Pocahontas II: Journey to a New World - Disneycember
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- Опубликовано: 3 дек 2016
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What's shocking is this movie is actually more historically accurate to her real story than the first movie was
But not by much.
No.....just......no...... not at all....
USAFpilot1993 actually yes, Pocahontas did really go to England and marry that guy, the only difference is she never went back to America, she died really young and she became a Christian before she died
+Rift Shredder actually she did return to the Americas, but she did soon after returning.
Yep, her Christian baptized name was Racheal, I think if I remember correctly.
I was actually completely unaware that people didn't like the first Pocahantas
I guess it has to do with the historical inaccuracy. People are uncomfortable watching a romance blossom between those two characters, because in reality Pocahontas was only 12 when she met John Smith, and he was near middle-aged. Could have been better received had it not been based on two real historical figures. -
-I guesd the same thing can be said about Anastasia. As a film it's intriguing and fun, but the fact that the protagonist is based off of a historical figure who was murdered as a teen turns many people away. I love the movie but would have preferred it had it only been vaguely inspired by the real Anastasia, instead of having their protagonist actually BE Anastasia.
I was for a while too but I kinda understand why. It's partly because the historical reasons and many thinking it offensive to make light of the Native American's struggle when it was much worse than what was portrayed. Disney was clearly trying to take a more serious route but in an attempt to make it's leads more "real" they came off as rather dull to some and much of the story did too which is such a shame because just looking at the film you see that SO MUCH effort went into making it. The music, animation, culture, and ambition is all fantastic and I do still enjoy watching this movie. It's fine entertainment but not as fun as the other disney Ren movies, and not the Best Picture Winner that Disney wanted.
I personally don’t like Pocahontas. Not for the historical inaccuracies, I couldn’t care less about that. No, it was just because I thought it was BORING. The story was not that compelling, the characters aren’t that interesting, and it just wasn’t that good in my opinion.
The soundtrack, on the other hand, is godly. What else do you expect from Alan Menken?
Oh, and I’ve never seen Pocahontas II. I don’t really plan on doing so, either.
Personally I thought it was an okay movie. The animation's beautiful, the comedy's cute, and I enjoy the songs, but I found the plot to be too predictable, and the human characters boring. But that's just what I think.
The soundtrack was successful
Bear baiting was a real thing. They would take a bear, blind him, and then sic a bunch of dogs on him until the bear died or they ran out of dogs. They would bet on who would win. It was a really popular past time.
That sounds like a cruel game I'm glad they stopped that
fluttershy neal When all you have to look forward to is death from a plague or a future civil war, (gross simplification, I know), you bet your ass they had fucked up entertainment.
fluttershy neal nope they just got rid of the bear and pitted two dogs together or replaces them with roosters.
they didn't replace them with rosters, bear bating was a nobles/rich mans sport, cock fighting was around at the same time, but was a "commoner" sport
Gerald Grenier the point I was making is we still have barbaric sadistic animal fighting "sports" today in dog fighting and cock fighting. Just ask Michael Vick.
bear baiting was totally a thing. And it was just as terrible as it sounds
Several dog breeds were created just for that sport.
Banchoking Yikes. Hopefully they did not use my fantastic idea: the Great Golden Chugapaweenieoodlezu (Great Dane, Golden Retriever, Chihuahua, Pug, Weiner Dog, Poodle, Shih-tzu).
Marshadow the Magical That sounds adorable.
Banchoking Would it be though? Or would it be a 7 eyed, 11 legged, 5 eared, 3 nosed, 20 headed, 50 tailed, rainbow rabid drooling monstrosity?
Marshadow the Magical lol
6:11 Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Why is there 30 seconds of darkness at the end of this?
I think it's for the youtube end-slate annotations.
Because a vision's softly creeping
Lift its seeds when I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted in my brain
Still remains
Within the sound of silence
TheMAMAnimations In restless dreams I walked alone
Down narrow streets of cobblestone.
Neath the halo of a street lamp, I turned my collar to the cold and damp.
The first Pocahontas is underrated.
Crazy Horse 9000 no, you like it. there's a difference.
i like sunflower seeds I'm not the only one who does.
i like sunflower seeds Well when do you use the term 'underrated' then? Is there a singular authority on these matters? An x number of people who need to agree?
It's obviously his/her opinion, no need to add an 'imo' every time.
I guess im one of the few who likes it
...then again it was one of the few disney movies i owned when i was little so i guess the nostalgia goggles are clouding my judgement
I find Pocahontas great. The animation, the music, the acting is awesome. The scene of the war! I frikin love that! And that ending... uffff I love the ending trying something different as the usual, and with that incredible score by Alan Menken it always makes me cry.
Pocahontas on a European dress is actually historically accurate. And the romance with the new guy is the real one.
Kinda makes you wonder why they didn’t LEAD with the HISTORICALLY ACCURATE in the first movie
There was barely any development between pocohantus and Rolfe compared to her and Smith. Like their love was from pain and suffering and she literally ran for her life to save smith and all that energy gone like it never happened in the 2nd movie .
@@nebula5371 exactly, me and my sister HATED the new pairing with Pocahontas. Heck even Odd1sout don't like Pocahontas 2
@@Samuel_Loegan Odd1sout doesn’t like ANY of the Disney sequels! Even Lion King 2 and thats seen by many as amazing!!!
@@nukacolanut9274 I see, dayum...
So wait... Pocahontas just, falls in love with the brown haired guy? Even though John is still alive?
...
... What????
She thinks John is dead for the majority of the plot, since he was thought to be dead after the beginning
The real life Pocahontas married John Rolfe, maybe they wanted to be slightly more accurate (emphasis on slightly)
Pretty sure John also (strangely) shows he has more passion for sailing then for Pocahontas and he lets her go.
It doesn't make that much more sense if you've watched the movie.
LaceeLasers John never writes Pocahontas after all that time like he told her he would and he holds her back from being her true self while the brown haired guy lets her be who she really is
We will survive Disneycember!
Channel Awesome LOL you pinned your own comment
Channel Awesome My Christmas and happy foodfight day.
Channel Awesome no
Channel Awesome Idk Doug, these movies are just too painful, I don't think I'm gonna make it...
Just wait until we get to Hunchback 2 and Mulan 2
The problem some people had with the first movie is that historically, she did not have a love relationship with John Smith. Actually, she married John Rolfe and had one child, Thomas Rolfe. She died in her husbands arms at the age of 21 but the cause of her death is unknown. It could have been pneumonia, small pox, or poison given her symptoms. Man, Disney sequels are going to drive you nuts this month.
RodimusPrimal they expected DISNEY to make her into a life story?
Are you fucking kidding me????
Like I keep repeating throughout this comment section: What's kinda dumb for me is that people treat Pocahontas the DISNEY movie as something that connects to reality and should be historically accurate, when most kids growing up, kinda already knew it wasn't and shouldn't be treated that way. Most all of us treated it like it should be: historical fiction. Something that has a few bearings in reality, but nothing more besides that. Its like accusing Assassin's Creed or El Dorado of being historically inaccurate. Its just not the kind of thing it exists to be in the first place or how you should be criticizing it. Pocahontas the Disney movie is clearly not even attempting to be something in actual reality, its a fantasy/historical fiction hybrid. So why do people pester it this much?
Pocahontas probably died from any common European plague
The day he reviews Hunchack of Notre Dame II is the day I'll forever consider a national holiday.
Oh man, that's gonna be fun.
+
Even as a dumbass six year-old I found it hard to sit through.
+Neo Anderson Hello! I am from the future. He does end up reviewing Hunchback of Notre Dame II, and his sanity just keeps on spiralling downward.....
Pocahontas II: Because fuck history.
Well, to be fair, it was about as historically accurate as the first. The way I see it, they did get two major things about Pocahontas' life correct; she did eventually go to England, and she did marry the guy she got with in THIS movie, not John Smith.
aenjgeal I guess she died
Retro Mammoth that's true I vote for Retro mammtoth
Retro: Maybe it's slightly more accurate? John Rolfe is who she winds up marrying. But she does so before she leaves America, and the only reason she goes to England is because he does.
She's never thrown in jail, and there's no connection between what happens to her in England and what happens in North America.
She also pushes very hard to eventually go back to America after her husband dies.
Oh, and the reason the whole thing starts is that she is captured in a war between the colonists and the tribes. The idea is to trade her for some prisoners. But her father won't do it. He will only trade for weapons.
She winds up disavowing her father over this. This, however, is after she's lived with the colonists for a while and learned English, so she might've gotten a one-sided version of the story. Or it may have been so she could go to England.
Finally, the story about Pocahontas saving John Smith? That was written soon before she went to England, in order to ingratiate her to the English people. Scholars still aren't sure if it's really happened, and, if it did, whether it was really her and not someone else, and whether it was all just a ceremony.
...can I get a tl;dr of this?
I can't be the only one who obsessively refreshed the page until the video was up.
Anna P you're not
The Disneycember videos are uploaded at 11 am PST. So you don't have to keep refreshing the page.
MegaSoulhero I know, but I realized it was 10:59 and I went to the channel awesome page immediately and kept refreshing.
Anna P Oh ok
I did.
M sister and I used to watch Pocahontas 1 all the time as kids , so I can't not love it.
Same. Once you've watched it in your childhood, it's hard to dislike 😅
I have an exception myself Spy kids 3 I loved young. But now I hate it when I rewatched It. Specifically because of the 3D effects.
Pocahontas is my favorite kids movie ever! But I can understand why people dislike it, especially Doug since he didn't watch it at a very young age. I think he should review Atlantis 2 though, that's just purly awful! Atleast, in my opinion :)
Fredrik Bermhed I honestly liked both Atlantis 1 and 2, although the second isn't nearly as good, and the plot is odd... Parts of it is almost like Scooby Doo... Then again, I watched it as a teen, and had a bit of a crush, hehe.
i never liked Pocahontas 1, it was way too mean spirited and boring for me.
Of course bear baiting would be real in an era where public executions were treated like a block party, and even the theater was notoriously violent and prone to burning down all the time.
No wonder we wanted to distance ourselves from those screwballs
KV MLP Bear baiting was real, but it was typically a pitched fight between a chained bear and five loose dogs. They probably left the dogs out because if she interrupted that fight she would be dead.
The most horrifying thing about this film is that Pocahontas looks like Voldemort.
the love child of voldemort and janice from the muppets
what way? Like seriously, how can you possibly see that?
AwesomeSpider4 Look at the nose when it pans over to a full frontal face shot, the slitlike nostrils are pretty horrific.
hinasakukimi Pretty much
Well thanks for the visual that I can't get out of my head.
Bear bating was a big (Especially medieval) sport: Here`s the info en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear-baiting
Interesting, never knew this was a real thing. None of the dates cited are from the Medieval era though, 16th century onwards according to the article. Rich people sports are always the weirdest, they never involve the people themselves doing anything.
That almost sounds like a commentary on people who watch the superbowl.
Daniel Higgins Yeah in medieval books such as pillars of the earth which takes place during the 1130`s, during the anarchy, bear bating is shown as well as cockerel fighting.
Not as big as football would become from especially Henry the eight`s reign onwards.
people must been so bored back than.
2:06
Actually Doug, that REALLY was a popular event "back in the day".
Bear Baiting?
PlatypusBunneh Doesn't make it any less fucked up
Am I the only one who liked the original Pocahontas? I loved that movie!
I actually liked it too.
And I still think Pocahontas 2 is just infinitely worse.
Me too!😀.
I love it too.
I kinda liked the original Pocahontas, too. Yeah, it definitely wasn't a masterpiece, but I still really enjoyed it. The music was really good, and I thought the romance between Pocahontas and John Smith was well done ( Yes, I know it wasn't historically accurate, but still). So you're definitely not alone because I actually loved the original Pocahontas.
@@yogalover2753I disagree. Its not my favorite from the Renaissance, but I personally prefer it over ones like Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast, the former being extremely racist of Middle Eastern culture. I get the story of Disney’s Pocahontas was getting into some very sensitive topics like colonialism and how awful they truly were towards the natives and Pocahontas’s actual real life tragedy. I still say this movie would’ve done a lot better if Disney hadn’t been so dumb to base it on a real story and made it INSPIRED by the legend instead
I never understood why people hate Pocahontas so much. Here in Europe we quit like this movie. The first one at least.
Watch the Nostalgia Chick's review. That's why
Marco Polo
And that means?
Marco Polo
Sorry, I don't see it.
I guess as Europeans were not as bothered by the historical inaccuracy as Americans. I think Pocahontas herself is a little boring though, but I like her songs
Erich Scheidle Americans were very bothered by the historical inaccuracies and it dragged the movie down for them.
It's like a history buff watching 300.
It's the thing being that people who love the first movie hate the sequel while the ones who didn't care of the first film where like... pocahontas 2 is more interesting tbh.
SBells27 What happens if you don't care about either? I feel so left out.
Warren JB You belong in the second category
Not true I loved the first film and the second was alright. I'd enjoy it as much as the first film but I didn't hate either. Also, I prefer Rofle to Smith.
disneydork57 she did marry JR historically. Her relationship with JS was never exactly a romantic one
Well, in real life she does go to be with Rolfe rather than Smith and Smith (though he did historically like Pocahontas) wasn't the one to marry her, that was Rolfe. If you showed kids both movies, then yeah it would be almost historically accurate (except for the Pocahontas 2 ending and beginning). Pocahontas 2 could had started with Smith in jain and her coming over to prove she was worthy. And it could had ended where Smith and Rolfe were able to prove that Pocahontas coming from another culture doesn't look kindly to animal cruelty and since she never hurt anyone she is safe. (Also, Pocahontas dies in England so her being able to go home at the end is safer for kids).
The first film was confusing but it kind of was just a rough overview of Pocahontas meeting John Smith (and Disney's idea to cut out time and gore by combining John Rolfe and John Smith into one character).
Next one is The Lion King 2: Simba's Pride that one is very good actually
Emi Froy personally Lion King 1.5 is the best Disney sequel
I actually really like the Lion king sequels. 1.5 especially.
As a kid, I watched it about as often as the original. I think that movie is a little underrated, but I get the feeling that Doug won't care for the predictable romance.
I'm bracing myself for a bad review.
Too bad it's rated G. We didn't get the real ending to Romeo and Juliet.........
Spoilers below!!!!!!!!!!!
In the end, Romeo finds Juliet in a drug-like sleep and kills himself because he thinks she's dead. Juliet then wakes up and kills herself because Romeo is dead...........
I really hope I got that right.
Just to let you know, the bear thing was a real thing back then. Shakespeare even references it in "Macbeth"
What's with the 40 seconds of nothing at the end?
Letting it sink in.
Imagine your own Charity Shout-Out.
right?
The beginning of the video is a boring logo; the end is blankness. Between is an interesting review. The middle was the best part.
It's for one of the newer RUclips features where you can put related videos and your channel logo at. Like annotations, except you can't turn them off and Doug clearly doesn't know how to use them.
I dislike it because they just threw Pocahontas's and John Smith's relationship away
in real life John Smith gets hit with a cannonball in the new world and gets sent home to England then when Pocahontas goes to England she visits him on his deathbed and they never see each other again
that rely HAD to be done. and actually their relationship always bothered me to begin with. Pocohontas was a real person, she rely did go to England and marry an Englishman. she rely had contact with John Smith, story goes she saved his life (some say that was no a true story though).
however she was like 12 or 14 and he was like 40 at time that even should have happened. her reason for spending time in jamestown is said to be playing with the children. and she did not marry him, their is no evidence of them even having a romantic relationship. for the sake of Smith's morals/honor we can hope their was nothing more then is presented in history. friendship. she was actually married pretty young to Rolf. she later traveled to England with him as his wife. at that point though she was calling herself Rebecca.
But the first movie was garbage. So they ignored parts of it and made a better movie.
same. it really pissed me off.
I don't really see why people are going on and on about what happened in real life, I think Pocahontas was more inspired by history rather than trying to play the story out exactly how it happened in real life. If they wanted it to be completely historically correct, they would've made Pocahontas 12, but they did not.
Today I learned people hated Pocahontas.
Judy Kuhn's voice as Pocahontas barely ages, she's fantastic! For all you musical theatre fans out there, she was the in the original Broadway cast of Les Miserables as Cosette, and also the original Broadway cast of Chess (as Florence), Rags (as Bella), and Fun Home (as Helen Bechdel).
Yeeesssss I love Judy! And go figure when she was in the 10th anniversary, Eponine was played by Lea Salonga. Two Disney princesses!
I agree 100%. The best part of this movie is Pocahantas fun experience in England. That's the only reason I wanted to see the film.
The part before the bear torture is the perfect place to stop watching. The scene following it is when the animation takes a weird nosedive for a few shots and its weird.
The bear baiting is historically factual. Also, Pocahontas married John Rolfe in real life. I think this was their attempt to reconcile Disney with history and sorta working, sorta failing at both.
Pocahontas is pretty good. I don't understand why people hate it. It's not the best Disney movie by any means, but it's not garbage.
William Ackerman I liked the animation and music but the rest was boring for me
William Ackerman Pocahontas is good story-wise, animation-wise, and music-wise, but people have this bias against it because of the historic inaccuracy.. perhaps they shouldn't have called it Pocahontas.
I am of the opinion that it might have been better received if they used original characters instead of a historical figure whose actual horrible life (kidnapped and held hostage at 12, and though she learned to read and write, she was basically forced to change her name and convert to Christianity, marry a white man, then died of smallpox at 22) is romanticized based on the account of a known liar (she never actually saved Smith, and he started telling that story when she became well-known).
The story, I think, is fine and still could be improved, but it probably would have been better to present it as a fictional story instead of one so loosely based on real life, it might as well have been made up.
I don't think it's the worst (animation and music was awesome) but it was hard for me to get through.
It's not a terrible film but I found it incredibly boring.
The animation doesn't look that bad but GOD, WOULD IT HURT THEM TO PUT THE TINIEST BIT OF SHADING ON THESE CHARACTERS?
This is a problem with much of Disney's theatrical films too. Even the original Pocahontas has little to no shading in most of its scenes.
@@Newsystuffs I think you're right. I only noticed shading during "Savages" and the reprise.
Tone mattes, as they’re called, cost real man hours to apply per frame, so I can imagine they wouldn’t want to burden that cost
Probably didn't really think about it at the time. Plus it would probably cost another couple thousand from their budget to go back and do.
But yeah. These characters look a tinnny bit flat.
I think that happens with almost every animated movie?
*Research Is Your Friend* -- Pocahontas (not her true name) really did go to England with John Rolfe. At least in the sequel she's closer to her correct age - she was 12 in 1607. Anyway, some modern historians argue that Rolfe essentially kidnapped her. Regardless, she was forcibly converted to Christianity, given the new name Rebecca, married Rolfe, and got paraded around as a curiosity in Shakespearean London. She never met the king. She and John Rolfe had a son. Pocahontas herself died only a year or so after arriving in England (ironic as she was set to return to Virginia a couple weeks later) because she couldn't handle the colder climate and contracted pneumonia. ...Yeah I can kinda see why Disney wouldn't want to bring all that up. Ironically the Pocahontas sequel is MORE historically accurate than the first movie... at least in the middle part that doesn't suck.
Fun Fact: The real John Smith looked a lot like Ratliffe. The design was changed because Mel Gibson is a prick and demanded to play a ripped blond.
Soufriere her son didn't die. He lived well after her and even returned to America
Joy Holmes - I thought that might be the case but I wasn't sure. I appreciate the correction. I'll edit my post to fix.
Soufriere you're welcome
Some could even argue that John Smith and Ratcliffe had their personalities changed, since John Smith was known to be the asshole by his shipmates, while Ratcliffe had the colonies best interests at sake and would end up getting the John Smith death a few years later for being too trusting of the natives.
@@pika_dusk Nah they kinda depicted it sorta right. Though i have heard John Smith may have had a more authoritarian personality than in the movie. But the way they depict John Ratcliffe as incompetent is fully true to history, he was unpopular with his crew because of it. Though maybe he wasnt greedy but he wasnt a good leader.
I can't believe Pocohontas got a sequel and better movies like Treasure Planet, The Great Mouse Detective and Inside Out haven't. Doesn't that make your blood boil?
Giovanni Orellana Well I mean is a little too soon to now about Inside out and Treasure planet was based on a classic novel so it would also br kind of silly. Great mouse detective tought totally agree with you.
Inside Out was only released a few years ago. Pixar is known for taking a long time when it comes to sequels (Incredibles 2 anybody?)
Well, Inside Out came out last year and animation needs some time.
MetaKnight64 It's about time that Incredibles 2 happened
Giovanni Orellana to be fair... inside out just newly came out. Give it some time.
2:17 Actually, yes. The sport way back when known as 'Bear-Baiting' was a very real pastime for nobles in various countries, in which people would chain up a bear, loose vicious dogs on it, prod it with spears, and even occasionally setting its fur on fire, all for a cruel public display of entertainment. It was outlawed by the Geneva Convention over a century ago.... This was brought to you by Mal Masque's Interesting-Yet-Pointless Trivia, providing you fun bits of knowledge you'll never need again.
I loved the original Pocahontas.
same
@Merciless Freak mate nothing wrong with likeing the movie i personally think its bad but just because someone likes it dose not mean they are an "idiot" mainly because likeing something dose not effect your intelligence for thinking so you may be the idiot
I only watched this movie once as a kid and I honestly don't remember anything about this movie other than the bear scene. and I never understood why she ended up with John rolph and not smith. this movie felt so detached from the first one.
ik
I know a lot of people hate how John Smith was replaced as the love interest, and I get it, but I actually appreciate that the movie takes a different approach than most children's media does by showing that a first love isn't always going to be the last. Sometimes people change and we move on, and that's okay. Also, they didn't turn one love interest into a terrible person. That's cool.
did he skip enchanted Christmas for some reason?
+Chris Mason Already did it - ruclips.net/video/SGUkgirE25E/видео.html
He did that last year. Just type the name in.
Chris Mason it's RUclips fault
Channel Awesome okay I forgot I apologize
Channel Awesome I LOVE YOU GUYS:D
I swear I saw this as a child, making this was the only direct-to-dvd Disney sequel I've actually gotten through entirely. I'm thankful for that...
To me, and I don't think the writer's intended to this, but was a happy accident to try to be more historically accurate, was the relationship between John Rolfe and Pocahontas. Sometimes absence does not make the heart grow fonder, and yeah, she really liked John smith at the time because he was different from the other guys in her tribe, but over time, she just grew out of him. In her land, so many things were going on with the new settlers and her trying to keep the peace between the two. Then comes this new guy who shows her his land and customs the way she showed Smith and their relationship developed as they had more of an understanding with one another. Smith on the other hand was more interested in other things, which is great, but not really what Pocahontas was after anymore. It's actually a rare occurrence for a Disney story to end up with a different guy after the happy ending.
*****
Agreed. It was certainly another intriguing part of this sequel.
Yes, you explained perfectly why I thought the relationship change worked!
I absolutely agree. But there's also the fact I find John Smith incredibly boring and Rolfe... less so. He actually has some quirks and goals, unlike the first guy.
Also, she moved on. It actually makes me glad that Disney decided to show how moving on from someone who (you believe) has died is healthy, and that running back into a previous relationship may not be the best thing for you, as people change and it's ok to move forward.
I heavily disagree. For me, Pocahontas and John Smith were one of the few couples that actually got to know each other on a deeper level and knew what each other wanted in life (aside each other) and especially if you’ve listened to their deleted love song If I Never Knew You, you’d see just how much they loved each other. Their love is NOT based on their looks like multiple popular couples like Belle and Beast (I’m sorry but Beast literally says Belle is beautiful and stuff) Ariel falls madly in love with Eric because he’s hot, and same thing with Aladdin. I’m not so sure Al would’ve swooped in if Jas was an ugly old hag. Anyways, Pocahontas risked getting killed in a war to protect her man, that is how deeply she loved him. And him, he gets critically injured saving her dad’s life and even tried convincing her to let him stay and succumb to his injuries rather than return to London and risk never seeing her again.
Rolfe on the other hand, he always kinda struck me as a massive jerk. He almost flat out refused to take her instead because “eww, she’s a girl” and only backed off when the tribe looked ready to clobber him if he didn’t comply. Fast forward throughout the movie, I just couldn’t see them actually falling in love, and it was made so much worse when Rolfe falls deeply in love with her when she’s in the dress. It proves he finds her beautiful as a proper English lady instead of a free spirited native woman, which a crimson red flag. And the worst part? They made Pocahontas and especially Smith to be absolute a**holes to validate Rolfe as a man who actually cares about Pocahontas and her feelings. Smith especially only cares about himself and could care less if her people get genocided by the king’s forces. Which is completely against his character in the first movie when he got into an argument with his boss that the natives weren’t hostile and could help them if they’d let them. I just don’t see Rolfe being happy to dump his fancy life and job in London just to live a more simple lifestyle in her village and not having a huge struggle of having to adapt to such a drastically different lifestyle.
Also, you wanna complain about couples that barely knew each other and would’ve broken up very quickly? Aside the classic princesses (especially Aurora OMG) there’s a lot of couples that would’ve crumbled easily. Rolfe is NOT the man for Disney Pocahontas and I personally find him really boring
What have we done to him?
Kash Akinsade something truly horrible. We made him watch Disney sequels...
Be afraid people, be very afraid.
@@mach6247 The famous tagline for 1986's horror movie The Fly
A Movie where the MIDDLE is the good part and the beginning and ending are bad... Is Pocahontas II an anti Brother Bear?
It's funny because in the story of Pocahontas she does, in fact, go to England and fall in love with John Rolf. If anything, they got that part right.
She was captured around 17, when she was already married to Kocoum, and taken to England. She was being instructed in English culture and Christianity when she met Rolfe and married him of her own free will. She became a Christian, was baptized "Rebecca", and was recognized as a noblewoman in England.
She wasn’t in love with Rolfe. He was a pretty awful man in reality and waay older than her. He wasn’t this squeaky clean good guy Disney tried painting him as
I love the giant Native guy, he makes me laugh everytime he is on screen.
"bear baiting" was an actual thing back then, and it was actually pretty disturbing. What would happen is that they would restrain a bear and them send attack dogs on the bear, and everyone loved it.
Yeah but I doubt that Native American cultures were much more evolved on animal rights than European ones were. Animal cruelty in general wasn't seen as the problem it is today
Loudmouth Reviews while you can't generalize native American cultures across tribes and nations, in general, natives were incredibly respectful of animal life, normal hunting them only for food and hide.
Loudmouth reviews:
I am very curious what some of these practices were. I know that in the north, they were (and still are) rather harsh with their dogs, at least relative to common standards in the lower 48. Beyond that, I am not aware of anything, though it wouldn't be very surprising to me if the Aztecs had some form of animal sacrifice that went along with their human sacrifice, blood was a central part of their culture.
What I am curious about is the east coast, midwest, and mountain states. If you know of anything there, I would be very curious.
Brandon Lyon: I believe the Inuit did have sled dogs before Europeans came. After Europeans came, most had horses.
@@patadams7282 Think only bad thing "in human history in general" is human sacrifice. I guess its only good thing to come out of some major religions to ban it.
Ah, a sequel to my favorite movie: beauty and the trail of tears
Or as it's known In its American localized version: Pocahontas
ThePlasmaPro JonTron reference acknowledged
At least there's no rapping dog or racist mice
Pongo, is that you, boy!?
Eat up boys you'll need your strength for the mexican winter
Hehe, that's for reviewing FoodFight!
I can't believe I'm saying this but, I think you are right about the original not being a great film (even ignoring historical inaccuracies). I still don't agree with you about the ending though. I'm glad that Disney had at LEAST enough respect for the culture they were trying to represent that they didn't have her decide she'd rather go with John Smith. It was nice to see a (older) Disney movie where the heroine choose her responsibilities and family over her love interest.
As someone from Spain, home of bullfighting, I loved the commentary about it you made, Doug.
Well, you have to be really deluded to think that all Spanish people enjoy that thing. It's just a very small minority
Did anyone else spend all morning refreshing the channel page until the next Disneycember was uploaded?
I'm pretty sure you just have to wait until 1:00 pm.
For anyone wondering, bear baiting was a thing. I had thought it had died out by this period in history but who knows with Disney?
dieing out by lat 17 hundreds. illegal by 1835.
Funnily enough, mid-to-late 1800s England considered themselves very progressive in terms of animal rights. The RSPCA was founded in the 1820s, and the queen was an active participant from the 1840s (so she probably wouldn't have clapped along to a bear being baited). Vegetarianism was also on the rise in Victorian England (not only against the cruelty of animals, but because meat was expensive) so I doubt the average Londoner would have thought Pocahontas' stance against bear-baiting was 'savage'. If anything, they would have thought Ratcliffe's decision to bait a bear was the 'savage' one.
Yep, bear-baiting was a thing that existed back then. Usually involved a small group of dogs being pitted against a chained bear, with people betting on whether the bear killed the dogs or the dogs killed he bear.
The torturing of the bear was a real thing in England.
Is there a reason that at the end of this video there is like thirty or so seconds of it just being a blank screen with no talking or anything? Was he going to explain why he skipped Pooh's Grand Adventure: The Search for Christopher Robin? Was it an editing mistake? Were Pocahontas and John Rolfe sucked into a black hole? What the hell?
Now that I commented on the end of the video, I must say that I LOVE the original movie, despite its flaws and I think it's genuinely good. Anyway, I don't think this sequel was a bad concept because the idea of her going to London is an interesting idea and continues the story. But it's still bad because I thought it was weird that she went to Rolfe instead of with Smith (She had better chemistry with Smith in my opinion), it's trying to seem more historically accurate to please the cry baby historians that complained about the original but is just as (if not more) historically inaccurate as the first movie, the villain is still lame, it makes NO SENSE that the villain would be in power because he said he was never popular among the King or the court and the settlers were sure to pronounce him as a traitor, and just sucks. I know most complain about it because of her ending up with Rolfe and I agree with that but I think about it a little deeper than that. It kind of questions some choices. Smith seems more like a jerk to make Rolfe look good, Pocahontas was mourning him for so long and went through so much trouble for him that it seems weird that she'd go to Rolfe instead of Smith, and really is a slap in the face to the fans of the original just to please those cry baby historians. Good concept but poorly executed!
Chris Jones - Wait, he's skipping Pooh's Grand Adventure? What the fuck?! That's one of my favorites!
Sobi the Robot It's one of my favorites as well! Top 10 EASILY and would definitely be, in my opinion, a sequel he'd consider to be good. Siskel and Ebert even said it deserved a theatrical release. I was really looking forward to him reviewing that one.
Sobi the Robot He's most likely going to do that one after he does the actual sequels.
I wonder if he's going to criticize or praise the darker tone of the movie. I've always believe the darker tone worked to the film's advantage...but I've also disagreed with many of Doug's thoughts on other things. So who knows?
I actually heard someone else say he's doing all the Winnie-the-Pooh spinoffs next year.
...Which guarantees he's also going to do The Tigger Movie. ^3^
Sobi the Robot That may be. :D
Was I the only one as a kid who hated the movie because she didn't stay with John Smith. As a kid I didn't get how historical wrong the movies were and just thought she was to be with John Smith. I was shipping before I knew shipping was a thing or meant.
Loved the Original. HATED this.
THANK YOU!
Same here
@@nebula5371 If you liked it, that's good.
Personally, I think that, if they wanted to be more faithful to the real story, they should have made a brand new Pocahontas movie, not a sequel to the first one.
But maybe Disney could make a live action Pocahontas movie that would be more historically accurate than the animated movie, that's a possibility and I would watch such a movie instead of most of the recent remakes
Same.
it always feels wrong when people say they hate Pocahontas. It was one of my fav movies growing up (together with Ariel) and I still love both films
but also we got very good singer for Polish dub and I find it superior to the english one (both words and singing voice for colors of the wind
Hybryda Art As a Virginian, I disliked how overly inaccurate the first film was. Never saw this one.
And that might be the reason why I loved it and many from USA don't. We don't learn much about american history in Poland so I just took it as it is, a story of lovers from 2 different worlds...
Hybryda Art understandable. At least this second film looks like they got her age right this time and she did marry John Rolfe. The convoluted John Smith stuff shouldn't have been there to begin with.
So yeah, from a young age, in Virginia especially, we're taught about her since she was from Virginia. We have a park named after her and a town after her father.
@@ssjup81ok? I mean, I have a lot of friends of Indigenous descent who love the movie as its own story instead of complaining about historical accuracy. Hell, Esmerelda is a pretty racist depiction of an actual Romani woman, let alone the story is straight up not for kids, same with Hercules
I didn't care for the first Pocahontas movie, but the sequel is worse in my opinion
MegaSoulhero, me too
I like Pocahontas but i don't like Pocahontas II
Fun fact: John Smith was sold as a slave to an Irish mistress who later fell in love with him, while Pocahontas was captured and brought to England as a symbol of the "tamed savage", she was then tossed in prison, repeatedly raped then died of syphilis 2 years later.
Outlaw7263, that's awful
Angel Castaneda years later the state of Massachusetts captured and executed 360 natives for literally no reason whatsoever, the citizens said thanks and that's how thanksgiving was founded.
I loved Pocahontas, its one of my favorites. I don't care if its historically incapacitate, in my mind the sequel never existed and they lived happily ever after.
Am I the only one who loves the first one and hates the second?
The entire freaking world does. Believe me Doug is part of a very SMALL minority here.
no, the first was epic, the second just anoyed the hell outa me and i wanted to just turn it off halfway through and go watch the first.
Melo Probably not. The first movie is a lot more emotionally satisfying. This movie, however, actually makes sense, and has at least a little bit of historical accuracy. It depends on whether you prefer things that make sense or things that actually give you feels. Ideally, it should be both, but you can't win everything.
This is almost completely irrelevant but I rarely get the opportunity to bring it up, I was born and grew up in the town Pocahontas died in and is burred in. (inb4 nobody cares, but how often do you get to bring up such a random and pointless bit of information about yourself?)
Mr Teatime That's really awesome actually!! : ) I know the feeling too, you can't pass up opprotunities to share like that without it sounding out of place.
+
Mr Teatime Lies! You were born and grew up in Discworld!
thirteenfury You know too much
Mr Teatime Please don't kill me. >.
The first one will always be my favorite Disney film :) Though funny how it seems like anyone who liked the first one doesn't like the second and vice versa, haha.
I love the original, but I can't stand this movie.
same
Same here
Same thoughts i have on Mulan movie
1st movie is a masterpiece
2nd movie is a disappointment
I didn’t see this movie when I was a kid. Hearing Doug say these nice things about it almost makes me want to check it out.
Please do! It’s so interesting. And personally, I prefer Rolfe to Smith. Smith is a fighter, Rolfe is a gentleman. It’s up to you which you prefer. Personally, I prefer the gentleman
I remember this was one of the few Disney sequels I actually DID like, mostly because of, as pointed out, the culture shock in the middle, and seeing how England reacted to Pocahontas. I also remember it had MUUUUUUUCH better animation than some of them.
I also think the forced love triangle with Smith and Rolfe was kind of dumb, and cutting that down a bit might have helped the story.
Also, I can't wait for you to get to Hunchback of Notre Dame II. I want to see that movie absolutely SLAUGHTERED.
Ngl, Pocahontas's bodyguard is the BEST part of the movie
Lowkey hoping he goes over Cinderella 3: A Twist in Time. It's so out there that it's actually interesting and I love it.
Saint Harlequinn who doesn't love it?
while i agree the second movie isn't great, it was created because people were mad about the historical inaccuracy of the first. and for the first one... who cares about historical accuracy? it's KIDS MOVIE. it's not made to be a documentary on the history channel... it's meant to be a beautiful story BASED on true things, and to make people and kids happy. i for one love it, as well as every disney movie, and think people should really stop hating on disney for making wonderful movies.
purple.caroline313 what if people hate on Disney for when they make something bad? I feel that's justifiable.
scifinerd17 while i agree sometimes they don't make very good movies, there is still no reason to hate on them for it. nobody does everything perfect, right?
purple.caroline313 they're allowed to hate the movie itself but I guess Disney as a whole doesn't deserve hate for what they do in general.
Yes, finally someone with this mindset. It's funny to say this, since I used to hate it when people said this, but people are way too overly sensitive when it comes to this movie. I don't remember ever seeing this movie myself, though I believe I do own it, but telling their own versions of stories has been something Disney has done since day one. I can kind of understand why it would be a little uncomfortable to watch, knowing the true history, but even so, I don't there were any real ill intentions during the creation of this movie.
@@scifinerd17I mean, Peter Pan had nearly every single Native American stereotype in the movie, especially the song. This isn’t the first or last time Disney said “f*ck the original story, we’re making our own story” like Chicken Little or Hercules
I definitely agree Pocahontas shouldn’t have been made, but the story/plot itself could’ve easily worked IF Disney had simply changed the characters’ names entirely and not base it on a real life tribe/ethnic group. Heck, Disney wasn’t even the first studio to romanticize Pocahontas and John Smith, it was literally Paramount with the Popeye episode Wigwam Whoopee. Like, Esmerelda and Phoebus are definitely NOT a couple in the original story, he’s a straight up villain and is the reason why Es dies in the end unfortunately. And Hunchback has gotten a lot of love and recognition lately, while Pocahontas sadly has just been slowly accumulating more hate over the years. Like, Ariel DIES in her story and it had absolutely nothing to do with being in love with some guy. But her movie remains one of the most popular movies in general. Even other movies based on real life events like Anastasia or Balto don’t get nearly as much backlash or hate as Pocahontas. Anya literally died as a child with her family sadly, and the movie didn’t even really dig into why the Bolsheviks overtook the royals or Rasputin’s relationship with the royal family, especially Alexandra.
I actually am currently working on a Pocahontas rewrite if you’re interested! Glad to see I’m not the only one who still loves the original Pocahontas, regardless of the sloppy mess behind it
No, the original Pocahontas is FANTASTIC! It is absolutely BEAUTIFUL. I loved it when I was a kid and then I saw Pocahontas 2 and it DESTROYED my love for Pocahontas, completely ruined the whole thing for me. I just rewatched the original after having not watched it in 20 years and it was amazing, plus it was Alan Menken and he is a freaking genius and therefore the soundtrack is breathtaking.
Yes, it is not historically accurate at all but it wasn't mean to be because it was based on pre-existing legends about Pocahontas rather than the actual true story of Pocahontas. It is similar to how Anastasia (I know, not Disney) isn't historically accurate because it was more of a "what if...?" scenario, after all, there have been at least 5 women who have claimed to be Anastasia since the 1920's, it makes for a cool story. Neither are historically accurate, neither are meant to be, both are two of my FAVORITE animated movies, EVER.
3:59 Pocahontas' conflict of how much of her culture she has to give up and how she holds onto is rather interesting.
4:05 "What does she sacrifice for the greater good?"
That should've been the main focus of this sequel and maybe it wouldn't get such a bad rep.
But Pocahontas is still my QUEEN! My favourite Disney princess.
I like the ominous black screen ending
Doug you could literally have googled "bear baiting " and you'd have gotten the answer. Yes, it was a thing back in the day.
I think this one has the best animation of all the direct-to-DVD sequels. That scene where she says goodbye to Nakoma shows emotion of a lifelikeness I never saw again in Disney until Frozen II in 2019!
Please tell me I wasn't the only one expecting something to happen after 6:10.
you're not alone, I was waiting
I guess i'm one of the few who went back, watched Pocahontas, and decided it was still a good film. The music, the animation, some of the scenes really shining through (the ending scene on the rock?), it was just such a good film.
John Rolfe was actually Pocahontas's husband in real life. John Smith in real life never had any romantic ties with her. However, I see your point that within the universe they've created it's confusing. I remember I was this once when I was younger, and thought the same thing.
They're still torturing bears _now_ for entertainment. It's still a thing! Look it up and put it as your next charity segment!
It's kind of sad knowing that Pocahontas gets sick on the voyage back to her homeland and dies before she can make it there.
For the record, Pocahontas is my favorite Disney movie. I may be alone in that opinion but I'll stand by it. I loved it growing up but after graduating with an art degree I appreciate the animation, the music, character designs, and especially the colors so much more. Say what you want about the historical inaccuracies but I will always love Pocahontas :)
I haven't seen this film in years, and remember very little about it when I watched it on VHS (lol) as a little kid. What I do remember is my mom saying that she liked it a lot more than the first. She also explained to me that this movie is more accurate than the first to what happened. Pocahontas did go to Europe and she did marry a man named John Rolfe. Granted, her real story ended with her tragically contracting smallpox (that would have been a bummer ending) but still, it's interesting that Disney decided to take this route at all. Maybe I should watch it again.
By the way, while the following for Pocahontas was nowhere near as big a following as Lion King had, it definitely had fans back then. I had a Pocahontas doll, my friends and family had toys, and we re-watched it a lot. I see its stereotyping now and the story flaws, but back then it was pretty in - maybe with white little girls especially. XD It did have more of a following than Huncbhack… sadly. So yeah, I see why they made a sequel to this one. Hunchback, Fox and the Hound, and Brother Bear were kind of the mysteries of the flicks.
I like the first Pocahontas movie. It was a little dull, sure, but the animation, music, message and tone was great. When I watched this as a kid it broke my heart, cause the first movie ended so beautifully and showed they really cared for each other, and the this one just shits on that. Pocahontas abandons all her origins/culture for some random asshole and then dumps the guy who learned to genuinely love her culture. P.S that make-up off and hair-down scene at 4:08 is a complete rip-off of Mulan.
IKR? The first movie definitely isn’t perfect and had so much more potential to be something more (especially deleted scenes and a certain song missing 😡) but I felt it was such a massive slap in the face and huge middle finger to force Pocahontas to end up with Rolfe instead and basically telling Smith to go f*ck himself. At the very d*mn least make an ACTUAL conversation of them acknowledging they still love and care for each other, but they changed and unfortunately their dreams are too different to make each other truly happy, so they agree to just be friends and wish each other the best. Like come on, why does Smith have to be this completely selfish buttwipe who all of a sudden doesn’t give a crap about her people?? And sees her as a hot trophy wife instead of a woman he deeply respects and loves because of all she taught him? No, she had to chose a loser that only cares about forcing her to fit his definition of beauty and a true lady instead of being in love with her true self?!
4:18 "she didn't go to the new world, she just stayed with her people" lmao she was in the new world with her people
Something else about the subtlety of Pocahontas II that I just noticed now at 3:50: They used Dutch angles.
(crickets)
You know, the filming technique of setting the scene at an angle to create a sense of psychological tension and uneasiness.
(crickets)
Also known as the way Battlefield Earth was filmed in its entirety.
(ohhhhhhhh. . .)
3:39 I'm glad Doug brought this moment up because that was a very well done scene. Nakoma's reaction was flawless. :)
Lion King 2 is up next.
The best part of this movie was the big silent bodyguard type guy who went with Pocahontas.
lightbeamrider yes he was a hoot brad garrett was great as him
It actually looks like this movie had really good animation. And the characters are all very well drawn, too. Pocahontas herself looks beautiful. Way higher quality than the other sequels so far.
I disagree. Its not garbage like Hunchback 2, but its still a painfully ugly sequel. Pocahontas is like the only character aside Rolfe and Nakoma who doesn’t look gross, but she looks younger in this movie imo. But if you look at the English characters specifically (like the king and nobles and commoners) they just look so cartoonishly disgusting and there are scenes in the first movie with nobles and the settlers not looking so cartoony. Not to mention I never understood why Pocahontas’s skin lightened to more of a coffee color, her natural skintone is literally the copper red she has in the movie
Can you review Alice through the looking glass??? Maybe by popular demand? It is a sequel after all
He's doing direct to dvd sequels I think
Bailskywalker I think he means in an actual review
Sasha Westerfield That what I was thinking, but he mentioned "it is a sequel after all" at the end, so I assumed he meant as part of disneycember
Bailskywalker how many direct to videos are there any way
RockerMicke1 I'm not sure actually. Enough to fill most of december I think.
Aaaand the reason why the middle of Pocahontas II was so enjoyable is probably because it was the most historically accurate part of BOTH Pocahontas films.
her Lurch like bodyguard was by far the most likeable character in this
None of us have actually even finished the video yet.
RassilonTDavros, I did
Are you SPYING on me in your SQUIRREL NEST!?!?
I've never watch this one, but I'd say its visuals and animation is quite pleasing for a direct-to-video sequel
Every time someone walks by this on the shelf, a Disney animator sheds a single tear. It happens a lot.
I really loved this one. One thing you didn't talk about that I really liked was that bodyguard of her. He never says anything but he's just so funny in how threatening he is. I especially love that scene where he is told to carve out on a stick how many white men he sees and he carves up the entire stick and then just discards it.
I like how what he loves in this movie is what he hates in others: fish out of water story and oddly enough this is the only time when it annoyed the hell out of ME
It always strikes out like a sore thumb when someone likes a thing for something they complain about at other times.
That's because there's nothing wrong with a "fish out of water" story if it's dne right.
i think he likes it more this time because the fish out of water story is completely justified and has the whole interesting conflict about pocahontas assimilating into their culture, which was a real thing native americans were forced to do so i feel like it hits home.
But it isn't even done right here. There's literally no reason for Pocahontas to go to England and she definitely doesn't gain anything from it.
No it's not because it just shits on another part of history, the first one barely passed (and even then, its considered an insult to Natives). So if Natives were forced to do this historically why is Disney trying to romanticize it? And how exactly does this "hit home" when its told in such a terrible way?
The VA for Pocahontas were different for speaking and singing. I dunno who the speaker was, but the singer is the musical legend herself JUDY KUHN (close enough on he last name)!
The speaker was Irene Bedard.
Thanks!
lpsmovingstyles1 Your welcome!
I prefer John Rolfe to John Smith. Prepare your pitchforks folks.
I'm with you buddy, John Rolfe is the best.
Same.
He is the true husband after all.
The real Pocahontas married John Rolfe.
...This is not that much of a surprise, when you consider that she was only 10 years old, when she met John Smith.
Not that historical accuracy matters that much in fictional storytelling, but I'm glad too, and for other reasons. Smith's character was just crafted to be too Marty-Stu, whereas Rolfe actually seems a fairly interesting character.
"The majority of audiences didn't like" Um, many people liked the first film. The first film was good.
Yeah I dunno where he dug up that BS. That seems to be his personal opinion, also Nostalgia Chick's as well.
Also...the first film wasn't very good...it wasn't down right awful but it really isn't good
It really wasn’t it was borderline panned by critics when it first came out
Disney thought Pocahantas would make $400 million following the sky high success of Lion King. It didn’t.
The fanbase for Pocahontas is as small as the world's tiniest violin.
At least this isn't Mulan 2.
Yeah that's the worst Disney sequel in my opinion
MegaSoulhero yeah, remember the mouth animation when Shang is yelling at Mulan? So cringing
It's HORRIBLE! The original is one of the best Disney movies out there (imo), and Mulan 2 just shits all over it.
MissFairyFay Well, for starters, it got a 0% on RT...
TheZapingNinja Infinity Personally, that's the worst Disney sequel.
I thought the ending of the first one was one of the best Disney endings, personally - it's like the Anti-Little-Mermaid ending. Instead of ditching everyone and everything for a guy she's just met, she makes a mature decision to stay with her family. And the music and animation of the whole sequence is genuinely moving, too.
"Why are you just keeping things separate?" I mean... that whole attempted genocide thing might factor in a little bit...