I Don't Like the Innova Firebird.
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- Опубликовано: 19 окт 2024
- In today’s video, we’ll be throwing and testing Firebirds and Firebird “Clones” to see which one’s fit the Firebird slot best and where some manufacturers go wrong when trying to replicate the Firebird’s success.
Remember, the flight of a disc is determined by many factors including the player, local conditions and more. Get out and throw discs to find out whether the Flight Numbers Matter or NOT.
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Ok ill say it. Best disc golf testing channel on the tube. If you could someone incorporate a scientific test that will measure grippiness , that'd be just insane. I love how you give us gyroscopitic force nerds our fix.
I would like to see testing using some sort of sling device with controllable speed, spin and (an)hyzer angle inside a huge hall (with steerable wind machine) but I think that's a bit too big wish.
@@McSlobo That beefcake doing the backhands is a sling device.
I love watching this guys videos
I love the flight testing on this channel. Nothing like good ol' empirical data. Would love to see disc weight and plastic variants compared. Would also be amazing to see tech disc start to be incorporated too.
About took me out with the drone lmaooo, love the faces you made for the chupacabras as well
lol you know the drone can't get you...probably...maybe
I absolutely love this series!
Great video. Nearing 50 and eight months into DG, I don't need a Firebird right now, but found this to be a great video. Am Subscribed and liked above. Keep up the great work. Cheers!
I recently purchased a brand new star Firebird 174grams, and when tossed, it goes as straight as an arrow with the tiniest fade to the left…like 5 feet to 8 feet max and flies to 335-360 ft. One of my favourite discs now… :)
Definitely my favourite video from you so far! That metal break had me laughing so hard.
I had an 11x champ firebird for a few years but lost it, and had never found something quite like it until the felon when it first released. After shoulder issues I wasn't throwing the felon as much. When Loft released the Xenon, it quickly replaced the felon and it gets much more use now. The feel in hand for me is so good and makes every throw more confident. I see there's other love for the xenon in comments lol Hopefully y'all get the chance to try their stuff out!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed the metal break, that Chupacabra is wild! I am gonna have to look into this Xenon!
You guys make some of the best disc golf content on the internet!! Thank you!!
Thank you very much Tim! Glad you're enjoying it! Tell your friends :D
Raptor is my Firebird; I bag an ESP, Big Z, and Z.
I do have a couple Sexton FBs, but they’re “hangers”. My first ace was with an ESP Raptor, so there’s a bit of sentimentality.
Another banger vid- you guys are putting out quality, USEFUL content. Keep ‘em coming!
Love the raptor myself, the ESP Swirl, Midnight Crystal and new Gossage Tour Series are in my rotation now. Thanks for the kind words and for watching!
Great series and great info! Keep it up. I just bought an Innova Whippet, just for fun. I made the same faces 11:23
Would highly recommend trying Loft Xenon! It is going to be like a halo firebird but I think you will love the feel in the hand and the clean release.
Is Loft just selling discs now or do I have to get in a kickstarter?
@@SixSidedDiscsthey are available for retailers. Emerald City Discs in Seattle, Easy 3 Disc Golf in Everett, and Kayak Point pro shop in Stanwood (all Washington state cities) carry Loft.
The Xenon is very beef, but the slightly rounded rim feels great for fh throws
@@SixSidedDiscs they are selling. This one didn’t go through kickstarter and I would say it is their best mold yet.
The best thing about me finding the firebird early in my game was that it taught me to love zones. It’s a 9 speed zone.
You guys are quickly becoming my favorite disc review channel
The key is not calling it a disc review! ;)
And thanks!
@@SixSidedDiscs sorry, well, you guys are my favorite disc flight test channel 😂
What I learned from this video is that I should just keep throwing my stock champ Firebird hah. Anyways great video - would love to see a bit more side profiles side by side to replace some face shot time and also talk about profile/hand feel more instead of marketing descriptions from the manufacturers. I know Felon is more shallow than a firebird and generally a bit more flat.
As a new disc golfer, I've been watching a ton of videos trying to get a feel for different discs I might want. This is one of the absolute best breakdowns I've seen, love the combination of up close disc analysis, overhead traced shots, and chart placement. I bought the same special edition Fireball you threw here when I first started a couple months back. My reasoning? It was shiny and looked cool. It mostly sits in my bag because I don't have anywhere near the power/form to throw it currently hahaha. But I do like it for headwinds!
The Mint Phoenix is one of my new favorites. Also, a literal name for a fire bird. 🤣
I was so bummed, our Mint Discs order arrived while I was editing this video and it already took so long to get this video done I had to push it for a future part 2!
Pretty new player here the lat64 Honor has quickly become one of the favorites in my bag, always fades out and so satisfying to use.
You're not the first person to mention the Honor, we threw it when we tested discs that were like the Thunderbird, sounds like it is somewhere in between the two.
Thanks for the informative and entertaining video Greg! As a older new player (40+, playing a few months), it can be tricky figuring out what will work for me - especially when flight numbers don't matter! I love the series, it's helpful and entertaining too. A request for your consideration? As well as the field shots, would it be possible to do some testing on a course, perhaps using one or two holes? That would help tp show how a disc's flight characteristics fit the shot shape you might want. Thanks and I'll look forward to your next video!
Thanks for the kind words Ryan and thanks for watching! We will often do some course shots for our Disc in the Details series, it does add some work when we're throwing 20+ discs on a hole if people are playing the course or if we're smacking trees and trying not to lose the discs, but I'm not opposed to it either. Thanks for the suggestion!
I had a firebird bagged for a couple years.. after losing it I tried to replace it, after buying five different Firebirds and none of them flying anything like each other, I got smart and got an axiom fireball. MVP knows how to make their discs consistent 🤘🏼
As a Kiwi, it's always awesome seeing some RPM love
The Lone star disc that fits the Firebird is the Dos X. Disregard it’s flight numbers, it flies very much the same
I think discmania's fd3 is a lot more similar to the firebird. C line it's still quite overstable but nothing like a splice.
The Prodigy FX-2 is IMO a much better Firebird comparison than the H1v2. Having thrown both quite a bit, the H1v2 doesn't quite have a dumping fade that an over-stable fairway should have. It does have good pushing fade, but I wouldn't expect it to bite as much as other molds in that slot.
The main concern with the FX-2 that people have is that there have been many runs of FX-2 that have a really sharp under-rim. The newer versions (2022 and current) don't really have this problem, but I can see where feeling the sharpness can really push someone away from this mold. My personal favorite are the 400G FX-2's for the sweet spot in terms of grip and over-stability.
love the fx2. really surprised they went with the H1 instead for a comparison.
I suspect there's at least a little bit of divided opinion. I mentioned in other comment replies that I really wanted to consider discs that felt good on both forehand and backhand and every FX2 I've ever thrown or felt has been really unappealing for a forehand but I'm happy to be proved wrong. We'll have to use the FX-2 in a part 2!
Love this series! I bought a glow Phoenix from mint and I am Ute it might be just as overstable as the chupacabra
Should have tested the Scepter from Infinite. Old firebird mold that goes through a flattening process. The one I have is a meat hook
just picked up an f2 halo scepter. love it.
The point of a firebird is to not flip at all
Another great video! Firebird is my absolute go to overstable fairway and i wont change any time soon.
And also, im from sweden.. sorry but you said Stöl and the text clearly said Stäl. try again ;)
great video tho the Chupacabra part had me laughing so hard!
The updated Gateway Blade has that Teebird "stability bump" under the wing. It's a great contender too
Nice and informative vids😊 West Side disc Ahti is one which is also quite similar overstable as these discs.
I am surprised that you didn't include the Pioneer. I know you can't include all of the discs but I thought it would have been popular enough. I have a pioneer in moonshine plastic and it is pretty crazy.
I do really like the H1v2. I feel like it flies like a halo wraith now. I had it out of the bag for a time but I think I will put it back in now. I lost a D3 so I think it will be a good replacement for that.
Would love to test a Pioneer in the future, I don't know that I've ever felt one, which puts it on a pretty small list!
@@SixSidedDiscs I took it on a glow round. I had that and a nova putter. It did not go well. There was 1 foot of snow on the ground. I had never thrown anything that overstable at that point. it was a crazy time trying to get that glow Pioneer to get to where I needed it to go lol
I throw both the kastaplast Stål and Lat64 Honor in that slot. The difference for me is the type of fade. The Stål really wants to dump... which makes it my go to spike hyzer disc, and for approaches/tees with limited distance. The honor however, has the same stability regarding not flipping in any type of head wind, but the fade is much more forward pushing, reliable but not dumping. This allows it to be more useful for shot shaping and, reliable distance.
A note here though... I am a terrible forehand thrower so there's nothing useful I can tell about the feel/ grip for forehand throws. The above is backhand info only.
Nice series btw. Very informative and useful for me.
I found a champ firebird with a really high edge and flat top. The most beefy but controllable disc in my bag.
I use a Berg K1 soft and for a lil longer distances i use Berg× K1. Best upshot discs ever made.
I felt that my chupacabra is a tilt with a chupacabra stamp so now I feel better knowing I'm not insane
I really liked the three column system, makes it easy to see which discs line up with what is being looked for.
Heard the Infinite Discs Scepter is made using the same mold as older firebirds, not sure if that is accurate though.
That is accurate as far as how its manufactured, whether it flies the same...I Guses we'll find out in a part 2 in the future! lol
I throw a draco, which is an old firebird mold that always comes out board flat. it’s a great disc
I use to bag a max weight g star firebird. At first it was a firebird but over time it became a money disc with a straight push and reliable dump
G Star is interesting, I think sometimes I see the same thing from Fission with MVP, because they know it beats in quickly, it actually starts out pretty stable and then eventually becomes much more understable.
Funny not to throw a current-run Champ Firebird in there. And my favorite Firebird is the Millennium Draco. It's just a flat-topped champ Firebird like the old PFN ones.
I was hoping the clash ginger would be on this list. My ginger beat out my firebird in the bag. You compared the ginger in your Thunderbird video. Where would you classify it compared to the firebird? Thanks! I love this series.
I think our conclusion was that the Ginger was too over stable as a Thunderbird, obviously, it might work great for some people.
I think it probably fits in between them, it feels good though I really like their plastic
If you like the raptor you gotta try out the esp captains raptor. Love that thing for backhands and slightly less stable for hands. Bag a z cap rap for the more stable backhand spike hyzers or for less touchy forehands
Love this. Great content 👌
So would you be ok with giving away or letting any of the Disc go , because I'm still trying to find I can throw
I have a motion and love it forehand and backhand (it’s just better in the hand for me) but keep a champ firebird for my thumbers
100% agree I like the flight of a firebird but it does not fit in my hand and the inside edge of the rim is too sharp and it is abrasive on my hand, especially forehand.
Lots of similar flying discs.
Personally the Omen takes this spot in my bag.
I have 2 raptors, and 2 captain's raptors. I bag 1 of each. My raptor being Elite Z, the captain's raptor Special blend Z. You should've used the captain's raptor as well, since its flight numbers are 9/3/1/4. I think that it flies the exact same no matter what plastic (Esp swirl or special Z). Raptor meanwhile is definitely more straight but still overstable.
love to see the Vulture.
Great vid!
The kastaplast STOOL 😆
Hey man, that's what the internet said, it said it sounded like that LOL
The fx-2 from prodigy is probably the closest even tho the numbers are 9 4 -1 3. Prodigy is weird
For prodigy the FX-2 would be the best firebird comparison. The h1 is more of a PD by flight numbers at least
I’ve been curious about the Jarn but I love my zones too much
I just picked up an orbit glow felon and love it
Those new orbit glow ones look sick!
No FD3 review? I know stock ones aren’t out yet but pretty easy to find the metal flake new ones.
There's always bound to be some discs left out when we do these but we gather up as much as we can and test what we have, unfortunately, we didn't have any FD3 available. We'll have to save it for a part 2.
I started playing in 2021 and bought a mystery 10 pack of misprint discs from dynamic discs. There was a lucid felon in the box. It's still in my bag now, and the only way it won't be in the bag will be if it breaks, is lost, or is stolen. It no longer flies like a felon and is a straight flyer now but my bag wouldn't be the same without it. I also bag an orbit felon an I'm guessing it flies like the halo firebird because it's a beefy disc. I recently bought a fluid plastic felon an it flew like my beat in felon.
My "Firebird" of choice is the Westside Ahti although I prefer the Longbowman as an overstable fairway driver because it has a much better feel than anything else in that category I've tried and it's a bit less overstable.
I’ve always wanted to try an Ahti, but they’re so hard to find in stock where I’m at and I won’t buy a mold online I haven’t felt/thrown before.
Love my Halloween stamp sparkle Longbowmans, very similar to an Anax and great FH disc. Reliable finish but much more straight-stable to my arm than overstable.
You definitely should have tried an Fx-2, as well as the OG H series from prodigy if you can find them
Did nobody love the Innova Monster? Such a great utility disc. Replace mine with a Stal though.....That plastic...
Sexy birds are my jam but the fd3 has been filling the slot lately. Although the raptor, more specifically cap rap is a solid choice.
I went through this when looking. I settled on felons myself. I recently found a clash ginger which is similar and I've been loving it. Looks pretty and the handfeel is more comfy for me.
You dont have a problem with felon flipping?
@@ezdor8877 I have one that's less stable than the other. Flies like a beat in thunderbird. Found it unmarked on a course so I don't know how much use it had before I got it. The other is pretty over stable and hasn't lost much stability over a year of use. Both are stock lucid 174g. One of those things where molds are inconsistent I guess.
@@Darthyeetrous Alr thank you. My lucid felon started flipping over after one month so wanted to know if anyone else had that problem
Sextons are still great, but i can definitely say that other manufacturers version are more consistent in being "flat". Tbh i tend to throw my James proctor Max instead. Metal flake and more flat feels better in my hand.
The Firebird is a MEAT HOOK! Super over stable. I’d only use them if I need to land a huge hyzer bomb on an ace run that is behind a blind curve (dog leg). Otherwise, I’d never personally use one anywhere but off the box.
Thank you for adding the RPM Disc Kiwi to that list. 🍖🍖🍖
Yo FX-2 is definitely Prodigy's Firebird
Agreed, but flashing inconsistencies and a sharp rim make it a literal pain to throw.
This.
I also don’t like the Firebird. I can’t throw it anywhere near my understable discs. I bought an Innova in Star plastic, and it was by far the disc I couldn’t throw at a target or for any distance. It is the prettiest disc I own, so now I display it in my office.
I throw the fireball instead because I like the rim more. Always had a problem with the rim of the firebird and eagle. Maybe I'm just bad, but idk people should just throw with what works for them.
100%, throw what works for you. There's a lot of Innova peer pressure out there though lol
My fireball is probably the most overstable disc I've ever seen
love it!
IMO the Firebird should be a 9/3/0/3, it is not as stable as most Firebird "clones". Discmania's closest would be FD3, not Splice, and Prodigy's would more likely be the FX-2. The FX-2 is more stable than the numvers suggest, especially in 500 and 750 plastic. Great video though, I really likethe idea of testing the flightnumbers.
Honestly, I like firebird but i just love PD more, (to those who think fd3 was supposed to be there, i lack the armspeed, okay?) Also thunderbird and Volt are cool too
Got an mvp flare in glow plastic so I didn't lose my Firebird in the dark.
It's at least two notches more stable, like extremely beefy. Probably 9 2 0 5... it's like a 9-speed tilt
They named the disc well- skip MONSTER! I bag one just for flare skips/flex lines here in FL. Plastic feels grippy even on the most humid days.
The newer runs of Stal kinda suck, either that or I had the ones I had for so long that these new ones feel like absolute MEAT hooks. Also have a long time Raptor that flies WAY different than the new one I got (weirdly the new one is less stable).
I have tested raptors over and over again but i find it allways slip from my hand, i find it bit too shallow and rounded. I throw myself FD3 thats been in bag for 3 year and flies more like Thunderbird these days and Clash discs Spice as more overstable.
I need to try out the Spice. I can't argue with the hand-feel, early release vibes, the Firebird hangs on too long for me so I get it! Hope your Spice and Thunderbird are working well!
The Lone Howl is also very close to the Firebird
I use the mvp resistor. Although it’s only a 6.5 speed it flies almost as far and is still just as beefy
I really wanted to like the resistor, I struggled to get a clean release and when I finally lost it on I just left it, I had been trying to find a shorter Raptor or longer Jarn, I'm gonna give the Legacy Badger a try.
So my H1v2 10,5,0,3 is now a 11,4,0,3 :P Oh well, it goes stright for a long while before pushing on a hyzer. But the FX-2, thats a Firebird flight, surprised it wasn't included, it were your Firebird for a while until you eaither lost it or made it start to turn, a Dickerson 500 one? (Got it as an answer to a comment in another video if I recall)
I used to throw an FX-2, my Dickerson one is behind me in the video, retired it when he signed it and switched to one in 400 plastic. It was always way too overstable for me but I could rely on it to hit a gap and then swing way left. I only threw it on backhand, it was just so uncomfortable on forehand.
So the missing thing for the FX-2 to be part is the ability to get it on a forehand? Gotcha! =)
Also got me a Lucid Air Felon that is so darn flat, 155g, flexing away, might put the FX-2 on the rack... As you said, its not the most comfortable on a forehand.
I was looking for a pink rim Sockibomb Felon (they seem to have a nice dome) as my first "Firebird" type disc and could only find the purple ones locally. Same rack at the local PIAS, there was this nice pink plate/grey rim Halo Firebird, so I'm giving it a try for now. I didn't realize the Halo Firebird was that much more OS than a Sexton one, so I'll give it some tree love first and see how it behaves in a few weeks before looking elsewhere...
The SOckibomb Felons ive seen are all board flat and i personaly throw a pink one and its board flat
Ah nice, tree love can fix that!
Nice video! Would be nice to see how pd would do
We threw the PD in our Thunderbird video, def check that out, the S-Line PD is workable but the C-Line PD (despite the domeyness of the current one) is more Firebird than Thunderbird.
Yet another amazing review, thank you so very much!
Maybe zone and zone clones next? :o
We have a video about the zone, may not be exactly what you're looking for but it does talk about some comparisons with other approach discs: ruclips.net/video/ij_oWYf3BNg/видео.html
I use the lat 64 honor for this slot
Discraft anax is the best firebird I've thrown because its slightly farther with a little flip to straight for a good distance and has a reliable hard fade , my axiom fireball is like a new halo firebird and my pfn Tesla is just as over stable as it🤣
Notable disc missing from this video: Mint Phoenix (9/3/0/4).
Should have tried Westside disc - Ahti and L64 - Pioneer as well 😊
Next time!
I stick to felons, because they’re flat and I can get consistency on stock ones. I don’t have to rummage around the internet to find the perfect firebird run.
I stick to a champ firebird because it goes about the same distance as my Felon but handles wind waaay better and I don't have to deal with the disc beating in (more consistency during flight and over the life of the disc). I don't have to rummage around the internet to find a more expensive/rare Felon run (lucid-x, glimmer, tour series, etc).
Maybe I'm crazy but every champion Thunderbird I've thrown has simultaneously had more glide and more low speed fade than every lucid/fuzion Felon I've thrown. To me, overstable Thunderbirds have consistently filled this slot for me better than any Firebird style disc I've thrown
Also MVP Terra is the MVP version of a Firebird. Flies the most similarly.
I know the Terra is pretty stable, but in my mind, for a disc to be a Firebird you gotta be able to rip it on forehand and given that it is James Conrad’s disc and he is allergic to forehands, I assume it is typically thrown only in backhands
This slot for me is filled by a Loft Xenon for beef (flies like 9/2/0/5 for my arm speed), and the MVP Terra for slight turn but reliable fade ( 8/5/-0.5/3 on my FH).
@@SixSidedDiscsHuh? Just rip it on a forehand, who cares how Conrad throws it. Weird response.
@@prattacaster I should say I assume. For me, when I feel it in my hand, it doesn't feel comfortable for a forehand, its a lot deeper than many of the discs we tested today, but that might just be me getting in my head about it.
I was throwing the new Glitsch around the other day on forehands and of course it's super deep, and it was great. Hmm...
@@SixSidedDiscs My go to disc for this slot is a Fuzion Felon, I also have a 2022 Sexton Firebird and a Neutron Terra. I think they deliver very similar flights, Terra may be the most stable but it's very close. I think you should give it a shot
This video brought to you by generous donations from Biofreeze, Capzasin HP, Voltaren, and the global Ibuprofen consortium. But seriously, enjoy the intelligent maturity you bring to the disc golf youtubes.
While I've been playing at a very high level for 32 years and enjoy your stuff immensely, I completely disagree with your assessment about flight numbers. They have all almost always seemed fairly accurate to me, and the occasional outliers were generally defective molds (not always the case and sometimes plastic type dependent).
I do agree about the Firebird. Thought it was awful from day one, except for the fact that when I began in the early 90s and was throwing 400' hammers, most discs couldn't handle the torque and were hard to keep on the lines I wanted. It was the first disc stable enough that I didn't have to consider those elements as much and I could just crank it right at the target. I still found things like the Banshee and the Cyclone 2 to be better because they had more glide and distance once they were really beat up.
keep up the good work, but the flight numbers DO matter and are a pretty accurate representation. Always have been for me anyway.
I still own a 2015 sexton firebird, I sold the other one to help pay for school
I love that you can sell a disc for that
I throw barely 300' with a neutral fairway driver, so most firebird type discs are too much for me, though I have a 2018 Sexton Firebird that's almost throwable for distance. I use a Champion Banshee instead. It's basically a 7-speed firebird (7 3 0 3) and is essentially like the most overstable teebird you can throw.
The Prodigy FX-2 is the prodigy “firebird.” 😅
Fuzion Felons are a little straighter, more “sexton firebird”-like imo. Not that I really have a dog in the fight when it comes to this slot since my noodle-arm only throws this slot when the winds are up to 15mph+
Also how has nobody built a testing robot that throws exactly how you program it??
K1 Stal for me!
Feel like you missed a lot of discs. Would love to see the xenon, cap rap, pioneer, ahti and fd3
Sounds like we will need a Part 2!
Who doesn't like a zone?! What!
The kiwi, or as most people in New Zealand call it the meat hook, because it flies like a meat hook. (Also fitting as the kiwi is a flightless bird 🤷♂️)
If you like innova but don’t like the firebird because it’s too stable for you, why not go with a thunderbird?
I could not get on board with the raptor. It was always flipping on me
I think you missed a fourth category the "tilt" category.
I must own the worlds most overstable mvp volt, cause it definitely has shot shapes similar to a chupachabra, ill barely ever get my volt past 230'. It is easily my overstable disc, and I also have the mutant, captians raptor, and the 13 speed champion Boss. Cap rap is about 280-310', boss 320-350' and mutant the mid range, goes about 200-250' very similar to my volt in distance, but the volt is basically immediately fading out of my hand while very other disc I mentioned I can atleast get 150' straight. Keep in mind a volt is supposed to be a 8/5/-0.5/2 and I hear basicslly no one else talk about their volt like I do. But my champ Teebird3 flew like you'd expect the volt to. Im soo mad about it. But I do love handing someone my volt and seeing them panic.
Firebird is way too overstable for my arm speed/form, but i've been toying with the idea of getting a Thunderbird, which might give me similar flight for now. (straight for a bit and consistent fade)
Also, really appreciate your content.
Same here, but it still makes my bag as a utility disc. Every couple rounds I have a lie where I need minimum glide, and maximum stability. Compared to my Zone or my Glory, it's just a completely different flight path so it's nice to have on reserve.
Literally took my Sexton Firebird out of my bag today. My champ Thunderbird does the same thing.
How can you not include the scepter! It's the old firebird mold!
Is it a different mold from the Draco? The only Scepter we had recently was in I Blend plastic which is like old pro plastic, not very stable or durable.