16 1/2 Hours on a Page, Midnight to Midnight! How and Why it’s Legal!
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- There’s much argument about counting hours and the Work Diary in general. Here I show you how 16 1/2 hours is possible and legal midnight to midnight when running on Basic Fatigue Management (BFM).
The most important thing to know is that your 24hr period is NOT midnight to midnight UNLESS you START at midnight.
In this demonstration, the first 24hr period starts at 7pm and overlaps the next 24hr period that starts at 3:30pm the following day. A new 24hr period DOES NOT reset the previous one, meaning you must continue counting hours forward until that period finishes. This example shows two 24hr periods, one 7pm-7pm and the next overlaps, starting 3:30pm-3:30pm. The first has work time of 12 1/4 hrs only and the second has 13hrs. On BFM you are allowed up to 14hrs in a 24hr period. There are no breaches 6hrs in 6 1/4, 8 1/2hrs in 9 or 11hrs in 12… However midnight to midnight (which is not OUR 24hr period) shows 16 1/2hrs. This is because we count forward from the relevant rest breaks, not backward as it was done in years gone by.
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Locals cops and even the counties and the state need to really learn the log book rules. I am from the states, and not all of them know them here either.
It's dumb the government still forcing us to sleep when we ain't tired. And I think you got lucky due to the load being late. 👍🏻
Well said Rob…..
A touch different from mine
Daily Driving and On-duty Time
12 (1) No motor carrier shall request, require or allow a driver to drive and no driver shall drive after the driver has accumulated 13 hours of driving time in a day.
(2) No motor carrier shall request, require or allow a driver to drive and no driver shall drive after the driver has accumulated 14 hours of on-duty time in a day.
Canada DOT
Brilliant
love the video rob and i find all your log book videos very interesting when i look at this video from my understanding of the log book everything is fine as you have said also but i thought id see what log book checker has so say and it came up on tuesday a breach went over by 15m 915-930 pm and over 2 hrs 15m from 945-midnight with a total 2.5 hrs breach for the day and then on Wednesday it says theres a 30m breach between 1245-445am but im not a fan of logbook checker i only have it as the company i work for says we have to have it but i refuse to use it i just have the app on the phone to keep them happy and so it looks like im using it
keep up the videos mate love all the great content you put out
G’day Michael. I don’t use log book checker but I’m told it has two different ways of counting hours.
Remember the 24hr period starts at 7pm Monday and concludes at 7pm Tuesday. The second 24hr period starts 3:30pm Tuesday so by 9:15pm I’ve only entered 5 3/4hrs in that 24hr period, and a total of 8 1/4hrs by midnight Tuesday night. By 4:45am Wednesday, I’ve still only entered 12 1/4hrs in that 24hr period.
The only way it could show the breaches you’ve mentioned is if the 24hr period started midnight Tuesday morning which it didn’t.
7pm Monday-7pm Tuesday and 3:30pm Tuesday- 3:30pm Wednesday are the two 24hr periods we are working in. Midnight to midnight is only considered a 24 hr period if you start at Midnight after a relevant major break (7hrs on BFM solo).
Whilst I don't disagree with what you've said, I do have a couple of observations, first being that whilst the instructions in the book tell the driver to count as you have, the table that sets out the rules (as well as the actual NHVL legislation) states: "in ANY period of".... and lets be real, if law enforcement is pissed off enough with you, you're going to have a very difficult time proving that from midnight to midnight is NOT a 24 hour period.
Second observation is more of a question, what exactly where you carting on your example pages? Glider motors maybe? those are some impressive average speeds. especially Marulan to Thumuster, with peak hour from about Narellan to at least Gosford.
Page 21 and 22 in the front of the work diary cover the “in any…” question and explain how to count hours and also where to count from regarding rest breaks,
And as for the speed of travel, It was a reasonably light single trailer so holding road speed up hills was no problem.
That's why the books are so confusing.
@@freesbrisbane don't want to argue but I'm pretty sure 21 and 22 address a "relevant" 24 hour period (to the particular driver) and yes, when you're only concerned about those, what you've said is 100% correct. However that was not the point I was trying to make, my point was, how do you convince a Magistrate that the work diary is correct and that midnight to midnight is NOT 24 hours.
The work dairy says "ANY" and the legislation says "ANY". Most police officers don't know how to count it properly, I'd wager quite a few NHVR officers can't eIther, so how and why should we expect a Magistrate will be able to work it out?
The truth is, the logbook itself is wrong and contradicts itself and the legislation. A driver can do everything as instructed and still end up in court, fined or lose their license and as a result, their livelihood.
Anyway, Just my thoughts.
@@samp1533I agree, 1 would think that it is a reasonable conclusion to draw, that all rules must be adhered to. "Any period of 24hrs" I can't get around that rule.
@@timmycarey1958 He's counting as the work diary says we should, but that won't change the ignorance of those charged with policing the rules and in this day and age, it's not about them proving you're guilty, its unfortunately about you proving you're innocent. look at the reasonable steps defence, the onus is on you to prove you took all possible reasonable steps to prevent the violation, if they can come up with something you could have done, you're gone, OUR ignorance is not acceptable but theirs certainly is.
So, whilst you can do what he says in the video, it's my belief that it's only a matter of time before you find yourself with some explaining to do to people who probably think they're better and smarter than you are and who probably don't want to hear what you have to say.
Again, just my thoughts.
I think it's 'quaint' the way you Aussies are still using paper logs, while the entire rest of the 'civilized world' has moved on to electronic logs. Today, it's only Australia and 'the developing world' that still use paper logs....
Back 35 years ago, I played fast-and-loose with the paper logs we used to use in the US. My geographical area used to take me across the border into Canada almost daily, and I got to know the intricacies of both the US hours-of-service rules as well as those of Canada. There were times which I would be legal in the US, but not Canada, and vice-versa. Many times I changed my route to cross the border at different locales just to keep within the graces of whichever country I was driving in.
I think it's "quaint" Americans don't have free healthcare. I thinks it's "quaint you don't have mandated holiday/sick/parental leave. I think its "quaint" you have a minimum wage of $7.50. I think it's "quaint" you have to worry about being gunned down in the street.
The "civilized world" in Australia is much more civilized than America buddy.
I thought I recalled a whole load of protests from US drivers when Elogs became mandatory. I like to think of our paper logbooks as the last bastion of freedom in the world.
@@freesbrisbane Actually, what it DID was make it so that companies could not expect their drivers to run illegal. Put the 'bad guys' out of business, and improved road safety by quite a bit. Also, it made it so the dumb drivers always knew if they could or couldn't drive, so THEY ended up getting fewer tickets. All that paper logs do is encourage drivers to find ways to cheat. I used to have a dispatcher who expected me to drive 4000 miles a week, SOLO!
@@alexclement7221 our fines for cheating the book are so high (tens of thousands of dollars) the days of dodging the book are pretty well behind us now. Also if a company has drivers coming to the attention of authorities they are audited and fined as well, if they can’t prove there are doing everything possible to stop their drivers from exceeding their hours. They’re hit hard with fines in the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
We’re all Fine here… fine, fine, fine… $$$$$$
On top of that we have a network of cameras that cross reference where your are and how long it took between points… so it’s very hard to flagrantly break the law with the book and the days of companies pushing their drivers beyond the law are over. The stakes are too high.
There seriously needs to be a course or something you can do for a story book. It's very easy and expensive to get caught out when you think you are 100% doing the
right thing because you interpret the rules differently to the person who wrote them
training.gov.au/Training/Details/TLIE3028
I had to have a chuckle when I saw T LIE As the course preface…
Hahaha, very fitting.
Wrong
Better tell NHVR then hey? I’ve literally sat in a room with one third of the current serving NHVR Safety and Compliance Officers and high level staff discussing this exact video.