So what did the DDR "leaders" take away from the uprising? We have to treat our "comrades" better? No-- we need to create more organizations and methods to stomp them down quicker and more efficiently. D D R
Interesting times...Post-WW2 Germany was a case study in how to allow a defeated nation to rebuild. West Germany did well while East Germany did a bit...less well. The newly unified Germany of the 1990s is doing well so far and despite the ongoing conflict between two large countries, Europe has seen reasonable peace between the major powers of Britain, France, Germany, and even Italy.
I mean you kinda have to consider that West Germany obviously got way more aid and help and had way more industry and population. Still not saying the DDR was a success here but in my opinion it's not all that comparable. Germany was where two worlds collided. Communism and liberal democracy. Both sides wanted to build up their Germany at one point but thats not a fair comparison is it? (obviously yes the Soviets also wanted reparations but they also did help east Germany a lot)
@@Barneto Aid to west Germany was trivial as a % of its GDP. Its recovery can't be attributed to that. West Germany's success was overwhelming due to its vastly superior economic policies to those of the East. Communism really is that bad.
@@MarkAnderson-ng8vc what? the marshall plan was still a huuuuge help for west germany although they didn't receive as much as some other countries. obviously west germany didn't get a significant % of it's GDP but that doesn't really mean a lot. west germany had three times more workers and all the most important idustrial centers (especially rhineland). so no it's not a simple and fair comparison with the result being "ah true gommunism bad". you remind me of the people who say stuff like "look at cuba they aren't as rich as the US so socialism failed" very shallow and basic analysis. I don't want to go into the whole "exploiting the third world for our own gain" thingy which obviously plays a huge role in the west's wealth even to this day. so yes higher living standards but sweatshops in the third world and we saw what happened when west germany finally brutally annexed east germany. basically just taking everything the east german people once had and leaving them with nothing. my mom went to the ex-GDR (DDR) in 1991 and she couldn't believe it. people really were suffering like they weren't before and the same goes with russia and the fall of the USSR.
@@Barneto % of GDP absolutely matters, it's precisely how one measures the relative significance of aid. It's worth noting that in the late 40s and early 50s, the amount Germany was paying the US to cover the cost of occupation exceeded their Marshall plan contribution, so most years they weren't even net gaining from the US. There was also no correlation between the amount of aid one got and the rapidity of recovery, e.g., France and the UK got considerably more aid and their economies stagnated after the war.The Netherlands started recovering before the war even ended and before getting any aid. And yeah, Cuba failed almost exclusively because of socialism. Don't give me that embargo nonsense. The US is pretty much alone in embargoing Cuba; they can still trade with all of Europe and Canada, for eample, but guess what? There's still no demand for Cuban goods even where there is no embargo, because at the end of the day Cuba's economy is a mess of misallocated resources. And sorry, but that's just so ridiculous as to be laughable. Brutally annexed? The East Germans supported unification. Took everything? The FRD poured countless billions of dollars into the east. The median wages in East Germany have been growing rapidly since the end of the cold war. This Soviet nostalgia really needs to die.
@@MarkAnderson-ng8vc okay you at least don't seem to know a lot about cuba and german reunification. everything I said before is true. like 80% of east german businesses were in the hands of west germans or something crazy like that (capitalism moment) unemployment rose sharply and industrial output of the east fell by TWO THIRDS my friend. there is a reason why a lot of east germans want the DDR back (often majorities - depends on the survey). cuba is estimated to have lost 700 billion to 1.3 trillion dollars due to the embargo by the US alone. fortunately other countries aren't as braindead as the US but still. so the best case scenario is that cuba lost 7 cuban GDPs for one year over time. not being able to trade with the biggest imperialistic superpower in the world obviously has drawbacks. the funny thing is: cuba is fine despite the sanctions. their living standards are way better than in comparable countries that are capitalist (honduras el salvador costa rica etc). there are less people in cuba living in food insecurity than in the US. richest country in the world, everyone! a great country to live in for a few people. if you are poor in the US you are basically just a worthless worm waiting for death. I would unironically rather live in romania or cuba than the US.
Unfortunately, my phone decided to dump ALL audio capabilities early this morning, but,I'm following along by reading the transcripts. 👀👍
There is a street in Berlin (West) named Straße des 17 Juni or Street of the 17th June in honour of those who took part in the demonstrations.
Complete unknown to me.. Very interesting! 👍 Greetings from the Netherlands! 🇳🇱
A very interesting history lesson indeed.👍
So what did the DDR "leaders" take away from the uprising? We have to treat our "comrades" better? No-- we need to create more organizations and methods to stomp them down quicker and more efficiently.
D
D
R
OstMob'.......great group...
Interesting times...Post-WW2 Germany was a case study in how to allow a defeated nation to rebuild. West Germany did well while East Germany did a bit...less well. The newly unified Germany of the 1990s is doing well so far and despite the ongoing conflict between two large countries, Europe has seen reasonable peace between the major powers of Britain, France, Germany, and even Italy.
I mean you kinda have to consider that West Germany obviously got way more aid and help and had way more industry and population. Still not saying the DDR was a success here but in my opinion it's not all that comparable. Germany was where two worlds collided. Communism and liberal democracy. Both sides wanted to build up their Germany at one point but thats not a fair comparison is it? (obviously yes the Soviets also wanted reparations but they also did help east Germany a lot)
@@Barneto Aid to west Germany was trivial as a % of its GDP. Its recovery can't be attributed to that. West Germany's success was overwhelming due to its vastly superior economic policies to those of the East. Communism really is that bad.
@@MarkAnderson-ng8vc what? the marshall plan was still a huuuuge help for west germany although they didn't receive as much as some other countries. obviously west germany didn't get a significant % of it's GDP but that doesn't really mean a lot. west germany had three times more workers and all the most important idustrial centers (especially rhineland). so no it's not a simple and fair comparison with the result being "ah true gommunism bad". you remind me of the people who say stuff like "look at cuba they aren't as rich as the US so socialism failed" very shallow and basic analysis. I don't want to go into the whole "exploiting the third world for our own gain" thingy which obviously plays a huge role in the west's wealth even to this day. so yes higher living standards but sweatshops in the third world and we saw what happened when west germany finally brutally annexed east germany. basically just taking everything the east german people once had and leaving them with nothing. my mom went to the ex-GDR (DDR) in 1991 and she couldn't believe it. people really were suffering like they weren't before and the same goes with russia and the fall of the USSR.
@@Barneto % of GDP absolutely matters, it's precisely how one measures the relative significance of aid. It's worth noting that in the late 40s and early 50s, the amount Germany was paying the US to cover the cost of occupation exceeded their Marshall plan contribution, so most years they weren't even net gaining from the US. There was also no correlation between the amount of aid one got and the rapidity of recovery, e.g., France and the UK got considerably more aid and their economies stagnated after the war.The Netherlands started recovering before the war even ended and before getting any aid.
And yeah, Cuba failed almost exclusively because of socialism. Don't give me that embargo nonsense. The US is pretty much alone in embargoing Cuba; they can still trade with all of Europe and Canada, for eample, but guess what? There's still no demand for Cuban goods even where there is no embargo, because at the end of the day Cuba's economy is a mess of misallocated resources.
And sorry, but that's just so ridiculous as to be laughable. Brutally annexed? The East Germans supported unification. Took everything? The FRD poured countless billions of dollars into the east. The median wages in East Germany have been growing rapidly since the end of the cold war. This Soviet nostalgia really needs to die.
@@MarkAnderson-ng8vc okay you at least don't seem to know a lot about cuba and german reunification. everything I said before is true. like 80% of east german businesses were in the hands of west germans or something crazy like that (capitalism moment) unemployment rose sharply and industrial output of the east fell by TWO THIRDS my friend. there is a reason why a lot of east germans want the DDR back (often majorities - depends on the survey). cuba is estimated to have lost 700 billion to 1.3 trillion dollars due to the embargo by the US alone. fortunately other countries aren't as braindead as the US but still. so the best case scenario is that cuba lost 7 cuban GDPs for one year over time. not being able to trade with the biggest imperialistic superpower in the world obviously has drawbacks. the funny thing is: cuba is fine despite the sanctions. their living standards are way better than in comparable countries that are capitalist (honduras el salvador costa rica etc). there are less people in cuba living in food insecurity than in the US. richest country in the world, everyone! a great country to live in for a few people. if you are poor in the US you are basically just a worthless worm waiting for death. I would unironically rather live in romania or cuba than the US.
And Germany still is not free and sovereign.