As a Wing Chun guy, I don't mind saying that we tend to have no ground game. If this MMA guy had any ground game, it would have been over on the first takedown. That said, MMA guy didn't have much boxing technique. Wing Chun guy has decently trained hands (despite being too low) and good ambidexterity, but like most of us, he's got no angles. Didn't matter this time, but it usually will.
Yea, as a bjj guy it seems like the mma dude in the video learned all his „grappling“ from watching ufc highlights not actually learning them. It seems like he has ideas about what to do, like of an armbar or sidecontrol, but he dosen’t actually know how you do these moves or get into these positions. Btw how does your wing chun training look like? Just interested because I started out with wing chun, went to takewandoe, then to muay thai and now and probably staying for a long time at grappling/bjj. To be honost I had bad experiences at the wing chun place. Like the people were nice and all, but it felt like they were all kinda deluding themselves. We never really sparred at all, only did the same slow choreography’s and never anything more than minimal resistance. In spite of that, the coach and the people that have been there for a while, genuinely feel like they can fight or are in anyway competent, wich I just can’t see. Like how tf would anyone know how to drive if they only look at the theory of it, never actually putting themselves in a test drive or training to actually drive. Anyways I’m just interested in what other peoples experiences with it are like, because it seems like it can vary a lot. Sry for my big ass rant lol :)
Yeah as a brown belt in bjj and mma fighter I can confidently say that “mma guy” has very little training in both stand up and ground game. Not hating on him I’m just saying what I see.
@@ethanmanjhi4007 I would bet there are "dirty" moves in just about any style. I agree that things like eye gouges (of which there are several kinds in Wing Chun) don't belong in sport, but there are several core principles of Wing Chun I'd like to see more of in the UFC. Ambidexterity is a great example. Most MMA fighters live in one stance. They're trained to switch primarily in the context of creating unpredictable attacks, but occasionally you see fighters who switch much more often. Those who can do it fluidly with high frequency tend to dominate center octagon position. If anyone would just treat UFC like Moneyball, they'd have clear stats proving a stark correlation between ambidexterous footwork and octagon control. I'd never claim Wing Chun is the only way to develop that ambidexterity, but I can confidently say that any MMA fighter who trains Wing Chun for a year will improve their ambidexterity.
There's actually a lot of useful and effective stuff in wing chun and other kung fu styles; you just have to be able to strike, grapple and wrestle to apply these martial arts
Yeah. But that only happebs because they do not spar! I have done an experiment before (3 times!) that kind of prove my point. First, You get any number (above 1) of guys that are crazy enough to go with the experiment, then you give them a ruleset from any combat sport (i have done it with Boxing, Kick Boxing and Muay Thai rules), have them do some light workouts and then give them the necessary equipment for them to spar (boxing or MMA gloves, mouth pieces, cups, etc) and make them spar under the ruleset that you gave them around 5 times a day, around 4 days a week, for at least 2 weeks; but keep in mind that sparring and streching are the only things that you are going to make them do. It is important that you do not allow any of them to inmediately spar again after they finish a sparring session, instead tell them to think about what they did and what they could have done, but *do not* tell them what they did wrong. Probably nobody on this commen section will do such a crazy thing so i'll give you the results that i got every time: People that knew how to fight even without any training, without teaching them what a Jab is, without teaching them a proper boxing guard, how to clinch properly. Even without teaching them any of that, they always got decent/good enough at it in only 2 weeks. Just by sparring a lot. So imagine having that plus any martial arts training. No wonder that the most succesful styles are the ones that spar and fight the most (Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ, many forms of wrestling, Shuai Jiao, kickboxing, etc...)
I do wonder if people will pay attention to that reply. I consider such knowledge, really, really important. Unless you're some fighting genious, you will need sparring. And even if you are indeed a fighting genious, you will need sparring to get certain things down.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 yeah I agree, definately sparring IS key; even wild animals spar with eachother to practice fighting and hunting skills. However even when wild lions or wild tigers spar they don't injure eachother, they cannot risk injury when they have to literally fight to survive. Sparring is 100% necessary, you just gotta have good sparring partners
Interesting that the WC guy stuck to WC and didn't throw in boxing punches or karate/TKD kicks (not that I'm against mixing styles) and still won. I think this is a good representation of how fairly-competent WC fighting would look like against a similarly-skilled MMA fighter.
@@danmatakizawa Slow, predictable and easily frustrated. You could see the WC guy realize this early in the fight and gain confidence. MMA guy had no idea how to adapt.
He doesn't show good wing Chun, but at least he isn't completely incompetent in fighting. The mma guy is clearly even worse as a fighter. I say that the wing Chun guy doesn't show good wing Chun, because I am a wing Chun practitioner and I know what I'm talking about... Maybe he is way better, but he didn't want to use it much, otherwise he could hurt the opponent... And I really admire the respect he had for the opponent, he wasn't really trying to hurt him at all. Actually both fighters had that mentality.
Well you've seen my fight and know I also incorporate a lot of CMA and Wing Chun into my MMA fighting style too. So my thoughts are pretty clear, there's plenty there that works so long as you actually pressure test it, spar with it and train it realistically. It can frustrate someone who isn't used to fighting that way. Though I think the biggest weakness of the MMA guy here was that he lost his composure very early and then started using desperation attacks which in turn depleted his stamina. At that point he was just putty. His heads probably spinning and he's just trying to hang on (He's also crossing his stance a lot, which is a beginners mistake, though with him being rocked he could have just regressed to that). Composure and patience are very key to fights man. Don't always try to go for the first round finish. Don't lose it at the first sign that it's not going your way. Just relax, breath and try to patiently find those openings. Also, when and where with the hooks guys. Hooks are short range weapons. If the other guy has decent straights and knows what he's doing (and the Wing Chun guy did) then he's going to beat you to the punch against that hook. Really impressed with that Wing Chun lad. He did everything right. He kept his patience, read his opponent, stayed composed and ultimately out striked the fellow. More of this people. An absolute pleasure to see people making those CMA's work and proving that with the right mind set you can be lethal with that stuff.
As a Wing Chun practitioner, I can say without a doubt that this is the best video I have seen on the internet where Wing Chun is applied in a real fight. I would love to see more Wing Chun practitioners coming out and testing their skills. It's an amazing art and really looked down upon because of fake so called masters and practitioners. Thanks for the awesome content.
@@nelsonmcatee3721 all I know is Joe Lewis was a heavy weight full contact kickboxing champion and he challenged Bruce Lee then quickly became Bruce Lees student. Joe Lewis has both video recordings and written testimony saying that Bruce Lee was a beast and in hi words could shell shock a man with his front hand.
For all those wing chunners looking for more power in their strikes, and stronger, more robust overall body structure, you need to look into effective martial 'zhan zhuang' - like that taught by Yao Zongxun lineage of Yiquan kungfu, for example. This is what your 'goat stance' is supposed to be providing you with. You find zhan zhuang 'standing post/pile' training in Gao baguazhang, and Chen taiji. It's an ancient Taoist yoga for martial arts, but can also be used for general health cultivation also. Perhaps you remember your teacher saying the goat stance alone should be trained for at least 18 months, or something like that? Well, in my experience, this is the reason why - because your punching will lack that powerful whole body connection that people like Tyson has with his hooks, and that someone like McGregor seems to have. In Western boxing, powerful punchers are often treated as mysterious gods - because some people are just born with good whole body connection to the ground that facilitates such striking from an early stage of their training (in Chinese Kungfu, this is called 'hunyuan skill'). But Zhan zhuang / goat stance training offers that power to everyone - it just takes at least 2 years practice for at least 1 hour daily. That's why you're likely hearing this for the first time! 😅 People just don't have the time, dedication, and suitable teacher to point out correct structure and its development. But good teachers are slowly making their way out of China to the west these days. If you meet one, you are a very lucky person! Also, take note of how the wing chun guy in the vid here generally applied constant pressure to his opponent - forcing him to try random attack strategies before he could test potentials. That is wing chun spirit - to constantly march in and 'suffocate' opponent as if in a phonebooth - with the intent of gaining a 'bind' situation (that's what it's called when swords lock on a battlefield), from which they can then work trapping and elbows, etc. Elbow is in fact wing chun's reliable core KO strike - and so that's the intended game-finisher. In the above vid, the MMA guy kept good enough distance under the pressure, so didn't get trapped much, and perhaps they agreed to not use elbows, anyway. But you can see how the wing chunner's pure intent to constantly march forward was apparently the ultimate winning factor. The MMA guy did seem generally less experienced, but he eventually appeared to feel suffocated and gave up.
When a guy from MMA sucks everybody it's like "it's not a real MMA practicioner" But when a Wing Chun practicioner sucks it's clearly a Wing Chun practicioner.
It's because we have professional settings like the UFC, One Championship, etc to show us what high level MMA skill looks like. You can compare low level fighters in unsanctioned sparring matches to the MMA athletes in high level events and see how their skills match up. Thats not the case with Wing Chun. What does a high level WC fighter actually look like? That's why people always blame WC as a style over the practitioner. I personally like WC and think it has some good concepts that actually work in a live environment. But WC on its own is limited and not a complete fighting system.
@@georgeraphael5181 you say wing Chun isn't a complete fighting system. So tell me what is a complete fighting system. If you say it isn't a complete fighting system, then I can say nothing is a complete system either... Boxing, bjj, muay thai, and all the others aren't complete either. It also depends on the wing Chun lineage... For example, wing Tsung lineage from Leung Ting has ground fighting (some basics at least) and anti take downs, sparring, etc.
I think a lot of people tend to automaticaly assume that if someone trains MMA, they'll do well in any fight, and the converse for people who train in a more "traditional" martial art. But in my experience of training with people of different skill level, athleticism, and fighting instinct, I know that this is very very variable and depends more on the individual and the kind of work they put in.
I generally agree. I wonder at what point in their respective journeys they are though. The red gloves is literally all over the place from a foundational technical perspective and look like they have trained under 6mths. No idea on the wing chun proponent.
True - it's the fighter over the style. Because as soon as the fighter sees something useful from another style, and which overlaps with their own style in a useful way, then there isn't really any style existing anymore, really. There's just insightful fighters.
@@Erime although training methods often dictate how effective a person's use of a styles technical repertoire can be. In turn this affects technical knowledge, teaching ability and curriculum. I think ideology and pedagogy are very important factors. It's why some styles consistently turn out capable combatants as the norm and some as the notable exceptions. I think both people in this clip look very unskilled: time *may* be a factor, so might individual approach but surely they aren't the only ones.
@@catscradle1921 agreed. By style I mean the overarching fighting 'philosophy'/strategy and its accompanying motifs or 'signature moves'. At the end of the day, though, it's whatever works, isn't it - and that can include putting in time on certain skills, and sparring, of course. I was just watching a video about Michel Pereira in UFC - who does some flashy capoeira, but started out in karate and jiujitsu. And someone in the comments said it's his solid muay thai that ultimately wins his matches 🤣. I think his general style and strategy is that he enjoys fighting and stays fluid, personally - and, yes, he's put the time in and explored all areas of MMA skills - probably with a great coach/peer group, also.
For the MMA guy. Having his hooks get blocked and then take 2-3 punches back immediately by the WC guy, even if he defends them well, has to be demoralizing when it happens over and over.
I actually see a lot of what the WC guy does in our training. Pretty cool to see wing chun adapted for a ringfighting context without just looking more or less like kickboxing
I am practitioner in WC, Krav, Bang MT, mantis, and Hung Gar. I will comment from both WC and MMA perspective. MMA guy did not have good ground game and his stand up game did not have fluid combo that change sides which would have caused issues for WC guy. WC guy maintained good distance management that allowed him to connect and execute WC attacks. For WC folks, he had Chim Kiu distance. That’s how my WC dojo train in sparring. WC guy leg frame to kick out of armbar was brilliant. Never seen that before. At 430 when WC guy had MMA guy head down, he missed Chim Kiu head control takedown opportunity to finish. But that was Monday QB observation
@turtle_enthousiast good MT or kickboxing combinations sometimes would switch to southpaw stance to deliver kicks, cross, hook or intercept opponent lateral movement. That creates angles and width in your combinations. Bang MT does that regularly
Wing Chun people: Atlast, the chosen one is born, our light and our hope.. Xu Xiaodong: (Waiting for a wingchun and taichi folks that can beat him and his MMA)
I think Xiaodong only has in issue with wing chun/taiji masters who claim they can beat any MMA fighter with their chi powers. I think even he would respect people who put in the physical work and learn how to actually fight.
i'm sure he has been beaten by tai ji guys before, he was a sanda fighter before and plenty of taiji people have trained at his gym and some of them are really good wrestlers.
@@emilianosintarias7337 One Taiji even can win against Xu Xiaodong's student just for wrestling match, there's a video on that, it can't even move his student as they wrestle and just being lead into submission..
@@emilianosintarias7337 Yup, most Kung Fu styles were developed for mid-range combat ((probably to be implemented after losing your primary weapon)), which inevitably is a blend of grappling and inside strikes utilizing hands, forearms, knees, head, hips, shoulders, feet, elbows, and very little if any blocking, which would make sense assuming your opponent was probably still in possession of their weapon or had managed somehow to snatch yours, and blocking large edge weapons is pretty much a non-option.
@@mmurmurjohnson2368 Only in movies it all happened, watch how Xu xiaodong's student humiliate those taiji guy who can't even bring his opponent upside down and after minutes passed, he gasp and run out of stamina, Xu xiaodong's student just played him like a stuff toy.
Good golly did the "mma" guy sucked. His takedowns (while they don't need to look beautiful) looked like garbage. He needs a crash course on side control, and that he needs to be told it's okay to strike in side control to get your armbar.
@@pangopod2969 If you take out the atrocious haymakers, his striking was.. passable? If he just had better grappling he would've had that fight in the bag. Throw out the idea of a submission, and only leave the ground and pound, he would be fine. But alas...
@@AGuy-s5v That guy probably never heard of footwork, none of his strikes were sharps, he had no guard, he was sloppy, had no head movement, no control of the "ring", he used no feints, his kicks could be outskilled by a systema practionner, he used no set up either to strike or to enter the clinch...
@@pangopod2969 I'm not arguing that his striking is somehow good. I'm just saying that in MMA, especially considering his current opponent they he really doesn't need to be a better striker. It helps to have better striking, no doubt about that. However, he could have clearly won if he just had better control on the ground, and a more solid takedown game.
@@AGuy-s5v Ho sorry. You're right but i'm not sure if he could represent MMA if he sacrificed his striking training for wrestling. (Well he failed anyway but if he's indeed training MMA, he tried)
A fauxhawk is when you don't shave the sides but spike the middle up. This is a cropped mohawk: the sides are shaved. This is the kind of mohawk the US Marines used to give themselves when they were going into battle in WW2. Cool stuff.
Well the wing chun dude surely has sparred, his technique/gameplan doesn't fall apart at the first punch taken to the face, and he pressed forward as you are taught in wing chun, he did quite well too in the clinch. That being said, he pretty much had only 1 thing in his arsenal: chain punching and front kicks. The fact that the mma guy couldn't adjust to it and counter appropriately to this very simple tactic... well doesn't look good on him. Props to the wing chun fella for testing himself and actually pressure test, he came in way more prepared for a fight than most wing chun guys we have seen in the channel, but to be honest, his oponent was pretty damn bad. Super telegraphed punching, haymakers and bad grappling. But hey fair is fair, often times is the other way around, but his is a rare case of a combat sport representative being worse than a very traditional and by the book martial artist. The mma guy still deserves respect for putting himself out there as all fighters do.
Low blocks are great against wrist control, I use them all the time in wrestling! They work great in light karate sparring at blocking kicks at least, so it makes sense that they're good against weaker kicks.
In the slo-mo you can also see that he blocks it at the very tip of his foot, making the lever as long as possible. In karate, I've been taught to either do that, or hammerfist the knee (which I'm skeptical of, but with gloves maybe less so if you're accurate with good timing).
I used to have my hands around my chest in wing chun, but I realized they were meant to be face height after sparring. If this wing chun guy had his hands higher, he would have a better time defending against those face punches
It’s similar to the old school boxing stance. I heard they kept the hand low to protect the body because old school boxers didn’t go for head shots all the time because they didn’t wear gloves.
This really is a low level statement. As if you just sparred for the first time, got hit and figured out to keep your hands up. The low elbow position and guard enhances your techniques due to the elbow/waist connection. The more you raise your hands the weaker your techniques become. Also people tend to punch straight whenever they raise their guard whilst they should maintain an upward angle so the force is redirected to the ground and doesnt get stuck in their shoulder. The Wing-Chun guard is more of a concept than a fixed position meant to block strikes. The guy in this video kept his training position instead of using it as an active guard. He only did single direct attacks. No effort to bait his opponent at all.
@@MrCincin13 ving tsun is a spelling used by different vietnamese lineages of wing-chun as well as some ip man lineages like wong shun leung and moy yat. The techniques of these lineages vary, this means you can't specify certain technical aspects like stance or guard to the ving-tsun spelling.
@@florisvanlingen Everywhere that I have seen a club or gym or a dojo or whatever you would call it, that was named ving tsun, had a lower guard compared to wing chun clubs.
The payoff in the wing chun guy's training seems to be in his base and structure. He's incredibly stable. Too much stalking though - a better counterpuncher would have capitalized on that. Also, Ving Tsun usually denotes the Ip family (Chun and Ching) or Wong Shun Leung. Maybe Korean though, idk.
Agreed, but I read that stalking and not pressing the issue are staples of Wing Chun, break posture to chase your opponent and your triangular structural power envelope falls apart, it's better usually ((but not always)) to maintain it, especially if your opponent's super intent on striking you. I kinda think aside from the fact that this guy actually conditions and spars, that his ability to maintain his base structure under actual heavy fire that made him more able to preemptively sense and brush off those hooks.
@@mazenkaiser7234 You are mistaken. "Ving-Tsun" is a spelling that is supposedly more correct than Wing-Chun. Might have to do something with WC standing for toilet. Anyways Leung Ting adopts the "Wing Tsun" spelling. Ving-Tsun is very often the Wong Shun Leung lineage as is the case with this guy. I have actually sparred with this guy's teacher a few times and practice in the same lineage.
@@florisvanlingen You are the one who is confused. I stated *Yip* and *Ip* man are both correct *spellings* since both names are expressed in *Chinese characters not phoenetic letters.* My statement on *Ving-Tsun is that it is simply Leung Ting's lineage under (Y)Ip mon.* You are however correct in the fact that *Leung Ting changed the Wades Guile constanants of "W" "C" to "V" "T".* You see in Europe in the 1970's *WC was a common abbreviation for "Water Closet" European acronym for "bathroom".* But the *"Pronunciation in Cantonese is "Wing-chun" not "Ving-Tsun" just a "German phoenetic."*
@@florisvanlingen *"Wong Sheung Leung"* uses the *Cantonese Pronunciation of Wing-chun. You are speaking to a 5th generation sifu, under Ben Der/Kenneth Chun who was under both "Wong Sheung Lueng" "Ben Deer's" family tree and "Leung Sheung" Kenneth Chun's family Tree. Both are the oldest family tree's splitting from Yip mon as "they are both his first two students" Leung Ting was a younger brother of Wong Sheung Leung and he changed (Leung Ting) the name of his family tree in Germany due to what I just told you.*
finally a fight where the WC guy is not someone with 0 physical form, and completely scared of receiving a punch vs a beast that have been in a lot of fights
"Ving tsun" was how they spelled it in Hong Kong back when it was a British colony. The initials Wc in Britain was wash closet, another name for a toilet.
Everybody needs to realize that wing chun has hooks and uppercuts (!) in the chi sao sections, its a system which combines trapping and redirecting techniques with punches and ellbows from ANY ANGLE, get used to it!
I feel like mma guy was pretty flaily at times. And I hate to say that, because I dislike how people will always say "well it's only because the mma fighter sucked!" whenever a tma fighter wins regardless of whether that's why they won, and I do think people underestimate the usefulness of Ving Tsun/Wing Chung/other tmas, but in this case I do think mma guy's perhaps lower skill level was a factor.
You are right. I can also say that the wing Chun guy wasn't using much of the art, but at least he had good distance control and other stryking skills. Both fighters were respectful to each other (I admire that) but the fight could be more intense / agressive.
This is a perfect example of how wing chun application works against an MMA fighter...if it was bruce lee...the fight would have been over within 5 seconds
When i trained jiu jiutsu back in the days(before BJJ was a thing outside Brazil) i had a coach who whenever he saw you do to obvious misstakes in sparing yelled out "why did he get out of your hold!?" And if you didnt have a good answer he had you drill the exact sequence where you failed. The most common reason he yelled to beginners was that they left lots of air between themself and the opponent in the ground game. This MMA-guy llooked almost as if he intentionally tried to do side control etc with as much air as possible. My old coach would think it was a bad joke if anyone but a beginner did it like that.
I like how he’s chasing the centreline and not chasing the hands, a lot of WC masters that are not good developed a habit called chasing hands, which is still a flaw till this day.
Its cool to see somebody work some wing chun, I love wing chun, but it doesn't look like he has evolved it. He adapted it into a fighting style, but still looks like he's still looks like he is very limited. When I used to do some sparing and mostly Wing Chun core, I kept my hands higher and set on my hips to build power in straight punches. Chain punches are only good for when you are trying to force a full cover up to take advantage, but they are very dangerous when using against a competent opponent as chain punches put you in a rhythm that can be exploited.
SOMETHING TO NOTE I think we should all remember that some people who say they "do MMA" really just go to an MMA gym that teaches very surface level aspects of kick boxing/wrestling/joint locks/etc.
Yeah as a brown belt in bjj and mma fighter I can confidently say that “mma guy” has very little training in both stand up and ground game. Not hating on him I’m just saying what I see.
In that same way a lot of Wing Chun people go to schools that also teach very surface level stuff. It's just that that surface level stuff is much more prevalent in WC than it is among MMA gyms
@@Hawidaku It all depends on the individual and how they train. Some people join an mma gym and only come to class once a week. The rest of the time they lay back and watch t.v. at home. Same as a martial art school.
Oh wow. This is some orthodox ass wing chun. I mean textbook student grade stuff. I mean you can't dispute that this is a wing chun practitioner whether he win or loose the fight. He just simply is. Def has some experience too
Good fight. I noticed a lot of Wing Chun guys don't use Bon Sao. Wonder why? Seems quite natural to use it if someone is attacking you. You can jam their punches.
4:33 Wing chun guy with great defense! uses both arms to cover a wild left hook, then reaches out with the left, to parry a right hook, then pushes away the follow left. Classic wing chun right there
This is the Ip Ching and Ip Chun (Sons of Ip Man) branch of Ving Tsun from Hong Kong. The German one is Leung Ting's Wing Tsun thru Emin Boztepe. The different spellings are done because of trademark lawsuits.... in the end, all Wing Chun is Wing Chun regardless of spelling!
@@FightCommentary Ving Tsun is the official name of the Yip Man Hong Kong historical wing chun and any others whose Sifu was a teacher under Yip Man, while Wing Tsun is for the European version, which is Dr. Leung Ting's students spread worldwide. Some VT schools came from Sifu's who left Hong Kong in the 1960's such as GM Moy Yat...Then we have the WC spellings. EBMAS has made a few changes too, so we spell Tsun with a z instead of an s. It is not just because of trademark lawsuits or branding, but because we are different. It is no longer enough to just call it "Wing Chun" as it means 5 or 6 different things now. Other comments in here refer to how vague the label MMA is for the same reason.
@@FightCommentary Dont know how it is in Switzerland but its pretty close to Germany and there is a massive Leung Ting Wing Tsun (WT) association that has WT trademarked and is pretty obnoxious commercialized and widespread. So other schools tried to differentiate themself with the Ving Tsun (VT) spelling used and promoted by the Wong Shun Leung branch, and sometimes Ip Chung (one of Ip mans sons), and Wing Chun (WC) by lesser known branches. That guy could be Wong Shun Leung branch but I´m not 100% sure but he has a good stable basis which is usually a focus of that.
Well i did practice Wing Chun along with many other Kung Fu styles, so i'll try to say what i think about this practitioner. Wing Chun has many kicks, but this person (Just like most Wing Chun practitioners) seems to have only learned the front kick. He is also very passive, i'm going to say this so hear me out: Wing Chun is not a defensive martial art. Trapping, most of the time, is not supposed to be used defensively. If you look at the forms from other martial arts that showcase trapping, you'll see that it is used offensively. The practitioner still gets scared of big over hand strikes from unsafe distances. He can easily stop those by framing at his opponent's arm (which is a trapping move), but instead he gets scared and moves backwards which allows his opponent to get away with it because he does not punish him, not even with kicks or anything else, really. He probably just needs a better teacher and more sparring. Like, how come they never try other kicks and never get inside properly. Plus you aren't supposed to hold on to that Wing Chun stance (which is mainly for when you are wielding butterfly swords) *specially* when you are fighting defensively. Wing Chun literally has a stance that is based around counter attacking and fighting defensively...
@@UnjustVerdict I'm so tired of hearing that. WE KNOW!!!! MMA is a MIXED martial art. It takes a bunch of good martial arts and takes the best bits, making it very effective against individual martial arts. That's the ENTIRE POINT. However, my point isn't that MMA is superior to Wing Chun, it's that it's funny to hear mma fans in the comments using the exact same excuse "the fighter wasn't very good") that they criticise Wing Chun fans for using.
MMA guy wasn't bad, just wing chun guy was pretty good. Thats the way it is supposed to be used. But, what is the real takeaway here? You better know some minimal grappling no matter what😋😋
I think this guy's wing chun is actually really well refined. Even when the mma guy got to be aggressive, most of the time the wing chun dude didn't lose form and was able to apply the ideal technique. Very impressive and looks pretty real to me. But I wanna point out something, I'm gonna say that this mma probably lacks some experience in general and wing chun kinda has some uninitiated bully stuff. In my experience, fighting against a wing chun/kung fu esque guard like that is awkward when you first do it. It has holes obviously but getting around it could be tricky when the dude actually spars and has a sense of distance, framing, fight iq, awaremess. It kinda sets up at times to actively punish you for your some more straight forward approaches and takes a little bit of a different strategy to shake their guard up so you can play your game. Definitely possible, but definitely weird if you haven't tried it before. Of course the more you're experienced and more flexible in your strategies you are you can get around this more, like I specifically have trouble cause as I was learning I would take what I could get persay in terms of technique and try to utilize that so I got trapped in the guard when those didn't work. That being said this guys wing chun still worked even when the dude did get around the guard, plenty of situations where his skill and confidence in his technique got to shine. A lot of itwas definitely legit I think.
They were not capable of intelligently defending themself. They shouldnt be competing, the referee could have stopped the fight "by accident" at pretty much any moment...
At least this guy used kicks where every other wing chun guys legs are just dead weight. And why they lose. We have many tools, just use them already!!!!
26 y of wing experience here: Cool that wing man test himself. In my xp, i avoid entering with chain punches. He does apply entry kicks, to close the gap, but I think its too risky to enter because how easy it is to create angles on you, plus how easy it is to get taken down. Wong sheung leung always taught to create angles before doing entries so you don't risk running into "banana punches". In our school we also never do wing vs wing. So MMA is nothing we are particularly afraid of facing. Weapons and multiple opponents are a far worse threat 🙄
I think wing chun has a lot going for it. But from what I've seen, the problem is most people dont really spar or pressure test which results in a lack of good habits you should have in any fight (chin down, hands up, good positioning, etc.)
The problem also depends on the lineage of the art, the teacher, and especially the practitioner. I'm a wing Chun practitioner since late 90s and also practiced other systems before coming to wing Chun, and I can tell you that it's the responsibility of the practitioner to make sure he trains and learns properly... I have never been to a dojo but at least I test tecnics and systems against sparring partners and explore all possibilities of a real fight. I can make most things work, be it kickboxing, taekwondo, wing Chun, jiu-jitsu, I learned a bit of everything. They all work well, people need to be intelligent at applying each art correctly. Another thing I can say is that I don't recommend wing Chun for beginners because it's a soft style and people need to master hard styles first and only then go practice the soft internal styles (like wing Chun, baguazhang, tang Lang, etc).
Whatever you chose to use, drop your chin! If you are in kicking or punching range you ARE going to get kicked and punched . It's just a matter off time before somebody pushes your lights-out button . You can still maintain structure if that's key to your style and drop your chin.
MMA is always going to have some advantage over any single martial arts, which is the whole point of "mixed martial arts"... it takes the best portions / pieces of all martial arts disciplines.
Ving Tsun is not Vietnamese but the Wing Chun Lineage of Wong Sheun Leung. Check Wong Sheun Leung (aka THe King of the talking hands and also who trained Bruce Lee) and his stundent Philipp Bayer
He had about 3 Wing Chun elements he used well and it worked for him. If he had more of those basic elements he would have shut this guy down faster. If he keeps training and testing, he'll get far better. All so he used his wing chun in the clinch and on the ground even trapping and clearing from the bottom and side (ground). Wing Chun has much that can be fleshed out in this format , but it takes younger generations getting involved. He had some concept of underhooks and sprawling which helped hi a little, if he persists he'll get better.
Most of these wing Chun guys you see getting beat in China are like 55 year olds who never sparred fighting 25 year old professional MMA fighters. Of course they get slaughtered. But there's several MMA fighters who've also incorporated wing Chun style into their fight styles and been successful
I've never heard of fightclub league but it looks pretty impressive with the scenery. If you ever get the chance cheek out Iceland's MMA club, it's top notch and probably the coolest MMA gym you can visit damn near anywhere.
I'm really not trying to take away from the Wing Chun guy's win or his skills, he did well, but the "MMA guy" looks like he learned from watching RUclips
Seems like the MMA guy was not a real pro, however, you could see that the Ving Tsun (VT) guy had sparred. This makes a crusial difference. PS: VT is the Romanization of the Wong Shun Leung branch (Hong Kong, not Vietnam).
wing chun guy def has mma background, the other guy seems new to the sport. in this case I dont think its really a fare comparison. also if wing chun guys wants to take advantage of the martial art hes trying to perform he needs to be more still instead of bouncing around.
the MMA guy was abysmal, but that shouldn't take away anything from the fact that this is one of the rare outliers where a wing chun fighter actually uses wing chun successfully in a fight. It would be great to see him up against a competent striker and see if he was just very lucky here or can this be repeated
Dude. I agree with modern wing chun. I would do the traditional wing chun, but I think I would adapt to something in real fight. I love how this wing chun guy is pretty good
That’s a tough one. I think if I had to play within the rules of the dichotomy you presented, I would choose really strong and know the basics. Once a few punches land, everyone is using their basics, so I’ll take the strength advantage. People like sakuraba who could take on bigger guys who have some skill and win are the exception, not the norm.
What I find odd in the comments section is that I haven't seen anyone saying "that's not real wing chun, real wing chun is supposed to look like sloppy, improvised kickboxing in real life," a common refrain in most wing chun vs. style videos when the wing chun devolves into imitation kickboxing a few seconds in. Which is it, is wing chun supposed to look like wing chun in a fight, or is wing chun supposed to look like bad kickboxing in a fight? One of the big issues in wing chun and similar styles is that there simply is no consensus. As a group, no one seems to agree on anything and it makes it a total free for all in terms of opinions. All BJJ guys can look at this beginner's "armbar" and explain why it was terrible jiujitsu, and we'd all be saying more or less the same thing, which is because the technique is guided by function instead of by tradition, but this seems to be impossible in most CMA.
As a Wing Chun guy, I can see the Wing Chun guy capitalising on the Wing Chun front kick (in the 'Finding Bridge') and the idea of 'Facing the form'. I think it is Wing Chun should be, not the movie Wing Chun taught by those FantaSifues.
Chunner here... I would say they're both not very skilled, lol. The Wing Chun guy looks like he is probably better than the MMA guy. I'm in that 10% that can appreciate what he's doing and how he's handling himself, and I give him props for holding his own while sticking to a traditional WC stance. My Sifu teaches Wing Chun and applications using a boxing approach - traditional boxing guard with your hands up, slipping, hooks. If you're open minded and not a legalist, the fundamentals of WC can be applied to Boxing and Muay Thai; almost everything you see in boxing comes from Wing Chun. If you watch fights throughout the golden age of boxing you can recognize the influence.
how to recognize the influence? ,nothing from boxing came from wing chun,there were records of fights with fists since the time of the Minoan civilization when fighters only used punches in the fight, modern boxing was already practiced in England before wing chun appeared, the rules of Queensberry only formatted how the fight should start and end ,the principles of body positioning, boxing guards, punching styles and techniques, boxing fighting styles, as well as foot and torso movement are unique to boxing, and you trace the boxing fundamentals of the era gold in boxing's ancient history, as well as fights recorded before boxing's heyday began. And as for using wing chun fundamentals, well that's personal taste, wanting to impose rules of the style you like on others is being closed-minded and arrogant
Someday Kung Fu/Chinese Martial Arts practitioners in general will have sparring as a regular part of their training again, I cannot wait for this to happen!
Those knowledgeable about the UFC: Leon and Till are fighting? Upon closer inspection: Experienced something these 2 guys might've experienced here while I was sparring; my cardio and technique improved when I threw strikes like the wacky inflatable tube guy instead of being so stiff during sparring.
MMA fella isn't thinking. The Wing Chun guy has upper body strikes almost completely blocked off - they just don't land. Why not mix in a few kicks or go for a takedown? Great work from the Wing Chun guy, great application in actual fighting!
Actually all wing chun that punches outside the clinch is wrong, it's really a dirty/clinch boxing style that jams wrestling. That's what makes the centerline thing work, is that it's close up, handfighting, and turning the guy while it punches, elbows and sweeps. It's not supposed to be a form of kickboxing
Those legs looked so delicious for calf and leg kicks. So sad the mma guy looks and fights like a drunk uncle - but you take this round, internet wingchhn lovers - until next time 🤣
i'm wingchun practitioner for more than 10 years now... first of all... pretty much as any other martial art in the world... modern WC has adapted to a world full of Mixed techniques. In my school as student we go to an entire anti-takedown program and then an entire ground program... pretty much like most BJJ has incorporated some punching defenses moving from traditional grappling-only. In WC we do not hope to be as good as a BJJ practitioner in the ground, just to have some game and be able to defend ourselfs and recover. As for this fight itself, the WC guy has a little bit too low of a traditional WC arms guard for my taste, nevertheless he has a pretty good defense with Bong-Sau against the hooks the MMA guy throws the entire fight. except for that, i think the WC guy attacks are too linear, he does not try any moves except chain punch and front kick (which is more than ok for self defense but a little bit too basic and telegraphed for a long sparring session against a guy with serious striking habilities) Also foot work is very very basic. As for MMA Guy... he is just bad. No kicks, no real ground game, strikes are very weak, thelegraphed and basic. I'd say that these guys have around one year learning their respective martial art, they still have a lot to learn but they are moving in the correct path that is to keep training and testing their own skills
To many WC practitioners aren’t taught and don’t understand the system to be able to apply it in sparring or fights. Wing chun doesn’t just have straight chain punches. There’s no reason this guy should stick to arrow walking as he’s doing either. His hand shapes and strikes are very basic WC techniques as is his footwork. But on this occasion even the basics seemed to work.
MMA guy really needs to learn how to set up his shots. There's quite few moments where he does a powershot (i.e rear leg kick, cross) without setting it up properly, giving the wing chun guy the opportunity to block it or simply move backwards. Anyway, great work by the Wing Chun guy!
It’s not the Vietnamese wing chun,ving tsun is the original wing chun (not the Leung tin and William cheng wana be wing chun)from Wong sheumg Leung lineage. This is real wing chun.
Ving Tsun is not “the Vietnamese Branch” it’s Yip Man’s preferred spelling of Ving Tsun rather than Wing Chun, because VT is Ving Tsun, WC is Water Closet = Toilet in Hong Kong. Hence the VTAA - Ving Tsun Athletic Association which was founded by Yip Man 4th July 1967. The Jeang Sau hand position is consistent with this, as it’s more aggressive and a weapon rather than being a defensive ready position. The key being to occupy the centre line. The stance is a little unorthodox, but I suspect this is because he’s on soft ground. Does anyone know the lineage? There are details which appear to be Moy Yat lineage. The other thing to note is that any VT guy is severely limited when wearing gloves. Without the gloves his straight punches would be devastating. This guy isn’t just better than the MMA guy, but he is much better. The equipment and rules levelling the playing field.
@@FightCommentary absolutely wonderful, thank you. Till is a super humble guy, which shows the true essence of VT. So he’s Wong Shun-Leung lineage. WSL was a contemporary older brother of Moy Yat before and through the founding of the VTAA, hence details looking familiar. He was also someone that spent time with his Sifu. He was known as King of Talking Hands - so what Till said about fighting was correct. And he was noted for passing much of his Sifu, Yip Man’s kung fu onto Bruce Lee. In your interview when you ask “what is Ving Tsun what is not Ving Tsun?” This is interesting. Moy Yat would say if you are practising centre line, you are practising Ving Tsun. I interpret this to mean if you are practising Siu Lim Tao. Once you have this ingrained any technique that conforms to the principles is VT, because VT becomes moving my body and centreline and every legitimate movement my body can express whilst adhering to those principles, or recapturing those principles. Is grappling VT? Yes, if I’m in that range. But it highlights the need to spend time to not only talk the principles, but to walk them, so to speak. So therefore we can further conclude that time spent with a sifu is critical for a strong lineage, a strong unbroken chain. Where what we are seeing described as VT is not VT is usually because at some point in the chain the link was weak or broken, and then this guy passed down a poor understanding. Overall that was an amazing interview and there are many areas I agree, some I would interpret differently. I don’t wish to be critical, but there were two areas I think my interpretation could be helpful: at the end when talking about falling back on Krav - this highlights the necessity to “play more Siu Lim Tau” - play more forms. Sparring can be helpful, but more forms with correct details are needed to make VT more natural and to not “break the principles” and lose structure. The other point comes to what Till was saying about punches with gloves, and how one can train to counter this. To a degree I agree. But one of the issues is when it comes to power generation. Until one has mastered horse, coordination, one would struggle to gain sufficient knock out power whilst wearing gloves. So the VT practitioner might light up the other guy, but not have powerful enough strikes to defeat him through the inch of armour afforded by the glove. Without the glove the metrics are very different. The younger practitioner still hasn’t cultivated the full potency of Ving Tsun but they have enough to protect themselves with their bare fist. So I think this is an important point to raise. That idea “I hit him in the face and nothing happened” is because the crumple zone in the glove took enough of the impact, that the face didn’t.
This was my whole philosophy right here. I started learning southern style Shaolin from my father and branched out to Wing Chun but learned that most of my sparring ended up too linear to defend and adapt. So I decided to try to learn as much as I could from as many styles as possible, starting with Baguazhang, Tai chi, and Aikido. I also went to a boxing gym to work out with western style defensive boxers. I feel that by not limiting your style to one form or another makes you more adaptable and far more defensive. (Also embarrassed a TKD teacher who clearly was not on my level)
Our conversation with Ving Tsun Til here: ruclips.net/video/AwyFIqNUNRI/видео.html
As a Wing Chun guy, I don't mind saying that we tend to have no ground game. If this MMA guy had any ground game, it would have been over on the first takedown. That said, MMA guy didn't have much boxing technique. Wing Chun guy has decently trained hands (despite being too low) and good ambidexterity, but like most of us, he's got no angles. Didn't matter this time, but it usually will.
I don't wing chun is for sports...i think it's dirty and for street fights
Yea, as a bjj guy it seems like the mma dude in the video learned all his „grappling“ from watching ufc highlights not actually learning them. It seems like he has ideas about what to do, like of an armbar or sidecontrol, but he dosen’t actually know how you do these moves or get into these positions.
Btw how does your wing chun training look like? Just interested because I started out with wing chun, went to takewandoe, then to muay thai and now and probably staying for a long time at grappling/bjj.
To be honost I had bad experiences at the wing chun place. Like the people were nice and all, but it felt like they were all kinda deluding themselves. We never really sparred at all, only did the same slow choreography’s and never anything more than minimal resistance. In spite of that, the coach and the people that have been there for a while, genuinely feel like they can fight or are in anyway competent, wich I just can’t see. Like how tf would anyone know how to drive if they only look at the theory of it, never actually putting themselves in a test drive or training to actually drive.
Anyways I’m just interested in what other peoples experiences with it are like, because it seems like it can vary a lot.
Sry for my big ass rant lol :)
Yeah as a brown belt in bjj and mma fighter I can confidently say that “mma guy” has very little training in both stand up and ground game. Not hating on him I’m just saying what I see.
I agree, if WC guy was more proactive on taking advantageous positions he'd be more dangerous. Also, agree that his hands gotta be higher.
@@ethanmanjhi4007 I would bet there are "dirty" moves in just about any style. I agree that things like eye gouges (of which there are several kinds in Wing Chun) don't belong in sport, but there are several core principles of Wing Chun I'd like to see more of in the UFC. Ambidexterity is a great example. Most MMA fighters live in one stance. They're trained to switch primarily in the context of creating unpredictable attacks, but occasionally you see fighters who switch much more often. Those who can do it fluidly with high frequency tend to dominate center octagon position. If anyone would just treat UFC like Moneyball, they'd have clear stats proving a stark correlation between ambidexterous footwork and octagon control. I'd never claim Wing Chun is the only way to develop that ambidexterity, but I can confidently say that any MMA fighter who trains Wing Chun for a year will improve their ambidexterity.
There's actually a lot of useful and effective stuff in wing chun and other kung fu styles; you just have to be able to strike, grapple and wrestle to apply these martial arts
Yeah. But that only happebs because they do not spar!
I have done an experiment before (3 times!) that kind of prove my point.
First, You get any number (above 1) of guys that are crazy enough to go with the experiment, then you give them a ruleset from any combat sport (i have done it with Boxing, Kick Boxing and Muay Thai rules), have them do some light workouts and then give them the necessary equipment for them to spar (boxing or MMA gloves, mouth pieces, cups, etc) and make them spar under the ruleset that you gave them around 5 times a day, around 4 days a week, for at least 2 weeks; but keep in mind that sparring and streching are the only things that you are going to make them do. It is important that you do not allow any of them to inmediately spar again after they finish a sparring session, instead tell them to think about what they did and what they could have done, but *do not* tell them what they did wrong.
Probably nobody on this commen section will do such a crazy thing so i'll give you the results that i got every time:
People that knew how to fight even without any training, without teaching them what a Jab is, without teaching them a proper boxing guard, how to clinch properly. Even without teaching them any of that, they always got decent/good enough at it in only 2 weeks. Just by sparring a lot.
So imagine having that plus any martial arts training. No wonder that the most succesful styles are the ones that spar and fight the most (Boxing, Muay Thai, Judo, BJJ, many forms of wrestling, Shuai Jiao, kickboxing, etc...)
I do wonder if people will pay attention to that reply. I consider such knowledge, really, really important.
Unless you're some fighting genious, you will need sparring. And even if you are indeed a fighting genious, you will need sparring to get certain things down.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 yeah I agree, definately sparring IS key; even wild animals spar with eachother to practice fighting and hunting skills. However even when wild lions or wild tigers spar they don't injure eachother, they cannot risk injury when they have to literally fight to survive. Sparring is 100% necessary, you just gotta have good sparring partners
@@stephanwatson7902 true true, that's why you, a trained fighter must be supervising them.
@@jestfullgremblim8002 well I know how to fight and spar, but I'm certainly not a trained fighter
Interesting that the WC guy stuck to WC and didn't throw in boxing punches or karate/TKD kicks (not that I'm against mixing styles) and still won. I think this is a good representation of how fairly-competent WC fighting would look like against a similarly-skilled MMA fighter.
I think as a fighter, wc guy is much more experienced. Mma guy is not good at stand up or grappling.
@@Hawidaku I agree that MMA guy is not disciplined. Movements are slow, and he's giving WC guy access to his back in multiple occasions.
@@danmatakizawa Slow, predictable and easily frustrated. You could see the WC guy realize this early in the fight and gain confidence. MMA guy had no idea how to adapt.
He won via ground and pound?
He doesn't show good wing Chun, but at least he isn't completely incompetent in fighting. The mma guy is clearly even worse as a fighter. I say that the wing Chun guy doesn't show good wing Chun, because I am a wing Chun practitioner and I know what I'm talking about... Maybe he is way better, but he didn't want to use it much, otherwise he could hurt the opponent... And I really admire the respect he had for the opponent, he wasn't really trying to hurt him at all. Actually both fighters had that mentality.
The paring of skill levels made this an enjoyable fight to watch. Praise/Credit is due for the management that set it up.
The Wing Chun guy has definitely sparred
Well you've seen my fight and know I also incorporate a lot of CMA and Wing Chun into my MMA fighting style too. So my thoughts are pretty clear, there's plenty there that works so long as you actually pressure test it, spar with it and train it realistically. It can frustrate someone who isn't used to fighting that way. Though I think the biggest weakness of the MMA guy here was that he lost his composure very early and then started using desperation attacks which in turn depleted his stamina. At that point he was just putty. His heads probably spinning and he's just trying to hang on (He's also crossing his stance a lot, which is a beginners mistake, though with him being rocked he could have just regressed to that).
Composure and patience are very key to fights man. Don't always try to go for the first round finish. Don't lose it at the first sign that it's not going your way. Just relax, breath and try to patiently find those openings. Also, when and where with the hooks guys. Hooks are short range weapons. If the other guy has decent straights and knows what he's doing (and the Wing Chun guy did) then he's going to beat you to the punch against that hook.
Really impressed with that Wing Chun lad. He did everything right. He kept his patience, read his opponent, stayed composed and ultimately out striked the fellow. More of this people. An absolute pleasure to see people making those CMA's work and proving that with the right mind set you can be lethal with that stuff.
As a Wing Chun practitioner, I can say without a doubt that this is the best video I have seen on the internet where Wing Chun is applied in a real fight. I would love to see more Wing Chun practitioners coming out and testing their skills. It's an amazing art and really looked down upon because of fake so called masters and practitioners. Thanks for the awesome content.
This video is rubbish. There are far better videos. Wing Chun vs Karate they fight real fights against a karate school
@@808frontline Please provide links as I would love to check them out. Thanks
Yip Man and Bruce Lee weren't fake
@@nelsonmcatee3721 all I know is Joe Lewis was a heavy weight full contact kickboxing champion and he challenged Bruce Lee then quickly became Bruce Lees student.
Joe Lewis has both video recordings and written testimony saying that Bruce Lee was a beast and in hi words could shell shock a man with his front hand.
For all those wing chunners looking for more power in their strikes, and stronger, more robust overall body structure, you need to look into effective martial 'zhan zhuang' - like that taught by Yao Zongxun lineage of Yiquan kungfu, for example. This is what your 'goat stance' is supposed to be providing you with. You find zhan zhuang 'standing post/pile' training in Gao baguazhang, and Chen taiji. It's an ancient Taoist yoga for martial arts, but can also be used for general health cultivation also.
Perhaps you remember your teacher saying the goat stance alone should be trained for at least 18 months, or something like that? Well, in my experience, this is the reason why - because your punching will lack that powerful whole body connection that people like Tyson has with his hooks, and that someone like McGregor seems to have. In Western boxing, powerful punchers are often treated as mysterious gods - because some people are just born with good whole body connection to the ground that facilitates such striking from an early stage of their training (in Chinese Kungfu, this is called 'hunyuan skill'). But Zhan zhuang / goat stance training offers that power to everyone - it just takes at least 2 years practice for at least 1 hour daily. That's why you're likely hearing this for the first time! 😅 People just don't have the time, dedication, and suitable teacher to point out correct structure and its development. But good teachers are slowly making their way out of China to the west these days. If you meet one, you are a very lucky person!
Also, take note of how the wing chun guy in the vid here generally applied constant pressure to his opponent - forcing him to try random attack strategies before he could test potentials. That is wing chun spirit - to constantly march in and 'suffocate' opponent as if in a phonebooth - with the intent of gaining a 'bind' situation (that's what it's called when swords lock on a battlefield), from which they can then work trapping and elbows, etc. Elbow is in fact wing chun's reliable core KO strike - and so that's the intended game-finisher. In the above vid, the MMA guy kept good enough distance under the pressure, so didn't get trapped much, and perhaps they agreed to not use elbows, anyway. But you can see how the wing chunner's pure intent to constantly march forward was apparently the ultimate winning factor. The MMA guy did seem generally less experienced, but he eventually appeared to feel suffocated and gave up.
When a guy from MMA sucks everybody it's like "it's not a real MMA practicioner"
But when a Wing Chun practicioner sucks it's clearly a Wing Chun practicioner.
pfffff 💀
Lmao.
You will always get people saying "that's not real wing chun" tho. And i kinda support them
Yeah Right it's usually the other way around
It's because we have professional settings like the UFC, One Championship, etc to show us what high level MMA skill looks like. You can compare low level fighters in unsanctioned sparring matches to the MMA athletes in high level events and see how their skills match up.
Thats not the case with Wing Chun. What does a high level WC fighter actually look like? That's why people always blame WC as a style over the practitioner.
I personally like WC and think it has some good concepts that actually work in a live environment. But WC on its own is limited and not a complete fighting system.
@@georgeraphael5181 you say wing Chun isn't a complete fighting system. So tell me what is a complete fighting system. If you say it isn't a complete fighting system, then I can say nothing is a complete system either... Boxing, bjj, muay thai, and all the others aren't complete either. It also depends on the wing Chun lineage... For example, wing Tsung lineage from Leung Ting has ground fighting (some basics at least) and anti take downs, sparring, etc.
I think a lot of people tend to automaticaly assume that if someone trains MMA, they'll do well in any fight, and the converse for people who train in a more "traditional" martial art. But in my experience of training with people of different skill level, athleticism, and fighting instinct, I know that this is very very variable and depends more on the individual and the kind of work they put in.
I generally agree. I wonder at what point in their respective journeys they are though. The red gloves is literally all over the place from a foundational technical perspective and look like they have trained under 6mths. No idea on the wing chun proponent.
True - it's the fighter over the style. Because as soon as the fighter sees something useful from another style, and which overlaps with their own style in a useful way, then there isn't really any style existing anymore, really. There's just insightful fighters.
@@Erime although training methods often dictate how effective a person's use of a styles technical repertoire can be. In turn this affects technical knowledge, teaching ability and curriculum. I think ideology and pedagogy are very important factors. It's why some styles consistently turn out capable combatants as the norm and some as the notable exceptions. I think both people in this clip look very unskilled: time *may* be a factor, so might individual approach but surely they aren't the only ones.
@@catscradle1921 agreed. By style I mean the overarching fighting 'philosophy'/strategy and its accompanying motifs or 'signature moves'. At the end of the day, though, it's whatever works, isn't it - and that can include putting in time on certain skills, and sparring, of course. I was just watching a video about Michel Pereira in UFC - who does some flashy capoeira, but started out in karate and jiujitsu. And someone in the comments said it's his solid muay thai that ultimately wins his matches 🤣. I think his general style and strategy is that he enjoys fighting and stays fluid, personally - and, yes, he's put the time in and explored all areas of MMA skills - probably with a great coach/peer group, also.
@@Erime absolutely.
"Wing Chun saved me many times inside and outside the octagon" (Anderson "Spider" Silva)
For the MMA guy. Having his hooks get blocked and then take 2-3 punches back immediately by the WC guy, even if he defends them well, has to be demoralizing when it happens over and over.
Yep. Quantity can totally mess with someone psychologically by itself.
He should have went for a takedown after that.
I actually see a lot of what the WC guy does in our training. Pretty cool to see wing chun adapted for a ringfighting context without just looking more or less like kickboxing
I am practitioner in WC, Krav, Bang MT, mantis, and Hung Gar. I will comment from both WC and MMA perspective. MMA guy did not have good ground game and his stand up game did not have fluid combo that change sides which would have caused issues for WC guy.
WC guy maintained good distance management that allowed him to connect and execute WC attacks. For WC folks, he had Chim Kiu distance. That’s how my WC dojo train in sparring. WC guy leg frame to kick out of armbar was brilliant. Never seen that before. At 430 when WC guy had MMA guy head down, he missed Chim Kiu head control takedown opportunity to finish. But that was Monday QB observation
what do you mean with change sides?
@turtle_enthousiast good MT or kickboxing combinations sometimes would switch to southpaw stance to deliver kicks, cross, hook or intercept opponent lateral movement. That creates angles and width in your combinations. Bang MT does that regularly
@@katze97 thanks for the explanation. i had no idea👍
Center centric approach 😄
Wing Chun people: Atlast, the chosen one is born, our light and our hope..
Xu Xiaodong: (Waiting for a wingchun and taichi folks that can beat him and his MMA)
I think Xiaodong only has in issue with wing chun/taiji masters who claim they can beat any MMA fighter with their chi powers. I think even he would respect people who put in the physical work and learn how to actually fight.
i'm sure he has been beaten by tai ji guys before, he was a sanda fighter before and plenty of taiji people have trained at his gym and some of them are really good wrestlers.
@@emilianosintarias7337 One Taiji even can win against Xu Xiaodong's student just for wrestling match, there's a video on that, it can't even move his student as they wrestle and just being lead into submission..
@@emilianosintarias7337 Yup, most Kung Fu styles were developed for mid-range combat ((probably to be implemented after losing your primary weapon)), which inevitably is a blend of grappling and inside strikes utilizing hands, forearms, knees, head, hips, shoulders, feet, elbows, and very little if any blocking, which would make sense assuming your opponent was probably still in possession of their weapon or had managed somehow to snatch yours, and blocking large edge weapons is pretty much a non-option.
@@mmurmurjohnson2368 Only in movies it all happened, watch how Xu xiaodong's student humiliate those taiji guy who can't even bring his opponent upside down and after minutes passed, he gasp and run out of stamina, Xu xiaodong's student just played him like a stuff toy.
Good golly did the "mma" guy sucked.
His takedowns (while they don't need to look beautiful) looked like garbage.
He needs a crash course on side control, and that he needs to be told it's okay to strike in side control to get your armbar.
His striking was bad too
@@pangopod2969 If you take out the atrocious haymakers, his striking was.. passable?
If he just had better grappling he would've had that fight in the bag.
Throw out the idea of a submission, and only leave the ground and pound, he would be fine.
But alas...
@@AGuy-s5v That guy probably never heard of footwork, none of his strikes were sharps, he had no guard, he was sloppy, had no head movement, no control of the "ring", he used no feints, his kicks could be outskilled by a systema practionner, he used no set up either to strike or to enter the clinch...
@@pangopod2969 I'm not arguing that his striking is somehow good.
I'm just saying that in MMA, especially considering his current opponent they he really doesn't need to be a better striker.
It helps to have better striking, no doubt about that.
However, he could have clearly won if he just had better control on the ground, and a more solid takedown game.
@@AGuy-s5v Ho sorry.
You're right but i'm not sure if he could represent MMA if he sacrificed his striking training for wrestling. (Well he failed anyway but if he's indeed training MMA, he tried)
A fauxhawk is when you don't shave the sides but spike the middle up. This is a cropped mohawk: the sides are shaved. This is the kind of mohawk the US Marines used to give themselves when they were going into battle in WW2. Cool stuff.
Oh! I get it now. Thanks for this! Always wondered! Heard the term since college but never knew til now!
It's been a while since I last watched any of your videos, but I'm back to watch this one.
Wing Chun guy did awesome.
Thank you for sharing ☺️.
Well the wing chun dude surely has sparred, his technique/gameplan doesn't fall apart at the first punch taken to the face, and he pressed forward as you are taught in wing chun, he did quite well too in the clinch. That being said, he pretty much had only 1 thing in his arsenal: chain punching and front kicks. The fact that the mma guy couldn't adjust to it and counter appropriately to this very simple tactic... well doesn't look good on him. Props to the wing chun fella for testing himself and actually pressure test, he came in way more prepared for a fight than most wing chun guys we have seen in the channel, but to be honest, his oponent was pretty damn bad. Super telegraphed punching, haymakers and bad grappling.
But hey fair is fair, often times is the other way around, but his is a rare case of a combat sport representative being worse than a very traditional and by the book martial artist. The mma guy still deserves respect for putting himself out there as all fighters do.
Feliz Año Nuevo!
@@FightCommentary feliz año nuevo to you Jerry! I hope you had a great holiday 😁
Low blocks are great against wrist control, I use them all the time in wrestling!
They work great in light karate sparring at blocking kicks at least, so it makes sense that they're good against weaker kicks.
In the slo-mo you can also see that he blocks it at the very tip of his foot, making the lever as long as possible.
In karate, I've been taught to either do that, or hammerfist the knee (which I'm skeptical of, but with gloves maybe less so if you're accurate with good timing).
I used to have my hands around my chest in wing chun, but I realized they were meant to be face height after sparring.
If this wing chun guy had his hands higher, he would have a better time defending against those face punches
It’s similar to the old school boxing stance. I heard they kept the hand low to protect the body because old school boxers didn’t go for head shots all the time because they didn’t wear gloves.
This really is a low level statement. As if you just sparred for the first time, got hit and figured out to keep your hands up.
The low elbow position and guard enhances your techniques due to the elbow/waist connection. The more you raise your hands the weaker your techniques become. Also people tend to punch straight whenever they raise their guard whilst they should maintain an upward angle so the force is redirected to the ground and doesnt get stuck in their shoulder.
The Wing-Chun guard is more of a concept than a fixed position meant to block strikes. The guy in this video kept his training position instead of using it as an active guard. He only did single direct attacks. No effort to bait his opponent at all.
That is because it is ving tsun and not wing chun, they have a lower stance.
@@MrCincin13 ving tsun is a spelling used by different vietnamese lineages of wing-chun as well as some ip man lineages like wong shun leung and moy yat. The techniques of these lineages vary, this means you can't specify certain technical aspects like stance or guard to the ving-tsun spelling.
@@florisvanlingen Everywhere that I have seen a club or gym or a dojo or whatever you would call it, that was named ving tsun, had a lower guard compared to wing chun clubs.
The payoff in the wing chun guy's training seems to be in his base and structure. He's incredibly stable. Too much stalking though - a better counterpuncher would have capitalized on that. Also, Ving Tsun usually denotes the Ip family (Chun and Ching) or Wong Shun Leung. Maybe Korean though, idk.
Agreed, but I read that stalking and not pressing the issue are staples of Wing Chun, break posture to chase your opponent and your triangular structural power envelope falls apart, it's better usually ((but not always)) to maintain it, especially if your opponent's super intent on striking you. I kinda think aside from the fact that this guy actually conditions and spars, that his ability to maintain his base structure under actual heavy fire that made him more able to preemptively sense and brush off those hooks.
Ving Tsun is Leung Ting's lineage from the Y(Ip) man "both spellings are correct since it's Cantonese/Mandarin characters (not letters)!
@@mazenkaiser7234 You are mistaken. "Ving-Tsun" is a spelling that is supposedly more correct than Wing-Chun. Might have to do something with WC standing for toilet. Anyways Leung Ting adopts the "Wing Tsun" spelling. Ving-Tsun is very often the Wong Shun Leung lineage as is the case with this guy. I have actually sparred with this guy's teacher a few times and practice in the same lineage.
@@florisvanlingen You are the one who is confused. I stated *Yip* and *Ip* man are both correct *spellings* since both names are expressed in *Chinese characters not phoenetic letters.*
My statement on *Ving-Tsun is that it is simply Leung Ting's lineage under (Y)Ip mon.* You are however correct in the fact that *Leung Ting changed the Wades Guile constanants of "W" "C" to "V" "T".* You see in Europe in the 1970's *WC was a common abbreviation for "Water Closet" European acronym for "bathroom".*
But the *"Pronunciation in Cantonese is "Wing-chun" not "Ving-Tsun" just a "German phoenetic."*
@@florisvanlingen *"Wong Sheung Leung"* uses the *Cantonese Pronunciation of Wing-chun. You are speaking to a 5th generation sifu, under Ben Der/Kenneth Chun who was under both "Wong Sheung Lueng" "Ben Deer's" family tree and "Leung Sheung" Kenneth Chun's family Tree. Both are the oldest family tree's splitting from Yip mon as "they are both his first two students" Leung Ting was a younger brother of Wong Sheung Leung and he changed (Leung Ting) the name of his family tree in Germany due to what I just told you.*
finally a fight where the WC guy is not someone with 0 physical form, and completely scared of receiving a punch vs a beast that have been in a lot of fights
Enjoyed that fight - and great commentary
"Ving tsun" was how they spelled it in Hong Kong back when it was a British colony. The initials Wc in Britain was wash closet, another name for a toilet.
Everybody needs to realize that wing chun has hooks and uppercuts (!) in the chi sao sections, its a system which combines trapping and redirecting techniques with punches and ellbows from ANY ANGLE, get used to it!
I feel like mma guy was pretty flaily at times. And I hate to say that, because I dislike how people will always say "well it's only because the mma fighter sucked!" whenever a tma fighter wins regardless of whether that's why they won, and I do think people underestimate the usefulness of Ving Tsun/Wing Chung/other tmas, but in this case I do think mma guy's perhaps lower skill level was a factor.
You are right. I can also say that the wing Chun guy wasn't using much of the art, but at least he had good distance control and other stryking skills. Both fighters were respectful to each other (I admire that) but the fight could be more intense / agressive.
This is a perfect example of how wing chun application works against an MMA fighter...if it was bruce lee...the fight would have been over within 5 seconds
I certainly believe all styles can potentially do well as long as there is "liveness" in training.
First time I've ever seen a wing Chun win a fight
When i trained jiu jiutsu back in the days(before BJJ was a thing outside Brazil) i had a coach who whenever he saw you do to obvious misstakes in sparing yelled out "why did he get out of your hold!?" And if you didnt have a good answer he had you drill the exact sequence where you failed.
The most common reason he yelled to beginners was that they left lots of air between themself and the opponent in the ground game.
This MMA-guy llooked almost as if he intentionally tried to do side control etc with as much air as possible.
My old coach would think it was a bad joke if anyone but a beginner did it like that.
Yep
Haha I love the commentary on this.
Rare to see a wing chun guy fighting who has done actual sparring. You fight how you train and im guessing WC is not his only system. Kudos to him
I love it! Thank you Ving Tsun Guy!
I like how he’s chasing the centreline and not chasing the hands, a lot of WC masters that are not good developed a habit called chasing hands, which is still a flaw till this day.
Its cool to see somebody work some wing chun, I love wing chun, but it doesn't look like he has evolved it. He adapted it into a fighting style, but still looks like he's still looks like he is very limited. When I used to do some sparing and mostly Wing Chun core, I kept my hands higher and set on my hips to build power in straight punches. Chain punches are only good for when you are trying to force a full cover up to take advantage, but they are very dangerous when using against a competent opponent as chain punches put you in a rhythm that can be exploited.
SOMETHING TO NOTE
I think we should all remember that some people who say they "do MMA" really just go to an MMA gym that teaches very surface level aspects of kick boxing/wrestling/joint locks/etc.
Yeah as a brown belt in bjj and mma fighter I can confidently say that “mma guy” has very little training in both stand up and ground game. Not hating on him I’m just saying what I see.
In that same way a lot of Wing Chun people go to schools that also teach very surface level stuff. It's just that that surface level stuff is much more prevalent in WC than it is among MMA gyms
@@Hawidaku It all depends on the individual and how they train. Some people join an mma gym and only come to class once a week. The rest of the time they lay back and watch t.v. at home. Same as a martial art school.
wrong name, the correct name is wing chun
Take a look at adam mizner
Oh wow. This is some orthodox ass wing chun. I mean textbook student grade stuff. I mean you can't dispute that this is a wing chun practitioner whether he win or loose the fight. He just simply is. Def has some experience too
Good fight. I noticed a lot of Wing Chun guys don't use Bon Sao. Wonder why? Seems quite natural to use it if someone is attacking you. You can jam their punches.
We're seeing more Wing Chun guys stepping up and testing their shit. I'm here for it
4:33 Wing chun guy with great defense! uses both arms to cover a wild left hook, then reaches out with the left, to parry a right hook, then pushes away the follow left. Classic wing chun right there
thank god the wingchun guy had some grappling experience otherwise that would've looked really bad after the takedown. NICE
True that!
This is the Ip Ching and Ip Chun (Sons of Ip Man) branch of Ving Tsun from Hong Kong. The German one is Leung Ting's Wing Tsun thru Emin Boztepe. The different spellings are done because of trademark lawsuits.... in the end, all Wing Chun is Wing Chun regardless of spelling!
So it’s trademark related… interesting!
@@FightCommentary Ving Tsun is the official name of the Yip Man Hong Kong historical wing chun and any others whose Sifu was a teacher under Yip Man, while Wing Tsun is for the European version, which is Dr. Leung Ting's students spread worldwide. Some VT schools came from Sifu's who left Hong Kong in the 1960's such as GM Moy Yat...Then we have the WC spellings. EBMAS has made a few changes too, so we spell Tsun with a z instead of an s. It is not just because of trademark lawsuits or branding, but because we are different. It is no longer enough to just call it "Wing Chun" as it means 5 or 6 different things now. Other comments in here refer to how vague the label MMA is for the same reason.
Wong Shun Leung lineage also uses the VT spelling.
@@FightCommentary Dont know how it is in Switzerland but its pretty close to Germany and there is a massive Leung Ting Wing Tsun (WT) association that has WT trademarked and is pretty obnoxious commercialized and widespread.
So other schools tried to differentiate themself with the Ving Tsun (VT) spelling used and promoted by the Wong Shun Leung branch, and sometimes Ip Chung (one of Ip mans sons), and Wing Chun (WC) by lesser known branches.
That guy could be Wong Shun Leung branch but I´m not 100% sure but he has a good stable basis which is usually a focus of that.
This is what Qi La La taught if he wanted anyone else to prove if Wing Chun was good for the ring.
Well i did practice Wing Chun along with many other Kung Fu styles, so i'll try to say what i think about this practitioner.
Wing Chun has many kicks, but this person (Just like most Wing Chun practitioners) seems to have only learned the front kick.
He is also very passive, i'm going to say this so hear me out: Wing Chun is not a defensive martial art. Trapping, most of the time, is not supposed to be used defensively. If you look at the forms from other martial arts that showcase trapping, you'll see that it is used offensively.
The practitioner still gets scared of big over hand strikes from unsafe distances. He can easily stop those by framing at his opponent's arm (which is a trapping move), but instead he gets scared and moves backwards which allows his opponent to get away with it because he does not punish him, not even with kicks or anything else, really.
He probably just needs a better teacher and more sparring. Like, how come they never try other kicks and never get inside properly. Plus you aren't supposed to hold on to that Wing Chun stance (which is mainly for when you are wielding butterfly swords) *specially* when you are fighting defensively.
Wing Chun literally has a stance that is based around counter attacking and fighting defensively...
Actually Wing chun has a lot of techniques whose can control opponent's arms. That should be the meaning of chi sao
I played the Ip Man theme while watching this lol
Mma fanboys: yeah, but the mma guy wasn't very good!
Wingchun: ah. Now you see the problem.
@@UnjustVerdict I'm so tired of hearing that.
WE KNOW!!!!
MMA is a MIXED martial art. It takes a bunch of good martial arts and takes the best bits, making it very effective against individual martial arts. That's the ENTIRE POINT.
However, my point isn't that MMA is superior to Wing Chun, it's that it's funny to hear mma fans in the comments using the exact same excuse "the fighter wasn't very good") that they criticise Wing Chun fans for using.
Mma fanboys will keep barking no matter what
MMA guy wasn't bad, just wing chun guy was pretty good. Thats the way it is supposed to be used. But, what is the real takeaway here? You better know some minimal grappling no matter what😋😋
I think this guy's wing chun is actually really well refined. Even when the mma guy got to be aggressive, most of the time the wing chun dude didn't lose form and was able to apply the ideal technique. Very impressive and looks pretty real to me. But I wanna point out something, I'm gonna say that this mma probably lacks some experience in general and wing chun kinda has some uninitiated bully stuff. In my experience, fighting against a wing chun/kung fu esque guard like that is awkward when you first do it. It has holes obviously but getting around it could be tricky when the dude actually spars and has a sense of distance, framing, fight iq, awaremess. It kinda sets up at times to actively punish you for your some more straight forward approaches and takes a little bit of a different strategy to shake their guard up so you can play your game. Definitely possible, but definitely weird if you haven't tried it before. Of course the more you're experienced and more flexible in your strategies you are you can get around this more, like I specifically have trouble cause as I was learning I would take what I could get persay in terms of technique and try to utilize that so I got trapped in the guard when those didn't work. That being said this guys wing chun still worked even when the dude did get around the guard, plenty of situations where his skill and confidence in his technique got to shine. A lot of itwas definitely legit I think.
That was cool. Forget the comments here talking about how they're low skilled, it was good to watch.
They were not capable of intelligently defending themself. They shouldnt be competing, the referee could have stopped the fight "by accident" at pretty much any moment...
At least this guy used kicks where every other wing chun guys legs are just dead weight. And why they lose. We have many tools, just use them already!!!!
26 y of wing experience here:
Cool that wing man test himself.
In my xp, i avoid entering with chain punches. He does apply entry kicks, to close the gap, but I think its too risky to enter because how easy it is to create angles on you, plus how easy it is to get taken down.
Wong sheung leung always taught to create angles before doing entries so you don't risk running into "banana punches".
In our school we also never do wing vs wing. So MMA is nothing we are particularly afraid of facing. Weapons and multiple opponents are a far worse threat 🙄
I'm a Judoka. Both of them have bad grappling. Their striking is okay. I think this is how wing Chun is supposed to work. It looked good.
I think wing chun has a lot going for it. But from what I've seen, the problem is most people dont really spar or pressure test which results in a lack of good habits you should have in any fight (chin down, hands up, good positioning, etc.)
The problem also depends on the lineage of the art, the teacher, and especially the practitioner. I'm a wing Chun practitioner since late 90s and also practiced other systems before coming to wing Chun, and I can tell you that it's the responsibility of the practitioner to make sure he trains and learns properly... I have never been to a dojo but at least I test tecnics and systems against sparring partners and explore all possibilities of a real fight. I can make most things work, be it kickboxing, taekwondo, wing Chun, jiu-jitsu, I learned a bit of everything. They all work well, people need to be intelligent at applying each art correctly. Another thing I can say is that I don't recommend wing Chun for beginners because it's a soft style and people need to master hard styles first and only then go practice the soft internal styles (like wing Chun, baguazhang, tang Lang, etc).
Whatever you chose to use, drop your chin! If you are in kicking or punching range you ARE going to get kicked and punched . It's just a matter off time before somebody pushes your lights-out button . You can still maintain structure if that's key to your style and drop your chin.
MMA is always going to have some advantage over any single martial arts, which is the whole point of "mixed martial arts"... it takes the best portions / pieces of all martial arts disciplines.
That mma guy doesnt even know how to throw a punch
Ving Tsun is not Vietnamese but the Wing Chun Lineage of Wong Sheun Leung. Check Wong Sheun Leung (aka THe King of the talking hands and also who trained Bruce Lee) and his stundent Philipp Bayer
Both fighters showed great respect. Good match at that level 👍
He had about 3 Wing Chun elements he used well and it worked for him. If he had more of those basic elements he would have shut this guy down faster. If he keeps training and testing, he'll get far better. All so he used his wing chun in the clinch and on the ground even trapping and clearing from the bottom and side (ground). Wing Chun has much that can be fleshed out in this format , but it takes younger generations getting involved. He had some concept of underhooks and sprawling which helped hi a little, if he persists he'll get better.
Most of these wing Chun guys you see getting beat in China are like 55 year olds who never sparred fighting 25 year old professional MMA fighters. Of course they get slaughtered. But there's several MMA fighters who've also incorporated wing Chun style into their fight styles and been successful
Who ? And why I would practice Wing Chun to incoporate 2% of this garbage ?
I've never heard of fightclub league but it looks pretty impressive with the scenery. If you ever get the chance cheek out Iceland's MMA club, it's top notch and probably the coolest MMA gym you can visit damn near anywhere.
Can you send me a link? I’ll take a look!
I'm really not trying to take away from the Wing Chun guy's win or his skills, he did well, but the "MMA guy" looks like he learned from watching RUclips
That mma guy is the same with me. I'm a beginner and he's also a beginner.... you can't win to mma if you're wing chung.
Seems like the MMA guy was not a real pro, however, you could see that the Ving Tsun (VT) guy had sparred. This makes a crusial difference. PS: VT is the Romanization of the Wong Shun Leung branch (Hong Kong, not Vietnam).
wing chun guy def has mma background, the other guy seems new to the sport. in this case I dont think its really a fare comparison. also if wing chun guys wants to take advantage of the martial art hes trying to perform he needs to be more still instead of bouncing around.
If you want a style vs style battle, then at least let them train more than a few months.
the MMA guy was abysmal, but that shouldn't take away anything from the fact that this is one of the rare outliers where a wing chun fighter actually uses wing chun successfully in a fight. It would be great to see him up against a competent striker and see if he was just very lucky here or can this be repeated
Dude. I agree with modern wing chun. I would do the traditional wing chun, but I think I would adapt to something in real fight. I love how this wing chun guy is pretty good
I am in contact with them so I will tell them.
Imagine if he practice his defense takedown, and some counters. It’d be cool
Would you rather be really skilled in one martial art or really buff and strong and know the basics?
That’s a tough one. I think if I had to play within the rules of the dichotomy you presented, I would choose really strong and know the basics. Once a few punches land, everyone is using their basics, so I’ll take the strength advantage. People like sakuraba who could take on bigger guys who have some skill and win are the exception, not the norm.
@@FightCommentary cool
What I find odd in the comments section is that I haven't seen anyone saying "that's not real wing chun, real wing chun is supposed to look like sloppy, improvised kickboxing in real life," a common refrain in most wing chun vs. style videos when the wing chun devolves into imitation kickboxing a few seconds in. Which is it, is wing chun supposed to look like wing chun in a fight, or is wing chun supposed to look like bad kickboxing in a fight? One of the big issues in wing chun and similar styles is that there simply is no consensus. As a group, no one seems to agree on anything and it makes it a total free for all in terms of opinions. All BJJ guys can look at this beginner's "armbar" and explain why it was terrible jiujitsu, and we'd all be saying more or less the same thing, which is because the technique is guided by function instead of by tradition, but this seems to be impossible in most CMA.
Nunca subestime nenhuma arte marcial.
Please do a collab with 尋找中國功夫. That guy is a treasure trove on the history and development of the fighting arts in China.
This is awesome. Check out Kevin Lee he incorporates jeet kune do with MMA
Telegraphing + lack of straight striking + no feints = loss
MMA is mixed martial arts, your opponent is strong here, you attack there.
As a Wing Chun guy, I can see the Wing Chun guy capitalising on the Wing Chun front kick (in the 'Finding Bridge') and the idea of 'Facing the form'. I think it is Wing Chun should be, not the movie Wing Chun taught by those FantaSifues.
German Wing Tsun definitely has a straight kick like a stomp to the knee.
Chunner here...
I would say they're both not very skilled, lol. The Wing Chun guy looks like he is probably better than the MMA guy.
I'm in that 10% that can appreciate what he's doing and how he's handling himself, and I give him props for holding his own while sticking to a traditional WC stance.
My Sifu teaches Wing Chun and applications using a boxing approach - traditional boxing guard with your hands up, slipping, hooks.
If you're open minded and not a legalist, the fundamentals of WC can be applied to Boxing and Muay Thai; almost everything you see in boxing comes from Wing Chun. If you watch fights throughout the golden age of boxing you can recognize the influence.
@Hogu Ho Mostly Raw Garden
how to recognize the influence? ,nothing from boxing came from wing chun,there were records of fights with fists since the time of the Minoan civilization when fighters only used punches in the fight, modern boxing was already practiced in England before wing chun appeared, the rules of Queensberry only formatted how the fight should start and end ,the principles of body positioning, boxing guards, punching styles and techniques, boxing fighting styles, as well as foot and torso movement are unique to boxing, and you trace the boxing fundamentals of the era gold in boxing's ancient history, as well as fights recorded before boxing's heyday began.
And as for using wing chun fundamentals, well that's personal taste, wanting to impose rules of the style you like on others is being closed-minded and arrogant
When you both select the same fighter on Tekken
They both looked about the same skill level, interesting fight.
Someday Kung Fu/Chinese Martial Arts practitioners in general will have sparring as a regular part of their training again, I cannot wait for this to happen!
Those knowledgeable about the UFC: Leon and Till are fighting?
Upon closer inspection:
Experienced something these 2 guys might've experienced here while I was sparring; my cardio and technique improved when I threw strikes like the wacky inflatable tube guy instead of being so stiff during sparring.
MMA fella isn't thinking. The Wing Chun guy has upper body strikes almost completely blocked off - they just don't land. Why not mix in a few kicks or go for a takedown? Great work from the Wing Chun guy, great application in actual fighting!
Actually all wing chun that punches outside the clinch is wrong, it's really a dirty/clinch boxing style that jams wrestling. That's what makes the centerline thing work, is that it's close up, handfighting, and turning the guy while it punches, elbows and sweeps. It's not supposed to be a form of kickboxing
Those legs looked so delicious for calf and leg kicks. So sad the mma guy looks and fights like a drunk uncle - but you take this round, internet wingchhn lovers - until next time 🤣
i'm wingchun practitioner for more than 10 years now...
first of all... pretty much as any other martial art in the world... modern WC has adapted to a world full of Mixed techniques. In my school as student we go to an entire anti-takedown program and then an entire ground program... pretty much like most BJJ has incorporated some punching defenses moving from traditional grappling-only.
In WC we do not hope to be as good as a BJJ practitioner in the ground, just to have some game and be able to defend ourselfs and recover.
As for this fight itself, the WC guy has a little bit too low of a traditional WC arms guard for my taste, nevertheless he has a pretty good defense with Bong-Sau against the hooks the MMA guy throws the entire fight. except for that, i think the WC guy attacks are too linear, he does not try any moves except chain punch and front kick (which is more than ok for self defense but a little bit too basic and telegraphed for a long sparring session against a guy with serious striking habilities) Also foot work is very very basic.
As for MMA Guy... he is just bad. No kicks, no real ground game, strikes are very weak, thelegraphed and basic.
I'd say that these guys have around one year learning their respective martial art, they still have a lot to learn but they are moving in the correct path that is to keep training and testing their own skills
To many WC practitioners aren’t taught and don’t understand the system to be able to apply it in sparring or fights. Wing chun doesn’t just have straight chain punches. There’s no reason this guy should stick to arrow walking as he’s doing either. His hand shapes and strikes are very basic WC techniques as is his footwork. But on this occasion even the basics seemed to work.
MMA guy really needs to learn how to set up his shots. There's quite few moments where he does a powershot (i.e rear leg kick, cross) without setting it up properly, giving the wing chun guy the opportunity to block it or simply move backwards. Anyway, great work by the Wing Chun guy!
No hard angle attacks. Interesting if would hold out.
Ving Tsun is the spelling most commonly used in the European associations
It’s not the Vietnamese wing chun,ving tsun is the original wing chun (not the Leung tin and William cheng wana be wing chun)from Wong sheumg Leung lineage.
This is real wing chun.
Ving Tsun is not “the Vietnamese Branch” it’s Yip Man’s preferred spelling of Ving Tsun rather than Wing Chun, because VT is Ving Tsun, WC is Water Closet = Toilet in Hong Kong. Hence the VTAA - Ving Tsun Athletic Association which was founded by Yip Man 4th July 1967. The Jeang Sau hand position is consistent with this, as it’s more aggressive and a weapon rather than being a defensive ready position. The key being to occupy the centre line. The stance is a little unorthodox, but I suspect this is because he’s on soft ground. Does anyone know the lineage? There are details which appear to be Moy Yat lineage. The other thing to note is that any VT guy is severely limited when wearing gloves. Without the gloves his straight punches would be devastating. This guy isn’t just better than the MMA guy, but he is much better. The equipment and rules levelling the playing field.
We interviewed Till here: ruclips.net/video/AwyFIqNUNRI/видео.html
@@FightCommentary absolutely wonderful, thank you. Till is a super humble guy, which shows the true essence of VT. So he’s Wong Shun-Leung lineage. WSL was a contemporary older brother of Moy Yat before and through the founding of the VTAA, hence details looking familiar. He was also someone that spent time with his Sifu. He was known as King of Talking Hands - so what Till said about fighting was correct. And he was noted for passing much of his Sifu, Yip Man’s kung fu onto Bruce Lee. In your interview when you ask “what is Ving Tsun what is not Ving Tsun?” This is interesting. Moy Yat would say if you are practising centre line, you are practising Ving Tsun. I interpret this to mean if you are practising Siu Lim Tao. Once you have this ingrained any technique that conforms to the principles is VT, because VT becomes moving my body and centreline and every legitimate movement my body can express whilst adhering to those principles, or recapturing those principles. Is grappling VT? Yes, if I’m in that range. But it highlights the need to spend time to not only talk the principles, but to walk them, so to speak. So therefore we can further conclude that time spent with a sifu is critical for a strong lineage, a strong unbroken chain. Where what we are seeing described as VT is not VT is usually because at some point in the chain the link was weak or broken, and then this guy passed down a poor understanding. Overall that was an amazing interview and there are many areas I agree, some I would interpret differently. I don’t wish to be critical, but there were two areas I think my interpretation could be helpful: at the end when talking about falling back on Krav - this highlights the necessity to “play more Siu Lim Tau” - play more forms. Sparring can be helpful, but more forms with correct details are needed to make VT more natural and to not “break the principles” and lose structure. The other point comes to what Till was saying about punches with gloves, and how one can train to counter this. To a degree I agree. But one of the issues is when it comes to power generation. Until one has mastered horse, coordination, one would struggle to gain sufficient knock out power whilst wearing gloves. So the VT practitioner might light up the other guy, but not have powerful enough strikes to defeat him through the inch of armour afforded by the glove. Without the glove the metrics are very different. The younger practitioner still hasn’t cultivated the full potency of Ving Tsun but they have enough to protect themselves with their bare fist. So I think this is an important point to raise. That idea “I hit him in the face and nothing happened” is because the crumple zone in the glove took enough of the impact, that the face didn’t.
Please leave this comment on the chats page too so people can see it more easily!
@@FightCommentary I don’t know how to do that. If you could cut and paste, then send the link, I’d be sure to check it out.
That was interesting. But he was definitely more skilled the wing chun guy :)
Wing Chun peeps needs to take up Bagua to add some angularity to their game.
This was my whole philosophy right here. I started learning southern style Shaolin from my father and branched out to Wing Chun but learned that most of my sparring ended up too linear to defend and adapt. So I decided to try to learn as much as I could from as many styles as possible, starting with Baguazhang, Tai chi, and Aikido. I also went to a boxing gym to work out with western style defensive boxers. I feel that by not limiting your style to one form or another makes you more adaptable and far more defensive. (Also embarrassed a TKD teacher who clearly was not on my level)
Whatever comes from the Wing Chun fist or leg is wing chun. If it works, it works.