last thing I’d want to show someone if I was trying to convince them that Vaush is good actually.
You know what’s funny? That quote you mentioned, PERFECTLY EXPLAINS why Vaush gets his detractors. His unbridled arrogance, paired with his lack of self-awareness, are prime examples of why Vaush bred a Cult of Personality. It’s no wonder Leftists don’t take him seriously.
Oh please. By all means. Convince us why a massive western chauvinist, sexist, Closet Nazi is “Actually good” for Leftism. Don’t worry. Give it a few years, and he’ll be *the next* Economist Paul Johnson. (He already supports NATO, defended sanctions against Afghans, and wants to promote war with China. So he’s halfway there… all we need now is for him to defend Right-Wing Death Squads and we’re golden!)🙂
@@SolracDude Dude, no. It's not confidence. It IS arrogance. His ego is inflated way too much. This quote just demonstrates how dishonest he is, by putting himself up on a pedestal like that when we're not supposed to be behind anyone like that. Nor should ANY socialist stroke their own dick like that.
I love how you don’t bother to listen to ANY of Vaush’s critics, as Vaush does everything his critics say he does. How many examples do you need to see BEFORE you finally de-program yourself?
I just rewatched that fellow traveler debate the other day, and any attempt to say that guy was good faith all along is complete bullshit. Vaush is slightly mean to him to start and the guy just goes completely insane from there. The dude just wanted to recite paragraphs and it was embarassing
Was that the guy who opened up with something like "as a great man once said" and proceeded to read some quote from some leftist? Man that was engraved in my brain and that pandering brings ire to my body.
@@lava172 How can you tell they have notifications on? Or are you just assuming so because they have like 25 comments on this channel alone 😅 Just curious cause if that's a thing, I didnt know.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 3.0 > le ebin pdf.file tries to ebically shit up comments Go and touch grass or whatever it is that grows outside your mom's house
Yup. It's from an interview on Fox News dancing on the grave of Jerry Falwell and mercilessly clowning an indignant but (of course) completely outclassed Sean Hannity.
I used to say "Republicans don't care about what they're in charge of as long as they're in charge. You could make them Chancellor of a cup of pencils and they wouldn't mind". I think my point was a bit muddled and confused, basically I meant that republicans constantly undermine the country they're supposed to be improving. Wasn't a fan of hitchens so I'm not sure where I got that phrase. I feel like it had to be fairly common phrase.
Classic example of another fan who doesn't leave the house and touch grass. Once again, as vaush has pointed out as well many many times, if you go out and talk to normal average citizens who aren't terminally online you will quickly find out that we have a lot of PR work to do for leftist ideas before any big political actions can be taken without blowback. They think that doing things strategically means doing nothing, but literally moving normies into generic leftist thought is possibly the most important activism that can be done.
And they also don't understand that telling people "the Soviet Union and China are good, actually" is going to repulse 99.9% of people. Unless they're also a delusional tankie, of course.
@@sunnyta1990 yes, it's like how some lefties don't understand that telling a 14 yr old that's been saying the n word on their video game "it's not my job to educate you" or going on a rant about college level institutional racism isn't going to do anything at all. The average 22 yr old is not going to have a good grasp on the meaning of the word "institutional" in general, much less the average people who would be centrist or right wing. If you want to move apolitical people to the left you HAVE to speak at their level.
@@unholylemonpledge9730 eh, that depends, there are people who use those terms and actually do go outside. Regardless, the point still stands, we have a lot of PR work and convincing to do before we can EVER get to a leftist country. I mean the it’s so bad the USA citizens thing fucking social democracy is fucking stalanism or some shit, we have a LOT of work to do.
-It's the "HITLER'S APPROVAL RATINGS DROPPED AFTER WW2" guy! I'm such a huge fan!- Oh well, I had my hopes up for a moment there. I remember one of my favourite Vaush quotes was in that video. When the dude completely went off the deep end after having his own trump cards repeated back to him and had to pretend he wasn't profoundly angry about it, Vaush replies "just while we're rounding off the lunatic bingo, do you want to call me a Jew?"... xD
This guy made a preview of this video which i left a comment on saying his take was bad, but that worse, he's making really bad arguments and also presenting them in a terrible way. I saw it as an exercise to steelman positions i disagreed with while also hopefully giving some tips that could get him to make better critiques. He replied minutes later saying that he wasn't going to respond to any of what i was saying because it was silly. Excited to see if Vaush points out all the things i said already, and backs up that this dude was making bad arguments badly.
OH I remembered the thing that got me to leave a comment on this dude. Right at the end of his preview video, he said that Vaush lives in LA, and i'm pretty sure he brings up that Vaush has a wikipedia, meaning he could have looked right at the top of the wikipedia page and seen that he lives in Seattle. I htink there was another basic fact or two on the wiki page that he got blatantly wrong in his video that were such obvious and easy mistakes that anyone who wrote a script shoudl have easily caught.
I rewatched the Flowers debate and both her and his reviews of those debates. I have a two page write up on my thoughts, so I don't have sit through that again. Sparknotes: Flowers and Vaush are usually misunderstanding each other because they use the same word to mean different things. Other than that Flowers definitely hates Vaush and, in my opinion, does want a genocide though never states it in those words.
I think you're right. PF and Vaush do talk past each other, but PF also doesn't think through her arguments to the logical conclusion Vaush hits. Vaush, from previous research, understands there is no peaceful ethnic cleansing, whereas PF is clueless about that.
@@sunnyta1990 That was my take. The objection I saw was the objection of a white guy telling people of color that certain acts are unethical and immoral regardless while she was saying if they wanted to commit ethnic cleansing then that was up to them as this white guy cannot tell them what not to do. Meanwhile she is not native American yet thinks she can speak for Native American Land Back which largely is just getting full control over the original land mass their initial treaties stated. It is not about kicking people off the land but about again full governorship of said land. Vaush though was specifically talking about South Africa. What I got from Luna, Non Complete, and Flowers was their cause can never do bad things so if they did it then it would not be ethnic cleansing even though in any objective context it would be ethnic cleansing. If you look at the material conditions of Germany, it felt land locked and the purpose of 1871 unification was to finally create a German nation state. They also saw that eastern Europe as stolen land from the now extinct Eastern Germanics by the Slavs. The German Empire's goal in WWI was the expansion east to reclaim these lands. Hitler rekindled that idea but took it to 11. In their eye it was justified due to their cause but objectively it was genocide and ethnic cleansing. Non Complete and Luna just did not understand that yet wanted to blither on about the material conditions if they were right. Right how? If you remove those from power and they post no threat to you then you won but to then kill them and their family is just revenge killing over what? If the person who you removed from power has committed crimes then you bring them to trial under the new govt.
President Sunday stuck his neck out to defend Professor Flowers and she rewarded him by making a video basically admitting that she's totally ok with black South Africans doing an ethnic cleansing on the Boers, essentially confirming everything Vaush and others criticized her for. "Colonizers" is really just her euphemism for white people she thinks need to die.
The impression I got from PF was that she was very wrong about some things that she hadn't really thought about, and that rather than think about them she instead got deeply offended that a white person was pointing out her mistakes. She's also racist. I mean, her response to being accused of conflating "white" with "colonizer" was to say that whites are colonizers. What bothers me is the number of people who support her and just uncritically repeat everything she says. It's very disturbing. The whole question of whether she wants ethnic cleansing is also kinda weird. Like, if I don't want my pregnant girlfriend to have an abortion but I support abortion rights, I'm pro-choice. Likewise, if she doesn't want ethnic cleansing but supports people's right to commit it, she is pro-ethnic cleansing. It doesn't matter if she would personally murder a white person.
Because Vaush is a lukewarm liberal who is barely left-wing of mainstream democrats. He's "radical" enough that Liberals can feel like they're fighting the good fight while remaining within their US State Department programming.
PF was really weird about her trans detractors in particular. Why the need to specifically point out your detractors as "white trans women"? It strikes me as the same thing people do when they want to make a misogynist claim, but don't want to be called a misogynist, so they talk about "white women" instead of "women".
Because it is all identity politics to her and her fellow wokescolds. They believe white trans women are more privileged than back cis women, so under oppression olympics, it means that that PF is right because she is higher up (or is it further down?) on the oppression totem pole.
She definitely has some Dave Chappelle "okay you can advocate against your marginalization, but just never forget black people are the most marginalized and deserve the most attention" bend to her.
… I’m sorry… What about “White Trans Women” being “detractors?” Sure, they will *repeat* Anti-China sentiment, support Ukrainian Nazism, and start repeating White Nationalist talking points (like Vaush did…) soooo… what was it about White Trans Women being detractors again?
Tankies love obsessing over figures they perceive as leaders. Literally they are like “wow dude based based look at the old Soviet parades. Comrade Stalin above everyone else, looking down at workers waving at him”. They love hierarchy and are HUGE simps of the state, yet they want a communist stateless society 🤡
@@summerlovinxx well I think they mean in the sense of like, making it out as of they escaped a cult or something, like a confession. Like I watch Vaush a LOT but I don’t claim to know him or think I do through some weird parasocial relationship, I just think what he has to say is interesting and generally makes the case for socialism on a moral framework which I enjoy. Also just his assessment of the I guess mindset of the reactionary, what’s at the core of why they think the way they do, and it’s usually a variety of things, whether it be groomed into a cult almost, to abuse, to just being a sadistic psychopath. I find it all rather interesting and he has convinced me why leftism and socialism is good.
To be fair I think a lot of people tend to watch primarily a small group of content creators that will rotate over time. I don’t think that’s particularly cult like, I think humans can just only keep track of so many things at once.
I’m surprised that *the only thing* they all got out of it was “it’s TANKIE shit, it’s really bad”, and then proceeded to agree with Vaush on everything… (as Vaush did literally *everything* his critics criticize him for. Like skipping, not watching everything, and proving that Debating Vaush is a waste of time.)
"against every socialist project in history" Like Catalonia, free territory of Ukraine, Zapatistas, student protestors in Hungary, modern Kurdistan... All projects that tankies are notoriously supportive of
@@UmQasaann What the fuck are you talking about? They don’t call themselves anarchists but definitely exist outside of the state and practice self management
Every single successful communist experiment, regardless of how long it lasted, was thanks to anarchists. No tankie or ML experiment has ever reached communism.
that's not real socialism, real socialist countries were the ussr, china, democratic kampuchea, the countries of the warsaw pact, and north korea (the only one that still exists)
Being the confused and clueless middle eastern teenager I am who's not all that informed on political issues, I watch hour-long vaush videos just for entertainment's sake (and also improving English, but we don't talk about that) and whenever drama comes up, I absolutely have no idea whose side I'm on and yet somehow I still keep watching and don't really understand why...
but seriously tho, how and where can I start informing myself more on political issues? it's kinda like I know the very top of the iceberg but not to the extent where I can have the confidence to form my own political beliefs and takes
@@avinatineI really appreciate your humility about forming political opinions. This means you're already on a great track. I would recommend to get as much political news as you deem reasonable and critically evaluate the morality of it and then listen to reasonable commentators speak about it.
im russian and exactly the same happened to me with hasan's streams lmao, if you watch long enough and dont idolise the streamer you will at some point start forming your own opinions
People in general suck at nuance, so growing up in a post-2008 financial crisis world, many young adults will find themselves accepting left wing ideals uncritically... To be clear, I'm happy they at least "picked the right side" so-to-speak, but I'm disturbed at the lack of logic some use to arrive at those positions. Some even openly deride the concept of arguing for one's ideas or having a defense for them, because "debate is toxic". Don't get me wrong--interlocutors can be toxic, but debate is a tool. And my hot take is, being anti-debate makes you anti-science. And like the scientifically illiterate, I worry that these people were simply one charismatic demagogue away from becoming a right-winger or even a fascist; the lack of logical tools means that it is purely by chance that they ended up being a communist and not an outright fascist. (To be clear, I mean this about younger communists today, not communists in general, nor am I referring to the video author persay)
The only valid argument Anti-Vaush iv ever heard is that he can be a bit mean while debating. Every other Anti-Vaush hit piece turns out like this one.... And how does he sound so sure of himself when the guy feeding him Vaush info SCREAMED AND YELLED LIKE A TODDLER ON STREAM???
@@Krawnbundungle I gave his video an earnest watch. if I'm wrong about something or being mislead I want to know! But I came away disappointed. He just raged half the time and I counted maybe 2 good criticisms and lots of bad faith. Then I heard a few sussy bits like using !authoritarianism! (state power) to enforce socialism. I don't think I'm socialist but I definitely don't like authoritarianism or a lack of democracy.
@@vitXrasBecause he had emotions doesn't detract from a point. Vaush is wrong about many things, short sighted on a few, but doesn't ever think he is. His audience reinforces that idea to the point his words are what dictates who is right and who is wrong. He's crafted a community friendly to Nazis or alt-right but hostile to actual leftists ideals and POC. So as a leftist, ya probably wouldn't be interested in being friendly with Nazis. Vaush is the bare minimum of leftist ideal was the point.
These types of leftists are such ivory tower purity testers. "You're not a leftist because of this thing you did when you were an edgy teen" or "you're not a leftist because you engaged with conservatives" or "you're not a leftist because you had an argument with this other leftist"... nobody can possibly be on the left then when you have such strict requirements that the only way to be a real leftist is to live in an isolated bubble where you had nothing to do with anything not-leftist. Then these guys wonder why they can't build a movement that motivates anybody except their own tiny internet niche
Hey credit to PF in calling those trans people white and not colonizers. Maybe she just forgot, but I like to believe she's making baby steps towards getting better about the racial essentialism.
@Uncreative Username Oh God, you're doing the same thing PF does. Please for the love of God, if youre not a troll, please learn that colonialism isn't an ethnic/racial characteristic.
@@ismeal231 When one demographic is currently benefiting from the colonialism and does a "Whataboutism" about other ethnicities that done colonialism 5,000 years ago to excuse their current exploitation. There's only one demographic that's currently benefiting and the thing is that one demographic has commited mass atrocities that's still being felt to this day.
@@IceAxe1940 Sure, and your suggestion is what? Because the issue was never of saying "we need to get rid of colonial powers". It was always that PF literally said that she wouldn't mind if all white people were kicked from their homes because their ancestors were colonizers. She justified that by equating colonizers with EVERY individual white person, which, as such, essentializes white people as "the colonizers".
@@radiofloyd2359 If they're actively not trying and when I mean trying I mean actively advocating for Black South Africans more rights, representation in proportion to the population size (95% of the population is black and are impoverished) Then they're fine, but if you're white in south Africa and you're fine with the continued exploitation of black south Africans then you're complicit and you should leave the country, in no country should 6% of the Population control 90% of all institutional power at all. They're colonizers that's literally what they are it doesn't matter how long they've been there they're still benefiting from a system that was made for them just for them. As I stated before if you're not actively fighting that same system you're no better than the white supremacists who established it.
Imagine watching the joker tankie debate and coming away from it like: "you know what? This guy had some great points. He kinda destroyed Vaush to be honest."
"Joker Tankie" has infinitely better content than Vaush, Vaush content is retarded "if you are slightly to the Left of open Nazism you are a Leftie!!11!"
@@stehfreejesseah7893 mabe someone could counvince tall bart, someone who makes YTPs from right wing pundits like Jordan Peterson or Dennis Prager, to make one from the Joker Tankie discourse
Honestly with PF the thing I’m stuck on isn’t even her white = colonizer take. That’s dogshit, sure, but to me the thing that bugs me the most that no one seems to bring up is the fact that in one of her response videos she claimed Liberia was a positive example of Black Separatism. I don’t want to get into the history now, but lets just say that as a halfoid black person and a Pan-African advocate, I find this position to be utterly repulsive and disqualifying for anyone who wants to speak on Black/African issues and politics.
The problem with tankies is very simple, the essentialization of very complex dynamics into very black and white narrativized structures that represent reality about as well as a 4x4 pixel display represents a sunset over a thriving city on the ocean; which also means they tend to fall into the fascist shtick of generalizing groups of people and then believing if only they could get rid of those people everything would be fine, then comes the ends justify the means mentalities and at that point truth is whatever they cherry pick from the complex spectrum of material conditions that is most convenient to whatever point they're trying to make at the time. They are the quintessential expression-as much as they like to project this onto everyone else-of socialism as expressed through the internalized modes of thought of our current capitalist systems, and to an extent even feudal ones. People like this existed when Marx was still alive, and he hated them; hence the "if these people are Marxists, I am not" quote conservatives often like to misrepresent. Seeing the rise of this trend has made me believe teaching good methodology is way more important than spreading political theory. Because with good methodology I do genuinely believe most will end up leaning in a socialist direction anyways, even if not explicitly, whereas people with bad methodology can grasp onto socialist ideas with both hands, and possibly even anus, and still be diametrically opposed to everything it represents. Sigh, I had started this whole thing with "it's so simple I don't even have to go into one of my usual comment dissertations...", needless to say I removed that bit.
Who doesn't? I also channeled a lot of my darker impulses into Postal II and Black and White back in the day, too! It's good to have an outlet for that stuff.
The Red Army kicked Hitler's ass, no matter how much America tried to prop him up to achieve his dream of ethnically cleansed USSR. The Red Flag was raised in Reichstag, and the defeated Nazis paraded in Red Square, in front of Stalin, with their banners tossed in the ground (hilariously enough, the Soviet government cleaned the streets after the event, from the Nazi filth). It is the Americanoid cryptofascists that have yet to recover till this day. "We defeated the wrong enemy!11!😭"
I think the difference with vaush (for me at least) is I don’t treat him how everyone treats their “favorite” streamer/RUclipsr. When I hear vaush I never walk away like “this guy is REALLY pushing this agenda on me” he makes his argument nd I’ll either agree or disagree nd that’s that. But when I see people criticize vaush it’s not just “hey he made these bad points” it’s more like vaush is this disgusting evil person and if you still like him or listen to him then you’re just as bad” 😂 I see vaush as more of a Jon Stewart, it’s just an easier way of hearing a different perspective.
35:08 Whenever I go out harassing other people on Vaushes order, I only use the correct terminology of Vaushite or Vaushist to bring forth the worst version of Fascism...Vaushism
This dude strikes me as the type that wants to believe that "most people are good at heart" and as such is extremely reluctant to call anyone a liar, exemplified by the PF shit. This tracks because when vaush and his community call her out on being a liar, or seeing through fellow travelers excuses, he pearl clutches and goes "how dare you!", reflexively taking their side because they weren't rude rude first. The kind of centrist that doesn't believe anyone can be covertly racist and when you point out obvious dogwhistles or euphemisms they tut tut at you for playing into the rights hand by calling everyone who disagrees with you racist.
I watched as much of this as I could stand. It was brutal. For me, of course. Now I can get behind a react to it. I don't understand how he could've ever been a fan. The comments were full of just the most annoying people too. For the most part. Lol. Also, congrats Vaush, you really lost so much weight. Good on you bro!!! Always inspirational.
I will say you've become more graceful and less beligerent over the years, but mostly because you can zing someone so hard their face flies off without having to shit on their face to do it.
**Vaush mentioning HoI4 people talking about recreating culture** Meanwhile me making a HoI4 mod for my friends' Minecraft server while watching I love the absolute insane disparity in the HoI community One half wants to conquer the world as France or Germany The other half plays Old World Blues and makes 'what if Luxembourg won WW1' mods
My least favorite thing about these anti-vaush/anti-debatebro people is they always assert that vaush viewers simply have less experience with, or knowledge of leftism/politics.. but it's simply not true. I know far more about leftist politics and politics in general than every single one of them, and I don't mean that as a flex, it's just true. I have watched their vids and read their statements. Even FD signifier, who used to be a professor and brands himself as a "theory guy" or whatever, sometimes fails to adequately describe the material he himself cites, and has plenty of gaps in his "theory".. which isn't a bad thing necessarily, it just means superior knowledge of leftist politics isn't what makes people dislike vaush.. it's just false. And the others are frankly still baby leftists and not really worth mentioning.. at best they have a general grasp of one or two broad topics.
And also, yeah? So? The whole project is to reach out to people. If your movement can only onboard poli-sci majors, your movement is DOA. Of course, the whole claim is dishonest. They're really just trying to imply that their weird brand of fascism is the only true leftism. That anybody who actually knows about this stuff (rings of "do your own research") would naturally come down on the side of Russian dictators. But then, if they had good arguments, they wouldn't be tankies.
"My least favorite thing about these anti-vaush/anti-debatebro people is they always assert that vaush viewers simply have less experience with, or knowledge of leftism/politics." Too bad, because they're objectively correct.
Half of the video is about him not blaming himself for being a former cultist follower of Vaush; the other half if him being a cultist follower of another tankie and white knighting him.
This is like the time I posted on my Facebook "hey so Live Nation is able to be a huge shitty monopoly a lot because American anti-trust law isn't enforced" and this dude comes in with "the problem is capitalism". Which is true, but 3 comments later he was rambling to my friend about CIA interference in the 1950s. Agh
The fact that I got the og video and other small vids like it recommended to me before this response was uploaded tells me I should probably do some grass touching 😅
I scrolled past this video the other day, thinking oh great, I wonder if vaush will see this and tear it apart like some sweet bussy, and what a pleasant surprise i was greeted with today!
Even if she's correct you should be able to explain why, it's the same kind of argument as "read theory" but they never point to what theory proves you wrong.
@@InsecureCreator Because its the equivalent of, "I totally have a girlfriend. She goes to another school. You don't know her." People who know a counter-argument state the argument but tankies treat "theory" like Christians treat scripture. They don't know it, they've never read it, but they know it agrees with them.
12:27 I think this argument very interesting. He's arguing that CAPITALIST parties running in Cuban elections. Even if we say capitalist parties will always take control with the help of the U.S. and capital interests, this doesn't actually excuse a one-party-state, like Cuba is. Why aren't there multiple socialist parties, that are independent from each other? And don't tell me "But other parties aren't socialism then and will be taken advantage of by the U.S.", that could happen within factions of a vanguard party. There is actually a single M-L lead country that actually has multiple parties, which is Nepal (the only country that had a revolution after the Soviet Union fell coincidently). There are corruption problems within the communist parties (there are multiple). But it's far better than China, Vietnam or Cuba on political freedoms and their election system is better than the U.S. one, as more than 2 parties can be represented. I just wished M-Ls would stop defending 1 party states. There are probably more disagreements with M-L ideology, but being against free elections is the point where I just can't even interact with such people on principal.
fun fact the fbi release something( i think it was a book) that said MLism is the best ideology in the left to be infiltrated by then and that MLism was a way to put the workers against themselfs and the fbi said that anarchist groups was too hard to infiltrate because anarchists read too much
Hey I was on TV! :3 for those curious this was the comment he censored! This comment he referred to as deranged, right-wing, bad faith, and insulting comments he had ever read on his channel. Tell me what you guys think below! Before starting I would like to say that I don't think you were EVER a fan, you just wanted to use that as a rhetorical device to help legitimatize your points, but I digress. 1) The "so-called" authoritarian state of Cuba? Just a quick list of the human rights abuses including No Freedom of Speech, No Freedom on the Press, Restrictions on the Freedom of Religion, No Freedom of expression, No Freedom of association, Full State control of the media, Arbitrary Detention and Imprisonment without Due Process and Trials, Travel restrictions, political prisoners, Abuse and Execution of Political Opposition, Citizen Oppression by Coercion, Fear, and Punishment, Forced labor camps and abuse of prisoners, Control access to information over the internet, forced youth labor in agricultural camps, Use of police coercion and brutality. But remember all of that is okay and not actual authoritarianism cause Global Capitalism. 2) Socialism never working electorally in a historical sense means it can never work in the current day or in the future. Honestly why did Lenin even attempt a revolution? I pretty much never happened historically at that point so why did he even bother? 3) Your definition of Marxist-Leninist is just a one-party socialist state where only the party members can vote. The purpose of this state is to transition into stateless and classless communist society. The actual point being made is that various governments use this label as an excuse to act as authoritarians and do whatever they want. That may be the proper definition of the term the actual point being made is that people regularly change its definition to suite whatever end is most needed in the moment. Lastly many anti-imperialists fighting against colonialism use the label in order to get support from the USSR and China and usually abandon socialism all together once they actually taken power. Any action taken by states who call themselves Marxist-Leninist you people will justify because it opposes global capital somehow, no matter how morally abhorrent those actions are or even if they adopt right-wing economic structures. 4) The hypocrisy of saying that Vaush never shows the whole video while you never show a vaush clip that goes further than 10 seconds or just don't provide clips at all. Say what you will about Vaush but he always SHOWS the clip he is making a response to in real time. 5) You source several books out of context without giving page numbers, the author of the book, when it was written, or even the title of the book itself. 6) So the CIA funded a cartoon of animal farm (which changed alot about the original book Orwell wrote.) There for everything Orwell wrote is hereby not valid and not actually working towards socialism. 7) You would bring up professor flowers. The woman who could answer the simple question yes or no question of should genocide and displacement (which is always genocide) should be or should not be used. Professor Flowers probably wouldn't be accused of being in favor of genocide if she just said that genocide was bad regardless of who is doing it. Also, I like how you left out the fact that Vaush had a great conversation with an actual land-back advocate and not the one saying natives should have to right to slaughter white people on mass if they want to. 8) Eristocracy is not a Zionist Ethnonationalist, although I don't know why you even brought her up because the one of the people you are sucking up to (BadEmpanada) said that she should be put in a camp. I don't think it's a very good look to support the guy who said it's okay to put the Jew in a camp. Lastly Eris has regularly criticized the Israeli government to the point where the larger Jewish community rarely comes to her defense, has advocated for large-scale reparations, and the end of the settlements for a two-state solution. In fact, the only reason BadEmpanada labeled her a Zionist is because she refused to support the abolishment of Israel and every Jew currently living in Israel being either killed or being forcibly deported. But keeping running interreference for your antisemite. 9) He was not an American military officer he was a Nato special operations officer whose main role was training of soldiers. You don't know if he actually committed any war crimes in Iraq unless merely being involved in a war you don't agree with means that you are a war criminal now. More importantly the point of that conversation was to talk about the situation in Ukraine and Russia not about Iraq itself, so it was kind of irrelevant. All in all, a horribly put together video and quite honestly a nice view as to why you Tankies should not be taken seriously in any regard.
you're objectively wrong about eristocracy--that is, unless she changed her views/rhetoric in the last five or so months since i checked her channel out, but if she hasn't, she's definitely a zionist or at least a sympathizer. i remember trying hard to defend her and watched both of her israel-palestine conflict videos and read through all of her twitter at the time of the controversy and she does a lot of the both-sidesing, muddying the water shit israeli settler defenders use. as well as just straight up lying about the actions of the israeli military. she's also got some cringe takes about crt iirc? like, worse than vaush. besides that, this was pretty good. i was looking to see if any of this comment was over the line, or even just kind of overly mean and corny that might put him off...but no, if this is the comment and not a cleaned up version, this is completely fine and valid criticism. what a thin-skinned btchbaby that guy is.
Yes, socialism takes time, as should any foundational idea of life and the context one finds themselves in. That said, I've been a socialist since before this guy was born and I find Vaush one of the most effective online voices for socialism. No, he doesn't go into hours long discussions on theory, but those are meaningless anyways. What's important is to push people to the point where they understand that socialism is a concept worth exploring, while pointing out why the alternatives aren't really working. Once people have been propelled to that point they'll do a better job of educating themselves on the details by other means. As for the constant "he haven't done the organizing!" that's bunk. Reaching hundreds of thousands of people who, given most of them are Americans would never otherwise come into contact with politics to the left of liberalism except as a slur is more important than getting 18 people in your town to join your study circle or go on a march. There are specific points where I disagree with Vaush, of course there are. But in the grand scheme of things that's unimportant, the important thing is him reaching people and moving them ä, however slightly towards a better position. These people again seems to believe we don't need "normies" with a non-geek understanding of Marxist theory in the movement; that somehow the very small number of existing socialists could execute the revolution and then lead the people right as the thought leaders of the working class. That's a horrible position - it's been said that a society will always be a reflection of the means used to create that society and I think this is very true. A society created by anti-democratic, authoritarian means wil always be anti-democratic and authoritarian. True socialism with it's basis in the people won't come about until a majority of the people wants it, and the rest is prepared to at least accept it, that's what we need to work towards.
I didn't say you have to do that. What did I say right after I said to do reading? I said if you don't want to do reading, to at least 'listen' to people who have done the reading.
Is talking down to successful socialist experiments and tauting socialist ideas that either haven't worked or are pure idealization really the praxis we need to push people towards understanding us? Because the "that's not real socialism" argument doesn't work. And that's what Vaush does.
I've seen many scientists with PHD's use Wikipedia in real time when they are making outreach videos. Denigrating Wikipedia as a source of information really doesn't cut it any more.
not a PhD but honours student and aspiring doctor in physics - wikipedia is one of the most useful and reliable resources for getting a quick but thorough overview of a topic. i know that sciences have less room for bias, but anyone still in the wikipedia = inherently bad train is just misinformed at this point. it’s not a *source*, it’s a wiki, and an exceptional one. you can’t cite it, but you can read it
@@billyrussell7789 I feel like most people commenting this are either in high school or didn't continue education after high school. Their teacher's told them they couldn't use it and now it's just gospel for them.
@@xb5442 i do get that impression, yeah. so much of my undergrad has been a process of unlearning shit i was taught in high school for simplicities sake, both on the topics themselves, as well as the process of learning and researching. it’s the same energy as those “it’s just basic biology” ppl
I don't know why people go to the trouble of making vids like that. Vaush is a fringe character in a niche online community, he's not important enough to make this sort of thing. None of these streamers are really. I look at them as a positive if they're making a good rebuttal to the swathes of right wing content that's continually pumped out in online spaces. I don't expect them to change the world or be correct on everything, I expect them to provide a counter to right-wing propaganda that, in the past, swamped these spaces. Even though American left streamers tend to have a vestigial bit of American exceptionalism lol It's better than no pushback against American rightwingers, right-wing Americans influence more than just Americans, their nonsense seeps into other countries via Facebook and other social media.
It's less about actually being an effective resistance against right-wing influences to tankies and more about policing leftism to be their own holier-than-thou club.
@@zapkido2830 "Policing Leftism", like how you people call a "Tankie" anyone that disagrees with the US state department, even if he is a Social-Democrat (usually Third World and/or First World and "Red"), Trotskyite and Anarchist. Well, if he is a Liberal, or worse, who is against the State Department, too bad for him, he is now Vlad Putin's asset!😂😂😂
I was watching the vaush criticism vid and clicked on a random part of the vid and they started talking about MLs and I was like fuck this and clicked off the vid lol. I cannot be bothered listening to these ppl.
I’ve seen the video thumbnail over the past few days and ignored it. Figured Vaush would cover it anyway and it was going to be tankie bullshit. I was right.
Here’s a thought…no one is perfect no one should be stanned. Vaush has the occasional hot take that I don’t agree with… but who agrees 100% with anyone? How boring would life be of you did? I love people who dismiss sourced information i.e. Wikipedia. I think that just says it all about the dude complaining.
Unfortunately most people, even relatively sane people, just want someone to repeat their views back to them. Understandable, but unhelpful if you want to learn anything.
"noone could be this impossibly confident in themselves without being right about everything right?" This is why theyre a tankie, they see confidence and assume truth.
Some of us just want to pretend to be the Federation. Granted that's like, the least supported path and everything is easier when you go full totaltarian. But that's a dev issue not a me issue.
@@rainbowkrampus what if I'm just a massive nerd who likes the Borg, Dyson spheres, and Spaceships and want to mash all of them together into one big clusterfuck?
@@danyfighter562 You should try out Universe Sandbox if you like smashing stuff into a clusterfuck. "Hm, what happens if I drop the Earth into the Sun? Eh, not that exciting. Hm, what happens if I drop the Sun into the Sun?" Also fun? Blow up the Moon. It never ends well.
There's been 1 person that ever got banned from the community for being a stupid harasser. And that was DESPITE the fact that the victim (can't remember whether it was Kat Blaque, Noah or PF) had blocked the headmod of Vaush's community.
People that say Wikipedia is bad must not know how to read or scroll since they’re almost always stacked with resources, you click on them and then you read. Its amazing what can happens when your switch you brain on.
its just that the summaries on wikipedia can mischaracterize the sources used ! i love using wiki to find sources for things in a rush but for that reason i personally dont like using it for research alone
I find all this insane. I don’t agree with Vaush on everything, but these people are legitimately just seething. The messed up part is they turn this seethe against their movements instead of their inability to even slightly hold conversation.
Just in case people are wondering, the Kautaky quote on here is the original REAL quote, that DjMuel was wanting to refer too, but instead quoted a bastardized version of it from Conservative writer Richard Mitchell, who then was parroted by George will. Granted, I wouldn't argue that Lenin truely believed that there is no point in debate, as this argument is Is stated in Chapter 5 of a 8 chapter book, 122 pages, of Lenin debating Krautsky....feels more like Lenin was just butthurt and tried to say "well your not even worth debating" while continuing to debate him.
@@colinhobbs7265 the USSR was a de-facto monarchy for quite a while. And it’s not a republic without democracy or representation. The Soviet Union didn’t have representation because the Kremlin picked who you could vote for, and there was only one name on the ballot, including for local elections. It’s really hard to call that a republic. It seems like calling a monarchy a republic because the lord, his son, or the mayor (appointed) represented you at court, council, or parliament.
It was Socialist, if you believe Socialism is when the profit motive doesn't guide production, and the fruits of the Labour of the Working Class goes back to them, more or less. It was definitely all the other things too. Now, how "United" are the "United States of America", and who named the continent "America" anyway?🙄
@@Krawnbundungle Supportive of American intervention, supportive of the West in General, any genuine Communist and Socialist (People from the Global South) should be anti western, the west is a barrier to any Socialist and Communist success.
@@Krawnbundungle No genuine Socialist or Communist especially Anarchists would be supportive of NATO, EU, NAFTA, and the West as at any given opportunity all of those institutions I named above would crush such movements, the West is also the current imperialist hegemony that relies on the exploitation of Brown People and the global south.
@@IceAxe1940 "socialist" isn't a badge of honor, btw. It represents what you believe your positions are. If being a socialist involves being a shitty person, then I'll be the first to call myself not a socialist.
Yes. 1 linguistic class would tell you that the concept behind the same word can be different in different languages. This is why Japanese people would call green blue.
Blue and green also have their wavelengths. However words like water or aqua also have a cultural meaning. For example a bottle that contains 99% water and 1 % poison would be called a bottle of poison and not a bottle of water even after the most common molecule would be water.
The amount of times this person alludes to Vaush being wrong on a subject but never pointing out why, and then moving on to their next point is infuriating and hilarious
“Self-Identified Socialist.”
If we let other people define who were socialist, Hitler would count
Yeah, he unironically counts to some people. Which would be funny if it wasn't so absurdly asinine and damaging of a lie/myth.
I don't think he ever identified himself as a socialist
@@TROBassGuitar"I'm a libertarian socialist" is the way he has always answered to being asked about his political opinions
@@wumbojet I think he's referring to Hitler
@@crono276 oh, my bad.
What's the difference? /s lmao
Voosh, your mind is darkened by pornography. You cannot comprehend the depth of this video
Best comment 😂
V-sl*r horseBoi here, can’t even talk that good. He just does annunciations good and hes always knowing all these word definitions.
So lame. Being swoll and 6’2” is all V-sl*r has going for him.
If Destiny were 6’2” of straight beef with dad voice…
Vaush would be selling pencils from a cup…
Facts
Seeing a tiddy instantly kills you, trust me bro.
the problem of following a personality with a complicated reputation: you never which of the comments stem from trolls
@@696190 usually its pretty easy to figure out, but yeah. Sometimes it is
“Socialism isn’t a science, it’s a process.” - this guy, very clearly confused about what science is
I love when people walk right up to the point. Stare at it a bit. Squint. And then promptly proceed to turn around and charge head-first in the other direction cause they "didn't see anything there." Case in point poor guy that made the latest Vaush Bad vid of the month.
@@danwarb1 Like what? The scientific method is so broad it should encompass anything passing off as science. It’s literally just 1. Notice a thing 2. Think of how to test it 3. Test it 4. Summarize your test
@@danwarb1 the point is that science ITSELF is a process
@@W333L You forgot "Make your test public so your peers can repeat it themselves and see wether you fucked up".
@@CteCrassus haha yeah formally, but a 10year old could use the scientific method to see if a baseball can flush down the toilet and there’s not much of a peer review process one can do there
I like how one of his criticisms is literally just “Watch all 4 of Professor flowers video’s, multiple times, and accept that you’re wrong and she’s right 😠”
I like how you didn’t bother *listening* to what was said, and just nodded long with someone that kept repeating White Genocide narratives, while projecting them onto a Black Woman.
… Thank you for proving ChemicalMind’s point of not ignoring the suggestion that you should listen to the other person that Vaush slandered.
@Kikasitsu don't know in the conversation she constantly used the same rhetoric as white genocide fans.
Did you watch them, though?
I haven't yet, but I'm probably going to, just in case, since the guy did make a couple convincing points elsewhere in his video.
His admittedly wonky phrasing there is obviously not magically proof that those 4 videos can't possibly provide evidence that Flowers is in fact more reasonable than she came across in the Vaush debate.
@@DaveGrean I did. I watched all of them without commentary. I’m not going to pretend like she was some frothing lunatic in every minute of each video, but I don’t think she did a good job at articulating her points and providing meaningful criticism, and she would not back off her point that colonized people should have a right to ethnically cleanse white people.
But that’s just my perspective, and it’s been awhile since I watched them.
@@DaveGreanWhat were the other convincing points?
Tankies thinking tankie is a slur has the same energy as terfs/cis getting mad and saying those are slurs
Snowflakes all of them
Cis is a cringe term.
Tankie is a slur, *that’s why I use it*
@@AutismGaming489 cuz trans people are real , what you mean it's cis
@@AutismGaming489 cringe
“I’ll listen to 5 minutes”
*looks at time code*
👀
Meh more or less 5 minutes
Imagine clip chimping somebody admitting to being lazy.
Eyyy this guy ADMITTED he’s lazy! Got him boys!
@@catsforcomms1952 People who disagree with me just don't know politics good.
*Laziness is a Virtue* in my line of work and others (I work with Computer Networks). AUTOMATE ALL THE THINGS, that's the premise.
A Sysadmin that doesn't automate everything they can is a buffoon who's incompetent and too afraid they could lose their job so they want to make themselves essential to the company, and get praise for doing things with brute force, instead of being yelled at. "BUT HE WORKS 12 HOURS! HE'S SUCH A HARD WORKER!" No. They're bad news and a harbinger of bad things to come for both coworkers and company.
Given that Vaush has been clear that he has ADHD, it's also _unironically ableist_ to insinuate that a tendency toward being lazy/unconscientious makes you unworthy of having opinions.
The fact that it's clip chimped with _zero context_ and continues to do just that throughout the video is just a complete lack of self awareness.
@@josephdavis3472 That lack of self awareness is extremely prevalent among Tankies lmao
now that i know tankie is a slur i'm gonna say it more often
As a proud vaushite, I fucking LOVE SLURS
@@quinnrosenberg3500 only tactically
Tankies are horrible people with a misanthropic disdain for democracy and human rights. It’s okay to be mean to them.
@@pogo8050 Strategic, preferred targets are;
JK Rowling
Tucker Carlson
Richard Spencer
Vaushite here, huge agree
57:00 "even a fucking fraction of a second to express your horrible unthought ideas out, on my platform, is a gift given to you at the expense of being talked down to by me."
Dead! LMAO!
This is probably the best Vaush quote because it is pretty much entirely true but also damn does it sound arrogant. No hate or anything, I wish I had that confidence but it’s also probably the last thing I’d want to show someone if I was trying to convince them that Vaush is good actually.
You know what’s funny?
That quote you mentioned, PERFECTLY EXPLAINS why Vaush gets his detractors.
His unbridled arrogance, paired with his lack of self-awareness, are prime examples of why Vaush bred a Cult of Personality.
It’s no wonder Leftists don’t take him seriously.
Oh please.
By all means.
Convince us why a massive western chauvinist, sexist, Closet Nazi is “Actually good” for Leftism.
Don’t worry.
Give it a few years, and he’ll be *the next* Economist Paul Johnson. (He already supports NATO, defended sanctions against Afghans, and wants to promote war with China. So he’s halfway there… all we need now is for him to defend Right-Wing Death Squads and we’re golden!)🙂
@@SolracDude Dude, no. It's not confidence. It IS arrogance. His ego is inflated way too much. This quote just demonstrates how dishonest he is, by putting himself up on a pedestal like that when we're not supposed to be behind anyone like that. Nor should ANY socialist stroke their own dick like that.
That won you over? That was good? That made me so uncomfortable.
We are in a cult.... thank you for teaching me that.
I love how half the video is him just defending the joker guy.
Like the joker guy has to be at least near 30, and with this dude probably not being out of his teens the dynamic seems a bit yikesy
@@Krawnbundungle MAI WIFE
@@Krawnbundungle Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate fans be like:
I love how you don’t bother to listen to ANY of Vaush’s critics, as Vaush does everything his critics say he does.
How many examples do you need to see BEFORE you finally de-program yourself?
@Kikasitsu we just to see one single good one.
I just rewatched that fellow traveler debate the other day, and any attempt to say that guy was good faith all along is complete bullshit. Vaush is slightly mean to him to start and the guy just goes completely insane from there. The dude just wanted to recite paragraphs and it was embarassing
Still better than Vaush
@@Raj80191 omg a hate watcher with notifications on? youve got a lot going on in your life buddy
@@Raj80191 No, man.
Was that the guy who opened up with something like "as a great man once said" and proceeded to read some quote from some leftist? Man that was engraved in my brain and that pandering brings ire to my body.
@@lava172 How can you tell they have notifications on? Or are you just assuming so because they have like 25 comments on this channel alone 😅
Just curious cause if that's a thing, I didnt know.
Half of this video was literally just him malding about Vaush's debate with the pencil joker guy
@Cultured Anime Waifu 3.0 > le ebin pdf.file tries to ebically shit up comments
Go and touch grass or whatever it is that grows outside your mom's house
@culturedanimewaifu3.0 Okay guy with softcore loli porn in his playlists
Vaush should order a company to make Vaush branded pencils to celebrate the anniversary of that debate.
@Cultured Anime Waifu 3.0 bro you lose at life
@Cultured Anime Waifu 3.0 I can't believe you're already here, literally commenting 5 minutes after the video came out. God that's sad.
Jesus christ looking at old vaush is so different. You really did glow up voosh
It's the make-up. Only provided by the CIA
right? But frankly, i had a crush on him back then. At this rate he’s going to unstoppable
He looked better when he was fat
Why is his hair so much darker now?
@@michael.471 chopping off the sunbleached hair + change in lighting ig
I’m not sure where this idea that Voosh fans never disagree with him is coming from tbh
90% of Vaush content is fighting with his chat
It seemed like they never go on r/VaushV
Everything people say about vaush fans being rabid angry defenders is like 90% projection
half of Vaush streams is just chat disagreeing and him screaming at them
Seriously. One of my problems with Vaush, so far, is that he goes to bat for ShoeOnHead.
The guy stole the pencils from a cup insult from Christopher Hitchens, he's not even smart enough to come up with a decent insult on his own.
Yup. It's from an interview on Fox News dancing on the grave of Jerry Falwell and mercilessly clowning an indignant but (of course) completely outclassed Sean Hannity.
LMAOOO no way
Good catch!
I noticed the same thing in that debate because I used to be a cringe “new-atheist” and used the same insult for the same exact reason lol
I used to say "Republicans don't care about what they're in charge of as long as they're in charge. You could make them Chancellor of a cup of pencils and they wouldn't mind".
I think my point was a bit muddled and confused, basically I meant that republicans constantly undermine the country they're supposed to be improving.
Wasn't a fan of hitchens so I'm not sure where I got that phrase. I feel like it had to be fairly common phrase.
Classic example of another fan who doesn't leave the house and touch grass. Once again, as vaush has pointed out as well many many times, if you go out and talk to normal average citizens who aren't terminally online you will quickly find out that we have a lot of PR work to do for leftist ideas before any big political actions can be taken without blowback. They think that doing things strategically means doing nothing, but literally moving normies into generic leftist thought is possibly the most important activism that can be done.
And they also don't understand that telling people "the Soviet Union and China are good, actually" is going to repulse 99.9% of people.
Unless they're also a delusional tankie, of course.
@@sunnyta1990 yes, it's like how some lefties don't understand that telling a 14 yr old that's been saying the n word on their video game "it's not my job to educate you" or going on a rant about college level institutional racism isn't going to do anything at all. The average 22 yr old is not going to have a good grasp on the meaning of the word "institutional" in general, much less the average people who would be centrist or right wing. If you want to move apolitical people to the left you HAVE to speak at their level.
Anyone that uses the phrase 'touch grass' or 'terminally online' is terminally online and needs to touch grass
@@unholylemonpledge9730 eh, that depends, there are people who use those terms and actually do go outside. Regardless, the point still stands, we have a lot of PR work and convincing to do before we can EVER get to a leftist country. I mean the it’s so bad the USA citizens thing fucking social democracy is fucking stalanism or some shit, we have a LOT of work to do.
@@unholylemonpledge9730 ?
-It's the "HITLER'S APPROVAL RATINGS DROPPED AFTER WW2" guy! I'm such a huge fan!- Oh well, I had my hopes up for a moment there.
I remember one of my favourite Vaush quotes was in that video. When the dude completely went off the deep end after having his own trump cards repeated back to him and had to pretend he wasn't profoundly angry about it, Vaush replies "just while we're rounding off the lunatic bingo, do you want to call me a Jew?"... xD
I mean all tankies are basically the same person so
@@Krawnbundungle True!
Tankies will say democracy doesn't work, but then they won't bring up that he wasn't even reelected in 1949
This guy made a preview of this video which i left a comment on saying his take was bad, but that worse, he's making really bad arguments and also presenting them in a terrible way. I saw it as an exercise to steelman positions i disagreed with while also hopefully giving some tips that could get him to make better critiques. He replied minutes later saying that he wasn't going to respond to any of what i was saying because it was silly. Excited to see if Vaush points out all the things i said already, and backs up that this dude was making bad arguments badly.
OH I remembered the thing that got me to leave a comment on this dude. Right at the end of his preview video, he said that Vaush lives in LA, and i'm pretty sure he brings up that Vaush has a wikipedia, meaning he could have looked right at the top of the wikipedia page and seen that he lives in Seattle. I htink there was another basic fact or two on the wiki page that he got blatantly wrong in his video that were such obvious and easy mistakes that anyone who wrote a script shoudl have easily caught.
@@XanderLars2 Yeah but he admits in his video that he doesn't use wikipedia, and makes fun of others for using it xD
I rewatched the Flowers debate and both her and his reviews of those debates. I have a two page write up on my thoughts, so I don't have sit through that again.
Sparknotes: Flowers and Vaush are usually misunderstanding each other because they use the same word to mean different things. Other than that Flowers definitely hates Vaush and, in my opinion, does want a genocide though never states it in those words.
I think you're right. PF and Vaush do talk past each other, but PF also doesn't think through her arguments to the logical conclusion Vaush hits. Vaush, from previous research, understands there is no peaceful ethnic cleansing, whereas PF is clueless about that.
@@sunnyta1990 That was my take. The objection I saw was the objection of a white guy telling people of color that certain acts are unethical and immoral regardless while she was saying if they wanted to commit ethnic cleansing then that was up to them as this white guy cannot tell them what not to do. Meanwhile she is not native American yet thinks she can speak for Native American Land Back which largely is just getting full control over the original land mass their initial treaties stated. It is not about kicking people off the land but about again full governorship of said land. Vaush though was specifically talking about South Africa.
What I got from Luna, Non Complete, and Flowers was their cause can never do bad things so if they did it then it would not be ethnic cleansing even though in any objective context it would be ethnic cleansing.
If you look at the material conditions of Germany, it felt land locked and the purpose of 1871 unification was to finally create a German nation state. They also saw that eastern Europe as stolen land from the now extinct Eastern Germanics by the Slavs. The German Empire's goal in WWI was the expansion east to reclaim these lands. Hitler rekindled that idea but took it to 11. In their eye it was justified due to their cause but objectively it was genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Non Complete and Luna just did not understand that yet wanted to blither on about the material conditions if they were right. Right how? If you remove those from power and they post no threat to you then you won but to then kill them and their family is just revenge killing over what? If the person who you removed from power has committed crimes then you bring them to trial under the new govt.
President Sunday stuck his neck out to defend Professor Flowers and she rewarded him by making a video basically admitting that she's totally ok with black South Africans doing an ethnic cleansing on the Boers, essentially confirming everything Vaush and others criticized her for. "Colonizers" is really just her euphemism for white people she thinks need to die.
@@DevinMacGregor I'm sorry, but I think it's hilarious that you called non-compete "noncomplete".
The impression I got from PF was that she was very wrong about some things that she hadn't really thought about, and that rather than think about them she instead got deeply offended that a white person was pointing out her mistakes. She's also racist. I mean, her response to being accused of conflating "white" with "colonizer" was to say that whites are colonizers. What bothers me is the number of people who support her and just uncritically repeat everything she says. It's very disturbing.
The whole question of whether she wants ethnic cleansing is also kinda weird. Like, if I don't want my pregnant girlfriend to have an abortion but I support abortion rights, I'm pro-choice. Likewise, if she doesn't want ethnic cleansing but supports people's right to commit it, she is pro-ethnic cleansing. It doesn't matter if she would personally murder a white person.
Why do these tankies always act as though people who watch vaush stay in a weird vaush based bubble, never interacting with ideas outside of vaush?
I watch several lefties on RUclips. Vaush tends to just be right though.
Because Vaush is a lukewarm liberal who is barely left-wing of mainstream democrats. He's "radical" enough that Liberals can feel like they're fighting the good fight while remaining within their US State Department programming.
@@plumetheum7017 you could just say "I don't know" and save the time.
@@xuxuang8574 I think that's a lesson that Western "Leftists" and the West's Gusano bootlicker types need to learn more than anyone.
@@TheSurrealist. Right, as in "Right-Wing"🤣
"Sure, I'll watch 5 minutes..."
...One hour later Vaush starts to wrap things up.
See he is a liar
@@TragickSin😂😂😂
PF was really weird about her trans detractors in particular. Why the need to specifically point out your detractors as "white trans women"? It strikes me as the same thing people do when they want to make a misogynist claim, but don't want to be called a misogynist, so they talk about "white women" instead of "women".
white trans women are higher in privilege than black cis women are, apparently, so focusing on their race isn't creepy and obsessive at all!
Because it is all identity politics to her and her fellow wokescolds. They believe white trans women are more privileged than back cis women, so under oppression olympics, it means that that PF is right because she is higher up (or is it further down?) on the oppression totem pole.
She definitely has some Dave Chappelle "okay you can advocate against your marginalization, but just never forget black people are the most marginalized and deserve the most attention" bend to her.
Especially when she conflates the Irish and Italians with colonizers
… I’m sorry…
What about “White Trans Women” being “detractors?”
Sure, they will *repeat* Anti-China sentiment, support Ukrainian Nazism, and start repeating White Nationalist talking points (like Vaush did…) soooo… what was it about White Trans Women being detractors again?
Anyone else weirded out by how culty this guy seems to admit to being? "I was a Vaush person and watched him obsessively, until I wasn't"
Tankies love obsessing over figures they perceive as leaders. Literally they are like “wow dude based based look at the old Soviet parades. Comrade Stalin above everyone else, looking down at workers waving at him”. They love hierarchy and are HUGE simps of the state, yet they want a communist stateless society 🤡
@@summerlovinxx well I think they mean in the sense of like, making it out as of they escaped a cult or something, like a confession. Like I watch Vaush a LOT but I don’t claim to know him or think I do through some weird parasocial relationship, I just think what he has to say is interesting and generally makes the case for socialism on a moral framework which I enjoy. Also just his assessment of the I guess mindset of the reactionary, what’s at the core of why they think the way they do, and it’s usually a variety of things, whether it be groomed into a cult almost, to abuse, to just being a sadistic psychopath. I find it all rather interesting and he has convinced me why leftism and socialism is good.
Yeah “until I watched someone say Vaush bad and then I was strictly against Vaush and everything he stands for”
9
To be fair I think a lot of people tend to watch primarily a small group of content creators that will rotate over time. I don’t think that’s particularly cult like, I think humans can just only keep track of so many things at once.
Vaush really surprised that his community pre-watches the content he’s about to watch lmfao
I’m surprised that *the only thing* they all got out of it was “it’s TANKIE shit, it’s really bad”, and then proceeded to agree with Vaush on everything… (as Vaush did literally *everything* his critics criticize him for.
Like skipping, not watching everything, and proving that Debating Vaush is a waste of time.)
@@Kikasitsucry about it beta
"against every socialist project in history"
Like Catalonia, free territory of Ukraine, Zapatistas, student protestors in Hungary, modern Kurdistan... All projects that tankies are notoriously supportive of
Zapatistas condemned the russian invasion of ukraine, i guess there is another reason for tankies to hate them lmao.
@@UmQasaann What the fuck are you talking about? They don’t call themselves anarchists but definitely exist outside of the state and practice self management
Every single successful communist experiment, regardless of how long it lasted, was thanks to anarchists.
No tankie or ML experiment has ever reached communism.
@@UmQasaann well they sure as shit aren't statists so that makes them a hell of a lot more socialist than any soc dems
that's not real socialism, real socialist countries were the ussr, china, democratic kampuchea, the countries of the warsaw pact, and north korea (the only one that still exists)
Being the confused and clueless middle eastern teenager I am who's not all that informed on political issues, I watch hour-long vaush videos just for entertainment's sake (and also improving English, but we don't talk about that) and whenever drama comes up, I absolutely have no idea whose side I'm on and yet somehow I still keep watching and don't really understand why...
oh wait it's the autism hyperfixation nvm
but seriously tho, how and where can I start informing myself more on political issues? it's kinda like I know the very top of the iceberg but not to the extent where I can have the confidence to form my own political beliefs and takes
@@avinatineI really appreciate your humility about forming political opinions. This means you're already on a great track. I would recommend to get as much political news as you deem reasonable and critically evaluate the morality of it and then listen to reasonable commentators speak about it.
im russian and exactly the same happened to me with hasan's streams lmao, if you watch long enough and dont idolise the streamer you will at some point start forming your own opinions
this is entertainment, not politics
Hooooly, a reoccurring character. Not quite The Inseminator, but I'll take it.
Nevermind, chatter misinfo :c
Oh wait, nevermind, he's actually involved lmao. The Grey Cardinal of vaush slander. Very dramatic
Tbh this should be on the main channel. There is a disturbing amount of tankies roaming around and the numbers are sadly growing.
The way you put that makes them sound like bed bugs lol
@@agencymenace1090 There's a difference...?
People in general suck at nuance, so growing up in a post-2008 financial crisis world, many young adults will find themselves accepting left wing ideals uncritically...
To be clear, I'm happy they at least "picked the right side" so-to-speak, but I'm disturbed at the lack of logic some use to arrive at those positions. Some even openly deride the concept of arguing for one's ideas or having a defense for them, because "debate is toxic". Don't get me wrong--interlocutors can be toxic, but debate is a tool.
And my hot take is, being anti-debate makes you anti-science. And like the scientifically illiterate, I worry that these people were simply one charismatic demagogue away from becoming a right-winger or even a fascist; the lack of logical tools means that it is purely by chance that they ended up being a communist and not an outright fascist. (To be clear, I mean this about younger communists today, not communists in general, nor am I referring to the video author persay)
@@arachnidlupus7625 beautiful response
not everyone who calls themself an ML is a "tankie." talk to people more, go outsite.
The only valid argument Anti-Vaush iv ever heard is that he can be a bit mean while debating. Every other Anti-Vaush hit piece turns out like this one.... And how does he sound so sure of himself when the guy feeding him Vaush info SCREAMED AND YELLED LIKE A TODDLER ON STREAM???
Oh, so the extremely well-documented paedophilia and sexual harassment allegations are untrue somehow?
@@nektariosorfanoudakis2270 Well documented? You mean some Crackpipe fever dream someone who did not like him made up?
Ah it's a "how I left the vaush" video lmao
I hope he watches the whole thing because the guy loses his cool by the end and gets so mad 😠
Mad tankie rises 46:38
He ends up sounding just like the joker guy lol
@@Krawnbundungle I gave his video an earnest watch. if I'm wrong about something or being mislead I want to know! But I came away disappointed. He just raged half the time and I counted maybe 2 good criticisms and lots of bad faith. Then I heard a few sussy bits like using !authoritarianism! (state power) to enforce socialism. I don't think I'm socialist but I definitely don't like authoritarianism or a lack of democracy.
@@vitXras stop being cringe be a socialist ya dummy
@@vitXrasBecause he had emotions doesn't detract from a point. Vaush is wrong about many things, short sighted on a few, but doesn't ever think he is. His audience reinforces that idea to the point his words are what dictates who is right and who is wrong.
He's crafted a community friendly to Nazis or alt-right but hostile to actual leftists ideals and POC.
So as a leftist, ya probably wouldn't be interested in being friendly with Nazis. Vaush is the bare minimum of leftist ideal was the point.
These types of leftists are such ivory tower purity testers. "You're not a leftist because of this thing you did when you were an edgy teen" or "you're not a leftist because you engaged with conservatives" or "you're not a leftist because you had an argument with this other leftist"... nobody can possibly be on the left then when you have such strict requirements that the only way to be a real leftist is to live in an isolated bubble where you had nothing to do with anything not-leftist. Then these guys wonder why they can't build a movement that motivates anybody except their own tiny internet niche
And Vaush isn't an ivory tower purity tester for saying "you're not a leftist because you adhere to a different Marxist theory than I do"?
@@ShootingPermit quote?
The Projection is strong with this one.😆
reminds me with radical islamist, fighting each other because a very few differences, accuse one another being infidels
"I`m the only real leftist, that's why I will instagate the popular revolution." 😂
I watched the Fellow Traveler debate from his end and watched him get drunk before going in in real time.
Gotta take the edge off.
Quicksave
Vodka
Whiskey
Bourbon
Vodka
Rum
Quicksave (just in case)
I really do wonder whether this guy was an actual fan or just one of pencil boy’s orbiters pretending.
Hey credit to PF in calling those trans people white and not colonizers. Maybe she just forgot, but I like to believe she's making baby steps towards getting better about the racial essentialism.
Which demographic currently enjoys the fruits of exploitation in the global south?
It certainly isn't black people, Asians, or Indigenous people.
@Uncreative Username Oh God, you're doing the same thing PF does. Please for the love of God, if youre not a troll, please learn that colonialism isn't an ethnic/racial characteristic.
@@ismeal231 When one demographic is currently benefiting from the colonialism and does a "Whataboutism" about other ethnicities that done colonialism 5,000 years ago to excuse their current exploitation.
There's only one demographic that's currently benefiting and the thing is that one demographic has commited mass atrocities that's still being felt to this day.
@@IceAxe1940 Sure, and your suggestion is what? Because the issue was never of saying "we need to get rid of colonial powers". It was always that PF literally said that she wouldn't mind if all white people were kicked from their homes because their ancestors were colonizers.
She justified that by equating colonizers with EVERY individual white person, which, as such, essentializes white people as "the colonizers".
@@radiofloyd2359 If they're actively not trying and when I mean trying I mean actively advocating for Black South Africans more rights, representation in proportion to the population size (95% of the population is black and are impoverished)
Then they're fine, but if you're white in south Africa and you're fine with the continued exploitation of black south Africans then you're complicit and you should leave the country, in no country should 6% of the Population control 90% of all institutional power at all. They're colonizers that's literally what they are it doesn't matter how long they've been there they're still benefiting from a system that was made for them just for them. As I stated before if you're not actively fighting that same system you're no better than the white supremacists who established it.
Imagine watching the joker tankie debate and coming away from it like: "you know what? This guy had some great points. He kinda destroyed Vaush to be honest."
"Joker Tankie" has infinitely better content than Vaush, Vaush content is retarded "if you are slightly to the Left of open Nazism you are a Leftie!!11!"
Agreed. But we're talking about tankie brains here. What do you expect other than rot?
@@OozeSlimepeople who think authoritarian socialism (USSR, Maoist China) are good
"This isn't clipchimping, this is a YTP"
- some tankie
If it was ytp it would be much funnier.
@@stehfreejesseah7893 mabe someone could counvince tall bart, someone who makes YTPs from right wing pundits like Jordan Peterson or Dennis Prager, to make one from the Joker Tankie discourse
@@PancakemonsterFO4 Tall Bart doesn't seem like a crypto-nazi to me.
@@nektariosorfanoudakis2270 based tall bart enjoyer
"SoS" - Vaush
and people still like this Vaush guy?
Honestly with PF the thing I’m stuck on isn’t even her white = colonizer take. That’s dogshit, sure, but to me the thing that bugs me the most that no one seems to bring up is the fact that in one of her response videos she claimed Liberia was a positive example of Black Separatism. I don’t want to get into the history now, but lets just say that as a halfoid black person and a Pan-African advocate, I find this position to be utterly repulsive and disqualifying for anyone who wants to speak on Black/African issues and politics.
Go debate her so I can watch Noah Samsen's head explode when he tries to say you're "half racist."
Wasn't Liberia literally White Americans just putting African-Americans in Africa so that they weren't in America anymore?
I got excited. When I saw "exposed" I was hopeful Vaush's hoggg was released.
There are dick pics floating around Discord.
Vaush exposed his hog before starting youtube
Will never be not amused seeing Vaush watching old clip of his and saying "that's true!" lol
The problem with tankies is very simple, the essentialization of very complex dynamics into very black and white narrativized structures that represent reality about as well as a 4x4 pixel display represents a sunset over a thriving city on the ocean; which also means they tend to fall into the fascist shtick of generalizing groups of people and then believing if only they could get rid of those people everything would be fine, then comes the ends justify the means mentalities and at that point truth is whatever they cherry pick from the complex spectrum of material conditions that is most convenient to whatever point they're trying to make at the time. They are the quintessential expression-as much as they like to project this onto everyone else-of socialism as expressed through the internalized modes of thought of our current capitalist systems, and to an extent even feudal ones. People like this existed when Marx was still alive, and he hated them; hence the "if these people are Marxists, I am not" quote conservatives often like to misrepresent.
Seeing the rise of this trend has made me believe teaching good methodology is way more important than spreading political theory. Because with good methodology I do genuinely believe most will end up leaning in a socialist direction anyways, even if not explicitly, whereas people with bad methodology can grasp onto socialist ideas with both hands, and possibly even anus, and still be diametrically opposed to everything it represents.
Sigh, I had started this whole thing with "it's so simple I don't even have to go into one of my usual comment dissertations...", needless to say I removed that bit.
This is a good explanation!
Most tankies are just fundies or authoritarians who need to channel their intense desire for absolute control into playing Minecraft or The Sims.
@@dinosaysrawr I like both OPs and your description of Tankies.
Who doesn't? I also channeled a lot of my darker impulses into Postal II and Black and White back in the day, too! It's good to have an outlet for that stuff.
I did a segment about this video on my stream. I'm officially ahead of Vaush!!!!
Yo what’s your stream @
Dude it’s like the dc villains had an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and they gather around and talk about all the times Batman’s kicked their ass
The Red Army kicked Hitler's ass, no matter how much America tried to prop him up to achieve his dream of ethnically cleansed USSR. The Red Flag was raised in Reichstag, and the defeated Nazis paraded in Red Square, in front of Stalin, with their banners tossed in the ground (hilariously enough, the Soviet government cleaned the streets after the event, from the Nazi filth). It is the Americanoid cryptofascists that have yet to recover till this day. "We defeated the wrong enemy!11!😭"
@@nektariosorfanoudakis2270 yea and the Soviet Union tried to ally nazi germany and only fought them cuz of Barbarossa so hold the L clown 🤡🤡
Boosh completely exposed 😩
I think the difference with vaush (for me at least) is I don’t treat him how everyone treats their “favorite” streamer/RUclipsr. When I hear vaush I never walk away like “this guy is REALLY pushing this agenda on me” he makes his argument nd I’ll either agree or disagree nd that’s that. But when I see people criticize vaush it’s not just “hey he made these bad points” it’s more like vaush is this disgusting evil person and if you still like him or listen to him then you’re just as bad” 😂 I see vaush as more of a Jon Stewart, it’s just an easier way of hearing a different perspective.
35:08
Whenever I go out harassing other people on Vaushes order, I only use the correct terminology of Vaushite or Vaushist to bring forth the worst version of Fascism...Vaushism
This dude strikes me as the type that wants to believe that "most people are good at heart" and as such is extremely reluctant to call anyone a liar, exemplified by the PF shit. This tracks because when vaush and his community call her out on being a liar, or seeing through fellow travelers excuses, he pearl clutches and goes "how dare you!", reflexively taking their side because they weren't rude rude first. The kind of centrist that doesn't believe anyone can be covertly racist and when you point out obvious dogwhistles or euphemisms they tut tut at you for playing into the rights hand by calling everyone who disagrees with you racist.
7:06 Labour Party candidate Jerry McCorbin apparently
Jeremy Corbyn's glue huffing cousin
I remember Jerry McCorbin well. So much more rotund and jovial than Jeremy.
@@freakishuproar1168 "It's McCorbin' time!"
I watched as much of this as I could stand. It was brutal. For me, of course. Now I can get behind a react to it. I don't understand how he could've ever been a fan. The comments were full of just the most annoying people too. For the most part. Lol.
Also, congrats Vaush, you really lost so much weight. Good on you bro!!! Always inspirational.
👎
@@fighttheevilrobots3417 👍🏾
@@fighttheevilrobots3417 👌
I'm sure he was a "fan" in the way a lot of religious apologists had "an atheist phase".
@@fighttheevilrobots3417 🤳
I will say you've become more graceful and less beligerent over the years, but mostly because you can zing someone so hard their face flies off without having to shit on their face to do it.
Thanks to Vaush I don't hate all american people. Single-handely saves american internet.
if youre a euro your opinion is auto-rejected
Do you mean American or US?
Thanks to Fidel Castro and Che Guevara, and Fred Hampton, etc. I don't hate all American People.😂
**Vaush mentioning HoI4 people talking about recreating culture**
Meanwhile me making a HoI4 mod for my friends' Minecraft server while watching
I love the absolute insane disparity in the HoI community
One half wants to conquer the world as France or Germany
The other half plays Old World Blues and makes 'what if Luxembourg won WW1' mods
both hoi4 and minecraft suck
get the north america divided mod
Every time he said "master debater" I giggled.
My least favorite thing about these anti-vaush/anti-debatebro people is they always assert that vaush viewers simply have less experience with, or knowledge of leftism/politics.. but it's simply not true. I know far more about leftist politics and politics in general than every single one of them, and I don't mean that as a flex, it's just true. I have watched their vids and read their statements. Even FD signifier, who used to be a professor and brands himself as a "theory guy" or whatever, sometimes fails to adequately describe the material he himself cites, and has plenty of gaps in his "theory".. which isn't a bad thing necessarily, it just means superior knowledge of leftist politics isn't what makes people dislike vaush.. it's just false. And the others are frankly still baby leftists and not really worth mentioning.. at best they have a general grasp of one or two broad topics.
And also, yeah? So? The whole project is to reach out to people.
If your movement can only onboard poli-sci majors, your movement is DOA.
Of course, the whole claim is dishonest. They're really just trying to imply that their weird brand of fascism is the only true leftism. That anybody who actually knows about this stuff (rings of "do your own research") would naturally come down on the side of Russian dictators.
But then, if they had good arguments, they wouldn't be tankies.
"My least favorite thing about these anti-vaush/anti-debatebro people is they always assert that vaush viewers simply have less experience with, or knowledge of leftism/politics."
Too bad, because they're objectively correct.
@@nektariosorfanoudakis2270 Enjoy being politically irrelevant forever.
Half of the video is about him not blaming himself for being a former cultist follower of Vaush; the other half if him being a cultist follower of another tankie and white knighting him.
This is like the time I posted on my Facebook "hey so Live Nation is able to be a huge shitty monopoly a lot because American anti-trust law isn't enforced" and this dude comes in with "the problem is capitalism". Which is true, but 3 comments later he was rambling to my friend about CIA interference in the 1950s. Agh
CIA installed a Fascist Dictatorship in my country, and the "Tankies" were the first to go to concentration camp, your point?
The fact that I got the og video and other small vids like it recommended to me before this response was uploaded tells me I should probably do some grass touching 😅
I scrolled past this video the other day, thinking oh great, I wonder if vaush will see this and tear it apart like some sweet bussy, and what a pleasant surprise i was greeted with today!
"Look at any perspective beyond Vaush." I watch Vaush Pit
The argument stfu and actually listen to prof flowers …. Bro I did. Every grueling second.
Even if she's correct you should be able to explain why, it's the same kind of argument as "read theory" but they never point to what theory proves you wrong.
@@InsecureCreator Because its the equivalent of, "I totally have a girlfriend. She goes to another school. You don't know her." People who know a counter-argument state the argument but tankies treat "theory" like Christians treat scripture. They don't know it, they've never read it, but they know it agrees with them.
"I like the concept of object permanence." Ah, and there's the issue. A lot of people have trouble even grasping that concept, you see.
so glad vaush took the bisexual lighting pill, i forgot how shitty the lighting used to be lmao
12:27 I think this argument very interesting. He's arguing that CAPITALIST parties running in Cuban elections. Even if we say capitalist parties will always take control with the help of the U.S. and capital interests, this doesn't actually excuse a one-party-state, like Cuba is. Why aren't there multiple socialist parties, that are independent from each other? And don't tell me "But other parties aren't socialism then and will be taken advantage of by the U.S.", that could happen within factions of a vanguard party.
There is actually a single M-L lead country that actually has multiple parties, which is Nepal (the only country that had a revolution after the Soviet Union fell coincidently). There are corruption problems within the communist parties (there are multiple). But it's far better than China, Vietnam or Cuba on political freedoms and their election system is better than the U.S. one, as more than 2 parties can be represented.
I just wished M-Ls would stop defending 1 party states. There are probably more disagreements with M-L ideology, but being against free elections is the point where I just can't even interact with such people on principal.
nepal isn’t ML anymore the revisionist prachanda took over
fun fact the fbi release something( i think it was a book) that said MLism is the best ideology in the left to be infiltrated by then and that MLism was a way to put the workers against themselfs and the fbi said that anarchist groups was too hard to infiltrate because anarchists read too much
@@holstonmatt Sure lol
@@DGAMINGDE i trying to prove that what i said was true but youtube keep eating replys
jokes on you vaush i didnt watch the shoe video because i made sure to catch it live
Heh, true Vaushites watch both.
Now turn in your badge and gun.
@@rainbowkrampusim not double dipping lol. i liked the stream thats good enough
Hey I was on TV! :3 for those curious this was the comment he censored! This comment he referred to as deranged, right-wing, bad faith, and insulting comments he had ever read on his channel. Tell me what you guys think below!
Before starting I would like to say that I don't think you were EVER a fan, you just wanted to use that as a rhetorical device to help legitimatize your points, but I digress.
1) The "so-called" authoritarian state of Cuba? Just a quick list of the human rights abuses including No Freedom of Speech, No Freedom on the Press, Restrictions on the Freedom of Religion, No Freedom of expression, No Freedom of association, Full State control of the media, Arbitrary Detention and Imprisonment without Due Process and Trials, Travel restrictions, political prisoners, Abuse and Execution of Political Opposition, Citizen Oppression by Coercion, Fear, and Punishment, Forced labor camps and abuse of prisoners, Control access to information over the internet, forced youth labor in agricultural camps, Use of police coercion and brutality. But remember all of that is okay and not actual authoritarianism cause Global Capitalism.
2) Socialism never working electorally in a historical sense means it can never work in the current day or in the future. Honestly why did Lenin even attempt a revolution? I pretty much never happened historically at that point so why did he even bother?
3) Your definition of Marxist-Leninist is just a one-party socialist state where only the party members can vote. The purpose of this state is to transition into stateless and classless communist society. The actual point being made is that various governments use this label as an excuse to act as authoritarians and do whatever they want. That may be the proper definition of the term the actual point being made is that people regularly change its definition to suite whatever end is most needed in the moment. Lastly many anti-imperialists fighting against colonialism use the label in order to get support from the USSR and China and usually abandon socialism all together once they actually taken power. Any action taken by states who call themselves Marxist-Leninist you people will justify because it opposes global capital somehow, no matter how morally abhorrent those actions are or even if they adopt right-wing economic structures.
4) The hypocrisy of saying that Vaush never shows the whole video while you never show a vaush clip that goes further than 10 seconds or just don't provide clips at all. Say what you will about Vaush but he always SHOWS the clip he is making a response to in real time.
5) You source several books out of context without giving page numbers, the author of the book, when it was written, or even the title of the book itself.
6) So the CIA funded a cartoon of animal farm (which changed alot about the original book Orwell wrote.) There for everything Orwell wrote is hereby not valid and not actually working towards socialism.
7) You would bring up professor flowers. The woman who could answer the simple question yes or no question of should genocide and displacement (which is always genocide) should be or should not be used. Professor Flowers probably wouldn't be accused of being in favor of genocide if she just said that genocide was bad regardless of who is doing it. Also, I like how you left out the fact that Vaush had a great conversation with an actual land-back advocate and not the one saying natives should have to right to slaughter white people on mass if they want to.
8) Eristocracy is not a Zionist Ethnonationalist, although I don't know why you even brought her up because the one of the people you are sucking up to (BadEmpanada) said that she should be put in a camp. I don't think it's a very good look to support the guy who said it's okay to put the Jew in a camp. Lastly Eris has regularly criticized the Israeli government to the point where the larger Jewish community rarely comes to her defense, has advocated for large-scale reparations, and the end of the settlements for a two-state solution. In fact, the only reason BadEmpanada labeled her a Zionist is because she refused to support the abolishment of Israel and every Jew currently living in Israel being either killed or being forcibly deported. But keeping running interreference for your antisemite.
9) He was not an American military officer he was a Nato special operations officer whose main role was training of soldiers. You don't know if he actually committed any war crimes in Iraq unless merely being involved in a war you don't agree with means that you are a war criminal now. More importantly the point of that conversation was to talk about the situation in Ukraine and Russia not about Iraq itself, so it was kind of irrelevant.
All in all, a horribly put together video and quite honestly a nice view as to why you Tankies should not be taken seriously in any regard.
shortest leftist comment 🫡
Ima read this after work 🫡
you're objectively wrong about eristocracy--that is, unless she changed her views/rhetoric in the last five or so months since i checked her channel out, but if she hasn't, she's definitely a zionist or at least a sympathizer. i remember trying hard to defend her and watched both of her israel-palestine conflict videos and read through all of her twitter at the time of the controversy and she does a lot of the both-sidesing, muddying the water shit israeli settler defenders use. as well as just straight up lying about the actions of the israeli military. she's also got some cringe takes about crt iirc? like, worse than vaush.
besides that, this was pretty good. i was looking to see if any of this comment was over the line, or even just kind of overly mean and corny that might put him off...but no, if this is the comment and not a cleaned up version, this is completely fine and valid criticism.
what a thin-skinned btchbaby that guy is.
This video ended up in my recommended when I was stoned, and OMG was it a riot
Holy Shit the pencils out of a cup guy completely escaped my memory somehow
Is this a _engagement?_ 💁♂️🦋
quite possibly☝🏻
I love the yellow eyes. It's like Vaush is an adviser the fire nation
this video was really fun to watch
This tankie is so masochistic, he could be screaming “Hurt me, Daddy Vaush!” at the top of his lungs and it wouldn’t be as loud as this video.
Yes, socialism takes time, as should any foundational idea of life and the context one finds themselves in. That said, I've been a socialist since before this guy was born and I find Vaush one of the most effective online voices for socialism. No, he doesn't go into hours long discussions on theory, but those are meaningless anyways. What's important is to push people to the point where they understand that socialism is a concept worth exploring, while pointing out why the alternatives aren't really working. Once people have been propelled to that point they'll do a better job of educating themselves on the details by other means. As for the constant "he haven't done the organizing!" that's bunk. Reaching hundreds of thousands of people who, given most of them are Americans would never otherwise come into contact with politics to the left of liberalism except as a slur is more important than getting 18 people in your town to join your study circle or go on a march.
There are specific points where I disagree with Vaush, of course there are. But in the grand scheme of things that's unimportant, the important thing is him reaching people and moving them ä, however slightly towards a better position.
These people again seems to believe we don't need "normies" with a non-geek understanding of Marxist theory in the movement; that somehow the very small number of existing socialists could execute the revolution and then lead the people right as the thought leaders of the working class. That's a horrible position - it's been said that a society will always be a reflection of the means used to create that society and I think this is very true. A society created by anti-democratic, authoritarian means wil always be anti-democratic and authoritarian. True socialism with it's basis in the people won't come about until a majority of the people wants it, and the rest is prepared to at least accept it, that's what we need to work towards.
I didn't say you have to do that. What did I say right after I said to do reading? I said if you don't want to do reading, to at least 'listen' to people who have done the reading.
Is talking down to successful socialist experiments and tauting socialist ideas that either haven't worked or are pure idealization really the praxis we need to push people towards understanding us? Because the "that's not real socialism" argument doesn't work. And that's what Vaush does.
I've seen many scientists with PHD's use Wikipedia in real time when they are making outreach videos. Denigrating Wikipedia as a source of information really doesn't cut it any more.
not a PhD but honours student and aspiring doctor in physics - wikipedia is one of the most useful and reliable resources for getting a quick but thorough overview of a topic. i know that sciences have less room for bias, but anyone still in the wikipedia = inherently bad train is just misinformed at this point.
it’s not a *source*, it’s a wiki, and an exceptional one. you can’t cite it, but you can read it
@@billyrussell7789 I feel like most people commenting this are either in high school or didn't continue education after high school. Their teacher's told them they couldn't use it and now it's just gospel for them.
@@xb5442 i do get that impression, yeah.
so much of my undergrad has been a process of unlearning shit i was taught in high school for simplicities sake, both on the topics themselves, as well as the process of learning and researching.
it’s the same energy as those “it’s just basic biology” ppl
I don't know why people go to the trouble of making vids like that.
Vaush is a fringe character in a niche online community, he's not important enough to make this sort of thing.
None of these streamers are really.
I look at them as a positive if they're making a good rebuttal to the swathes of right wing content that's continually pumped out in online spaces.
I don't expect them to change the world or be correct on everything, I expect them to provide a counter to right-wing propaganda that, in the past, swamped these spaces.
Even though American left streamers tend to have a vestigial bit of American exceptionalism lol
It's better than no pushback against American rightwingers, right-wing Americans influence more than just Americans, their nonsense seeps into other countries via Facebook and other social media.
It's less about actually being an effective resistance against right-wing influences to tankies and more about policing leftism to be their own holier-than-thou club.
@@zapkido2830 that's sounds about right.
@@zapkido2830 "Policing Leftism", like how you people call a "Tankie" anyone that disagrees with the US state department, even if he is a Social-Democrat (usually Third World and/or First World and "Red"), Trotskyite and Anarchist. Well, if he is a Liberal, or worse, who is against the State Department, too bad for him, he is now Vlad Putin's asset!😂😂😂
I was watching the vaush criticism vid and clicked on a random part of the vid and they started talking about MLs and I was like fuck this and clicked off the vid lol. I cannot be bothered listening to these ppl.
[Did you read theory itensifies]
I’ve seen the video thumbnail over the past few days and ignored it. Figured Vaush would cover it anyway and it was going to be tankie bullshit. I was right.
I’ll admit I’ve been angered by you or disagree at times but I calmed the fuck down. You defend logic and trans people. I love you for that alone.
Here’s a thought…no one is perfect no one should be stanned. Vaush has the occasional hot take that I don’t agree with… but who agrees 100% with anyone? How boring would life be of you did? I love people who dismiss sourced information i.e. Wikipedia. I think that just says it all about the dude complaining.
Unfortunately most people, even relatively sane people, just want someone to repeat their views back to them. Understandable, but unhelpful if you want to learn anything.
That guy do be exposing the Vussy
The state bootlicker sure owned Vaush
"I'll listen to five minutes"
*Looks at video length*
🤔
I thought the talk with Hakim went well, shame to hear he just bottom’d his way through a confrontation like that.
to be fair trying to listen to hakim's voice for more than 1 second is unbearable
They're kinda easy slam dunks for Vaush but I do very much enjoy the Vaush-Tankie content.
I don’t know. Vaush’s eyes look soulless in that thumbnail. That’s proof enough for me that he’s evil… maybe a vampire!
"noone could be this impossibly confident in themselves without being right about everything right?"
This is why theyre a tankie, they see confidence and assume truth.
Man I like Stellaris, I feel personally attacked
Some of us just want to pretend to be the Federation. Granted that's like, the least supported path and everything is easier when you go full totaltarian. But that's a dev issue not a me issue.
@@rainbowkrampus what if I'm just a massive nerd who likes the Borg, Dyson spheres, and Spaceships and want to mash all of them together into one big clusterfuck?
@@danyfighter562 You should try out Universe Sandbox if you like smashing stuff into a clusterfuck.
"Hm, what happens if I drop the Earth into the Sun? Eh, not that exciting. Hm, what happens if I drop the Sun into the Sun?"
Also fun? Blow up the Moon. It never ends well.
Got in an argument in this comment section with the creator, been waiting for this
Has anyone every even seen like a "Voosh fan harassment compilation"? We would know about it if it existed.
There's been 1 person that ever got banned from the community for being a stupid harasser.
And that was DESPITE the fact that the victim (can't remember whether it was Kat Blaque, Noah or PF) had blocked the headmod of Vaush's community.
Damnit Voosh why you gotta be such a heart breaker. This was very personal
What?
@@Krawnbundungle the critic was acting more like the beef was personal. Like he was spurned or something.
Vaush's Joker voice negates all criticism
People that say Wikipedia is bad must not know how to read or scroll since they’re almost always stacked with resources, you click on them and then you read. Its amazing what can happens when your switch you brain on.
its just that the summaries on wikipedia can mischaracterize the sources used ! i love using wiki to find sources for things in a rush but for that reason i personally dont like using it for research alone
I find all this insane. I don’t agree with Vaush on everything, but these people are legitimately just seething. The messed up part is they turn this seethe against their movements instead of their inability to even slightly hold conversation.
Just in case people are wondering, the Kautaky quote on here is the original REAL quote, that DjMuel was wanting to refer too, but instead quoted a bastardized version of it from Conservative writer Richard Mitchell, who then was parroted by George will.
Granted, I wouldn't argue that Lenin truely believed that there is no point in debate, as this argument is Is stated in Chapter 5 of a 8 chapter book, 122 pages, of Lenin debating Krautsky....feels more like Lenin was just butthurt and tried to say "well your not even worth debating" while continuing to debate him.
The USSR was neither United, not Soviet, nor Socialist, nor a republic.
Fascists do like to lie
Republic in the broadest sense just means not a monarchy, so in that way it kinda was.
@@colinhobbs7265 the USSR was a de-facto monarchy for quite a while. And it’s not a republic without democracy or representation. The Soviet Union didn’t have representation because the Kremlin picked who you could vote for, and there was only one name on the ballot, including for local elections.
It’s really hard to call that a republic. It seems like calling a monarchy a republic because the lord, his son, or the mayor (appointed) represented you at court, council, or parliament.
@@UmQasaann well “socialism in one state fucking ruined that”
It was Socialist, if you believe Socialism is when the profit motive doesn't guide production, and the fruits of the Labour of the Working Class goes back to them, more or less. It was definitely all the other things too. Now, how "United" are the "United States of America", and who named the continent "America" anyway?🙄
Sometimes I think my sense of humor has grown more sophisticated with time. Then I hear Vaush tell me about Atlantean shmeep-shmops and I die.
this just shows a voosh glow up
4:10 quickly opening up wikipedia when you have a question is based
nobody knows how to criticize Vaish when he's ridiculously easy to criticize, lmao
Then do it
@@Krawnbundungle Supportive of American intervention, supportive of the West in General, any genuine Communist and Socialist (People from the Global South) should be anti western, the west is a barrier to any Socialist and Communist success.
@@Krawnbundungle Also supportive of NAFTA and nato.
@@Krawnbundungle No genuine Socialist or Communist especially Anarchists would be supportive of NATO, EU, NAFTA, and the West as at any given opportunity all of those institutions I named above would crush such movements, the West is also the current imperialist hegemony that relies on the exploitation of Brown People and the global south.
@@IceAxe1940 "socialist" isn't a badge of honor, btw.
It represents what you believe your positions are. If being a socialist involves being a shitty person, then I'll be the first to call myself not a socialist.
"Water is not h2o in mexico its aqua " - vaush
This is both true and untrue. They would not call it h2o in spanish. But it is still referred to as such in english
Yes. 1 linguistic class would tell you that the concept behind the same word can be different in different languages. This is why Japanese people would call green blue.
Blue and green also have their wavelengths.
However words like water or aqua also have a cultural meaning. For example a bottle that contains 99% water and 1 % poison would be called a bottle of poison and not a bottle of water even after the most common molecule would be water.
The reason why I think professor flowers is genocidal is because I DID listen to her .... and she straight up said she was and still is genocidal.
Vaush, one minute into an hour-long video: "I'll listen to five minutes."
The amount of times this person alludes to Vaush being wrong on a subject but never pointing out why, and then moving on to their next point is infuriating and hilarious
Yeah so exactly what vaush does