Electric motors on Hang gliders; a love story - 4k
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- Опубликовано: 18 окт 2024
- A Unique new way to power a hang-gliders with minimal interference of normal flight characteristics and handling, as well as much improved safety during ground operations.
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For more details of the of the motors, please see the description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel.
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The early hang glider power units in the late 70s (like the Soarmaster) were fitted to the frame. However if you get into a negative g situation (straps go loose, so the pilot no longer has pitch control) then the high thrust line will push the glider over into a tumble. It's much safer to attach the power unit to the hanging mass, i.e the pilot. This is why they stopped making them like this and Mosquito, Wasp, Doodlebug etc, as well as every weight shift microlight trike always has the thrust on the pilot (or trike), not on the wing. The e-help is a great modern example of an electric power unit on the pilot.
With low amounts of thrust and smooth coastal air then you'll get away with this like they did in the late 70s, but if you get tempted to start putting more thrust on it or flying it in spicier air then it could get dangerous.
We are aware of these old dangerous configurations with heavy powerful motors and we have tried many different configurations over many years, for example: one motor on the nose, two motors either side of the pilot, etc. but we were thrilled when we tried the motor at the current position because for the first time we found no change in pitch control, on a low performance HG, once flying. This is due to the line of thrust being opposite to the centre of drag for low performance hang gliders (look at the billow, dihedral, and angle of attack, at trim, for low performance hang gliders). Also, these units are generally very low power and just extend to abilities of a low performance hang glider to act more like a high performance hang glider in so far as its ability to jump from hill to hill along the coast, for example and also to fly in conditions that are too light for normal flight. Also, the position of the prop is very safe and the static balance is perfect. We love them and have been using them for many years now.
@@robertberndes7878 as long as you're aware then I agree that sounds reasonable. It's just that it's always tempting to add bigger motors and more power and start using in more situations! At some point that would become dangerous. Although with electric there is the possibility to have a system using accelerometers to automatically kill the power if the wing becomes unloaded, which wasn't an option for those early pioneers. Although if you start to rely on that as a safety critical feature then it would need a really high level of reliability.
@@robertberndes7878 I can see this useful in situations to get launched in areas where access to a launch has been lost , or due to terrain that makes difficulty launching.
Simply launching on the beach and flying up to the lift, might be preferable to a multi person wire launch on a precarious cliff edge.
I was skeptical about the high thrust line , but given low power applications , and using in smooth marine air, I think it could be used safely.
there could be a easy solutions to fix this conundrum. I have several ideas that could revolutionize hanggliding. I'm trying to contact different manufacturers for a collab.
you could simply put a motor on each side strut (instead of side wires). Side struts instead of side wires should be generalized in free flight hanggliding by now. The philosophical design approach to current HG is not the correct one. Sure light weight is important, but it needs to be put in context of other considerations.
I can’t stand being outside without sunglasses, and wear really well fitting safety glasses when I’m on my motorcycle to keep the wind out of my eyes. How you are out there flying around in the bright sky, wind blasting in your face and no eye protection baffles me. Love the concept though! I am a remote control pilot and love slope soaring , I have a few powered gliders too.
BEEN FLYING RC OFF THE BEACH FOR 40 YEARS! SMOOTH AIR WHEN OFF THE OCEAN OR DOWN THE BEACH!, STARTING FLYING ELECTRIC IN 1988! THANKS FOR SHARING. HAD THREE HANG GLIDERS AND NEVER FLEW THEM. MY LOSS.
Excellent, guys! I built a working hang glider when I was going to tech school in Phoenix, AZ back in '72. Bedsheets, bamboo carpet poles, and nylon twine. Drew it on a napkin and built it once I had the materials. It got me off the ground for about a minute before a gust told it to fold on me. School got busier about then and I never did go back to it. Fond memories seeing you fly them so easily. xox Curious of the cost nowadays, especially for a powered version.
That's great mate. You are a legend! It's great when people bring their dreams to life.
@@robertberndes7878 did the motor position pitch the glider downwards??
The mosquito motor kit puts the motor next to the feet to avoid pitching the glider but i want to know if you had any problems with this position of the motor
Did the same thing, in the same place, at about the same time! Got scrap bamboo from carpet shops, plastic sheet and reinforced strapping tape. Drove over towards Tempe and flew it off those little buttes just north of the Salt River. Our kite lasted for about one afternoon of ground skimming. Almost set my butt down on a barrel cactus. Latter I bought a old style "Lark" rogallo wing for about $500 and would drive up to fly the cinder cones east of Flag. God, even today's lowest-performance gliders would have been freakin' amazing back then!
you guys look like you are straight out of the 70's, when i used to fly....around Sydney.
Oldies but goodies :)
Check out new, more specific, details about the motors, in the description of our other video "Why do girls prefer Hang-glider pilots - 4k" 😀
Very cool.
You'll want a pusher prop at your feet. So the harness is like a power pod.
Looks awesome- tons of fun and locally too, great videos!
This brought back some memories, I learned to fly in WA back in the early 90's. Good times.
We truly couldn't care any less.. this isn't about when you started
u guys make it look so easy
We love it :)
Very Kool Rob, love the latest design nice video mate👍
Brilliant idea
Thought for second you couldn't get back up wind. I fly wills wing Falcon 4 , been trying to figure out a way to do this. Off the king post... brilliant.
I used to fly a Wasp Falcon 4 in '79 :) I'm guessing yours is a newer version?
I've flown in my dreams for years. But you guys fly in the daylight! Looks fun.
I can't suggest paragliding strongly enough! I want to fly hang gliders too one day, but I my paraglider harness serves double duty as a backpack for the wing, so I just keep the whole thing in the trunk of my car and fly after work! Seagulls are totally fine sharing the air with me over the ocean cliffs. It's the least expensive form of aviation! Just look up a school and get good training. I dreamed of flying paragliders for 20 years before I finally did it, and it's better than I imagined. I want everyone to fly!
Lucid dreaming unaided gliding FTW!
Love the Aussie hip-hop
🍻🔥 mate
for more thrust, fix a tapered duct on the upright around the propelers
There is so much potential on this, it's insane! Install a self stick solar film on the back of the Hangglider and you have a fully solar powered Glider. Look at the SunSeeker solar sail plane, much heavier, smaller square meter, still works. I want it so bad.
Cool idea :)
Watts from solar panel on wings? One would need very large wings, like 10,000 ft^2.
@@JT-cf7dq1m2 will bring about 20W average. With direct sun lot more. Foils bring up to 10%. How much area does a glider have? Lets say 7m2.
Thats about 140W. Not much but the battery wont dry up so fast.
If the solar foil doesnt bring a negative effect to areodynamics that idea could work.
Over time the material will be better. Maybe in 5-10years it will be practical, maybe sooner maybe even today.
Who will find out and make a cool youtube video about it?
One of the best things about gliding? The QUIET.
Getting away from all the noise, from traffic, neighbours, HP ringtones and crap labelled as music
I agree with Avian's comment below - this needs some kind of cutoff so that if the AoA goes below the horizontal it cuts out no matter what.
Food for thought...
Very creative design.
Thanks a lot
Pretty unique
Maybe a metal panel under propeller rotation could be good to prevent problems in case of prop failures . Probably that brushless has low rpm but those props are big enough to penetrate the wing
Yeah, we like the idea of a Kevlar patch glued to the top of the sail. Easy enough to do.
That wa incredible...
God job...
Well done...
where do you store the batteries and what's the specs for the batteries, motor and propeller?
In a pouch on the chest or for the big motor a safety break away board mounted on the outside of the chest
Mi sono iscritto! Ciao from Sardinia! 😁👋👋👋
very nice
I think it requires about a 12hp motor which gives about the 19kg of the first example to float about forever. What is important is that the distance from the hangpoint where all the tubes meet is as small as possible. It is at this point where crossbars keel hangpoint meet that all the aerodynamics are worked out by the glider and you keep flying or not. You are putting 100kg of weight about 2 meters hanging below so 20kg pushing 50cm above is probably just about ok. The glider dose not care where the push comes from it is up to us to keep this safe so it does not prevent your fundamental control skills being overwhelmed by the motor.
I have a paramotor which gives up to 70Kg thrust but with a Propellor whose center is 50cm from my back and it works fine. Before I instructed on powered trikes with maybe 100kg thrust but then you have a fixed distace bar seperating you from the hangpoint and everything has now changed from hangliding to an aeroplane david
Thanks David, That's a nice description of forces and distances
I think the other thing we have discovered is that the motor should be situated close to the centre of DRAG. The kingpost mount seems to be pretty close to that.
any thoughts about how this might be used along with a ballistic parachute? Very cool project, and the filming was great. I miss WA coastline.
Should be no problem. Leaves the parachute pouch free for batteries too.
exceptional.
Have you experimented w/ mounting positions and thrust direction? I'm thinking a reversed (pusher) thrust mounted on the keel boom might be a better position. You seem to have experienced no control issues. Electric propulsion is certainly the future of motive power, we just need battery tech to up its game and we could be flying quietly into said future.
Hi,
I'm very light 56kg and I fly a Finsterwalder packable HG. This little motor could easily lift me up. I'm interested in buying please.
Best wishes
Lauren
Any data how much it costs to fly for example 100 kms? Regarding electricity to charge battery? It would be awesome to get to work in such thing, lol
Very cool!
I am so interested in this. When will this be more widely available.?
We are thinking about it.... :)
For a more detailed description of the motors please see the description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel.
Please write us on: machine105@proton.me
if you are interested in making/buying a motor.
So my take away.
The 19kg is maginal for self launch on flat.
The others seem like a get out jail free card if get to far from a safe landing area.
Winch stuff is pretty cool, either they overloading the winch, or not getting enough AOA on launch for a big climb out.
Yeah, that's pretty accurate although we still have to test the 19lb again we don't know if we are just in ground effect in a nil lift situation. We have increased the thrust by going with slightly higher voltage and may be around the 23lb mark now. Still have to try again on level ground, no lift situation.
19kg 23kg not lb! Sorry
❤ amazing How much power does the motor on this plane have?
amazing
Let us hear the flight - the wind
more videos, more experiments, more motor performance
💥💥💥💥💥💥💥💫💫💫💫💫💫
looks great fun
Very cool ..!
Cool!
Is that Ole breariton doin the rap at the beginning of the film
what kind of electric motor did you. use? brand? thanks for input
Just that little extra lift at the right time would greatly extend most flights. A missed thermal on a cross country flight results in a lot of walking and difficulty.
Besides that looking awesome, it looked like you were near the Rockingham grain terminal at one point. 🤷♂️
So just incase you know🤔
Can you tell me how high it is....I’ve wondered for ages as I can clearly see it from Halls Head beach?
Hmmm. Don't know but you got the location right :) Crazy that you can see it from there. Of course it could be worked out knowing the distance you are from it and the amount you can see of it. (eg. half way up) and knowing the horizon is 16nautical miles but I'm sure none of that is very helpful :) I'll ask.
This could be the answer for Teewah!
The song is dope. Don't let the other commenters say different.
Thank you! We have had a lot of negative comments but looking at the number of views, it must appeal to a lot people. The song writer is a friend of ours. A young Aussie dude from the country.
Génial !!! C'est le renouveau du Vol Libre
Cheers, excellent work, great flights!
Alot of potential!
Personal freedom ends at the tip of one's neighbour's nos. In this case: One Egoist have Fun at the Beach with his noisy ultralight Aircraft. But all the others suffers from that Noise and the Aspect, that this flights don't look safe.
Does anyone know how much something like this cost especially the one with the electric motor?
We think somewhere around 1500 USD but we are still working it out.
In the For a more detailed description of the motors please see the description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel.
Please write us on: machine105@proton.me
if you are interested in making/buying a motor
Looking like you’re basically having a little extra flight to get out of a hard spot but nothing yet to take off from flat land and climb to thermal altitude. Very cool but I think you’re going to need closer to 40-50 kg of thrust to be a real option. Then of course the extra weight of battery and where to place it.
That's right and that is enough for most of what we do. We are more interested in a helper motor because it is easy, light and hardly noticeable when not in use.
For total flight autonomy we know that with two predator motors at 19lb thrust each (17kg total) either side of the pilot - we climbed to 100ft easily from flat ground. We feel that we are almost there with that model but until we are out of ground effect we cant say for sure and yes, there is a lot more weight with the bigger motor.
Oops 19kg not lb! Sorry. So 38kg can get you up from flat ground but that was a long time ago so we are a bit fuzzy on the details. The props were much bigger - 28inch and the original one used motorbike 12v, lead acid batteries strapped to the pilots back!
How much does the more powerful one weigh? Does it have enough power to take off on flat land?
Very light... The batteries are the heavy bit. How ever many of them you want to carry... The motor weighs less than a kg.
We have only been in ground effect continuously but have now upped the power by increasing the voltage and going for 3 props over two but we haven't yet tested the new configuration. There will be a video as soon as we do :)
The next video will show the original two motor configuration which took off from the ground and climbed straight up with plenty of power. Look out for that one :)
Can you fly a Hangglider with a paramotor motor?
More and more videos please, as I am thinking of taking hg lessons.
Thank you.
Its a great sport.
Working on a new video now, about low dune flying and tricks, like landing on fences. Hope you'll like it :)
New tech looking promising, not so sure about the rap misic though!
If your going to put a motor on it make it big enough to take off with otherwise you get tired of messing around with it.
My original thoughts as well! - before we made the small ones - but we think differently now.
For more of our thoughts and experiences on the subject please see the description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel
@@robertberndes7878 Your trying to pump your channel sending me to "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" just proves your full of bull sh#t.
Run two motors, one behind the other, same foot print
A sustainer motor is not a bad thing either
I learned here that rap with a British accent doesn’t suck.
Maan what is that 1st song? Amazing, but can't find it
"Humble Abode" by our friend Jackson Brown from here in Western Australia.
soundcloud.com/search?q=Jackson%20brown%20humble%20abode
Thrust is lower than is necessary. You can use larger prop and get more thrust. Your goal is to get to self launch, or only as sustainer?
Only sustain. There is a size limitation between the wires and the sail. We really enjoy the advantage it gives us otherwise we wouldn't bother of course :)
where can I get one of this hang glider
Like where you’re working the lift from the building. Cool to be taking off from low hills without having to jump off of mountains,eliminating a lot of stress. How long does the battery last? What’s the price of the motor
That is one of our biggest goals with the project. A lot of hills are not accessible as you know and starting off on a low primary dune or hill is a great way to avoid a long difficult hike carrying a glider.
For a more detailed description of the motors please see the description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel.
Battery time varies with use, and size, of battery pack and motor configuration. As a guide though, with our smaller helper motors, we can use them intermittently for hours or, with the 12Ahr pack - full revs for 12min. It really just depends on how many batteries you want to carry around. We get a lot of fun out of a small light pack and that is usually our preference. We often have another charged pack on standby but rarely end up using it.
Those motors look like they're right at the threshold of being enough, so I'm guessing the rest comes from slope soaring? Yet it seems enough to help keep in that pocket of upward moving air.
Although it'd be funny to see this setup used at one of those Red Bull Flugtag events. (If the conditions were right. Instead of diving into the drink, actually having a real chance of flying off.)
Yeah they are there to extend the usual flight envelope to be able to fly on a day that would normally be unflyable, for example.
Lithium batteries have changed the world. Full stop.
I can turn on my music by myself. But sadly Ihave no E-glider to listen (let alone a bunch of them to compare). It would be helpful to hear them without music. THX
Will will try to upload a video at some point so you can hear the mtors without music.
For more details of the motors please see the description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel.
Please see "Using motor to fly in conditions too light to sustain flight" for raw flight footage.
Good morning Robert, Is It possibile to buy this Electric motor? Thanks
We are still working it out but hope to have more info out soon.
For a more details of the motors please see description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel
Hi Biagio, Please write us on: machine105@proton.me
if you are interested in making/buying a motor
very cool, nice relaxing vibe.
These hang gliders need to be able to extend and retract the wing area depending on wind conditions...maybe winglets...
Why did you choose hang gliding instead of paragliding?
Statistically safer and also much more versatile
Спасибо. Приятно видеть. Удачи.
Who is the music first and last clips
GOOD
Wow .. i'd like 2 try that ... low altitude flying along the sandy sea coast... tnx 4 incl. the kangaroos scene... trippy
helicopter pilot says, very cool, guys o/
Where the battery is located? What is the total weight of the power unit?
Usually on the chest for easy access. 7kg
that is soo amazing. defenetly deserves more attention.
no. no it doesn't
Is 19kg thrust really enough to climb with? Awesome setup guys
We are still working on getting a few extra lb thrust and we feel we are almost there but maybe we will just be stuck in ground effect. We know that two Predator motors got us straight up to 100ft from a small suburban park :)
For a more detailed description of the motors please see the description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel.
Of course with a tiny bit of lift the 11kg motors make a huge difference. We can climb to 100 feet on a day that is too light to even sustain lift without the motors. On those, coastal, days when you are getting a measly 8kn breeze. Not quite enough to stay up otherwise.
What size predator motors ?
I just found out about this, why isn’t every hang glider electric?
Hey Whats the name of the first song? Thanks
soundcloud.com/jacksonbrown
What about modifying an electric or even gas paramotor setup to yours? Seems like that would be more in line with the amount of thrust you'll need.
We have tried lots of things. Working on a video showing that...
Ok. Go ahead. Take my money ….I’m in. Where can I get one???
Hi Jerry, Please write us on: machine105@proton.me if you are interested in making/buying a motor.
Nice alternative to the IC pods . You guys in WA? Would love to look into Hang Gliding once I get sorted with gliding. Got some good spots here in Geraldton.
Nice one mate :) Sure are.
Bit of Gero footage in the other video. Red dirt, green grass and blue sky.
"Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel.
@@robertberndes7878 cheers mate, not sure if there's many flying up here anymore. Will suss out your other clips.
We usually go up one a year. By the way, there is a school here in WA run by Dave Drabble. It is in the description of the main videos. Cheers :)
What is that music? Can it be stopped?
I want to buy one or have the plans and with the the right type components to purchase then to construct
@@johnturnbull7723 Hi John, Please write us on: machine105@proton.me if you are interested in making/buying a motor.
I am 86 kilos and I fly weight shift trikes. I would like to learn and buy this setup in USA. Any suggestions please !
We are still working it out but hope to have more info out soon.
For a more detailed description of the motors please see "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel.
Please write us on: machine105@proton.me
if you are interested in making/buying a motor
@Robert Berndes Hi. Nice setup, what is the "flight time"? How strong is the motor (kw)? and what battery are you using. Thanks.
LiPo's. Lots more info in the description of "Why do girls prefer hang glider pilots". Cheers :)
Aussies are Aus-some! :D
Muito bom mesmo 😊!!!
Fantastic 👌
Wery cool ❤👍
Wow this is awesome.
E' possibile avere un link per contattare chi produce questo motore elettrico, per favore grazie a chi risponderà ,cieli blu ❤
Awesome! Hope to see them on the market soon.
Thank you!
This is awesome, is that some sort of drone engine and power pack? Where can I get one? Do you think that would work well with a Litesport?
We think it is more suited to "floaters" like the Fun, Malibu, Falcon etc.
For a more detailed description of the motors please see the description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel.
@@robertberndes7878 read that, makes sense. Well I hope you make details available, or sell the electronics+housing kit with suggestion of batteries and engine...
You seem very shy about advertising this amazing electric motor, are you still developing it? Around about 3:20 demonstrated the electric motor in these conditions. Btw a very, very nice vid, all the best from NZ
Thank you! I think most of the development is worked out now. We have been doing it for quite a few years now....
@@robertberndes7878 do you have a company, or some further literature? Mark
@@mfreeman1967 We are still working it out but hope to have more info out soon.
For more details of the motors please see description in "Why do girls prefer hang-glider pilots" on the same channel
WA?
Yep!
Brilliant work, hope to see you on a beach some day!
Back in my day, we called that slope soaring. Like to see a ROG over flat land.
We are working on it. Video coming soon...
y r we still using cars?