Yep, whether factorio inspires people to get into engineering, or people interested in engineering enjoy factorio I can't say for sure. But looking at the factorio community most people bring engineering practices into their game-play style.
trains in factorio makes you realize how insanely complicated logistics can be. What if your trains were shorter and/or faster? What if you had multiple sorts of trains? What if departing and arriving direction are not uniform? The curse of dimensionality really kicks in
From how Brian’s trains seem to be set up “loco, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, loco, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon” it looks like the system can use “loco, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon” trains and others. Likely so longer trains with multiple locos will still fit in stations for smaller trains without messing up the inserters and stuff.
Anyone who has even done something as simple as trying to distribute supplies around in a school will soon realize that logistics is hard. A dude that has worked logistics for a large company for 25 years, or the dude who has worked logistics for a Circus for 10? Who do you hire Well, a large company is doing logistics on easy mode. The dude who has done logistics for a Circus for 10 has dealt with insane logistics, and having to deal with transporting while animals, making sure they have breaks to avoid stress, feeding times, etc. Logistics have significantly varying difficulties. The Standard Container essentially solved 90% of large scale logistical problems, because a lot of those problems stemmed from being able to store, retrieve and deliver the products to the right person.
I just made a massive track where entire 10 section trains can fit inside the vertical and diagonal parts without blocking each other. It's rediculously huge, but it was fun.
never understood why ppl make junctions so small, openTTD you just make huge loops that fit whole trains so they dont clog each other and then build a factory in the middle and belt stuff out of it lol
This is really interesting and great. For the final design there is no way for a train to turn left unlike the roundabout style designs. Would this inflate the trains per minute since they need to go through the intersection more than once to get where they need to be?
Only one intermediate design didn't support left turns. The final design does. U-turns are bad for throughput so it's better to have trains take a slightly longer route around the block instead.
This is an awesome test! Would you be able to provide the blueprint or download link to the train counter you used? I am trying to make one myself but I found it really dificult. Awesome video nontheless.
If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand. THAT'S job security! It's included in the new v4.0 blueprint set, along with the train indicators that feed it.
Hey Brian I just tried to use your train blueprint (without LTN, because I like Vanilla) but I can't figure out how to transition my 4 lane rails into 2, 1 rails and also where and how to add the requesters, trainstations properly. Could you please make a guide for that?
The main doc has info about using non-LTN stations. There are blueprint junctions for joining quad-to-double. docs.google.com/document/d/1hfdz3PCpe91HOSuna6A650LsVmBjO8YACzxFemrQKqA/edit
and now that we are gona get bridge rails, thing like a 4 line intersection can get even more optimize and thank you for uploading this video i was searching if someone had alrady made a 4 line interseccion beacuse i am trying to make one and its super unoptimiced
Hey can you upload the Display in the top left? Or explain how it works? I can make a normal train counter but it tedious to restart a 5 min measurement after changeing the intersection just sligthly.
Do you count throughput by train reaching the destination or by train passing the intersection? Because if the latter every left-turning train is counted twice. Am I right?
Because it means the locomotives are always in the same positions even as trains get longer making better compatibility between stations of different lengths. It also makes fueling easier.
@@BriansBasicStuff not quite, you said you they were coming back to the intersection a second time. But you did not said they were counted twice aswell or how that falsifies the value the counter is displaying. Still a great Video tho^^
Links to the blueprints (and general description) are in the main description. The latest junctions, including the improved one I just mention, is there.
@@Omaricon Ah, no. There's no blueprint for the test rig. Not even sure I could create one that big. Maybe I can grab just the central part with the counter. I'll have to check.
A big part of its efficiency came from having signals every car length which lets trains pipeline much more efficiently. Unfortunately, this can allow deadlock on a busy network.
Yes and no, you just can't afford any mistakes in your network, my factory was calculated, no over production and has been running for hours without a dip
Trains have to be the biggest bottleneck in this game. Iirc didn't they get their inspiration for trains from OpenTTD? They should seriously consider adding tunnels and bridges. We could very easily double the flow of our rail traffic. Better signals too. Hell they could just copy the signals, tunnels and bridges straight from how TTD implements them.
You should have tried this as well: (─┴──┬─). This is a crossing from a staggered block design, kind of like a brick wall, where you only have three way intersections. It's said to be even better than doing regular blocks with four way crossings, however I have no idea how well it works on its own.
That's an interesting idea. I can't judge without testing what the efficiency would be and creating a test would be difficult because regular grids are about different paths rather than individual intersections. I can, however, see it being prone to error in blueprints with a tendency to be placed incorrectly.
Hello, could you test this cross ? pastebin.com/dc59B01k 2 lane, RHD i use it with 1-2 or 2-4 train with solid fuel or rocket fuel. i don't have make the 4lane atm. thanks
This degrades performance because trains move inwards before the intersection to take the shorter inner loop thus increasing congestion and slowing traffic going through it. It was actually my original design but was shown to be flawed during testing.
@@BriansBasicStuff Everything's remain the same except that 2 small interchanges x on 4 direction =8 no. , reduces to 1big X on 4 direction= 4 no. Functioning, track selection, operating all remains same. I tried iterations.
@@kalpeshwani8520 Interesting. LTN obviously doesn't have that problem but I also question his analysis that the problem he displays might be the cause of an actual base where trains didn't make deliveries. The difference is that, in his case, the empty destinations always receive trains so there shouldn't be any starvation even if a provider or two doesn't get utilized when there is an abundance of supply.
Thank you for your research
Its trupen!!!
Hey bro love ur vids
Yes! Love the Factorio "pain" vids!! So excellent!!
Hey Trupen!!
I just realized that most of the people who play this game are a kind of engineers
Yes, we are. Now get a degree and join our masterrace.
well, it's an engineering game, so yeah, the same people to tend to like this that like engineering in general ^^
you know, I'm something of an engineer myself.
Yep, whether factorio inspires people to get into engineering, or people interested in engineering enjoy factorio I can't say for sure. But looking at the factorio community most people bring engineering practices into their game-play style.
I'm a grunt so idk how to feel about that.
trains in factorio makes you realize how insanely complicated logistics can be. What if your trains were shorter and/or faster? What if you had multiple sorts of trains? What if departing and arriving direction are not uniform? The curse of dimensionality really kicks in
From how Brian’s trains seem to be set up “loco, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, loco, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon” it looks like the system can use “loco, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon” trains and others. Likely so longer trains with multiple locos will still fit in stations for smaller trains without messing up the inserters and stuff.
Anyone who has even done something as simple as trying to distribute supplies around in a school will soon realize that logistics is hard.
A dude that has worked logistics for a large company for 25 years, or the dude who has worked logistics for a Circus for 10? Who do you hire
Well, a large company is doing logistics on easy mode. The dude who has done logistics for a Circus for 10 has dealt with insane logistics, and having to deal with transporting while animals, making sure they have breaks to avoid stress, feeding times, etc.
Logistics have significantly varying difficulties. The Standard Container essentially solved 90% of large scale logistical problems, because a lot of those problems stemmed from being able to store, retrieve and deliver the products to the right person.
I love that you documented each design and showed us improvements that you’ve made overtime
Nice video, mate.
Complicated train highways are so cool, and trains/minute going up is just so satysfying
I just made a massive track where entire 10 section trains can fit inside the vertical and diagonal parts without blocking each other. It's rediculously huge, but it was fun.
never understood why ppl make junctions so small, openTTD you just make huge loops that fit whole trains so they dont clog each other and then build a factory in the middle and belt stuff out of it lol
Great D.Knuth reference, I know it when I see a programmer.
Just a fantastic example of a useful Factorio video. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks for your work on your blueprints and videos. Much appreciated!
This is some very in-depth work. Appreciated.
Now we need an update with elevated rails!
That might happen. Though there's a lot in the new Factorio that may make rail blueprints less useful. I guess we'll see soon.
This is good. I would like to see more junction analysis. Maybe compare train sizes in junctions
Thanks for the train blueprints! I made some myself, but these are way better and saved me a lot of time.
Would it be possible to post the blueprint of the throughput circuit?
If you're reading this, and looking for a good solution, consider testing a whildwind roundabout, it can solve a lot of issues shown here.
Its all roundabouts!!
Awesome video really enjoyed it
Gonna use this for boats on my modded world thank you so much
must study this, currently i just place down signals randomly until the trains stop crashing into each other.
This is really interesting and great. For the final design there is no way for a train to turn left unlike the roundabout style designs. Would this inflate the trains per minute since they need to go through the intersection more than once to get where they need to be?
Only one intermediate design didn't support left turns. The final design does. U-turns are bad for throughput so it's better to have trains take a slightly longer route around the block instead.
And im out here spending 30 minutes to make 2 trains run on a T junction
This is an awesome test! Would you be able to provide the blueprint or download link to the train counter you used? I am trying to make one myself but I found it really dificult.
Awesome video nontheless.
If it was hard to write, it should be hard to understand. THAT'S job security!
It's included in the new v4.0 blueprint set, along with the train indicators that feed it.
Sup man, do u have blueprints of other crossroads? I really like the second one, but I didn`t find the print, can u public it, or give a link?
The book has only the two most efficient: one round-about and one cross. I didn't keep the others.
Thanks Brian!
Hey Brian I just tried to use your train blueprint (without LTN, because I like Vanilla) but I can't figure out how to transition my 4 lane rails into 2, 1 rails and also where and how to add the requesters, trainstations properly. Could you please make a guide for that?
The main doc has info about using non-LTN stations. There are blueprint junctions for joining quad-to-double.
docs.google.com/document/d/1hfdz3PCpe91HOSuna6A650LsVmBjO8YACzxFemrQKqA/edit
Thank you 😊
and now that we are gona get bridge rails, thing like a 4 line intersection can get even more optimize and thank you for uploading this video i was searching if someone had alrady made a 4 line interseccion beacuse i am trying to make one and its super unoptimiced
Very good video.
Show us your self expanding factory 😊
Nah, you don't need me for that. You can build it yourself!
i wish we had underground tracks
There is a mod that supplies those but I've never been able to get it to work. It would help a lot.
@@BriansBasicStuff they should add them to the base game
can this be or is the video already expanded to reflect the list of 4-way intersections on the forums?
These are ones I built and tested myself. If you have links to others, please share.
Hey can you upload the Display in the top left? Or explain how it works? I can make a normal train counter but it tedious to restart a 5 min measurement after changeing the intersection just sligthly.
It's included in the v4 blueprints book.
Do you count throughput by train reaching the destination or by train passing the intersection? Because if the latter every left-turning train is counted twice. Am I right?
Trains are counted as they leave the junction, regardless of path.
Why the “loco, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, loco, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon” set up?
Because it means the locomotives are always in the same positions even as trains get longer making better compatibility between stations of different lengths. It also makes fueling easier.
Something you failed to mention in the last design is, that 33.3% of the trains are counted twice and therefor making it the second worst solution.
The right-turn-only version? I definitely mention the double-counting.
@@BriansBasicStuff not quite, you said you they were coming back to the intersection a second time. But you did not said they were counted twice aswell or how that falsifies the value the counter is displaying. Still a great Video tho^^
Fair enough. I didn't do the math on it.
I just never make 4-way junctions, always 2 3-way junctions spaced at least 1 train length apart.
is somewhere a description how to set up the counter by myself? have a bit of a problem how to do this
Diebst
There is a brief description in the blueprint comment.
do more of these videos... maybe explain how to use your blueprints? how u use them...? :D
Awesome video Brian!
You wouldn't be able to give a download link to the world? I'd love to test it out for myself!
Links to the blueprints (and general description) are in the main description. The latest junctions, including the improved one I just mention, is there.
@@BriansBasicStuff Yes, but I couldn't see that they included the average trains per minute counter?
@@Omaricon Ah, no. There's no blueprint for the test rig. Not even sure I could create one that big. Maybe I can grab just the central part with the counter. I'll have to check.
@@BriansBasicStuff Could you maybe upload the save file to google drive or something? :D
Mb the best decision is to make two 3way junctions
Can I get templates for this artwork?
me who doesn't have factorio nor knows about trains: *hmm yes I understand*
Hi Brian
I have a 48 train/min average (with your cargo config) with only dual rail, do you want to see it?
50+ if you fit it perfectly
Certainly. You can email me: bcwhite@pobox.com
@@BriansBasicStuff was there something?
A big part of its efficiency came from having signals every car length which lets trains pipeline much more efficiently. Unfortunately, this can allow deadlock on a busy network.
Yes and no, you just can't afford any mistakes in your network, my factory was calculated, no over production and has been running for hours without a dip
So with my setup, the exit of a junction must allways be free, which it is because every junction flows very fast :)
Trains have to be the biggest bottleneck in this game. Iirc didn't they get their inspiration for trains from OpenTTD? They should seriously consider adding tunnels and bridges. We could very easily double the flow of our rail traffic. Better signals too. Hell they could just copy the signals, tunnels and bridges straight from how TTD implements them.
Quick question, how does a train turn left on the lower two designs?
Bottom-left: from the inner lane. Bottom-right: it can't.
You should have tried this as well: (─┴──┬─). This is a crossing from a staggered block design, kind of like a brick wall, where you only have three way intersections. It's said to be even better than doing regular blocks with four way crossings, however I have no idea how well it works on its own.
That's an interesting idea. I can't judge without testing what the efficiency would be and creating a test would be difficult because regular grids are about different paths rather than individual intersections. I can, however, see it being prone to error in blueprints with a tendency to be placed incorrectly.
Cities Skylines vibes - problem is we don´t have bridges!!
How do you address the u turn problem
What problem is that? It's a useful maneuver. Too many can cause congestion but a good grid tends to avoid them.
@@BriansBasicStuffI gotta build one now, thanks for your suggestion
i once made a left way only road system in cities skylines.
Hello, could you test this cross ?
pastebin.com/dc59B01k
2 lane, RHD
i use it with 1-2 or 2-4 train with solid fuel or rocket fuel.
i don't have make the 4lane atm.
thanks
"loop junction" its called a roundabout
I refer to them as such sometimes. Mostly I just want to be as descriptive as possible.
large train collider lol
Are you using a voice changer?
я у которого однаколейка:
Large train collider
Hahahahaha
========x
========x
Instead X for all 4 better to select before head inner or outer circle to choose 🎯
========\ /
========/ \
This degrades performance because trains move inwards before the intersection to take the shorter inner loop thus increasing congestion and slowing traffic going through it. It was actually my original design but was shown to be flawed during testing.
@@BriansBasicStuff
Everything's remain the same except that 2 small interchanges x on 4 direction =8 no. , reduces to 1big X on 4 direction= 4 no.
Functioning, track selection, operating all remains same. I tried iterations.
@@kalpeshwani8520 You'll have to email me a screenshot. bcwhite@pobox.com
@@BriansBasicStuff
check limited unfair trains video by Matthew Pocock
@@kalpeshwani8520 Interesting. LTN obviously doesn't have that problem but I also question his analysis that the problem he displays might be the cause of an actual base where trains didn't make deliveries. The difference is that, in his case, the empty destinations always receive trains so there shouldn't be any starvation even if a provider or two doesn't get utilized when there is an abundance of supply.
🛑☀️🧭👍
why was my design not included? Mine is much better.
Well, you could try being respectful and even providing a pointer to your design.
@@BriansBasicStuff Oh I didn't realize these were your very own designs. I thought you downloaded them. Not bad lol
Working on same concept , additional to a common station at interchange.
ie. station/yard with intake /outlet all 2~8 directions. ~~ (>---