Reg, how do you balance your description of entering a 30 limit getting maximum progress, with the Associate demonstrating excellent Acceleration Sense?
I can understand a police officer or emergency service vehicle to have the need to make progress if going somewhere to an incident and urgency in a necessity but on normal traffic patrol duties. Without answering a call there is no need to drive or ride at or close to the speed limit . Give full stopping distance or more and follow that or those other vehicles. I have heard and seen instructors say that the safest position to be in is at the front of the queue and not meandering behind it. That may mean that one should then overtake say 9 or 19 other vehicles to be safer at the front and you know as well as I do that is not the case. However when it comes to overtakes that's what may be expected of candidates. That they must show a willingness to overtake no matter what and would fail the test if they didn't overtake. Then if you are travelling at say 60 mph in a 60 limit I have no doubt that you will soon be approaching the rear of another vehicle, of a driver in car who sees it safe to drive at say 50 or 55 mph. Therefore as he is going slower then I have seen instructors overtaking him and as they are always riding as you say up to the limit which is apparently faster than everyone else they are constantly overtaking everyone, all and sundry. If however if they were doing the same speed as others then there would be fewer caching ups and therefore fewer overtakes and it then follows fewer collisions or incidents resulting in deaths and injuries of motorcyclists.
@@JohnnyMQB I have no problem being overtaken and indeed I assist many an overtake by slowing and moving in and indicating. I have the same right as you do to drive at whatever speed I chose which is usually up to but not over the NSL of any road. Also like a lot of road users I observe my speedometer drive by it. The greatest number of road users do the same., That means that when my speedo is showing say 60 mph in a 60 mph limit I am actually doing slightly less and I am ok with that. Unfortunately, others perhaps like yourself like to drive faster, up to and maybe above the speed limit on overtakes and follow the speeds on a Sat Nav and so your speed would be higher than mine. So know there are two different speeds on all of our roads, mine and yours. MIne means that I will accept the speeds of other vehicles and their rights to drive at a speed they wish and I will fall back and give safe stopping distance knowing that in general they will turn off or stop further down the road. Your speed however means that you will inevitably end up tailgating until you can overtake and that is a danger to you and to me and to all other road users. Yes you can overtake and you do and you end up continually overtaking every other vehicle in the road because you can and you obviously want or feel the need to. So in a few hours riding you have overtaken say 2 dozen other vehicles and thus create a possible or potential danger all round numerous times over and over again and to what effect. Your ride ends up a few minutes before mine. But mine was much safer and less fraught with potential dangers. Yes I am ex police and police driver trained and I say this with 20 or so years of policing experience and the last 30 years seeing the mistakes that are being made with our motorcycle training. I made this point to the Police Foundation re. their publication, Roadcraft but instead of altering anything in their Manual, they for the first time, in the latest issue of 2020 printed a disclaimer so that they are NOW immune from any prosecution or civil action should anything in their Manual be considered to be wrongful or dangerous and something that could lead to death or injury. Think what you will of that then. All of our present training methods by all interested parties be it the DVSA or IAM or RoSPA etc. are related to that publication. since it was first published in 1937.
@@rcraven1013 yeah I agree with most of your points except from tailgating I always leave a suitable gap until I can see it's clear then overtake,and return back to the speed limit according to my speedo it's a car I've got though not a bike
@@JohnnyMQB Can I then ask and It doesn't matter whether its a car or a bike. If you were originally doing 60 mph and catching up with a slower moving car in front of you just what distance do you give to the rear of that car whilst obtaining all the relevant information prior to an overtake. 50ft. 60ft 70 ft or more. If so what? Just interested. PS. you do admit to going faster than the speed limit as you say returning to it after the overtake.
@rcraven1013 not sure specific distances but enough to clear them without cutting them up, when I'm overtaking I adopt a get past approach with a nice gear usually 3rd due to to many idiots deciding to accelerate when I go to overtake them
Lots of use of Cruise Control. Although I use it a lot in the car I didn't think I'd make much use of it on the bike. Now I've had it for a couple of years, I'm amazed how much use I make of it.
I have been in cars being driven with cruise control on and the driver will drive extremely close up to the rear of a vehicle in front but will not cancel the cruise control or brake. He will be constantly looking in his mirror, behind to see when he is about to be overtaken by another car in the outside lane. Then after that has past they will veer out at the last minute to avoid hitting the car in front. They could have braked but didn't bother as they didn't want to come out of cruise control and by doing so they are placing themselves and others in greater danger. As a police officer I was called to a number of collisions of cars being rear ended or of losing control and sometimes the cause or excuse was that they were in cruise control,
You say .At junctions ride progressively and don't wait till there is a large a gap in traffic. With acceleration we can get out and not disturb other traffic. What is a large gap? anyway. is it 20 or 40 ft or what. What if that traffic is travelling at say 40 mph and only being some 60 ft apart or less, is that a safe gap? If we overtake and then pull in between them, then in doing so we are not now effectively Tailgating the vehicle in front and also now cause ourselves to be Tailgated by the vehicle behind us and that is surely not a safe position to be in. That said it appears that we can no longer give safe distances as most drivers nowadays drive far too close to the vehicle in front and apparently they have no idea of that safe rule, the minimum of a 2 seconds gap, of giving safe stopping or following on distances. However, if they did give safe distances we would still be reducing that safe distance by turning into that considered safe gap. Thus still creating a danger for ourselves and the vehicle in front and behind. If we can overtake and then slow to give safe distance to the vehicle in front, then surely that would cause the vehicle behind to have to slow also brake and is that not driving without reasonable consideration for others. That said we are also told by the H.C. and Roadcraft that if we are say cut in on after being overtaken or pulled out on then we should slow and regain that safe following on distance that we had before.
At 7.00 Reg talks about an advisory speed limit on a bend and it recommends 40 mph but that is not mandatory and therefore one can do higher than that if one wants. He doesn't even slow, he goes round it at 50 mph. However if one looks at the right hand bend we will see that prior to and actually on the bend on the nearside there is a junction on his side on that bend. It's obvious that at some time someone has come to grief going too fast along the straight just prior to that bend and another vehicle has entered that road from out of that junction and some incident or incidents have occurred. So should we slow and do 40 mph?. perhaps we should. They don't put advisories up for no good reason but as he did if you can't seen why or anything of danger should you still ride it at a higher speed. You be the judge of that. As he says he can and did do it at 50 mph with no problem but if a vehicle was emerging at that junction would he be saying that at all.
That junction is where National Cycle Route 91 joins the road he is on, hence the advisory limit plate with the cycle warning sign. Reg moves to P2/3 on approach and has an excellent view and once he's 100% sure it's clear resumes P1. All looks good to me.
@@mikeroberts I agree. I mentioned it as many a rider has ridden towards such signs with no intention of slowing and on passing it have believed that all was well because nothing un towards happened. However things at times can be different. At the beginning of this video we see that he is casting quite a long shadow in front of him and that means that the sun is low in the sky and behind him and anything in front turning in from a junction or wanting to turn right in front of him may not have seen him as they are looking directly at him but also into that low sun situation. At this particular junction we see that the sun is casting a shadow to his right but still in front of him. Then we have trees etc that are shielding the sunlight temporarily from the road. If it was at some other time in the day, its possible that he would then have the full sun behind him and then the trees to his left would not have had any shielding effect on that part of the road s it would be in full sunlight. Anyone wishing to come out of that nearside junction would not only have to strain their necks to turn round and look in his direction but if they did they would again be looking fully into the sunlight and thus not see him approaching even with lights on they could not see them against the powerful light of the sun. That's the point I wished to make that at different times, different situations can occur and under those circs. it would have be pertinent to slow accordingly. In fact apart from a change of position to p.3. he didn't slow at all on that approach, then on seeing the junction to his nearside being clear he continued on at a higher speed as if there were no potential danger at all. That fact that there was no danger at that time is really not relevant. at all He should have anticipated the possibility of something being at that nearside junction. According to advanced riding its not just seeing a danger its also anticipating that there may be one. That anticipation can help keep us alive.
One also notices as one gets closer that that there is little or no angle for the oncoming road and they have increased the run on to it with elongated give way road markings and that is not good at all That slip road is about 100 metres long, reducing in width all the way tapering off and it stretches all the way round the right hand bend so its ripe for an accident just waiting to happen. As now the A666 is out into the country and topping a rise, the sunlight can easily be in the eyes of anything traffic coming out of that side road and of any vehicle being driven round that bend coming the other way. The junction is with Stones Bank road. and in the last few years there has been two accidents, one serious the other slight at or around this junction. The slip lane could lead others to fail to slow sufficiently but to carry on that slip road which filters directly into the main road and that in itself is an increased danger.
@@mikeroberts Not only is that junction dangerous due to the slip road running on the nearside and for some length. That could encourage some drivers to use it and not to slow and lose speed as they should. Vehicles coming the other way are just about visible after rounding that bend and some could be stopped, intending to turn right and against oncoming traffic. Indeed on their side there is not only a recommended 40 mph sign but also a warning of traffic ques as at peak and times some drivers want to turn right and down that side road and toward Belmont village. It is a well known rat run. If drivers are not careful and slower round that bend they may be met by a vehicle or vehicles So there could be a queue of vehicles waiting on that bend and that may lead to problems on the far side of the blind bend which would be out of sight.
If you exceed the speed limit just once when overtaking another vehicle its a fail , no questions and no excuses. What if we go say one or two mph above the speed limits and with that speed showing on our speedometers knowing that they are incorrect. Would that be allowed. All or most speedometers being incorrect. All designed to register more than our actual real speed. by a margin of about 10 %. I know on my machine that if I am doing 32 mph. I am doing 28 mph by all those smiling faces I pass.
Shows how out of date this stuff is. Far safer to exceed speed limit temporarily whilst overtaking. The speed limits have been in force for 60 plus yrs utterly mad
Seems pretty stupid to not slow down slowly before a 30mph speed limit, but instead to require a sharp breaking and quick speed change. That's less safe. Are we in a rush to get somewhere and save those 1-3 seconds of time? Makes no sense to me. The same as to accelerate quickly to national speed limit. The point should be to do things steadily and not fast. It's not a race track after all.
I like that comment immensely "Don't involve yourself in everyone else's cockups". Excellent. Thanks
Reg.
Reg, how do you balance your description of entering a 30 limit getting maximum progress, with the Associate demonstrating excellent Acceleration Sense?
Excellent explanation, thanks for your videos which I seem to be bingeing today.
I can understand a police officer or emergency service vehicle to have the need to make progress if going somewhere to an incident and urgency in a necessity but on normal traffic patrol duties. Without answering a call there is no need to drive or ride at or close to the speed limit . Give full stopping distance or more and follow that or those other vehicles. I have heard and seen instructors say that the safest position to be in is at the front of the queue and not meandering behind it. That may mean that one should then overtake say 9 or 19 other vehicles to be safer at the front and you know as well as I do that is not the case. However when it comes to overtakes that's what may be expected of candidates. That they must show a willingness to overtake no matter what and would fail the test if they didn't overtake.
Then if you are travelling at say 60 mph in a 60 limit I have no doubt that you will soon be approaching the rear of another vehicle, of a driver in car who sees it safe to drive at say 50 or 55 mph. Therefore as he is going slower then I have seen instructors overtaking him and as they are always riding as you say up to the limit which is apparently faster than everyone else they are constantly overtaking everyone, all and sundry. If however if they were doing the same speed as others then there would be fewer caching ups and therefore fewer overtakes and it then follows fewer collisions or incidents resulting in deaths and injuries of motorcyclists.
so basically you dont like being overtook and want to drive under the speed limit
@@JohnnyMQB I have no problem being overtaken and indeed I assist many an overtake by slowing and moving in and indicating. I have the same right as you do to drive at whatever speed I chose which is usually up to but not over the NSL of any road. Also like a lot of road users I observe my speedometer drive by it. The greatest number of road users do the same., That means that when my speedo is showing say 60 mph in a 60 mph limit I am actually doing slightly less and I am ok with that.
Unfortunately, others perhaps like yourself like to drive faster, up to and maybe above the speed limit on overtakes and follow the speeds on a Sat Nav and so your speed would be higher than mine. So know there are two different speeds on all of our roads, mine and yours. MIne means that I will accept the speeds of other vehicles and their rights to drive at a speed they wish and I will fall back and give safe stopping distance knowing that in general they will turn off or stop further down the road. Your speed however means that you will inevitably end up tailgating until you can overtake and that is a danger to you and to me and to all other road users.
Yes you can overtake and you do and you end up continually overtaking every other vehicle in the road because you can and you obviously want or feel the need to. So in a few hours riding you have overtaken say 2 dozen other vehicles and thus create a possible or potential danger all round numerous times over and over again and to what effect. Your ride ends up a few minutes before mine. But mine was much safer and less fraught with potential dangers.
Yes I am ex police and police driver trained and I say this with 20 or so years of policing experience and the last 30 years seeing the mistakes that are being made with our motorcycle training.
I made this point to the Police Foundation re. their publication, Roadcraft but instead of altering anything in their Manual, they for the first time, in the latest issue of 2020 printed a disclaimer so that they are NOW immune from any prosecution or civil action should anything in their Manual be considered to be wrongful or dangerous and something that could lead to death or injury.
Think what you will of that then. All of our present training methods by all interested parties be it the DVSA or IAM or RoSPA etc. are related to that publication. since it was first published in 1937.
@@rcraven1013 yeah I agree with most of your points except from tailgating I always leave a suitable gap until I can see it's clear then overtake,and return back to the speed limit according to my speedo it's a car I've got though not a bike
@@JohnnyMQB Can I then ask and It doesn't matter whether its a car or a bike. If you were originally doing 60 mph and catching up with a slower moving car in front of you just what distance do you give to the rear of that car whilst obtaining all the relevant information prior to an overtake. 50ft. 60ft 70 ft or more. If so what? Just interested.
PS. you do admit to going faster than the speed limit as you say returning to it after the overtake.
@rcraven1013 not sure specific distances but enough to clear them without cutting them up, when I'm overtaking I adopt a get past approach with a nice gear usually 3rd due to to many idiots deciding to accelerate when I go to overtake them
RoSPA test on Thursday so thank you for the timely advice.
Good luck 👍
Great overview of progress and restraint - IAM test on Sunday in sunny Sussex - thanks John - I will have my gumption levers at max
Best of luck!
Super video, and has cleared up what ‘ progress’ is really all about thanks to
Lots of use of Cruise Control. Although I use it a lot in the car I didn't think I'd make much use of it on the bike. Now I've had it for a couple of years, I'm amazed how much use I make of it.
Cruise control the lazy way of driving.
@@rcraven1013 Why is it lazy, anymore than an auto gearbox, or other tech?
I have been in cars being driven with cruise control on and the driver will drive extremely close up to the rear of a vehicle in front but will not cancel the cruise control or brake. He will be constantly looking in his mirror, behind to see when he is about to be overtaken by another car in the outside lane. Then after that has past they will veer out at the last minute to avoid hitting the car in front.
They could have braked but didn't bother as they didn't want to come out of cruise control and by doing so they are placing themselves and others in greater danger.
As a police officer I was called to a number of collisions of cars being rear ended or of losing control and sometimes the cause or excuse was that they were in cruise control,
Great video Reg
Great video, Thanks John
Great video, be great if you could do a motorway one
whats the books called, you should put a link up.
You say .At junctions ride progressively and don't wait till there is a large a gap in traffic. With acceleration we can get out and not disturb other traffic. What is a large gap? anyway. is it 20 or 40 ft or what. What if that traffic is travelling at say 40 mph and only being some 60 ft apart or less, is that a safe gap? If we overtake and then pull in between them, then in doing so we are not now effectively Tailgating the vehicle in front and also now cause ourselves to be Tailgated by the vehicle behind us and that is surely not a safe position to be in.
That said it appears that we can no longer give safe distances as most drivers nowadays drive far too close to the vehicle in front and apparently they have no idea of that safe rule, the minimum of a 2 seconds gap, of giving safe stopping or following on distances.
However, if they did give safe distances we would still be reducing that safe distance by turning into that considered safe gap. Thus still creating a danger for ourselves and the vehicle in front and behind. If we can overtake and then slow to give safe distance to the vehicle in front, then surely that would cause the vehicle behind to have to slow also brake and is that not driving without reasonable consideration for others. That said we are also told by the H.C. and Roadcraft that if we are say cut in on after being overtaken or pulled out on then we should slow and regain that safe following on distance that we had before.
At 7.00 Reg talks about an advisory speed limit on a bend and it recommends 40 mph but that is not mandatory and therefore one can do higher than that if one wants. He doesn't even slow, he goes round it at 50 mph. However if one looks at the right hand bend we will see that prior to and actually on the bend on the nearside there is a junction on his side on that bend. It's obvious that at some time someone has come to grief going too fast along the straight just prior to that bend and another vehicle has entered that road from out of that junction and some incident or incidents have occurred. So should we slow and do 40 mph?. perhaps we should. They don't put advisories up for no good reason but as he did if you can't seen why or anything of danger should you still ride it at a higher speed. You be the judge of that. As he says he can and did do it at 50 mph with no problem but if a vehicle was emerging at that junction would he be saying that at all.
That junction is where National Cycle Route 91 joins the road he is on, hence the advisory limit plate with the cycle warning sign. Reg moves to P2/3 on approach and has an excellent view and once he's 100% sure it's clear resumes P1. All looks good to me.
@@mikeroberts I agree. I mentioned it as many a rider has ridden towards such signs with no intention of slowing and on passing it have believed that all was well because nothing un towards happened. However things at times can be different.
At the beginning of this video we see that he is casting quite a long shadow in front of him and that means that the sun is low in the sky and behind him and anything in front turning in from a junction or wanting to turn right in front of him may not have seen him as they are looking directly at him but also into that low sun situation.
At this particular junction we see that the sun is casting a shadow to his right but still in front of him. Then we have trees etc that are shielding the sunlight temporarily from the road. If it was at some other time in the day, its possible that he would then have the full sun behind him and then the trees to his left would not have had any shielding effect on that part of the road s it would be in full sunlight. Anyone wishing to come out of that nearside junction would not only have to strain their necks to turn round and look in his direction but if they did they would again be looking fully into the sunlight and thus not see him approaching even with lights on they could not see them against the powerful light of the sun.
That's the point I wished to make that at different times, different situations can occur and under those circs. it would have be pertinent to slow accordingly. In fact apart from a change of position to p.3. he didn't slow at all on that approach, then on seeing the junction to his nearside being clear he continued on at a higher speed as if there were no potential danger at all. That fact that there was no danger at that time is really not relevant. at all He should have anticipated the possibility of something being at that nearside junction. According to advanced riding its not just seeing a danger its also anticipating that there may be one. That anticipation can help keep us alive.
One also notices as one gets closer that that there is little or no angle for the oncoming road and they have increased the run on to it with elongated give way road markings and that is not good at all That slip road is about 100 metres long, reducing in width all the way tapering off and it stretches all the way round the right hand bend so its ripe for an accident just waiting to happen. As now the A666 is out into the country and topping a rise, the sunlight can easily be in the eyes of anything traffic coming out of that side road and of any vehicle being driven round that bend coming the other way. The junction is with Stones Bank road. and in the last few years there has been two accidents, one serious the other slight at or around this junction. The slip lane could lead others to fail to slow sufficiently but to carry on that slip road which filters directly into the main road and that in itself is an increased danger.
@@mikeroberts Not only is that junction dangerous due to the slip road running on the nearside and for some length. That could encourage some drivers to use it and not to slow and lose speed as they should.
Vehicles coming the other way are just about visible after rounding that bend and some could be stopped, intending to turn right and against oncoming traffic. Indeed on their side there is not only a recommended 40 mph sign but also a warning of traffic ques as at peak and times some drivers want to turn right and down that side road and toward Belmont village. It is a well known rat run. If drivers are not careful and slower round that bend they may be met by a vehicle or vehicles
So there could be a queue of vehicles waiting on that bend and that may lead to problems on the far side of the blind bend which would be out of sight.
Why do you have your cruise control on in 40, 30 & even 20mph sections, that seems a bit OTT. 🤔
If you exceed the speed limit just once when overtaking another vehicle its a fail , no questions and no excuses. What if we go say one or two mph above the speed limits and with that speed showing on our speedometers knowing that they are incorrect. Would that be allowed. All or most speedometers being incorrect. All designed to register more than our actual real speed. by a margin of about 10 %. I know on my machine that if I am doing 32 mph. I am doing 28 mph by all those smiling faces I pass.
Shows how out of date this stuff is. Far safer to exceed speed limit temporarily whilst overtaking. The speed limits have been in force for 60 plus yrs utterly mad
Seems pretty stupid to not slow down slowly before a 30mph speed limit, but instead to require a sharp breaking and quick speed change. That's less safe. Are we in a rush to get somewhere and save those 1-3 seconds of time? Makes no sense to me. The same as to accelerate quickly to national speed limit. The point should be to do things steadily and not fast. It's not a race track after all.
𝔭𝔯𝔬𝔪𝔬𝔰𝔪 😃