Why the Airbus A220 might END the A320!
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- Опубликовано: 20 май 2023
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Will the Airbus A220, the old Bombardier C-series spell the end of the Airbus A320?
In this video I will look at the strange relationship between this new addition to the Airbus family and its real cash-cow, the A320NEO.
I hope you will enjoy the video, leave a like and a comment if you do!
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode.
Sources
• In the Making: First #...
• Welcoming the A220-300
• Meet the Airbus A220-3...
• JetBlue Introduces Its...
• JetBlue A220 300 Timel...
• #A220 Family, purpose ...
• A220 Purpose-Built for...
• Look What’s NEO at Jet...
• JetBlue takes delivery...
• L’A220 vu du ciel
• Sneak peek of Airbus' ...
• Bombardier's CSeries a...
• Bombardier CS100 maide...
• Airbus A220 final asse...
leehamnews.com/2023/03/21/pon...
leehamnews.com/2021/09/28/air...
leehamnews.com/2022/05/23/pon...
theaircurrent.com/industry-st... 
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"Bombardier intended to compete with Airbus not join them" gives me "you were supposed to destroy the Sith not join them!" vibes
Imagine if Boeing hadn’t gone messing with Bombardier, they wouldn’t have drained resources, dumped lines, and flipped off Boeing on the way out.
And I wonder what might have happened if the C series was designed as a 6 abreast plane instead of 5 across and gone head to head with Boeing and Air Bus
@@ronparrish6666 itll be called A220XMB (extra medium body) 😂
Airbus played a serious 4D chess game that ended up with them getting an entirely new plane for free.
This is like defeating your enemy, without making they realized they have been defeated. -Sun Tzu, art of aircraft war-
I flew an Air France A220 last year and I have to say it was the most comfortable and quiet narrow body aircraft I’ve ever been in - I certainly hope it will become more popular with European carriers
Flew AF and Swiss a220-300. As a fellow Swiss and french hater, i'm objective when saying that Swiss is better.
I hope the e2s end up selling more. The middle seats make a difference.
@@JohanRfrlhs You shoud fly on SU-95, that's closer to your level.
As a kid I used to get excited about going on certain planes like the 757 with RB211 engines and the DC-10. The A220 is the first commercial plane in a long time that makes me feel the same.
I really liked the 757, a worthy follower to the 727 and not a horrible 747 replacement for some US long haul routes. The A220 must be really nice!
I was involved in the early development of the CSeries. We had designed the fuselage and systems to support the "stuffed barrel" assembly process. I wasn't on the program when it went into serial production, so I have no idea why the assembly process changed.
Also, as for line rate: the Mirabel facility used to produce 40+ CRJ back in the day, with a smaller factory!
Honestly, having a A220 as their main narrowbody jets and a XLR version of the A320 will seem pretty decent.
That is what you are posting in response to a video that explained why it would be bad for Airbus. At length. And very clearly.
@Chris too bad Bombardier didn't get to see the benefit of their work
Breeze Airways has long waited for their customized ETOPS "A220-300LR", which would cross the Atlantic ocean from the US east coast and reach deep into Europe.
One of the major factors of A220 incursion into A320 sales is ETOPS. The A320 has steadily gotten more ETOPS range (like trans-Atlantic) as confidence has built, and obviously, it's got more range anyway. Can an A220 do the same mission (range-payload) as an A320? If the answer is no, then there is still a market for the A320, which is also less expensive than the A321. Let us not forget unit costs too.
Agreed 👍🏾
As a passenger I will say that the A220 is probably my favorite narrowbody to fly on. I flew JetBlue from Boston to Orlando and back very frequently in college and I preferred the A220 to the 320. 5 abreast is nice because if you book early you can end up picking a seat on the left side of the aisle where there’s no middle seat.
5 abreast was the seating for all MD (DC) 9 series and what did it get them in today's market? What you're favorite aircraft might be is the farthest thing from the bean counter pencil. And, for that matter Airbus or Boeing's.
I hope the A220 takes advantage of the 5 seats, because the MD-80 sure didn't. What a totally crappy plane in every way. It was fun on takeoff, though, a real hot rod, if you could survive the noise and ear pain (much worse on descent, like your eardrums were gonna burst). The 737s I was flying on at that time were fast too, compared to the 727. But the 727 was classic Boeing comfort and room, before SW showed bean counters how many seats you could cram into their cattlecars.
@@LemonLadyRecords No idea what you’re talking about. That was a great plane except for the last few rows (and I actually get a kick of sitting back there).
@@LemonLadyRecords I used to love the MD-80s except for if I had to sit in the very back and couldn't see out my window. They were solid little planes and if you were flying with one other person (or 3 other people) you could sit alone. I kind of miss them. At the end there were more with cabin pressurization problems.
I'm trying to book a seat on one just to fly on it but so far unsuccessful.
This information has absolutely no value for my professional and personal life, but it is pure joy to listen to someone who knows what there talking about and has the passion and energy as Mentour has! Thank you, sir!
I LOVE Mentour Pilot, the material you deliver is FIRST CLASS, in such an articulate way that enables us to understand everything aircraft related. THANK YOU MENTOUR!!!!
NEVER STOP delivering ✈️ ✈️✈️✈️.
Yes, he's totally in command of his subject, and his enthusiasm for the aircraft and the industry that designs and makes these amazing machines is infectious.
Glad to see Airbus trying not to stick to one narrowbody design for too long. The A320 design may become too limiting in the future like the B737 and it's nice to not put all eggs in one basket.
'not put all the eggs in one basket' is a good way of saying it
Boeing out here catching strays 😂😂
Six to seven years waiting time for new A320neo may have something to do with A220 success.
Our local carrier switched order from A320s to A220s with Airbus recomendations.
In 1988 the Boeing narrow body aircraft consisted of the 707, 727, 737, 757. That was the same year that Airbus introduced their narrow-body aircraft that's been around for 36 years
@@averagejoe9249 In 1988 truck manufacturing companies had 6 or 7 models, now same things are done with 3 models and few subvariants.
Militarys (infantry) had 5 or 6 long guns, now all have 3, main battle rifle (M4, Tavor...), GPMG and designatated marksman rifle.
Now parts comonality is much more important when there are so many aircraft around, they say that at least 25% of parts are carried over from gen to gen of aircraft, in those times on those Boeing 4 models parts commonality was quite bad. They had different cockpits made by different subcontractors in same production year, incredible.
Airbus definitely needs an engine option for the A220 given P&W's persistent technical and supply chain challenges. Airlines that bet heavily on the A220, like airBaltic, are having to lease in capacity because much of their fleet is waiting for engine maintenance items.
Indeed.
When A220 showed up in my SAS booking last year (I think they wet-leased them), I thought this was a typo. Never heard of this plane before and thought how on earth could an airline misspell their plane type 😂 Well, I really liked it.
Indeed it must have been a very pleasant surprise.
It must have been an Air-Baltic-Aircraft.
@@NicolaW72 yeah, I think that was it.
@@NicolaW72 yep, SAS wetleases alot of planes during the summer both from airbaltic and smartlynx
@@karlp8484 It is a Canadian plane, that's why.
I don't like flying that much cause I get headaches or ear pain quite often, but this summer I flew the A220 with AirBaltic and it was the most relaxing flight I ever had. It's quiet, spacious, comfortable and quick. I didn't even notice how quickly we flew across Europe. We also we're landing in a big thunderstorm and it was a breeze. I would be ready to pay a little bit more for plane tickets if I knew I would be getting the A220 instead of for example the A320.
Pilot Groups need to see it this way because right now the pay rates treat it as a regional jet as well.
Lol Bombardier sure knocked out a banger of a plane.
I flew on one of JetBlue's A220-300s a couple of weeks ago (Blue Ya Gonna Call) on a BOS/PHX flight. It was pretty great, even in coach. Happy passenger tbh.
I'm in training at JetBlue on the 220. Couldn't be happier. I appreciate your video.
One thing to consider in JetBlue’s situation though is that they are in the process of acquiring Spirit Airlines, which has many A320s with many A320 Neos on order. So that would also eliminate our need to have any A320s on order !
Justice Dep't and several states are suing to prevent this acquisition. I suspect this won't happen.
Your video does a good job of pointing out the reasons why the Duopoly of Airbus and Boeing is nearly impossible for competitors to make ground against.
Exactly!! No ways Bombardier could have cracked the duopoly.
It could not have the manufacturing economy of scale enjoyed by Airbus/Boeing. Nor the negociating power with suppliers.
It appears that Bombardier has always built great airliners and still builds great business jets. The sticky part was always building them efficiently.
Hopefully Mirabel can sort things out so we Canadians can get some return on all the taxpayer money poured into the company over the years.
Bombardier engineers designed and amazing plane but Bombardier management didn't think straight when it came to marketing. Bombardier sold those planes to Delta Airlines 20% of it's value 80% of the cost was paid by Canadian tax payers. Today Airbus owns 75% and Canadian Government owns 25% of A220 model. Bombardier owns 0% today.
Indeed.
@@kazgoz2529 Quebec pension plan owns 20%
The bombardier managers knew they could just get government billions every year so they didn’t have to be competent.
It’s great for Canadians that gave it all away to Airbus because they won’t be coming with their handouts every year. Now, the Europeans can continue to pay bill for all of Airbus shortfalls.😊
Canadians didn’t put any money into the c-series. 0$. The 390$ subsidy in 2015 went not to the c-séries but to the Global express program based in Downsview Ontario…
I have no connection to the airline industry aside from occasionally booking a trip from A to B but for some reason I find these videos fascinating.
That is how I started myself during COVID. Learned so much I can practically think in protocols when I am on board of one.
The A220 is fuel efficient & quiet because of the PW1500G geared turbofan. This also caused a lot of the delays when Bombardier was developing it. I can see why it would be difficult to get a different engine. I've flown on an A220 a couple times, and it's so quiet during takeoff, presumably because the fan isn't supersonic. The pilots said they enjoyed flying them too.
Not many fans are supersonic, I believe. I doubt it's the reason for the quieter run.
Given that the Canadian taxpayer financed the majority of this complicated engine to maximize the fuel efficiency of the A220, it is obvious that it sells for a competitive price now.
Haven't there been some problems with this engine in some carrier's A220 fleets?
@@gteixeira I think the Quebec government still has a 25% stake in the A220. If the government does finance or bale out corporations, it's appropriate for it to profit from it beyond taxes.
@@nathanbanks2354 Or maybe just an exchange of favors between elected government and campaign financers.
As an aircraft engineer, I really appreciate your videos updating me with current news about the aviation industry. I love the A320 family, and I also love the A220. But I never would have thought the A220 would be a problem to Airbus. I'm learning new things everyday. Keep up the good work! Looking fwd for your next video! 😊
Great to hear you are enjoying the channel!
What aircraft have you worked on last?
And you claim to be an aircraft "engineer"... you mean maintenance tech... Every actual aerospace engineer has been perfectly aware of what the a220 means to the a320/737 for a decade now.
@@w8stral not every aerospace engineer is working on airliners and not everyone working at airbus or boeing keeps up on what happens in the market at all times...
@@johannesgutsmiedl366 Weeeelll in my experience your statement is pretty much NOT true.
The A220 is a fantastic aircraft but the engines are troublesome. A lot of A220 are grounded waiting for maintenance because the GTF is not reliable yet
I was wondering about that too. Also lots of the newest Embraers are grounded because of the same engineproblems. First I heard that is it because they didn't provide the thrust that was needed for the takeoff weight, but then I read somewhere that the geared fans don't work as they are supposed to, sometimes stopping totally when they are not supposed to.
Well current so called "problem" is purely cosmetic, but expecting there to NOT be teething issues on a GTF is rather naive
GTFs are a new thing and there will be problems before everything is sorted, same way rolls Royce had Trent 700 issues on the 787 and now we don't hear anything of the sort, it is true that GTFs are more efficient due to the working principle behind it. The core is more efficient at higher speeds and compression ratios while the fan is more efficient at subsonic speeds hence why the gearbox was developed, the CFM leap engines on the max and neo are efficient due to the number of compression stages that were added to them meaning the fuel is properly burned before exit and also creates more thrust before exit too thus for the same amount of fuel you travel further than you did before
Indeed - and that´s another major problem with the A 220 for Airbus today.
@@NicolaW72 But Airbus offers an alternative for the P&E-engines, while Embraer doesn't. They have the major problems, Airbus could 'simply' replace the engines on the 220's, and get the plane recertified again.
Flew on an Air Canada A220 last summer and was blown away by just how quiet it was. Cabin was cavernous and did not at all feel cramped. I’m really excited to hopefully fly one again in a month!
Loving the new longer vids! Great detail in this and I have little knowledge about aircraft mfg or marketing, but was glued. Now I have more knowledge, ty! 😊
The production lines for the A320neos are completely at max capacity, and for still a few years of orders. Airbus probably doesn't care about the A319 and A320 (the A318 is already dead), because they receive massive orders for the A321 variants. In a few years they could endup with most of orders being A321s and A220-300s, with the A320 and A220-100 being only ordered for specific things or for fleet compatibility, and that would be perfectly fine for them. As always for Airbus, they have the good designs, they have the orders, it will all come down to production nad how they will be able to deliver; but the ordering backlog will stay full for years to come.
On the other hand, this is grim for Boeing; they have no argument for the 737max, which on the small side (-7 and -8) is less efficient than the A220 and on the large side (-9 and -10) is not as capable as an A321 XLR. The only reason they sale is legacy compatibility and the stupidly long waiting times to get a new Airbus (and the US department of commerce cheaty tactics ?). Having no technical advantage on that size of aircraft, they just have to hope that Airbus doesn't find a way to deliver 1000 aircrafts a year.
It's a small problem for Airbus in the end, and moreover a problem that can become a strength in the future. They have all the cards in hand, and if they don't mess up they could really hurt Boeing in the long run, an aviation company with apparently no one working on a new aircraft that size (!)
In a nutshell : Airbus needs more factories (and more efficiency apparently too)
@@Spido68_the_spectator In a further nutshell: Airbus needs more factories to finish off its competitor, who are dead in the water. It's not exactly a bad problem for any company to have.
@@kenoliver8913 Bad for us, consumers
I love these new modern airliners. Ive always loved aviation to begin with, and If i ever get the chance, id honestly become a pilot just to fly one of these beauties!
Cheers Petter for producing such wonderful content and getting me passionate about aviation once more!
As a Canadian I was so pissed to hear bombardier give up and sell the design to airbus, they could've made billions if it hadn't been for sanctions on planes from Canada
They didn't give up, they got outplayed, badly. They went swimming with sharks and got bit.
You only have to look at how Airbus has struggled to become the giant it is today to understand that Bombardier wouldn't stand a chance.
Government handouts ruined the C series. You should be happy that it’s gone, and the European taxpayers must prop it up via airbus now 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉.
Both companies are subsidy whores but Airbus just has such a larger market share.
Fascinating content. Thank you for telling this interesting ongoing story!
Just flew as a passenger as on an A220-300 on Air Canada (C-GVUO) for a 4.5h flight and it was spectacular. Great ride!
I think the choice between A220 and A320 is also determined by the delivery time. For an airline, the delay between the purchase and delivery of an A320 is now several years... It's faster for an A220. And for A321 XLR, i even can't imagine how long you have to wait.
Always fascinating and informative. Thanks.
Would love to see more A220s coming off the lines in the future 💯💯💯💯
I flew AirBaltic A220 into Stockholm a couple of weeks ago. Good leg room, Nice flight. Loved the little flight indicator screens over head.
Flew on this recently and it was really good:
1. Real USB-C PD chargers (not the fake ones that just dump 5V3A) up to 60W that you can charge laptops and phones with, on every seat, even in ultra economy.
2. Super clever overhead luggage bin design, the entire bin rotates down to open, so that when they are closed by rotating up, they leave a lot more room in the cabin to help it feel less claustrophobic (unfortunately it appears these might be going away in favor of 'moar space')
3. Less grating engine noise even when sitting right next to them - not quieter, but more like white noise which is good
4. Fancy gamer lights
I had the pleasure of taking one of these across Canada, and it's my new favourite airliner.
Recently took an A220-300 to Paris and back, couldn't resist the temptation to tap the skin of the plane with my finger, just to see what an aluminium-lithium alloy felt like! Beautiful sleek plane only 9 months old according to the registry, has reawakened my inner aviation geek.
The new 500 variant of the 220 is a great opportunity for Airbus to use their engineering prowess to rejig the assembly operations and implement much needed efficiencies in building 220s.
Biggest problem with a -500 is that P&W has an exclusive contract to supply all engines for the C series and they don't have an engine large enough for a -500. So Airbus would have to renegotiate that deal. Plus lots of money to certify a new engine for the airframe. But I believe we will eventually see the A220-500 announced. I imagine Airbus will shop the idea around in Paris.
@@clarkpj1GTF advance would be sufficient
@@KingofInterns I understand that the P&W GTF Advantage should complete FAR33 certification next year. With up to 34,000 lbs of takeoff thrust it will be certified for the A320neo but I'm not certain if that would be sufficient thrust for the -500 since I can't seem to find much preliminary design info about what that model might weigh.
@@clarkpj1 GTF advance boasts 5% thrust increase vs original GTF while 500 is just a stretch of 300.
It should be possible to optimise the A220 design a bit plus these engines and viable. Plus advance boasts 1% improvement in fuel burn so no big sacrifice to range
@@KingofInterns I hope the Advantage engines will work in order to ensure development of the -500 at a price point the airlines can afford. But like Mentour alluded to, probably going to cut into A320neo sales. The while situation is bad news for Boeing.
Petter/Mentour,
Thank you for this analysis and your expertise.
Paul (in MA USA)
Super interesting content. And we’ll explained. Thank you for this!
Regardless of what the A220 is costing to produce now...they are still miles ahead considering that they didn't spend a penny of the billions of dollars it cost to develop the aircraft. I agree that the A220 will eventually replace everything smaller than the A321, even if it doesn't happen soon.
There is at least 5 years of A320 production in the backlog and even then, the A321 is becoming their most popular legacy single aisle aircraft so factory space will not go to waste.
The A220-500 will be the final nail in the coffin for the A320, but its advantages over anything Boeing has, makes the transition very worthwhile.
As a ramp worker with 20 years of working experience at an international airport i have plenty of experience with both aircraft. They are both really good to work on even if the A220 has a few odd elements to it but nothing too big. But one big drawback of the A220 vs the A320 is cargo hold space, especially the roof hight of the hold. It can already be an issue to get bulky items into a A320 hold, say like an Electrict wheelchair. It would be impossible to fit that same type of item into the hold of a A220. So i do feel there is room for both types. Secondly ULD versions would not be possible on the A220.
Airbus harming the A320 with the A220 is akin to Apple choosing to be the one to kill their iPod line with the iPhone : better to be the one pivoting the market from mp3 player to smartphone than the one with a dying iPod line and no replacement. A lot of companies would have choose the safe bet and sticking with the iPod
Before COVID, I flew to a summer vacation in Cyprus. I had to pick badly timed flights over direct daytime ones because that way I could fly on Dash 8 and A220, instead of a boring 737NG the direct flights were flown with. Needless to say, next time I'll pick direct daytime flights instead of arriving at 3AM and departing around midnight, but both Dash 8 and A220 were really interesting to experience! The A220 is just incredibly quiet, and Dash 8 accelerates from standstill like a rocket and takes off in a ridiculously short distance.
I flew on one for the first time recently. Very nice airplane. I loved the large windows! I’m sure it’ll be a great success.
Hi Peter! Thanks for this, and all of your videos, I always find them very interesting! As a proud Canadian, I am both glad and sad about the A220: When Bombardier was developing the aircraft, it looked extremally promising, but it was obvious that the development had put Bombardier's finances on the edge. Boeing's stupid move backfired on them and as a result Airbus got a heck of plane and a great deal. In a bit of Karma, Boeing's move caused them to lose out on a Canadian government new fighter contract. I've heard from a friend in Mirabel that the plant is absolutely buzzing! So I'm happy that this aircraft lives on and is popular with airlines and pilots.
Contrarily, I'm sad that this is the second time Canada has lost a jet transport, the first being the Avro C-102 Jetliner of 1949. Have you heard of this plane? It was the first plane to be called/named "Jetliner" (as one word) and would have beat the De Havilland Comet to the air had it not been for runway repaving at what is now Toronto's Pearson airport. As such, it took to the air 13 days after the Comet. The cabin was pressurized to 10,000 ft, the plane had a ceiling of 35,000 ft. It carried the world's first international jet airmail from Toronto to New York City and the crew was given a ticker-tape parade in NYC. U.S. airlines were interested in it, Howard Hughes wanted to produce it under license. Had it gone into production, it would have beat the Boeing 707 by several years.
As the Korean war was going on, the Canadian government told Avro Canada to prioritize its resources to development of the CF-100 fighter, which would for a time become NATO's best all-weather interceptor with a high rate of climb. The government, for some reason, would not allow AVRO Canada to license it for U.S. production. As such, the Jetliner never went into production. This is a pity, as the aircraft was essentially ready to go, along with an extended version. It would have been very useful as a fast transport during the Korean War, as well as the obvious civilian airliner. In a very interesting "co-incidence", the Jetliner was cut up in the middle of the night in the mid-1950's. The next day Boeing introduced the 707, touting it as the "only flying Jetliner in the world" (the De Havilland Comet was grounded at the time).
I would love to see you do a feature on this forgotten aircraft! It could have been a major player in the industry, but was lost to poor decision-making.
Can't be second time, we lost CRJ as well
I am definitely more of a car guy , but I truly enjoy watching your videos !
That’s awesome to hear!
The A220 needs to get rid of those PW Geared Turbofans. Nice tech, but too unreliable.
Got that right, JetBlue and Delta mechanics change these engines monthly
The 1500 is the entire reason the A220 has appeal.
American never happy with Airbus productions A380 A340
Now backbone breaker A220
✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️✈️🛩️🛩️🛩️🛩️
Maybe cfm leap 1A will do
The rest of the airplane breaks all the time too. Most unreliable Jet I have ever flown.
I've been in the a220 once. I didn't bang my head on the overhead panel, which was nice, and the overhead storage bins actually have space. And I don't need to bend over to get into the lavatory.
Very interesting in-depth thoughts! Thanks!
Also jet blue new all premium economic layout on a220 is just banger
this Canadian designed and built C Series airliner is the best out there.....love flying aboard the CSeries Bombardier airliner
Thank you for your in-depth explanation. It’s professionally written and very informative. You spent a lot of time on this, I deeply appreciate it. Please why the Bombardier CRJ Embraer ERJ family aren't sold anymore?
This was an excellent presentation and I especially appreciated the difficult decisions facing Airbus Management in the coming years. It would be interesting to know the range/payload of an A220-500 variant.
flew a Swiss air A220 a couple years ago and it was BY FAR the best short haul experience I've ever had.
I flew in a A220 with Delta between Boston and Seattle last year and loved it. Great little plane. 👍
As a Canadian, it was a sad day for me when Bombardier was unable to complete the C series and find an interested market for it. Canadian tax payer money went into it, but the financial scale to finally have it become a success was illusive and Airbus really prevented it from becoming just another failed air plane. Then because of Airbus and its marketing and status it is now flying in so many companies fleets.
Well.. to be fair. A220 killed of the A318, and the A319 is pretty much on life suport. The A320 is quite a bit bigger than A220-300 and not really a direct competitor.
It would be very diffrent wirh a A220-500.
Maybe there is some way airbus can soft the A220 to be more simular the A320, curting down the traning a bit.
Would require a complete new cockpit and recertification... essentially a completely new aircraft... and one might actually see this on a225 if they ever build it.
@@w8stral depends on how far they want to go. They may do a compromise where they cut down on pilot training both ways.
@@matsv201 Not possible. From an actual Aero Engineer who has worked for Boeing in several different areas of the commercial airplane side of things and we work with FAA guys daily.
The A220's cockpit design is what pilots asked for, essentially a mini-Dreamliner with a sidestick, EICAS, flight laws similar to the 787, graphical user interfaces and critical items such as the radio stack placed exactly where pilots wanted it. The aircraft is highly automated with electronic checklists. Going back to the A320 cockpit would be a regression.
Top quality content/info/analysis
The A320 is a tried and true airframe, and is not likely gonna be phased out anytime soon, she's still got the massive capacity, and larger more modern engines will fit under her wings, the airframe has a lot of room for future development, no cost of designing something brand new, Design, Improve, Iterate and Refine. A320 is most definitely in the Iteration phase still
" *tired* and true" Freudian slip or just speaking the truth?
@@Jehty21 niceeee, thats a typo good sir well spotted i shall update it.
@@Jehty21Maybe if they were talking about the 737 xD
These market analysis videos are excellent
Like @livethefuture I have a life long love of flying (1st flight from Dum Dum airport to Nepal in a DC3 at 4yrs old!). Modern aircraft are a joy to fly in (unless your flying as a sardine in a UK budget carrier 😏). The days of turbulent, vomit comets like the 707 are a vague memory. The Airbus family are particularly enjoyable without exception. Thank you for this interesting post. Looking firward to a 1st flight in the new addition soon. 👌
Boeing's games around Bombardier were a sign that it was in deeper trouble than anyone understood at the time
Very good video. I always wondered why the vertical and horizontal view in the cockpit is not larger. It seems the instrumentation area takes up a lot the viewing area for the pilots. i thought this might change with the newer aircraft.
I doubt it now that the A320-NEO's are out. But i will say that statistically the A220-300 the largest variant is VERY comparable to the A320 or a 737. In my opinion the A220 is a MUCH quieter more fuel efficient jet by far. I've flown on both MANY times and my first time on an A220 i couldn't believe how quiet it was on take off. I much prefer it over the A320. Airbus can thank Bombardier for making such a great jet.
As mentioned in the video,the problem with the A220 is that as great as it is, it is not a proper Airbus with the consequent lack of commonality and pilot training.
The narrower fuselage of the A220, simply cannot be lengthened to replace the A321, which will continue as the most popular A320 series model for some time to come. As a variant of a very popular range, even a few hundred A320s will be profitable.
Then, we have the possibility of a new wing for the A320 series. As yet, we do not know how close this will take the economies of the A320 series to those of the A220.
On the other hand, of the A220 is an A320 killer, presumably it will have a similar effect on the 737.
Very good info.
231k subs here on your mentor now channel, you are obviously doing it right!
Cheers
Airbus wants to achieve 14/month by 2025
I think that is acceptable for Airbus as there is a long list of waiting passengers for the A321 and with the A220 replace the A320 neos, Airbus can focus on what they're aiming at improve A321 XLR and control the market of short-range-narrow bodies
But it would cost peanuts to develop the A220-500 and open its order book while emphasising to customers that both the wait and the price would be even bigger than for a 320. It would siphon sales away from the 737-7 and 8 even more than from the 319 and 320.
Seems to me that the simplest solution to most of these issues is a “Bus” version of the A220 500 NEIO with new Airbus style cockpit and new engine options.
All the components for this new aircraft would be considered “new” and be open to competitive bidding.
Also a plan to introduce the design and manufacturing changes to both the 100, and 200 variants to improve flight efficiencies, manufacturability, new engine options and the new cockpit layout would be available for new and existing aircraft.
Now is the time to jump on this opportunity as Boeing would be Very reluctant to jump into a 737 full redesign considering the max fiasco and there in inability to get any plane through certification (787)!
Flew on the CRJ900 lastnight for the first time. Quite enjoyable and gave me a little more feel of a private jet. Very fascinating
The RJ is such a good performer
"Hurting sales of A320 neo". Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there over 6000 A320s on back order? Even if there is not a single new order coming in, I think it will take 7-8 years for Airbus to work off the current order book.
He is being a little melodramatic but no there aren't 6000 A320's. There is only 2200 or so. There are around 3600 A321s but only 70 or so A319 NEO's.
Personally, would love the A220-500 AND an A322 - extra long stretch of the 321. Perhaps even a 321 & 322 both with a new wing. This would create a complete family of narrowbodies from 100-275 (all economy) pax.
I think Airbus could potentially set up the A320 family in such a way that it complements well with the A220. Airbus is working on a new composite wing for the A320 and some people have suggested this new wing also opens the door for a further strech - an A322. There is an increasing demand for narrow bodies that can fly really long routs - hence we already have the A321XLR. So in the mid/longterm future Airbus could potenitally create a new generation of A321 and A322 that is mostly optimized for long haul flying while the A220 family is suitable short to medium haul operations.
But I also agree with your assessment that at this point in time Airbus probably doesn't want to push Boeing to start a new development.
You will also need a new fuselage if you build a new wing. Because getting it higher having a stronger landing gear an more is a must. Und compared to the wing it relatively easy to develop.
The next aircraft airbus builds os 100% the successor of the A320 Family. You already see that the A321 is the strongest of all 3 existing types left. And with the XLR it got a really good upgrade.
Airbus can now sit make money and wait and experiment a bit with H2.
If you have the best aircraft on the market there is no need.
Boeing also doesn’t have the financial abilities right now to develop a new program. Boeing still has the 777x to certify. 787 has a 30 billion that it has to make up to break even and the Max is still having major issues.
@@Infiltator2 What is also an advantage for Airbus, they can potentially design the A3x0 larger, so the base model is A321 sized on purpose and so the even larger variants would cut into the ominous "middle of the market" where many analysts say Boeing needs to setup their next aircraft specifically for this market. Because for Boeing if they design a new "middle of the market" aircraft they would give up on the smaller sized aircraft market. Shrinked aircraft are notoriously ineffiecent, because they carry a lot of extra weight around they don't really need, but have to because their bigger variants need this heavy stuff.
@@shi01 U can't really stretch the A321 anymore. The problem with Tailstrikes is already a big one. U would also need another emergency exit. And you have to remmeber that the airframe is also from the early 80s. But the XLR is kind off an Middle of the Market aircraft, atleast the best option right now. U don't need to have the perfect aircraft just the best
You have to take into consideration that the Bombardier deal had a number or restrictions that meant a percentage of the A220 still have be built in Mirabel and changing the working practices of another company takes time. This was demanded by the state of Montreal to allow certain subsidies and the initial ownership transfer to Airbus. The A220 FAL in Mobile is relatively new and and also remember that Mobile A220 FAL was built just before COVID struck and so its ramp-up has been delayed somewhat. This is not unusual as the A320 FAL in China took several years to ramp up. Airbus knew that it would have to renegotiate supply lines and this would have been factored in, knowing that the break-even curve is still much cheaper and less risky than developing a new aircraft. Even if Airbus develops a new aircraft, it would still need new suppliers, so the problem is always there. What Airbus did was to bite the bullet early by effectively finding a cheap replacement for its single aisle while knowing that the A321 is so flexible that can become the mid sized option with impressive range. Without being critical of Boeing, they are extracting every last ounce of juice from the 737 but the market is realistic and that Boeing is in trouble and close to flogging a dead horse. Boeing is bleeding money at the moment and eventually they will have to find an alternative as the next generation aircraft are not even on the drawing board.
After not going on a plane since 2015, I’ve been on 3 trips from April last year till may this year. Two to mainland Europe and one to turkey and every single plane was either an A320 or A321
Very interesting discussion!!
Purely for a 2+3 layout. 2 seats are SO much better than 3. One of the main reasons why Embraer E-Jets are hands down my favourites to fly on. My second favourite is E145 for the single seat!
This is really a happy problem for Airbus. They were well aware of the initial growing pains involved in acquiring the 220 beforehand. It really represents more of a problem for Boeing as airlines like having two airplane types of the same category in case one fleet gets grounded like it happened with the Max. Now they can opt for two fleets from the same manufacturer. The A220 has already practically killed the A319. And I can foresee Airbus replacing an A320 line with an efficient A220 line as market dictates. Or, at least reorganizing and growing the Mirabel line to be more productive.
Also, certifying a second engine type for the A220 is not such a big deal and a normal expense for every airliner.
It says a great deal about the quality of the Canadian design that Airbus invested in it in spite of the challenges.
It is a terrifically good design once built - ultra-efficient, easy to fly, very safe, quiet and comfortable. But Petter's point is that it is hard to build because Bombardier did not pay enough attention to designing for mass production - probably never dreaming that it would potentially sell in the thousands.
@@kenoliver8913Bombardier simply couldn’t have designed it for mass production on Airbus levels, the capital investment wouldn’t have been worth it
Airbus CEO bought Bombardier on instinct (gut feeling he said) - now we get to see the result and also how dumb boeing was to contest the canadians expanding their operations into the USA initially (with the A220 factory).
I guess you should make a video now explaining the manufacturing business model and efficiencies of Embraer building their airliners 190E2 and 195E2.
The A220 is hands down the most comfortable narrow body currently flying. Love the 3-2 configuration I'd be happy to never step foot on a 737 or 320 again.
I still can't believe the A380 basically got throw away after less than 10 years ... I flew on one of the first routes available early in winter 2010. I know it is ignorance, but sometimes I wish they would just settle on what planes we need 😭 ... somebody has to pay for all those underused A380 and I think it will be us passengers ultimately.
You DO know the A380 is making a comeback? Lufthansa has taken at least 5 megajumbo's out of storage, BA also got some planes back.
But 4enginewidebodies are simply a bit out of efficiency, that is why you see A330's and A350's (both dualengine) taking up that role. Far more efficient in fueluse.
@@Dirk-van-den-Berg I think Mentour made a video about the possibility of a 2-engine jumbo. It would have to be a substantially different design because the required engines would be gigantic--might have to be fuselage-mounted or a high-wing design.
The biggest 777 variants also start to get into the jumbo range in capability, but they don't cover it.
@@MattMcIrvin Yeah, he did, but a dualengined widebody would require an all fresh design, and Boeing has.... well, you know. And Airbus has that market pretty much under control with the 330 and 350.
The 380 was not well designed from a commercial POV. Old engines, too thick a wing (should have had folding wingtips like the 777X for a better aspect ratio), too heavy, a fuselage design that is useless for freight. Of course it is the most comfortable airliner ever built but it is just too thirsty to compete with the big twins.
very well done
I love the A220 as a passenger. I pray P&W can fix the problems and improve repair speed.
A look at the potential Spirit/Jetblue combined fleet might be interesting.
Interesting topic, however the a320neo is here to stay for a long time, no going to be replaced soon by a220 as you rightly said the differences in cockpit and avionics compared to a320 are bigger than on any other airbus type and this is particularly troublesome for airlines heavily invested in a320 like easyjet and they will never swap to a220 anytime soon, I think for now most of the airlines have seen the a220 as an aircraft to replace their older embrarer regional jests, anyway as said biggest problem is type rating and training for pilots, the a320 fullf light sim is much cheaper more available and if a pilot has a320 type rating he just needs a refreshment and can fly the neo too, a220 is different in terms of cost operating
And the P&W-Engines of the A 220 are momentarily a huge problem, too.
@@NicolaW72 ye but that should be the same on the a320neo equipped with the PW variant, so far I have seen most neos using PW, even though easyjet only uses CFM LEAP, lucky them :)
Thanks so much
I feel like that’s where the xlr comes in…to differentiate with the a200 family
And in term the a320 family will all be xlr or lr
Thank you 😊
If the A220 hurts 737 demand more than it does A320 demand, it's a win of Airbus. Better to cannibalize your own products than to have another company do it for (to) you.
Gee if the A220 damages A320 sales imagine what it will do to the 737s! And if the 220 canibalises 320 sales, why would Airbus care anyway? They got the 220 for free, so undoubtedly will make far more profit in the long run from a 220 sale than a 320 sale even if production costs stay a little higher (which they won't if enough are sold). Plus there is of course, as this video points out, the old Bill Gates saying - "if you don't cannibalise your own product line someone else will".
I think the lack of commonality is more of a problem than you mention here.
Airlines operating several A320 family members can easily switch their pilots around between them. They may fly a 319 today, a 321 tomorrow - but they can't easily fly a 220 the following day. Having to separate their flight crews between the different types makes things more complicated (expensive) for airlines, so this may outweigh the benefits.
For airlines that don't operate any 320 family aircraft yet, this of course is no issue...
I really hoped good technical designs get properly rewarded. It is heartening that it is. Putting extra features on the 220 500 with engine options, enhanced commonality, rwnegotiated suppliers, ...
Flew on an Air France A220 after years of A320 - loved the flight on that nifty plane !
A321 XLR range is 4700 Nautical Miles or 8200 KM, it's as far as New York to Minsk (Belarus) or Dallas to Honolulu, basically a long haul single aisle aircraft, even further than the original Boeing 747-100 and 747-200, a truly widebody aircraft.
No wonder why Airline who only operate airbus aircraft today choose A220 for regional or shorter haul flights and use A321 XLR for long haul overseas flights.
I'm still saddened how Airbus now gets all the credit for this aircraft, at least in terms of its name. It too me will always remain the CS-300 and CS-100.
I'll say it right now: if Airbus *DOES* launch the A220-500 model, I can see JetBlue make a *HUGE* order for the plane. Reason: replace the entire A320-200 fleet JetBlue now flies, possibly as many as 120 planes. That is unless Airbus can offer a deal to sell JetBlue 100+ A320neo planes so retraining flight crews, cabin crews and ground crews are way less of an issue.
I'm definitely becoming a well educated viewer. my first thought was "are the A220 and A320 the same type rating?" and my second was "how hard would it be to convert A320 lines to produce the A220?" neither answer is in airbus' favor.
I'm rooting for Boeing to shift back to being an aircraft innovator. I'd love to see them start a clean sheet program to build a completely new family of aircraft, starting with the heir to the 747.
I won't be surprised if they just throw the 777-10 and called it a day
As for that last paragraph of yours, Boeing need to do a complete 180* for any of that to even Look like happening!. The organization clearly lacks the motivation to 'make things happen' like they used to.
@@michaelosgood9876 all it takes is a change in priorities.
Latest rumor, instead of a 500 series, Airbus would go for a larger variant and call it the 221 with another engine option. The 220 is still a fairly new airplane with some minor bugs to work out, but from a pilot standpoint, it is a lot of fun to fly..