To see the LOD problem with the scenery that causes stutters, turn on Developer Mode (General Options/Developers/On). From the new window menu bar, drop down Debug and tick Debug Model LODs. In the tool window that pops up, tick LOD face count and Display name in addition to the default LOD size. For each model in view you will see the following: (Name of the creator), LOD[0,3], the current screen size of that model and the count of faces that need to be drawn to display it. Most airports will be very cluttered, so you can restrict the display to a particular group by typing in a few letters of the desired object's name - such as part of the creator's company name or whatever. Most 3rd party developers precede their object names with the company name short form (also tick "Use short name"). You'll find that most of the "stutter-generators" show as LOD[0,0] meaning there is only one Level of Detail model available - usually an extremely detailed model. LOD[0,3] is the most detailed of four levels of detail (numbered from 0 as are most computer indices). The screen size is the percent of the vertical size of your screen that a sphere encompassing the model takes up. 100 means that the model is currently taking up 100% of your vertical screen. This number can to to 999%, and the object disappears when it is less than about 1%. I've dumped lots of freeware and payware on general principles when I see only one LOD for a model. Think a little and you will see why taking off past the main terminal that has only one LOD causes stutters. Once you pull away from the object even 50 feet, you do not need a high level of detail. Think about it. IMHO a terminal filled with high face count empty waiting area chairs is just silly! A zillion people milling about has nothing to do with hand-flying an ILS approach in a storm. Thank you very, very much for this video.
Wow thank you for sharing your insights, I will definitely take a look into this in the developer mode. I have never dug that deep into the issue and I was only touching on my visual observations, but it seems like my intuition was pointing to the issue you very eloquently outlined here. I wonder if there are any developers that would be willing to make a tool (Similar to AutoFPS) that limits at the global level, how many of these objects can load, kind of like putting a governor on an engine, so that when approaching these objects, they just don't load into the sim if over a certain limit of the parameters you're outlining here. Great insights! If anybody reads this and wants to discuss developing a possible solution, I'd be happy to help out in anyway I can!
I don't know why this is skipped by so many developers. It's not a hard thing to create 2-3 separate versions with a lower and lower polygon amount. Blender can even do this automatically for you with a decent result. Another error some developers do is to add to much details in to areas that no one will see. I often try to identify "hotspots" that you often see out from the plane while standing still, taxing, or landing/taking off. Then it could be a good idea to add some detail to known areas of the airport that people will look at when they first bought the airport and use the free camera to move around. Things that aren't in those areas can be much simpler.
Details isn't the problem, scenery developers not being compliant with LOD guidelines outlined in the MSFS SDK is the problem. You can have interiors modelled, hell you can have an extreme level of detail but if you don't have any LODs then it'll perform terribly.
I agree with you here, I think there are some guidelines that are being ignored to save labor time and overall profitability for the developers. They essentially need to make 3-4 sets of the same textures for every single LOD which triples the time it takes to get a scenery to market. Not very economically viable to make an extremely well optimized scenery that doesn't cause stutters.
Actually most devs really are at fault themselves here. The amount of sceneries I see that just have needlessly huge textures is ridicoulous. And then also a lot of the time sooo many texture files, which all adds up to gigantic packages. I mean how many sceneries now adays come in at file sizes beyond 3 or 4GB? No wonder the sim is stuttering if all that needs to loaded at once... Even with the improvements of SU15, which certainly helped, the problem is still very much felt. Which is kinda sad about all this, that most of the time these huge texture are really not needed. Sure put a 4K or 8K texture in there for the ground that stretches across the whole field, thats fine. But putting these texture on stuff that you never really see up close from the cockpit is really counterproductive. The silliest part of that I have seen was a 8K texture used for a single person in the terminal. Really just throwing away performance for no reason.
Don't use rolling cache. The rolling cache is prone to corruption and needs to recycle all too often. Another one is the various cache and shader files. Deleting them regularly also helps a lot.
Something they might be doing (i do develop MSFS scenery) is they might be using a set number for LODs distance on all models, so instead of each piece of scenery or building changing LOD at different distances to make the transition smooth absolutely everything is loading a higher LOD at the same time as you approach.
At 17:00 you said the most crucial part.. the way how they use msfs.... e.g. performance degration over time.... i cant proof it, but my msfs is running for about 10hrs a day ... i fly several legs without leaving msfs .... at the 3rd latest at the 4th leg msfs starts geeeting more lggyish .... asobo said they have pc' running for hours to check the issue.... but a running pc is not problem... it starts after several takeoffs and landing within the same sesssion....
Yes you have a unique use-case that the testers probably never encounter. I did hear in the last dev stream that Sebastian, the lead of Asobo, was trying to create those long sector stutters you describe, but said he didn't really see any issues. He outlined how he was running 2 instances, overnight on long hauls and landing the planes when he got back to the office in the morning. I doubt he was using payware planes and scenery but they were seriously looking into the issue you are having. My average flight is only 45-55 minutes and I usually restart the sim if I do another flight so I haven't seen the bug you are experiencing.
Terrific video. Absolutely, 100% true on all points. Newark is the biggest stutter offender. Also, you didn't test this, but FSLTL and similar injector add ons worsen this phenomenon during the last 300 feet on short final.
Good point. I have FSLTL installed but don’t use it as an injector. I think it probably falls under the umbrella of objects loading in as you get closer to the airport so I can imagine it only makes things worse for stuttering.
I have been having this problem ever since I got MSFS early last year. For me, my standard "test flight" to see how good my system is, is to fly from London City to Heathrow in the Fenix A320. I have the iniBuilds EGLL and the Orbx EGLC. I basically never get the stutter on take off, but I do get them on approach/landing, however I don't get them at the freeware Gatwick. Last year I bought a GTX 4080 graphic card and I thought that would fix everything, but it didn't. I, like you, tried turning all the settings down, clearing cache, using Auto FPS, turning AI traffic off and all the rest. Nothing worked. Recently on the MSFS Developer live stream I asked them about this and they said "the memory optimisation in sim update 15 will fix this". I downloaded the update on Friday and in my testing I would say while there's no FPS difference, the stuttering has been reduced a bit. I then updated to the latest iniBuilds EGLL version 3.1.0, which is supposed to include optimisation improvements. Again, I would say there was a slight improvement. I am now at the point where I get one big stutter over the top of the city of London, then I get a few very tiny stutters high on approach (barely noticable), and I get one more medium sized pause at about 300ft. It's not perfect, but it's just about playable now. I really hope they keep working on this, but I'm fed up of waiting for it to be fixed, and I think now it's just about good enough for me to do flights into Heathrow.
Thanks for sharing, I have a BMI flight I did into EGLL and upon reviewing it I was getting a lot of stutters right near the concorde and over the terminal as I did a go-around. I think it's something we'll have to live with for quite a long time if we want to use payware scenery. From what I gather after reading through comments, is many of the add-on scenery developers ignore the SDK and make textures and objects load in , in a way that creates the stutters as you approach the airport. It's good to see Inibuilds continuously work on optimizing their marque airports, but I'm afraid they have so many airports and a limited amount of developers to go back and make improvements that could lead to a stutter free experience. Fingers crossed that MSFS2024 addresses some of these load-in issues but I am skeptical.
@@CaptainChairbus Well don't forget that iniBuilds is a publisher as well as a developer so they only actually make a small percentage of the total amount of airports available to buy from them. When you said you noticed that iniBuilds is one of the worst offenders were you talking about airports specifically developed by them in house? I definitely need to do a bit of testing to figure out if I can see any patterns.
@@mdhazeldine Yes I was talking about airports specifically developed by them, but I'm probably biased because I fly into their airports often versus some airports I have from other developers I don't fly into as often. But what is amazing, is it has nothing to do with the size or scope of the scenery. I was watching one of my favorite streamers the other day fly into a bush strip with cows and tents, and the scenery there caused a massive stutter that wrecked his landing. So it seems like certain objects loading in cause these stutters. He is also running a 4090 and 13900k system so should be able to handle a dirt strip. I timestamped the landing here: ruclips.net/video/DTF5j0Ftwc8/видео.html
I get this all the time. What I do is dump all my cache files and then use add on linker to empty my community folder and fly for a while in Vanilla MSFS. Not I plan my flights before I get in the sim and only activate the appropriate scenery and for the most part I have cut those stutters down. Also one crazy thing that seems to have helped is I log into my VPN before I start the sim. I am convinced that many providers throttle MSFS servers so when I use my VPN, the sim just seems a lot smoother and with less stutters.
I also regularly clear all the DX, GL caches and have tried emptying the community folder except the airports I play to fly into and arrive at. While the loading times are greatly reduced, the approach stutters still occur depending on the airports I fly into. Been flying with no payware scenery for 5 days and haven't had a single stutter.
@@CaptainChairbus Can you name the absolute WORST offenders for Payware Airports? I will get them and attempt to replicate your results on my system and see what happens.
@@Bellthorian I like to use DD Newark and Inibuilds EGLL and KJFK for testing, I can reliably get stutters when approaching these airports. I've been surprised often at even small airports with very little scenery, the way it loads in can cause huge stutters on approach. This clip is a good example of a streamer flying into a bush strip with custom scenery in a light aircraft. He is on 4090 with 13900k ruclips.net/video/DTF5j0Ftwc8/видео.html
@@CaptainChairbus ROFLMAO, I have seen that clip. It reminds me of when I was flying with OnAir, my virtual airliner and it stuttered so bad about 100 feet off the deck and I crashed, throwing away like three hours of flight time. I was SOOOOO mad. I am going to load up those airports and let you know how they act on my system. I have the Ryzen 5800X3d, 64 Gig of ram and a 4090.
@@CaptainChairbus I was doing some research and apparantly INI builds KJFK has issues with the default airport and they recommend these fixes Note: To remove various objects on the airport, go to “inibuilds-airport-kjfk-new-york\Scenery\airport-kjfk-newyork\kjfk-scene” and rename the following files: • Terminals - People: kjfk-scene-people.bgl -> kjfk-scene-people.disabled • Landside Cars: kjfk-scene-cars.bgl -> kjfk-scene-cars.disabled • Ground Clutter: kjfk-scene-gen_clutter.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gen_clutter.disabled • Vegetation: kjfk-scene-veg.bgl -> kjfk-scene-veg.disabled • Animated Airtrain: kjfk-scene-airtrain.bgl -> kjfk-scene-airtrain.disabled • Static Aircraft: kjfk-scene-statics.bgl -> kjfk-scene-statics.disabled • Construction Clutter: kjfk-scene-const_clutter.bgl -> kjfk-scene-const_clutter.disabled • GSE - General: kjfk-scene-gse.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gse.disabled • GSE - Tugs & Tows: kjfk-scene-gse-tugstows.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gse-tugstows.disabled • GSE - Snow Equipment: kjfk-scene-gse-snow.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gse-snow.disabled • GSE - Cargo: kjfk-scene-gse-cargo.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gse-cargo.disabled Note: To remove Terminals - Detailed interiors, rename the following files: • inibuilds-airport-kjfk-new-york\Scenery\airport-kjfk-newyork\kjfk-modellib\kjfk-modellib-termPC.bgl -> kjfk-modellib-termPC.disabled • inibuilds-airport-kjfk-new-york\Scenery\airport-kjfk-newyork\kjfk-modellib\kjfk-modellib-termXB.disabled -> kjfk-modellib-termXB.bgl Have you tried these fixes?
Good video but people have to understand the key component in a gaming rig or laptop is the processor. The is the engine of it all. When you run payware, your running files not native to the scenery msfs has in the sim. When your GPU and memory are pulling from different application and the payware scenery and the aircraft and the voice inside 1 mile, it is taxing your processor like crazy. A rig must have a consistent range of hardware. Meaning just cause you have a 4 cylinder engine in a Corvette doesn't mean it will be just as fast. Your want high end then 4090 with i9 or razen 9 amd with 32 gb to 64gb of ram. 4090 in and i5 you want get the top proformance. It will be a bit better but not top. Add-ons are resource consuming. Work with your settings.
I think part of the issue with MSFS is it has the 1 core doing the aerodynamics, physics, scenery loading and rendering all on the one core. I'm curious to see what performance gains can be made by offloading onto multiple cores as they promise in MSFS2024
I realised there was stutters being caused by poorly configured add ons when I would rename the community folder when installing a sim update, so no add ons, lovely and smooth no stutters .
What about the new Sim Update. I'm not able to test it till now. But Microsoft was telling addressing exact this issues in Sim Update 15!? Any results?
I used to have to optimise Free and Payware in FSX and I still have to do it in MSFS. Some developers don't follow the SDK, maybe they made products for FSX and continue to use the same techniques for MSFS 'just because it's how they work'. Laziness is never an excuse but most of the developers don't fly like we do, or they might spot the issues. Just imagine if developers started following the SDK and optimising their products. Not all are at fault but many could deliver better optimised products that cause less crashes and/or stutters.
Interesting, I never dug into the actual scenery files themselves, do you mind sharing what you do to optimize their sceneries? Are you downscaling textures, etc? Thanks
@@CaptainChairbus I don't edit BGLs as they are normally protected. I do edit textures as required. 4k is more than enough. 2k normally just fine. I have a 4090 but the formatting will affect the stutters somewhat, which are still there in SU15 and will be in MS2024 most likely.
I would gladly join in for the free testing of aircraft / scenery / airport -- I routinely find spots where the stutters are so bad that the screen freezes for over 10 seconds - these are always in same spots, so it cannot be GPU settings or Windows 10 settings. A good example of those freezing spots (always the same spots) are in Rio de Janeiro for example or near Nice Airport in France. Adding mods will exacerbate the fault is already there on first / minimal install with empty community folder. I am a professional developer in a different industry but have been flying on MSFS 2020 since 2021 - I have accumulated over 3300 hours of flight. I would also do the testing for no financial profit but for contributing to the improvement of MSFS 2020.
The approach stutters are primarily caused by 'services' on the ground loading in. It's not so much of a fix but changing 'Services' to 'OFFServices' in the Msfs data folder fixed most of my approach problems. The downsides are, you'll remove the in game standard pushback and parking guidance after landing.
Is that different than turning all Airport Life to zero on the sliders in sim. I don't have any airport life when I do my testing, still seems main culprit is always the airport scenery loading in.
I have a RTX 2060 on my mid-2020 PC and don't have this problem. This is the funniest FS video I have ever seen. Thanks! And I asked Asobo to make Pyreegue share their insider secrets for optimization. They ignored me. And that hurts the ENTIRE community! Pyreegue and Gaya know because they work closely with Asobo.
I have been increasingly flying vanilla scenery xp12 for a few months for the same reason, and while airport buildings dont look nearly as good as payware they do the job, and my brain forgets the second I release parking brake, not to say smootly rotating and flaring.
I think it's a bit easier in XP12 because their default airports look quite decent in my opinion. They also have nice vehicles and services driving around which make the airfield seem alive. I'm hoping Asobo really puts a lot of time into creating a similar default environment into MSFS2024 because it is one of the weak areas that X-Plane excels in.
@@CaptainChairbus I really hope your take on this subject will resonate on simmers and developers alike. I love several msfs aspects, specially third party complex airplanes. But I would exchange more eyecandy on msfs2024 for a stutter free experience without a doubt.
Turn on Auto_FPS just as you're on final (or taxiing out / departure) **as the stutters occur** - stuttering disappears completely... for a moment. What is Auto_FPS doing that eliminates stuttering (momentarily) and why does the stuttering start again? There's your answer. The dev needs to investigate that. ETA: For me, there is no apparent degradation of TLOD or OLOD during this stutter-free period.
cause thats the answer to the issue. AutoFPS fixes the stutter by dynamically changing the TLOD and OLOD while u ascending or descending the plane. Where right now with MSFS default, having TLOD at 200 will be 200 regardless if ur in the ground or in the air
@@N00bPr0ducti0n nope, that’s not it. The stutters cease as the app is loading up and connecting to the sim and at that point does not have any influence on the settings.
Don't say that too loud. Microsoft spanked me for mentioning autofps. As it rewrites memory addresses and unapproved for use in the sim. And as our op said, autofps doesn't really help much on approach and take off or help the underlying issue of the scenery developer's lod settings embedded in the scenery design. Every object could be set at lod0 and it would be like a switch turned on. Not really a great idea, and a huge strain. Like the opposite of setting different lod levels of aircraft parts. Like landing gear at lod0 and wings at lod1. I was wondering why ai aircraft float at the ramp. Lol
@@casstephens3124 ya I read his comment wrong or misinterpreted. And ya i also got shit on by Microsoft for talking about framegen mod and auto fps🤣. Absolute clowns🤡
Y'aaaaaa.. I just tried a Cincinnati to DTW. with AutoFPS off, and all my addon Scenery off. that includes I love VFR, birds, Pretty much the only thing running in SIM was GSX. Not a single stutter. perfect flight with LOD set at 100, both Terrain and Objects. But then again, The DTW Textures didnt load until I was about 150 feet away. LOL.
Good video, thank you. Stumbled upon this as one of the many "headless chickens" !! trying to reduce stutters or micro pauses. I will not be upgrading my PC until after MSFS 2024. I will be curious if Asobo can really make a new flight sim that has none of these micro pauses, stutters. I will hold my breath on that one !!. Currently I use my good ol' trusty steam-punk GPU, yes the ubiquitous RTX 2080Ti, (famous for its launch in 2018 at a ridiculous price !). It has an overclock and has served me very well from FSX to this current edition of MSFS 2020. I ususally cap my frames to 35FPS in Nvidia control panel. In the sim I set DX11, TAA, with my screen resolution for Ultrawide mpnitor 3440x1440. TLOD at 100, OLOD 95. I turn traffic down. And reduce ships, boats, vehicles down to a lower setting. Not really interested in those as I am flying. They may add to the ground ambience etc, but I prefer a smooth Sim. So I keep flying the same flight for hours if not days !! yup trying to iron out exactly what and where and why I get these micro pauses in the Sim. I fly from Milford sound in New Zealand to Christchurch RWY 02, in my fav Chancellor 414 from FlySimware, ( an excellent addon). Currently on a good Nvidia driver 552.44, very stable. I tried 555.85, was ok but 555.99, hmmm not good ! for me at least. So I am not a software eng, so forgive me if I am speaking complete bxxllocxks !, but not only do these over extravagant airports with a crazy amount of detail cause problems, its also the nature of how the Sim is built, at least for MSFS 2020. My understanding is that the world is a huge mosaic, with "tiles" like jig-saw puzzle pieces. You fly one one tile to the next, the system loads the next tile and cache's it ahead of the one you are in. I flew this same flight plan for hours on end. From Milford Sound to Christchurch RWY 2. ( Yes I believe Christchurch is hand crafted by Asobo after a previous world update ) And at a way point "Hodde" en route to Christchurch I get the same micro pause in the Sim. The pause lasts for about half a second. It always happens at this point. I suspect that at this point, is the so called "gap" ,between my previous "tile" and the next "tile", the "Tile" that has Christchurch airport and surrounding suburban small townships. The pause occurs as the system is trying to load in this more detailed "tile". Now, the "tile" size may be 50 sq miles less, or more, I dont know. But I suspect that is why I get that pause in the Sim. Because the Christchurch area "tile" contains the airport and suburban town, villages etc and fields, lakes. The pause happens exactly at the same point every time. I tried DLSS, DLAA, TAA DX12(beta) and the usual changes in the NVidia control panel. I also use software such as MSF2020_AutoFPS, Process Lasso to set my sim at high priority. For me this software does help, its not snake oil or placebo. So no matter what I do via settings in the Sim or Nvidai control panel that pause occurs every time at that location. I can reduce it slightly, and I did by going back to DX11 and TAA. And also by capping my FPS in Nvidia control panel to 35FPS. But the pause is ALWAYS there. I suspect if I chose another world area it will occur again. I have to add that as if by some luck there are the occasional world geographies where it does not occur. However, a slight pause DOES occur at most large airports 5 miles befor landing, EVERY TIME !! sadly. The knack, so to speak is to make your own adjustments to reduce it. So to end all my waffle here !!, I may go and upgrade my PC for a complete new system, but not yet, (not much change out of £4000 pounds !! dollars !! or whatever !!.) New hardware, CPU and GPU and DDR5 memory etc will undoubtedly help. Thats fine I do understand that, and speaking seriously thats where new hardware can have a big affect in performance. But I am holding back until I see what MSFS 2024 offers in the way of better optimisation. And of course by end of 2024 Nvidia will launch the 50 series GPU's. But thats another story !!. Thank you for insights to a common problem that most flight Sim enthusiasts encounter. Whether on a Mid Tier system or High End system. Ohh, and I subscribed to your channel, as hoping for more helpful information to flight sim common issues. Prologue : I am not convinced that SU 15 has done much for optimisation. Asobo should be applauded for many of the changes within SU 15, but optimisation ?, not so sure.
Im with you. I, too, am not convinced 2024 with magically fix the stutter issues. I have approx 200 custom airports, and have noticed the load times and general reduction in performance. Im running a 4070, and still face performance issues. I fly the fenix a320 and inibuilds a300 most of the time.
Yes, with software, hope isn't a good strategy, I made the video to get our voices heard by the developers and help them find a solution that works for us so we can enjoy stutter free approaches into the airports we buy.
@@ReidsAviation Nice, I haven't bought the CRJ yet, I heard the developer is working on a big update. I think the A300 and Fenix tend to perform pretty smooth because they do most of their avionics on the GPU rather than the CPU.
@@ReidsAviation …..yes, i like the crj as well. But I spend 95% of my time in the fenix a320 and the inibuilds a300. GA aircraft I really like the tbm 850, but rarely fly it.
Recording software on approach and take off, may cause additional load on system resources? Since the recording software is not Asobo its 3rd party. Just my thoughts.
In my testing, I tested with and without recording. Made no difference in my testing. Last 2 flights I have done on VATSIM with recording and no 3rd party airports has been butter smooth with no stutters! Good news but I miss my 3rd party airports!
Yes yes yes. Your analysis is 100 percent correct. I have too faced this and can confirm. I removed all the 3rd party airports and my sim is absolutely butter smooth. This is really disgusting because 3rd party addon devs are not bothered about stutters. Even some bigger name devs airports are stuttering. I have stopped adding any 3rd party airports almost completely.
Has Sim Update 15 improved this problem, its memory handling is supposed to be improved and decreasing stutters. Does this improvement work on non-Asobo airports?
The approach hang is way more common on big vatsim events due to the vast number of planes. Inibuilds make super super detailed sceneries that initially run like garbage hence the bad fps but they slowly improve it over time so that definitely means performance can be improved for the scenery devs' end. One thing try to do remove static planes that are present in the scenery itself, this helps but I forget to do this step like 80% of the time as it requrires changing the name of some files in the scenery.
Approach Hang is a good term, that is where it most often occurs and can be pretty severe. I don't think any of my Inibuild sceneries have static aircraft other than KLAX which I opted to remove and I always try to remove the static if possible on my sceneries. I found I don't get any performance hits on VATSIM events after I downscaled all the textures on FSLTL Model matching down to 2K.
Saw this video after last night experiencing massive stuttering at Inibuilds Luton airport just while taxiing - we are talking stutters of 5-8 seconds !!! I'm on the beta of MSFS and since the beta is more or less final release version I am not confident this will be fixed ever for MSFS 2020 - hopefully it will be in 2024
Thanks for sharing your experience! I can concur I also experience longggg stutters on the ground and on approach to many Inibuilds sceneries. I have had poor performance like you describe at their new London Luton. I had them on SU14 and the SU15 Beta and I agree, this sadly will not be addressed in FS2020, so we are most likely in for another 4-6 months minimum of stutters if using heavy payware scenery.
I've got a couple airports that I was *really* excited to finally get. Yet, they're absolutely HORRIBLE on performance because.......the dev decided to use Asobo default aircraft as Static Traffic around the airport. That's one of the biggest things that cause issues from my experience. Devs like UK2000SCENERY have their own asset library and others use hollow assets and that what more devs should be doing.
I doubt Asobo knows how to prevent the stutters. The Standard Edition's "Köln/Bonn" (EDDK) Airport is one of the worst offenders when it comes to stutters on landing.
I haven't tested that particular scenery but the Aerosoft Payware Koln was one of my best performing sceneries before I decided to uninstall all my payware.
The MS Game bar can cause the sim to stutter. i had this problem and all i did was uninstall the MS / XBOX Game Bar and that fixed the problem for me. i never had to uninstall addons
Yes this is something I have tested, unfortunately it did not resolve the scenery loading stutter issue for me but happy to hear it got rid of your stutters.
@@CaptainChairbus Hopefully. The honolulu airport works alright though, although I had some issues where my screen went completely black, but if I clicked my other monitor it worked, but when I clicked the sim monitor again it went black
great video.....now imagine that someone like me who is running a Xbox S is going through....plus....its gotten worst after SU 15. So......MSFS 24 will be the fix? I dont think so!
@@CaptainChairbus I doubted that my old PC could handle 2020 so opted for a Series X for now while saving for better PC, Of course I encounter stutters too, and assumed that it had to due with this limited machine plus payware airports, aircraft, sceneries, and hoped acquiring a high end PC like the one described in this video would fix the issue. I'm sorry to see that may not be the case, but intend to make the switch by the end of the year and experiment with which 3rd party content triggers the issues most. Thank you for raising the issue in a way that MS/Aobo/Developers should be able to see the problem.
I definitely have better luck flying in Europe, the Addon developers seem to prioritize airports in EU, particularly the German fields. I rarely get stutters when flying into popular airports in Germany.
My question is: What does 'pre-rendering' actually do? Are they caching data in VRAM, or DRAM, or even on a physical disk? I assume the amount of pre-rendered data is proportional to the TLOD setting, i.e. a TLOD of 400 would need to pre-render a much larger amount of data, and users with less powerful systems (Xbox, for example) simply wouldn't have the VRAM or DRAM to cache it all out to, say, 5 miles. Limiting TLOD would of course mean much less data gets cached, and then your theory makes sense. Less area pre-rendered = stutters, as the program tries to keep up with areas it once rendered, but lost the cache data for. Hopefully Microsobo is planning to use the system resources available in higher end systems like you, optimizing DRAM - and especially VRAM - usage to improve complex scenery caching. As you said, your system should be able to run at high TLOD and OOLD settings, with no fear of stutters, and reasonably high framrates, almost regardless of the complexity of the payware.
It's a very good question...I know MS/Asobo have changed the TLOD algorithms with the way scenery is loaded in several times during update cycles. I remember seeing people say they got huge degradations in performance with the way scenery was loading in around SU9 and it never quite was as good since then. I believe they changed scenery loading for XBOX users who received a benefit , but the PC version inherited the new methodology as well and it resulted in many issues. I have been testing with higher TLOD values on approach (150+) to see if I could pre-cache the airports 5+ miles out but it didn't seem to do much in the way of eliminating the final approach stutters. I think it may have more to do with OLOD, im which the smaller objects like taxi way signs, cars, airport vehicles and gates get their permission to load in. I am going to do some more testing this week with OLOD cranked to 200 or more. I did see a difference in how some objects loaded in smoother with Inibuilds JFK and DRZEWIECKI Design Newark when I had higher OLOD values, but it still did stutter at non-ideal phases of flight.
You guys should be at least grateful you are able to buy those peripherals for your PC with your hard earned money just so you could run this sim in 60+ frames. Not like me who has to shrink the 4K textures of liveries just to make it run smoothly.
Hi, many thanks for making this video, addressing an issue that is quite game braking. At least it makes the experience worse. By the way, what tools are you using for replay and landing performance measurement? And finally, your landings are great!
Yes, it is a bit time consuming to try to troubleshoot what is going on with MSFS but it seems like the community has positively received this type of content mixed with some of my opinions. Like I say in the video, my only intention is to make the sim better and grow the hobby into the future so we can all enjoy it!
@@CaptainChairbus I am sure things will get better, I also just switched from an rtx 3050 to a 4060 so dlss 3 frame generation really made the game fun again
Software has always been ahead of the hardware. And there is no software or hardware (currently) that can handle the LOD our real world entail. Sims like X-Plane or MSFS portray the bigger picture. Whereas DCS, Arma or combat sims focus on the details, hence the former sims are able to simulate the entire world and others only a fraction of our very beautiful earth..It is going to cost us more than 1024 Exabytes or 999 Trillions to properly simulate the earth on our devices (PCs, consoles or mobi[le phone]s.)
Yes, The Flight Simulator Franchise in particular has always pushed hardware beyond what it was originally intended to do. I have now experienced the sim without my payware addons and it is running buttery smooth. It is a testament to how incredibly well MSFS runs in a vanilla sim install environment, but the issue still remains when approaching and departing from payware airports. I have to admit I have thoroughly enjoyed the sim much more than I anticipated with no payware airports, the flying is so smooth!
@@CaptainChairbus Absolutely. But Microsoft, Laminar Research, Eagle Dynamics and others (flight sim devs) cannot do it alone. Third parties devs assist with details we users enjoy and they provide options that sim devs cannot accomplish at the moment. Flight sim devs have in-cooperated rotorcraft technology on top of the evolving fixed-wing calculations or computations that they are trying to at least perfect. Flight sims and third party devs need to find a way to share optimizations as the workload (which its improvements are tangible or visible from the flight sims devs' side) in order to bring about balance. Orbx and Microsoft, Laminar Research or Eagle Dynamics have already brought about such endeavours.
Hey Man, I cannot agree More! I have similar specs (exept i run on 7800x3d) and have the same problem. I dont think it is too much to aske to exper 90-100 FPS on 5k PC
I'm using a 4K monitor 4096 x 2160, running on DLSS Ultra Quality Setting is my preferred Anti Aliasing method. I play on 4k textures whenever offered for my planes and scenery, no need for 8K.
1) Don't use rolling cache 2) Use Addon Linker to separate your scenery into areas. I have mine as the 4 quadrants of the continental US, one for Europe, and one for "everything else." I have no stutter issues on my 7950X3D and 4090 with this setup.
Thanks for the suggestions. I tested with rolling cache off as well as on. I typically use MSFS with the rolling cache off as my default setting. I also use Add-on linker and separate the different regions as you suggested. I took it a few steps further and tested linking my addons from different SSDs and NVMes in my computer. My theory was that maybe the scenery is having trouble loading into the sim from certain drives. Unfortunately, that made no difference as the same sceneries stuttered at the same points while approaching and landing no matter which drive they were linked from.
@@CaptainChairbus Yeah... I might have an issue xD (as in to wanting to have most sceneries) also crap ton of liveries for all the planes and they take up a lot of space.
This is absolutely hilarious. If you really had $5000 worth of payware scenery, maybe instead you should have spent that money on a system that can run the sim with that scenery. Ever since I upgraded, there is not a single payware airport I have found that causes stutters or low fps. And I own a little over 100 different payware airports. Some that were brutal on my performance before upgrading.
did you even watch the video? he literally has the fastest GPU available at the moment, one of the fastest cpu’s available and enough ram there wouldn’t really be much point in upgrading
@@JM-jd2bfglad you pointed that out. Because i didn’t give it a thought. Figured at the time he must not have a strong enough system. I too have a 7950x3d and 4090. Some is not right with his config. I don’t have these issues. But I have done a lot to optimize it.
I'm running I7 9700k, rtx 2070 super 32gb 3200mhz ram and don't get any stuttering, maybe low frames at big international airports but no stutters, only fly into 3rd party scenery, this is what confuses me I have half the spec of yours and it runs fine🤷♂️
Theres a few reasons, If you're playing at very low frames the stutters could be undetectable with low hz monitor and low fps. These are the types of stutters on a 4090 13900k set up. ruclips.net/video/DTF5j0Ftwc8/видео.html
I also work out the gpu in VR. THE quest resolution is turned all the way up and with shadows and refections turned up. I don't want the graphics card sitting there with its finger up it's nose as we know the sim is cpu limited. It's what I found switching from my 3080 ti, to a 4080 super. The stutters got worse with the 4080 super unless I gave the gpu some more to do
Lol, its not your system!!! And lower setting helps, because just think what's going through your broadband router when it comes to MSFS2020. If its not Nvidia cache at fault, there timeout in MSFS2020 caused by packet drops on you home broadband, even if its fibre. Is not business grade or qos enabled for msfs2020 data packets. Over yiu broadband ther client and server positioning updates, LOD increasing at lower a Attitude and photo graphic scenary. Plus vat sim updates. I use Auto FPS to manage my issues, dialing down LOD LOT on take off and landing. Custom scenary or airports can make things worse. Msfs2020 needs to fix the old MSFS2020 preloading cache issues or reduce visibility distance to an aircraft, so not everything in the local area is crated around your aircraft.
I notice this on some Asobo and Third Party airports. Mainly in areas with high photogrammetry like Atlanta, or Los Angeles. A quick fix I found was to delete and rebuild your rolling cache.
Yes I have definitely tried deleting and rebuilding the cache several times however this did not yield any results with payware sceneries loading in. I'm flying with Photogrammetry and Bing streaming satellite imagery streaming, on VATSIM and getting excellent, stutter free performance, I only experience the stuttering with the payware sceneries loading in.
Finally, someone talked about this and many people in the comments haven’t yet catch on to it yet since I guess most of them only fly GA aircraft and don’t engage in High demanding area.. but make it clear these developers need to be pirated. I know that sounds extreme but this is the only solution unless you have so much money to burn. Let me show you some examples 1- inibulids : whether it’s airport or aircraft either way you’ll get a terrible experience and no matter what product or where is it on the map you would still get bad for for no reason.. Verdict : These guys should be pirated every day all day. 2- mkstudio : their sceneries are somewhat terrible, but nothing comes closer to the Montreal scenery. The airport when it released wasn’t playable at all but from what I can see, they are making some progress specially towards optimizing performance, and that shows in their latest airport LaGuardia Verdict : buy if you have a somewhat decent hardware 3- BM World : it’s one of the most terrible dev you’ll ever encounter terrible sceneries not accurate and not optimized Verdict : pirate them 4- Drzewiecki Design : basically inibulids doppelganger all of their scenery look great from a graphic standpoint in terms of performance. All of them are shit even the ones in remote areas do not buy at all costs Verdict : pirate or avoid 5- aerosoft : some of their sceneries look outdated and they hit your performance so hard you cannot unnoticed it specially Brussels.. verdict : buy but be careful There are so many I can’t go through all of them, but these are the worst
I'm going to leave this comment up even though you are encouraging people to commit an illegal crime - but I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this. The third party developers are the literal lifeblood of the Flight Simulation Community and hobby. They are incredibly talented and dedicated to making the hobby thrive and if they do not thrive financially, they will go out of business, at which point you wouldn't have any sceneries to pirate in the first place. These developers have families and employees and need to put a roof over their head so that they can continue to make sceneries for you to enjoy. If you don't enjoy their sceneries I would recommend doing something constructive like making a video showing them why you don't like it , rather than stealing from them. It is a market based economy, so if developers receive customer feedback, they can choose to either respond to the market and adapt to what we as customers want, or ignore customers and lose money in the long run due to a poor reputation. A great example of this feedback being taken is the work that Inibuilds has been doing inside their app where airports like KJFK and KLAX, they allow the customer choose low res textures, and turn off many resource heavy features like landside cars, clutter, ground equipment, and detailed interiors. It is encouraging to see developers listening to customers and the industry of MSFS scenery development is still in its infancy so we should all have some grace and patience as the sim evolves and best practices are discovered. A metaphor for what you are suggesting is if a restaurant makes food you don't like, you should be allowed to go in and eat the food without paying even though you knew the food would suck to begin with...that's called theft. If everyone did that to a restaurant, the restaurant would go out of business...we don't want that to happen to scenery developers. Rather than steal from the developers, let's rally around their businesses financially and constructively help them make the best products possible so we can enjoy many more stutter-free sceneries well into the future.
@@CaptainChairbus I mean, you created a whole video ranting about FPS and now you’re defending them I don’t understand? Anyways, you can go on the forms of these developers and see for yourself they don’t give a flying F and what we are doing to them is what they deserve..
@@slizzy418 You made it abundantly clear that you didn't watch the video since I explicitly said the FPS have absolutely nothing to do with the performance issue of stuttering at this point here: ruclips.net/video/gpvU1elcWqk/видео.html .... To you maybe the video is a rant, but if you go through the comments you will see it served it's intended purpose which was to present a constructive critique of Microsoft/Asobo and 3rd Party developers loading scenery methodology, and the other users are experiencing the same issue. When you constructively give feedback in this manner to developers, they listen and fix the problems.
@@CaptainChairbus I did watch your video to the very end and I noticed that you critiqued DD and inibulids as well as avsim.. you have a 4090 and I have a 4070 both of us complaining about performance should be an alarming matter because if people like you and me started complaining about the performance, what about the others ? The people with the 2000 and 3000 series. Can you imagine how is it hell on earth for them? Can you imagine the amount of money they spent on the sceneries? I’m sure you don’t. The developers that you mentioned have been ignoring their customers for ages way before MSFS which tells you that they don’t listen at all and I’m not talking about asobo or Microsoft I’m talking about the third-party developers the three guys you mentioned, as well as the others I mentioned are well-known within the community to have the worst performance and optimization because if they really care they should know better than this game is not optimized as it is and pushing products that does not perform properly won’t help anyone and won’t help their sales too if they care they would’ve listened, but because you are apparently living under a rock this is beyond your comprehension.. check out their forums for the love of God
@@slizzy418 This will be my final reply to this thread. I don’t see the point in arguing with somebody who believes it's morally and ethically correct to steal a product because you don’t like the quality of the product. I am aware of the lack of communication between developers and their paying customer’s desires, that is why I made the video, to communicate to them like an adult on possible ways we can find solutions to the issues. This is how products eventually get better. It’s a process. I have also posted on their forums and seen the lack of response you mention. It is a complicated ecosystem and there may be software limitations in the current version of MSFS that is prohibiting them from making performant sceneries that you and I expect. Anyway I appreciate your feedback and we can agree to disagree on the best way to move forward and how to support the future of the hobby. Let’s hope some developers see our conversation and reach out.
Root cause analysis = Looking out the window :-). I think MSFS doesn't use all of our CPU cores. Maybe try setting the game up to load that scenery sooner so its not doing it at the last moment.
Yes I spent many hours testing OLOD to get the scenery to load in sooner before I arrive at the Airport. While I did see objects loading in a bit sooner than I normally see, the game play was overall more choppy with higher OLOD, and I still got the stutters as I approached the airport around 3-5 miles out and on final approach. Theoretically, if the OLOD was optimized properly it should resolve the stuttering issue but for my personal experience, it just led to choppy jittery game play, particularly when panning in the cockpit and didn't resolve the stutters.
Not being funny but have you tried without aircraft traffic? You didn’t mention testing this. Seems logical to me that as you’re flying into larger international airports, there are going to be a lot of parked aircraft that it spawns into existence when you get close. That surely causes stutters and it’s nothing to do with the third party scenery.
It's a very good question. I have all my traffic sliders set to zero and I test offline as well as on VATSIM (neither makes a difference when it comes to scenery popping of the 3rd party airports) . I also have all my airport vehicles, workers, road traffic, fauna, and sea traffic set to zero. I do not use any traffic add-ons when I am flying offline so the airports are completely empty, no static or AI aircraft.
@@CaptainChairbus Thanks for the reply. Yeah the engine is just jank and I also share your fear about v2024 not being significantly different or better in this regard. Love to be proved wrong but I feel Asobo are up Shiatsu Creek without a paddle and they are blind to a lot of common problems as they don’t ever test with other products (it’s not their concern, even though the whole ecosystem is set up for DLC content… very weird!).
@@Baracus250 Agree, my hope in the video was to bring the issue to their attention, the more voices we have giving them constructive feedback the better. I think they're unaware of some of the issues that serious simmers encounter since we are outnumbered probably 50 to 1 by users who just want to recreationally fly an FA-18 under a bridge once a month versus people who are investing into their simulator. Nothing wrong with recreationally using the sim since it is a large and important part of the economical viability for MS/Asobo, but that majority may be drowning out the voices of users who are using it for more serious simulation.
I fly with photo realistic scenery off which helps with fps and stutters beside most of the buildings have gone back to looking melted last few months and no its not my internet 150mbps upload and 1500 download.
I'm flying with Photogrammetry and Bing streaming satellite imagery streaming, on VATSIM and getting excellent, stutter free performance, I only experience the stuttering with the payware sceneries loading in.
It seems like there is a big misconception in the Flight Simulator world that lowering FPS creates smoother game play. This is a flat out lie, and I did the testing since I too believed this myth. I capped my frames using NVCP and RTSS at 30, 45 and 60 FPS, and got the exact same stutters at the exact same spots in the sim where I got the stutters with my frames capped at 90 FPS and uncapped. The issue is with the way the scenery is loading into the sim, not the overhead of the GPU that generates the frames. If you're computer is incapable of reaching 30 or 60 FPS, this may result in performance stutters, but this video is discussing scenery loading stutters which is caused by 3rd party add ons loading into the sim. If I have time this week I would like to make a video demonstrating the same scenery stuttering at 30, 60, 90, 120 fps, all stuttering at the exact same point as the plane approaches the airport. Worth checking the video more in depth...ruclips.net/video/gpvU1elcWqk/видео.html
@@CaptainChairbus RUclips only showed me the first sentence of your comment at first. It's not a misconception at all, and it's not limited to sims. Limiting your FPS to what your system can achieve with 95% utilization will absolutely smooth out your frametimes in any game. It doesn't help as much in situations when you can reach high FPS, which you can with your top of the line system. It helps in situations when you system is fully maxed out, like at ini KJFK with A310, FSLTL etc and sunrise/sunset. I'm not sure about the 7950X3D, but on a 5800X3D you can't get more than 30FPS (nonFG) in that scenario anyway. So you want to limit your FPS to the that number, so when you do get into that situation you don't get massive frametime spikes. This also applies to other games, albeit they run at much higher FPS. There's little reason to run over 60FPS. You really don't need any more than that for a flight sim, and it's a waste of power. I would prefer to set and forget my FPS limit instead of having to change it depending on where I'm flying. There are diminishing returns, and I certainly wouldn't limit lower than what your system is capable of at 95% load in the most performance demanding scenario possible. Or 30FPS without framegen, or 60 with. If I can get higher LOD at 60FPS, I'm going to priortize that over more frames, as that is more immersive than a few extra FPS. I recommend watching some battle(non)sense videos or the Gamer's Nexus videos with Tom Petersen or the Nvidia dude. But yeah, I concede that "no more stutters" is a bit of an over-statement, what I meant was "smoother frametimes". FWIW I basically never get stutters apart from when an airport is first loading in - that is unavoidable, as you say due to the sim.
3:30 minutes in the video and I am immediately thinking about deleting the rolling cache. I had something similar. Ok, that said, I will continue watching.
Great video that explains the major issue the most of us are experiencing. I hope you did share this video with the Zendesk and on the forum. The product really needs the polishing so we can enjoy smooth takeoffs and landings. And yes, I really do hope this is solved with their upcoming release, MSFS2024. Happy flying Captain Chairbus 🫡 Mark
I think you’re onto something. Another developer is MK Studio. I recently got one of their airport scenery and my god, it was a mess of studtters. Removed it and it was smooth as butter. I’m done, I’ll just keep the default for now.
MK studios makes beautiful looking scenery and did a great job on Philadelphia, which is where I grew up and I was so happy that I bought it on day one. But like you, after flying around these beautiful airports you begin to value smoothness over looks and just end up settling for the default scenery in order to enjoy a buttery smooth experience.
I understand where he is coming from. But osobo only cares about money and same goes for developers. You watch osobo slowly drift away from msfs 2020 after 2024 is released.
Its the 4090 the sim dont like it. I got a 7900xtx and a 4090 and the 7900xtx works alot better no studders at all. Soon as i put the 4090 in it studders. 64gb 7950x at 55.75ghz all core. The sim dont like 4090s
It's possible the card is feeding the processor too many frames before it's ready to process it all causing the stutters, might be a mismatch in the frametime/framerate.
I'll probably move to Intel's next generation chip sometime next year depending on how MSFS2024 is running. I haven't been thrilled with AMD's multi tasking ability, this was my first ever AMD Processor and I bought it specifically for MSFS. I'm beginning to learn that hardware is less important than how well optimized the game is and how well built the underlying architecture of the game is. It's impossible to brute force your way to smooth game play if the sim itself has some underlying flaws.
I tested this on both SU14 and SU15 Beta, the issue is present on both versions. They claim less stutters on developer streams for users with low end hardware, but that does not include stutters caused by payware scenery loading into the sim. The base sim with no Payware addon scenery runs perfectly buttery smooth for me in both SU14 and SU15. The issue is with how Add-on scenery loads into the simulator and sadly that is not fixed in SU15, DX12 nor DX11.
I'm having some better luck with the stutters only linking in the 2 airports I'm flying to. Wonder if the game is just overwhelmed when you have 350+ airports loading in.
@@CaptainChairbus That's exactly what I do, I only load in what I need for a particular flight. I don't think it's stated explicitly anywhere to do that but it's always made sense to me.
Try increasing your Object Level of Detail. 150 seems to work best for me at most payware airports. There’s a great comment on Airnot’s RUclips video about MSFS settings which explains OLOD in detail. That is the culprit for most of the stutters you’re seeing. Sounds counter intuitive but increasing it should help eliminate a large part of those stutters. With your system you could possible push it to 200. You’ll be surprised at how much smoother your sim is. Keep your TLOD at whatever you usually keep it to. Also, when using AutoFPS mod, don’t use it to change OLOD. Keep that constant at 150 or 200. Also DX12 seems to work a bit better for me in terms of stuttering. Also do you have photogrammetry on?
Agree completely with you, in theory, keeping the OLOD above 150 should in theory load in the detail like gates, workers, vehicles, taxiway signs when coming in for approach before you get to that critical stage of the final 200-300 feet, however I still find I get the stuttering even with the OLOD set to 150 or 200. I have run that test because in theory your idea SHOULD work, but in practice I still got the stuttering when coming into some airports and I could visually see it coincided with the popping of taxi way signs, gates, or landside cars. I believe there was one instance coming into Newark, where I saw a much smoother rendering of the objects, gradual rather than popping, when I had the OLOD set to a higher number, but it doesn't work in every scenario.
This is why I love XP so much. First of all 3rd party airports usually work pretty well. And secondly default airports are so good that you actually don’t need 3rd party. You always get a consistent performance / output. 60 FPS capped with V-Sync buttery smooth. Love it. Just did a 5 hours flight from KSEA to KMIA in MSFS. Buttery smooth (60 FPS V-Sync) from take off to landing. Perfect experience and very happy with my new 7800x3D that is feeding my 4080 super. Then suddenly at 500ft stutters and low FPS. Almost cried…😅 maybe it was Active Sky? Maybe Latin VFR? Maybe DX12? Maybe the rolling cache? Maybe NVIDIA cache? Gaming mode on? Exclusions added? High power settings? Is the new Nvidia driver? NVIDIA settings? Re-sizable bar? Hyperthreading off? Bla bla bla And that’s the problem with MSFS. It’s hard to find the root cause. You get frustrated and you spend more time on trying to find the issue or on optimizing the sim and your PC gets spammed with 10 Microsoft gaming apps and language experience packages that you would otherwise delete if you would not use MSFS…😂
If it happened at 500ft it was most likely the scenery loading in issue I outline in the video. I've been periodically opening up my XP12 installation every few weeks to check the beta, but I am do accustomed to how the cameras move and feel now in MSFS, the way the click spots behave and all the weird intangible stuff you get used to with a platform... I really can't go back to XP12 now. I flew XP11 for 3 years and loved the physics , and I agree 100% their default airports look incredible now in XP12, but unless MSFS ceases to exist, I don't see myself returning to XP anytime soon. I think MSFS sees their default airports as a big shortcoming as well as airport environments and will definitely bring something to the table with MSFS2024 since XP12 default airports look and feel alive. Funny enough the thing I miss most about XP vs MSFS is car traffic. The cars you pass over on final in XP give an excellent relative scale to how fast you're moving above the ground on short final and MSFS road traffic is seriously lacking in this regard, so much so that I just turned road traffic off in MSFS. Anyway, happy simming to you on XP12. I am rooting for Austin and the team to keep innovating.
@@CaptainChairbus I totally understand your approach and I would love to stick with just one sim too. But both sims are great and have something the other one don’t has so I am switching frequently…downside is you start to compare which can be an energy taker…
If you want performance for your flights, cmon on over to P3D where non of these issues exist because of the sim. You can get P3D to look about 85% what MFS is and still enjoy fidelity in the aircraft with even more capabilities than they have in MFS. Good to enjoy with and not have any issues or updates ruining it for you.
P3D can look very good with mods and a learning curve of experience just like X-plane, but I'm sticking with MSFS. MSFS can be quite immersive right out of the box and with all the P3D devs moving over to MSFS with their aircraft and scenery, the future looks brighter on the MSFS platform to me personally. I'm glad you're getting enjoyment out of P3D as your sim as choice, though!
Simmers Always decide what the future will hold OR NOT HOLD Then, 120FPS, THERE YOU ALREADY LOST ME. I sim at a locked 30 FPS. NO ISSUES AND NO STUTTERS. AND it IS enough To think that people spend money on a GPU that can buy you a small car. Then, we see many content creators who sim with no stutters. Why this only happens with certain PCs is truly a mystery Lots of posts daily is all about FPS. This is not COD. FPS chasing takes away many hours of simming enjoyment
It seems like there is a big misconception in the Flight Simulator world that lowering FPS creates smoother game play. This is a flat out lie, and I did the testing since I too believed this myth. I capped my frames using NVCP and RTSS at 30, 45 and 60 FPS, and got the exact same stutters at the exact same spots in the sim where I got the stutters with my frames capped at 90 FPS and uncapped. The issue is with the way the scenery is loading into the sim, not the overhead of the GPU that generates the frames. Worth checking the video more in depth...ruclips.net/video/gpvU1elcWqk/видео.html
The eye can certainly tell, it may be harder to tell depending on what type and size of monitor in use, but everyone is different. I've talked to gamers who can tell the difference between 144 fps and 240 fps first person shooter style games. Me personally, my cutoff for where my eyes can't tell is around 90FPS. Now, having said that, it seems like there is a big misconception in the Flight Simulator world that lowering FPS creates smoother game play. This is a flat out lie, and I did the testing since I too believed this myth. I capped my frames using NVCP and RTSS at 30, 45 and 60 FPS, and got the exact same stutters at the exact same spots in the sim where I got the stutters with my frames capped at 90 FPS and uncapped. The issue is with the way the scenery is loading into the sim, not the overhead of the GPU that generates the frames.
ASOBO destroyed their own game. It has gotten worse and worse and worse. I have given up on 2020, and unfortunately I don’t think 2024 will be better. Awful developer.
I'm cautiously optimistic, but I've worked in the software space for 9 years and what I find so surprising is that most developers are unaware of the bugs in their own software because they don't really use the software, they just build it. My hope is to bring it to their attention what exactly is going on with the scenery load-ins so we can help them test and fix it.
It seems like there is a big misconception in the Flight Simulator world that lowering FPS creates smoother game play. This is a flat out lie, and I did the testing since I too believed this myth. I capped my frames using NVCP and RTSS at 30, 45 and 60 FPS, and got the exact same stutters at the exact same spots in the sim where I got the stutters with my frames capped at 90 FPS and uncapped. The issue is with the way the scenery is loading into the sim, not the overhead of the GPU that generates the frames. If you're computer is incapable of reaching 30 or 60 FPS, this may result in performance stutters, but this video is discussing scenery loading stutters which is caused by 3rd party add ons loading into the sim. Worth checking the video more in depth...ruclips.net/video/gpvU1elcWqk/видео.html
TBH the humblebragging about how much money you burnt on a video game and the constant shots advertising how smooth your landings are diminish any sympathy we might have for you .
The reason I list my hardware is because the number one question people ask when trying to troubleshoot a performance issue is “what is your hardware” so I listed my hardware. It’s not a sin to mention your hardware in a video about performance. It’s also not a sin to be financially secure. I won’t apologize because you’re offended that some people can afford top of the line hardware to enjoy their hobby. The shorts if you watch them also have some stutters in them, but the times where I have the really horrible stutters I don’t even bother posting because nobody wants to see a landing with huge pauses in the middle.
@@CaptainChairbus I was talking about the amount you spent on add on software rather than the hardware, but whatever. Nobody wants to see a landing with your fpm in it either.
@@barthvapour Definitely not going to apologize for financially supporting the great developers who make this hobby great. And I'm definitely going to make way more videos of landings with the landing rate. Appreciate you stopping by and checking out my videos, wish you the best brother
@@CaptainChairbus the great developers who make this hobby great are the same developers you are blaming for causing stutters in your game by using ridiculous levels of detail.
@@barthvapour The video did not blame, it offered explanations for stuttering and offered possible solutions to the problems. This is called constructive feedback. The video also created great dialogues in the comments from hundreds of users and developers trying to find solutions. The developers are great and do a fantastic job of bringing the simulator to life with detailed add-ons. The developers add great value to the sim community unlike your comments which have added zero value whatsoever to the conversation; unless you want to “humble brag” about your portfolio of incredible flight sim add-ons you have built for the sim and have a solution to the stutters… appreciate you coming back to the video to comment so the video gets more exposure and attracts viewers who want to add value to the conversation! Wish you the best brother!
Why would anyone spend $5000 on addons for a flight simulator in the first place, especially airports? I use my flight simulator for flying - I don't spend a lot of time wandering around airports. I don't get the point.
I like GSX but sadly when their ground equipment loads into the airport with a GSX profile I think it is contributing to the stuttering on short finals. Also you save years of your life not waiting for the sim to load when it is removed
To see the LOD problem with the scenery that causes stutters, turn on Developer Mode (General Options/Developers/On). From the new window menu bar, drop down Debug and tick Debug Model LODs. In the tool window that pops up, tick LOD face count and Display name in addition to the default LOD size. For each model in view you will see the following:
(Name of the creator), LOD[0,3], the current screen size of that model and the count of faces that need to be drawn to display it.
Most airports will be very cluttered, so you can restrict the display to a particular group by typing in a few letters of the desired object's name - such as part of the creator's company name or whatever. Most 3rd party developers precede their object names with the company name short form (also tick "Use short name").
You'll find that most of the "stutter-generators" show as LOD[0,0] meaning there is only one Level of Detail model available - usually an extremely detailed model. LOD[0,3] is the most detailed of four levels of detail (numbered from 0 as are most computer indices). The screen size is the percent of the vertical size of your screen that a sphere encompassing the model takes up. 100 means that the model is currently taking up 100% of your vertical screen. This number can to to 999%, and the object disappears when it is less than about 1%.
I've dumped lots of freeware and payware on general principles when I see only one LOD for a model. Think a little and you will see why taking off past the main terminal that has only one LOD causes stutters. Once you pull away from the object even 50 feet, you do not need a high level of detail. Think about it.
IMHO a terminal filled with high face count empty waiting area chairs is just silly! A zillion people milling about has nothing to do with hand-flying an ILS approach in a storm.
Thank you very, very much for this video.
Wow thank you for sharing your insights, I will definitely take a look into this in the developer mode. I have never dug that deep into the issue and I was only touching on my visual observations, but it seems like my intuition was pointing to the issue you very eloquently outlined here. I wonder if there are any developers that would be willing to make a tool (Similar to AutoFPS) that limits at the global level, how many of these objects can load, kind of like putting a governor on an engine, so that when approaching these objects, they just don't load into the sim if over a certain limit of the parameters you're outlining here. Great insights! If anybody reads this and wants to discuss developing a possible solution, I'd be happy to help out in anyway I can!
I don't know why this is skipped by so many developers. It's not a hard thing to create 2-3 separate versions with a lower and lower polygon amount. Blender can even do this automatically for you with a decent result.
Another error some developers do is to add to much details in to areas that no one will see. I often try to identify "hotspots" that you often see out from the plane while standing still, taxing, or landing/taking off.
Then it could be a good idea to add some detail to known areas of the airport that people will look at when they first bought the airport and use the free camera to move around.
Things that aren't in those areas can be much simpler.
Many developers these days make them guilty of too much detail in their scenery. Like interior features which in my opinion we don't really need.
Details isn't the problem, scenery developers not being compliant with LOD guidelines outlined in the MSFS SDK is the problem. You can have interiors modelled, hell you can have an extreme level of detail but if you don't have any LODs then it'll perform terribly.
I agree with you here, I think there are some guidelines that are being ignored to save labor time and overall profitability for the developers. They essentially need to make 3-4 sets of the same textures for every single LOD which triples the time it takes to get a scenery to market. Not very economically viable to make an extremely well optimized scenery that doesn't cause stutters.
Actually most devs really are at fault themselves here. The amount of sceneries I see that just have needlessly huge textures is ridicoulous. And then also a lot of the time sooo many texture files, which all adds up to gigantic packages. I mean how many sceneries now adays come in at file sizes beyond 3 or 4GB? No wonder the sim is stuttering if all that needs to loaded at once... Even with the improvements of SU15, which certainly helped, the problem is still very much felt.
Which is kinda sad about all this, that most of the time these huge texture are really not needed. Sure put a 4K or 8K texture in there for the ground that stretches across the whole field, thats fine. But putting these texture on stuff that you never really see up close from the cockpit is really counterproductive. The silliest part of that I have seen was a 8K texture used for a single person in the terminal. Really just throwing away performance for no reason.
@@dadriel Great input, I haven't really dug into the files like you have but this makes a lot of sense. Thanks for taking the time to chime in.
Im so sick of airports making landings or low alt overflys impossible, forget Xbox! Payware airports on xbox marketplace should be illegal
Don't use rolling cache. The rolling cache is prone to corruption and needs to recycle all too often. Another one is the various cache and shader files. Deleting them regularly also helps a lot.
He mentioned that he'd tried all that. I have too. It doesn't fix it
Me too
Something they might be doing (i do develop MSFS scenery) is they might be using a set number for LODs distance on all models, so instead of each piece of scenery or building changing LOD at different distances to make the transition smooth absolutely everything is loading a higher LOD at the same time as you approach.
At 17:00 you said the most crucial part.. the way how they use msfs.... e.g. performance degration over time.... i cant proof it, but my msfs is running for about 10hrs a day ... i fly several legs without leaving msfs .... at the 3rd latest at the 4th leg msfs starts geeeting more lggyish .... asobo said they have pc' running for hours to check the issue.... but a running pc is not problem... it starts after several takeoffs and landing within the same sesssion....
Yes you have a unique use-case that the testers probably never encounter. I did hear in the last dev stream that Sebastian, the lead of Asobo, was trying to create those long sector stutters you describe, but said he didn't really see any issues. He outlined how he was running 2 instances, overnight on long hauls and landing the planes when he got back to the office in the morning. I doubt he was using payware planes and scenery but they were seriously looking into the issue you are having. My average flight is only 45-55 minutes and I usually restart the sim if I do another flight so I haven't seen the bug you are experiencing.
Terrific video. Absolutely, 100% true on all points. Newark is the biggest stutter offender. Also, you didn't test this, but FSLTL and similar injector add ons worsen this phenomenon during the last 300 feet on short final.
Good point. I have FSLTL installed but don’t use it as an injector. I think it probably falls under the umbrella of objects loading in as you get closer to the airport so I can imagine it only makes things worse for stuttering.
everyone on the forums should see this video, I dont know how many threads Ive seen related to this
I have been having this problem ever since I got MSFS early last year. For me, my standard "test flight" to see how good my system is, is to fly from London City to Heathrow in the Fenix A320. I have the iniBuilds EGLL and the Orbx EGLC. I basically never get the stutter on take off, but I do get them on approach/landing, however I don't get them at the freeware Gatwick. Last year I bought a GTX 4080 graphic card and I thought that would fix everything, but it didn't. I, like you, tried turning all the settings down, clearing cache, using Auto FPS, turning AI traffic off and all the rest. Nothing worked. Recently on the MSFS Developer live stream I asked them about this and they said "the memory optimisation in sim update 15 will fix this". I downloaded the update on Friday and in my testing I would say while there's no FPS difference, the stuttering has been reduced a bit. I then updated to the latest iniBuilds EGLL version 3.1.0, which is supposed to include optimisation improvements. Again, I would say there was a slight improvement. I am now at the point where I get one big stutter over the top of the city of London, then I get a few very tiny stutters high on approach (barely noticable), and I get one more medium sized pause at about 300ft. It's not perfect, but it's just about playable now. I really hope they keep working on this, but I'm fed up of waiting for it to be fixed, and I think now it's just about good enough for me to do flights into Heathrow.
Thanks for sharing, I have a BMI flight I did into EGLL and upon reviewing it I was getting a lot of stutters right near the concorde and over the terminal as I did a go-around. I think it's something we'll have to live with for quite a long time if we want to use payware scenery. From what I gather after reading through comments, is many of the add-on scenery developers ignore the SDK and make textures and objects load in , in a way that creates the stutters as you approach the airport. It's good to see Inibuilds continuously work on optimizing their marque airports, but I'm afraid they have so many airports and a limited amount of developers to go back and make improvements that could lead to a stutter free experience. Fingers crossed that MSFS2024 addresses some of these load-in issues but I am skeptical.
@@CaptainChairbus Well don't forget that iniBuilds is a publisher as well as a developer so they only actually make a small percentage of the total amount of airports available to buy from them. When you said you noticed that iniBuilds is one of the worst offenders were you talking about airports specifically developed by them in house? I definitely need to do a bit of testing to figure out if I can see any patterns.
@@mdhazeldine Yes I was talking about airports specifically developed by them, but I'm probably biased because I fly into their airports often versus some airports I have from other developers I don't fly into as often. But what is amazing, is it has nothing to do with the size or scope of the scenery. I was watching one of my favorite streamers the other day fly into a bush strip with cows and tents, and the scenery there caused a massive stutter that wrecked his landing. So it seems like certain objects loading in cause these stutters. He is also running a 4090 and 13900k system so should be able to handle a dirt strip. I timestamped the landing here: ruclips.net/video/DTF5j0Ftwc8/видео.html
👍🏾. Experienced the same issue no matter how many resets with the sim. Word for word I’ve matched the same problem.
Well explained. Let's hope your video catches the powers that be attention. This issue Needs to be addressed and resolved!
I get this all the time. What I do is dump all my cache files and then use add on linker to empty my community folder and fly for a while in Vanilla MSFS. Not I plan my flights before I get in the sim and only activate the appropriate scenery and for the most part I have cut those stutters down. Also one crazy thing that seems to have helped is I log into my VPN before I start the sim. I am convinced that many providers throttle MSFS servers so when I use my VPN, the sim just seems a lot smoother and with less stutters.
I also regularly clear all the DX, GL caches and have tried emptying the community folder except the airports I play to fly into and arrive at. While the loading times are greatly reduced, the approach stutters still occur depending on the airports I fly into. Been flying with no payware scenery for 5 days and haven't had a single stutter.
@@CaptainChairbus Can you name the absolute WORST offenders for Payware Airports? I will get them and attempt to replicate your results on my system and see what happens.
@@Bellthorian I like to use DD Newark and Inibuilds EGLL and KJFK for testing, I can reliably get stutters when approaching these airports. I've been surprised often at even small airports with very little scenery, the way it loads in can cause huge stutters on approach. This clip is a good example of a streamer flying into a bush strip with custom scenery in a light aircraft. He is on 4090 with 13900k ruclips.net/video/DTF5j0Ftwc8/видео.html
@@CaptainChairbus ROFLMAO, I have seen that clip. It reminds me of when I was flying with OnAir, my virtual airliner and it stuttered so bad about 100 feet off the deck and I crashed, throwing away like three hours of flight time. I was SOOOOO mad. I am going to load up those airports and let you know how they act on my system. I have the Ryzen 5800X3d, 64 Gig of ram and a 4090.
@@CaptainChairbus I was doing some research and apparantly INI builds KJFK has issues with the default airport and they recommend these fixes
Note: To remove various objects on the airport, go to “inibuilds-airport-kjfk-new-york\Scenery\airport-kjfk-newyork\kjfk-scene” and rename the following files:
• Terminals - People: kjfk-scene-people.bgl -> kjfk-scene-people.disabled
• Landside Cars: kjfk-scene-cars.bgl -> kjfk-scene-cars.disabled
• Ground Clutter: kjfk-scene-gen_clutter.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gen_clutter.disabled
• Vegetation: kjfk-scene-veg.bgl -> kjfk-scene-veg.disabled
• Animated Airtrain: kjfk-scene-airtrain.bgl -> kjfk-scene-airtrain.disabled
• Static Aircraft: kjfk-scene-statics.bgl -> kjfk-scene-statics.disabled
• Construction Clutter: kjfk-scene-const_clutter.bgl -> kjfk-scene-const_clutter.disabled
• GSE - General: kjfk-scene-gse.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gse.disabled
• GSE - Tugs & Tows: kjfk-scene-gse-tugstows.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gse-tugstows.disabled
• GSE - Snow Equipment: kjfk-scene-gse-snow.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gse-snow.disabled
• GSE - Cargo: kjfk-scene-gse-cargo.bgl -> kjfk-scene-gse-cargo.disabled
Note: To remove Terminals - Detailed interiors, rename the following files:
• inibuilds-airport-kjfk-new-york\Scenery\airport-kjfk-newyork\kjfk-modellib\kjfk-modellib-termPC.bgl -> kjfk-modellib-termPC.disabled
• inibuilds-airport-kjfk-new-york\Scenery\airport-kjfk-newyork\kjfk-modellib\kjfk-modellib-termXB.disabled -> kjfk-modellib-termXB.bgl
Have you tried these fixes?
Good video but people have to understand the key component in a gaming rig or laptop is the processor. The is the engine of it all. When you run payware, your running files not native to the scenery msfs has in the sim. When your GPU and memory are pulling from different application and the payware scenery and the aircraft and the voice inside 1 mile, it is taxing your processor like crazy. A rig must have a consistent range of hardware. Meaning just cause you have a 4 cylinder engine in a Corvette doesn't mean it will be just as fast. Your want high end then 4090 with i9 or razen 9 amd with 32 gb to 64gb of ram. 4090 in and i5 you want get the top proformance. It will be a bit better but not top. Add-ons are resource consuming. Work with your settings.
I think part of the issue with MSFS is it has the 1 core doing the aerodynamics, physics, scenery loading and rendering all on the one core. I'm curious to see what performance gains can be made by offloading onto multiple cores as they promise in MSFS2024
I realised there was stutters being caused by poorly configured add ons when I would rename the community folder when installing a sim update, so no add ons, lovely and smooth no stutters .
Yes incredibely smooth sim without the add-on airports. Been flying with empty community folder for 6 days and have no stutters.
Thank you for supporting the YU-ANI livery!
What about the new Sim Update. I'm not able to test it till now. But Microsoft was telling addressing exact this issues in Sim Update 15!? Any results?
There is no difference between SU14 and SU15 with the way payware scenery is loaded into the sim so the stutters still occur.
I used to have to optimise Free and Payware in FSX and I still have to do it in MSFS. Some developers don't follow the SDK, maybe they made products for FSX and continue to use the same techniques for MSFS 'just because it's how they work'. Laziness is never an excuse but most of the developers don't fly like we do, or they might spot the issues. Just imagine if developers started following the SDK and optimising their products. Not all are at fault but many could deliver better optimised products that cause less crashes and/or stutters.
Interesting, I never dug into the actual scenery files themselves, do you mind sharing what you do to optimize their sceneries? Are you downscaling textures, etc? Thanks
@@CaptainChairbus I don't edit BGLs as they are normally protected. I do edit textures as required. 4k is more than enough. 2k normally just fine. I have a 4090 but the formatting will affect the stutters somewhat, which are still there in SU15 and will be in MS2024 most likely.
The only stutter i have experienced so far is using GSX Pro with passengers. Maybe you need to run it on high end SSD
Hoping that Developers take note of this excellent practically detailed video! Thank you.
I agree with what you say and *love* your philosophy about Quality First and not money.
I would gladly join in for the free testing of aircraft / scenery / airport -- I routinely find spots where the stutters are so bad that the screen freezes for over 10 seconds - these are always in same spots, so it cannot be GPU settings or Windows 10 settings.
A good example of those freezing spots (always the same spots) are in Rio de Janeiro for example or near Nice Airport in France.
Adding mods will exacerbate the fault is already there on first / minimal install with empty community folder.
I am a professional developer in a different industry but have been flying on MSFS 2020 since 2021 - I have accumulated over 3300 hours of flight.
I would also do the testing for no financial profit but for contributing to the improvement of MSFS 2020.
The approach stutters are primarily caused by 'services' on the ground loading in. It's not so much of a fix but changing 'Services' to 'OFFServices' in the Msfs data folder fixed most of my approach problems. The downsides are, you'll remove the in game standard pushback and parking guidance after landing.
Is that different than turning all Airport Life to zero on the sliders in sim. I don't have any airport life when I do my testing, still seems main culprit is always the airport scenery loading in.
I have a RTX 2060 on my mid-2020 PC and don't have this problem.
This is the funniest FS video I have ever seen. Thanks!
And I asked Asobo to make Pyreegue share their insider secrets for optimization. They ignored me. And that hurts the ENTIRE community! Pyreegue and Gaya know because they work closely with Asobo.
I have been increasingly flying vanilla scenery xp12 for a few months for the same reason, and while airport buildings dont look nearly as good as payware they do the job, and my brain forgets the second I release parking brake, not to say smootly rotating and flaring.
I think it's a bit easier in XP12 because their default airports look quite decent in my opinion. They also have nice vehicles and services driving around which make the airfield seem alive. I'm hoping Asobo really puts a lot of time into creating a similar default environment into MSFS2024 because it is one of the weak areas that X-Plane excels in.
@@CaptainChairbus I really hope your take on this subject will resonate on simmers and developers alike. I love several msfs aspects, specially third party complex airplanes. But I would exchange more eyecandy on msfs2024 for a stutter free experience without a doubt.
Turn on Auto_FPS just as you're on final (or taxiing out / departure) **as the stutters occur** - stuttering disappears completely... for a moment. What is Auto_FPS doing that eliminates stuttering (momentarily) and why does the stuttering start again? There's your answer. The dev needs to investigate that. ETA: For me, there is no apparent degradation of TLOD or OLOD during this stutter-free period.
cause thats the answer to the issue. AutoFPS fixes the stutter by dynamically changing the TLOD and OLOD while u ascending or descending the plane. Where right now with MSFS default, having TLOD at 200 will be 200 regardless if ur in the ground or in the air
@@N00bPr0ducti0n nope, that’s not it. The stutters cease as the app is loading up and connecting to the sim and at that point does not have any influence on the settings.
Don't say that too loud. Microsoft spanked me for mentioning autofps. As it rewrites memory addresses and unapproved for use in the sim. And as our op said, autofps doesn't really help much on approach and take off or help the underlying issue of the scenery developer's lod settings embedded in the scenery design. Every object could be set at lod0 and it would be like a switch turned on. Not really a great idea, and a huge strain. Like the opposite of setting different lod levels of aircraft parts. Like landing gear at lod0 and wings at lod1. I was wondering why ai aircraft float at the ramp. Lol
@@casstephens3124 ya I read his comment wrong or misinterpreted. And ya i also got shit on by Microsoft for talking about framegen mod and auto fps🤣. Absolute clowns🤡
Y'aaaaaa.. I just tried a Cincinnati to DTW. with AutoFPS off, and all my addon Scenery off. that includes I love VFR, birds, Pretty much the only thing running in SIM was GSX. Not a single stutter. perfect flight with LOD set at 100, both Terrain and Objects. But then again, The DTW Textures didnt load until I was about 150 feet away. LOL.
Good video, thank you. Stumbled upon this as one of the many "headless chickens" !! trying to reduce stutters or micro pauses. I will not be upgrading my PC until after MSFS 2024. I will be curious if Asobo can really make a new flight sim that has none of these micro pauses, stutters. I will hold my breath on that one !!. Currently I use my good ol' trusty steam-punk GPU, yes the ubiquitous RTX 2080Ti, (famous for its launch in 2018 at a ridiculous price !). It has an overclock and has served me very well from FSX to this current edition of MSFS 2020. I ususally cap my frames to 35FPS in Nvidia control panel. In the sim I set DX11, TAA, with my screen resolution for Ultrawide mpnitor 3440x1440. TLOD at 100, OLOD 95. I turn traffic down. And reduce ships, boats, vehicles down to a lower setting. Not really interested in those as I am flying. They may add to the ground ambience etc, but I prefer a smooth Sim. So I keep flying the same flight for hours if not days !! yup trying to iron out exactly what and where and why I get these micro pauses in the Sim. I fly from Milford sound in New Zealand to Christchurch RWY 02, in my fav Chancellor 414 from FlySimware, ( an excellent addon). Currently on a good Nvidia driver 552.44, very stable. I tried 555.85, was ok but 555.99, hmmm not good ! for me at least. So I am not a software eng, so forgive me if I am speaking complete bxxllocxks !, but not only do these over extravagant airports with a crazy amount of detail cause problems, its also the nature of how the Sim is built, at least for MSFS 2020. My understanding is that the world is a huge mosaic, with "tiles" like jig-saw puzzle pieces. You fly one one tile to the next, the system loads the next tile and cache's it ahead of the one you are in. I flew this same flight plan for hours on end. From Milford Sound to Christchurch RWY 2. ( Yes I believe Christchurch is hand crafted by Asobo after a previous world update ) And at a way point "Hodde" en route to Christchurch I get the same micro pause in the Sim. The pause lasts for about half a second. It always happens at this point. I suspect that at this point, is the so called "gap" ,between my previous "tile" and the next "tile", the "Tile" that has Christchurch airport and surrounding suburban small townships. The pause occurs as the system is trying to load in this more detailed "tile". Now, the "tile" size may be 50 sq miles less, or more, I dont know. But I suspect that is why I get that pause in the Sim. Because the Christchurch area "tile" contains the airport and suburban town, villages etc and fields, lakes. The pause happens exactly at the same point every time. I tried DLSS, DLAA, TAA DX12(beta) and the usual changes in the NVidia control panel. I also use software such as MSF2020_AutoFPS, Process Lasso to set my sim at high priority. For me this software does help, its not snake oil or placebo. So no matter what I do via settings in the Sim or Nvidai control panel that pause occurs every time at that location. I can reduce it slightly, and I did by going back to DX11 and TAA. And also by capping my FPS in Nvidia control panel to 35FPS. But the pause is ALWAYS there. I suspect if I chose another world area it will occur again. I have to add that as if by some luck there are the occasional world geographies where it does not occur. However, a slight pause DOES occur at most large airports 5 miles befor landing, EVERY TIME !! sadly. The knack, so to speak is to make your own adjustments to reduce it. So to end all my waffle here !!, I may go and upgrade my PC for a complete new system, but not yet, (not much change out of £4000 pounds !! dollars !! or whatever !!.) New hardware, CPU and GPU and DDR5 memory etc will undoubtedly help. Thats fine I do understand that, and speaking seriously thats where new hardware can have a big affect in performance. But I am holding back until I see what MSFS 2024 offers in the way of better optimisation. And of course by end of 2024 Nvidia will launch the 50 series GPU's. But thats another story !!. Thank you for insights to a common problem that most flight Sim enthusiasts encounter. Whether on a Mid Tier system or High End system. Ohh, and I subscribed to your channel, as hoping for more helpful information to flight sim common issues. Prologue : I am not convinced that SU 15 has done much for optimisation. Asobo should be applauded for many of the changes within SU 15, but optimisation ?, not so sure.
Im with you. I, too, am not convinced 2024 with magically fix the stutter issues. I have approx 200 custom airports, and have noticed the load times and general reduction in performance. Im running a 4070, and still face performance issues. I fly the fenix a320 and inibuilds a300 most of the time.
Yes, with software, hope isn't a good strategy, I made the video to get our voices heard by the developers and help them find a solution that works for us so we can enjoy stutter free approaches into the airports we buy.
Aerosoft CRJ all the way for me I love the realism to preformance ratio and the ease of use. A300 is good for same reasons
@@ReidsAviation Nice, I haven't bought the CRJ yet, I heard the developer is working on a big update. I think the A300 and Fenix tend to perform pretty smooth because they do most of their avionics on the GPU rather than the CPU.
@@ReidsAviation …..yes, i like the crj as well. But I spend 95% of my time in the fenix a320 and the inibuilds a300. GA aircraft I really like the tbm 850, but rarely fly it.
@@CaptainChairbus I do find the a320 to be a little glitchy but last time I flew it I flew to Inibuilds DTW so it might not have been the a320s fault
Recording software on approach and take off, may cause additional load on system resources? Since the recording software is not Asobo its 3rd party. Just my thoughts.
In my testing, I tested with and without recording. Made no difference in my testing. Last 2 flights I have done on VATSIM with recording and no 3rd party airports has been butter smooth with no stutters! Good news but I miss my 3rd party airports!
Yes yes yes. Your analysis is 100 percent correct. I have too faced this and can confirm. I removed all the 3rd party airports and my sim is absolutely butter smooth. This is really disgusting because 3rd party addon devs are not bothered about stutters. Even some bigger name devs airports are stuttering. I have stopped adding any 3rd party airports almost completely.
Has Sim Update 15 improved this problem, its memory handling is supposed to be improved and decreasing stutters. Does this improvement work on non-Asobo airports?
SU15 made no difference for me. I experienced the same Stutters on payware in SU15 and SU14 at the same spots.
Great video, at last i don't feel alone. I use varjo aero with 4090 and it's doing my head in
The approach hang is way more common on big vatsim events due to the vast number of planes. Inibuilds make super super detailed sceneries that initially run like garbage hence the bad fps but they slowly improve it over time so that definitely means performance can be improved for the scenery devs' end. One thing try to do remove static planes that are present in the scenery itself, this helps but I forget to do this step like 80% of the time as it requrires changing the name of some files in the scenery.
Approach Hang is a good term, that is where it most often occurs and can be pretty severe. I don't think any of my Inibuild sceneries have static aircraft other than KLAX which I opted to remove and I always try to remove the static if possible on my sceneries. I found I don't get any performance hits on VATSIM events after I downscaled all the textures on FSLTL Model matching down to 2K.
Saw this video after last night experiencing massive stuttering at Inibuilds Luton airport just while taxiing - we are talking stutters of 5-8 seconds !!! I'm on the beta of MSFS and since the beta is more or less final release version I am not confident this will be fixed ever for MSFS 2020 - hopefully it will be in 2024
Thanks for sharing your experience! I can concur I also experience longggg stutters on the ground and on approach to many Inibuilds sceneries. I have had poor performance like you describe at their new London Luton. I had them on SU14 and the SU15 Beta and I agree, this sadly will not be addressed in FS2020, so we are most likely in for another 4-6 months minimum of stutters if using heavy payware scenery.
I've got a couple airports that I was *really* excited to finally get.
Yet, they're absolutely HORRIBLE on performance because.......the dev decided to use Asobo default aircraft as Static Traffic around the airport.
That's one of the biggest things that cause issues from my experience.
Devs like UK2000SCENERY have their own asset library and others use hollow assets and that what more devs should be doing.
I doubt Asobo knows how to prevent the stutters. The Standard Edition's "Köln/Bonn" (EDDK) Airport is one of the worst offenders when it comes to stutters on landing.
I haven't tested that particular scenery but the Aerosoft Payware Koln was one of my best performing sceneries before I decided to uninstall all my payware.
The MS Game bar can cause the sim to stutter. i had this problem and all i did was uninstall the MS / XBOX Game Bar and that fixed the problem for me. i never had to uninstall addons
Yes this is something I have tested, unfortunately it did not resolve the scenery loading stutter issue for me but happy to hear it got rid of your stutters.
Inibuilds DTW is unplayable because of these issues. I am running a 4060 LP and a I9 13700k with 32 gigs DDR4
Thanks for confirming the issue, hopefully the developers will see this and we can get some sort of working solution!
@@CaptainChairbus Hopefully. The honolulu airport works alright though, although I had some issues where my screen went completely black, but if I clicked my other monitor it worked, but when I clicked the sim monitor again it went black
Same setup and no stuttering issues.
Posted on MSFS Forums
The problem is the unnecessary detailed interior scenery thar your system has to render even though no one will ever see it 99% of the time
great video.....now imagine that someone like me who is running a Xbox S is going through....plus....its gotten worst after SU 15. So......MSFS 24 will be the fix? I dont think so!
Yea it’s probably not looking great for the XBOX crowd.
@@CaptainChairbus I doubted that my old PC could handle 2020 so opted for a Series X for now while saving for better PC, Of course I encounter stutters too, and assumed that it had to due with this limited machine plus payware airports, aircraft, sceneries, and hoped acquiring a high end PC like the one described in this video would fix the issue. I'm sorry to see that may not be the case, but intend to make the switch by the end of the year and experiment with which 3rd party content triggers the issues most.
Thank you for raising the issue in a way that MS/Aobo/Developers should be able to see the problem.
RX6800XT, medium settings, VR Reverb G2, almost always on Vatsim with Navigraph panel and VSR open (in VR). I hardly get stutters. I fly in Europe.
I definitely have better luck flying in Europe, the Addon developers seem to prioritize airports in EU, particularly the German fields. I rarely get stutters when flying into popular airports in Germany.
Did you check the power window mode? I have a 4070 and have actually no problem at all
I use traffic on high, Pacx and a bunch of things. No problem at all for me.
@@antoniomaruge8218 Can you elaborate, what is the power window mode? I do have MSFS set to high performance mode in windows if that is what you mean.
@@CaptainChairbushe’s lying power management does not affect your performance
He means your Power plan in the control panel
Im pretty sure they changed how stuff loads on xbox, and that screwed PC users who have stuff on ultra...
Yes I think that happened around SU9 and things haven't really been the same since then.
My question is: What does 'pre-rendering' actually do? Are they caching data in VRAM, or DRAM, or even on a physical disk? I assume the amount of pre-rendered data is proportional to the TLOD setting, i.e. a TLOD of 400 would need to pre-render a much larger amount of data, and users with less powerful systems (Xbox, for example) simply wouldn't have the VRAM or DRAM to cache it all out to, say, 5 miles. Limiting TLOD would of course mean much less data gets cached, and then your theory makes sense. Less area pre-rendered = stutters, as the program tries to keep up with areas it once rendered, but lost the cache data for.
Hopefully Microsobo is planning to use the system resources available in higher end systems like you, optimizing DRAM - and especially VRAM - usage to improve complex scenery caching. As you said, your system should be able to run at high TLOD and OOLD settings, with no fear of stutters, and reasonably high framrates, almost regardless of the complexity of the payware.
It's a very good question...I know MS/Asobo have changed the TLOD algorithms with the way scenery is loaded in several times during update cycles. I remember seeing people say they got huge degradations in performance with the way scenery was loading in around SU9 and it never quite was as good since then. I believe they changed scenery loading for XBOX users who received a benefit , but the PC version inherited the new methodology as well and it resulted in many issues.
I have been testing with higher TLOD values on approach (150+) to see if I could pre-cache the airports 5+ miles out but it didn't seem to do much in the way of eliminating the final approach stutters. I think it may have more to do with OLOD, im which the smaller objects like taxi way signs, cars, airport vehicles and gates get their permission to load in. I am going to do some more testing this week with OLOD cranked to 200 or more. I did see a difference in how some objects loaded in smoother with Inibuilds JFK and DRZEWIECKI Design Newark when I had higher OLOD values, but it still did stutter at non-ideal phases of flight.
Good information; maybe Deep Blue can run this sim without stutters.
😂
For me it was the real life traffic injected by MSFS.
You guys should be at least grateful you are able to buy those peripherals for your PC with your hard earned money just so you could run this sim in 60+ frames. Not like me who has to shrink the 4K textures of liveries just to make it run smoothly.
KEWR from Drezick (forgot their name lol) is so bad in fps when taking off and landing
Hi, many thanks for making this video, addressing an issue that is quite game braking. At least it makes the experience worse.
By the way, what tools are you using for replay and landing performance measurement?
And finally, your landings are great!
Thanks for the kind words! My favorite tool for replay is SkyDolly and I am using the built in Landing Rate Monitor for Flow made by Parallel 42.
@@CaptainChairbus Thanks for the quick answer!
Looking at your other videos and viewcounts, I think you really found your place on youtube with this new video type
Yes, it is a bit time consuming to try to troubleshoot what is going on with MSFS but it seems like the community has positively received this type of content mixed with some of my opinions. Like I say in the video, my only intention is to make the sim better and grow the hobby into the future so we can all enjoy it!
@@CaptainChairbus I am sure things will get better, I also just switched from an rtx 3050 to a 4060 so dlss 3 frame generation really made the game fun again
Software has always been ahead of the hardware. And there is no software or hardware (currently) that can handle the LOD our real world entail. Sims like X-Plane or MSFS portray the bigger picture. Whereas DCS, Arma or combat sims focus on the details, hence the former sims are able to simulate the entire world and others only a fraction of our very beautiful earth..It is going to cost us more than 1024 Exabytes or 999 Trillions to properly simulate the earth on our devices (PCs, consoles or mobi[le phone]s.)
Yes, The Flight Simulator Franchise in particular has always pushed hardware beyond what it was originally intended to do. I have now experienced the sim without my payware addons and it is running buttery smooth. It is a testament to how incredibly well MSFS runs in a vanilla sim install environment, but the issue still remains when approaching and departing from payware airports. I have to admit I have thoroughly enjoyed the sim much more than I anticipated with no payware airports, the flying is so smooth!
@@CaptainChairbus Absolutely. But Microsoft, Laminar Research, Eagle Dynamics and others (flight sim devs) cannot do it alone. Third parties devs assist with details we users enjoy and they provide options that sim devs cannot accomplish at the moment. Flight sim devs have in-cooperated rotorcraft technology on top of the evolving fixed-wing calculations or computations that they are trying to at least perfect. Flight sims and third party devs need to find a way to share optimizations as the workload (which its improvements are tangible or visible from the flight sims devs' side) in order to bring about balance. Orbx and Microsoft, Laminar Research or Eagle Dynamics have already brought about such endeavours.
Hey Man, I cannot agree More! I have similar specs (exept i run on 7800x3d) and have the same problem. I dont think it is too much to aske to exper 90-100 FPS on 5k PC
4K or even 8K textures? I have an UW 1440p...
I'm using a 4K monitor 4096 x 2160, running on DLSS Ultra Quality Setting is my preferred Anti Aliasing method. I play on 4k textures whenever offered for my planes and scenery, no need for 8K.
1) Don't use rolling cache
2) Use Addon Linker to separate your scenery into areas. I have mine as the 4 quadrants of the continental US, one for Europe, and one for "everything else."
I have no stutter issues on my 7950X3D and 4090 with this setup.
Thanks for the suggestions. I tested with rolling cache off as well as on. I typically use MSFS with the rolling cache off as my default setting.
I also use Add-on linker and separate the different regions as you suggested. I took it a few steps further and tested linking my addons from different SSDs and NVMes in my computer. My theory was that maybe the scenery is having trouble loading into the sim from certain drives. Unfortunately, that made no difference as the same sceneries stuttered at the same points while approaching and landing no matter which drive they were linked from.
Yeah man you put your finger on it well. I got a 4090, 5900X, and 64GB of RAM and similar situation to you. 2.5TB Community folder lol
Wow 2.5 TB, I think mine is like 1.4TB and I have a lot of stuff in there
@@CaptainChairbus Yeah... I might have an issue xD (as in to wanting to have most sceneries) also crap ton of liveries for all the planes and they take up a lot of space.
Oh my, that does not seem healthy! 😂 Maybe addon linker would be something for you.
This is absolutely hilarious. If you really had $5000 worth of payware scenery, maybe instead you should have spent that money on a system that can run the sim with that scenery. Ever since I upgraded, there is not a single payware airport I have found that causes stutters or low fps. And I own a little over 100 different payware airports. Some that were brutal on my performance before upgrading.
did you even watch the video? he literally has the fastest GPU available at the moment, one of the fastest cpu’s available and enough ram there wouldn’t really be much point in upgrading
@@JM-jd2bfglad you pointed that out. Because i didn’t give it a thought. Figured at the time he must not have a strong enough system. I too have a 7950x3d and 4090. Some is not right with his config. I don’t have these issues. But I have done a lot to optimize it.
Same here, very little to no probs at all
I'm running I7 9700k, rtx 2070 super 32gb 3200mhz ram and don't get any stuttering, maybe low frames at big international airports but no stutters, only fly into 3rd party scenery, this is what confuses me I have half the spec of yours and it runs fine🤷♂️
Theres a few reasons, If you're playing at very low frames the stutters could be undetectable with low hz monitor and low fps. These are the types of stutters on a 4090 13900k set up. ruclips.net/video/DTF5j0Ftwc8/видео.html
I run in safe mode, then VR, and it's super smooth, amazing.
Pretty sure it's not up to date AddIn's using older runtime libraries
Can you elaborate more on your method? You run the sim in safe mode, or actual Windows OS?
I also work out the gpu in VR. THE quest resolution is turned all the way up and with shadows and refections turned up. I don't want the graphics card sitting there with its finger up it's nose as we know the sim is cpu limited. It's what I found switching from my 3080 ti, to a 4080 super. The stutters got worse with the 4080 super unless I gave the gpu some more to do
@@CaptainChairbus more than likely running the sim in safe mode. The same thing as an empty community folder anyway
@@CaptainChairbus I thought safe mode disabled most drivers so i can't see it working without GPU drivers. Must be the sim not Windows.
Or you can just update to SU15 and things work much better. AutoFPS is a huge help as well.
Was on beta and the scenery loading still creates the stutters on SU15. Tested both SU14 and SU15.
Lol, its not your system!!! And lower setting helps, because just think what's going through your broadband router when it comes to MSFS2020. If its not Nvidia cache at fault, there timeout in MSFS2020 caused by packet drops on you home broadband, even if its fibre. Is not business grade or qos enabled for msfs2020 data packets. Over yiu broadband ther client and server positioning updates, LOD increasing at lower a Attitude and photo graphic scenary. Plus vat sim updates. I use Auto FPS to manage my issues, dialing down LOD LOT on take off and landing.
Custom scenary or airports can make things worse.
Msfs2020 needs to fix the old MSFS2020 preloading cache issues or reduce visibility distance to an aircraft, so not everything in the local area is crated around your aircraft.
I notice this on some Asobo and Third Party airports. Mainly in areas with high photogrammetry like Atlanta, or Los Angeles. A quick fix I found was to delete and rebuild your rolling cache.
Yes I have definitely tried deleting and rebuilding the cache several times however this did not yield any results with payware sceneries loading in. I'm flying with Photogrammetry and Bing streaming satellite imagery streaming, on VATSIM and getting excellent, stutter free performance, I only experience the stuttering with the payware sceneries loading in.
Finally, someone talked about this and many people in the comments haven’t yet catch on to it yet since I guess most of them only fly GA aircraft and don’t engage in High demanding area..
but make it clear these developers need to be pirated. I know that sounds extreme but this is the only solution unless you have so much money to burn. Let me show you some examples
1- inibulids : whether it’s airport or aircraft either way you’ll get a terrible experience and no matter what product or where is it on the map you would still get bad for for no reason..
Verdict : These guys should be pirated every day all day.
2- mkstudio : their sceneries are somewhat terrible, but nothing comes closer to the Montreal scenery. The airport when it released wasn’t playable at all but from what I can see, they are making some progress specially towards optimizing performance, and that shows in their latest airport LaGuardia
Verdict : buy if you have a somewhat decent hardware
3- BM World : it’s one of the most terrible dev you’ll ever encounter terrible sceneries not accurate and not optimized
Verdict : pirate them
4- Drzewiecki Design : basically inibulids doppelganger all of their scenery look great from a graphic standpoint in terms of performance. All of them are shit even the ones in remote areas do not buy at all costs
Verdict : pirate or avoid
5- aerosoft : some of their sceneries look outdated and they hit your performance so hard you cannot unnoticed it specially Brussels..
verdict : buy but be careful
There are so many I can’t go through all of them, but these are the worst
I'm going to leave this comment up even though you are encouraging people to commit an illegal crime - but I wholeheartedly disagree with you on this. The third party developers are the literal lifeblood of the Flight Simulation Community and hobby. They are incredibly talented and dedicated to making the hobby thrive and if they do not thrive financially, they will go out of business, at which point you wouldn't have any sceneries to pirate in the first place. These developers have families and employees and need to put a roof over their head so that they can continue to make sceneries for you to enjoy. If you don't enjoy their sceneries I would recommend doing something constructive like making a video showing them why you don't like it , rather than stealing from them. It is a market based economy, so if developers receive customer feedback, they can choose to either respond to the market and adapt to what we as customers want, or ignore customers and lose money in the long run due to a poor reputation. A great example of this feedback being taken is the work that Inibuilds has been doing inside their app where airports like KJFK and KLAX, they allow the customer choose low res textures, and turn off many resource heavy features like landside cars, clutter, ground equipment, and detailed interiors. It is encouraging to see developers listening to customers and the industry of MSFS scenery development is still in its infancy so we should all have some grace and patience as the sim evolves and best practices are discovered. A metaphor for what you are suggesting is if a restaurant makes food you don't like, you should be allowed to go in and eat the food without paying even though you knew the food would suck to begin with...that's called theft. If everyone did that to a restaurant, the restaurant would go out of business...we don't want that to happen to scenery developers. Rather than steal from the developers, let's rally around their businesses financially and constructively help them make the best products possible so we can enjoy many more stutter-free sceneries well into the future.
@@CaptainChairbus I mean, you created a whole video ranting about FPS and now you’re defending them I don’t understand? Anyways, you can go on the forms of these developers and see for yourself they don’t give a flying F and what we are doing to them is what they deserve..
@@slizzy418 You made it abundantly clear that you didn't watch the video since I explicitly said the FPS have absolutely nothing to do with the performance issue of stuttering at this point here: ruclips.net/video/gpvU1elcWqk/видео.html .... To you maybe the video is a rant, but if you go through the comments you will see it served it's intended purpose which was to present a constructive critique of Microsoft/Asobo and 3rd Party developers loading scenery methodology, and the other users are experiencing the same issue. When you constructively give feedback in this manner to developers, they listen and fix the problems.
@@CaptainChairbus I did watch your video to the very end and I noticed that you critiqued DD and inibulids as well as avsim.. you have a 4090 and I have a 4070 both of us complaining about performance should be an alarming matter because if people like you and me started complaining about the performance, what about the others ? The people with the 2000 and 3000 series. Can you imagine how is it hell on earth for them? Can you imagine the amount of money they spent on the sceneries? I’m sure you don’t. The developers that you mentioned have been ignoring their customers for ages way before MSFS which tells you that they don’t listen at all and I’m not talking about asobo or Microsoft I’m talking about the third-party developers the three guys you mentioned, as well as the others I mentioned are well-known within the community to have the worst performance and optimization because if they really care they should know better than this game is not optimized as it is and pushing products that does not perform properly won’t help anyone and won’t help their sales too if they care they would’ve listened, but because you are apparently living under a rock this is beyond your comprehension.. check out their forums for the love of God
@@slizzy418 This will be my final reply to this thread. I don’t see the point in arguing with somebody who believes it's morally and ethically correct to steal a product because you don’t like the quality of the product.
I am aware of the lack of communication between developers and their paying customer’s desires, that is why I made the video, to communicate to them like an adult on possible ways we can find solutions to the issues. This is how products eventually get better. It’s a process. I have also posted on their forums and seen the lack of response you mention. It is a complicated ecosystem and there may be software limitations in the current version of MSFS that is prohibiting them from making performant sceneries that you and I expect. Anyway I appreciate your feedback and we can agree to disagree on the best way to move forward and how to support the future of the hobby. Let’s hope some developers see our conversation and reach out.
Great Job!
Root cause analysis = Looking out the window :-). I think MSFS doesn't use all of our CPU cores. Maybe try setting the game up to load that scenery sooner so its not doing it at the last moment.
Yes I spent many hours testing OLOD to get the scenery to load in sooner before I arrive at the Airport. While I did see objects loading in a bit sooner than I normally see, the game play was overall more choppy with higher OLOD, and I still got the stutters as I approached the airport around 3-5 miles out and on final approach. Theoretically, if the OLOD was optimized properly it should resolve the stuttering issue but for my personal experience, it just led to choppy jittery game play, particularly when panning in the cockpit and didn't resolve the stutters.
Not being funny but have you tried without aircraft traffic? You didn’t mention testing this. Seems logical to me that as you’re flying into larger international airports, there are going to be a lot of parked aircraft that it spawns into existence when you get close. That surely causes stutters and it’s nothing to do with the third party scenery.
It's a very good question. I have all my traffic sliders set to zero and I test offline as well as on VATSIM (neither makes a difference when it comes to scenery popping of the 3rd party airports) . I also have all my airport vehicles, workers, road traffic, fauna, and sea traffic set to zero. I do not use any traffic add-ons when I am flying offline so the airports are completely empty, no static or AI aircraft.
@@CaptainChairbus Thanks for the reply. Yeah the engine is just jank and I also share your fear about v2024 not being significantly different or better in this regard. Love to be proved wrong but I feel Asobo are up Shiatsu Creek without a paddle and they are blind to a lot of common problems as they don’t ever test with other products (it’s not their concern, even though the whole ecosystem is set up for DLC content… very weird!).
@@Baracus250 Agree, my hope in the video was to bring the issue to their attention, the more voices we have giving them constructive feedback the better. I think they're unaware of some of the issues that serious simmers encounter since we are outnumbered probably 50 to 1 by users who just want to recreationally fly an FA-18 under a bridge once a month versus people who are investing into their simulator. Nothing wrong with recreationally using the sim since it is a large and important part of the economical viability for MS/Asobo, but that majority may be drowning out the voices of users who are using it for more serious simulation.
I fly with photo realistic scenery off which helps with fps and stutters beside most of the buildings have gone back to looking melted last few months and no its not my internet 150mbps upload and 1500 download.
I'm flying with Photogrammetry and Bing streaming satellite imagery streaming, on VATSIM and getting excellent, stutter free performance, I only experience the stuttering with the payware sceneries loading in.
Limit your FPS to 30 (60 with frame gen). No more stutters. You're aiming for too high FPS.
It seems like there is a big misconception in the Flight Simulator world that lowering FPS creates smoother game play. This is a flat out lie, and I did the testing since I too believed this myth. I capped my frames using NVCP and RTSS at 30, 45 and 60 FPS, and got the exact same stutters at the exact same spots in the sim where I got the stutters with my frames capped at 90 FPS and uncapped. The issue is with the way the scenery is loading into the sim, not the overhead of the GPU that generates the frames.
If you're computer is incapable of reaching 30 or 60 FPS, this may result in performance stutters, but this video is discussing scenery loading stutters which is caused by 3rd party add ons loading into the sim.
If I have time this week I would like to make a video demonstrating the same scenery stuttering at 30, 60, 90, 120 fps, all stuttering at the exact same point as the plane approaches the airport.
Worth checking the video more in depth...ruclips.net/video/gpvU1elcWqk/видео.html
@@CaptainChairbus RUclips only showed me the first sentence of your comment at first.
It's not a misconception at all, and it's not limited to sims. Limiting your FPS to what your system can achieve with 95% utilization will absolutely smooth out your frametimes in any game.
It doesn't help as much in situations when you can reach high FPS, which you can with your top of the line system. It helps in situations when you system is fully maxed out, like at ini KJFK with A310, FSLTL etc and sunrise/sunset. I'm not sure about the 7950X3D, but on a 5800X3D you can't get more than 30FPS (nonFG) in that scenario anyway.
So you want to limit your FPS to the that number, so when you do get into that situation you don't get massive frametime spikes. This also applies to other games, albeit they run at much higher FPS.
There's little reason to run over 60FPS. You really don't need any more than that for a flight sim, and it's a waste of power. I would prefer to set and forget my FPS limit instead of having to change it depending on where I'm flying.
There are diminishing returns, and I certainly wouldn't limit lower than what your system is capable of at 95% load in the most performance demanding scenario possible. Or 30FPS without framegen, or 60 with.
If I can get higher LOD at 60FPS, I'm going to priortize that over more frames, as that is more immersive than a few extra FPS.
I recommend watching some battle(non)sense videos or the Gamer's Nexus videos with Tom Petersen or the Nvidia dude.
But yeah, I concede that "no more stutters" is a bit of an over-statement, what I meant was "smoother frametimes". FWIW I basically never get stutters apart from when an airport is first loading in - that is unavoidable, as you say due to the sim.
3:30 minutes in the video and I am immediately thinking about deleting the rolling cache. I had something similar.
Ok, that said, I will continue watching.
Great video that explains the major issue the most of us are experiencing.
I hope you did share this video with the Zendesk and on the forum.
The product really needs the polishing so we can enjoy smooth takeoffs and landings.
And yes, I really do hope this is solved with their upcoming release, MSFS2024.
Happy flying Captain Chairbus 🫡
Mark
I think you’re onto something. Another developer is MK Studio. I recently got one of their airport scenery and my god, it was a mess of studtters. Removed it and it was smooth as butter. I’m done, I’ll just keep the default for now.
MK studios makes beautiful looking scenery and did a great job on Philadelphia, which is where I grew up and I was so happy that I bought it on day one. But like you, after flying around these beautiful airports you begin to value smoothness over looks and just end up settling for the default scenery in order to enjoy a buttery smooth experience.
very well explained
I understand where he is coming from. But osobo only cares about money and same goes for developers. You watch osobo slowly drift away from msfs 2020 after 2024 is released.
Its the 4090 the sim dont like it. I got a 7900xtx and a 4090 and the 7900xtx works alot better no studders at all. Soon as i put the 4090 in it studders. 64gb 7950x at 55.75ghz all core. The sim dont like 4090s
It's possible the card is feeding the processor too many frames before it's ready to process it all causing the stutters, might be a mismatch in the frametime/framerate.
Wasted your funds on that 7950, should have got the 7800x3d
I'll probably move to Intel's next generation chip sometime next year depending on how MSFS2024 is running. I haven't been thrilled with AMD's multi tasking ability, this was my first ever AMD Processor and I bought it specifically for MSFS. I'm beginning to learn that hardware is less important than how well optimized the game is and how well built the underlying architecture of the game is. It's impossible to brute force your way to smooth game play if the sim itself has some underlying flaws.
I have no noticeable stutters but run a 5800X3D with 6900XT.
The 3D cache makes a phenomenal differencne in MSFS.
SU15 DX12 update fixes all this
I tested this on both SU14 and SU15 Beta, the issue is present on both versions. They claim less stutters on developer streams for users with low end hardware, but that does not include stutters caused by payware scenery loading into the sim. The base sim with no Payware addon scenery runs perfectly buttery smooth for me in both SU14 and SU15. The issue is with how Add-on scenery loads into the simulator and sadly that is not fixed in SU15, DX12 nor DX11.
I havent had any issue at all with stutters thankfully @@CaptainChairbus
Addons Linker.
I'm having some better luck with the stutters only linking in the 2 airports I'm flying to. Wonder if the game is just overwhelmed when you have 350+ airports loading in.
@@CaptainChairbus That's exactly what I do, I only load in what I need for a particular flight. I don't think it's stated explicitly anywhere to do that but it's always made sense to me.
Try increasing your Object Level of Detail. 150 seems to work best for me at most payware airports. There’s a great comment on Airnot’s RUclips video about MSFS settings which explains OLOD in detail.
That is the culprit for most of the stutters you’re seeing. Sounds counter intuitive but increasing it should help eliminate a large part of those stutters. With your system you could possible push it to 200. You’ll be surprised at how much smoother your sim is. Keep your TLOD at whatever you usually keep it to. Also, when using AutoFPS mod, don’t use it to change OLOD. Keep that constant at 150 or 200.
Also DX12 seems to work a bit better for me in terms of stuttering. Also do you have photogrammetry on?
Agree completely with you, in theory, keeping the OLOD above 150 should in theory load in the detail like gates, workers, vehicles, taxiway signs when coming in for approach before you get to that critical stage of the final 200-300 feet, however I still find I get the stuttering even with the OLOD set to 150 or 200. I have run that test because in theory your idea SHOULD work, but in practice I still got the stuttering when coming into some airports and I could visually see it coincided with the popping of taxi way signs, gates, or landside cars. I believe there was one instance coming into Newark, where I saw a much smoother rendering of the objects, gradual rather than popping, when I had the OLOD set to a higher number, but it doesn't work in every scenario.
@@CaptainChairbusmsfs it’s not optimized all of your doing is just placebo
So far I haven't felt the need to buy scenery for MSFS.
This is why I love XP so much. First of all 3rd party airports usually work pretty well. And secondly default airports are so good that you actually don’t need 3rd party. You always get a consistent performance / output. 60 FPS capped with V-Sync buttery smooth. Love it.
Just did a 5 hours flight from KSEA to KMIA in MSFS. Buttery smooth (60 FPS V-Sync) from take off to landing. Perfect experience and very happy with my new 7800x3D that is feeding my 4080 super. Then suddenly at 500ft stutters and low FPS. Almost cried…😅 maybe it was Active Sky? Maybe Latin VFR? Maybe DX12? Maybe the rolling cache? Maybe NVIDIA cache? Gaming mode on? Exclusions added? High power settings? Is the new Nvidia driver? NVIDIA settings? Re-sizable bar? Hyperthreading off?
Bla bla bla And that’s the problem with MSFS. It’s hard to find the root cause. You get frustrated and you spend more time on trying to find the issue or on optimizing the sim and your PC gets spammed with 10 Microsoft gaming apps and language experience packages that you would otherwise delete if you would not use MSFS…😂
If it happened at 500ft it was most likely the scenery loading in issue I outline in the video. I've been periodically opening up my XP12 installation every few weeks to check the beta, but I am do accustomed to how the cameras move and feel now in MSFS, the way the click spots behave and all the weird intangible stuff you get used to with a platform... I really can't go back to XP12 now.
I flew XP11 for 3 years and loved the physics , and I agree 100% their default airports look incredible now in XP12, but unless MSFS ceases to exist, I don't see myself returning to XP anytime soon.
I think MSFS sees their default airports as a big shortcoming as well as airport environments and will definitely bring something to the table with MSFS2024 since XP12 default airports look and feel alive.
Funny enough the thing I miss most about XP vs MSFS is car traffic. The cars you pass over on final in XP give an excellent relative scale to how fast you're moving above the ground on short final and MSFS road traffic is seriously lacking in this regard, so much so that I just turned road traffic off in MSFS.
Anyway, happy simming to you on XP12. I am rooting for Austin and the team to keep innovating.
@@CaptainChairbus I totally understand your approach and I would love to stick with just one sim too. But both sims are great and have something the other one don’t has so I am switching frequently…downside is you start to compare which can be an energy taker…
If you want performance for your flights, cmon on over to P3D where non of these issues exist because of the sim. You can get P3D to look about 85% what MFS is and still enjoy fidelity in the aircraft with even more capabilities than they have in MFS. Good to enjoy with and not have any issues or updates ruining it for you.
P3D can look very good with mods and a learning curve of experience just like X-plane, but I'm sticking with MSFS. MSFS can be quite immersive right out of the box and with all the P3D devs moving over to MSFS with their aircraft and scenery, the future looks brighter on the MSFS platform to me personally. I'm glad you're getting enjoyment out of P3D as your sim as choice, though!
Simmers Always decide what the future will hold OR NOT HOLD
Then, 120FPS, THERE YOU ALREADY LOST ME.
I sim at a locked 30 FPS. NO ISSUES AND NO STUTTERS. AND it IS enough
To think that people spend money on a GPU that can buy you a small car.
Then, we see many content creators who sim with no stutters. Why this only happens with certain PCs is truly a mystery
Lots of posts daily is all about FPS. This is not COD. FPS chasing takes away many hours of simming enjoyment
It seems like there is a big misconception in the Flight Simulator world that lowering FPS creates smoother game play. This is a flat out lie, and I did the testing since I too believed this myth. I capped my frames using NVCP and RTSS at 30, 45 and 60 FPS, and got the exact same stutters at the exact same spots in the sim where I got the stutters with my frames capped at 90 FPS and uncapped. The issue is with the way the scenery is loading into the sim, not the overhead of the GPU that generates the frames.
Worth checking the video more in depth...ruclips.net/video/gpvU1elcWqk/видео.html
You don't need 85-120 FPS! The humaneye can't discern that high. Sound a little egotistical.
The eye can certainly tell, it may be harder to tell depending on what type and size of monitor in use, but everyone is different. I've talked to gamers who can tell the difference between 144 fps and 240 fps first person shooter style games. Me personally, my cutoff for where my eyes can't tell is around 90FPS.
Now, having said that, it seems like there is a big misconception in the Flight Simulator world that lowering FPS creates smoother game play. This is a flat out lie, and I did the testing since I too believed this myth. I capped my frames using NVCP and RTSS at 30, 45 and 60 FPS, and got the exact same stutters at the exact same spots in the sim where I got the stutters with my frames capped at 90 FPS and uncapped. The issue is with the way the scenery is loading into the sim, not the overhead of the GPU that generates the frames.
stfu😂😂😂😂 for example. play overwatch in 60 hz then in 144. yes you will see a huge difference. just stop talking
ASOBO destroyed their own game. It has gotten worse and worse and worse.
I have given up on 2020, and unfortunately I don’t think 2024 will be better. Awful developer.
I'm cautiously optimistic, but I've worked in the software space for 9 years and what I find so surprising is that most developers are unaware of the bugs in their own software because they don't really use the software, they just build it. My hope is to bring it to their attention what exactly is going on with the scenery load-ins so we can help them test and fix it.
MSFS will stutter unless you fix FPS at 30 or 60.
Period.
It seems like there is a big misconception in the Flight Simulator world that lowering FPS creates smoother game play. This is a flat out lie, and I did the testing since I too believed this myth. I capped my frames using NVCP and RTSS at 30, 45 and 60 FPS, and got the exact same stutters at the exact same spots in the sim where I got the stutters with my frames capped at 90 FPS and uncapped. The issue is with the way the scenery is loading into the sim, not the overhead of the GPU that generates the frames.
If you're computer is incapable of reaching 30 or 60 FPS, this may result in performance stutters, but this video is discussing scenery loading stutters which is caused by 3rd party add ons loading into the sim.
Worth checking the video more in depth...ruclips.net/video/gpvU1elcWqk/видео.html
TBH the humblebragging about how much money you burnt on a video game and the constant shots advertising how smooth your landings are diminish any sympathy we might have for you .
The reason I list my hardware is because the number one question people ask when trying to troubleshoot a performance issue is “what is your hardware” so I listed my hardware. It’s not a sin to mention your hardware in a video about performance. It’s also not a sin to be financially secure. I won’t apologize because you’re offended that some people can afford top of the line hardware to enjoy their hobby. The shorts if you watch them also have some stutters in them, but the times where I have the really horrible stutters I don’t even bother posting because nobody wants to see a landing with huge pauses in the middle.
@@CaptainChairbus I was talking about the amount you spent on add on software rather than the hardware, but whatever. Nobody wants to see a landing with your fpm in it either.
@@barthvapour Definitely not going to apologize for financially supporting the great developers who make this hobby great. And I'm definitely going to make way more videos of landings with the landing rate. Appreciate you stopping by and checking out my videos, wish you the best brother
@@CaptainChairbus the great developers who make this hobby great are the same developers you are blaming for causing stutters in your game by using ridiculous levels of detail.
@@barthvapour The video did not blame, it offered explanations for stuttering and offered possible solutions to the problems. This is called constructive feedback. The video also created great dialogues in the comments from hundreds of users and developers trying to find solutions. The developers are great and do a fantastic job of bringing the simulator to life with detailed add-ons. The developers add great value to the sim community unlike your comments which have added zero value whatsoever to the conversation; unless you want to “humble brag” about your portfolio of incredible flight sim add-ons you have built for the sim and have a solution to the stutters… appreciate you coming back to the video to comment so the video gets more exposure and attracts viewers who want to add value to the conversation! Wish you the best brother!
Why would anyone spend $5000 on addons for a flight simulator in the first place, especially airports? I use my flight simulator for flying - I don't spend a lot of time wandering around airports. I don't get the point.
Don't ask what some of us spent on Star Citizen then 🤣
most disgusting trash is gsx. many stutters and when unlinked I load the sim 50% faster
I like GSX but sadly when their ground equipment loads into the airport with a GSX profile I think it is contributing to the stuttering on short finals. Also you save years of your life not waiting for the sim to load when it is removed