@@tsm688 The intermediate pulley has "width". One edge is driven faster than the other edge, in fact most of its face is "slipping," constantly, on both the driving and the driven cone pulleys. We have similar phenomenon for a car tire being driven around in a circle, the inside edge is turning faster than the ground going by and the outside edge is turning slower than the ground going by, the tire makes sort of a squealing noise. When you're driving at cruising speed you never corner very much, you're not so much "driving" as "aiming." When you are doing a sharp turn at walking speed the rubber has to flex and slide. Luckily most miles are at cruising speed otherwise you'd wear the tire out prematurely! This CVT is constantly wearing away the pulleys, it has not-negligible friction loss and wear.
Neat. I wonder where the wear/bad friction vs tranmission/good friction angle is. I would rebuild the idler truck to mount the middle wheel at an angle to reduce contact surface on the cones. Or replace the middle wheel with one that is more pointed. The surface of the wheel is experiencing different RPMs and will induce friction, heat and wear on the surface. That will lower efficiency and increase maintenance costs.
@@inadad8878I think they mean that the surface of the center wheel is spanning several “gear ratios”, which generates a torque on the wheel itself from one edge of the contact surface to the other. This would mean there’s slippage on the surface of the wheel, which would cause significant wear and friction, and associated transmission losses and heat. They’re also saying this could be mitigated by changing the geometry of the center wheel or reducing the contact region, both of which would reduce the amount of “gear ratios” across the surface of the wheel, reducing friction and slippage significantly or entirely. I don’t see what’s incorrect about their statement.
reminds me of a scooter cvt, but the diameter change is due to the movement of the transmitting gear instead of a centrifugal force acting on rollers, brilliant!!!
Привет. Я в юные года, разобрав свой велосипед продумал систему торможения, а также плавное изменение передаточного числа. Через 10 лет в университете я увидел такую схему в деле. Это ведь просто. Но проблема в материалах...
Кольцо проще в производстве, т. Е. Технология неё. @@hoseignasio1538 но вопрос нагрузки остаётся, сколько выдержит и тд. Будет ли это надежный узел в авто?
@@ClumsyCars по тому что конусы имеют разные обороты относительно друг друга и ещё розовое кольцо между двух разно вращающихся конусов имеет отличное вращение от каждого конуса
@@ClumsyCars As you go from one end to the other, the spacing between teeth gets wider, which doesn't really work. Even if they still meshed, it wouldn't spin any faster or slower, since it's still the same number of teeth per rotation. If the input turns by 20 teeth, the output turns by 20 teeth. Doesn't matter how big those teeth are, you either have the same number of teeth around the cone at every thickness (which means no gear ratio is changing) or you have points where new teeth start as it gets wider (which is no better than having multiple gears on the same shaft).
промежуточное колесо изнашивается с разной степенью, т.к. с обеих сторон диаметр контакта разный по ширине колеса, а значит идет истирание колеса с одной стороны, и тоже самое с другой стороны. Это уничтожить псначала промежуточное а затем и остальные колеса.
это решается. можно увеличить обороты и уменьшить промежуточный ролик для снижения износа. или наоборот - обороты передачи снизить как получится и поставить увеличенный изнашиваемый промежуточный. так на конвейерах и других сложных устройствах с плавной регулировкой оборотов/старта делают. а в таком виде конечно плохо
I've always liked that friction drive. ==== Nowadays I was wondering if you could not get herringbone mesh all the way around. ===== Then have one cone straight to the drive shaft in a horseshoe yolk over that with a straight shot stick shift. ==== The engine with point up a little bit like a unicorn 🦄. === A three-wheeler in the the drive shaft and be able to lock the shift anywhere along the cone my releasing the top button 🔘. ==== I have to think but it'd be a high-riding small car 🚗. 🌻 👋😎💨 Bryan
To get comparable grip (for transferring power without slipping) to a cone pulley / v-belt transmission on something like a drill press, I don't have any idea how that could be done. The contact area of a belt wrapped around a pulley is so much greater than that of a rubber wheel between cones, I'm at a loss how to transfer enough power to run a machine tool at all. Is there a rubber compound stout and durable enough to transfer a few horsepower with a useful lifespan for this kind of application?
Hello, first of all, thank you for your video. Can we see how many amps are drawn from the motor at different speeds? I wanted to know how much this process strains and loads the motor.
очень плохое решение - проскальзывание большое получается, слишком маленький ресурс. тогда надо главную передачу добавлять, для увеличения числа оборотов до замены
В этой системе необходимо избавиться от трения скольжения, а так это давно известный принцип.В реальности такая система может работать только на понижение передачи.
Или вот, ещё более менее рабочий вариант: ruclips.net/video/nayVR2PAWHo/видео.html Тут тоже есть свои нюансы и минусы, но в этом случае можно передать значительно больше крутящего момента, чем в устройстве показанном в вашем ролике.
its the same thing as a belt CVT you just making a single contact point in this case which is going to fail lets just be blunt. belt cvt's only survive because of the amount of surface contact and friction with it. moment you'd put a load on that output it'd slip and fail.
Toyota adds an an actual first gear to the CVT vehicles, it is used to start the vehicle moving and eliminates most of the undo wear of transmission. Brilliant idea.
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良くこんな事を考えますよね。天才か。
???
考案者だれなんだろう
天才だよな
これをかつて日産だったかな？が車用に研究していたが、
どうしても摩耗と振動問題がクリア出来ずにお蔵入りになった。
だからピンクの回転体の代わりにアイシンやスバル では金属コマやチェーンを使って伝達する事で量産化してる。
@@ToRoRoDeSuGaNaNiKa幸せな人生をお祈りします……ありがとう
🔴ムスリムは創造主である唯一の真の神へ従う者だ
🔵我々は唯一の御方、創造主、真実の神（アッラー）のみを崇拝しなければならない。
🔴者を援助、食物を与え、支えるように勧めている。
🔵イスラームは、人種や肌の色や国籍に関わらず全ての人間は平等であると教えている。
🔴イスラームとは唯一の真の神であり創造主へと従うという意味だ。
🔵ムハンマドは40歳になった時に、天使ガブリエルを通じて啓示を受けた。
🔴預言者ムハンマドは述べた。「もし、ある男がイエスを信じ、私（ムハンマド）を信じるなら、彼は二倍の報酬を得るだろう。」
🔵イスラームは私達の両親と高齢者を敬い、気に掛けるように命じている。
🔴彼は人種、肌の色または国籍に関わらず全ての人間は平等であると言う。
🔵し主の許しを乞うこと。己を愛するように人を愛すこと。
🔴全体を異教と偶像崇拝から、唯一の神（アッラー）へのタウヒードと従順へと変えた
🔵イスラームは弱者、貧者、困窮者や障がい者を援助、食物を与え、支えるように訴えている。
形は違いますけど似た原理の変速機はバイクなどによく入ってますよ。
なんて分かりやすい！👏
Clever design!
I only knew about the belt driven CVT
Estava pensando em um jeito e acoplar engrenagens ali, pelo jeito é só as correias mesmo! kkkkkk
昔の工作雑誌に出ていたものはシャフトに遠心式ガバナーが付いていて負荷が高くなると円錐が互い違いに動いて自動的にトルクが増すように考えられていました。
Smart!
こういう視覚で仕組みが理解できる展示物がいっぱいある科学館、you tube。
学びになります。
Excellent demo for ratio - but impractical from a loss perspective.
looks better than a pulley driven one to me. Just got to hope the tolerances don't go off, though.
@@tsm688 The intermediate pulley has "width". One edge is driven faster than the other edge, in fact most of its face is "slipping," constantly, on both the driving and the driven cone pulleys. We have similar phenomenon for a car tire being driven around in a circle, the inside edge is turning faster than the ground going by and the outside edge is turning slower than the ground going by, the tire makes sort of a squealing noise. When you're driving at cruising speed you never corner very much, you're not so much "driving" as "aiming." When you are doing a sharp turn at walking speed the rubber has to flex and slide. Luckily most miles are at cruising speed otherwise you'd wear the tire out prematurely!
This CVT is constantly wearing away the pulleys, it has not-negligible friction loss and wear.
@@Grunchy005how does the version commonly in use get around this issue? Wouldn’t belts also have a non zero width?
@@boomchacleKSPthey use two very steep cones on both sides that sandwich the belt.
Change the gradiant and youd reduce the friction/ slip @Grunchy005
なにこれわかりやすい
スムースに回転しているように見えるけど、ピンクのローラーの奥と手前で回転速度の差があり、そこで大きな摩擦が発生し、スリップしている点に注意。 ピンクのローラーが薄ければ摩擦は低減されるけど、薄いと大きなトルクが伝達できない。 車のCVTもこの問題との戦い。
How about a spherical roller?
How about merging multiple thin wheels?
コーンを大きくして接線速度を上げれば、薄いピンクローターによる小さなトルク伝達でも、期待される動力伝達が可能になるでしょう。
Wow. RUclips translated your comment into English nearly flawlessly.
Thanks this was the comment I was looking for.
めちゃめちゃわかりやすい
The design is very elegant! I like it!
こうなってたんだ！すごくわかりやすい！
見れば「そういう事か！」ってすぐわかるけど、全く思いつかなかった。
よくこんな仕組み考えたな！
スクーターやCVT車の仕組みが良く分かりました！
うわぁ！！すげぇ！！！
I hate CVTs, but this is a great explanation! Thank you!
Thank you very much!!! Now that I need to explain to someone how the CVT works. I'm going to show your video.
This is not how a CvT in a car works, those are belt driven
There is a lot of friction on the pink wheel, because there are shear forces.
still look better than a belt
Neat. I wonder where the wear/bad friction vs tranmission/good friction angle is. I would rebuild the idler truck to mount the middle wheel at an angle to reduce contact surface on the cones. Or replace the middle wheel with one that is more pointed. The surface of the wheel is experiencing different RPMs and will induce friction, heat and wear on the surface. That will lower efficiency and increase maintenance costs.
I think it is funny your 100% wrong comment go so many thumbs up.
@@inadad8878I think they mean that the surface of the center wheel is spanning several “gear ratios”, which generates a torque on the wheel itself from one edge of the contact surface to the other. This would mean there’s slippage on the surface of the wheel, which would cause significant wear and friction, and associated transmission losses and heat.
They’re also saying this could be mitigated by changing the geometry of the center wheel or reducing the contact region, both of which would reduce the amount of “gear ratios” across the surface of the wheel, reducing friction and slippage significantly or entirely.
I don’t see what’s incorrect about their statement.
@@inadad8878 Indeed, is funny you're 100% wrong comment. 🤣
Indeed; I thought a single O-ring might make a nice elegant roller with a much smaller contact patch width..
simple fix, just crown the middle gear so it self-locates the most efficient contact patch 🤔🤷♂️
This one's awesome. Love your videos.
I know these are usually in automatic cars but I'm imagining a manual car with a small hand crank wheel in the center console instead of a gear shift.
素晴らしい👍
コレの究極系が、軽自動車によく使われているのである。このモデルは大変解りやすい👍
いやむしろ究極という意味ではこっちの方が上(油圧による無駄エネルギーが不要なので)。
ただピンクローラーの張り付きなどが解決できず、油で潤滑するとそもそも滑って高トルクの伝達が出来ないのでベルトやチェーンで妥協してるってだけ。
That is some clever gearing ratios.
I really like this, lovely example of principle. Hope you add it to an RC car at some point. Great work 👍🍺🇬🇧
next: use differential, 135 rpm - 135 rpm = 0 rpm, so a car doesnt need clutch
Infinitely variable transmission!
@NotSure416 yes
reminds me of a scooter cvt, but the diameter change is due to the movement of the transmitting gear instead of a centrifugal force acting on rollers, brilliant!!!
EDIT: Nicely done.
Привет. Я в юные года, разобрав свой велосипед продумал систему торможения, а также плавное изменение передаточного числа. Через 10 лет в университете я увидел такую схему в деле. Это ведь просто. Но проблема в материалах...
Brilliant design! Subscribed!
Basically the Versa Transmission
Как по мне похоже на вариатор как в honda fit, только тут вместо ремня привода, розовое кольцо
Кольцо проще в производстве, т. Е. Технология неё. @@hoseignasio1538 но вопрос нагрузки остаётся, сколько выдержит и тд. Будет ли это надежный узел в авто?
No, Versa uses a steel belt
こうやって車の中で勝手に変速してくれているんですね。
This design looks so simple yet so smart. It's hard to believe the belt one is more popular. I wonder why is it that way.
в таком решении - промежуточный ролик очень быстро изнашивается из-за трения. зачем вам трансмиссия которую надо ремонтировать раз в месяц?
これスゴいわかりやすいのですけど、変換ロスとか結構大きそうだなぁって思いました。現実に商品化するには見えない工夫がたくさんあるんでしょうね。
I like this more than the thought of a belt that might break at any moment 😬
Как мне кажется, розовое кольцо сотрётся и будет проскальзывать...
@@hoseignasio1538 but why couldn't the cones and wheel be made into gears?
@@ClumsyCars по тому что конусы имеют разные обороты относительно друг друга и ещё розовое кольцо между двух разно вращающихся конусов имеет отличное вращение от каждого конуса
@@ClumsyCarsа шестерня не даст пропустить оборот или списать его на трение, так как у шестерен зубцы
@@ClumsyCars As you go from one end to the other, the spacing between teeth gets wider, which doesn't really work. Even if they still meshed, it wouldn't spin any faster or slower, since it's still the same number of teeth per rotation. If the input turns by 20 teeth, the output turns by 20 teeth.
Doesn't matter how big those teeth are, you either have the same number of teeth around the cone at every thickness (which means no gear ratio is changing) or you have points where new teeth start as it gets wider (which is no better than having multiple gears on the same shaft).
промежуточное колесо изнашивается с разной степенью, т.к. с обеих сторон диаметр контакта разный по ширине колеса, а значит идет истирание колеса с одной стороны, и тоже самое с другой стороны. Это уничтожить псначала промежуточное а затем и остальные колеса.
это решается. можно увеличить обороты и уменьшить промежуточный ролик для снижения износа. или наоборот - обороты передачи снизить как получится и поставить увеличенный изнашиваемый промежуточный. так на конвейерах и других сложных устройствах с плавной регулировкой оборотов/старта делают. а в таком виде конечно плохо
Now *that* is interesting. That's really cool!
天才
Amazing ! A car manufacturer use an unusual type of chain for this principle.
VベルトだけじゃないCVTを勉強しました。
すごい
I've always liked that friction drive.
====
Nowadays I was wondering if you could not get herringbone mesh all the way around.
=====
Then have one cone straight to the drive shaft in a horseshoe yolk over that with a straight shot stick shift.
====
The engine with point up a little bit like a unicorn 🦄.
===
A three-wheeler in the the drive shaft and be able to lock the shift anywhere along the cone my releasing the top button 🔘.
====
I have to think but it'd be a high-riding small car 🚗.
🌻
👋😎💨 Bryan
To get comparable grip (for transferring power without slipping) to a cone pulley / v-belt transmission on something like a drill press, I don't have any idea how that could be done. The contact area of a belt wrapped around a pulley is so much greater than that of a rubber wheel between cones, I'm at a loss how to transfer enough power to run a machine tool at all.
Is there a rubber compound stout and durable enough to transfer a few horsepower with a useful lifespan for this kind of application?
Hello, first of all, thank you for your video. Can we see how many amps are drawn from the motor at different speeds?
I wanted to know how much this process strains and loads the motor.
Ingenioso y simple!! 👍🏼
i am curious to see the effect sudden changes in torque availability will do to the center wheel
実物のCVTは、ベルトでやってることを、ピンクのギアでつなぐことで、
入力側（モーター）の傘歯車、出力側の傘歯車の接続位置で加速、減速をシンプルに再現してる
なるほどなー！
That's cool, although I'd like to know what would be a good use for this as most electric systems that need a variable speed just use a VFD.
Nice!
Any transmission has such property like max torque against friction loss. Please provide comparison graph with other known gearboxes.
Clever!
I have no idea what that is but it's pretty sweet.
四角的に示されるとわかりやすくていいね。
てか誰が考えたんやこんな仕組み……
CVTか！！
nice ..need one for my bike
excellent. I understand now.
What about slippage under load?
古くからあるスクーターの変速機構と同じ構造ですね。
我觉得这个有可能不太好实用化，中间那个轮子有厚度，然而在这个厚度轴线上锥形轮的线速度并不相同，那么中间轮会磨损发热，不知我有没有想错。。。
Чисто со стороны инженерной мысли - очень интересная задумка.
incredible. thanks for share idea
Bonjour.
Le principe de ce dispositif est vraiment très ancien.
Salutations.
we use this system to weld drums for airport electrical network
ピンクのローラーを任意で移動しているからトロイダルCVTにも似ているような
そうそう。これなら変速しない時に油圧が要らない。
おもしろい
this is close to an answer but there's better solution out there which don't require anything that depends on high friction.
If you could get that to somehow work with gear teeth, it would be quiet useful. The slip makes it unusable for most applications
Unfortunately, it's impossible to do this with gear teeth. The intermediate gear would have to have a variable tooth sizing and spacing.
CVTs use belts for most applications.
んー、美しい😊
Polyrhythm Possibilities 😂
очень плохое решение - проскальзывание большое получается, слишком маленький ресурс. тогда надо главную передачу добавлять, для увеличения числа оборотов до замены
フリクションドライブ！
Brilliant!
The transfer wheel is far too wide. I guess it revolves at the mean velocity, the outer most parts must skid and be subject to high wear.
And what is the torque? This looks like it will slip, a lot.
Nice one
0:40 ピンクのかまぼこにしか見えん
どのシーンでもぴんくのかまぼこに見えるのに、わざわざ40秒のその瞬間を切り取るのプロフェッショナルな感じがする
wait a sec, isn't it much better than a belt????!
なるほどなあ
thats pretty cool, now why can't we just do this with gears?
parece un modulo de alguna transformer que perdió un pedazo durante una batalla épica
В этой системе необходимо избавиться от трения скольжения, а так это давно известный принцип.В реальности такая система может работать только на понижение передачи.
Can this be considered overunity? Lol.
These gears belong to variator class
Sadly impractical for cars as wear and slip is too high
К сожалению у центрального кольца разное трение с двух сторон и это приведет к износу розового кольца
Good point...or will it ?
@@MrSpot41 мой мозг запустив симуляцию, выдал такой результат. Современные "изобретения" упираются в свойства материалов...
俺もそこが気になった
オイルやタイヤみたいに劣化していないか頻繁に確認したり
劣化してたらすぐに交換できる前提なのかな
This is a model to briefly explain the mechanism of CVT
@@くまじょ-q9bthrough a rebuild yes, hopefully whatever it goes in can have it replaced easily
It's what they do with a moped tranmission
Subaru's transmission.
interesting
O complicado nesse sistema é a aderência
すり減って噛み合わなくなったり空転しないか心配だけど、製品はどうしてるんだろう？
それらの問題が(乗用車向けには)解決できなかったので、
ローラーの代わりにベルトやチェーンで繋いでます。
@@simanekop oh... 🙏
Plenty-O applications 😉
Или вот, ещё более менее рабочий вариант: ruclips.net/video/nayVR2PAWHo/видео.html
Тут тоже есть свои нюансы и минусы, но в этом случае можно передать значительно больше крутящего момента, чем в устройстве показанном в вашем ролике.
its the same thing as a belt CVT you just making a single contact point in this case which is going to fail lets just be blunt. belt cvt's only survive because of the amount of surface contact and friction with it. moment you'd put a load on that output it'd slip and fail.
メトロノームに使えそう
👍🤯
I don't see the $7200. repair bill.
技術家庭科の教材に持ってこい(^^)/
如何防止低扭矩情况下，活塞发动机熄火？
Toyota adds an an actual first gear to the CVT vehicles, it is used to start the vehicle moving and eliminates most of the undo wear of transmission. Brilliant idea.
先につけてるやつカド消しかと思った
Хотел с зубцами такой вариатор зделать.Но шаг менятся и можно только ступенчатый зделать.Но это не имеет смысла т к есть обычная мкпп.