Antidepressants Work (But the Withdrawal Symptoms Are Awful)
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- #bojack #bojackhorseman #drelliott #doctorreacts #psychiatrist #mentalhealth
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This Doctor Reacts episode of Bojack Horseman has been requested A LOT. It's Season 6, Episode 10, called "Good Damage". Its about depression and antidepressants and I talk to you about techniques like cognitive behavioural therapy, SSRIs, antidepressant withdrawals and the impact of depression on friends and family.
Let me know what you think!
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I think the writers did a really good job in making Diane's emotional abuse/neglect at the hands of her family much more nebulous compared to Bojack's, which I think is also a reason she finds it so difficult to find concrete examples of it and why she second-guesses herself about how bad it was. Bojack's parents regretted having him almost immediately, his mother repeatedly told him to his face that he ruined her life and his father subjected him to various tirades and (it's implied) slapped Beatrice around occasionally. Diane's parents wanted kids - they chose to adopt Gary - and what we see of their abuse is that her mother sniffs at her writing career and is annoyed that she doesn't come home, her father told her to let her brothers win at Boggle and blew her off when she asked about her Vietnamese heritage, and both of them let her brothers bully her. It's a different kind of crappy family dynamic, and insidious because it's less overtly abusive.
The subtlety really makes it more realistic too to make up for the lack of depth of which bojacks familial trauma had due to being a consistent major plot in the show.
This episode also reflects the narrative that artists have to suffer to make their art or that their art won't be any good if there isn't pain and strive involved. This is such bs and it is dangerous. I wish it would be understood that art needn't come from a dark place.
Yes! I remember thinking this for the longest time! It wasn’t until I was ~25 when I realized this wasn’t the case.
This episode always made me think of how people think that Van Gogh's psychosis, depression, and overall mental instability wasn't "all that bad" or was somehow "worth it" because it made him such a great artist, when in reality Van Gogh painted Starry Starry Night during a brief moment of clarity while he was looking out the window in the institution he was in, and that one of his famous self-portraits was created as a gift for his mom to reassure her that he was doing okay. Those are only two examples of the times he made something beautiful *in spite* of his suffering, not because of it, and i'm sure there are many more that i didn't mention. So yeah, whoever says that artists need to suffer to make good art can fucking choke on that belief
This is so true. I thought the same thing when I was younger and I thought I couldn't really write well because I never experienced anything horribly traumatic. Except the problem being is that I had but it didn't click that I had been through horrible things. Turns out my writing just wasn't good yet. I really hope this line of thinking changes. It's so detrimental to people's health. I suffered without even realizing I was suffering.
The reality is creativity comes from strong emotions so it's true in a sense that being miserable can spark creativity but so can joy
And mostly being miserable makes it hard to do anything, from painting to getting dressed. If you use all your spoons getting dressed, how can you possibly make art?
So much love to the team behind Bojack for never making a joke about Diane's weight gain or portraying it negatively. Great analysis as always 💕
And it's really interesting to see weight gain as a part of positive character development!
And she stayed heavy and she utterly rocked that blue dress in Nice While It Lasted
@@LauraGrrrr5370 definitely one of my favourite looks of her from the series, think her appearance changed the most through the series (unless you count flashback bojack, in which case its him)
I was so underweight when my depression was at its worst, I was barely over 100lbs. When I started taking antidepressants and seeing a therapist, I gradually gained 50lbs. And it was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I call it my happy fat. I agree, they handled it so well, and it's so common for depressed people to gain weight as they recover.
I think you're the first health care professional (or maybe person) I've heard in my life say that sometimes trauma doesn't have an upside or give someone meaning, that it just sucks. I already know this but it's so validating to hear ❤️ thank you
ya like breaking a bone. It doesn't have any meaning and your joint might be kind of messed up forever but it doesn't have to ruin your whole life. There doesn't always need to be a purpose it can just be something that happened.
Yeah. I don't and never did need my own mental health issues to be a lesson to be learned or part of my growth.
Yes, I was once assessed by a psychiatrist and he said "trauma?" as he was ticking boxes. I was the rudest, most intrusive question I’ve ever heard, and had nothing to do with my situation
12:40 is my favourite moment in the whole show. This video cuts the clip slightly early but that interaction between Diane and her character never fails to make me cry. The visual of Ivy glowing while Diane turns more and more into a scribble breaks my heart everytime.
Diane: It's not that easy
Ivy:... Yeah, I know... but wouldnt it be nice if it was?
It is a great visual interaction
also my tear jerk moment for the ep
I'm writing a paper on Diane and her relationship with depression at the moment and oh my god this video could not have come out at a better time
I’m interested in reading when you finish the paper!
@@QueenCloveroftheice me too me too !!!! (if u want to share it ofc)
i love how they made diane’s weight gain something that……..just happens. she ends the series heavier AND happier
Does that mean I have to gain weight to be happy?
I find Diane and Princess Carolyn's conversation at the end of Good Damage to be the other side of the coin to Todd and BoJack's from It's You (Season 3, Episode 10) - namely, that BoJack is all the things that are wrong with him. Both characters use their history of trauma as tools to avoid having to be responsible for their own happiness, often at the expense of the happiness of other people in their lives. In The Face of Depression (Season 6, Episode 7), Diane confesses to BoJack a pretty similar sentiment to what he expressed to her prior to going into rehab. They're both concerned that after addressing their most obvious struggles (depression, substance abuse, anxiety), they'll still find themselves as terrible, empty people, just without excuses. And this scares them away from wanting to take accountability to seek help. Good Damage gives us a strong indication that Diane is going to be able to continue to work on her own mental health and happiness when her depression is no longer consuming all of her mental and emotional bandwidth.
I've had people tell me I'm creative because of my mental illness. Nah, I'm not. I'm creative because of who I am. My illness doesn't define me. It's insulting, to be honest. Like you're not creative when you're not sick, so just accept it! But when I'm experiencing symptoms the creativity becomes muddled. I hate when people perpetuate the idea that mental illness makes you a good person. No, YOU make you a good person.
13:25 -14:01 This was my favorite part of the episode. Diane's viewing her damage as an equivalent exchange (insert Fullmetal Alchemist joke here). She was deprived of a good childhood because of her abusive family, so she feels there has to be good directly connected to the bad childhood she got instead so its existence is justified. She wants her damage to have a reason to be there instead of just being there. Otherwise, Diane is left with no choice but to accept a cruel reality: that something as simple as the whim of a single jerk or group of jerks with no special reason for being that way can derail someone's entire life. That's the kind of realization that can send someone into a nihilistic doom spiral. "Why bother striving for anything if it can all be ruined so easily? Why act as though anything matters?" Fortunately, Princess Carolyn is there to stop Diane from getting to that point. By encouraging Diane to write Ivy Tran: Food Court Detective, she encourages her to mourn the life she could've had and attain closure for it while still making little girls like her feel less alone. Ivy Tran gets to be for little girls what Horsin' Around was for Diane: a home that helps them survive their sad childhoods. Just like BoJack, millions of people will be better off for having known Diane.
I was kinda bummed out that he skipped on princess Carolyn’s reply. This episode and Diane’s speech and creative pressure at the end was exactly something I experienced and still do (but better now). It was such a comforting affirmation that something simple and childish and light could provide that respite from a hard life or help those in the same situation.
“Maybe this book will do that too” is something Diane missed. While she so desperately wanted to articulate her trauma and childhood in a way to do good, she didn’t notice that Horsin’ Around, a lighthearted family sitcom, was what pulled her through her home life. It wasn’t something serious or a deep autobiography, it was a fun tv show. I felt like my head had been pulled out of tar when I heard and understood that
To any writers out there looking for their Ivy Tran, she comes to you not vice versa. I came up with the idea for the story I am writing now when I was in the pits of depression but could only get it coherently on paper with goofberries
Story Time: And maybe it wasn't my place to step in, but... I was having a conversation with an anti-therapy/anti-pharma person. They confessed that they suffered from anxiety and depression and strictly avoided therapy and drugs because it made them feel "like they weren't the same person." I explained that that makes sense. What many of us consider "us" is happening in the brain, depression and anxiety happens in the brain, and if depression and axiety has always been a part of you, you literally are becoming a different person. Your personality whether your mental health is based on a trauma responce or not includes everything that's going on with you. And if all you can remember is the you with anxiety and depression, you are about to find out who you are without it, and you might not recognize it. I asked if they felt better with therapy and drugs, and they admitted they did. I asked did they like being the person on drugs and therapy, or the person stressed and deflated all the time. They admitted the former.
I'm not sure how permenant this change of mind was for them, but she said, that if her doctors explained it to them this way instead of dismissing her concerns, they might have never gone off the drugs or stopped going to therapy. This conversation was constantly going through my mind as I was watching this episode. I was able to predict what was going to happen, because I was able to have that conversation with someone going through something similar.
The way Diane holds up the Antidepressants everytime is a nod to the 90s Mentos commercials
Yes! My original counsellor found it hard to understand my depression because I had no trauma (I actually did have trauma but didn't recognise it at the time) and also thought I was positive because I said I had had a good life (which was just acknowledging privilege and recognising others around me had to go through hardships I hadn't). Also when I eventually told her I was suicidal just to get her to take me seriously she asked why I felt that way. There was no reason other than I was ill! I know this is not the case for everyone but at that point in my life my depression was very much biological rather than environmental (and at least somewhat probably linked to undiagnosed ADHD). She did not seem to get that at all.
I can relate so hard
It's wild anyone would think it couldn't come from not having trauma. So many women report terrible mental health from PMS. I will literally get a day where I think I have no friends and I'm bad at everything and suck at my job and that no one likes me and it's literally just my period. If such a minor, completely natural, hormonal change can make such a huge difference it's no wonder that people could have all sorts of reasons for poor mental health.
The "trauma hunting" tendencies of many therapists is one of the reasons I finally decided to pursue an ASD diagnosis. Though I was able to get something out of therapy, I always felt there was a huge part of me that was never addressed and always being explained away with trauma. And what trauma I have had is mostly directly from my being Autistic anyway. It's still been difficult to find a therapist though who can adequately address my particular needs.
It just hit me that Diane wants to write her trauma book because of her low self-esteem and wish for validation - writing that book basically lays bare her deepest hurts and exposes her, makes her intensely vulnerable, something she has completely refused to be. To do that and be validated by readers (the way a writer who writes those sorts of things pretty much always is) would validate her experiences of being abused and validate her worth.
This is probably also the exact reason she CAN’T write that book, no matter how much she tries.
I cried during this episode so much, because I could relate to Diane completely. I felt exactly the same way even with the writing part. I wrote the best poems when I was depressed and when I felt better I questioned whether I should stop taking my pills to be more creative again. My mum always had to remind me how horrible I felt and that it's not worth it. I felt worthless when I was depressed but even long after I started taking my meds. I also didn't go through any trauma, we just have depression in my family, so when my first psychiatrist tried to get to the trauma that "I must've experienced", it made me feel invalidated and even more like an imposter, because I felt like I had no reason to be depressed. Needless to say I had to change psychiatrists a couple of times to find one who didn't push trauma on me and understood there doesn't need to be any trauma for a person to suffer from depression. I am doing so much better now but it took many many years on meds to get where I am today. Thanks for making these videos, they are so helpful for many people!
One time a while back my pharmacy somehow kept forgetting to refill one of my meds even though I’d ask them daily. I went two weeks without it and it was horrible. Finally my mom (who uses the same pharmacy) went in person while picking up her own meds and told them how miserable I was.
They refilled it 10 mins later. They had it the whole time while I was changing my sheets every other night from sweating so much and had insomnia. My doctor is still baffled how it happened because he called them too!
I knew studying mental health nursing would come in clutch at some point! 😂 Fluoxetine, citalopram, and sertraline come to mind on the top of my head
I started singing the song from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend when I read your comment lol
@@QueenCloveroftheice 😂😂😂 love it
It's a bit off topic but I loved how Diane's weight gain was portrayed in the show. People say fatphobia isn't an issue or even doesn't exist when it's a fact that getting fat is so vilified in our society A LOT of people would rather refuse medication than risk putting on weight. By the end of the show I couldn't believe they actually dared to not only increase her size when she started treatment but made her body stay like that for good. It's difficult to explain but I think it's because of this weird attitude towards getting fat that mainstream media maintains. On the one hand, getting fat is the worst thing but on the other hand, denying yourself good things out of fear of getting fat is just as bad. As if that fear was utterly ridiculous and entirely unfounded.
So in a typical narrative Diane would hesitate to start treatment like she did, quoting the fact that in the past medication made her put on weight. And Guy would try to convince her it doesn't matter because frankly what is some weight-gain compared to improved mental health? And than DIane would start taking meds and stay as thin as she was before. Because in a typical narrative doesn't allow for a weight gain in a story about improvement. As if fat body was cancelling out every other good thing. Which I guess for many people it does.
Yep. A writer, who was a teacher a few decades ago, tried to prove a point by asking her college class if they would choose to have a chronic disease if it meant they would stay thin the rest of their life thinking they wouldn't choose the illness ... wasn't she surprised.
I wasn't surprised 🙄
@@lkf8799 Yeah, not surprised either. Surprised anyone expected a different outcome.
fatphobia is WILD and only getting more and more out of control with the internet. I'm now seeing so many people just worried about peoples "health" and how they don't wanna date someone who will die young. It's like don't you know fat people? I know so many people who were overweight for the large portion of their adulthood and they all have lived normal length lives. Maybe it made a difference between living to 87 vs. living to 92 but people are acting like overweight people are up and dying at 55 years old or some bs.
@@new0news Oh, don't even let me start on discusting attempts to frame fatphobia as a concern for anyone's health :/ Firstly, why does a person even needs to be healthy to be deserving of basic respect. Secondly, sorry, you can't tell person's health by their appearance. Thirdly, if fat person has health issues how do you know how much of that is due to fat alone, how much due to other issues, and how much due to, say, fear of medication that can make them put on weight even more? Or the fact that a medical professional refused treatment until they lose weight? Or unhealthy eating habits that they picked up in desperate attempt to lose weight at all cost? Or just pure goddamned stress caused by being treated like garbage?
@@bialyniawell, you can tell if someone’s unhealthy by their appearance sometimes. You just can’t tell if someone is healthy purely by their appearance
Thank you so much about the TRAUMA part. I feel like everyone wants to prove themselves and others they had some sort of trauma in their life,its almost as if it's a "trend"
That conversation between Diane and Princess Carolyn is my favourite moment in the series.
I can totally relate to the idea of believing in good damage. Turning the shit you went through when you were younger into something positive but it you can never do so, so you still feel like you're stuck with all that damage.
It took this video for me to realize in the montage, Diane passes by a rat race.
Diane's antidepressant arc was my favorite in the show. It was very relatable. Love that you pinpoint that trauma isn't the only and not always the main source of mental health issues.
Thanks for covering this episode! It was great to hear your thoughts on it. Also good to hear that not everything in therapy needs to be based on trauma. And glad to know my therapist isn't trauma hunting, sad that others do. Guy is such a good boyfriend for Diane, I love him. This episode hit me a lot cause I thought I needed my trauma to make some art out of it to make it meaningful, but it doesn't. Trauma is just trauma, and mental illness can happen with or without trauma.
I hope to see you react to the first few s6 eps of Bojack, especially the ones that feature Dr. Champ
Vortioxetine (Trintellix in the US) is the first antidepressant that addressed nearly all of my depression and I had even stopped taking stimulant medication for my ADHD with no issue. Unfortunately I lost my insurance and was hit with a $2000 bill when I tried to fill my script. I had a doctor who was giving me samples for about a year but he retired. Add that to the long list of how our healthcare system fails.
I absolutely love the way you phrased things when discussing the lack of evidence base for lowered attention span on SSRIs to back up patients' VERY REAL EXPERIENCE !!! I've encountered way too many doctors that discount real, lived experiences by saying that "oh this doesn't cause this" instead of acknowledging that it is an issue and trying to find the route of the problem
This episode is what got me to finally start antidepressants and they have helped a lot.
I’ll do you one better
🎶 Flu-oxetine, flu-oxetine 🎶
🎶 Par-oxetine, par-oxetine 🎶
🎶 cit-alopram, cit-alopram 🎶
🎶 Take once A Day! 🎶
Yaaaas (love crazy ex)
@@DoctorElliottCarthy then react to the entire series
(Please 🥺)
Mirtazapine
Thank you so much for covering this doctor! Its a hard one for me to really get into how much it means as its rather emotionally taxing to talk about, but ya thank you! ❤
Also we don’t know how long it’s been since Diane started taking antidepressants
Antidepressants I’ve been prescribed include citalopram, escitalopram, abilify/lamotrigine/seroquel/latuda (more mood stabilizers but ya know), sertraline, and effexor before settling on a combo of bupropion + fluoxetine (+ a couple other meds) which I’ve been on for like 7 years without changes-so don’t give up my friends!! It takes a lot of trial and error but I’ve been stable on my current regimen now for longer than I had to spend experimenting-life is good! Don’t let fear-mongering about meds hold you back, if a med isn’t working for you after 3-6 weeks then you have more info and can just discontinue it, it won’t fuck you up forever.
Dr. Carthy, I love when you speak about Bojack. I am ALWAYS here for it.
Prozac, Zoloft, wellbutrin, trazodone, effexor, celexa, buspar, lamictal (I dont if that counts since it’s a mood stabilizer), abilify (I don’t know if that counts since it’s an atypical antipsychotic)
You're just showing off now 😉
Thank you for addressing trauma hunting. I’ve had a depressive disorder for most of my life. At least in my experience there is a deep impulse and need to justify your depression by citing some trauma. If there is no trauma… you make up something to be traumatized about. It is only when I accepted that my brain chemistry was off and while I had trauma, that wasn’t the only thing at play that I started to get better. Hunting for trauma is a needed part of a mental health journey, but it can’t be the only part.
Thank you, Dr Carthy! I’ve been coming to terms on things about myself alone and this helps me process it. Some days are pretty good, some days are dark, but I always find myself pulling back from the edge because of good, kind, caring people like you. Thank you, and know you’re making a difference to people, I speak to that.
Venlafaxine, bupropion, Lexapro, Fluoxetine, duloxetine 👍
👍
Thanks for analyzing this show! I really appreciate it as a Bojack Horseman fan who wants to do psychiatry!
Thank you for the amazing videos, I am always glad when they pop up in my feed. Diane trying to find meaning in her trauma and feeling like she had to use it for something good really resonated with me. I am still somewhat coming to terms with bad things somes just being bad. It was really nice to have some more input onto this episode. :)
Dude, I'm only in the fifth minute of your video but I already appreciate so much your thoroughness and adherence to empiric evidence, while not disregarding the wider on going debates in the scientific-medical-academic community. I really really really appreciate that. Thank you!!!!
what u said at 12:02 was so good, thank you. i think loved ones of ppl with mental illnesses can struggle, because we want to support, we want to do it right... AND sometimes providing that support can be hard. but then you can feel guilty for thinking it's hard, or for "making it about you." it's a strange mix of emotions. all of which to say, i think loved ones of people with mental illnesses need to make sure they have a support network, too.
As someone with treatment resistant depression I've already been on over 5 different antidepressant medications and I have a list:
1. Escitalopram
2. Trazodone
3. Sertraline
4. Fluoxetine
5. Bupropion
6. Duloxetine
7. Amitriptyline (actually responded well to this one, however it only lasted a little over a year)
8. Clomipramine (nothing yet but it's early)
When I was in college we used to tell the joke, "why does it take 4 weeks for antidepressants to kick in? Because that's how long it takes to get over the meeting with your psychiatrist. " (If you wonder how mental health care is in the US, this was a pretty much universally understood joke regardless of demographic.) I remember i did learn from one pill shrink that antidepressants lower your alcohol tolerance. He was explaining it to me and then mentioned that maybe taking and paying for antidepressants and therapy only to drink a depressant wasn't such a smart idea. (Psychiatrists must love dumb college students. How many times did he have to explain that in his career?) Oh, I only know brand names but Effexor, Paxil, Celexa, Prozac, Zoloft, Lexapro.
Please never stop making Bojack content, I love it sm
I'm on antidepressants, have been for a while now and although my GP often asks me if I want to start weaning off them I keep telling him no as the stressors in my life that made my depression worse are still there. Psychotherapy isn't really an option in New Zealand, I got 4 funded appointments with a counsellor when I was at my worst, but beyond that, I'd have to pay for it myself and I'm barely paying my bills as it is.
I'm blessed in that I have a cat who checks up on me though, especially if she thinks I'm up too late at night. I've started calling her my emotional support animal and I'll fight the idea of giving her up for the sake of housing.
I 100% agree with the advice you gave to therapists. The first three therapists I talked to delved straight into the trauma part of me/my life before even discussing what I’ve been struggling with, and it didn’t help at all, it just made me feel like crap. And then, after many weeks and hours of being told I HAD to reopen old wounds and tell them everything “or else they can’t help me”, they all just dropped me. 2 of them didn’t even give me a referral to anywhere and ignored my messages, the last one just told me to go on the CAHMS waiting list. It made me feel like I was doing therapy wrong. But then I found a new therapist that did exactly what you said to do, and she really helped me. Xx
This is very true. Had a call with a relative where she told us that trauma is there to make you stronger. It is like a stumbling block or a hurdle to get over. (and then told us we were manipulating her by informing her that her brother abused us, but this is besides the point). I HATE this narrative. It makes me feel like all of my suffering and crying and hopelessness was irrelevant so long as I "Got stronger" From it. I did NOT get stronger. I live every day afraid to leave our house, holding tightly to my boyfriend, because I think everything will be taken away from me and I will be hurt again. I have cried myself asleep because I am afraid our abuser will somehow find us because we know he knows what city we are near. I have felt CRAZY for that because this is not a logical thing to think!
My childhood was stolen from me. I was hurt and then told it was all my fault. and NONE of that was so I could be a "strong person" later in life. it just hurt and I am trying so hard to heal but it is like drowning in quicksand. I understand that some people feel this way. My boyfriend smiles at his scars because he knows he overcame the people who hurt him. But it makes me feel so much worse for still being *bad* and not "strong". -- Wynn // Trauma holder
I can't name more than three, just the three i've tried xD Fluoxetine, Sertraline, and Bupropion. Idk if I spelt them right lmao. Love the video, your insight, and your personality
I was prescribed a SSRI medicine to treat my depression and I did take them for a very long time. But all of a sudden in 2020 I just decided I didn't wanna take them anymore and just kinda stopped without telling my doctor, I later found out that apparently just stopping taking SSRI's cold turkey can be dangerous, now I don't know how much truth there is to that as my Dr stopped working at my mental health clinic and I never got a new one and was instead just off-loaded onto a mental health nurse for talks. But I don't think I ever experienced any of the withdrawals as I remember feeling a lot better, although my understanding after doing it is that I must have gotten insanely lucky
This episode never ceases to resonate so powerfully with myself. I myself am diagnosed of primarily obsessive OCD, and just like the books tell, it easily gets comorbid with depression. I always tell friends and my own treating physicians that the obsessive thoughts just exhaust my capacity to be positive.
I remember after starting to take fluoxetine and undergo cognitive-behavioural thearpy, I gradually became the person I knew I could be, and I felt like the horribly aggresive hold obsession and depression had on me were lifted off and I am now usually considered a cheery person, whereas before that I had been spiraling into darkness so slow but consistently that me having "a black cloud over my head" became a sort of inside-joke among my friends. Yet, the realization that all that trauma and anxiety one has endured before just does not have any concrete meaning at all, and it's just sort of there... can be so frustrating and even angering... But once that initial grief is dealt with (you have to say goodbye to your idealized suffering self), it can be absolutely freeing. I now consider myself an adherent of Absurdism (à la Albert Camus), and even though it may seem just nihilist at first glance, it just makes me see the world with wonder and try to enjoy all that I can get for myself in this big, incomprehensible, absurd world where we have no actual control of almost anything (too bad, OCD, too bad...).
Whenever I see this episode of Bojack Horseman and I see how Diane ends up happier, and accompanied by her wonderful significant other... I feel so relieved for her, and seeing myself in her, I cannot help but feel relief for myself, gratitude for my own Guy (my husband, whom I absolute love and who has endured so much by helping me) and for the wonderful professionals I have the privilege of counting on and for living in an age where antidepressants, even with their side-effects and limitations, have contributed to actually save my life.
I'm really loving this video and learning more about this. My doctors never explained to me how withdrawals with the medication worked which is especially odd because I was in a rehab at the time. You'd think they'd explain that to you but they didn't but luckily my dad told me about them when I updated him on what I was on. But I'm so bad at taking medication after taking it as prescribed for a few months I just stopped taking it and got these horrible brain jolts or something. It felt like my brain and eyes were shaking. It was horrible. 0/10 never again. Now I just take it with my Keppra that I have to take so now I have no excuses to forget.
- I thought that little vid of her singing and happy on the pills were after being on them a while as she is shown to have gained weight which was from a common side affect of many anti depressants. wasn't her weight gain supposed to be from the meds or did I misread that part of the show? I thought it was good of them to show one of the issues that girls have with addressing mental health, which is a lot of hte meds can make you blow up a bit as it were.
Fluoxatine, peroxatine, cytalopram... oh dang, those are the only ones I remember from Crazy Ex Girlfriend.
I live for your analysis of bojack horseman
Check out Johnny2Cellos. He does really good analysis videos on the show. Also the channel Imon_Snow did amazing reaction videos to the series and talk 15-30min after. So good.
I don´t know where exactly but I read a fan's comment about how Diane wanted to write her book of essays for other girls like her. Still, she forgot that when she was a girl and felt lonely, she didn´t feel better because of a complex book about trauma, but found relief and joy in a "silly" fun comedy show, so actually her book about the girl detective is going to accomplish what she wanted since the beginning as it did later with the son of her boyfriend....
When I read it, it clicked so much inside of me...because I also once was a little girl who felt lonely and what made me feel better was the Dork Diaries, a silly fun book about a teenage girl and her life so... yeah, I guess it's beautiful how that kind of stories can comfort us in such a deep level.
I wish my doctor had told me about withdrawal symptoms if going off Zoloft, It was awful. Also I must point, another important reason why many people resist to medication is way simpler than any prejudice: it's monetary. This kind of meds are extremely expensive, not everyone has access to this kind of stuff. And although I can admit antidepressants had helped me a lot, there is also a huge money-driven industry behind them, it would be naive to trust this pharmaceutical industries because the main interest of them is not the well being of people, it's just money. So I do believe everything involving meds must always be taken with a pinch of salt.
Desipramine, Prozac, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Lithium, Abilify, Lamotrigine, Tranylcipromine Sulfate. and my favorite: carbohydrates.
the thing w ssri's and weight gain imo though is just that doctors need to listen to patients reporting those side effects
I had a really fast metabolism my whole life, was underweight literally forever and doctors trying to put me on weight gain diets as a kid had done absolutely nothing
after starting ssri's, I gained about 60-70lbs in about a year, taking me from being underweight straight to being overweight. the appetite change was horrendous too, really quickly after eating I'd be so hungry again that it was painful, when I tried dieting nothing happened either
the doctor I told this to immediately blew me off and told me that they don't cause weight gain at all and basically that it was just my own fault
SSRIs: Lexapro (escitalopram), Paroxetine, Fluoxetine
SNRI: Pristiq (Desvenlafaxine)
Wellbutrin (Bupropion) - NDRI (I had to look that 1 up)
Bojack season 6 has some of the hardest most real moments I've seen in a show. I really hope to one day hear your thoughts of "The View From Halfway Down"
I remember seeing that episode and having to walk away and digest. And after climbing the existential hill that it caused it ended up being my favorite episode of the whole show. Anyway, love the content, have a great day 🤭
escitalopram, sertraline, quetiapine, fluoxetine... etc, everything that does't work for me
5:20 to 5:50 - I think I get what they're going for here. What they're referring to when Diane talks about pottery put back together with gold is kintsugi, and it's kind of interesting how she took the meaning of that to be "good damage", because in Japan, that's not what kintsugi represents. It represents that damage, even shattering damage, doesn't destroy you entirely. The bowl can still be a bowl, with help. In a way, it's like how my meds help me get myself back together mentally after bad things that have happened. I think what the show is aiming for is showing how Diane's mind works. She doesn't see the bowl put back together with gold as the bowl being helped by gold, she instead focuses on the fact that it was damaged previously. She wants to acknowledge her pain and abuse, yet she can't, because she hesitates to validate her own feelings and experiences. Instead she views herself as a repaired bowl that is stronger for having been broken, and while it's true some kintsugi pottery pieces are stronger than their originals, that's actually not true for the majority of them. Many kintsugi pieces are just restored to being as good as they were prior to breaking. Being hurt didn't make Diane better or stronger... but it says a lot about her as a person that she focuses on the minority of kintsugi pieces that are better for having been damaged instead of admitting maybe, damage didn't make her stronger or weaker, it just hurt.
Acknowledging you're hurt is scary. It's not just about the fact her abuse is harder for her to view as valid. It's an intimidating thing to admit that, like about 20% of kintsugi pieces, being hurt may have left you worse off than before you were hurt, less stable, less capable of dealing with heavy things. Once you've admitted that, even to yourself, it can feel like you've admitted to failing (why aren't you in the 20% of kintsugi that are stronger for having been broken? is it something you did? are you not trying hard enough?). That much emotional vulnerability is incredibly difficult. On the other side of things, telling yourself you're stronger for what happened to you gives you a sense of power over it. That way, you came out on top, you succeeded, you're victorious. It's a line of thinking that doesn't acknowledge that 1., you should never have been put in the battle in the first place and 2., survival is a form of victory. You're here and that is in and of itself a great thing. But because she doesn't see it that way, she cannot accept that maybe, she's in the 60% of kintsugi that is no better or worse for having been hurt and is simply here. The idea things don't happen for a reason, they just happen? A lot of people cannot deal with that. So you tell yourself instead that the trauma made you better. It's good damage. It's a lie, obviously, but it's a self-soothing lie, and I don't think any less of Diane for telling herself that. We all go through a process as we work towards healing and sometimes a step of that process is denial. It took my dad decades before he admitted that his pain didn't make him his best self, it just made him miserable. Mental health is a struggle.
Do you want more than 3 different brand names or types.
Types
MAOIs
Tryciclics (amytriptaline)
SSRIs (Lexapro, Zoloft, Paxil, Prozac)
SNRIs (Cymbalta)
Others like Welbutrin, Seroquil, I'm not sure where they fit
Oh, Trazadone! That's a SAR, I think
I’m currently getting back on an ssri (citalopram) after stopping sertraline when I started dexamfetamine for adhd, then eventually realised I need it for help with anxiety and now I am currently experiencing both forms of insomnia you mentioned. I also have had my ADHD traits worsened since to start up citalopram I’ve had to stop vyvanse as starting them so close together was blurring the picture around side effects. So basically I’m not having my adhd treated, not sleeping well, struggling to get out of bed, eat and maintain basic daily tasks this shit sucks. It’s been 18 days and I’ve noticed improvements but having o change to a nighttime dose the last couple days has made it feel even worse ugh.
Also to name 4 antidepressants
Sertraline, Citalopram, Venlafaxine & Mirtazapine.
interestingly enough, when I had a longer anxious period, I had a lot of issues with thoughts, but for me, they were far too disorganized to even be recognized as voices, but instead, to me, just felt like loud static in my head. Really annoying and really exhausting to deal with.
I wasn't aware that BDNF was a suspected mechanism for antidepressants. Increasing the potential for plasticity makes sense.
There's actually some promising work going on right now combining TMS with plastinogens, it'll be interesting to see whether this works out and how the side effects and withdrawals (if there are any) will compare.
Can immediately name venlafaxine, fluoxetine, and sertraline on account of having been there, done that, didn’t work for me. I had the wildly good fortune of having a psychiatrist who realized how important it was to me to be able to think clear. He put me on methylphenidate (adhd meds) and that’s been an absolute lifesaver for me, no antidepressants, no depressions.
I've tried like 6 or 7 different ones. Venlafaxine, Fluoxetine, Nortriptyline are the ones i remember especially good because of the awful headaches. especially Venlafaxine. I was told that it is the least dangerous drug of all but I had the most side effects while taking it. Still don't know how but Aripiprazole helped. It goes against everything i've read and my psychiatrist seemed to be surprised. It was prescribed to me as a mean to deal with psychosis but my depressions became by an order of magnitude less severe.
Citalopram, sertraline, fluoxetine, venlafaxine and ecitalopram are all those I know of the top of my head. (Three I've taken, two friends have taken)
I might haveto start watching this show. Let me give the antidepressants a go: wellbutrin, Lexapro, Prozac and Luvox ( some of these are older ones, I know)
I always think it's interesting that shows like this almost always use ssris. Went on multiple ssris when I was in high school but it unfortunately didnt work. When I went back to therapy they tried to out me on ssris again and finally found something that works (at least more so than the ssris) when I started on snris. Just interesting to me they never explore alternate options for antidepressants
I just wonder if therapy will 'fix' my depression and anxiety or if meds are something I should be looking into. I started therapy only a couple months ago
"It's not that easy."
"...Yeah, I know. But wouldn't it be nice if it was?"
“sometimes bad experiences (…) are just really bad and they just rly rly hurt and there is no good side to them whatsoever. it doesn’t make us better, we were better off without it” -- thank u for all of that sm because in very few small ways am i better off for what i went thru but in many large ways am i worse off for it. i can’t stand the “what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger” motif in regards to trauma
Sometimes when I’m down I think of the sad little dumpling from the Zoloft commercial and it’s silly but also very much how I feel in the moment - like a bouncy blob
She had been going through her issues this entire show but in the last season as she dipped into a valley again it was so great to see her with a man who could work with her through is (Side note I LOVE That he's a bison they're a symbol of endurance and stability.... and well he's a Chicago BULL!) After seeing her in relationships that either brought out her worst or made her put on a show of being happy Guy is Such a GOOD GUY!
Sertraline, mirtazipine, trimipramine, trazadone, clomipramine, duloxetine, amytriptilyne, vortioxitine, buspirone, escitalopram, fluoxetine, venlaflaxine, citalopram,
And they’re just the ones i’ve been on in my lifetime🤦🏻♀️😂
Fab video. You relate to your audience so well.
Such much love 🌟💘
Sertraline, fluoxetina, Escitalopram, citalopram
👍
You should react to the episodes "the view from halfway down" and "the Amelia Earhart story" and also "the showstopper" its amazing how every episode has some underlying story or meaning relating to real life
I have so many thoughts bombarding my mind, that at one point I thought of drilling a hole in it, so at least some of them would fall out. In hindsight that's pretty ridiculous, but at the time it made sense. I wasn't sleeping much.
3 antidepressant categories:
SSRIs
SNRIs
Tricycilics 😁
I am currently doing a really interesting research project into whether it would ever be possible to create a drug that could simulate complete happiness so i am looking into a range of monoamine neurotransmitters, any good reaserch articles you can reccomend on receptors in the brain and synaptic plasticity as i am struggling to find reaserch for this bit ?
I'm bipolar but, fortunately for me, I'm one of the lucky ones who has been hypomanic for the past 30 years. However, I still remember my depressive days. Fortunately, I found an excellent psychiatrist who put me on tricyclics. (BTW, she also caught my stroke.) Tricyclics were the best they had back in the early 80s. At least they weren't MAOIs. They worked wonderfully. Their only drawback was my weight ballooned up to 265 pounds. I craved a pound of chocolate every day. The darker the better. I recently learned dark chocolate has slight mood stabilizing effects.
My doc and I didn't like the weight gain. I was switched to Prozac right after it came out. IMHO it didn't work as well as the old tricyclics. I'd cheerfully saw on my wrist with a dull blade. I also kept the excess weight. It stuck with me until I caught some random bug that was going around and was in bed for a week. I also didn't take my meds. I remembered from my stroke hospitalization that after going without my antidepressants for a week I should have felt depressed. Yet I didn't. Trust me, depression is a miserable sickness. Still, I thought I'd wait and see if I got any weepy spells. I never did. The excess weight also melted away.
(I was also diagnosed with ADHD when I was 29. So my problems are bipolar, ADHD and organic.)
I still talk a mile a minute which is a clear trait of manics. I'm currently on a drug called Abilify. It took my psychiatrist three full sessions to talk me into giving it a try. Over the years I had terrible experiences with GPs who thought they were qualified to treat psych disorders. That's one of the hazards of our broken heath care system here in the US. I had terrible reactions to most of the antipsychotics I was given. Things like itching, drooling, falling down stairs, etc. Anyway, Abilify works beautifully although I think it does make weight loss a bit tougher. But maybe that's just me.
My biggest problem now is my psychiatrist retired and left his practice to a nurse practitioner. I loathe that woman. She's pushy, tells me I'm lying when I report a new symptom, and so on. I wish there was someone else around here I could see for my Abilify and Vyvanse. As things are I say as little as possible to her.
abilify is amazing. it's the only drug that ever worked for me, unfortunately i had to discontinue it due to being one of the unlucky few who developed tardive dyskinesia as a side effect. gone through a lot of drugs since then and never found anything that helped like abilify did.
The camera filter is INTENSE man lol
Trintellex, fluoxetine, Effexor, and sertraline. I figured I'd name some of the antidepressants I've personally taken. I know I'm mixing the brand and generic names, I just remember what I took. Worst part is withdrawal. It feels like my body is buzzing while walking through a bouncy house.
that thing describing mending cracked bowls with gold is called kitsungi which is a japanese idea
citalopram, sertraline and fluoxetine!!
I think you're great. I wish there were more knowledgeable people like you within the NHS and access to good help was easier for people struggling.
Fun fact: after going through fluoxetine, bupropion, trazodone, escitalopram, sertraline, and one other thing I can't remember (none of those worked), my psychiatrist put me on lamotrigine. My mood is much, much better, but I also started making A LOT of typos of a very funny kind - for example clowly instead of slowly, because "c" can be pronounced as "s" in "slowly is, or msall instead of small, because my fingers hit the keys in the wrong order sometimes when I have both of my hands on the keyboard . As in, one very 4 words or so, and I had before like .5% typos made across a text. But hey, it's worth it, even though I am a copywriter/journalist, and it slows my work significantly.
Lamotrigine works beautifully for me too (after going through the ringer with SSRIs)!
One thing I’ve noticed is that my nervous twitches are significantly diminished too, but my reaction time is slightly slower than it used to be. I wonder if it’s something to do with the anticonvulsant aspect of the medicine (it’s prescribed for epilepsy quite a lot) or if it’s just less agitation=less twitching in my case.
Off the top of my head: Duloxetine, mirtazapine, venlafaxine, citalopram, escitslopram, lithium (kind of),switching to name brands now prozac (fluoxetine?), zoloft (sertraline?), paxil, MAOI inhibitors (maybe not what you were after), that older one that phased out wide-scale lobotomy, and bupropion and gabapentin sort-of. Of the SSRIs & SNRIs, I think it’s still true that fluoxetine has the longest half life so missing meds and tapering off is easier, it’s something like 21 days but effexor/venlafaxine is something like 16 hours and is one of if not the shortest half-life; when I was on it it helped me to take an am and pm dose, though the benefits may have been part or all placebo, but my psychiatrist said hey it doesn’t harm you so we might as well try it. Whew.
SSRI,s SNRIS, SNDRIS, MAO inhibitors, trycyclic antidepressants and on and on and on. You could argue opioids are antidepressants. Recent studies have shown buprenorphine as a great antidepressant, by increasing glutamate (I think that's the pharmakodynamics).
Three types of anti-depressants? SSRIs, SNRIs, and tricyclic antidepressants?
Trauma is good for you... I used to cling on to that sentiment, too, and I've been going through exactly the same crisis as Diana (I'm also a writer). I'm not mentioning any names, but I also believe that just because something has been cathartic to write in your diary doesn't mean that it should be published.
YES I’ve been waiting for this one. def one of the most hard hitting bojack episodes
0:46 Fluoxetine (was changed by my general practioner because of my young age (16) and lack of studies in that group), Sertraline (a disaster. Took it in the morning like told and went to school, held a book a presentation while "high" and got really sick), Mirtazapine (made me sleepy and gain weight. hated that and contributed with others factors that I stopped treatment), Escitalopram (after al longer time without any. Made me loose some weight and ended my amenorrhea. Hate the second, but live with it and still take it) . Antidepressants I had, in that order.
I've had added Quetiapine recently, but rather for the obsessive ruminations and other symptoms than the depression. Or I don't quite know, because my depression got much worse and new symptoms (mentioned extreme ruminations, but also heavy dissociations) popped up and I know it is used sometimes to treat severe depressions whilst in fact an antipsychotic. (Also, I did loose wight again, contrary to what many people experience, but with my comorbid eating disorder, things work different. Because I really felt a raise in appetite, but... not going into details)
I'm so curious about that episode, I have an over 20 year long experience in the matter....
Aaaand yes, so painfully relatable.
Wellbutrin, zoloft(sertraline), prozac and for a bonus round for ADHD Strattera and for bipolar(but sometimes also diabetic nerve pain) gabapentin
my one and only experience with SSRIs was Paroxatine and I hated every minute of it. The only thing it did was drag everything down to a "below average standard". I didn't feel any better or worse even after a good few months of regular medication. To be honest, I prefer having the mania/depressive spikes/valleys to everything being one singular flat nothing
Ones I’ve taken: elavil, Wellbutrin, Prozac, cymbalta
fluoxetine, paroxetine, venlafaxine, desvenlafaxine, amitriptylline, etc etc
You get bonus points for the Team America reference!
Escitalopram, Fluoxetine, Paroxetine
Escitalopram and a mix of therapy works wonders for me! Most of my mental illness is trauma, but Lexapro definitely does help “even me out” enough to muck through it with my therapist
I'd love if you reacted to the second to last episode of the show, it's called The View From Halfway Down and it goes through what bojacks brain conjures as he's dying and it's such an powerful episode