I did exactly the same as you 4 years E-Niro 4+ one of the first, through Lex Autolease via Drive Electric, Returned 6 months before end of contract BCA offered £17,000 to purchase. I would never been able to afford such a Car when new and its been a great Car, my payments were £349 so great price. The saving on fuel from my old Diesel and charging the E-Niro at home on off peak electric, and Solar in the summer certainly paid for its self Best decision I ever made. Far cheaper than PCP.
Fascinating video and the fact Arval are willing to sell you the car at the end of the lease for a really low price is an excellent result for you, well done. I suspect the fact it's the old model rather than the new one will have had an influence, but nonetheless it's a great result! I watched another video recently which was looking at depreciation of a variety of different EV models from different manufacturers over a 3-year, 30,000m period. The percentage drop was remarkably consistent at around 38% but I thought compared favourably with equivalent ICE models from the same manufacturers. Maybe this reflects how much EV's were over-priced 3 years ago but the really good news is that so many good quality, low mileage EV's are now starting to appear on the used market. This is great news for those people who just couldn't afford the high cost back then. I can only hope this creates a great opportunity for those people now.
It has thanks. Just bought my 3 yr old E-Niro 4, for under £17k whereas new (I believe) it was around £38k. I could've got an ID3 on salary sacrifice lease (probably no chance of buying at the end) for £240/month but decided to wait to see if the prices of the E-Niro's etc would come down somewhat! In the end, of course, they did and I've reaped the rewards of waiting! Thankfully! Because the ID3 I could have got isn't as good as the E-Niro!
Yes, waiting is always cheaper.. and with a 7 year warranty you can wait a long time until the EV drops to the price you can afford. Always cheaper to buy used with cash rather than buy new with PCH / PCP / HP regardless of the buy-out price. But I guess some people just like to have the latest cars immediately.
Excellent information Jonathan. Bit late for me as I PXed my TM3LR plus 1.5 years TM3LR insurance and bought an April 2023 64kWh Hyundai Kona Ultimate last October. Previously had a 64kWh Kona and it suits our poor old pensioner needs because it's easier to get in and out of, it has a big rear opening and the service centre is 2 miles away instead of 60.
Exactly what i found , the M3 was too low for me getting in and out , without 'ohhing' are 'arrhhing' everytime , old age eh 😂 The e niro and kona are great to live with everyday , on a long drive id take a M3 for the supercharger network, but thats rare .
Good news for you Johnathan. I note plenty of Arval adverts on auto trader so will keep my eyes open for the models I think I like. I’ll be changing my car in the next 6 to 12 months and if it electric I’ll go down the leasing route as there are some good deals about. I enjoy your monthly auction vlogs. Keep up the good work.😊
18k to buy a car that will probably last at least another 10 years sounds like much better value than 11k for the first 3 years (1.8k per year vs. 3.7k per year) - but I guess that option wasn't available 3 years ago. Even today there are new EVs that just don't have a second-hand alternative.
Johnathan thanks for the video, very informative. I got my MG 4 SE on a PCP at the end of 2022. It was revalued upwards at the time of collection. When the 4 year PCP expires, as things stand it, will not be worth the guaranteed minimum value and I will have to let it go. This is a great pity as the car has done very low mileage and I have looked after the car and would otherwise have purchased it and kept it fo perhaps a further couple of years.
I'm with you on the value of the eNiro. Had mine as a company car back in 2019. Bought it from the lease company when that contract was up. Still love the car and have yet to see any other EV that I would rather have.
I've got a PCH with Arval on a VW ID3 150kW/58kWh Life Pro. When I started my lease almost 3 years ago I decided to pay 12 months up front [about £2.7K, can't recall exactly] and £239 pm incuding all servicing, parts and tyres. My annual mileage wass 5000, and I'm actually struggling to get to 15K, being around 12K, because most of my journeys are fairly short. But I still have done road trips. No, I couldn't buy it, I was told from the outset [fine, I didn't want to keep it], but it has hardly been anything but good. The only downside was that my official VW dealer didn't know how to upgrade the awful software that initially came with an ID series car. But fully upgraded, we're now upto OK-ish. Oh, and I've just extended the contract for another year. Yes, it is slightly more [£281], but try leasing a new ID3 with the same performance and trim for under £400 pm. A Cupra Born yes, but not by much.
I'm in the same boat as you Jonathan, lease ends in April and purchasing the car. I agree with you, the 4+ is all the car I'll ever need. However,, when calculating savings don't forget the 3.5k contribution off the £39999 list price, so the cost to me new would have been £36.5k
I leased the eniro 3 (wanted the 4 but such a good deal on the 3) for £210+ vat a month over 2 years with 3 months down 5000 miles then 10ppm excess. From 2021 to 2023 - Now i picked up last week a tesla Y long range 36 month with 3 months up front £485+ vat a month(direct from Tesla) 10k miles a year then 13ppm excess. No brainer leasing is you get the correct deals. You can lose big money if purchase new, especially if financed. Regards Jason (from Leicester)
@@JonathanPorterfield you’re welcome. It’s so easy to believe the PCP offer you’re being shown is a good one, until you do a full comparison of the figures. I’ll be making sure I do when our current PCP comes to an end. Keep these videos coming, they’re a great help to people.
We’re in a very similar situation. We have the Hyundai Ioniq (the ‘wind knife’) in SE spec. Originally on a 2yr lease. Inquired last May what the cost would be to buy and decided at the time it wasn’t worth it, so we extended the lease for another year (approx £250pm inc maintenance). Will ask the same question again this May and see what the price is.
7:45 ditto for me. Originally on 1 + 23 @ £237.50 (fully maintained) Took a 12 month extension at end @ £213.36 now in 2nd extension @ £192.03. Come Nov I’ll ask Arval about buying. Original list was £31k Cost to me over 4 years about £10750 with no servicing costs. Come Nov I expect the car to be worth around £11k so potentially saving about £10 k over outright purchase even if I had a spare £31k to buy the car new….
And… there’s the financial compounding value of having had many £££ in your bank account (or index fund) for three years cos you didnt need to shell out £20-30k or more for a new car.
In the interest of transparency I think its worth mentioning that your lease costs were reduced through the Reflex Orkney scheme, so the savings wouldn't be so large for a non-Reflex lease.
True , but still a saving even without the reflex grant ! I just didnt want to be confusing on the option to buy a PCH vehicle , by trying to explain the ReFLEX discount.
@@JonathanPorterfield I'm looking forward to receiving a quote myself, my mileage will be close to 45,000 by May so it will be interesting to see what BCA value the car at, but mine is the silver not the stunning yacht blue that you have. What I can't decide is whether to extend the lease by a year in the hope of significant further depreciation - any thoughts on what you think will happen to used EV prices going forward?
@roycordukes1774 Hi Roy , i honestly think values will rise a little , but i will see when i get another valuation on 11th April when i start the process to buy. It must be noted that its a CAP valuation and not BCA !
Thanks for the vid and glad it’s going well. I’m trying to buy my leased e-expert. On Thursday BCA gave me a silly price - similar vans are listed for 1k less on Autotrader and brand new pre-reg for only 2k more. I emailed back asking them to do better.
@@JonathanPorterfield Interestingly, I've just saved about £45K with my e-niro; I sold it, lost £15K, but swapped it for a Jag I-Pace top spec - which had lost about £60K 😀
Seems to me the PCH scheme gives you access to the discount the large financial institution can get but doesn't require you to accept an initially set balloon payment, rather you are being asked for the (wholesale) market price at the end of period - or you can walk away.
With PCH your lease is based on the retail price of the vehicle, we may benifit in a cracking deal on PCH , as the discount to the funder means they can offer a low rate per month to us 😀
Hi Jonathan, Thanks for a very interesting video. I agree with what you say, but what happens if the lease company won’t sell you the car at the end of the term? You then have to start on a new car deal all over again with no guarantee that you will ever own the car. Yes there is a huge potential saving but no guarantee that you will ever own the car at the end of the lease 0:09 term! A big risk if you want to own the car at the end of the day. Surely it’s always better to pay cash (no interest) or bank loan (next cheapest option) I look forward to your comments! Best wishes, Simon
Hi simon , the 2 BIG players in the lease area are Arval and Lex , both use BCA to collect and sell at auction ex lease vehicles. So regardless of your broker, the funder will probably be one of these 2 ! The reason i want to buy my e niro is that no ev on the market suits me better yet, otherwise id look at another PCH deal 😉 If a leased EV is returned then eco cars . net can find it on auction web sites and for a fee look to buy it for you 😉
Hi Jonathan, Thanks very much for the speedy reply. I’m interested in buying an EQE or EQS. I am a Chauffeur and drive approximately 25-30k per year. I am going to wait as I think the prices on ev’s are falling dramatically. And besides I want to buy a second hand. What are your thoughts and can you purchase second hand ev’s ? Thank you for any help and advice,
@simonfisher4154 Hi simon , yes eco cars can buy to order , this is there USP , e mail info@reflexorkney.co.uk or call 01856 480008 for details , lots of EQE and EQS around at auction
We bought our e-niro 4+ outright in November 2020, a few months before you got yours. We wanted yacht blue but the garage came back to us and said you can have silver grey now or wait 6 months for yacht blue! So we saved £500 by going for the standard colour. We also saved £4000 by getting the government grant which I think you missed out on? So the cost for us was £35,500. We also do a bit more than 10k a year, so we would have had to have not used the car for holidays (drove up to Orkney once), or pay the excess. So we've lost out on £6k minus excess mileage charges :(
I did the same on a Kia Soul EV. Very similar rental price, was due to finish in May. My lease company have not given me the option to buy but have now extended the lease for a year, reduced the price a little and given me a larger miles allowance. Overall running costs cheaper than the 10 yr old Volvo petrol I had before.
Im glad you benefited but it’s not always the case. I chose to PCP because the monthly payments were a lot cheaper than hire for the same car. Yes there is a balloon payment but i don’t intend to pay that and if need me I’ll give it back at that point. But I will make them an offer for the car at market rate just the same.
Haven't lease companies taken big hits on EVs because the residual values have been lower than anticipated? What would the lease payments be today, because the lease companies are going to want to recoup those losses by bumping up the payments on new contracts?
Yes ! PCH today on a niro ev 4 is around £450 a month , but pricing alters every month , so its good to keep checking in with Drive Electric via their website 😀
Hindsight is 20 20. I would say you were very lucky, the market has fallen out of the EV market, What is the current situation Glad it fell your way btw,
Hi Frank , i see ev used value rising a little again , and with electricity prices coming down , i can see the trade looking at stocking evs more again which will increase hammer values.
This is purely down to current EV values, you have had a great result. But clearly this isn't the norm and not a standard case. I had 2 friends one had an EV version and the other a Petrol version. The EV was offered for purchase at a terrifc price but the Petrol one was expensive and not worth his while....
True this isn't the normal situation, but if anyone took out a PCH in 2020 / 2022 when values/ residuals where high and lease rates low , then its a great deal now to buy. Its the funder that's taking the 'risk' on the future values , not us the customers of funders.
Jonathan. Was that £270/month surely not on a business lease? I was looking at the time and I'm sure there was nothing around on even the E-Niro 2 for a lease at that price!? I maybe wrong of course? And if it was a business lease, how are tax complications worked out now it'll be going onto a personal purchase? If it wasn't a business lease.......... Bummer, I missed out there!
Value is set by CAP ( computerised aided pricing) which is the industry standard for guide values from HPi. You could offer less and see their response , but ARVAL are so big ,that bca will happily get collected and pop through an auction in order to get CAP value.
Hi Jonathon! Love your channel and find the live auction videos very interesting! This article on leasing was also very informative and I got my BMW iX40 on a lease 2 years ago as having crunched the numbers I felt it would be more cost effective than PCP. I love the car and would love to buy it at the end of the lease, but Lex Autolease state in their conditions that this is not an option. Watching this video had me wondering if there was any way around this as your comments about ‘knowing the car history’ are particularly pertinent to electric cars as a careful owner will have preserved more battery health! I had considered it might be possible to track the car to an auction after it goes back and use your auction service, but there is no certainty the car would even go to auction or be traceable? Do you have any thoughts on the above? Thanks
I think if you want a new car you'll pay for the depreciation and lost interest whichever way you finance it. Your purchase method mitigates the risk of a collapsing market but having said that I think the cheapest way to run a car is to buy a good used model once the initial big depreciation has taken place, come to think of it that's what you've now done.
Great news I was thinking they would screw you for £20k. You can put a sa business expense and its tax deductable as an allowable business expense. They took the final car value risk as you could have walked away.
Also if you purchased unless you had £40k in your pocket you would have had to loan the money so you would have interest added on to your £10k saving Well done 👍
never thought I would buy a car via pcp however some of the new EV car deals are very cheap at present, cheaper than buying a used car. However I have a question: Do pcp buyers need gap insurance in case the car is written off/stolen or should your car insurance cover the amount owed? The car I am looking at buying is being heavily discounted from its list price and I have no intention of paying the final optional purchase fee.
Yes I would get a gap cover, just not from the dealer….evs are cheap to hire/lease as the lease company gets 100% tax write off in year one. If they’ve got profits available they do this, pay no tax and get another profit on eventual sale.
Great bit of business Jonathan & well deserved I might add! Some value for that spec Niro & then factor in that you know it's been minded & not fast charged frequently. Well wear for the 2nd time with it. BTW it's interesting to hear you also say that the Niro EV isn't as efficient as its predecessor, it's a pity cos it's a decent looking car - mind you a dealer that I would say knows his stuff said they did a side by side test of the 2 cars over 60 miles & the new model was more efficient & he reckons the gom is more realistic in it & reflects more accurate range....
Absolutely, but does give some idea of the discounts and that they are seriously out of pocket due to poor residuals at the moment. Another year left on mine and it is still a compelling car.
Ok ... So , PCH are the better choice 🤔 aren't ev / hybrid expensive 🫰 on maintenance ? and I've heard battery needs replacing after 3 yrs ......and can cost £20k 😮
Maintance on a PCH is usually circa £24 a month , i went for no maintance, as little to service , i have to pay for tyres etc ( lasting 20k miles on average in the e niro ) And NO the battery doesn't need replacing after 3 years , with kia its under warranty for 8 years or 100k miles. Ive a Zoe with 112,000 miles , state of health is 89% , still shows 180 miles range just this week !
What happens if you dink and scratch the car a few times over the 36 months of hire? Not that I would do any such thing. Just asking for someone else who isn't at my supreme levels of advanced driver skills. Ahem.
3 years seems like a long time to not make any mistakes while using the car every day. At least if you own it you can live with a few scrapes and decide what to do about them. I'd be in a permanent state of anxiety over keeping the paintwork pristine otherwise, particularly when leaving the car in a busy urban car park every day with tight spaces.
So the caveat for me is: only hire a new car if you're prepared to buy it at the end of the lease. Just in case. If you're planning to return it, either just drive it round the block at 15mph every day or factor-in the bodywork repairs into the overall cost. My wife is an excellent driver but she suddenly got two scratches on her car the other day. Completely it of character. £500 to repair. Just another note about the personal hire schemes: they don't seem to give you any estimated end of lease optional payment price like you get with PCP. Why not?
@decimal1815 no estimated value at the end as they dont know where the market will be for that make/ model in 3 years time. Plus usually with pch there never has been an option to buy , but it appears now to have changed. With a PCP they guess , and base the final balloon on that, a guess , which could work out in your favour or not.
Presumably you’ve been quoted smidgen under price you suspected to convince you to buy it. If you gave it back in May could you win it at BCA for even less. Though I’m probably missing the point.
Yes i could have bought at auction my e niro back , PLUS FEES , PLUS COST TO COLLECT ,and drive back to Orkney , its cheaper to buy at market value direct with Arval BCA
@@JonathanPorterfield surprised they wrote to you this early asking what you want to do. My e up was Motability. All paperwork, both keys and numerous phones paired to it by family of woman who had it. As believe they get added to insurance. Appears it was given back at 32 months old. Which is strange number.
@alexdalgleish1061 motorbility is differant to normal lease, its a gov run 'charity' and vehicles get returned for various reasons , sometimes when the driver has a change in circumstances or becomes seriously ill and unable to continue driving , or sadly passes away. So the return peroids can be all different, i once bought a pug 107 with 300 miles on the clock and 3 months old from motorbility ( which i converted to LPG )
You only got a discount because of the massive drop in EV prices that started at the start of 2023. If you got the lease a bit earlier and tried to return at the second hand car price peak in late 2022, the story would have been different. So you could have returned the car, only to be met with a dearth of cheap deals. For a new Kia eNiro, it was more like 9 months down, £400 - £450 a month at that stage.
You are benefitting from a massive drop in the resale value of electric cars so this is an example where you have saved £10k. Lucky man, well done but unusual circumstances.
Yes ! The future residue values were high in 2021 for evs , but the increase in interest rates , electricity costs etc has caused the trade values to drop for evs , but my point is , with PCH in the past , buying from the funder wasn't an option, but now it is , so buying at market value is good news ,( rarther than a PCP balloon payment) if you want to buy the ev you" ve had through a PCH.
What’s the fascination with having a brand new car? Why not let someone else take the massive hit? If you’d have bought it now at just over £18000, you’d have actually saved virtually £33000 on the new price, real savings. Surely the way to go with EV’s falling like a stone.
Ive recently bought a 110,000 Zoe at 3 years old for £5k , great value. For me the lease deal was too good no miss on a new EV, and that 7 year warranty is a huge factor too. 😊
Am I being stupid? Isn't this down to depreciation of the car value, the op has shown that pch has put the burden of loss onto the lender, them deals will not be sustainable to the lenders.
@JonathanPorterfield that sounds great, but it's not sustainable surely? You got very lucky with the lender not realising the potential depreciation of that particular model.
@freddydad1 correct , its not sustainable, but if the lease deal is good for you cost wise , then its a smart way of driving a new vehicle with 'options' at the end.
All vehicles have depreciation , but we need them , leasing is a great way of not losing huge amounts , but long term and a 7 year warranty , for me it makes sense to buy out my e niro.
Think of it this way , i 'bought' a new E Niro in 2021 for £29k , a good £10k off list price. I dont want any other ev other than the 'old' shape kia e niro 64kWh 4+ in yacht blue. 😉
I am happy to jump in just where you are now and buy used, saving that £11k. Actually mine cost a little more as it only has 14000 miles (less than I would have done) but still quids in! Used but valeted and way cleaner than if my family had had it from new!
Buying used no matter how you look at is the cheapest option. As I said, if you are happy to pay the extra for the privilege/kudos of owning a new car then go for it. At the end of the day the lease company is actually a money lender with the vehicle as collateral.@@JonathanPorterfield
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I did exactly the same as you 4 years E-Niro 4+ one of the first, through Lex Autolease via Drive Electric, Returned 6 months before end of contract BCA offered £17,000 to purchase. I would never been able to afford such a Car when new and its been a great Car, my payments were £349 so great price. The saving on fuel from my old Diesel and charging the E-Niro at home on off peak electric, and Solar in the summer certainly paid for its self Best decision I ever made. Far cheaper than PCP.
Thats great to hear 😊 👌👏👏👏
Fascinating video and the fact Arval are willing to sell you the car at the end of the lease for a really low price is an excellent result for you, well done. I suspect the fact it's the old model rather than the new one will have had an influence, but nonetheless it's a great result!
I watched another video recently which was looking at depreciation of a variety of different EV models from different manufacturers over a 3-year, 30,000m period. The percentage drop was remarkably consistent at around 38% but I thought compared favourably with equivalent ICE models from the same manufacturers.
Maybe this reflects how much EV's were over-priced 3 years ago but the really good news is that so many good quality, low mileage EV's are now starting to appear on the used market. This is great news for those people who just couldn't afford the high cost back then. I can only hope this creates a great opportunity for those people now.
It has thanks.
Just bought my 3 yr old E-Niro 4, for under £17k whereas new (I believe) it was around £38k.
I could've got an ID3 on salary sacrifice lease (probably no chance of buying at the end) for £240/month but decided to wait to see if the prices of the E-Niro's etc would come down somewhat! In the end, of course, they did and I've reaped the rewards of waiting! Thankfully! Because the ID3 I could have got isn't as good as the E-Niro!
Yes, waiting is always cheaper.. and with a 7 year warranty you can wait a long time until the EV drops to the price you can afford. Always cheaper to buy used with cash rather than buy new with PCH / PCP / HP regardless of the buy-out price. But I guess some people just like to have the latest cars immediately.
As DefinitelyNotAGuru says when it comes to electric, lease new or buy second hand.
Probably the best advice for ICE as well, but who wants a dirty car!?
Excellent information Jonathan. Bit late for me as I PXed my TM3LR plus 1.5 years TM3LR insurance and bought an April 2023 64kWh Hyundai Kona Ultimate last October. Previously had a 64kWh Kona and it suits our poor old pensioner needs because it's easier to get in and out of, it has a big rear opening and the service centre is 2 miles away instead of 60.
Exactly what i found , the M3 was too low for me getting in and out , without 'ohhing' are 'arrhhing' everytime , old age eh 😂
The e niro and kona are great to live with everyday , on a long drive id take a M3 for the supercharger network, but thats rare .
That's a great result. I think this illustrates how volatile the used car market is at the moment. Great that it worked heavily in your favour.
👍
Thank you for an honest personal assessment of your new EV purchase. Will be interested in the final outcome.
Thanks Dennis for your comments 😀 👍
Good news for you Johnathan. I note plenty of Arval adverts on auto trader so will keep my eyes open for the models I think I like. I’ll be changing my car in the next 6 to 12 months and if it electric I’ll go down the leasing route as there are some good deals about. I enjoy your monthly auction vlogs. Keep up the good work.😊
Thought provoking video thanks. Yes you know the cars history and cared for it , something we really don’t know when we buy used.
Thanks for watching and your comments 🙂
18k to buy a car that will probably last at least another 10 years sounds like much better value than 11k for the first 3 years (1.8k per year vs. 3.7k per year) - but I guess that option wasn't available 3 years ago. Even today there are new EVs that just don't have a second-hand alternative.
Johnathan thanks for the video, very informative. I got my MG 4 SE on a PCP at the end of 2022. It was revalued upwards at the time of collection. When the 4 year PCP expires, as things stand it, will not be worth the guaranteed minimum value and I will have to let it go. This is a great pity as the car has done very low mileage and I have looked after the car and would otherwise have purchased it and kept it fo perhaps a further couple of years.
I'm with you on the value of the eNiro. Had mine as a company car back in 2019. Bought it from the lease company when that contract was up. Still love the car and have yet to see any other EV that I would rather have.
Still the best ev as of today ! 👍👍
Completely agree regarding the e-Niro 4+ (also in Yacht Blue) there is no other EV I would rather have.
😊
I've got a PCH with Arval on a VW ID3 150kW/58kWh Life Pro. When I started my lease almost 3 years ago I decided to pay 12 months up front [about £2.7K, can't recall exactly] and £239 pm incuding all servicing, parts and tyres. My annual mileage wass 5000, and I'm actually struggling to get to 15K, being around 12K, because most of my journeys are fairly short. But I still have done road trips. No, I couldn't buy it, I was told from the outset [fine, I didn't want to keep it], but it has hardly been anything but good. The only downside was that my official VW dealer didn't know how to upgrade the awful software that initially came with an ID series car. But fully upgraded, we're now upto OK-ish. Oh, and I've just extended the contract for another year. Yes, it is slightly more [£281], but try leasing a new ID3 with the same performance and trim for under £400 pm. A Cupra Born yes, but not by much.
I'm in the same boat as you Jonathan, lease ends in April and purchasing the car. I agree with you, the 4+ is all the car I'll ever need.
However,, when calculating savings don't forget the 3.5k contribution off the £39999 list price, so the cost to me new would have been £36.5k
True , i forgot the government's £3500
I leased the eniro 3 (wanted the 4 but such a good deal on the 3) for £210+ vat a month over 2 years with 3 months down 5000 miles then 10ppm excess. From 2021 to 2023 -
Now i picked up last week a tesla Y long range 36 month with 3 months up front £485+ vat a month(direct from Tesla) 10k miles a year then 13ppm excess.
No brainer leasing is you get the correct deals. You can lose big money if purchase new, especially if financed.
Regards
Jason (from Leicester)
Thanks Jason for your comments 👍
Very interesting stuff. Did not expect that outcome.
Good advice, thanks for sharing Jonathan.
Thanks Marvin , appreciate your comments 👍👍
@@JonathanPorterfield you’re welcome.
It’s so easy to believe the PCP offer you’re being shown is a good one, until you do a full comparison of the figures. I’ll be making sure I do when our current PCP comes to an end.
Keep these videos coming, they’re a great help to people.
We’re in a very similar situation. We have the Hyundai Ioniq (the ‘wind knife’) in SE spec. Originally on a 2yr lease. Inquired last May what the cost would be to buy and decided at the time it wasn’t worth it, so we extended the lease for another year (approx £250pm inc maintenance). Will ask the same question again this May and see what the price is.
Good idea, 38kWh ioniq have dropped in value too in the last 12 months 👍
7:45 ditto for me. Originally on 1 + 23 @ £237.50 (fully maintained) Took a 12 month extension at end @ £213.36 now in 2nd extension @ £192.03. Come Nov I’ll ask Arval about buying. Original list was £31k Cost to me over 4 years about £10750 with no servicing costs. Come Nov I expect the car to be worth around £11k so potentially saving about £10 k over outright purchase even if I had a spare £31k to buy the car new….
And… there’s the financial compounding value of having had many £££ in your bank account (or index fund) for three years cos you didnt need to shell out £20-30k or more for a new car.
In the interest of transparency I think its worth mentioning that your lease costs were reduced through the Reflex Orkney scheme, so the savings wouldn't be so large for a non-Reflex lease.
True , but still a saving even without the reflex grant !
I just didnt want to be confusing on the option to buy a PCH vehicle , by trying to explain the ReFLEX discount.
@@JonathanPorterfield I'm looking forward to receiving a quote myself, my mileage will be close to 45,000 by May so it will be interesting to see what BCA value the car at, but mine is the silver not the stunning yacht blue that you have. What I can't decide is whether to extend the lease by a year in the hope of significant further depreciation - any thoughts on what you think will happen to used EV prices going forward?
@roycordukes1774 Hi Roy , i honestly think values will rise a little , but i will see when i get another valuation on 11th April when i start the process to buy.
It must be noted that its a CAP valuation and not BCA !
@@JonathanPorterfield Many thanks for sharing your thoughts
You are wise and sensible Jonathan, very good financial planning on a very good car !
Thanks for the vid and glad it’s going well. I’m trying to buy my leased e-expert. On Thursday BCA gave me a silly price - similar vans are listed for 1k less on Autotrader and brand new pre-reg for only 2k more. I emailed back asking them to do better.
I also have an eNiro4 1 year older and its a brilliant car.
Nothing is around yet that is better !
You done well with that John , you have saved £10k .
All sound points: thanks!
Thanks Rob 👍
Please remember, past performance is not necessarily an indicator of future performance.
True 👍
@@JonathanPorterfield Interestingly, I've just saved about £45K with my e-niro; I sold it, lost £15K, but swapped it for a Jag I-Pace top spec - which had lost about £60K 😀
Seems to me the PCH scheme gives you access to the discount the large financial institution can get but doesn't require you to accept an initially set balloon payment, rather you are being asked for the (wholesale) market price at the end of period - or you can walk away.
With PCH your lease is based on the retail price of the vehicle, we may benifit in a cracking deal on PCH , as the discount to the funder means they can offer a low rate per month to us 😀
Hi Jonathan,
Thanks for a very interesting video.
I agree with what you say, but what happens if the lease company won’t sell you the car at the end of the term?
You then have to start on a new car deal all over again with no guarantee that you will ever own the car.
Yes there is a huge potential saving but no guarantee that you will ever own the car at the end of the lease 0:09 term!
A big risk if you want to own the car at the end of the day.
Surely it’s always better to pay cash (no interest) or bank loan (next cheapest option)
I look forward to your comments!
Best wishes,
Simon
Hi simon , the 2 BIG players in the lease area are Arval and Lex , both use BCA to collect and sell at auction ex lease vehicles.
So regardless of your broker, the funder will probably be one of these 2 !
The reason i want to buy my e niro is that no ev on the market suits me better yet, otherwise id look at another PCH deal 😉
If a leased EV is returned then eco cars . net can find it on auction web sites and for a fee look to buy it for you 😉
Hi Jonathan,
Thanks very much for the speedy reply.
I’m interested in buying an EQE or EQS.
I am a Chauffeur and drive approximately 25-30k per year.
I am going to wait as I think the prices on ev’s are falling dramatically.
And besides I want to buy a second hand.
What are your thoughts and can you purchase second hand ev’s ?
Thank you for any help and advice,
@simonfisher4154 Hi simon , yes eco cars can buy to order , this is there USP , e mail info@reflexorkney.co.uk or call 01856 480008 for details , lots of EQE and EQS around at auction
We bought our e-niro 4+ outright in November 2020, a few months before you got yours. We wanted yacht blue but the garage came back to us and said you can have silver grey now or wait 6 months for yacht blue! So we saved £500 by going for the standard colour. We also saved £4000 by getting the government grant which I think you missed out on? So the cost for us was £35,500. We also do a bit more than 10k a year, so we would have had to have not used the car for holidays (drove up to Orkney once), or pay the excess. So we've lost out on £6k minus excess mileage charges :(
Yes , Arval had the Goverment grant of £4k , plus £4 reflex grant which reduced the monthly lease cost.
I agree , i bought (Non EV ) E class merc of hire company and sold it three days later for £4 more, easiest £4k i have ever made
Been doing this since 2015....first with nissan leaf. i use the same Arval
They are great to deal with if there's an issue. When my e niros reg was cloned they where very helpfull and sorted it very fast.
I did the same on a Kia Soul EV. Very similar rental price, was due to finish in May. My lease company have not given me the option to buy but have now extended the lease for a year, reduced the price a little and given me a larger miles allowance. Overall running costs cheaper than the 10 yr old Volvo petrol I had before.
Who is your funder ??
Kia contract hire, run by ALD
Im glad you benefited but it’s not always the case. I chose to PCP because the monthly payments were a lot cheaper than hire for the same car. Yes there is a balloon payment but i don’t intend to pay that and if need me I’ll give it back at that point. But I will make them an offer for the car at market rate just the same.
Haven't lease companies taken big hits on EVs because the residual values have been lower than anticipated? What would the lease payments be today, because the lease companies are going to want to recoup those losses by bumping up the payments on new contracts?
Yes ! PCH today on a niro ev 4 is around £450 a month , but pricing alters every month , so its good to keep checking in with Drive Electric via their website 😀
Great thought provoking video lots to get right to get the deal you got. Can you tell me why the new model is less efficient than the old one
I did a video here ....ruclips.net/video/MWqZ4MagQ3c/видео.htmlsi=UbaCxZHPD54BjBf4
Good explainer! Thanks
Thanks Philip 👍
Hindsight is 20 20.
I would say you were very lucky, the market has fallen out of the EV market,
What is the current situation
Glad it fell your way btw,
Hi Frank , i see ev used value rising a little again , and with electricity prices coming down , i can see the trade looking at stocking evs more again which will increase hammer values.
This is purely down to current EV values, you have had a great result. But clearly this isn't the norm and not a standard case. I had 2 friends one had an EV version and the other a Petrol version. The EV was offered for purchase at a terrifc price but the Petrol one was expensive and not worth his while....
True this isn't the normal situation, but if anyone took out a PCH in 2020 / 2022 when values/ residuals where high and lease rates low , then its a great deal now to buy.
Its the funder that's taking the 'risk' on the future values , not us the customers of funders.
That's a great deal. I've just paid £19995 for a 35k mile 20 plate 4+ which felt like a good price.
No way I could get a 21 plate for £18k
Jonathan. Was that £270/month surely not on a business lease? I was looking at the time and I'm sure there was nothing around on even the E-Niro 2 for a lease at that price!? I maybe wrong of course?
And if it was a business lease, how are tax complications worked out now it'll be going onto a personal purchase?
If it wasn't a business lease.......... Bummer, I missed out there!
100% it is a Personal contract hire from day 1 😉👍
Quick question…. You said the price to buy it from Arval is set by BCA, is it possible to make an off on that price.?
Value is set by CAP ( computerised aided pricing) which is the industry standard for guide values from HPi.
You could offer less and see their response , but ARVAL are so big ,that bca will happily get collected and pop through an auction in order to get CAP value.
Hi Jonathon! Love your channel and find the live auction videos very interesting!
This article on leasing was also very informative and I got my BMW iX40 on a lease 2 years ago as having crunched the numbers I felt it would be more cost effective than PCP.
I love the car and would love to buy it at the end of the lease, but Lex Autolease state in their conditions that this is not an option.
Watching this video had me wondering if there was any way around this as your comments about ‘knowing the car history’ are particularly pertinent to electric cars as a careful owner will have preserved more battery health!
I had considered it might be possible to track the car to an auction after it goes back and use your auction service, but there is no certainty the car would even go to auction or be traceable?
Do you have any thoughts on the above?
Thanks
I think if you want a new car you'll pay for the depreciation and lost interest whichever way you finance it. Your purchase method mitigates the risk of a collapsing market but having said that I think the cheapest way to run a car is to buy a good used model once the initial big depreciation has taken place, come to think of it that's what you've now done.
Great news I was thinking they would screw you for £20k.
You can put a sa business expense and its tax deductable as an allowable business expense.
They took the final car value risk as you could have walked away.
Also if you purchased unless you had £40k in your pocket you would have had to loan the money so you would have interest added on to your £10k saving
Well done 👍
never thought I would buy a car via pcp however some of the new EV car deals are very cheap at present, cheaper than buying a used car. However I have a question: Do pcp buyers need gap insurance in case the car is written off/stolen or should your car insurance cover the amount owed? The car I am looking at buying is being heavily discounted from its list price and I have no intention of paying the final optional purchase fee.
Yes I would get a gap cover, just not from the dealer….evs are cheap to hire/lease as the lease company gets 100% tax write off in year one. If they’ve got profits available they do this, pay no tax and get another profit on eventual sale.
Great bit of business Jonathan & well deserved I might add!
Some value for that spec Niro & then factor in that you know it's been minded & not fast charged frequently. Well wear for the 2nd time with it.
BTW it's interesting to hear you also say that the Niro EV isn't as efficient as its predecessor, it's a pity cos it's a decent looking car - mind you a dealer that I would say knows his stuff said they did a side by side test of the 2 cars over 60 miles & the new model was more efficient & he reckons the gom is more realistic in it & reflects more accurate range....
I have had a 4+ on lease since February 2021 and they sent me the invoice by mistake @ £33450 including tax and the grant.
Yes , this is what the funder would have paid , but you and i wouldn't have had this level of discount !
Absolutely, but does give some idea of the discounts and that they are seriously out of pocket due to poor residuals at the moment. Another year left on mine and it is still a compelling car.
Ok ...
So , PCH are the better choice 🤔 aren't ev / hybrid expensive 🫰 on maintenance ?
and I've heard battery needs replacing after 3 yrs ......and can cost £20k 😮
Maintance on a PCH is usually circa £24 a month , i went for no maintance, as little to service , i have to pay for tyres etc ( lasting 20k miles on average in the e niro )
And NO the battery doesn't need replacing after 3 years , with kia its under warranty for 8 years or 100k miles.
Ive a Zoe with 112,000 miles , state of health is 89% , still shows 180 miles range just this week !
@@JonathanPorterfield wow that's a good deal Jonathan
What happens if you dink and scratch the car a few times over the 36 months of hire? Not that I would do any such thing. Just asking for someone else who isn't at my supreme levels of advanced driver skills. Ahem.
Bottom line on any lease type contract is you’ll be penalised for dents & scratches as these affect the value of the car.
3 years seems like a long time to not make any mistakes while using the car every day. At least if you own it you can live with a few scrapes and decide what to do about them. I'd be in a permanent state of anxiety over keeping the paintwork pristine otherwise, particularly when leaving the car in a busy urban car park every day with tight spaces.
Live with any dents etc , and sort out before its returned , or if you buy it doesnt matter ! 😉
So the caveat for me is: only hire a new car if you're prepared to buy it at the end of the lease. Just in case. If you're planning to return it, either just drive it round the block at 15mph every day or factor-in the bodywork repairs into the overall cost. My wife is an excellent driver but she suddenly got two scratches on her car the other day. Completely it of character. £500 to repair.
Just another note about the personal hire schemes: they don't seem to give you any estimated end of lease optional payment price like you get with PCP. Why not?
@decimal1815 no estimated value at the end as they dont know where the market will be for that make/ model in 3 years time.
Plus usually with pch there never has been an option to buy , but it appears now to have changed.
With a PCP they guess , and base the final balloon on that, a guess , which could work out in your favour or not.
Hi Jon its Mikey Im stuck in tesla pcp 2y2m in to the standard 4y term.... Bad move unfortunately should have leased...
We're you happy at the time when you signed up. If I may ask why you feel it's a bad move now ?
@@AdrianMcDaidnegative equity, Tesla massively slashed new prices, just two of quite a list I'd imagine.
@@huwsparky175303 but he was happy at the time. So this was issue. If Tesla instead increased prices been happier?
Presumably you’ve been quoted smidgen under price you suspected to convince you to buy it. If you gave it back in May could you win it at BCA for even less. Though I’m probably missing the point.
Yes i could have bought at auction my e niro back , PLUS FEES , PLUS COST TO COLLECT ,and drive back to Orkney , its cheaper to buy at market value direct with Arval BCA
@@JonathanPorterfield surprised they wrote to you this early asking what you want to do. My e up was Motability. All paperwork, both keys and numerous phones paired to it by family of woman who had it. As believe they get added to insurance. Appears it was given back at 32 months old. Which is strange number.
@alexdalgleish1061 motorbility is differant to normal lease, its a gov run 'charity' and vehicles get returned for various reasons , sometimes when the driver has a change in circumstances or becomes seriously ill and unable to continue driving , or sadly passes away. So the return peroids can be all different, i once bought a pug 107 with 300 miles on the clock and 3 months old from motorbility ( which i converted to LPG )
You only got a discount because of the massive drop in EV prices that started at the start of 2023. If you got the lease a bit earlier and tried to return at the second hand car price peak in late 2022, the story would have been different. So you could have returned the car, only to be met with a dearth of cheap deals. For a new Kia eNiro, it was more like 9 months down, £400 - £450 a month at that stage.
Correct ! It gives us all options with a PCH as its market value NOT a guesstimated final 'balloon' payment you have with a PCP deal 😉
how does insurance works as your not the owner does it cost more?
Not in my experience.
No more than if you owned it 😉
You are benefitting from a massive drop in the resale value of electric cars so this is an example where you have saved £10k. Lucky man, well done but unusual circumstances.
Is that always the case though or did the funder overestimate the value at the end of the lease?
Yes ! The future residue values were high in 2021 for evs , but the increase in interest rates , electricity costs etc has caused the trade values to drop for evs , but my point is , with PCH in the past , buying from the funder wasn't an option, but now it is , so buying at market value is good news ,( rarther than a PCP balloon payment) if you want to buy the ev you" ve had through a PCH.
What’s the fascination with having a brand new car? Why not let someone else take the massive hit? If you’d have bought it now at just over £18000, you’d have actually saved virtually £33000 on the new price, real savings. Surely the way to go with EV’s falling like a stone.
Ive recently bought a 110,000 Zoe at 3 years old for £5k , great value.
For me the lease deal was too good no miss on a new EV, and that 7 year warranty is a huge factor too. 😊
Am I being stupid? Isn't this down to depreciation of the car value, the op has shown that pch has put the burden of loss onto the lender, them deals will not be sustainable to the lenders.
Correct , the lender taking the risk on future values at 3 years , not us the customers, this is why i like PCH over PCP
@JonathanPorterfield that sounds great, but it's not sustainable surely? You got very lucky with the lender not realising the potential depreciation of that particular model.
@freddydad1 correct , its not sustainable, but if the lease deal is good for you cost wise , then its a smart way of driving a new vehicle with 'options' at the end.
@@JonathanPorterfield definitely..
Jonny 🔥
Never buy a depreciating asset, that's pouring money down the drain!
All vehicles have depreciation , but we need them , leasing is a great way of not losing huge amounts , but long term and a 7 year warranty , for me it makes sense to buy out my e niro.
Yea smart
Not a great advert for an EV buying service.
I've always just wanted to get folk into evs , however they get their I'm not bothered!
So you are going to invest another £18K in a car worth £18K after already investing £11K with the sole benefit of owning a new car?
Think of it this way , i 'bought' a new E Niro in 2021 for £29k , a good £10k off list price.
I dont want any other ev other than the 'old' shape kia e niro 64kWh 4+ in yacht blue. 😉
I am happy to jump in just where you are now and buy used, saving that £11k. Actually mine cost a little more as it only has 14000 miles (less than I would have done) but still quids in! Used but valeted and way cleaner than if my family had had it from new!
@chrism2859 I needed ( and fancied ) the 300 mile range EV back in 2021 , so i jumped in then 😉
Buying used no matter how you look at is the cheapest option. As I said, if you are happy to pay the extra for the privilege/kudos of owning a new car then go for it. At the end of the day the lease company is actually a money lender with the vehicle as collateral.@@JonathanPorterfield