I just discovered you today and your videos are SUPER cool and interesting :). I'm just getting into the snake game myself and will be picking up my first male in a week or so and i've already started doing research into genetics and trying to figure out what kind of genetics i'm looking for in a female for later down the road :). Thanks so much for your awesome content!
@@LeviathanSnakes Thank you so much!! I've definitely really enjoyed being in the community so far and meeting some of the awesome people that I have :). The male i'm getting is a Pastel, Enchi, Orange Dream, Het Pied :).
I have bred ball.pythons for 12 years and I have hit a brick wall with them. Here in the UK you cant even give the majority of morphs away. Only sold 3 within 4 months this year and they were exported to Portugal and Holland! Sold my whole collection to another breeder at a price I cried over ! I'm sticking to breeding my true red tail boas, which leaves me with 8 snakes! Sold 43 boas over the last 2 months! Same thing happened 2 years ago with my bearded dragons and my BCI boas,put more into the projects than I got out of them.
Actual answer, I think it will be sustainable for as long as people want to buy a ball python as a pet. In our experience, the pet market exists and is massive. The way morphs make it to the pet price range is by breeders selling to other breeders until there is enough supply that the price falls below $500 and pretty much anyone who could want it as a pet can buy it. This is why Banana’s (which started out at like $50k) are still one of the best animals to breed for the pet market because so many people are willing to buy a Banana for $200 as their first snake. Banana’s never would have made it to $200 unless breeders sold to other breeders.
@@LeviathanSnakes The problem is people who are middle income are not buying the high end ball pythons. They are buying pets, not investments, I bought my pastel for 50 dollars picked up locally. I can buy cheaper price for the snake but have to pay shipping. BP's are going for as little as 20 dollars. You(general you) are not going to make money on snakes that your breeders cost thousands, and your selling "pets" for 200 dollars, and it is going to get worse as the economy crashes. A better investment is snakes with lower maintenance cost that bring a fair price, which at the moment is hognose snakes. One can get a pair of morph hognose for under 500 dollars, spend less on food, and sell the babies for 200 to 400 each. If I was not dying I would catch a couple black rat snakes for free, sell the babies for 50 bucks, and only have to feed them in the warm months. For the most part BP's need to eat year round. Plus they can be fed eggs, chicken hearts/livers/gizzards, and even fish which also can be caught for free in the pond. As the economy tanks so will the BP market as breeders go broke.
@@walkingwolf8072 respectfully, I disagree with you. There is a pet market, but that market isn’t what gives a small reptile breeder the chance to have a successful business. In order to make a full time living breeding $50 snakes, you would have to breed and sell 1000 of them a year ($50k a year is actually a little less than the national average income but it makes numbers easy for this example). Selling those 1000 snakes for $50 each, doesn’t factor in the cost of enclosures, food (which would likely be around $5k/month to feed that many), the space required to fit all the enclosures in a building, and the time needed to care for all of them. Needless to say, it is literally impossible to have successful, full time reptile business breeding only $50 snakes. In addition, there isn’t actually a strong market for these animals either as the only people who really want them are those who are getting their first snake. It requires a business that is amazing at marketing to people outside of the reptile hobby in order to even have a chance of selling them because people who are in the hobby do not want to buy a $50 snake. Our fastest selling snakes have been the ones priced between $1k-$5k and from pretty much everyone we know in the hobby, they say the same thing. There is a huge market for these animals and that market is easy to find online (breeders are often really active on social media or MorphMarket). This market did not go away after the 08-09 recession, so I don’t think it is going to go away now.
@@LeviathanSnakes That is why the BP market is crashing faster than JB's cognitive decline. BP's selling for 20 dollars online, minus the shipping. At one time UG had baby BP's for less than $20. I have seen snakes over $200 sit in enclosures in the pet store, the moment a snake comes in under 200 it is gone almost immediately. What you really mean is people in the hobby that are either rich, YT celebrities making YT bucks, or desperate newbie breeders who think they can get rich by playing the ponzi scheme. There have been several financial schemers who have gone to prison for doing exactly what some BP breeders are doing, it is unethical to suck people into pie in the sky schemes. Not to mention that any scandal could be the push to outlaw pythons totally, and many other exotic snakes. One state has had a ban on snakes for decades that could land a person in prison for three years.
@@walkingwolf8072 I appreciate your level-headed reply but I believe that your points are conjecture and not actually reflective of what has happened or is happening in the ball python market. From personal experience, the lowest priced snakes take the longest to sell and the highest priced are the most in demand. The people buying the high end are other breeders who sell to smaller breeders until the supply makes the animals affordable for those only looking for a pet and the hobby has proven itself to be able to sustain this model for over 20 years. The only true way that I could see it collapse is if legislation outlawed breeding/owning reptiles at a national level. I don’t think a slow economy is going to be the nail in the coffin as 08-09 recession didn’t end the hobby before this. Again, thank you for your awesome replies but I think we will need to agree to disagree.
I’m planning to start breeding ball phythons with my girlfriend we both love them. I purchase a Batman male few months ago and planning on getting a sunset poss yellow belly male also. Later on when I get them in size planing on getting a adult proven female. Any advice if I should get something different or should I go ahead purchase a sunset and later on get a proven female thinking something with clown in her. Any advice welcome
Personally I would get the females first but sunset yb is an amazing male! With the slower market, now is definitely a good time to make some investments
@@LeviathanSnakes the breeder said he would throw in a female 66% yellow belly poss her sunset came in the same clutch l. Dad is a yellowbelly het sunsetMother a het sunset.
Great video. 💪🏻 market will bounce back but for now it’s very saturated. And due to the business being a pyramid scheme (not including pet market) as the bottom freezes it travels up.
Great video as always steven! The market is definitely changing but I also think it’s coming back down to a normal state as well. This will in my opinion weed out for a lack of better words the weaker links. But I do believe we will see another surge again in a few years once the economy levels out and more people decide to join in on the adventure
Completely agree Jeremy, people are still buying snakes but now more than ever it is so important to put the work into marketing a business/animals and not to expect that the animals will “sell themselves”
@@LeviathanSnakes 💯 the show I did this weekend I had 3 snakes picked out I thought for sure would sell. Those 3 were also ones I brought home lol. A BEL a ghi lesser and an emoji pied. Granted the pied sold that night to one of the people that purchased one of the other snakes that day but still lol. You never know what’s going to move so it’s always important to work with what you like and like you said focus on the marketing.
Great advice. I’ve been keeping bp as pets for a few years and just the last few months have been purchasing for breeding. Very informative and interesting. Thanks!
What’s up. My name is also Steven. I have to be honest the market right now is really bad. I’ve never had trouble selling my snakes. Granted I’m a smaller breeder. Last year I sold all my acids within hours of posting to MM. not this year. Thanks sleepy joe.
Yes! #TeamSteven! We had a similar experience last season where animals where selling as soon as we posted them to MorphMarket but I think that was a bit of an anomaly and it was an especially hot market rather than a normal market. Thank you so much for watching and for commenting btw!
Love the snake room setup! Im just getting into GTP breeding, I agree that the ball python market does seem extremely over saturated at the moment. Best of luck in your upcoming seasons! Awesome quality video on an interesting topic.
Lol, you described me to a perfect T. I started a few months before covid hit and as of now I’m spending 5+k per ball python trying to work more with the higher end stuff. My first big purchase was a gravel Mojave Het monsoon female for 5k from mr Wagner. 😂
Brock is amazing and that is an incredible pickup! Huge congrats!! We did the same thing and are now way more conscious of the what exactly we are buying since space is limited.
Pretty much nail on the head, the only thing I would add is to the newer covid breeders who are saying they aren't making sales and feel the market is oversaturated, the over saturation is in low end, if they want to make animals that sell them they need to buy higher end animals that aren't in abundance, also break into the multi recessives. There is a market correction for sure, but animals still sell. Another thought is everyone wants to hurry up and sell out, and that's just not how it works, you spend all year breeding you will also spend all year selling. You will have 2022 stock till the end of 2023 in many cases and that's ok. The big dogs know this and live it.
Yes 100000%! Love your point on just because it doesn’t sell fast, doesn’t mean it’s bad. In fact, if it sells too fast, it might be a sign that the animal was underpriced. Thank you for watching and for always leaving comments friend!
Great video, and I agree 100% about double hets and genetic testing.. Recently picked up a DH sunset pied for 250 lol. I'm putting him to pied, vpi, and lavender girls and crossing my fingers I can test for sunset in the next year or so and have some pied hets and triple hets growing up.
That is an INSANE deal! You are gonna kill! We have been saving all the sheds for all our sunsets and het sunsets so we can send them in and help RGI develop a sunset test. Can’t wait for it!
been keeping ball pythons 12 years and breeding for 2. I kept them soley as pets so had many single genes and lots of males that i thought looked cool then when switched to a more business orientated side of it and invested money, had the painful experience that i need to get alot more females and make sure they are all more than ready to have the clutches i needed from them. I will say the quality of great animals will always outshine a good/ok animal. Spend the good money first create the holdbacks and the visuals and stay humble you will see rewards..
Great video and I completely agree! Now with the genetic testing it’s definitely going to change the game up and make projects move a little faster for sure.
Thank you so much for the kind words and thank you for taking the time to watch! We just got our first results back from RGI and it definitely helped us change our plans! Stoked for it!
Man that fly made that video so entertaining !!! :D Great content though.
Glad you enjoyed it! And yes, that flying buzzing all over the place!
I just discovered you today and your videos are SUPER cool and interesting :). I'm just getting into the snake game myself and will be picking up my first male in a week or so and i've already started doing research into genetics and trying to figure out what kind of genetics i'm looking for in a female for later down the road :).
Thanks so much for your awesome content!
Thank you so much and welcome to the hobby!! It is super fun and the community is amazing! What is the male that you are planning on getting?
@@LeviathanSnakes Thank you so much!! I've definitely really enjoyed being in the community so far and meeting some of the awesome people that I have :).
The male i'm getting is a Pastel, Enchi, Orange Dream, Het Pied :).
I have bred ball.pythons for 12 years and I have hit a brick wall with them. Here in the UK you cant even give the majority of morphs away. Only sold 3 within 4 months this year and they were exported to Portugal and Holland! Sold my whole collection to another breeder at a price I cried over ! I'm sticking to breeding my true red tail boas, which leaves me with 8 snakes! Sold 43 boas over the last 2 months! Same thing happened 2 years ago with my bearded dragons and my BCI boas,put more into the projects than I got out of them.
I have been growing mine for years also and should start producing end of 2023/beginning of 2024🥰💯 I agree with all of this!
I half half clutches coming soon as long as my boys were fertile we're waiting to see now! Hoping for good holdbacks!
Breeders selling to breeders, how long is that sustainable?
Actual answer, I think it will be sustainable for as long as people want to buy a ball python as a pet. In our experience, the pet market exists and is massive. The way morphs make it to the pet price range is by breeders selling to other breeders until there is enough supply that the price falls below $500 and pretty much anyone who could want it as a pet can buy it. This is why Banana’s (which started out at like $50k) are still one of the best animals to breed for the pet market because so many people are willing to buy a Banana for $200 as their first snake. Banana’s never would have made it to $200 unless breeders sold to other breeders.
@@LeviathanSnakes The problem is people who are middle income are not buying the high end ball pythons. They are buying pets, not investments, I bought my pastel for 50 dollars picked up locally. I can buy cheaper price for the snake but have to pay shipping. BP's are going for as little as 20 dollars. You(general you) are not going to make money on snakes that your breeders cost thousands, and your selling "pets" for 200 dollars, and it is going to get worse as the economy crashes. A better investment is snakes with lower maintenance cost that bring a fair price, which at the moment is hognose snakes. One can get a pair of morph hognose for under 500 dollars, spend less on food, and sell the babies for 200 to 400 each. If I was not dying I would catch a couple black rat snakes for free, sell the babies for 50 bucks, and only have to feed them in the warm months. For the most part BP's need to eat year round. Plus they can be fed eggs, chicken hearts/livers/gizzards, and even fish which also can be caught for free in the pond. As the economy tanks so will the BP market as breeders go broke.
@@walkingwolf8072 respectfully, I disagree with you. There is a pet market, but that market isn’t what gives a small reptile breeder the chance to have a successful business.
In order to make a full time living breeding $50 snakes, you would have to breed and sell 1000 of them a year ($50k a year is actually a little less than the national average income but it makes numbers easy for this example). Selling those 1000 snakes for $50 each, doesn’t factor in the cost of enclosures, food (which would likely be around $5k/month to feed that many), the space required to fit all the enclosures in a building, and the time needed to care for all of them. Needless to say, it is literally impossible to have successful, full time reptile business breeding only $50 snakes. In addition, there isn’t actually a strong market for these animals either as the only people who really want them are those who are getting their first snake. It requires a business that is amazing at marketing to people outside of the reptile hobby in order to even have a chance of selling them because people who are in the hobby do not want to buy a $50 snake.
Our fastest selling snakes have been the ones priced between $1k-$5k and from pretty much everyone we know in the hobby, they say the same thing. There is a huge market for these animals and that market is easy to find online (breeders are often really active on social media or MorphMarket). This market did not go away after the 08-09 recession, so I don’t think it is going to go away now.
@@LeviathanSnakes That is why the BP market is crashing faster than JB's cognitive decline. BP's selling for 20 dollars online, minus the shipping. At one time UG had baby BP's for less than $20. I have seen snakes over $200 sit in enclosures in the pet store, the moment a snake comes in under 200 it is gone almost immediately. What you really mean is people in the hobby that are either rich, YT celebrities making YT bucks, or desperate newbie breeders who think they can get rich by playing the ponzi scheme. There have been several financial schemers who have gone to prison for doing exactly what some BP breeders are doing, it is unethical to suck people into pie in the sky schemes. Not to mention that any scandal could be the push to outlaw pythons totally, and many other exotic snakes. One state has had a ban on snakes for decades that could land a person in prison for three years.
@@walkingwolf8072 I appreciate your level-headed reply but I believe that your points are conjecture and not actually reflective of what has happened or is happening in the ball python market. From personal experience, the lowest priced snakes take the longest to sell and the highest priced are the most in demand. The people buying the high end are other breeders who sell to smaller breeders until the supply makes the animals affordable for those only looking for a pet and the hobby has proven itself to be able to sustain this model for over 20 years. The only true way that I could see it collapse is if legislation outlawed breeding/owning reptiles at a national level. I don’t think a slow economy is going to be the nail in the coffin as 08-09 recession didn’t end the hobby before this. Again, thank you for your awesome replies but I think we will need to agree to disagree.
That snake u got is a good boi.
He is so sweet! He is definitely my favorite!
Excellent video for newbies, myself included. Thank you.
Thank you so much and we are super happy you enjoyed it!
Great video Steven. keep up the great work!
Thank you so much, man! I had a ton of fun recording it!
I’m planning to start breeding ball phythons with my girlfriend we both love them. I purchase a Batman male few months ago and planning on getting a sunset poss yellow belly male also. Later on when I get them in size planing on getting a adult proven female. Any advice if I should get something different or should I go ahead purchase a sunset and later on get a proven female thinking something with clown in her. Any advice welcome
Personally I would get the females first but sunset yb is an amazing male! With the slower market, now is definitely a good time to make some investments
@@LeviathanSnakes the breeder said he would throw in a female 66% yellow belly poss her sunset came in the same clutch l. Dad is a yellowbelly het sunsetMother a het sunset.
Ausome video brother, 🎉 sunsets are gorgeous, I’m hoping to hit on one this yr 🤞🤞🍀🍀
Yes!! You had said in Adam’s live that your girl is ovulating right now right?
Great video
Thank you friends! Also that Mojave DG Clown you hatched out is amazing! Huge congrats!
@@LeviathanSnakes thank you
Great and informative video 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Thank you Patrick! You are the man!
Great information. Thank you for sharing.
Such an awesome video. Love your wisdom 💯
Lots of great information!
Opportunities abound, take advantage at whatever level you can.
Couldn’t agree more! Keep crushing it friend!
Great prospective on how the market is working at this Time. 🤟🤟
Thank you friend and thank you for watching! Stoked with how this video turned out!
Really great video, some great information. Congratulations on your business.
A lot of great information thank you for all the work you do
Thank you so much and thank you for watching!! Really appreciate your support!
Good video with a lot of information!
Where do you go for the genetic testing!?!?!?
They have it on MorphMarket! We just got the results back from the first test we submitted!
Double visual ultramel pied available. Love the concept and the great breakdown of the changing market.
Great video. 💪🏻 market will bounce back but for now it’s very saturated. And due to the business being a pyramid scheme (not including pet market) as the bottom freezes it travels up.
Great video as always steven! The market is definitely changing but I also think it’s coming back down to a normal state as well. This will in my opinion weed out for a lack of better words the weaker links. But I do believe we will see another surge again in a few years once the economy levels out and more people decide to join in on the adventure
Completely agree Jeremy, people are still buying snakes but now more than ever it is so important to put the work into marketing a business/animals and not to expect that the animals will “sell themselves”
@@LeviathanSnakes 💯 the show I did this weekend I had 3 snakes picked out I thought for sure would sell. Those 3 were also ones I brought home lol. A BEL a ghi lesser and an emoji pied. Granted the pied sold that night to one of the people that purchased one of the other snakes that day but still lol. You never know what’s going to move so it’s always important to work with what you like and like you said focus on the marketing.
Great advice. I’ve been keeping bp as pets for a few years and just the last few months have been purchasing for breeding. Very informative and interesting. Thanks!
Thank you so much and thank you for watching! Hope you crush it during your first season btw!
Awesome video guys! Great info, definitely going to take advantage of opportunities in the slower market
Thank you so much friend, and yes!! There are some awesome deals out there right now!!
Btw I love your snake room. Looks like a lot of fun to be in that room cleaning and working with the snakes.
Thank you so much!! We really like it too and we really appreciate your comments btw!
What’s up. My name is also Steven. I have to be honest the market right now is really bad. I’ve never had trouble selling my snakes. Granted I’m a smaller breeder. Last year I sold all my acids within hours of posting to MM. not this year. Thanks sleepy joe.
Yes! #TeamSteven!
We had a similar experience last season where animals where selling as soon as we posted them to MorphMarket but I think that was a bit of an anomaly and it was an especially hot market rather than a normal market. Thank you so much for watching and for commenting btw!
Love the snake room setup! Im just getting into GTP breeding, I agree that the ball python market does seem extremely over saturated at the moment. Best of luck in your upcoming seasons! Awesome quality video on an interesting topic.
Thank you so much for the kind words and that is awesome!! GTP looks absolutely amazing!
Lol, you described me to a perfect T. I started a few months before covid hit and as of now I’m spending 5+k per ball python trying to work more with the higher end stuff. My first big purchase was a gravel Mojave Het monsoon female for 5k from mr Wagner. 😂
Brock is amazing and that is an incredible pickup! Huge congrats!! We did the same thing and are now way more conscious of the what exactly we are buying since space is limited.
Pretty much nail on the head, the only thing I would add is to the newer covid breeders who are saying they aren't making sales and feel the market is oversaturated, the over saturation is in low end, if they want to make animals that sell them they need to buy higher end animals that aren't in abundance, also break into the multi recessives. There is a market correction for sure, but animals still sell.
Another thought is everyone wants to hurry up and sell out, and that's just not how it works, you spend all year breeding you will also spend all year selling. You will have 2022 stock till the end of 2023 in many cases and that's ok. The big dogs know this and live it.
Yes 100000%! Love your point on just because it doesn’t sell fast, doesn’t mean it’s bad. In fact, if it sells too fast, it might be a sign that the animal was underpriced. Thank you for watching and for always leaving comments friend!
Great video, and I agree 100% about double hets and genetic testing.. Recently picked up a DH sunset pied for 250 lol. I'm putting him to pied, vpi, and lavender girls and crossing my fingers I can test for sunset in the next year or so and have some pied hets and triple hets growing up.
That is an INSANE deal! You are gonna kill! We have been saving all the sheds for all our sunsets and het sunsets so we can send them in and help RGI develop a sunset test. Can’t wait for it!
been keeping ball pythons 12 years and breeding for 2. I kept them soley as pets so had many single genes and lots of males that i thought looked cool then when switched to a more business orientated side of it and invested money, had the painful experience that i need to get alot more females and make sure they are all more than ready to have the clutches i needed from them. I will say the quality of great animals will always outshine a good/ok animal. Spend the good money first create the holdbacks and the visuals and stay humble you will see rewards..
Great video and I completely agree! Now with the genetic testing it’s definitely going to change the game up and make projects move a little faster for sure.
Thank you so much for the kind words and thank you for taking the time to watch! We just got our first results back from RGI and it definitely helped us change our plans! Stoked for it!
Very astute insights on the market! Genetic testing is indeed going to change how we have been doing things 🙂
Thank you, friend! Genetic testing is awesome and we are stoked for how it will change things!
Who can’t sell their ball pythons?
The market is definitely a bit saturated but also people are lacking disposable income due to high gas and food prices
Wow it's already been a year since I started watching you guys. Looking forward to seeing you on proper royals 🫰
It is wild! Time has gone by so fast! Also can’t wait and am definitely looking forward to Adam’s show!