@@frankkoshel9318 Yeah. Dave wrote Everlong while recording Color and Shape, he was going through a divorce and the song came to him in between takes of other songs.
While it is ultimately useless to speculate what his drumming on the track would sound like, since he never played it and thus we'll never know -- Dave brought it to the band when they reconvened without him in Hollywood to redo essentially the entire album -- the fact that Goldsmith played Dave's S/T drum tracks note for note (including some songs with fills just as fancy as those in Everlong, and songs that were faster paced than Everlong) and essentially wrote all the drum parts for all the other TCATS tracks (Dave just re-recorded them, playing the parts Will wrote), there's no reason to automatically assume he wouldn't have been able to play it. In fact, if forced to speculate, he probably would've been able to play it just fine. Everlong has a VERY cool drum track, but it's not some unobtainable holy grail of impossible drumming that only elite drummers can pull off. They literally brought a 12 year old drummer (granted, a VERY GOOD 12 year old drummer) onstage to play it a few years back and she killed it. There are 8 gazillion very good drum covers on RUclips. It is a challenging track, but any drummer of intermediate or higher skill can do it with enough practice. Goldsmith's issues weren't playing hard drum parts. His issues were general lack of confidence, mixed with being a 23 year old who had never really recorded in a professional studio and wasn't used to how air tight the playing needed to be, mixed with beginning to have problems with CTS because of how hard he played that affected his ability to play as crisply as was required.
I love William's drumming on Diary (Sunny Day Real Estate), but Dave's drumming on these The Colour and the Shape songs to me sounds better. The biggest thing with Foo Fighters is the energy. Dave has more of a "thud thud boom" John Bonham-ish style, while Taylor reminds me of Stewart Copeland with his pop and precision, but you can see and hear it when either of them play, they're both very energetic (Taylor's referred to himself and Dave as "spazzes"). I can't take anything away from William though, he's a great drummer and sounds right at home with the emo/post-hardcore sound, just not the ideal fit for a power pop/post-grunge band like Foo Fighters.
William would have been fine in foo fighters. He just got mad at dave and quit. Its as much on will as it is on dave. I can tell will wasn’t as snare happy as dave or taylor and he had a looser feel but i think for color and the shape it had to be perfect or they would never be taken seriously. Dave did the right thing imo. If I were will I would be upset too but maybe stick it out and see what happens.
@@junkyardblaze189 you’re correct. Taylor Hawkins took no offense when he only played on half of TINLTS. There’s no official credits on who plays what.
Listen to Assertion, Will’s band, Supervised Suffering for example. He is not technical or precise as Grohl or Hawkins but he has a unique style, has personality. I wonder if they’d ask him to rejoin, but I am sure he’s not interested cause of Grohl. Hawkins was a monster, yes, but not unique, neither is Grohl’s drumming. RIP Taylor
@@MiguelPaulettePerez-bj8ml William did not think that either but drumming for Nirvana’s drummer was a lot of pressure, it was for Hawkins too, he said it many times. He was right to quit because his work was dismissed and Mendel did not support him. Grohl asked Will first to jam, then Mendel.
yeah, william had great fills, intricacy, inventiveness, chops, and creativity, but he was self taught and, as a result, his timing was shaky and his form wasn't good (which lead to serious physical problems later -- he hit hard as FUCK). so the things he built on the surface were really really great, but it was built upon an unstable base. which is unfortunate, because he was/is an amazing and creative drummer, just check out his recent instagram posts (@w_goldsmith i believe), he's a beast. he said in interviews that around 2004-ish he completely reinvented his technique, going back to the base and correcting all the things that were wrong from the start.
It's really hard to compare with the album version since these are very raw recordings. I was actually surprised about Goldsmith's performance, specially on my hero. I have worked with lackluster drummers that make songs sound flat and lifeless. I didn't feel that listening to these demos. But Grohl probably was a better fit at the time, who knows...
Agreed. I think Dave's drum tracks were most likely the better fit but I also think him having a hard time letting go of the drums played a part as well. He actually ended up drumming on half of the songs on There's Nothing Left to Lose. It wasn't until One by One where Taylor drummed on every track. So, I think the reason Taylor is in the band and William isn't, has less to do with skill and more to do with having patience being the 2nd drummer in the band.
Agree. Dave just came off FF debut and Nirvana. He was THE drummer for all those. He was a drummer first guitarist second. He was probably a touch self conscious of his guitar playing and knew he could make the drums exactly the way he wanted. He was in the position to control this and earned the position to control it. Im surprised listening to this. Goldsmith is a very good drummer. But Dave was shooting for the big leagues. Goldsmith actually shouldnt take it too personal. From what i knew Dave was letting him stay. Thats something only those guys know for sure though. It was a transitional time for the Foos. Could have gone up or down. Dave is always focused on going up. And busts his ass doing it.
@@ssonicdeafmonkey I agree completely. I can totally understand Dave's controlling nature of the first couple of Foo Fighters releases. As the songwriter Dave knew exactly how he wanted things to sound. Also he knew that you only get one chance to make a first impression and to stand out of Nirvana's shadow and he wanted to do it with 100 percent as he wanted. Dave has admitted that he handled the situation with William poorly but hey those were those times and those emotions. I am sure Dave and William would do things differently now. I understand William leaving and being frustrated because he was disrespected. I also understand Dave's rationale on why he did what he did too.
Dave Grohl is just a boring sellout with a specific formula in mind who doesn't want any personality entering in to his "art", it's clear from these demos which are FINE that that's why Goldsmith was cut. 20+ years of safe, mainstream pop rock drivel utterly ruined the little credibility he had from ~4 years in Nirvana.
@@danberkman8227 "As the songwriter Dave knew exactly how he wanted things to sound" Yes- boring, mainstream, and predictable. He can't have anyone around who wants to deviate from the formula.
Taylor is a mutant drummer when it comes to energy...it was never going to be enough, I think, for ever exceptional drummers. It had to be the best. :(
I can hear the missing fills too. Goldsmith is not a bad drummer though. Grohl just brings more bite, energy and the drum fills that thumbprint the songs better. Just think: where would Everlong be if Dave didn't drum on it...?
Dave Grohi have a very full "fill" on the drums and it took me a little while to get the right vibe and the constant changes between toms , cymbals , snare and bass ... it really feels nice after you get it together ... not for a beginner for sure or your "usual" drummer ... I have been playing for 44 years !
I still think it was fucked up what happened to William. He is a great drummer. As evidenced in these demos and the live performances of these songs, what he played isn't much different from Dave's parts on the album. I think Gil Norton wasn't happy with the drums and pressured Dave into re-doing the tracks. From what I've heard Norton was not pleasant to work with and was especially hard on Nate and William.
It really was. If Dave wasn't satisfied with William's drumming, he should have told him. Throwing out his work without any warning must have been a huge slap in the face.
Honestly, I don’t really think he was quite like Dave tho. Dave’s drumming was just really something else, especially in “My hero” now obviously these are just demos, but still.
Come on lol. The “My Hero” drum track was mediocre at best with William, Dave made the intro way more iconic by breaking up the kick drum pattern which is much harder to do compared to keeping it straight (what William did)
@@jd0879 It's actually easier to play with the kick drum pattern broken up. Gives you a little bit of a rest in a beat that demands a lot of kick stamina. It does sound more appealing with the broken up pattern, though.
What the fuck Dave was thinking treating this great drummer with so much disrespect? His groove and punch are unbelievable! What about making amends with him and bring back this GREAT drummer?!?!
@@grungefanboy9594 but the initial recording process was with Goldsmith and they finished some songs. Grohl wasn't satisfied and ended up playing all of the drums on the album.
It’s nice to hear these demos. Dave just has better time, fills and precision than William. Also Dave overcame paralyzing stage fright and William from what he said in his “Back and Forth” interviews never did. You can’t play stadiums if you’re to terrified to play.
If you listen to SDRE’s diary and LP2, those albums blow the entire foos discography out of the water. Keeping time and having precision can only do so much. That’s why Dave’s drumming isn’t as memorable aside from him being that drummer from nirvana, where as Goldsmith’s drumming has more character and soul than Dave’s generic garbage.
The comments on this are people arguing over who the best drummer is, but can we all just agree that foo fighters are awesome instead of arguing all the time?
You can try to listen to a version of “My Poor Brain” extracted from a Rock Band game. Goldsmith’s drum track was used instead of Grohl’s for that version.
Not much is available, really ... - Up in Arms (Slow Version) - The Colour and the Shape (the B-Side song) - My Poor Brain (Verses) - Doll The rest are rough demos from January of 1996 and October of 1996, but nothing else from the actual first sessions they did for The Colour and the Shape with William back in November of 1996, those that I listed above are the only material that has surfaced from, and See You (Acoustic Version) but that has no drum track, since Dave recorded the drum parts during the re-recording of TCATS
I always have, and always will, love and prefer, early Foo Fighters (1994-1999). Whether if it was William, or Dave or Taylor behind the drums, all of the music from FF, The Colour And The Shape, and There Is Nothing Left To Lose, is my favorite hard rock of all time. .... I just wish I could find a good recording of "Gas Chamber" to listen to even once, I don't think I've ever heard it so far in my life.... I think I've heard "Exhausted" and the couple or few other demos that have never been released, but yeah.
too bad they never made it to the proper studio production; a fully produced set of this would be superlative. This is Dave doing his best Dan Hoerner he can muster, and I can hear the imminent collapse of Goldsmith's tenure although the tension is friggin amazing. Kind of a brown sound from an interpersonal perspective
Goldsmith isn't a bad drummer, but he's not a flam hitting triplet throwing consistent drummer like Dave. His work in Sunny Day Real Estate shows that he's got a more open and garage-like style. Didn't suite the style that the Foo's were going for at the time but definitely suites SDRE and that kind of early post-hardcore drumming. More emotive, less powerhouse.
It wouldn't have sounded much different if Dave kept the recordings as they were. I don't know if these were meant to be the final recordings, but they still would have sounded good. I like William in SDRE too, and he would be a cool person to meet in person. I would just want the drums to pop a little bit more.
>I don't know if these were meant to be the final recordings They weren't. These are from some quick, poorly recorded demos the band banged out to show potential producers. The Bear Creek session takes are what were deemed "not good enough", and the few tracks I've heard of those (the My Poor Brain and Up In Arms drum tracks used in Rock Band) sound the same as the album version apart from a slightly different intro to MPB, which is hardly worth scrapping the entire recording for. Like, literally just tell him "hey, do that again with more snare hits". The song already has a hard cut from the intro to the verse, redoing the intro with more snare hits would've been trivially easy if that's what Dave wanted.
Taylor is great, but the problem is every Foo album after Color and the Shape has been bland pop-rock. Taylor was much better when he drummed for Coheed and Cambria and his solo album alone was better than anything Foo Fighters have put out.
You can hear when it at 0:25 that he just didn’t have it. Of course he’s a great drummer. And in my opinion, Taylor Hawkins IS better but also... nobody but Dave Grohl, is Dave Grohl
I can see what you mean. Goldsmith surely has talent and can do some amazing things on drums (Sunny Day's Seven is evidence enough) but I don't think the dude could "RAWK" and deliver the intensity that Dave was used to given his punk background and just the way he plays drums.
@@danberkman8227 If you don't think Goldsmith could "rawk" and have intensity, check out literally any live footage from 95-96. Dude went absolutely beast mode on the drums -- TOO beast mode; he hit so hard he messed his wrists and shoulders up.
It's all in the details: Dynamics, fills, timing. Subtle differences between these William's drums takes and Dave ones, but those are the type of things that pay-off finally, specially on a recording. Dave is a perfectionist and, unlike Williams (which for me was a "not-that-good" version of Dave's drumming) Taylor is a great addition because he brings somethings that Dave doesn't have.
@@damesoumbi Dave it's not about doing plenty of things so his drumming can shine. He knows what makes a good song, and stick to that. What's the point of playing lots of things, or creative things, if you don't make the song better? Besides, have you listened to Taylor's own records? Pretty creative as well. Also, what makes you think I don't know Sunny Day Real State? I'm super fan of Jeremy :)
The sound of FF changed a lot after Goldsmith's departure. It lost that indie touch and became more comercial. For me it's similar to when Adler was kicked out GnR. But there, the band lost some of its groove. Anyways, it's incredible how a drummer replacement can represent to any band's sounds. Abbruzzese (Pearl Jam) same story. Probably the reason Led Zeppelin never dared to release another album without Bonham.
First time I’ve heard this. Can’t 100% tell as this recording is weak, but Wtf Dave? William’s drums sound pretty decent! Also, god bless at this time 🙏
goldsmith has that stoner, dragging low energy sound. he speeds up and slows down all over the place, his hits aren't super consistent either. he's not bad, but he doesn't have that quantised, high energy rock sound that made foo fighters big in the first place.
Yo have you ever seen SDRE live ?! Have you ever listened to the rising tide ? William is a monster . If he allowed Dave to record the record and then toured like Taylor did on the next record after this one he may still be in the band.
Esse cara é um ótimo baterista, mas acho que ficou intimidado em estar numa banda com Dave Grohl. E Dave ainda não ajudou muito. Acho que não sabia bem ser líder de banda e deu no que deu em relação ao William.
E ele não volta. Tá em um banda própria, o Taylor em 2018, falou que o Dave nunca demitiu ele e que nunca quis, que na verdade ele não suportou a pressão de estar na banda. Eu mesmo quero ver que rumo a banda vai tomar depois da morte do Taylor.
William was good but its hard to be in a band that your lead singer just came out of the greatest rock band of that time playing drums in nirvana,Dave's just more consistent an has better fills,
The handful of Goldsmith drum tracks that have been released from the Bear Creek sessions that were supposedly "not up to par" -- My Poor Brain and Up In Arms -- sound exactly the same as on the album, apart from being mixed differently. This demo is a demo the band recorded months prior, when they were still writing the songs. Dave doesn't even have all the lyrics written or finalized yet -- especially in My Hero. They were clearly still writing the songs.
Nope, Dave's drumming is better. I can hear inconsistencies in this guy's overall bpm and style. Not saying he's horrible, but Dave Grohl is literally one of the greatest drummers of the last...like 30 years maybe? He had the same effect when taking over for Chad in Nirvana.
man, to me goldsmith is a very good drummer, but as dave said, his drums wasn't what the song needed, see the my hero version on the video for example, of course there was a bit of his ego influence for the decision that has been made, but he wasn't entirely wrong, he doesn't have a big ego, he's just a person that is hard to impress, just like Taylor Hawkins said, and talking 'bout him, he surely has nothing to do with this, so all those discussions of who is the best drummer of FF are totally useless, things happened and we can't change it, so let's just live the moment without fighting for stupid reasons
@@youtubeman78937 if you think so, but if by that you mean that foos songs in that era are easy, taylor himself has said that to play it you have to be an athlete, and myself as a drummer can confirm it, 100% guaranteed
William Goldsmith is your standard 90’s drummer but I can’t fault what he’s playing but compared to Taylor Hawkins who I think has more of a Roger Taylor quality it is Taylor every time but Taylor Hawkins gets onto best drummer lists far ahead of Dave Grohl now so the comparison is unfair. It would be like comparing Dave to John Bonham and no one comes out well when compared to Bonham, not even Dave.
William killed it! Taylor is more arena rock, but for this time and these tunes nothing beats Williams drums. Nates old bass line and tone on My Hero sounds terrible though. Glad they fixed it for the album.
You have to be actually mixing a record in a professional studio to be able to judge drum parts. Yes, Goldsmith sounds good here and live too, but Everlong is a demanding drum part. Maybe the pressure of recording an album with the Nirvana drummer there... Dave didn't actually fire him. But yes, he should have talked to him first, and then redo the tracks.
Goldsmith never recorded Everlong. Dave brought it to the band during the sessions they did without telling Will. Given that Will played Dave's S/T drum patterns note for note -- some of which had fills just as fancy as Everlong, and some of which were even faster paced -- I have no doubt Will could've replicated the parts Dave wrote for Everlong live, and likely would've even been fine with Dave drumming on that track for the album if he had a very specific vision in mind for it -- as long as Dave TALKED TO HIM about it, which was kinda the whole issue. Everlong is a very cool drum track, but it's not some unobtainable impossible track to play. As a drummer myself (one that can do Everlong note for note), the hardest parts of the song are 1) having the cardio required to play up tempo 16th notes on the high hat for almost 5 minutes straight and in a distant second play 2) learning a couple of fancy fills on the pre-chorus and chorus. The rest of the song is literally just bog standard kick and snare patterns and basic fills; like, yeah, it's fast paced, but Will clearly has no trouble playing fast (check out his playing on Good Grief or Gas Chamber live, or the all-fast version of Up In Arms from the Brixton show). They literally brought a 12 year old drummer out to play it with them a few years ago (granted, a VERY GOOD 12 year old drummer) and there are about a gazillion videos on RUclips of people covering the drums just fine. It's a very cool drum part, but it's not even in the ballpark of impossible to anyone with more than an intermediate level of skill.
Meh, it sounds pretty solid to me: fairly similar to the album version (which was apparently completely re-recorded?). Let's be honest, though: it was always going to be as Dave wanted it, whether played by another drum or him personally. Honestly, the guitars sound more off in "My Hero" than the drums, and I don't think Dave ever replaced himself :-P. Taylor has also admitted that he's pretty much just a glorified drum machine for Dave's demands lol...it's a friendly type of "controlling"
I mean Goldsmith misses the fill into the last chorus of Enough Space, and the My Hero drums sound like a fan covering it, but yeah he's fine in this. However, his real downside was live, he just wasn't what this band needed for live shows. In order for Foo Fighters songs to 'pop', they needed strong fills, and PRECISE execution, particularly live. Otherwise they would just be a great garage band with a formerly famous musician as a singer, and therefore would have never made it long enough to write the songs we all now love. Thanks William for your contributions getting it off the ground, but it definitely progressed where it needed to go in terms of lineup.
Will Goldsmith left Foo Fighters because he's a weirdo. Go listen the interview with him. Dude talks about witch doctors. I wouldn't want him my band either. And I love his drumming.
Yeah, guy's got problems. I sympathize with him having panic disorder as it is debilitating, but I don't think he's golfing with a full set of clubs if you get me. He said if he'd toured TCATS after Dave drumming on the album he would have become a drugged out mess and probably have ended up dead, which to me says he's got pretty big issues going on aside from the band. I hope things are better for him now but I don't think he was up for touring as much as the band needed to at that point.
You can’t judge Goldsmith’s drumming by these extremely poor quality demos. To make a fair judgement you’d have to hear his final takes in the studio after Gil Norton rode his ass for a while, but I’m guessing those recordings are long lost to the sands of time. Which is a shame, I’d LOVE to hear them.
Will Goldsmith is and excellent drummer, no question - Just listen to any Sunny Day Real Estate record. HOWEVER, I don't think he hits as hard CONSISTENTLY as Dave and I believe that it was precisely that point that made Dave think he could to it better. That said, one comment below is also correct in that Dave's ego sometimes takes control a bit too much. All of that aside, Taylor Hawkins is not nearly as good as EITHER Grohl or Goldsmith. I once heard Dave call Taylor "the best drummer you're going to hear for a long, long time..." Hell, Tre Cool of Green Day makes Taylor sound like a child hitting a toy Sears kit... not sure what Dave's infatuation with Taylor is/was and I don't mean to knock Taylor TOO MUCH, he is a very good drummer, but for Dave to kind of screw Goldsmith that way and then act like Hawkins is one of the greatest drummers in the world was and is immature, stupid and silly.
Taylor is a great drummer but I've always thought his style doesn't fit the bands music. The Foo Fighters are a straight ahead rock band and Taylor's style is more in the vein of Neil Peart and Stewart Copeland. From a technical standpoint, Taylor is the best of the three but Dave and William's drumming suited the Foo Fighters music better.
smallclone I guess that depends which Foo Fighters era one prefers. I see Taylor's influence as a key factor to the sound the Foos developed from 2005 up to now. That being said, I do prefer the early material and wish they had stayed making alternative music.
smallclone I don't know about that, man. I love William's playing. SDRE is one of my very favorite bands of all time. But Taylor Hawkins is a very good drummer and very good for the Foo Fighters. Too bad I don't really like the FFs (except for a couple of songs).
good drummer ? duh ! but it's all about " the pocket " . and if you can " feel "the groove .you will find this has a dragging , slower vibe . that is simply pocket ! william just plays a little back from the groove . bad ? no!!! just not the proper ingredient for this "stew" . P.S. if you took the masters and brought the drum track forward [ as in time ] just a few milli seconds it would sound just fine .but ya just can't do that live . WELL ....YET ?!?!
You are in a band to have fun, male music together for fun. You start taking it seriously you become egotistical and a solo artist with a backing band. He chose the later.
To be fair though they wanted to turn it into a proper career. If it was just for fun, just a bit of a laugh then sure don't have quality control or standards, but if you want to make it big you sort of have to care about it being as good as possible. That being said I can't really hear anything wrong with the drumming. It's the songs themselves that don't grab me.
Foo Fighters 1996 Demo
(for mobile users)
00:00 Enough Space
02:30 Butterflies (cuts in)
05:14 I'm Alone Again
09:50 My Hero
Dude I was about to ignore this and scroll on by, but too fuckin funny, A+
YOU'RE BLASPHEMY
@@krissyanndepasquale3102 Worship the guru
Foo Fighters was a Nirvana/Sunny Day Real Estate supergroup.
nirvana was a nirvana supergroup
Still is brotha
Not to mention the germs, no use for a name, brotherhood etc
more like Nirvana/SDRE/Germs. it’s cool that they all came from punk rock.
Actually it’s a Nirvana,SDRE, Germs and SCREAM supergroup
oh god i wanna hear everlong Goldsmith's version
I WISH IT WAS HERE
@@kyokari4Sadly Everlong was made and written in the studio immediately after Goldsmith left
@@smarkmalark I figured it was Goldsmith struggling on Everlong that got him replaced
@@frankkoshel9318 Yeah. Dave wrote Everlong while recording Color and Shape, he was going through a divorce and the song came to him in between takes of other songs.
While it is ultimately useless to speculate what his drumming on the track would sound like, since he never played it and thus we'll never know -- Dave brought it to the band when they reconvened without him in Hollywood to redo essentially the entire album -- the fact that Goldsmith played Dave's S/T drum tracks note for note (including some songs with fills just as fancy as those in Everlong, and songs that were faster paced than Everlong) and essentially wrote all the drum parts for all the other TCATS tracks (Dave just re-recorded them, playing the parts Will wrote), there's no reason to automatically assume he wouldn't have been able to play it.
In fact, if forced to speculate, he probably would've been able to play it just fine. Everlong has a VERY cool drum track, but it's not some unobtainable holy grail of impossible drumming that only elite drummers can pull off. They literally brought a 12 year old drummer (granted, a VERY GOOD 12 year old drummer) onstage to play it a few years back and she killed it. There are 8 gazillion very good drum covers on RUclips. It is a challenging track, but any drummer of intermediate or higher skill can do it with enough practice.
Goldsmith's issues weren't playing hard drum parts. His issues were general lack of confidence, mixed with being a 23 year old who had never really recorded in a professional studio and wasn't used to how air tight the playing needed to be, mixed with beginning to have problems with CTS because of how hard he played that affected his ability to play as crisply as was required.
I love William's drumming on Diary (Sunny Day Real Estate), but Dave's drumming on these The Colour and the Shape songs to me sounds better. The biggest thing with Foo Fighters is the energy. Dave has more of a "thud thud boom" John Bonham-ish style, while Taylor reminds me of Stewart Copeland with his pop and precision, but you can see and hear it when either of them play, they're both very energetic (Taylor's referred to himself and Dave as "spazzes"). I can't take anything away from William though, he's a great drummer and sounds right at home with the emo/post-hardcore sound, just not the ideal fit for a power pop/post-grunge band like Foo Fighters.
William would have been fine in foo fighters. He just got mad at dave and quit. Its as much on will as it is on dave. I can tell will wasn’t as snare happy as dave or taylor and he had a looser feel but i think for color and the shape it had to be perfect or they would never be taken seriously. Dave did the right thing imo. If I were will I would be upset too but maybe stick it out and see what happens.
@@junkyardblaze189 you’re correct. Taylor Hawkins took no offense when he only played on half of TINLTS. There’s no official credits on who plays what.
@@MyNameIsFredFuchs Taylor came in from being a hired gun. I think he didn't think his job was secure like William did.
Listen to Assertion, Will’s band, Supervised Suffering for example. He is not technical or precise as Grohl or Hawkins but he has a unique style, has personality. I wonder if they’d ask him to rejoin, but I am sure he’s not interested cause of Grohl. Hawkins was a monster, yes, but not unique, neither is Grohl’s drumming. RIP Taylor
@@MiguelPaulettePerez-bj8ml William did not think that either but drumming for Nirvana’s drummer was a lot of pressure, it was for Hawkins too, he said it many times. He was right to quit because his work was dismissed and Mendel did not support him. Grohl asked Will first to jam, then Mendel.
It's crazy. After 25 years I'm still hearing songs by them I've never heard. Lol
I'm Alone Again is fucking rad
QOTSA-ish, love when the foos sound a little like them, I think there will be an influence in the next record
Gotti: Absolutely!
Always loved "butterflies"...
Is it just me, or is the Enough Space vocal recording the EXACT same one that made it onto TCATS??? it sounds identical.
The verses sound very similar but not the screaming at all.
William :
Plays grooves, multiple takes happen, completes demo.
Dave :
Not my tempo.
Lmao
stillphil Very True
yeah, william had great fills, intricacy, inventiveness, chops, and creativity, but he was self taught and, as a result, his timing was shaky and his form wasn't good (which lead to serious physical problems later -- he hit hard as FUCK). so the things he built on the surface were really really great, but it was built upon an unstable base. which is unfortunate, because he was/is an amazing and creative drummer, just check out his recent instagram posts (@w_goldsmith i believe), he's a beast. he said in interviews that around 2004-ish he completely reinvented his technique, going back to the base and correcting all the things that were wrong from the start.
@@damesoumbi very well put and good info. gracias!
@@damesoumbi Being self-taught has nothing to do with timing. Dave Grohl was also self-taught and you could set an atomic clock to his drumming.
I wish they recorded Butterflies and I'm Alone Again for their next record.
It's really hard to compare with the album version since these are very raw recordings. I was actually surprised about Goldsmith's performance, specially on my hero. I have worked with lackluster drummers that make songs sound flat and lifeless. I didn't feel that listening to these demos. But Grohl probably was a better fit at the time, who knows...
Agreed. I think Dave's drum tracks were most likely the better fit but I also think him having a hard time letting go of the drums played a part as well. He actually ended up drumming on half of the songs on There's Nothing Left to Lose. It wasn't until One by One where Taylor drummed on every track. So, I think the reason Taylor is in the band and William isn't, has less to do with skill and more to do with having patience being the 2nd drummer in the band.
Agree. Dave just came off FF debut and Nirvana. He was THE drummer for all those. He was a drummer first guitarist second. He was probably a touch self conscious of his guitar playing and knew he could make the drums exactly the way he wanted. He was in the position to control this and earned the position to control it. Im surprised listening to this. Goldsmith is a very good drummer. But Dave was shooting for the big leagues. Goldsmith actually shouldnt take it too personal. From what i knew Dave was letting him stay. Thats something only those guys know for sure though. It was a transitional time for the Foos. Could have gone up or down. Dave is always focused on going up. And busts his ass doing it.
@@ssonicdeafmonkey I agree completely. I can totally understand Dave's controlling nature of the first couple of Foo Fighters releases. As the songwriter Dave knew exactly how he wanted things to sound. Also he knew that you only get one chance to make a first impression and to stand out of Nirvana's shadow and he wanted to do it with 100 percent as he wanted. Dave has admitted that he handled the situation with William poorly but hey those were those times and those emotions. I am sure Dave and William would do things differently now. I understand William leaving and being frustrated because he was disrespected. I also understand Dave's rationale on why he did what he did too.
Dave Grohl is just a boring sellout with a specific formula in mind who doesn't want any personality entering in to his "art", it's clear from these demos which are FINE that that's why Goldsmith was cut. 20+ years of safe, mainstream pop rock drivel utterly ruined the little credibility he had from ~4 years in Nirvana.
@@danberkman8227 "As the songwriter Dave knew exactly how he wanted things to sound"
Yes- boring, mainstream, and predictable. He can't have anyone around who wants to deviate from the formula.
William's drum parts are top notch on these demos. My new fav drummer recently. On SDRE and Assertion.
the drum on the first song is all over the place
I'm alone again fucking awesome. Best song on the all fucking discography
Goldsmith is clearly a very good drummer but the Foo's sound demands more energetic drums fills.
Taylor is a mutant drummer when it comes to energy...it was never going to be enough, I think, for ever exceptional drummers. It had to be the best. :(
I can hear the missing fills too. Goldsmith is not a bad drummer though. Grohl just brings more bite, energy and the drum fills that thumbprint the songs better. Just think: where would Everlong be if Dave didn't drum on it...?
Goldsmith would have been an amazing drummer for Nirvana.And no,I'm not kiddin'!
Maybe, but you know what caught me about Nirvana along - WITH KURT it was their drummer.
More energetic fills? Listen to old Sunny Day Real Estate records. William just played Dave's drumstyle 1:1.
Dave Grohi have a very full "fill" on the drums and it took me a little while to get the right vibe and the constant changes between toms , cymbals , snare and bass ... it really feels nice after you get it together ... not for a beginner for sure or your "usual" drummer ... I have been playing for 44 years !
Pena que i'm alone again foi esquecida bixo
I still think it was fucked up what happened to William. He is a great drummer. As evidenced in these demos and the live performances of these songs, what he played isn't much different from Dave's parts on the album. I think Gil Norton wasn't happy with the drums and pressured Dave into re-doing the tracks. From what I've heard Norton was not pleasant to work with and was especially hard on Nate and William.
It really was. If Dave wasn't satisfied with William's drumming, he should have told him. Throwing out his work without any warning must have been a huge slap in the face.
Honestly, I don’t really think he was quite like Dave tho. Dave’s drumming was just really something else, especially in “My hero” now obviously these are just demos, but still.
Come on lol. The “My Hero” drum track was mediocre at best with William, Dave made the intro way more iconic by breaking up the kick drum pattern which is much harder to do compared to keeping it straight (what William did)
@@jd0879 for sure honestly, not that William is a bad drummer, but Dave definitely brought more feel to the song
@@jd0879 It's actually easier to play with the kick drum pattern broken up. Gives you a little bit of a rest in a beat that demands a lot of kick stamina. It does sound more appealing with the broken up pattern, though.
What the fuck Dave was thinking treating this great drummer with so much disrespect? His groove and punch are unbelievable! What about making amends with him and bring back this GREAT drummer?!?!
This was a great sound
thank god they re-recorded this album
whatsuphotdog it’s demos.
@@grungefanboy9594 but the initial recording process was with Goldsmith and they finished some songs. Grohl wasn't satisfied and ended up playing all of the drums on the album.
whatsuphotdog oh yeah, I’m sorry
@@whatsuphotdog The final product is almost too polished. I like the rawer sound with Goldsmith, both live and on the demo recordings.
@@jakedibiase7404 agree
This is super cool! Thanks for posting! Ever since I saw their Back and Fourth documentary I've wanted to hear these.
It’s nice to hear these demos. Dave just has better time, fills and precision than William. Also Dave overcame paralyzing stage fright and William from what he said in his “Back and Forth” interviews never did. You can’t play stadiums if you’re to terrified to play.
If you listen to SDRE’s diary and LP2, those albums blow the entire foos discography out of the water. Keeping time and having precision can only do so much. That’s why Dave’s drumming isn’t as memorable aside from him being that drummer from nirvana, where as Goldsmith’s drumming has more character and soul than Dave’s generic garbage.
@@davemac9563 Dave makes over-engineered bubble gum rock for NPCs, that's why someone with any actual creativity wouldn't work in that band.
The comments on this are people arguing over who the best drummer is, but can we all just agree that foo fighters are awesome instead of arguing all the time?
Damn that’s some solid drumming!
Great hearing these. Thanks. ☺️🎸🎤🥁🎸
Are there ANY tapes out there of Colour and the Shape with Goldsmith's drum tracks?
You can try to listen to a version of “My Poor Brain” extracted from a Rock Band game. Goldsmith’s drum track was used instead of Grohl’s for that version.
@@suikogarden link?
Not much is available, really ...
- Up in Arms (Slow Version)
- The Colour and the Shape (the B-Side song)
- My Poor Brain (Verses)
- Doll
The rest are rough demos from January of 1996 and October of 1996, but nothing else from the actual first sessions they did for The Colour and the Shape with William back in November of 1996, those that I listed above are the only material that has surfaced from, and See You (Acoustic Version) but that has no drum track, since Dave recorded the drum parts during the re-recording of TCATS
I always have, and always will, love and prefer, early Foo Fighters (1994-1999). Whether if it was William, or Dave or Taylor behind the drums, all of the music from FF, The Colour And The Shape, and There Is Nothing Left To Lose, is my favorite hard rock of all time. .... I just wish I could find a good recording of "Gas Chamber" to listen to even once, I don't think I've ever heard it so far in my life.... I think I've heard "Exhausted" and the couple or few other demos that have never been released, but yeah.
too bad they never made it to the proper studio production; a fully produced set of this would be superlative. This is Dave doing his best Dan Hoerner he can muster, and I can hear the imminent collapse of Goldsmith's tenure although the tension is friggin amazing. Kind of a brown sound from an interpersonal perspective
exactly, love the sound
His drumming ain't that bad...
Are you freakin' kidding me? Goldsmith was their BEST DRUMMER!!!
Goldsmith is the best FF drummer
Goldsmith isn't a bad drummer, but he's not a flam hitting triplet throwing consistent drummer like Dave. His work in Sunny Day Real Estate shows that he's got a more open and garage-like style. Didn't suite the style that the Foo's were going for at the time but definitely suites SDRE and that kind of early post-hardcore drumming. More emotive, less powerhouse.
It's more about the feeling than skills bruh
5/4 by Sunny Day Real Estate
It wouldn't have sounded much different if Dave kept the recordings as they were. I don't know if these were meant to be the final recordings, but they still would have sounded good. I like William in SDRE too, and he would be a cool person to meet in person. I would just want the drums to pop a little bit more.
These aren't even the album recordings. These are from the session they did for the X-Files soundtrack.
>I don't know if these were meant to be the final recordings
They weren't. These are from some quick, poorly recorded demos the band banged out to show potential producers. The Bear Creek session takes are what were deemed "not good enough", and the few tracks I've heard of those (the My Poor Brain and Up In Arms drum tracks used in Rock Band) sound the same as the album version apart from a slightly different intro to MPB, which is hardly worth scrapping the entire recording for.
Like, literally just tell him "hey, do that again with more snare hits". The song already has a hard cut from the intro to the verse, redoing the intro with more snare hits would've been trivially easy if that's what Dave wanted.
For all the people saying William is better than Taylor . Listen to “rope” .
Taylor is great, but the problem is every Foo album after Color and the Shape has been bland pop-rock. Taylor was much better when he drummed for Coheed and Cambria and his solo album alone was better than anything Foo Fighters have put out.
Chris nope, more like wasting light
You can hear when it at 0:25 that he just didn’t have it. Of course he’s a great drummer. And in my opinion, Taylor Hawkins IS better but also... nobody but Dave Grohl, is Dave Grohl
I can see what you mean. Goldsmith surely has talent and can do some amazing things on drums (Sunny Day's Seven is evidence enough) but I don't think the dude could "RAWK" and deliver the intensity that Dave was used to given his punk background and just the way he plays drums.
@@danberkman8227 If you don't think Goldsmith could "rawk" and have intensity, check out literally any live footage from 95-96. Dude went absolutely beast mode on the drums -- TOO beast mode; he hit so hard he messed his wrists and shoulders up.
The opening riff to "I'm alone again" sounds very PJ Harvey
It's all in the details: Dynamics, fills, timing. Subtle differences between these William's drums takes and Dave ones, but those are the type of things that pay-off finally, specially on a recording. Dave is a perfectionist and, unlike Williams (which for me was a "not-that-good" version of Dave's drumming) Taylor is a great addition because he brings somethings that Dave doesn't have.
listen to a SDRE record -- William's drumming eclipses Dave's or Taylor's in creativity and inventiveness
@@damesoumbi Dave it's not about doing plenty of things so his drumming can shine. He knows what makes a good song, and stick to that. What's the point of playing lots of things, or creative things, if you don't make the song better? Besides, have you listened to Taylor's own records? Pretty creative as well. Also, what makes you think I don't know Sunny Day Real State? I'm super fan of Jeremy :)
Details don't matter when all you're making is over-engineered bubble gum rock for NPCs.
These aren't the takes that Dave re-recorded. These are from a demo the band made while shopping around for a producer for TCATS.
The sound of FF changed a lot after Goldsmith's departure. It lost that indie touch and became more comercial. For me it's similar to when Adler was kicked out GnR. But there, the band lost some of its groove. Anyways, it's incredible how a drummer replacement can represent to any band's sounds. Abbruzzese (Pearl Jam) same story. Probably the reason Led Zeppelin never dared to release another album without Bonham.
First time I’ve heard this. Can’t 100% tell as this recording is weak, but Wtf Dave?
William’s drums sound pretty decent!
Also, god bless at this time 🙏
goldsmith has that stoner, dragging low energy sound. he speeds up and slows down all over the place, his hits aren't super consistent either. he's not bad, but he doesn't have that quantised, high energy rock sound that made foo fighters big in the first place.
You also just described another reason why Chad Channing was kicked out of Nirvana,history indeed repeats itself
@@anus333 William is a much tighter player than Chad. I still prefer William to Taylor.
@@jakedibiase7404 But you gotta at least admit he does make pretty creative and unique drum parts
Yo have you ever seen SDRE live ?! Have you ever listened to the rising tide ? William is a monster . If he allowed Dave to record the record and then toured like Taylor did on the next record after this one he may still be in the band.
I grew up in Seattle and the rumor was he had a life & death drinking problem when this was all going on.
Esse cara é um ótimo baterista, mas acho que ficou intimidado em estar numa banda com Dave Grohl. E Dave ainda não ajudou muito. Acho que não sabia bem ser líder de banda e deu no que deu em relação ao William.
E ele não volta. Tá em um banda própria, o Taylor em 2018, falou que o Dave nunca demitiu ele e que nunca quis, que na verdade ele não suportou a pressão de estar na banda. Eu mesmo quero ver que rumo a banda vai tomar depois da morte do Taylor.
i’m a guitarist not a drummer but i still don’t understand his issues with goldsmiths drumming honestly
Should have kept goldsmith
Williams pocket is more behind the beat while Taylors is more on top it
not really
William was good but its hard to be in a band that your lead singer just came out of the greatest rock band of that time playing drums in nirvana,Dave's just more consistent an has better fills,
The handful of Goldsmith drum tracks that have been released from the Bear Creek sessions that were supposedly "not up to par" -- My Poor Brain and Up In Arms -- sound exactly the same as on the album, apart from being mixed differently.
This demo is a demo the band recorded months prior, when they were still writing the songs. Dave doesn't even have all the lyrics written or finalized yet -- especially in My Hero. They were clearly still writing the songs.
Nope, Dave's drumming is better. I can hear inconsistencies in this guy's overall bpm and style. Not saying he's horrible, but Dave Grohl is literally one of the greatest drummers of the last...like 30 years maybe? He had the same effect when taking over for Chad in Nirvana.
man, to me goldsmith is a very good drummer, but as dave said, his drums wasn't what the song needed, see the my hero version on the video for example, of course there was a bit of his ego influence for the decision that has been made, but he wasn't entirely wrong, he doesn't have a big ego, he's just a person that is hard to impress, just like Taylor Hawkins said, and talking 'bout him, he surely has nothing to do with this, so all those discussions of who is the best drummer of FF are totally useless, things happened and we can't change it, so let's just live the moment without fighting for stupid reasons
Yeah, Goldsmith just wasn't the right guy in the end to help Grohl make his safe, lamestream, bubble gum rock albums.
@@youtubeman78937 if you think so, but if by that you mean that foos songs in that era are easy, taylor himself has said that to play it you have to be an athlete, and myself as a drummer can confirm it, 100% guaranteed
William Goldsmith is your standard 90’s drummer but I can’t fault what he’s playing but compared to Taylor Hawkins who I think has more of a Roger Taylor quality it is Taylor every time but Taylor Hawkins gets onto best drummer lists far ahead of Dave Grohl now so the comparison is unfair. It would be like comparing Dave to John Bonham and no one comes out well when compared to Bonham, not even Dave.
William killed it! Taylor is more arena rock, but for this time and these tunes nothing beats Williams drums. Nates old bass line and tone on My Hero sounds terrible though. Glad they fixed it for the album.
I can see why Dave re recorded these drum parts. Goldsmith was good, but didn't mesh well with the Foo's style.
William is punk/taylor is showbiz
lmao
😂 only someone who has no idea would say that. you seen what he wears on stage? same shit he wears every other day.
not too great not too bad
You have to be actually mixing a record in a professional studio to be able to judge drum parts. Yes, Goldsmith sounds good here and live too, but Everlong is a demanding drum part. Maybe the pressure of recording an album with the Nirvana drummer there... Dave didn't actually fire him. But yes, he should have talked to him first, and then redo the tracks.
That's probably the only drum part on the album he should'ved bothered redoing. Grohl is just stuck to his boring, bubble gum rock formula.
Goldsmith never recorded Everlong. Dave brought it to the band during the sessions they did without telling Will.
Given that Will played Dave's S/T drum patterns note for note -- some of which had fills just as fancy as Everlong, and some of which were even faster paced -- I have no doubt Will could've replicated the parts Dave wrote for Everlong live, and likely would've even been fine with Dave drumming on that track for the album if he had a very specific vision in mind for it -- as long as Dave TALKED TO HIM about it, which was kinda the whole issue.
Everlong is a very cool drum track, but it's not some unobtainable impossible track to play. As a drummer myself (one that can do Everlong note for note), the hardest parts of the song are 1) having the cardio required to play up tempo 16th notes on the high hat for almost 5 minutes straight and in a distant second play 2) learning a couple of fancy fills on the pre-chorus and chorus. The rest of the song is literally just bog standard kick and snare patterns and basic fills; like, yeah, it's fast paced, but Will clearly has no trouble playing fast (check out his playing on Good Grief or Gas Chamber live, or the all-fast version of Up In Arms from the Brixton show).
They literally brought a 12 year old drummer out to play it with them a few years ago (granted, a VERY GOOD 12 year old drummer) and there are about a gazillion videos on RUclips of people covering the drums just fine. It's a very cool drum part, but it's not even in the ballpark of impossible to anyone with more than an intermediate level of skill.
i don't like the "My Hero" drumming.. dave was right on that point..
+pacomisterio Dave just added a floor tom track, but the rest it's pretty much the same
he removed some toms and added some "Scentless Apprentice rythm"
pacomisterio what are you talking about this sounds so much more aggressive and powerful
yea no
Meh, it sounds pretty solid to me: fairly similar to the album version (which was apparently completely re-recorded?). Let's be honest, though: it was always going to be as Dave wanted it, whether played by another drum or him personally. Honestly, the guitars sound more off in "My Hero" than the drums, and I don't think Dave ever replaced himself :-P. Taylor has also admitted that he's pretty much just a glorified drum machine for Dave's demands lol...it's a friendly type of "controlling"
I mean Goldsmith misses the fill into the last chorus of Enough Space, and the My Hero drums sound like a fan covering it, but yeah he's fine in this. However, his real downside was live, he just wasn't what this band needed for live shows. In order for Foo Fighters songs to 'pop', they needed strong fills, and PRECISE execution, particularly live. Otherwise they would just be a great garage band with a formerly famous musician as a singer, and therefore would have never made it long enough to write the songs we all now love. Thanks William for your contributions getting it off the ground, but it definitely progressed where it needed to go in terms of lineup.
They should have re-recorded "I'm Alone Again" for One By One and left off one of the weak tracks like "Halo"
Will Goldsmith left Foo Fighters because he's a weirdo. Go listen the interview with him. Dude talks about witch doctors. I wouldn't want him my band either. And I love his drumming.
Yeah, guy's got problems. I sympathize with him having panic disorder as it is debilitating, but I don't think he's golfing with a full set of clubs if you get me. He said if he'd toured TCATS after Dave drumming on the album he would have become a drugged out mess and probably have ended up dead, which to me says he's got pretty big issues going on aside from the band. I hope things are better for him now but I don't think he was up for touring as much as the band needed to at that point.
You can’t judge Goldsmith’s drumming by these extremely poor quality demos. To make a fair judgement you’d have to hear his final takes in the studio after Gil Norton rode his ass for a while, but I’m guessing those recordings are long lost to the sands of time. Which is a shame, I’d LOVE to hear them.
Anyone else hear, on the last verse, "there goes my hero, the one that's on the left"?he lied it is about Kurt
shut the fuck up
how does "the one thats on the left" refers to kurt? just asking
Lucas Alves from Dave's position on stage Kurt was to his left from the bass player
Will Goldsmith is and excellent drummer, no question - Just listen to any Sunny Day Real Estate record. HOWEVER, I don't think he hits as hard CONSISTENTLY as Dave and I believe that it was precisely that point that made Dave think he could to it better.
That said, one comment below is also correct in that Dave's ego sometimes takes control a bit too much.
All of that aside, Taylor Hawkins is not nearly as good as EITHER Grohl or Goldsmith. I once heard Dave call Taylor "the best drummer you're going to hear for a long, long time..."
Hell, Tre Cool of Green Day makes Taylor sound like a child hitting a toy Sears kit... not sure what Dave's infatuation with Taylor is/was and I don't mean to knock Taylor TOO MUCH, he is a very good drummer, but for Dave to kind of screw Goldsmith that way and then act like Hawkins is one of the greatest drummers in the world was and is immature, stupid and silly.
Steve Shomo they are both great drummers but as far as the playing style needed for the foo fighters goes Taylor is way better
Steve Shomo and imo opinion the live videos with Taylor prove that
Dude, Taylor is pretty fucking good. Way more technical than Grohl, just doesn't show off as much.
are you crazy? taylor hawkins blows goldsmith and grohl out of the water.
Taylor is a great drummer but I've always thought his style doesn't fit the bands music. The Foo Fighters are a straight ahead rock band and Taylor's style is more in the vein of Neil Peart and Stewart Copeland. From a technical standpoint, Taylor is the best of the three but Dave and William's drumming suited the Foo Fighters music better.
its a shame will quit because he really was a better fit for the foo fighters than taylor ever was
smallclone I guess that depends which Foo Fighters era one prefers. I see Taylor's influence as a key factor to the sound the Foos developed from 2005 up to now.
That being said, I do prefer the early material and wish they had stayed making alternative music.
smallclone I don't know about that, man. I love William's playing. SDRE is one of my very favorite bands of all time. But Taylor Hawkins is a very good drummer and very good for the Foo Fighters. Too bad I don't really like the FFs (except for a couple of songs).
Based on what? Please elaborate....
Sorry but that's the dumbest shit I've ever read XD Please stop
Taylor is a perfect fit for the Foos
FF drummers: Dave Grohl > Taylor Hawkins > William Goldsmith.
good drummer ? duh ! but it's all about " the pocket " . and if you can " feel "the groove .you will find this has a dragging , slower vibe . that is simply pocket ! william just plays a little back from the groove . bad ? no!!! just not the proper ingredient for this "stew" . P.S. if you took the masters and brought the drum track forward [ as in time ] just a few milli seconds it would sound just fine .but ya just can't do that live . WELL ....YET ?!?!
Demo is actually better than the album
Completely agree. Except for Everlong.
lol
You are in a band to have fun, male music together for fun. You start taking it seriously you become egotistical and a solo artist with a backing band. He chose the later.
To be fair though they wanted to turn it into a proper career. If it was just for fun, just a bit of a laugh then sure don't have quality control or standards, but if you want to make it big you sort of have to care about it being as good as possible.
That being said I can't really hear anything wrong with the drumming. It's the songs themselves that don't grab me.
Yeah. Dave better.
If anything was poor in the Foo FIghters, it was the vocals.. should have kicked out the singer!! he was fuckin terrible.
Dave has a huge ego..
I never thought his personality fit Nirvana but his drumming did.
I could see Kurt not liking him outside music.
nice eraserhead pic
@@TimmyRamone thank you
And thanks for the video..
dave sold William out.
kurt warned us.
whatcha mean?
You are a idiot.