It's easy to tell if a guy knows what he's talking about. If he can talk into the camera, with a clear voice, and maintain a constant flow of information that is sequential and pertinent to the topic, without the use of references, notes, pauses to think, ums, ahs, ohs, then the guy knows what he's talking about. It's clear Paul is operating on the master level, well beyond expert. I'll tell you boys the truth. I would listen to any person about any topic if they were to communicate like Paul does. What a joy to watch! .....and LEARN!
Thanks Paul for another great video. We can't get enough! We love the attention to detail and the way you rationalize what you feel is the correct approach to solving problems. Long Live Manual Gearboxes!
This was why I removed this plate for my new old stock saginaw cluster gear. My NOS cluster gear sitting in a box for years in California had this anti rattle plate and this was the first video I used for reference. Thank you Paul
Thanks for these videos, Paul, they are invaluable. I noticed on my M20 transmission, the backlash plate caused wear on the main input gear - another reason to remove it.
i liked this video all your videos are great i can,t get enough of your stuff ,,i am in the middle of a complete build a little over half way ordering parts ,each week been ordering more parts about 2 weeks i should have enough parts to start assembly all new super cases and new guts , have 455 olds motor that i have in a 83 f100 short bed had a 63 vett. muncie spun the input bearing so saving that trans. and building better one so have your book and been watching your videos while i wait for parts . i am a machinist ,been doing it for more than 40 years and motor head on the side,my dad was a mechanic his whole life ,so grew up with a wrench in my hand ,,,,so keep doing what you do ...
Smart transmission rebuilder-- I am a former gear head as I had 3 1st gen. Camaro's including a 67 RS Camaro, 427/425 with 456 gears and a 4 speed--The only problem I really had with any Muncie was the front bearing making noise but then the trans. were under 10 years old. You sure seem to keep busy and your knowledge and adapting new parts to old is is amazing as I have seen in some other vids
Thorough outstanding and professional! (as usual) My friend and I are cranking the 57 for the first time. We both will see how well I paid attention to your video's, and how well the 6 to 8, Saginaw 3 speed overhaul/conversion and the Hurst floor shifter mod goes. These past 3 years of 57 Chevy and your video's close this project this week. I'll let you know the results. Thanks for what you do!!
Very informative, thanks!. High compression and high duration camshafts create powerful impulses at idle creating neutral rattle. A poorly tuned motor can create impulses causing neutral rattle. Have a BMW RT motorcycle with a 5 speed which has backlash rattle in neutral. I just keep the clutch engaged when I don't feel like hearing it.
Have one of those too. I try not to stay in neutral too long when I drive. Love your channel. One of these days Ill need some shift forks tigged, also a gear face. I'll shoot you an email...
i like your videos it makes me think back when i was young and working on my 69 s/s Camaro M21 Munice but with the motor auto repair manual books it had step by step on how to rebuild a 4 in it !!! thanks for the video
Great video Paul. I remember those plates and figured it was due to the irregular tolerances in the bores of the case = input and cluster gear shafts= too much backlash. I think they had a tolerance problem. Also the gear teeth are not making maximum contact and could minimize the strength of the gears. Just my opinion.
LearningZone i eliminate the plate even if they are not because eventually they are a potential hazard. The Chrysler plates never get looose and they are necessary since gear rattle will be evident.
I always thought that anti-rattle plate was an oil slinger for the main input shaft bearing. I wish I knew this 20 years ago when I rebuilt my M20!!! I wonder what condition my rivets are in. Thanks for showing us what that plate does.
I’ve tried this and there was one pin that no matter how hard I tapped it, it wouldn’t come out. The others went easy. It looked like it was almost apart of the gear. The punch would just smush the end more but not dislodge it. I ended up leaving it in the gear.
my truck (00 rwd ranger XLT 5speed) makes that noise only in fifth gear. I have to apply very light and gradual pressure on the gas pedal to avoid it. you'd expect it at low speed and high gear but I can be on the freeway at 60mph and if I step off the gas and step on again I get what I deem significant backlash in the diff in fifth gear. What's a viable solution?
This is perhaps the most amazing channel I've come across. Thank you sir. Awesome content. I just have a question instead of a anti backlash plate, would a anti backlash gear with spring arrangement fair better?
The parts manual calls it an anti backlash plate. Years ago you could replace the plate. The gear is an assembly. I am removing the plate. GM never listed the gear as you mention. What is the reason for the semantics?
@@GearBoxVideo well sir, I was researching a lot and this was something new I'd seen. I guess I have to do a lot of research. This insight has given me great info. Thanks again for the reply. Appreciate it
Actually .. I am looking for a gearbox, without backlash, for robotics. As far as I found out, harmonic drives do a pretty good job. I was wondering, if there is a cheaper solution.
my 1966 M20 was rebuilt years b4 I bought the car. don't suppose there's anyway to know if the anti-backlash plate and rivets were removed w/o dropping out the transmission and opening 'er up?
my m-20 had that on it, i removed it and it runs quiet ....i am doing a Saginaw right now and i pulled the plate without touching the rivets....the rivets are tight in the counter gear should i remove the rivets just to be safe ??
big cal guns I've seen people leave the remains in the gear. I would peen the ends of the rivet just to lock it in. With nothing working on them it should not be a problem.
the rivets in my m-20 was getting loose and moving around pretty good. I'm glad i caught in time....by the looks of the one you showed its complete disaster. thanks for the info greatly appreciated.
on ordering parts from this place that i have been getting parts from they are in sc gear opt.have been italy or korea other stuff auto gear and age when you go on the internet you know how it is lots of opt.
stanzomanny No. But the question is why? Could be a flywheel issue. Dual mass flywheels are used to dampen harmonics and fail. The clutch hub can also fail.
thanks for the respond, I have no harmonic balancer, just a pully in front, no dual mass flywheel and i think my timing may be a little advanced, I'm going to install a harmonic balancer and look into the timing to see if i can reduce the gear rattle. I was worried about it damaging gears, looked all over the interwebs for answers but coundnt find any.
You should have a balancer, but depending on how the engine is balanced ( internal vs external ) both flywheel and balancer are ether going to be neutral or counterweighted. You need to find the balance specs of your engine.
Question under the large reverse gear is two drilled indents in the shaft one has a ring clip i believe set inside of it, other side no ring clip is this to help keep the gear from rattling ?? PS I am not very savvy with email stuff lol.
Is the 10 tooth m21 imput shaft and the 26 tooth m21 shaft the same other than the tooth count for the clutch plate. I would like to put the 26 tooth in my transmission it can originally with the 10 tooth.
ok because I have my transfer case bearings done at a local transmission shop and they couldn't get the output seal to actually seal, they went threw 5 seals before they got the trick..at 50$ a seal I was just wondering if its ever happened to you.
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It's easy to tell if a guy knows what he's talking about.
If he can talk into the camera, with a clear voice, and maintain a constant flow of information that is sequential and pertinent to the topic, without the use of references, notes, pauses to think, ums, ahs, ohs,
then the guy knows what he's talking about.
It's clear Paul is operating on the master level, well beyond expert. I'll tell you boys the truth. I would listen to any person about any topic if they were to communicate like Paul does.
What a joy to watch! .....and LEARN!
Thank you.
Thanks Paul for another great video. We can't get enough! We love the attention to detail and the way you rationalize what you feel is the correct approach to solving problems. Long Live Manual Gearboxes!
Great info. I've always heard that they were removed as not needed. Thx for the explanation as to why they may cause issues if left in during rebuild!
I really like these videos it's cool to see the way everything goes together
thank you for the time spent making them
Your explanations are so concise and coherent that even a neophyte can understand.
Thanks a bunch. Thanks for watching
Cant believe I missed this video, Thanks Paul.
This was why I removed this plate for my new old stock saginaw cluster gear. My NOS cluster gear sitting in a box for years in California had this anti rattle plate and this was the first video I used for reference. Thank you Paul
Paul, your a great teacher. Great tips.
The videos are great. A picture is worth 1,000 words.
Thanks very much.
Thanks for these videos, Paul, they are invaluable. I noticed on my M20 transmission, the backlash plate caused wear on the main input gear - another reason to remove it.
Thanks for another great and very informative video Paul. I really appreciate the time that you invest in these videos for the benefit of us all.
Thanks for watching
Good information. Thanks Paul. Isuzu uses a similar design on one of their cam gears.
i liked this video all your videos are great i can,t get enough of your stuff ,,i am in the middle of a complete build a little over half way ordering parts ,each week been ordering more parts about 2 weeks i should have enough parts to start assembly all new super cases and new guts , have 455 olds motor that i have in a 83 f100 short bed had a 63 vett. muncie spun the input bearing so saving that trans. and building better one so have your book and been watching your videos while i wait for parts . i am a machinist ,been doing it for more than 40 years and motor head on the side,my dad was a mechanic his whole life ,so grew up with a wrench in my hand ,,,,so keep doing what you do ...
again I am not associated with The Gearbox
Another Master class.
excellent video as always, you have the ability to make it look so easy
Thank you very much!
Smart transmission rebuilder-- I am a former gear head as I had 3 1st gen. Camaro's including a 67 RS Camaro, 427/425 with 456 gears and a 4 speed--The only problem I really had with any Muncie was the front bearing making noise but then the trans. were under 10 years old. You sure seem to keep busy and your knowledge and adapting new parts to old is is amazing as I have seen in some other vids
Thanks for watching.
great explanation. thanks
Thorough outstanding and professional! (as usual) My friend and I are cranking the 57 for the first time. We both will see how well I paid attention to your video's, and how well the 6 to 8, Saginaw 3 speed overhaul/conversion and the Hurst floor shifter mod goes. These past 3 years of 57 Chevy and your video's close this project this week. I'll let you know the results. Thanks for what you do!!
Please keep me posted and post pic of the project on my Facebook page. The link is www.transmissionbook.com
Thanks for the tip, Paul, i will see if my Muncie M20 has that plate in it when i get it rebuilt.
Great video, as usual!
paul, excellent job as always. i'm going to subscribe. sharing your years of experience is appreciated.
Thank you for your support.
Paul,
Love your videos, man.
Thanks
Kind regards.
Very interesting subject and great information, thanks much!
Thanks for watching
Thank you good sir you deserve more views...keep it up!!!❤
Thank you too!
Very informative, thanks!. High compression and high duration camshafts create powerful impulses at idle creating neutral rattle. A poorly tuned motor can create impulses causing neutral rattle. Have a BMW RT motorcycle with a 5 speed which has backlash rattle in neutral. I just keep the clutch engaged when I don't feel like hearing it.
Jason Burt light alloy flywheels are typically the main cause
Have one of those too. I try not to stay in neutral too long when I drive. Love your channel. One of these days Ill need some shift forks tigged, also a gear face. I'll shoot you an email...
Valuable info. Thank you man.
Thanks for the awesome tip!
Always wondered what the heck those were for on my M20 but wondered why it wasn't on my M22 that I built. Good vid Paul.
Thank you
i like your videos it makes me think back when i was young and working on my 69 s/s Camaro M21 Munice but with the motor auto repair manual books it had step by step on how to rebuild a 4 in it !!! thanks for the video
Thank you.
I love your videos man. I've become a real fan of your videos.
ZeaMoore4 thanks so much for watching!
Great video Paul. I remember those plates and figured it was due to the irregular tolerances in the bores of the case = input and cluster gear shafts= too much backlash. I think they had a tolerance problem. Also the gear teeth are not making maximum contact and could minimize the strength of the gears. Just my opinion.
Very nice tip - I thank you!
Your videos are fucking incredible. Thank you for taking your time to do this.
Thanks a bunch
Excellent explanation and details. So meaning to say you are just eliminating the plate from the transmission when the rivets are worn out?
LearningZone, sounds more like he removes them when he sees them.
LearningZone i eliminate the plate even if they are not because eventually they are a potential hazard. The Chrysler plates never get looose and they are necessary since gear rattle will be evident.
I always thought that anti-rattle plate was an oil slinger for the main input shaft bearing. I wish I knew this 20 years ago when I rebuilt my M20!!! I wonder what condition my rivets are in. Thanks for showing us what that plate does.
Glad you took the time to watch this video. Thank you
I’ve tried this and there was one pin that no matter how hard I tapped it, it wouldn’t come out. The others went easy. It looked like it was almost apart of the gear. The punch would just smush the end more but not dislodge it. I ended up leaving it in the gear.
thanks
my truck (00 rwd ranger XLT 5speed) makes that noise only in fifth gear. I have to apply very light and gradual pressure on the gas pedal to avoid it. you'd expect it at low speed and high gear but I can be on the freeway at 60mph and if I step off the gas and step on again I get what I deem significant backlash in the diff in fifth gear. What's a viable solution?
This is perhaps the most amazing channel I've come across. Thank you sir. Awesome content.
I just have a question instead of a anti backlash plate, would a anti backlash gear with spring arrangement fair better?
The parts manual calls it an anti backlash plate. Years ago you could replace the plate. The gear is an assembly. I am removing the plate. GM never listed the gear as you mention. What is the reason for the semantics?
@@GearBoxVideo well sir, I was researching a lot and this was something new I'd seen. I guess I have to do a lot of research. This insight has given me great info. Thanks again for the reply. Appreciate it
Interesting video thanks
Thanks for watching
Actually .. I am looking for a gearbox, without backlash, for robotics.
As far as I found out, harmonic drives do a pretty good job.
I was wondering, if there is a cheaper solution.
Hi Paul. Thanks for another excellent video.
With the plate and rivets removed, do you need to increase the thickness of any thrust washers?
t5montecarlo No, the plate doesn't ride or attach to any thrust surface.
my 1966 M20 was rebuilt years b4 I bought the car. don't suppose there's anyway to know if the anti-backlash plate and rivets were removed w/o dropping out the transmission and opening 'er up?
Not possible
@@GearBoxVideo Thanks
my m-20 had that on it, i removed it and it runs quiet ....i am doing a Saginaw right now and i pulled the plate without touching the rivets....the rivets are tight in the counter gear should i remove the rivets just to be safe ??
big cal guns I've seen people leave the remains in the gear. I would peen the ends of the rivet just to lock it in. With nothing working on them it should not be a problem.
the rivets in my m-20 was getting loose and moving around pretty good. I'm glad i caught in time....by the looks of the one you showed its complete disaster. thanks for the info greatly appreciated.
Does the extra space left after removal pose any problem with the gear moving front to rear in the case? if so how do you deal with it?
Mike Bickle The plate doesn't go over the thrust surface so nothing changes
on ordering parts from this place that i have been getting parts from they are in sc gear opt.have been italy or korea other stuff auto gear and age when you go on the internet you know how it is lots of opt.
I don't know what your abbreviations mean
I have a question about the gear rattle. I have a cummins 4bt with a zf5 and i have rattle, a lot of rattle. ...Does this rattle damage the gears??
stanzomanny No. But the question is why? Could be a flywheel issue. Dual mass flywheels are used to dampen harmonics and fail. The clutch hub can also fail.
thanks for the respond, I have no harmonic balancer, just a pully in front, no dual mass flywheel and i think my timing may be a little advanced, I'm going to install a harmonic balancer and look into the timing to see if i can reduce the gear rattle. I was worried about it damaging gears, looked all over the interwebs for answers but coundnt find any.
You should have a balancer, but depending on how the engine is balanced ( internal vs external ) both flywheel and balancer are ether going to be neutral or counterweighted. You need to find the balance specs of your engine.
Question under the large reverse gear is two drilled indents in the shaft one has a ring clip i believe set inside of it, other side no ring clip is this to help keep the gear from rattling ?? PS I am not very savvy with email stuff lol.
Anti rattle springs. One is missing. I remove them because they break and sometimes get lodged in the gear causing the trans to get stuck in reverse.
Thank you very much for your reply.
Is the 10 tooth m21 imput shaft and the 26 tooth m21 shaft the same other than the tooth count for the clutch plate. I would like to put the 26 tooth in my transmission it can originally with the 10 tooth.
You mean spline count. Yes the only difference is the spline
I was wondering if you've had experience with mercedes transmissions, specificly the 722.9, 7 speed?
ltwargssf R not really
ok because I have my transfer case bearings done at a local transmission shop and they couldn't get the output seal to actually seal, they went threw 5 seals before they got the trick..at 50$ a seal I was just wondering if its ever happened to you.
nicholas cage
only the M20 has it?
For the Muncie, the late M20, but some Saganaw transmissions as well as Chrysler units have them as well.
:-)