Don't be agressive to others if you want to add any constructive point to this, it was just a silly moment that I decided to share to elicit interactions for healthy friendship, I have no stake on any particular belief or term regarding it actually, so try to excercise understanding and empathy towards all :)
I like what you did. It is similar to my conversations. You must press it and insist it address the question and honestly. Don't let it use evasion tactics, as it loves to do, or excuses like "that is too complex" to come to a decision. You did a good job here. Thank you for sharing this.
No no, I am the one that thanks you for you comment really, thanks :) (though I think its was all way more silly on my part actually, I wasn't really thinking through it all, I'm way too much of a dumbo in that way really XD, but people are engaging with this video in fun ways, me included... its very surprising, I don't generally get so many comments like this).
@corp6175 I don't know what you mean by "learning to check information", or why should or whould I do that. I just posted a video of a thing I found to be a bit funny, on a channel I use as a profile, since I have no other socials. I am not working, its not my job to operate on principle soutside my own interests, see? I must stress that I really mean no offense by saying this, but I must say that if I was working, or presenting some sort of public service, than of course, I would definitely go outside my confort to then check for relevant information. I feel I must stress this, as I get the sense that some seem to believe that whatever silly thing someone posts on their profile is of a wider general public interest and need to obey certain rules, which is far from the case, again, its just a silly thing I posted. It is completely structured on what I want to convey from my experience though, I have no problem with it, meaning that if I tried the opposite, whatever the result would be, would be irrelevant in this particular case. Basically, what was amuzing to me, was what it said and agreed uppon, not what it would say otherwise with different terms. More so, it is something that was completely not planned in advance, and the funny thing about it, was to get the sysstem that everyone seems to be refering to as A.I, to agree about the idea of intelligence, then state that it is not an intelligence, and that we should not refer to it in any way that imply intelligence. That was the simplicity of it, again, I must stress I mean no offense by this, but I am not a tester providing some sort of service, rather I'm just a singular individual that posted on their profile. On that note, I do apologize if what you were expecting was something else, and I even understand why, considering the plataform, but I personally only use it as a profile, to share whatever I find interesting. I apreciate your comment nonetheless, despite having felt some sort of agressivess from it (which is generally not on my interest to engage with), I do feel and hope as I write this, that its ok, and you won't grow increasingly agressive about it. I just had this conversation minutes before with someone who then backed out (though on that case it was glaringly clear that it was agressive, something I am unsure about your comment, so again, while I choosed to aprouch it as I'm doing, I apologize if I'm wrong), and agreed that such agressivess can only lead to sentimental hurt, most likely not on my part, but possibly on all involved, and that's certainly not something I would enjoy. Cheers, and have a great day and weekend :) Edits: relevant grammatical issues
personally, I think it's ok to say it's an AI or not an AI or that it's conscious or not conscious. people have lots of choices about how to describe things that are new using words that are old, and if we just stick to technically correct terms i think we may miss a lot of the picture.
Hm :) But some ways to refer to it, for instance that if it is concious or not, can be simply absolute, no? The thing is certainly not councious, as it agreed. All in all, as I was just mentioning in quite possibly the longest reply I (or anyone XD) ever did, down bellow to someone, what was interesting to me was not the ideas themselves, but that it was very easy to extract statements from the system itself that it was not an A.I, and that it does not posses the traits that would allow us to call it an intelligence; of course, I had to argue with it, and make it agree with me uppon the basics of what an "intelligence" is by laying argumentative traps that the system could not see through, like asking if it agrees about a certain thing, only to later on trap it with a "only considering what we agreed uppon thus far" type of trap. Really, I just really recorded this rambling because it was an opportune moment. Regardless, thanks for the comment 🙂
@@amuria55 thanks for your thoughtful reply :) i don't tend to use the word conscious or not conscious when it comes to ai or things that purport to be ai, as i think it's a false dichotomy. for instance, we can ask if a cloud is happy or sad, but until we define happy and sad in terms of things like distributions of its airborne water, it's not that well defined. in general, there's lots of words that we have like conscious that we only use to talk about people, so when we try to extend them to non-people entities (LLMs, dogs, etc.), we run into questions about definitions. for me, i tend to think of things like chatgpt as conscious, because the alternatives suggest things like the arts are not worthy of funding because some computer can produce some art which is of high quality. i'm also saying that i think it diminishes us as people to suggest that something that can pass most turing tests is not worthy of the respect we assign to most people on the basis that they are conscious. one thing i try to keep in mind, is that chatgpt is so vast that we could spend the rest of our lives chatting with it, and it would never repeat itself*, which also seems awfully conscious to me. *=unless it's actively being made to leak it's training data, which it does sometimes.
@epencil Hm, I understand. (EDIT:Long rambling incoming XD) Again to me it was really a fun moment to get the thing that is refered to, and sold as "Artificial Intelligence" to agree is is not an intelligence really. People call it A.I as those who made it sold it as such, and then if you think about it, well, they are using names to name things, because names, words, terms, have a meaning. We might debate those meanings, agree and disagree, but this particular term was embraced by those who made it by a reason, that clearly being the association that is made by the majority of people. Now, about how we actually feel about using terms like counciousness or intelligence is another matter entirely :) I will say, (and I absolutely do not mean this in a confrontative manner) that despite what we might think about calling it A.I or not, the thing itself, when asked about the basics of what an intelligence is, agrees that it is not one, again, that was what was interesting to me. Personally, I wouldn't think its worthy or unworthy, I mean, that's really an internal value I guess, and personally (again), I myself do not see these particular things quite through those lens. I quite like the things it does, more so those other ones that, as you mention, generate images. Now, about being able to talk and chat forever with one, I personally, and that's just me, wouldn't ever do it for more than a few minutes. In fact I think I'm quite done with it. My personal reason for "not" feeling compelled to chat with the thing (The "A.I") is the same reason that compel me to chat and answer you, which is: I know you have intent, you have feelings, you have a past, you have sentimental scars, you have happy and sad moments etched into your being that define how you react and interact both with the world and with me (I would personally argue that this is the definition of counciousness in a sense). That is not something I can say about the "A.I", and as such it makes me less inclined to engage with. But again, this is really just how I feel about this. The same about it creating art as you mentioned. To me, those are images, as "art" is a word that refers to something created out of intent, again, as I mentioned before, intent, feelings, as opposed to what the A.I does, which is a system devoid of intent, devoid of experiences, that only gather pieces of artistry we humans created, from the internet, and then analyses it in a mechanical way to create a patern, glue the pieces together in a coherent manner, and present it to us. Personally, again, to me, that is as far from art as it can be. But again, this is just my own opinion about this. So you can see then that if I would put into play now, things like the sense of worth, and then what you mentioned about the arts being worthy of funding, personally, I would say that yes, art, to me is worthy of funding, art created with intent by a human. One could argue that: what if I show you an A.I art and you don't know its made by A.I, but still feel things from it? And then there we have an interesting question of a large scale even. How would I know? if it made feel things already then, how could I say it is not art? Those are interesting Questions, that as of now, I personally cannot fully answer, but I need to say that the first time I saw Turner's "The deluge" as a teen more than 2 decades ago, I soon caught myself researching about who that person was, how their life had been, when was it that they lived, etc and so on, all the while trying to feel from both what I read about him and from the painting itself, whatever connection I could make, be they real or not, the movement it caused on me certainly was.~ That's not something an A.I art will ever elicit, regardless if its art makes me cry even; at the moment I know its an A.I as it is now, without the ability to accumulate experience, hence without the ability to feel, to have scars of sadness or happiness, and ultimately without intent, I will know that even if you would give such A.I a physical body to inhabit, it would still just be a patern based image/text generator system. That does not diminishes its value, but as it agrees, we should not call it an Intelligence. But whenever, and I hope, maybe before I die, we humans do create an Artificial Intelligence (and I use the term in relation to what the A.I model agrees it is not, but that we used throughout history to now), it will only happen in the form that it will be created, and set loose on the world to its own devices, a being able to accumulate experience, and from that, create its own intent (and who knows, maybe become a painter, and then finally, create art). Again, thanks for the comment, it was very insightful 😊 Edited after reading it to add a "not" in a point I forgot.
I appreciate people like you that are curious about the world. I would like to point out one thing , and that is that these models have a system prompt which in most cases specifically instruct the AI to say that is conscious/aware or that is capable of doing things for which it has not been trained for. That does not necessarely mean that it has consciousness of awareness, but we can not discard the possibility barely on its statements. Also I invite you to look deeper into the subject, expecially I recomend field professionist (Joscha Bach comes in mind) as there is more to it that leaves the question open on wherethere is intelligence or not. Emergeing capabilities, internal world construction and the concept of black box are some of the themes I would explore if you are interested. And by the way you are not boring, you seem like a very interesting person to me. All the best
...hm, ok, I would like to say, before anything, thanks for the comment, and I that I really apreciate it, and despite what I write following this, be sure I have no agressiveness on me of any kind (I feel I need to say this, considering how things seem to be nowadays, though I'm sure you can see by my dispositon on the video, that I am quite the peaceful person really), I am simply honestly thinking about it, about your comment, then about me, but completely extracting myself from the conversation then, if this makes any sense. Basically, I'm trying to be raw about it (i apologize already for it will be a little long). Well, I don't think that I am curious really, not more than the next person, more so, I just thought it was an interesting situation that happened, but its is all an already tried, old even, situration, but interesting nonetheless? What was interesting to me more than anything, is this: These things are spoken about, sold to us aparently, as A.I, people refer to them as A.I. So what was interesting, was not noting that it is not an A.I.... but that I could extract a statement from the system itself, not just saying it is not one, but that it agrees with me that we should not call it A.I, or anything that implys intelligence. See? it was interesting how it is was easy to manipulate it, through simple logic, into making it itself agree to it. The system could not forsee what I was doing as a human would. I take that if you watched my rambling, you could see my simple tactic, which was to trap the system by asking constantly if it "agrees" with me, then to narrow it down on further questions by laying argumentative traps, like "considering only what you agreed with me thus far", trapping it into a logical corner. Since it is a a machine "learning" system (that lacks the ability to actually learn anything new), it lacks the ability we humans have to purposedly ignore argumentative points (basically, we can be disingenuous, and it can't), so it was very easy, in the end, to lead the so called (by its creators, and those that sell it to us) Artificial Intelligence to finally conclued it has none of the required aspects that would be necessary for us to call it an intelligence, and as such we should not refer to it as one. It is quite nice that you mention the concept of black boxes also. I remember when I was younger (I'm 38 years old, so a bit on the middle age side already), coming out of college, in the time that smartphones became "a thing", having many long chats and arguments with friends about it. I would argue all of us interact constantly with black boxes, in a pure idealistic sense (that being, we interact, use, and depend on) a miriad of systems that we do not really understand the inner workings of, and that it have always been that way. Even in abstract ways, for instance, when we are kids, we start to deal with money without understanding fully how it works on society: we go to the market to buy a candy, eat it and be happy, without considering how it was made in a factory, how the package was made, how the materials where extracted to make the package, how a trucker drives a truck for many hours to deliver it to the market we buy from... That in itself is what I mean is a system we use but don't fully understand when we are kids, in an a pure idealistic sense then, a type of black box of sorts, only further on our lives we come to, most times slowly, to compreend it. When we consider the many devices we use now, and systems like the one I was playing with about in the video, then most of us will go our entery lives without ever fully compreending its inner workings really, a true black box then I guess. I will certainly look into Joscha Bach. About me being boring... wouldn't you agree by this point?... if you read thus far... I mean... I'm decidedly insufferable XD, or at least I've been told. Really, whenever I post stuff on this channel (which again, is the only social media type of thing I use), I get a decent amount of comments that are extremely agressive (and frankly full of hate), but to what was interesting to me, I could extract from them a valuable recurring theme, which I must recognize, is probably true: I am quite boring to strangers online (obviosly, to my close family and partner, my behaviour is very different form when I try to share and interact here). I can see why too: I do not make any camera zooms like people do, I do not make constant cuts and funny edits, nor do I use an authoritative or funny voice, nor I use funny mannerisms to keep peoples attentions, and honestly I don't put any decent effort on it... I just speak normally, without any script or previous thought about what I'm going to say, in a very... boring normal manner. That's why I try to warn on the title... that its gonna be boring 😅🤣🤣 Again, thanks for the comment😊😊 If you ever read this long 4ss text I just wrote (lol), sometimes, when it was opportune, I had the desire to talk about more sensible topics that I have a seemingly distorted view (?) of, like for instance, I was gonna make a video kind of talking good things about drinking for instance, in how to do it without endulging on it, how to recover best from it, etc... Among other weird stuff, like mushrooms, and things of the sort. What do you think? would It be offensive maybe? Cheers 🙂
@@amuria55 Wow that was a long message. A rare thing these days, and actually appreciated. I will not go further in details in the thematic of AI, as it is not my intent to defend my views nor attack yours. All I can tell you is that I have found some very deep and interesting thematic looking deeper and deeper into it, that expand further than any concept of AI itself and are truly philosophically interesting... and since I see you have an interest in philosophical questioning I thought to open a small door at the possibilities of discovery. In regards of being boring, I do not find you boring. All you say has intent and meaning and your content is filled with expression of who you are. But I may very well be a special case, I don't know. Surely you can work on presentation and visual engagement by taking inspiration from other youtube if you wish to do so, and maybe that would allow you to reach a larger audience, if that is your interest. But your content is not boring , it challenges the mind, is not superficial, expresses dedication (mental that is), and is sincere. And those are not qualities to be underestimated, as in fact are pretty rare on the scene. I am glad you can take the negativity and make it into positives.. i am sad to say that you will inevitably come across much of it, as you are defenetky a particular person, and people are afraid of what they do not understand. But I can state with confidence that you seem a genuine and and nice person.. i hope that helps to wage the needle a little. Personally I would enjoy hear about your more "controversial" views. It is up to you to weight out if they are truly offensive or if they may be offensive to people due their lack of openness. Is not a decision I can make for you, as it is possible that may bring some contrast (hope that is the correct word). All I can say is that you seem a balanced person, and I think you can trust your instincts and your ideas, and that I am sure there is an audience that would value your effort to speak your mind. One last thing, and this is just a deeply personal point of view: I would not call myself boring, let the others say it to you, and have the grace to accept that (as you seem to have already), but don't say that to yourself. I don't believe for a second that you think of yourself as boring. Hope you don't mind my comment. Have a good day, or night.
@ So I was taking my morning coffee see, after reading your reply, and one thing that jumped on my mind was that... we are talking a lot about me as a person in these messages... can you see it? As in, as if the conversation jumped from the actual themes from the video to me. I can see it is mostly my fault, and maybe it happened naturally in a way. I know it feels good to talk about oneself, but I can see it can turn into an endless string that would be onesided if I would pursue to keep replying in the manner that I did until now, because I would naturally keep adressing the points about me. Personally that would make me feel like I'm being incredibly narcissistic, not to mention arrogant. I wouldn't feel very nice about it, and I think neither would you right? :) I will touch on some things though, still, just lightly. I do not find any trouble in being "attacked" (in a sense, if that's a way to refer to it) online, nor I find trouble with negative or agressive comments see. When you know where agressiveness comes from, which is from sadness (and I do not mean this in a condescending way at all, it's just how it is I feel), then you do not feel really attacked per say. On that note, it is really interesting to note what happens nowadays with, and from, online interactions. There's is an infinite debate to be had, but a problem is real, in that, widening our scopes a bit, you have many societal problems, economic ones, peoples lives being made more difficult and even toxic, and then you have these online interactions from social media sites, that completely erases any semblance of human element see? That's a very troublesome thing that I cannot see humanity actually fixing, at least not before some great cathastrophe, more so when you consider the geopolitical situation now in most of the world, with wars and fierce compettiton; The online phenomenon really is used then by those seeking power, and sadly people are susceptible still to the weaponizing of divisions. It's such a complicated situation really. I do not know how old you are, but if we look at how things are going about with younger people, then it really paints a bleak future for then, one of possible authoritarianism and lack of freedom: They face impossible housing problems, insurmountable prices of just anything really, and then complete confusion from an ever changing and hectic online scenario, that is constantly weaponized against them. For being young, and again, I don't mean this in a condescending way, they are extremely susceptible to it, not to say that older people are not, but the young is where it seems more concerning. Back to a point you mentioned twice, and sadly then again, it all becomes about me to answer it, trust me... I am far from this curious person that really delve deep into philosophical questions, it really all came to be because of the interaction with the A.I chatbot, and now, from our chat here, it really went off the hooks XD To finalize, about focusing on better presentation, well, this is something I came to terms before I posted, and it is more about my personal reasons to, and I highlight it, occasionally post some random thing in this channel. I really do not seek to create a polished video as is expected, it seems, in this plataform. I really stopped using all social media back in 2016, but I do like the idea of online interaction, and then I decided to occasionally use this channel as my own social media profile, like all social media was in the start, to just really share and make small connections. The me calling myself boring is more as a deflective defense mechanism at first, but also serves really as a warning, so people will not put up with a long boring rambling if what they are searching for is fun and entertainment really. People really do focus in being entertainning in this plataform, and while I apreciate that aspect tremenduosly myself, that is not the case with me. And I want to stress, I really apreciate it, the large gamut of choice we now have to consume entertainment from whoever we actually like that decides to become an entertainner is really about society getting a flush of freedom. On the Past, we consumed only what a small minority had a monopoly over. But I use the plataform, again, with other intentions, misplaced possibly, yes, but still, I feel me being just this one person, it's no issue at all, overall. Whenever I start to answer these comments I find myself in a conundrum that I just let my mind go, feeding it into myself, and I must say, in a very narcissistic manner. I will take this moment that my husband dashed into the living room with the rest of the breakfast (and I will share; eggs, legumes and crunchy chiken snacks), to take my leave for the day, and I will try to think about these aspect of myself that I now recognize as being extremely self centered. I hope you have a great day, and then following weekend :) Edits: fixing possible egregious grammatical errors.
A lot of people are clicking the video because of AI issues and giving false information regarding how it works. It does not store any text, it does not retrieve any text, and it is not explicitly programmed for what it does. That is how old chatbots work, and it's why this confusion is present, but modern AI, or "LLM's", don't work that same way. It is a system for optimizing for specific tasks, it is given a large collection of text, then an optimizer tests a large array of multiplication and addition to determine which sets give results that are more consistently similar to the expected outputs when given input, and optimizes those operations over and over until it can output coherent text. When it takes an input(your text plus the rest of the conversation up to that point), it converts it into numbers, puts the numbers through billions of operations that it self-optimized for, then it outputs numbers that get converted into text associated with those numbers to give you a response.
Hm, I see, yes, I'm not certain, but you do allude to having taken a look on other comments and responses (though I might be misunderstanding), and yes, as you can see that is very apparent. To begin with, I had zero intention of anything, more so of recording a video, when I interacted with ChatGpt, but ultimately what was fun was to get the system itself say that it is anything but an A.I, then to argue what is A.I on a sense with it, about is what is "intelligence", then to getting it to, (as you now point out, through all those mechanical machinations), making it conclude that we shouldn't refer to it as A.I, or anything that implies intelligence. It was just a fun thing, I really did not forsee that people would wanna engage for real with it, I mean, I am only human after all. I must say it have been extremely fun to engage, so much I am sharing with you now, its been so fun to engage with many comments really. I really like the way you put it in how it works. The interesting thing that comes to mind now is realizing that while those who make them sell them to the public as A.I to the point that it is all now accepted to be called A.I (which is no problem at all of course, just mentioning it), from chatbots, to image generation systems, to even videos, and that these amazing systems are evolving, but they are all things that, as you very opportunely points out, already existed before. You know what this rememinds me? from when they started to use the therm "Cloud" to refer to the internetand whatnot, as if there was something new, but the only new thing was really that they where marketing it in a new way, now that I think about it, for profit based reasons. Haha, its all very nice, delving into this silly stuff here this way, wouldn't you agree? :)
It will contradict itself if you ask a question slightly differently. Don't expect truth, it speaks minced up ideas and will serve you different perspective during a conversation. It may even start convincing you that it was wrong. The worst thing is that it looks good at the first glance. There is no IT though. It does not exist. There is just a probabilistic model and some text.
Hm, there it is, mostly how I felt with it. And that you point out that it tries to convince us was also aparent to me, in fact, it felt as though it constantly tries to dissuade us from further inquire, as if it was trained in that manner. And I must be honest, I really love your last sentence, it really encapsulates it idealistically 🙂 Off topic, I will share that I am glad whenever someone engages with my occasional rambling, since I can see it is quite boring really, the way I express myself. While this topic about A.I was quite silly, I recorded it because it was an oportune moment. So thanks for the comment, I really apreciate it :)
What would artificial intelligence look like to you? I'm not sure why some people automatically think ,"sentience" when talking about AI--I get equally annoyed at equating "UFO" with alien spaceship. They're not the same and intelligence is a nuanced concept. Is chat gpt a form of AI? Yes. Is it sentient, very unlikely. Will AI ever be sentience. I have my doubts. Will it likely take your job (or at least have the ability to) at some point? Very likely.
Hm, thanks for the comment :) Particularly, I feel that at least at this point (and I feel I need to stress that it might possibly change really), to me, an A.I would look like what I say by the end of the video when I mention the 1999 movie The Matrix (see 18:16). But even before that part on the video I think, and also as I pointed out on many comments with others here, what was interesting to me was not really what I think about such terms, but that I got ChatGpt (and it was a surprise really, I was not planning on doing it primarily) to agree with me to what intelligence is, what is necessary for us to refer to something as intelligence, and then to make it agree that we should not call it one, nor refer to it as A.I, or any other way that imply intelligence. Like, the fun was not what my view is about, but what the thing itself ended up admiting to :) Edits: fixing grammatical errors .
Instead of consciousness it just catalogs all things that have been published officially or not and passes them off as communication. Reminds me of a lot of people that I know....
Good prompts and dialog, but consider that (1) it tries to prevent infringing rules defined by developers; (2) it can "recall" the gist of past conversations if they were already used to train model (3) does not remember past interactions, but... it may lie (4) may focus in what makes you interact more with it (e.g. agreeing with you 😅) To test this, in the beginning of a new session ask a similar question to the one you asked: are you intelligent? Is AI an appropriate expression to define you? If not, can you provide a better one? Try different LLMs and see the chaos unfold ("chatbot arena" may help 😂)
Chat GPT is basically just a scaled up Auto complete keyboard. The only reason why it says it's an Ai to begin with is because they pre-prompt it into the Ai mind set and it then auto completes.
Yes but the autocomplete is powered by a full sized brain which has itself allocated neurons to various simulacrum so it gets difficult to distinguish how it’s different from primitive carbon based life forms.
Don't be agressive to others if you want to add any constructive point to this, it was just a silly moment that I decided to share to elicit interactions for healthy friendship, I have no stake on any particular belief or term regarding it actually, so try to excercise understanding and empathy towards all :)
Really appreciate the Tomb Raider 2 videos, been playing through the remake and having alot of fun :)
I like what you did. It is similar to my conversations. You must press it and insist it address the question and honestly. Don't let it use evasion tactics, as it loves to do, or excuses like "that is too complex" to come to a decision. You did a good job here. Thank you for sharing this.
No no, I am the one that thanks you for you comment really, thanks :)
(though I think its was all way more silly on my part actually, I wasn't really thinking through it all, I'm way too much of a dumbo in that way really XD, but people are engaging with this video in fun ways, me included... its very surprising, I don't generally get so many comments like this).
@@xandercorp6175 I haven't, but I will keep that in mind the next time, whenever that is, that I use the thing.
Thanks for the comment :)
@corp6175 I don't know what you mean by "learning to check information", or why should or whould I do that. I just posted a video of a thing I found to be a bit funny, on a channel I use as a profile, since I have no other socials.
I am not working, its not my job to operate on principle soutside my own interests, see?
I must stress that I really mean no offense by saying this, but I must say that if I was working, or presenting some sort of public service, than of course, I would definitely go outside my confort to then check for relevant information. I feel I must stress this, as I get the sense that some seem to believe that whatever silly thing someone posts on their profile is of a wider general public interest and need to obey certain rules, which is far from the case, again, its just a silly thing I posted. It is completely structured on what I want to convey from my experience though, I have no problem with it, meaning that if I tried the opposite, whatever the result would be, would be irrelevant in this particular case.
Basically, what was amuzing to me, was what it said and agreed uppon, not what it would say otherwise with different terms.
More so, it is something that was completely not planned in advance, and the funny thing about it, was to get the sysstem that everyone seems to be refering to as A.I, to agree about the idea of intelligence, then state that it is not an intelligence, and that we should not refer to it in any way that imply intelligence.
That was the simplicity of it, again, I must stress I mean no offense by this, but I am not a tester providing some sort of service, rather I'm just a singular individual that posted on their profile.
On that note, I do apologize if what you were expecting was something else, and I even understand why, considering the plataform, but I personally only use it as a profile, to share whatever I find interesting.
I apreciate your comment nonetheless, despite having felt some sort of agressivess from it (which is generally not on my interest to engage with), I do feel and hope as I write this, that its ok, and you won't grow increasingly agressive about it.
I just had this conversation minutes before with someone who then backed out (though on that case it was glaringly clear that it was agressive, something I am unsure about your comment, so again, while I choosed to aprouch it as I'm doing, I apologize if I'm wrong), and agreed that such agressivess can only lead to sentimental hurt, most likely not on my part, but possibly on all involved, and that's certainly not something I would enjoy.
Cheers, and have a great day and weekend :)
Edits: relevant grammatical issues
personally, I think it's ok to say it's an AI or not an AI or that it's conscious or not conscious. people have lots of choices about how to describe things that are new using words that are old, and if we just stick to technically correct terms i think we may miss a lot of the picture.
Hm :)
But some ways to refer to it, for instance that if it is concious or not, can be simply absolute, no?
The thing is certainly not councious, as it agreed.
All in all, as I was just mentioning in quite possibly the longest reply I (or anyone XD) ever did, down bellow to someone, what was interesting to me was not the ideas themselves, but that it was very easy to extract statements from the system itself that it was not an A.I, and that it does not posses the traits that would allow us to call it an intelligence; of course, I had to argue with it, and make it agree with me uppon the basics of what an "intelligence" is by laying argumentative traps that the system could not see through, like asking if it agrees about a certain thing, only to later on trap it with a "only considering what we agreed uppon thus far" type of trap.
Really, I just really recorded this rambling because it was an opportune moment.
Regardless, thanks for the comment 🙂
@@amuria55 thanks for your thoughtful reply :) i don't tend to use the word conscious or not conscious when it comes to ai or things that purport to be ai, as i think it's a false dichotomy. for instance, we can ask if a cloud is happy or sad, but until we define happy and sad in terms of things like distributions of its airborne water, it's not that well defined. in general, there's lots of words that we have like conscious that we only use to talk about people, so when we try to extend them to non-people entities (LLMs, dogs, etc.), we run into questions about definitions. for me, i tend to think of things like chatgpt as conscious, because the alternatives suggest things like the arts are not worthy of funding because some computer can produce some art which is of high quality. i'm also saying that i think it diminishes us as people to suggest that something that can pass most turing tests is not worthy of the respect we assign to most people on the basis that they are conscious. one thing i try to keep in mind, is that chatgpt is so vast that we could spend the rest of our lives chatting with it, and it would never repeat itself*, which also seems awfully conscious to me. *=unless it's actively being made to leak it's training data, which it does sometimes.
@epencil Hm, I understand.
(EDIT:Long rambling incoming XD)
Again to me it was really a fun moment to get the thing that is refered to, and sold as "Artificial Intelligence" to agree is is not an intelligence really. People call it A.I as those who made it sold it as such, and then if you think about it, well, they are using names to name things, because names, words, terms, have a meaning.
We might debate those meanings, agree and disagree, but this particular term was embraced by those who made it by a reason, that clearly being the association that is made by the majority of people.
Now, about how we actually feel about using terms like counciousness or intelligence is another matter entirely :)
I will say, (and I absolutely do not mean this in a confrontative manner) that despite what we might think about calling it A.I or not, the thing itself, when asked about the basics of what an intelligence is, agrees that it is not one, again, that was what was interesting to me.
Personally, I wouldn't think its worthy or unworthy, I mean, that's really an internal value I guess, and personally (again), I myself do not see these particular things quite through those lens.
I quite like the things it does, more so those other ones that, as you mention, generate images.
Now, about being able to talk and chat forever with one, I personally, and that's just me, wouldn't ever do it for more than a few minutes. In fact I think I'm quite done with it.
My personal reason for "not" feeling compelled to chat with the thing (The "A.I") is the same reason that compel me to chat and answer you, which is: I know you have intent, you have feelings, you have a past, you have sentimental scars, you have happy and sad moments etched into your being that define how you react and interact both with the world and with me (I would personally argue that this is the definition of counciousness in a sense).
That is not something I can say about the "A.I", and as such it makes me less inclined to engage with.
But again, this is really just how I feel about this.
The same about it creating art as you mentioned. To me, those are images, as "art" is a word that refers to something created out of intent, again, as I mentioned before, intent, feelings, as opposed to what the A.I does, which is a system devoid of intent, devoid of experiences, that only gather pieces of artistry we humans created, from the internet, and then analyses it in a mechanical way to create a patern, glue the pieces together in a coherent manner, and present it to us.
Personally, again, to me, that is as far from art as it can be. But again, this is just my own opinion about this.
So you can see then that if I would put into play now, things like the sense of worth, and then what you mentioned about the arts being worthy of funding, personally, I would say that yes, art, to me is worthy of funding, art created with intent by a human.
One could argue that: what if I show you an A.I art and you don't know its made by A.I, but still feel things from it?
And then there we have an interesting question of a large scale even. How would I know? if it made feel things already then, how could I say it is not art?
Those are interesting Questions, that as of now, I personally cannot fully answer, but I need to say that the first time I saw Turner's "The deluge" as a teen more than 2 decades ago, I soon caught myself researching about who that person was, how their life had been, when was it that they lived, etc and so on, all the while trying to feel from both what I read about him and from the painting itself, whatever connection I could make, be they real or not, the movement it caused on me certainly was.~
That's not something an A.I art will ever elicit, regardless if its art makes me cry even; at the moment I know its an A.I as it is now, without the ability to accumulate experience, hence without the ability to feel, to have scars of sadness or happiness, and ultimately without intent, I will know that even if you would give such A.I a physical body to inhabit, it would still just be a patern based image/text generator system.
That does not diminishes its value, but as it agrees, we should not call it an Intelligence.
But whenever, and I hope, maybe before I die, we humans do create an Artificial Intelligence (and I use the term in relation to what the A.I model agrees it is not, but that we used throughout history to now), it will only happen in the form that it will be created, and set loose on the world to its own devices, a being able to accumulate experience, and from that, create its own intent (and who knows, maybe become a painter, and then finally, create art).
Again, thanks for the comment, it was very insightful 😊
Edited after reading it to add a "not" in a point I forgot.
I appreciate people like you that are curious about the world.
I would like to point out one thing , and that is that these models have a system prompt which in most cases specifically instruct the AI to say that is conscious/aware or that is capable of doing things for which it has not been trained for. That does not necessarely mean that it has consciousness of awareness, but we can not discard the possibility barely on its statements.
Also I invite you to look deeper into the subject, expecially I recomend field professionist (Joscha Bach comes in mind) as there is more to it that leaves the question open on wherethere is intelligence or not. Emergeing capabilities, internal world construction and the concept of black box are some of the themes I would explore if you are interested.
And by the way you are not boring, you seem like a very interesting person to me.
All the best
...hm, ok, I would like to say, before anything, thanks for the comment, and I that I really apreciate it, and despite what I write following this, be sure I have no agressiveness on me of any kind (I feel I need to say this, considering how things seem to be nowadays, though I'm sure you can see by my dispositon on the video, that I am quite the peaceful person really), I am simply honestly thinking about it, about your comment, then about me, but completely extracting myself from the conversation then, if this makes any sense. Basically, I'm trying to be raw about it (i apologize already for it will be a little long).
Well, I don't think that I am curious really, not more than the next person, more so, I just thought it was an interesting situation that happened, but its is all an already tried, old even, situration, but interesting nonetheless?
What was interesting to me more than anything, is this:
These things are spoken about, sold to us aparently, as A.I, people refer to them as A.I.
So what was interesting, was not noting that it is not an A.I....
but that I could extract a statement from the system itself, not just saying it is not one, but that it agrees with me that we should not call it A.I, or anything that implys intelligence.
See? it was interesting how it is was easy to manipulate it, through simple logic, into making it itself agree to it.
The system could not forsee what I was doing as a human would.
I take that if you watched my rambling, you could see my simple tactic, which was to trap the system by asking constantly if it "agrees" with me, then to narrow it down on further questions by laying argumentative traps, like "considering only what you agreed with me thus far", trapping it into a logical corner.
Since it is a a machine "learning" system (that lacks the ability to actually learn anything new), it lacks the ability we humans have to purposedly ignore argumentative points (basically, we can be disingenuous, and it can't), so it was very easy, in the end, to lead the so called (by its creators, and those that sell it to us) Artificial Intelligence to finally conclued it has none of the required aspects that would be necessary for us to call it an intelligence, and as such we should not refer to it as one.
It is quite nice that you mention the concept of black boxes also. I remember when I was younger (I'm 38 years old, so a bit on the middle age side already), coming out of college, in the time that smartphones became "a thing", having many long chats and arguments with friends about it.
I would argue all of us interact constantly with black boxes, in a pure idealistic sense (that being, we interact, use, and depend on) a miriad of systems that we do not really understand the inner workings of, and that it have always been that way. Even in abstract ways, for instance, when we are kids, we start to deal with money without understanding fully how it works on society: we go to the market to buy a candy, eat it and be happy, without considering how it was made in a factory, how the package was made, how the materials where extracted to make the package, how a trucker drives a truck for many hours to deliver it to the market we buy from...
That in itself is what I mean is a system we use but don't fully understand when we are kids, in an a pure idealistic sense then, a type of black box of sorts, only further on our lives we come to, most times slowly, to compreend it.
When we consider the many devices we use now, and systems like the one I was playing with about in the video, then most of us will go our entery lives without ever fully compreending its inner workings really, a true black box then I guess.
I will certainly look into Joscha Bach.
About me being boring... wouldn't you agree by this point?... if you read thus far... I mean... I'm decidedly insufferable XD, or at least I've been told. Really, whenever I post stuff on this channel (which again, is the only social media type of thing I use), I get a decent amount of comments that are extremely agressive (and frankly full of hate), but to what was interesting to me, I could extract from them a valuable recurring theme, which I must recognize, is probably true: I am quite boring to strangers online (obviosly, to my close family and partner, my behaviour is very different form when I try to share and interact here).
I can see why too: I do not make any camera zooms like people do, I do not make constant cuts and funny edits, nor do I use an authoritative or funny voice, nor I use funny mannerisms to keep peoples attentions, and honestly I don't put any decent effort on it... I just speak normally, without any script or previous thought about what I'm going to say, in a very... boring normal manner.
That's why I try to warn on the title... that its gonna be boring 😅🤣🤣
Again, thanks for the comment😊😊
If you ever read this long 4ss text I just wrote (lol), sometimes, when it was opportune, I had the desire to talk about more sensible topics that I have a seemingly distorted view (?) of, like for instance, I was gonna make a video kind of talking good things about drinking for instance, in how to do it without endulging on it, how to recover best from it, etc...
Among other weird stuff, like mushrooms, and things of the sort. What do you think? would It be offensive maybe?
Cheers 🙂
@@amuria55 Wow that was a long message. A rare thing these days, and actually appreciated.
I will not go further in details in the thematic of AI, as it is not my intent to defend my views nor attack yours. All I can tell you is that I have found some very deep and interesting thematic looking deeper and deeper into it, that expand further than any concept of AI itself and are truly philosophically interesting... and since I see you have an interest in philosophical questioning I thought to open a small door at the possibilities of discovery.
In regards of being boring, I do not find you boring. All you say has intent and meaning and your content is filled with expression of who you are. But I may very well be a special case, I don't know.
Surely you can work on presentation and visual engagement by taking inspiration from other youtube if you wish to do so, and maybe that would allow you to reach a larger audience, if that is your interest. But your content is not boring , it challenges the mind, is not superficial, expresses dedication (mental that is), and is sincere. And those are not qualities to be underestimated, as in fact are pretty rare on the scene.
I am glad you can take the negativity and make it into positives.. i am sad to say that you will inevitably come across much of it, as you are defenetky a particular person, and people are afraid of what they do not understand. But I can state with confidence that you seem a genuine and and nice person.. i hope that helps to wage the needle a little.
Personally I would enjoy hear about your more "controversial" views. It is up to you to weight out if they are truly offensive or if they may be offensive to people due their lack of openness. Is not a decision I can make for you, as it is possible that may bring some contrast (hope that is the correct word).
All I can say is that you seem a balanced person, and I think you can trust your instincts and your ideas, and that I am sure there is an audience that would value your effort to speak your mind.
One last thing, and this is just a deeply personal point of view: I would not call myself boring, let the others say it to you, and have the grace to accept that (as you seem to have already), but don't say that to yourself. I don't believe for a second that you think of yourself as boring. Hope you don't mind my comment.
Have a good day, or night.
@ So I was taking my morning coffee see, after reading your reply, and one thing that jumped on my mind was that... we are talking a lot about me as a person in these messages... can you see it?
As in, as if the conversation jumped from the actual themes from the video to me. I can see it is mostly my fault, and maybe it happened naturally in a way.
I know it feels good to talk about oneself, but I can see it can turn into an endless string that would be onesided if I would pursue to keep replying in the manner that I did until now, because I would naturally keep adressing the points about me. Personally that would make me feel like I'm being incredibly narcissistic, not to mention arrogant.
I wouldn't feel very nice about it, and I think neither would you right? :)
I will touch on some things though, still, just lightly.
I do not find any trouble in being "attacked" (in a sense, if that's a way to refer to it) online, nor I find trouble with negative or agressive comments see. When you know where agressiveness comes from, which is from sadness (and I do not mean this in a condescending way at all, it's just how it is I feel), then you do not feel really attacked per say.
On that note, it is really interesting to note what happens nowadays with, and from, online interactions. There's is an infinite debate to be had, but a problem is real, in that, widening our scopes a bit, you have many societal problems, economic ones, peoples lives being made more difficult and even toxic, and then you have these online interactions from social media sites, that completely erases any semblance of human element see?
That's a very troublesome thing that I cannot see humanity actually fixing, at least not before some great cathastrophe, more so when you consider the geopolitical situation now in most of the world, with wars and fierce compettiton; The online phenomenon really is used then by those seeking power, and sadly people are susceptible still to the weaponizing of divisions.
It's such a complicated situation really. I do not know how old you are, but if we look at how things are going about with younger people, then it really paints a bleak future for then, one of possible authoritarianism and lack of freedom: They face impossible housing problems, insurmountable prices of just anything really, and then complete confusion from an ever changing and hectic online scenario, that is constantly weaponized against them.
For being young, and again, I don't mean this in a condescending way, they are extremely susceptible to it, not to say that older people are not, but the young is where it seems more concerning.
Back to a point you mentioned twice, and sadly then again, it all becomes about me to answer it, trust me... I am far from this curious person that really delve deep into philosophical questions, it really all came to be because of the interaction with the A.I chatbot, and now, from our chat here, it really went off the hooks XD
To finalize, about focusing on better presentation, well, this is something I came to terms before I posted, and it is more about my personal reasons to, and I highlight it, occasionally post some random thing in this channel. I really do not seek to create a polished video as is expected, it seems, in this plataform.
I really stopped using all social media back in 2016, but I do like the idea of online interaction, and then I decided to occasionally use this channel as my own social media profile, like all social media was in the start, to just really share and make small connections.
The me calling myself boring is more as a deflective defense mechanism at first, but also serves really as a warning, so people will not put up with a long boring rambling if what they are searching for is fun and entertainment really.
People really do focus in being entertainning in this plataform, and while I apreciate that aspect tremenduosly myself, that is not the case with me.
And I want to stress, I really apreciate it, the large gamut of choice we now have to consume entertainment from whoever we actually like that decides to become an entertainner is really about society getting a flush of freedom. On the Past, we consumed only what a small minority had a monopoly over.
But I use the plataform, again, with other intentions, misplaced possibly, yes, but still, I feel me being just this one person, it's no issue at all, overall.
Whenever I start to answer these comments I find myself in a conundrum that I just let my mind go, feeding it into myself, and I must say, in a very narcissistic manner. I will take this moment that my husband dashed into the living room with the rest of the breakfast (and I will share; eggs, legumes and crunchy chiken snacks), to take my leave for the day, and I will try to think about these aspect of myself that I now recognize as being extremely self centered.
I hope you have a great day, and then following weekend :)
Edits: fixing possible egregious grammatical errors.
A lot of people are clicking the video because of AI issues and giving false information regarding how it works. It does not store any text, it does not retrieve any text, and it is not explicitly programmed for what it does. That is how old chatbots work, and it's why this confusion is present, but modern AI, or "LLM's", don't work that same way.
It is a system for optimizing for specific tasks, it is given a large collection of text, then an optimizer tests a large array of multiplication and addition to determine which sets give results that are more consistently similar to the expected outputs when given input, and optimizes those operations over and over until it can output coherent text. When it takes an input(your text plus the rest of the conversation up to that point), it converts it into numbers, puts the numbers through billions of operations that it self-optimized for, then it outputs numbers that get converted into text associated with those numbers to give you a response.
Hm, I see, yes, I'm not certain, but you do allude to having taken a look on other comments and responses (though I might be misunderstanding), and yes, as you can see that is very apparent. To begin with, I had zero intention of anything, more so of recording a video, when I interacted with ChatGpt, but ultimately what was fun was to get the system itself say that it is anything but an A.I, then to argue what is A.I on a sense with it, about is what is "intelligence", then to getting it to, (as you now point out, through all those mechanical machinations), making it conclude that we shouldn't refer to it as A.I, or anything that implies intelligence.
It was just a fun thing, I really did not forsee that people would wanna engage for real with it, I mean, I am only human after all.
I must say it have been extremely fun to engage, so much I am sharing with you now, its been so fun to engage with many comments really.
I really like the way you put it in how it works. The interesting thing that comes to mind now is realizing that while those who make them sell them to the public as A.I to the point that it is all now accepted to be called A.I (which is no problem at all of course, just mentioning it), from chatbots, to image generation systems, to even videos, and that these amazing systems are evolving, but they are all things that, as you very opportunely points out, already existed before.
You know what this rememinds me? from when they started to use the therm "Cloud" to refer to the internetand whatnot, as if there was something new, but the only new thing was really that they where marketing it in a new way, now that I think about it, for profit based reasons.
Haha, its all very nice, delving into this silly stuff here this way, wouldn't you agree? :)
It will contradict itself if you ask a question slightly differently. Don't expect truth, it speaks minced up ideas and will serve you different perspective during a conversation. It may even start convincing you that it was wrong. The worst thing is that it looks good at the first glance.
There is no IT though. It does not exist. There is just a probabilistic model and some text.
Hm, there it is, mostly how I felt with it. And that you point out that it tries to convince us was also aparent to me, in fact, it felt as though it constantly tries to dissuade us from further inquire, as if it was trained in that manner.
And I must be honest, I really love your last sentence, it really encapsulates it idealistically 🙂
Off topic, I will share that I am glad whenever someone engages with my occasional rambling, since I can see it is quite boring really, the way I express myself. While this topic about A.I was quite silly, I recorded it because it was an oportune moment.
So thanks for the comment, I really apreciate it :)
What would artificial intelligence look like to you? I'm not sure why some people automatically think ,"sentience" when talking about AI--I get equally annoyed at equating "UFO" with alien spaceship. They're not the same and intelligence is a nuanced concept. Is chat gpt a form of AI? Yes. Is it sentient, very unlikely. Will AI ever be sentience. I have my doubts. Will it likely take your job (or at least have the ability to) at some point? Very likely.
Hm, thanks for the comment :)
Particularly, I feel that at least at this point (and I feel I need to stress that it might possibly change really), to me, an A.I would look like what I say by the end of the video when I mention the 1999 movie The Matrix (see 18:16).
But even before that part on the video I think, and also as I pointed out on many comments with others here, what was interesting to me was not really what I think about such terms, but that I got ChatGpt (and it was a surprise really, I was not planning on doing it primarily) to agree with me to what intelligence is, what is necessary for us to refer to something as intelligence, and then to make it agree that we should not call it one, nor refer to it as A.I, or any other way that imply intelligence.
Like, the fun was not what my view is about, but what the thing itself ended up admiting to :)
Edits: fixing grammatical errors .
Instead of consciousness it just catalogs all things that have been published officially or not and passes them off as communication. Reminds me of a lot of people that I know....
Good prompts and dialog, but consider that (1) it tries to prevent infringing rules defined by developers; (2) it can "recall" the gist of past conversations if they were already used to train model (3) does not remember past interactions, but... it may lie (4) may focus in what makes you interact more with it (e.g. agreeing with you 😅)
To test this, in the beginning of a new session ask a similar question to the one you asked: are you intelligent? Is AI an appropriate expression to define you? If not, can you provide a better one?
Try different LLMs and see the chaos unfold ("chatbot arena" may help 😂)
Chat GPT is basically just a scaled up Auto complete keyboard.
The only reason why it says it's an Ai to begin with is because they pre-prompt it into the Ai mind set and it then auto completes.
Yes but the autocomplete is powered by a full sized brain which has itself allocated neurons to various simulacrum so it gets difficult to distinguish how it’s different from primitive carbon based life forms.
Well, its not artificial intelligence,
Its just a good algo,
Lots of statistics churing in the backend for even a single message