This is why I love the suspension on my 03 Land Rover discovery. Long arm suspension and the arms are level. Never understood why jeep keeps using those short arms. Dont get me wrong I like jeeps too, but Land Rover definitely has the edge as far as suspension.
Very well explained! If one is changing the vehicle suspension he should know about physics dealing with FORCE, PIVOT and LOAD. I saw a FJ cruiser with front extended travel suspension with an adapter on outer tie-rod getting bent due to lack of knowledge about physics.
This can also apply to leaf spring vehicles too. If you have a spring with a lot of arc and you compress the spring the spring essentially gets longer and it gets shorter under full droop. The more arc to your spring the more the horizontal axle movement you’ll get.
um.....just because you may get more lift with more arch, does not neccessarily mean you'll get more travel. the amount of travel will determine the amount of horizontal movement. 🙄
I have two requests. A comprehensive video explaining the different locker types, and where they work the best. Like a rear selectable locker makes the car more street worthy, and when a front auto locker would be a good idea. Secondly the internet needs a really good breakdown on how auto lockers actually work. Maybe that video could talk about the little differences between a detroit, lokka, aussie, and torq. There are a bunch of videos talking about them, but none that really explain exactly how they operate and unlock. I haven't found a video of one working with the diff cover off either.
Great video Nate! I dig the white board. It would be been cool to see some side by side real world comparison... say send the short arm jeep up an obstacle and then the long arm and show the real physical difference... but I digress. Good job mang!
I'm absolutely ecstatic to come across your channel friend:) so refreshing to see truly unbiased, factually accurate comparisons on ANY topic on RUclips! I'm glad you brought up the strength increase with a short arm suspension, I would add one more item to the "pros" list on the short arm side which I've not seen anyone mention and that is Unsprung Weight. The DOM tubing most use in a long arm setup probably weighs 3-4 times what a typical factory short arm setup. Just something else to consider on your respective build.
I was on the fence about a LA kit until I saw this video. Just finished purchasing and installing a Metal Cloak LA kit. Definitely a difference and I should have done it a long time ago. Great information and great videos, keep up the good work.
Great video, I have leaf springs with reverse shackles so it doesn't apply to me but now I can wade into the inevitable debates that rage around the campfire with a bit of knowledge on the subject!
Now do a video explaining the pros and cons of long vs short in the rear. Less rear end rise during braking, under power the rear axle doesn't try going under the vehicle, putting more power to the ground with a long arm. Good video.
I can definitely feel horizontal movement in my xj 6in lift on short arms I opted for short arms to save money at the time long arms will be installed come bonus time along with ditching the Add-A-Leaf and installing new leaf packs
For the average wheeler aka 75%+ people a solid short arm kit from currie or metalcloak would be more then enough. But for those serious rock crawlers and 38+ tires a quality long arm would be the go to.
Good video. Should point out to folks that most “long arm” kits for TJ’s are actually radius arms which is not what is on Nate’s TJ. I think Nate had those at one point. Radius arms do have some cons to consider.
I don't the term "long arm" has much to do with the actually configuration of the arms themselves. Rubicon Express made the very first long arm kits for TJs where the fronts are "radius arms" as you said but even a true 3 or 4 link is a "long arm" if the arms are..well...long.
16 years with RE long arms. I can’t speak for all but mine need constant attention, lube and retorqing. I call my TJ Grendel because he keeps losing his arms.
Lol great name. Your joints are a bigger factor in this case. I've have alot of Rubicon Express parts over the years and the joints/bushings were a constant problem. I've got ballistic joints on my tj now and some of them are 10 years old without needing a rebuild!
I took it over from my father who was not great with maintenance. I have a *ton* of stuff to do and new joints isn’t in the budget. Maybe after the new rear drive shaft, and about ten other things. :-) Thanks for the effort you make for us, your viewers. Keep ‘em coming. I am coming into a “maintenance” shift on Grendel.
I left because I didn't want to put anymore energy into something I don't own. I made 52 videos for BJ and Matt owns everyone of them. I didn't feel like I fit in with what Matt had built either so it was time to build my own identity. Thanks for watching!
Been watching a lot of these videos. I am coming from a drop, air bags, etc (complete opposite), and while the same principles apply, the rational is opposite. In this case many times you want to limit travel and have very stiff suspension set up when you drop with wider tires. Which case using short arms is preferred, along with tucking everything away. I agree with Mr. Dirt that for the most part long arms provide better overall performance.
@@DirtLifestyle Is there a long arm suspension kit you would recommend on a TJ Rubi? I really don't see any beyond Metalcloak, and most keep telling me to get the currie short arm because MC is crap, so I have no idea what to pick.
I’m currently building a 2001 Jeep Wrangler Tj with a heavily built Cummins 4bt turbo Diesel engine a Jeep Lj frame kit to get rid of the bulky Ness of the Tj frame, full width one ton axles front is a Dana 60 rear is a gm 14 bolt I plan on putting 44 inch tires on it and the rear axle is gonna be a full spook I actually have the rear axle built and heeded and working on building the front axle but what kind of suspension should I put on it I’ve hear coil overs are good but I really haven’t heard anyone doing exactly what I’m doing and I’m game for any advice I can get it’s gonna mainly be an off-road vehicle sense I’ve got my jk for a daily but plan on making my jk more offroadable as well but not as much as my Tj thanks
Sounds like a fun project! Coilovers are always a good option. I would run 2.5" or larger. You have alot of weight in the front end with that motor. You might overwhelm a 2" coilover. Your mounting solutions are much easier to figure out with a coilover. If you use shock hoops to mount your coil overs I would recommend a crossover tower between the two front hoops. Again, lots of weight up there so you dont want to stress fracture or break any brackets 👍. Good luck with your build brother
They work great if you have very little lift. Say 2" or so. Then you can correct your caster angle but if you go much taller you still have a problem with you suspension geometry. The only way to fix it is to relocate the control arms on the frame side. 👍
I’m having control problems with my jk 2door I have replaced all my steering and drag links to hiem joint and 1.5 inch bars it has a 6 inch lift and 38’s do you think a long arm kit would help my hwy driving control or keep adjusting and tweaking the short arms
So I asked this question on another video someone had and they never answered me lol. So imma try urs bc u sound like uk what ur talking about. I have a ram 2500 diesel. Level kit on it. And it just rides rough. I was thinking about a long arm or radius arm kit with some upgraded carli springs instead of the rough country. I don't do alot of off road stuff mostly just daily driver. Will the long arm make it ride smoother on the highway? And do u think the tuff country kit is worth buying or should I go with the synergy.
My 2 cents. Long arms are great on an xj or tj. The long arm waste of money is more for the jk crowd. Jks have a much longer stock control arm. You touched on it towards the end. Plus you can fit 37s on 4 inches of lift on a jk. So longer arms and needing half the lift compared to a tj they are a waste for most weekend warriors. Also was watching muddy beard because i love the ford dana 44 videos. Then saw his gen right tank video and was like hey he's friends with nate. I never watched the dana 30 part 2 video.
It highly depends what jeep you have and what setup it's running as is said in the video. JK and JL arms are MUCH (15 inches on stock TJ vs 22 on stock JK) longer than stock TJ arms, and for moderate lifts going long arms is much less of a big deal. Even higher lifts around 4 inches over stock are fine most of the time on newer JLs as their arms are a bit longer than JKs and the body isolation is so much better that the bumps are really smoothed out. For a TJ or any older Jeep? Long arms for days. Long arms are better, but for someone with 3.5 inches of lift on a JK or JL, they aren't 3 grand better.
@@SSMJ AEV Expedition makes a geometry correction kit for the front lower arms that helps with dive and handling for lifts over 3 inches on JKs and it makes a big difference. It's only $105 and not hard to install and fully adjustable for different sized lifts. I put them on my 2012 when I had a brand new it was amazing the difference in ride quality
I have been running the 4.5 short arm kit in an Xj for over 10 years. I have found them super comfortable and reliable at about 1/2 the cost. These bolt-in and require no fab work. ALTHOUGH realizing what Nate stated about the short arm travel causing forward/upward movement and pullback/droop, I also installed the drop brackets from rockyroad. They are super strong and nearly flatten the arms. I've never had an issue with clearance or limitation on wheeling, for me with the 33" tire. The tire nearly covered the bracket so when the tire rolls off a rock it nearly clears the bracket. I am sure there is a small compromise, like in every mod. Any higher of a lift you will want long arms. Hope this helps.
The only reason I went short arms is because I didn’t want to pay for the welding on the long arm brackets. I look back at it all the time wishing I just went long arms. I will in the future/on my next build
sendit schutte not necessarily true. Look for and read my other comment about leaf springs. Spring arc is comparable to arm length. But kind of the opposite. The more arc to a leaf is like having shorter arms. The more you compress the spring the more horizontal axle movement you’ll get.
@@stevej6824 yes but still my comment was about not having to worry about arm length because you don't have any... Which side of the spring your shackle is also plays a big role, front shackles shove the tire forward like a short arm while a rear shackle moves the tire rearward
Great explanation. I've been a fan of long arms for many years and have been criticized for it but have been very pleased with the performance, especially on my JKUR. My ride quality is FANTASTIC because my control arms are nearly parallel with the ground and thus allowing the springs to absorb the movement rather than transferring it into the control arms and chassis. One thing you didn't mention that I feel is important is that with long arms the actual bushings will have less twisting for the same amount of vertical travel compared to a short arm with translates to less binding of the bushings as well as longer life of the bushings. The only negative I've had with mine is on a few obstacles the mounting points on the frame have been catch points and when trying to get up and over them the tires will unload and therefore lose traction. It hasn't been a deal breaker but I drive accordingly minimize this scenario. Overall great video and explanation. Thanks. Mike
My first thought upon seeing this video: "Hey, that's the bleepin' jeep guy". My second thought 30 seconds into this video: "this is an excellent video. More like this, please".
Finally! I wish this was available when I was starting out. Now all that's left is the radius, vs 3 and 4 link argument lol. Seriously though if you're gonna spend money for new control arms. spend about 1/3 more $ for a long arm kit. It is a night and day difference off road. Even a cheaper radius arms are worth it especially if you spend more time on the road. But if your going after the full crawler roll cage ECT. Gotta get 4-3link. Nate great video Sir 👍.
3 link allows more flex with less binding, but the single mounting point on the axle handles more stress at a single point and might break if its not "beefy" enough stock or reinforced,4 linkis more rigid/stable but is more likely to bind up against itself in more extreme flex situations
Going long arm is significantly more then short arm, 2 to 3x more. The lift is twice as much, and it requires twice the labor and experience. Especially if you're talking a short wheel base like a TJ, due to having to add the cost of a slip yoke eliminator and a new rear driveline. For a streetable vehicle, a 4-link (5 with track bar) front and triangulated 4-link rear provides the best travel and driveability.
Shopping around for my JKU 2018 with 35 inch tires not for a long arm. I am presently looking at the Rubicon Express 4.5 inch RE7144m lift kit with 8 adjustable arms with the RE monotube shocks or also contemplating buying the TeraFlex TER 1451401 4 inch lift with VSS 9550 shocks and 8 Alpine adjustable arms. So far I found the RE being 900$ less. Which one would you recommend ?
I've always had trouble with long arms. My shirt sleeves were always too short.🤣 Just got my first jeep (a jku) and doing research for what I want to do with it. Thanks for the explanation. 👍
I still run short arms on my JK, but I have Rancho front correction brackets and the metalcloak DB3 rear drop brackets. My control arms sit almost flat with a 4 inch lift.
Same length as drive shaft, less walk, less camber/pinion change through travel. Try pushing a wheel barrow over a bump at a higher angle. Done. Awesome vid.
don't take this as a jeep hating comment/question because it isn't meant to be. I like Jeeps, but I really like trucks. 10 years in a Lifted s-10 Zr2. not doing that again.. EVER! lol so the question becomes If a guy is to spend the time/money to convert a jeep to Long travel. why not (for guys like me) just convert a Taco to long travel SA?
It all depends on what kind of rig you enjoy owning. A jeep is nice because you can just buy a long arm off the shelf and more or less bolt it on. But there is a ton of advantages to having an sas truck too. It's all about your wants/needs. 👊
I think leaving pinion angle out of this conversation is a little bit of a let down. Both will have a pinion angle change over a certain ride height range but a short arm will have more change towards the extreme end of travel no matter how well engineered the system is. Why do you care? Because pinion bearings, drive shaft u joints and CV joints all require a certain angle to stay lubricated. Matters less while offroading but still matters to not min/max out your driveline components through suspension articulation. Unless you don't care about replacing them all the time I guess. :)
This video was excellent but I had to see a few crap ones that popped up ranked higher first to find it. Do yourself a favor and check the SEO ranking of this video man. Thanks for the great video man!
Hi Nate. Couple questions as I watch this again: I'm HUGE pro-long arm as you are and I'm about ready to pull the trigger on (probably) an RE for my LJ build (maybe Clayton again). Q #1: yours is quite customized, but is it all custom or is there a kit such as RE as the beginnings? Q #2: as seen at 3:12, your front pinion is pointed slightly higher than your front driveshaft. Not much but it's noticeable. Is this the way the TJ is sitting for the vid or the way you sit normally? If the latter, why? Cheers. 👍
My old Xj had a 4.5 lift on short arms. My new jeep has a 4.5 lift on long arms. I did not by the lift, it was on it, so this is not me speaking to justify the cost, but the long arm drives way better than the short arm.
In your opinion, would something like a IRO short arm kit be alright for minor wheeling? I would love the long arm, but don’t have to money to upgrade. 😂
Everything works lol. You can run what ever you want just understand the consequences of the geometry you are running. You can run a 6" lift on short arms and beat the hell out of it but you sacrifice ride quality, handling, stability and on/off capability. Thanks for watching! Good luck with your build 👍
How does a mid arm (Currie) fit into all this? Just middle ground between the two? You should also do a 3/4 link vs radius arms (Ford/Land Rover disco) as far as wheeling and daily driving video.
Okay so I have decided that this summer (when works at its best) I’m gonna buy another 4x4. I’ve owned three before but sold them when something broke. Loved off-roading but didn’t know where to start with fix things or preventing things from breaking in the first place. It’s definitely going to be a project, but I’m going to follow pretty much all your videos. I’d even like to follow along with engine swaps and everything. I’ve learnt so much from watching your videos already and think it’s time I put it to the test and see what I can do my self. So if you happen to have read all this, I’d just like to thank you for all the content you post, I genuinely watch every video you post.
I have the 2 link long arms on my XJ and it's a night and day difference from the short arms. Smooth as silk on the trails & with all my spinal surgeries, the smoother the better, making it where I'm able to now get back out there. Great info and video brother 👍
I need to drive my 05 TJ rubicon about 12 hours on the highway to get to the mountains for trail running and camping. I have an adjustable short arm suspension currently. About 3.5” of lift, 33 tires. It’s torture driving that thing 12 hours on road. Seriously debating a long arm kit simply based on reviews saying it will vastly improve on road handling.
I installed the Metal Cloak 3.5" lift springs with double adjustable short arms, the flex is great and I contacted MC to see if I could just buy the long arms and re use my ends, they adamantly told me after tons of research NOT to go long arm with 3.5" lift, said they have tested it and the cons are worse than the benefits. I still want to go long arm but I question why a company would advise me NOT to give them more money. So for now I am happy to just buy other parts for my jeep. BTW, my jeep drives great, I have fox shocks and currie antirock sway bars along with 35's aired at 28 psi.
Love this video. got a 3 link in my jeep and will never go back to short arms. they take a little bit of getting used to driving with no sway bars but they don't fail to impress people. especially if they look under it and know what they're looking at
Love your channel. I have a TJ with a 4" Skyjacker lift on 33's and a LJU Rubicon with a 4" Skyjacker lift on 37's. I get so much information from your channel. Thank you!
Not sure unfortunately. I don't have alot of experience with aftermarket lift kits. I would do a ton of research and go with one that has a good reputation in the industry. 👍
Great job explaining simple trigonometry, with out using any math. This is why you have one of the best off-road channels. Thank you.
Thanks man! Big compliment 🤘
the laser demo really helped me understand what's the difference is. good points about what the tradeoffs are. Thanks!
I have short arms as well. It causes me to move the seat forward a few more inches.
Heyoooo!
😂 😂
My legs too !
FTW!
😂😂😂
Great info! Just installed a long arm kit on my wife's Jeep and it is amazing!!
This is why I love the suspension on my 03 Land Rover discovery. Long arm suspension and the arms are level. Never understood why jeep keeps using those short arms. Dont get me wrong I like jeeps too, but Land Rover definitely has the edge as far as suspension.
By far the best channel on RUclips! And way to represent us PNW folks 🤙
Thank you!
Phenomenal explanation on this subject. THANK YOU NATE!! I Love your videos and they explain so much! im so glad i subscribed to this channel.
Thanks for watching!
Very well explained! If one is changing the vehicle suspension he should know about physics dealing with FORCE, PIVOT and LOAD. I saw a FJ cruiser with front extended travel suspension with an adapter on outer tie-rod getting bent due to lack of knowledge about physics.
This can also apply to leaf spring vehicles too.
If you have a spring with a lot of arc and you compress the spring the spring essentially gets longer and it gets shorter under full droop.
The more arc to your spring the more the horizontal axle movement you’ll get.
um.....just because you may get more lift with more arch, does not neccessarily mean you'll get more travel.
the amount of travel will determine the amount of horizontal movement. 🙄
michael Harris exactly.
Very well done. I fell more educated and i understand the geometry of the suspension better now.
Thank you
I have two requests. A comprehensive video explaining the different locker types, and where they work the best. Like a rear selectable locker makes the car more street worthy, and when a front auto locker would be a good idea. Secondly the internet needs a really good breakdown on how auto lockers actually work. Maybe that video could talk about the little differences between a detroit, lokka, aussie, and torq. There are a bunch of videos talking about them, but none that really explain exactly how they operate and unlock. I haven't found a video of one working with the diff cover off either.
I would love to make these video. I have many projects to juggle!
Great video Nate! I dig the white board. It would be been cool to see some side by side real world comparison... say send the short arm jeep up an obstacle and then the long arm and show the real physical difference... but I digress. Good job mang!
I'm absolutely ecstatic to come across your channel friend:) so refreshing to see truly unbiased, factually accurate comparisons on ANY topic on RUclips! I'm glad you brought up the strength increase with a short arm suspension, I would add one more item to the "pros" list on the short arm side which I've not seen anyone mention and that is Unsprung Weight. The DOM tubing most use in a long arm setup probably weighs 3-4 times what a typical factory short arm setup. Just something else to consider on your respective build.
I was on the fence about a LA kit until I saw this video. Just finished purchasing and installing a Metal Cloak LA kit.
Definitely a difference and I should have done it a long time ago.
Great information and great videos, keep up the good work.
Great video, I have leaf springs with reverse shackles so it doesn't apply to me but now I can wade into the inevitable debates that rage around the campfire with a bit of knowledge on the subject!
Thanks! Doing a shackle reversal is a very similar concept and the same principles apply!
@@DirtLifestyle I guess it is better to be lucky than good lol ;)
Now do a video explaining the pros and cons of long vs short in the rear. Less rear end rise during braking, under power the rear axle doesn't try going under the vehicle, putting more power to the ground with a long arm. Good video.
Thanks for taking the time to produce this! First time viewer...subscribed!
Awesome! Thanks for watching and welcome aboard!
IVE SEEN SOME JEEPS WITH JUST A FRONT LONG ARM AND SHORTS IN THE REAR
Yep, some folks build in stages. I build the same way when I don't have the cash to do it all at once👍
I can definitely feel horizontal movement in my xj 6in lift on short arms I opted for short arms to save money at the time long arms will be installed come bonus time along with ditching the Add-A-Leaf and installing new leaf packs
I went through the same path. I had 6 in springs and short arms until I could afford long arms. It's the growing period we all go through 🤘😂
For the average wheeler aka 75%+ people a solid short arm kit from currie or metalcloak would be more then enough. But for those serious rock crawlers and 38+ tires a quality long arm would be the go to.
Good video. Should point out to folks that most “long arm” kits for TJ’s are actually radius arms which is not what is on Nate’s TJ. I think Nate had those at one point. Radius arms do have some cons to consider.
I don't the term "long arm" has much to do with the actually configuration of the arms themselves. Rubicon Express made the very first long arm kits for TJs where the fronts are "radius arms" as you said but even a true 3 or 4 link is a "long arm" if the arms are..well...long.
Long arms are definitely more important on a TJ. Nice video man.
Thank you!
Love you videos brotha!!!!! Full of knowledge and detailed explanation. Much appreciated 🤘🤘🤘🤘
Thanks buddy 👊
Best explanation I have seen on this topic. Thanks.
No prob!
Good oldschool leafspring only!
16 years with RE long arms. I can’t speak for all but mine need constant attention, lube and retorqing. I call my TJ Grendel because he keeps losing his arms.
Lol great name. Your joints are a bigger factor in this case. I've have alot of Rubicon Express parts over the years and the joints/bushings were a constant problem. I've got ballistic joints on my tj now and some of them are 10 years old without needing a rebuild!
I took it over from my father who was not great with maintenance. I have a *ton* of stuff to do and new joints isn’t in the budget. Maybe after the new rear drive shaft, and about ten other things. :-) Thanks for the effort you make for us, your viewers. Keep ‘em coming. I am coming into a “maintenance” shift on Grendel.
Awesome thanks for the info. Selling my rustys short arms and gunna get me some long arms.
Don’t even have them on my Jeep but thanks for the input.
Broke both my dana 44 front axles with short arm lift when I was locked up on my tj. It was a fooked up day. 🤪
How come you're not on Bleepinjeep anymore? I was wondering where you went, this video popped up in my recommendations.
I left because I didn't want to put anymore energy into something I don't own. I made 52 videos for BJ and Matt owns everyone of them. I didn't feel like I fit in with what Matt had built either so it was time to build my own identity. Thanks for watching!
Super explanation !
Thank you!
If you want more suspention content you should do a leaf spring to coil conversion. my yj is free, just sayin!!!
Been watching a lot of these videos. I am coming from a drop, air bags, etc (complete opposite), and while the same principles apply, the rational is opposite. In this case many times you want to limit travel and have very stiff suspension set up when you drop with wider tires. Which case using short arms is preferred, along with tucking everything away. I agree with Mr. Dirt that for the most part long arms provide better overall performance.
always super helpful how you explain stuff Nate!
I like my long arm. Great video!
I’d like a long arm kit but here in Australia, they are illegal :/
3rd option: control arm drop brackets.
Very informative! Thanks for putting this one together 🔧
Thanks! Happy to help 👍
Long arm is the way to go
Definitely long arms make a difference. My friend had his XJ with short arms and 4.5 in lift and it would death wobble every quarter mile.
Did you mention the WJ?! Did we just become best friends?! 🤣🤣🤣 #LiftedMiniVan
Lol 🤘
love your channel Nate, how did you end up with your skills ? self-taught ?
Does a long arm kit make highway driving(65+) a lot better than short arm?
Imo absolutely. Better steering response because of less body roll which can be attributed to better antisquat and anti dive numbers
@@DirtLifestyle Is there a long arm suspension kit you would recommend on a TJ Rubi? I really don't see any beyond Metalcloak, and most keep telling me to get the currie short arm because MC is crap, so I have no idea what to pick.
Thanks for the hard work bud
great video/explanation, ty
76 cj would like to get coil springs and long arms.
kit you would recommend?
wow, great info well done. thanks 👍
I’m currently building a 2001 Jeep Wrangler Tj with a heavily built Cummins 4bt turbo Diesel engine a Jeep Lj frame kit to get rid of the bulky Ness of the Tj frame, full width one ton axles front is a Dana 60 rear is a gm 14 bolt I plan on putting 44 inch tires on it and the rear axle is gonna be a full spook I actually have the rear axle built and heeded and working on building the front axle but what kind of suspension should I put on it I’ve hear coil overs are good but I really haven’t heard anyone doing exactly what I’m doing and I’m game for any advice I can get it’s gonna mainly be an off-road vehicle sense I’ve got my jk for a daily but plan on making my jk more offroadable as well but not as much as my Tj thanks
Sounds like a fun project! Coilovers are always a good option. I would run 2.5" or larger. You have alot of weight in the front end with that motor. You might overwhelm a 2" coilover. Your mounting solutions are much easier to figure out with a coilover. If you use shock hoops to mount your coil overs I would recommend a crossover tower between the two front hoops. Again, lots of weight up there so you dont want to stress fracture or break any brackets 👍. Good luck with your build brother
Next video might be replacing those frame side body mounts😬
Would Having adjustable short arms make a big difference ? Or would it be not worth the extra 400$ and I just keep factory arm length ?
They work great if you have very little lift. Say 2" or so. Then you can correct your caster angle but if you go much taller you still have a problem with you suspension geometry. The only way to fix it is to relocate the control arms on the frame side. 👍
Dirt Lifestyle thank you for the quick reply !
So does the length of the control arms for the rear end matter as much since they are in front of the axle ?
It definitely does matter but it's hard to say if it does as much as the front. 👍
I’m having control problems with my jk 2door I have replaced all my steering and drag links to hiem joint and 1.5 inch bars it has a 6 inch lift and 38’s do you think a long arm kit would help my hwy driving control or keep adjusting and tweaking the short arms
So I asked this question on another video someone had and they never answered me lol. So imma try urs bc u sound like uk what ur talking about. I have a ram 2500 diesel. Level kit on it. And it just rides rough. I was thinking about a long arm or radius arm kit with some upgraded carli springs instead of the rough country. I don't do alot of off road stuff mostly just daily driver. Will the long arm make it ride smoother on the highway? And do u think the tuff country kit is worth buying or should I go with the synergy.
Actually brackets hang no lower than a long arm and are way cheaper.
It will not play and i know its not my connection cause a checked other videos and they played fine
Very strange! It keeps getting veiws and comments. I wonder what the heck is going on?
@@DirtLifestyle it finally ended up working just weird that it would play other videos just not this one
In short, get long arms
lol
T-Rex 🦖 is strong but He can’t climb like Stretch Armstrong 💪
My 2 cents. Long arms are great on an xj or tj. The long arm waste of money is more for the jk crowd. Jks have a much longer stock control arm. You touched on it towards the end. Plus you can fit 37s on 4 inches of lift on a jk. So longer arms and needing half the lift compared to a tj they are a waste for most weekend warriors.
Also was watching muddy beard because i love the ford dana 44 videos. Then saw his gen right tank video and was like hey he's friends with nate. I never watched the dana 30 part 2 video.
Best/ clearest explanation on this topic I've seen.
Thanks!
@@DirtLifestyle Me too !
Agreed.
Agreed.
Agreed, To the point, technical and no BS. Thanks!!
Short arms are only good for stock vehicles and T-Rex 🦖
Roar 🦖 😁
or if you are broke and dont have the 3 grand to be able to buy the kits for a wj and dont want to make one with it being a uni body
Steve J Hahahaha I love that
It highly depends what jeep you have and what setup it's running as is said in the video. JK and JL arms are MUCH (15 inches on stock TJ vs 22 on stock JK) longer than stock TJ arms, and for moderate lifts going long arms is much less of a big deal. Even higher lifts around 4 inches over stock are fine most of the time on newer JLs as their arms are a bit longer than JKs and the body isolation is so much better that the bumps are really smoothed out. For a TJ or any older Jeep? Long arms for days.
Long arms are better, but for someone with 3.5 inches of lift on a JK or JL, they aren't 3 grand better.
@@SSMJ AEV Expedition makes a geometry correction kit for the front lower arms that helps with dive and handling for lifts over 3 inches on JKs and it makes a big difference. It's only $105 and not hard to install and fully adjustable for different sized lifts. I put them on my 2012 when I had a brand new it was amazing the difference in ride quality
I have been running the 4.5 short arm kit in an Xj for over 10 years. I have found them super comfortable and reliable at about 1/2 the cost. These bolt-in and require no fab work. ALTHOUGH realizing what Nate stated about the short arm travel causing forward/upward movement and pullback/droop, I also installed the drop brackets from rockyroad. They are super strong and nearly flatten the arms. I've never had an issue with clearance or limitation on wheeling, for me with the 33" tire. The tire nearly covered the bracket so when the tire rolls off a rock it nearly clears the bracket. I am sure there is a small compromise, like in every mod. Any higher of a lift you will want long arms. Hope this helps.
I 3 linked mine and it made all the difference the ride quality is so much better
The only reason I went short arms is because I didn’t want to pay for the welding on the long arm brackets. I look back at it all the time wishing I just went long arms. I will in the future/on my next build
Dont have to worry about arm length when you're on leaf springs👍🏼
sendit schutte not necessarily true.
Look for and read my other comment about leaf springs.
Spring arc is comparable to arm length.
But kind of the opposite.
The more arc to a leaf is like having shorter arms.
The more you compress the spring the more horizontal axle movement you’ll get.
@@stevej6824 yes but still my comment was about not having to worry about arm length because you don't have any...
Which side of the spring your shackle is also plays a big role, front shackles shove the tire forward like a short arm while a rear shackle moves the tire rearward
sendit schutte very true.
Having front shackles is similar to having short arms.
Leaf springs are for poor people 🐸 ☕️
@@Bodeesafa Keep It Simple Stupid
Great explanation. I've been a fan of long arms for many years and have been criticized for it but have been very pleased with the performance, especially on my JKUR. My ride quality is FANTASTIC because my control arms are nearly parallel with the ground and thus allowing the springs to absorb the movement rather than transferring it into the control arms and chassis. One thing you didn't mention that I feel is important is that with long arms the actual bushings will have less twisting for the same amount of vertical travel compared to a short arm with translates to less binding of the bushings as well as longer life of the bushings. The only negative I've had with mine is on a few obstacles the mounting points on the frame have been catch points and when trying to get up and over them the tires will unload and therefore lose traction. It hasn't been a deal breaker but I drive accordingly minimize this scenario. Overall great video and explanation.
Thanks.
Mike
My first thought upon seeing this video: "Hey, that's the bleepin' jeep guy". My second thought 30 seconds into this video: "this is an excellent video. More like this, please".
Thanks man! Will do 👍
Yeah, production is much more entertaining than bleepin jeep.
Finally! I wish this was available when I was starting out. Now all that's left is the radius, vs 3 and 4 link argument lol. Seriously though if you're gonna spend money for new control arms. spend about 1/3 more $ for a long arm kit. It is a night and day difference off road. Even a cheaper radius arms are worth it especially if you spend more time on the road. But if your going after the full crawler roll cage ECT. Gotta get 4-3link.
Nate great video Sir 👍.
3 link allows more flex with less binding, but the single mounting point on the axle handles more stress at a single point and might break if its not "beefy" enough stock or reinforced,4 linkis more rigid/stable but is more likely to bind up against itself in more extreme flex situations
Going long arm is significantly more then short arm, 2 to 3x more. The lift is twice as much, and it requires twice the labor and experience. Especially if you're talking a short wheel base like a TJ, due to having to add the cost of a slip yoke eliminator and a new rear driveline. For a streetable vehicle, a 4-link (5 with track bar) front and triangulated 4-link rear provides the best travel and driveability.
I’m a very non Mechanical, you explained that very well.
Shopping around for my JKU 2018 with 35 inch tires not for a long arm. I am presently looking at the Rubicon Express 4.5 inch RE7144m lift kit with 8 adjustable arms with the RE monotube shocks or also contemplating buying the TeraFlex TER 1451401 4 inch lift with VSS 9550 shocks and 8 Alpine adjustable arms. So far I found the RE being 900$ less. Which one would you recommend ?
I have no real expertise with after market lift kits so I couldn't give a good recommendation 👊
If you need to make a video on making long arms for a Jeep Cherokee I have the perfect vehicle for you. :)
Thumbs Up Nate… I’ve been debating the Drop Brackets for my 16 JK mostly a Daily Driver… Going to get some now 👍
I've always had trouble with long arms.
My shirt sleeves were always too short.🤣
Just got my first jeep (a jku) and doing research for what I want to do with it. Thanks for the explanation. 👍
I hate my short arm XJ, next lift will be long arms!
I still run short arms on my JK, but I have Rancho front correction brackets and the metalcloak DB3 rear drop brackets. My control arms sit almost flat with a 4 inch lift.
Same length as drive shaft, less walk, less camber/pinion change through travel.
Try pushing a wheel barrow over a bump at a higher angle. Done. Awesome vid.
Great videos! I’m hoping for a highlight video of the road to Sema 2019 and maybe some video of Sema itself. Keep up the good work, thanks.
Thank you!
What bumper is that? Great video. Super easy to understand. Well done
Great video. Im new to the jeep community and trying to do as much research as i can before i upgrade my JL.
Thank you! Glad you found my Channel 👍
don't take this as a jeep hating comment/question because it isn't meant to be. I like Jeeps, but I really like trucks. 10 years in a Lifted s-10 Zr2. not doing that again.. EVER! lol
so the question becomes If a guy is to spend the time/money to convert a jeep to Long travel. why not (for guys like me) just convert a Taco to long travel SA?
It all depends on what kind of rig you enjoy owning. A jeep is nice because you can just buy a long arm off the shelf and more or less bolt it on. But there is a ton of advantages to having an sas truck too. It's all about your wants/needs. 👊
Dude that’s the best description of the geometry behind Jeep coil lifts I’ve ever seen 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks brother 👊
I think leaving pinion angle out of this conversation is a little bit of a let down. Both will have a pinion angle change over a certain ride height range but a short arm will have more change towards the extreme end of travel no matter how well engineered the system is.
Why do you care? Because pinion bearings, drive shaft u joints and CV joints all require a certain angle to stay lubricated. Matters less while offroading but still matters to not min/max out your driveline components through suspension articulation. Unless you don't care about replacing them all the time I guess. :)
This video was excellent but I had to see a few crap ones that popped up ranked higher first to find it. Do yourself a favor and check the SEO ranking of this video man. Thanks for the great video man!
Thank you! I'm trying to make my videos more searchable. I will be looking back at this one now. 👍
This whole video I was like 😯|😦|😧|😮|😲
Hi Nate.
Couple questions as I watch this again:
I'm HUGE pro-long arm as you are and I'm about ready to pull the trigger on (probably) an RE for my LJ build (maybe Clayton again).
Q #1: yours is quite customized, but is it all custom or is there a kit such as RE as the beginnings?
Q #2: as seen at 3:12, your front pinion is pointed slightly higher than your front driveshaft. Not much but it's noticeable. Is this the way the TJ is sitting for the vid or the way you sit normally? If the latter, why?
Cheers. 👍
Well that was a well done video.
Thank you!
Great explanation of long arm vs short arm, definitely worth the watch.
I learned a metric ton from you. Thanks alot.
“Rock or Something”
Excellent!
Thanks buddy 🤘
Sounds like an MRE
@@tay5658 love the instructions 😂
My old Xj had a 4.5 lift on short arms. My new jeep has a 4.5 lift on long arms. I did not by the lift, it was on it, so this is not me speaking to justify the cost, but the long arm drives way better than the short arm.
In your opinion, would something like a IRO short arm kit be alright for minor wheeling? I would love the long arm, but don’t have to money to upgrade. 😂
Everything works lol. You can run what ever you want just understand the consequences of the geometry you are running. You can run a 6" lift on short arms and beat the hell out of it but you sacrifice ride quality, handling, stability and on/off capability. Thanks for watching! Good luck with your build 👍
Dirt Lifestyle just running a 3 inch lift with 32’s, so nothing to crazy. Great content man. I really enjoy your videos!
Sounds like my back first thing in the morning. 01:49
How does a mid arm (Currie) fit into all this? Just middle ground between the two?
You should also do a 3/4 link vs radius arms (Ford/Land Rover disco) as far as wheeling and daily driving video.
Million dollar question: Do I need long arms to go to the mall?? Lol
yes!
she will "appreciate" the better ride.....😉
Lol yup 😁👍
Giddy up then cowboys!! I'm getting some long arms tonight!!
😂😂😂
A long arm kit and 40s are a must😁
Okay so I have decided that this summer (when works at its best) I’m gonna buy another 4x4. I’ve owned three before but sold them when something broke.
Loved off-roading but didn’t know where to start with fix things or preventing things from breaking in the first place.
It’s definitely going to be a project, but I’m going to follow pretty much all your videos. I’d even like to follow along with engine swaps and everything.
I’ve learnt so much from watching your videos already and think it’s time I put it to the test and see what I can do my self.
So if you happen to have read all this, I’d just like to thank you for all the content you post, I genuinely watch every video you post.
Thank you! I really appreciate it! Good luck with the new project 👊
I have the 2 link long arms on my XJ and it's a night and day difference from the short arms. Smooth as silk on the trails & with all my spinal surgeries, the smoother the better, making it where I'm able to now get back out there. Great info and video brother 👍
Currently having lower back herniated disc issues I fully appreciate this comment 💪
What's a zj?
If you gotta ask, you can't afford it.
Lol 😂
The more $$$ you throw at it, the better it gets.
Long arms win!
Nate how you been brother..... its been several years since we worked together ....didn't know you where a jeep guy too, cool vid
I'm good dude. I'm not sure which Robert this is unfortunately. I've worked with quite a few over the years!
@@DirtLifestyle we worked at Holmberg I stole all your parts from the Bass pro job and you were upset with me lol
I need to drive my 05 TJ rubicon about 12 hours on the highway to get to the mountains for trail running and camping. I have an adjustable short arm suspension currently. About 3.5” of lift, 33 tires. It’s torture driving that thing 12 hours on road. Seriously debating a long arm kit simply based on reviews saying it will vastly improve on road handling.
I installed the Metal Cloak 3.5" lift springs with double adjustable short arms, the flex is great and I contacted MC to see if I could just buy the long arms and re use my ends, they adamantly told me after tons of research NOT to go long arm with 3.5" lift, said they have tested it and the cons are worse than the benefits. I still want to go long arm but I question why a company would advise me NOT to give them more money. So for now I am happy to just buy other parts for my jeep. BTW, my jeep drives great, I have fox shocks and currie antirock sway bars along with 35's aired at 28 psi.
Love this video. got a 3 link in my jeep and will never go back to short arms. they take a little bit of getting used to driving with no sway bars but they don't fail to impress people. especially if they look under it and know what they're looking at
Love your channel. I have a TJ with a 4" Skyjacker lift on 33's and a LJU Rubicon with a 4" Skyjacker lift on 37's. I get so much information from your channel. Thank you!
Which one to buy!?!? ('04 Rubicon)
Not sure unfortunately. I don't have alot of experience with aftermarket lift kits. I would do a ton of research and go with one that has a good reputation in the industry. 👍