Thank you for the first Super Thanks on the channel! With this, you can support my projects by joining the channel and get access to editable project files. These projects take a lot of time and effort, so I truly appreciate any support, no matter how small. I hope your support will help me create content faster and with better quality and most importantly improve my English🤪😂
A seemingly minor, but important distinction to all the budding engineers out there: the device shown here is a type of turbine, NOT an engine. The distinction being that an engine converts a different type of energy (thermal, chemical, potential, etc.) into mechanical energy. A turbine extracts the (already mechanical) energy in a fluid stream and turns it into work.
Im not an engineer but my first thought was: How is this more efficient than blades in a turbine? Considering this design never took off (I think), I assume it’s not.
@@bl4cksp1d3rI mean... There is something called a Disk turbine. A type of blade-less turbine made out of metal disks that is extremely efficient and can give you way better results than a blade turbine... The only reason it doesn't get used is because it has a tendency to tear itself apart due to how powerful it is
There are two more seals that would also improve performance. The disk to wedge seal and the wedge to sphere seal. Without these seals, the engine is simply relying on air velocity to wobble the disk rather than a volume change caused by pressure.
@@derpinbird1180 there already exists 2 other rubber seals. Why should the two I suggest be made from plastic? Are you suggesting not sealing these regions?
I'm pretty sure if he just cuts the engine out and just lets the air flow out of the tube it's 100% efficiency with regards to moving air. (Which I believe is why he's using the propeller, correct?)
@@GewelReal you dont understand. The airflow he is using as power input will ultimately be the exact same airflow out as the propeller pushes. the system is useless.
@@orion1816 no, YOU don't understand. air out of hose may produce a lot of thrust, but it's not optimised for lifting something heavy. It will work way worse than a propeller unless your goal would be speed (it may not take off the ground as well as a propeller if at all)
While watching the video i abolutely thought the same, right up @TomStantonEngineering 's alley, hope he sees this and someday makes something cool out of it.
@@cancelhandles⚠️ God has said in the Quran: 🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 ) 🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 ) 🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 ) 🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 ) 🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 ) ⚠️ Quran
That makes a lot of sense. Trying to use this design to actually power something is going to run into the fact that the mechanical leverage the air has on the disc is very low...so useful power output is going to be minimal.
Make sense as a sensor. Since the volume can be relatively easily determined. As an engine, however, I am not so sure... I am thinking just surface drag is probably enough to make the rod spin efficiently without the z shaft...
Dude, your idea with this engine is great. But follow the safety rules, don't stand in the plane of the propeller's rotation - it's dangerous! The printed part can break, and the blades can fly into your body.
That's a carbon prop made for pushing a couple hundred watts of power into air. This motor can't even turn it hard enough to get the air flowing correctly.
So, 3 ways to make this more efficient. First we have to understand the high torque low speed nature of this engine. It runs at exceptionally low pressure and doesn't go very fast. The first way to increase the efficiency would be to further stabilize the rod, as this will reduce friction. It was a tad wobbly. The second way to increase efficiency would be to add a gear ratio to the propeller making the propeller spin between 1-2.5 times per rotation of the engine. This would add friction but help the engine convert torque to propeller speed. The third way to increase efficiency would be to reduce the total number of gaskets used and make a more solid chassis around the disk, and reduce the size of the sphere in the middle. Using an interlocking chassis you can make a more definite tolerance, and use less gaskets. Reducing the size of the sphere would increase the total surface area of the piston without sacrificing too much volume or adding total size. I'm sure there is a 'too small' though as you could lose compression. You could also experiment with changing the edge of the disk only around the area of the intake or outtake, as well as getting rid of the gap around the fin that interlocks with the disk and chassis to reduce bleed from one chamber to the next. The disk tilts so maybe use a parabolic shape. This point goes in tandem with @acreery1 comment.
How different is your commentary from "COOL, Dude" standard responses I smell 150 minimum IQ Yes we can recognize each other my fellow even at a distance Though the feeling of loneliness is there, you are not, it's just because we are so few and separated
What if the exhaust goes to a second disk that is 90° out of phase? Then you get the exhaust's remaining energy powering a "mini-powe-stroke" in between your current power strokes. Also imagine printing it in metal and running it off steam! 😁😁
That's interesting. I'm wondering how this system might operate in an even denser medium, like water. If it was eficient it may find application in smaller scale hydropower systems. Just a thought, since I'm no expert in that field.
@@waynecooper6124 you'd probably need at least a little air to keep it from locking up mid stroke, or modify the design slightly so that flow from intake to exhaust is never completely cut off
@@waynecooper6124 hmmm... The main differences would be that liquids are incompressible and have higher viscosity. I suspect the lack of compressibility might be an issue cos if there are points in the cycle where both the inlet and outlet are closed water wouldn't be doing work on the "piston" (in this case "wobbly disk"?). The higher viscosity MIGHT be a benefit as adhesion has some effect on a rotary engine at the surface. How much of an effect this actually has I don't know. I thing a best of both worlds would be a supercritical fluid that has both the compressibility and the viscosity.
I love the simple principle. So neat. But you were brave to hold the propeller at 4 bars - I just anticipated the wobbly printed plastic shaft of the propeller to snap on you! Gladly - it did not. Nice job.
My question is, will it work on suction alone? Because then you could create a closed loop system, sending the exhaust back to the compressor. Doubling the efficiency. Even if it can’t run on suction, the lower pressure on the exhaust side would be the same as running the intake side at a higher pressure for free. More like 1.5x efficiency. Otherwise when it comes to simplicity of manufacturing, I still think the classic pneumatic tool motors are more practical.
Looks like a significantly less efficient version of a turbine. It's a great demonstration of the real engine, but probably not the best design for an air engine.
I came here to say this as well. To me, it looks like the air is just pushing it around rather than the proposed compression operation theory. Still neat though, especially the clear version. Not enough people make clear things
A better sealed version, especially one that actually HAS a seal to isolate the two sides of the disk, would work with any air flow rate and pressure, unlike a turbine. In essence this is a piston engine. Just a poorly sealed one, for now.
This isn't a turbine. Turbines rely on aerodynamic lift over the turbine blades and are tuned to work best at certain speeds. This relies on a trapped volume of air (or it will once it's sealed properly). I think it's a great idea.
@@jamescarruthers1967 You're right. It's less of a traditional turbine and more of a mix between a tesla turbine (also a turbine), a water wheel and a radial compressor run on reverse. I would love to see efficiency/power comparisons with other designs.
Heyyy... That's awesome! There's a super-common use case for that structure: the nutating disc flowmeter; we used them in the Navy. Really cool to see it in a novel application.
I have been trying to find someone to model this engine idea. Imagine a gear wrapped in a shroud. Each tooth drives a pocket of air. Now reduce that gear to just two long teeth (two for balance). Add a second gear to work against this first gear like a worm gear. The two gears will not drive each other. We will need to link them to keep them spinning in synch. While spinning, one tooth drives the air against the side of the tooth of the other gear. Then they trade places as the teeth pass one another. One last thing is to flip one of the gears inside out and make it slightly bigger to avoid the teeth clashing at the opposite end. This should reduce the air leakage due to the curvature of the gears. Use a separate shaft to keep the two spinning in a one-to-one ratio and you should have a neat engine with 4 distinct strokes. Two expansion and two compression. Also, all torque is applied tangentially to the axis giving excellent performance.
Intersting idea- its like a boxer engine but without the seperate crank shaft between the cylinders....but Two points to add- 1: Wear in the cylinder over long term operation- it would be interesting to see how much loss due to friction in the cylinder you generate. 2: Vibration - it would seem that having the axis of the "piston" disk at an angle would generate a fairly significant sideways/rotational vibration; so again something to measure on an efficiency loss
Put a ring around the disc like piston rings from any internal combustion engine. That may improve the sealing, Good video I didn't know this tipe of of engine.
Great idea! Somehow you need to overcome the need for the initial push that starts the motion. For a real life application, the need for the initial kick to start it would be a show-stopper.
this particular turbine is most likely for use in a hobby sized compressed air plane. a manual rotation is actually a design feature (to let you hold it before launch, and choose when to initiate launch)
@7:12 the second valve improved the exhaust pressure and made it spin slightly faster than without the valve. Keeping the pressure high inside the engine.
@@VisualPrecisionLtd I believe there's a one-year grace period within which you can file a patent, but that expires after that first year. There may be exceptions to that, but that's what I understand to be the case in the U.S.
Add an impression into each side of the disc in the shape of your ignition chamber. As the disc goes up and down, this could add to compression and make it more airtight as well. It would take computerized timing to get right, but it’s probably a worthwhile step to try.
1. Reminds me of the ROFLcopter sound made by microsoft sam, soi soi soi soi soi soi... 2. if you send designs for someone else to print, make sure that either you have a patent or that the design is properly in public domain first, otherwise you may lose the rights to the design. 3. Here are the four horsemen of engines that work well in theory, but not in the real world: A. Straight, edged, or otherwise unfavorably shaped sealing between the main power harnessing element and the rest of the combustion chamber (Wankel, vane, rotaries in general, rectangular piston, the indexing key sealing on this one, etc) B. Non-positive sealing (Coates, rotary valving in general, the spherical axle sealing on this one, etc) C. Undampened full engine power going through a lashing mechanism, generally gears (Achates, Avadi, etc.) D. Exotically machined parts to avoid the problem above (INNengine, etc.)
This is a quality response. You've clearly understood the practical engineering issues at a granular level where most people don't see the subtleties. When I saw the Honda oval piston I thought, "That won't work well". They would have been better with a squashed circle profile instead of oval so that at least there was a constant curve.
nice job man. thanks for video. i think better to use air sealings instead of rubber gaskets. also you can make another sealing in edge of ufo shape. make its edge like a grave for air also make some holes in ufo up and down sides to guid air from out of ufo to its inside and then through air channels to air grave in ufo edge. this way a small portion of air will guide to edge of ufo and will restrict air flow from edge of ufo up or down. this way you can increase distance between ufo edge and cylinder. same you can do for rubber gasket with replacing by air sealing.
This looks awesome and promising! I have a question, born out of uninformed curiosity: how cost-effective can this be? How easy, cheap or sustainable is the access to compressed air to power a machine with this engine?
In order to make this into a servicable craft, one would only need to change the gearing on the shaft, then route the air from your pump to the other propeller-mounted turbines(apparently). Hook up an air an compressor to the harness with the throttle hooked up to air controll, and set up a gyroscope, and you're set
This closely resembles a peristaltic motion of the air volume as it turns in one direction. Another example worth trying is the rolling piston engine. I think you will find it easier to make it more airtight.
maybe if you put other air inlet in 45º or 90º it may help to do more pressure when the first inlet is bypassing between air flow up and down and when te second is changing, the fisrt will be in the best position. i think that the max speed and the torque will be incerase (sorry for my english, i'm learning)
brilliant!, simple, you have a blow through freewheeling of air that is wasteful, but still useful or maybe even needed. if you get the right length of hose, you can set up a resonance in the hose and the tank pressure that is constant. as the air pressure drops, velocity goes up, so when the valve comes back and cuts through a low pressure, but a high air flow, the velocity gets converted to pressure inside volume being, pushing down to turn. If you make two interleaved halves, 180 degrees out, a left and a right with a center injection port. then no blow by is created and all pressure power is used. Capturing some of with resonance is not needed. But you need 2, but that's ok cause it will 2x the power out! or
Nice work. With the exhaust Port being right beside the intake would there not be a significant amount of air bleeding across and going straight out the the exhaust? could this be remedied by moving the exhaust the opposite corner of the intake to reduce the valve overlap. Also is the locating Notch necessary? Would there be any harm with the disc rotating freely in it's housing? Keep up the good work
I don't think you need to make the seal airtight on the top and bottom. It acts like a continuous wing. What's important is the different pressure zones between the top and bottom of the wing. Intuitively, if you had the fluid enter at 0 degrees, and exit at 270 degrees, you should get an adequate pressure differential between the top and bottom halves to keep the turbine engine turning, even without sealing. You may also need to increase the surface area of the wing (e.g. the radius of the ring). These changes might let you use it for higher pressure situations, e.g. with water, since you would have much higher tolerances due to fewer physical parts in contact.
One - Congrats on getting me to sit and watch all the way through an advertising aside. You actually integrated the segue into your running commentary quite well, and had built good "momentum" by the time you got to the parts that were pure advertising. JLCPCB spent their money well here. Two - I would be interested in seeing you take this design in a second direction. I am very curious as to how this nutating turbine(?) functions as a hydraulic engine. I would like to see some discussion about its use both as a hydraulic actuator and as a possible water-driven motor for some kind of small hydropower system.
Here's an idea 👉 Get a coupler for the inlet port, an extra piece of hose and feed the outlet back into the inlet. I think it's an awesome design, and the efficiency could also be improved by putting some texture on the surface of the ball, like small scales.. 🖖
To supply air in this engine you need an air compressor, which is already working by an electricity. That's 1 more step converting the energy from electric to kinetic energy of air molecules. Instead of this you can directly use electricity to rotate the blades, using electric motor. But the consept is interesting!
Would adding a tapered ridge to the sphere on the friction zone and a corresponding valley on the cover help with air loss? Possibly eliminating the gaskets necessity altogether? Amazing job with the concept by the way! New subscriber.
A wobbling gyroscope would be my next suggestion. A spinning disk will wobble like that without air, so the air would maintain the wobble frequency while using some of the acceleration in the wobble. I didn't use the word momentum, because angular momentum has nothing to do with "why" a gyro does what it does. Modern science cannot see that. Look at my version based in acceleration. It's CAUSAL, and it don't need a right-hand rule first.
Cunnect the air out to your compressor intake or a "vakuumer"/strong dust sucker. In a fictive real live costrucktion a air compressor could be part of the circle by deliver positve and negative pressure at the same time. What about way larger wings and stronger construcktion and let the force be delivered by hydraulik over all? may be slowe the nair but way more force possible, so larger bladewings could be used. You made me curious at all^^
Cool concept, great execution and only one question - how is this better than a turbine with blades? It does not seem like a viable engine due to low torque.
If the parts were precisely fitted and balanced to create a very tiny tolerance between the sphere, the disk, and the case, it would create a better seal with substantially less friction. If there was a thin layer of oil inside the case to increase the air seal and decrease the friction by lubricating the surfaces, it would be expected that the turbine would become much more efficient and powerful.
I think it's a mistake to have that keyway that keeps the disc in one position. Remove the keyway, make the disk continuous all round and let it rotate if it wants to. I think you'll find the overall effect is better. It's also creating friction between the disk and the key. You may also find making the surface of the disk where the air impacts it slightly concave as if a mild torus has been subtacted from the shape might improve it also. I think you'll find it will work better with more closely-engineered surfaces than using rubber seals and then letting it run at a faster speed.
This device would make a good pre-rotation drive for an auto gyro lift rotor! This would be instead of the current friction drive using pulleys and a flexible drive shaft and head sprocket. There would be no need to engage a clutch since the air driven ‘wobbler disc’ and z shaft assembly could be permanently engaged with only compressed air needed via an airline. A tank of compressed air could be carried on the airframe to operate it and re pressurised between flights. Alternatively, the aircraft engine could be linked to a small air compressor for autonomous re pressurisation whilst on the ground.
Always trade offs. No free lunch. Complex can add efficientcy, simple can have a low maintenence system but less efficient. Choose whats most valuable for the application.
i wonder if using a different seal would work better than rubber. I wonder if Nylon would work. Or at least something with low friction that can hold air. I could be wrong but never know till you try right? Nice work hope to see more. You have a new subscriber.
A wobbling disk engine, like Euler's disk, is not particularly efficient in terms of energy conservation or useful work output. Its main appeal is the visual effect and the physics principles it illustrates, rather than efficiency. When you spin or wobble the disk, it quickly starts to lose energy through various forms of dissipation: 1. Friction - Even with minimal surface friction, there’s still contact with the table or base, which slows it down over time. 2. Air Resistance - The disk moves through the air, which creates drag and reduces speed. 3. Sound and Vibration - The wobbling generates sound and sometimes vibration, which also drains energy from the system. These losses make it inefficient at conserving energy. Unlike engines that are designed to produce useful work by efficiently converting energy from one form to another (like a car engine converting fuel to motion
I suppose it'd be easy enough to add more discs out of phase with the first which may help with that start up (three times more likely for one of the discs to be in a good position to just start moving, but also heavier and may need more pressure to start). I like it!
So just saying steam engines used oil so your air engine may benefit from oil injected with the air, only problem is you need to collect it after the air passes through.
Probably could run some powder through it and it would self-coat all surfaces by embedding to the plastics. Maybe a primer first to soften the top micron of plastic, low percent oil/acetone blend. Of course not on the transparent one or it would not be so transparent anymore.
Using source compressed air to do work. Using that work so spin an air compressor. Would it be more efficient to use a nozzle and push the source compressed air out of the back of the plane directly?
5 years from now someone will make this a car/truck motor just like the guys who built the car that runs and drives off water. Great work🫡! Love how you explained everything with detail throughout the process.
"chamfer"@4:24 no! Instead subtract a sphere with something like 0.01mm to 0.05mm bigger radius then the sphere below to minimize air loss then use step format. However you are blowing to create another blow through mechanical, with a 90 degree bent down of the air compressor tube you get easily transmit thrust more efficiently
Would it be helpful to make it a complete system loop. Air inlet from the compressor and outlet being sucked out by the compressor for a loop? I'm not an engineer but in my head it should help increase speeds.
Thanks!
Thank you for the first Super Thanks on the channel!
With this, you can support my projects by joining the channel and get access to editable project files. These projects take a lot of time and effort, so I truly appreciate any support, no matter how small. I hope your support will help me create content faster and with better quality and most importantly improve my English🤪😂
@@retsetman9698 i read that as "edible project files" and got kind of excited for a sec
A seemingly minor, but important distinction to all the budding engineers out there: the device shown here is a type of turbine, NOT an engine. The distinction being that an engine converts a different type of energy (thermal, chemical, potential, etc.) into mechanical energy. A turbine extracts the (already mechanical) energy in a fluid stream and turns it into work.
Im not an engineer but my first thought was: How is this more efficient than blades in a turbine? Considering this design never took off (I think), I assume it’s not.
@@jck7986 I suppose it sacrifices efficency for simplicity
@@bl4cksp1d3rI mean... There is something called a Disk turbine. A type of blade-less turbine made out of metal disks that is extremely efficient and can give you way better results than a blade turbine... The only reason it doesn't get used is because it has a tendency to tear itself apart due to how powerful it is
@@bl4cksp1d3r I don't think its even simple as most other types of turbine has less moving parts
What if he plans on introducing fuel? 2 stroke...
There are two more seals that would also improve performance. The disk to wedge seal and the wedge to sphere seal. Without these seals, the engine is simply relying on air velocity to wobble the disk rather than a volume change caused by pressure.
The friction would destroy the plastic
@@derpinbird1180 there already exists 2 other rubber seals. Why should the two I suggest be made from plastic? Are you suggesting not sealing these regions?
@@acreery1 i think they mean the plastic of the casing/disc, not the plastic of the seals
Can't wait to see the prototype bud 😂
Maybe increasing the area of the outer part of the disc would increase the power of your engine .
A true proof of concept. A device that converts moving air into moving air!
I'm pretty sure if he just cuts the engine out and just lets the air flow out of the tube it's 100% efficiency with regards to moving air. (Which I believe is why he's using the propeller, correct?)
@@orion1816propeller works like a gearbox as he needs more torque
@@GewelReal you dont understand. The airflow he is using as power input will ultimately be the exact same airflow out as the propeller pushes. the system is useless.
@@orion1816 no, YOU don't understand.
air out of hose may produce a lot of thrust, but it's not optimised for lifting something heavy. It will work way worse than a propeller unless your goal would be speed (it may not take off the ground as well as a propeller if at all)
That’s a fan.
Tom Stanton might be interested in testing this design, I'm sure you know he made several compressed air engines for 2l bottle airplanes.
This also creates rotation directly instead of reciprocal motion, that's a big deal for efficiency
While watching the video i abolutely thought the same, right up @TomStantonEngineering 's alley, hope he sees this and someday makes something cool out of it.
isnt that just a worse version of the vane engine?
@@cancelhandles⚠️ God has said in the Quran:
🔵 { O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous - ( 2:21 )
🔴 [He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him]. ( 2:22 )
🔵 And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah, if you should be truthful. ( 2:23 )
🔴 But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.( 2:24 )
🔵 And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally. ( 2:25 )
⚠️ Quran
@@thomaskletzl6493I'd say yes.
I learned about nutating valves as a Power Engineer (boiler operator), they’re used for flow meters.
As far as I know EVERY natural gas and gasoline vending pump uses "nutating disk" flow sensors.
My Instrument lecturer invented/patented a nutating disk flowmeter, won the Queens award for it I believe, Mr Bob Drinkell.
That makes a lot of sense. Trying to use this design to actually power something is going to run into the fact that the mechanical leverage the air has on the disc is very low...so useful power output is going to be minimal.
Make sense as a sensor. Since the volume can be relatively easily determined.
As an engine, however, I am not so sure...
I am thinking just surface drag is probably enough to make the rod spin efficiently without the z shaft...
Most home water meters use this principle as well.
Dude, your idea with this engine is great. But follow the safety rules, don't stand in the plane of the propeller's rotation - it's dangerous! The printed part can break, and the blades can fly into your body.
For real! I was putting my safety squints on just watching lol
He knows. Let him do what he wants.
That's a carbon prop made for pushing a couple hundred watts of power into air. This motor can't even turn it hard enough to get the air flowing correctly.
That's not necessary with the proper application of a safety squint and a sphincter-operated E-stop.
@@mattw7949this is my new favourite comment ever
So, 3 ways to make this more efficient.
First we have to understand the high torque low speed nature of this engine. It runs at exceptionally low pressure and doesn't go very fast.
The first way to increase the efficiency would be to further stabilize the rod, as this will reduce friction. It was a tad wobbly.
The second way to increase efficiency would be to add a gear ratio to the propeller making the propeller spin between 1-2.5 times per rotation of the engine. This would add friction but help the engine convert torque to propeller speed.
The third way to increase efficiency would be to reduce the total number of gaskets used and make a more solid chassis around the disk, and reduce the size of the sphere in the middle. Using an interlocking chassis you can make a more definite tolerance, and use less gaskets. Reducing the size of the sphere would increase the total surface area of the piston without sacrificing too much volume or adding total size. I'm sure there is a 'too small' though as you could lose compression.
You could also experiment with changing the edge of the disk only around the area of the intake or outtake, as well as getting rid of the gap around the fin that interlocks with the disk and chassis to reduce bleed from one chamber to the next. The disk tilts so maybe use a parabolic shape. This point goes in tandem with @acreery1 comment.
How different is your commentary from "COOL, Dude" standard responses
I smell 150 minimum IQ
Yes we can recognize each other my fellow even at a distance
Though the feeling of loneliness is there, you are not, it's just because we are so few and separated
@@sorinavila5073 Apart from barely understanding what you're trying to say or whether or not this is sarcasm, sure! Thanks, you too man.
I have an even better way to increase efficiency and power. Make a rotary vane motor.
@@sorinavila5073 r/iamverysmart
@@sorinavila5073 what on earth are you yapping about
What if the exhaust goes to a second disk that is 90° out of phase? Then you get the exhaust's remaining energy powering a "mini-powe-stroke" in between your current power strokes.
Also imagine printing it in metal and running it off steam! 😁😁
That's interesting. I'm wondering how this system might operate in an even denser medium, like water. If it was eficient it may find application in smaller scale hydropower systems. Just a thought, since I'm no expert in that field.
@@waynecooper6124 you'd probably need at least a little air to keep it from locking up mid stroke, or modify the design slightly so that flow from intake to exhaust is never completely cut off
That would be so cool 😮😮
@@waynecooper6124 hmmm... The main differences would be that liquids are incompressible and have higher viscosity. I suspect the lack of compressibility might be an issue cos if there are points in the cycle where both the inlet and outlet are closed water wouldn't be doing work on the "piston" (in this case "wobbly disk"?). The higher viscosity MIGHT be a benefit as adhesion has some effect on a rotary engine at the surface. How much of an effect this actually has I don't know.
I thing a best of both worlds would be a supercritical fluid that has both the compressibility and the viscosity.
@@atrumluminarium dry ice maybe?
This design is used in the every day water meters outside most houses!
Petition to call it the wonkle engine
Nah, the willy wonka engine.
@@hotandsweaty6057 sounds like a fine compromise
Wankel Motor?!?
Wankin engine
You win the internet today!
It's not an engine, it's a motor. There is a difference.
I love the simple principle. So neat. But you were brave to hold the propeller at 4 bars - I just anticipated the wobbly printed plastic shaft of the propeller to snap on you! Gladly - it did not. Nice job.
My question is, will it work on suction alone? Because then you could create a closed loop system, sending the exhaust back to the compressor. Doubling the efficiency. Even if it can’t run on suction, the lower pressure on the exhaust side would be the same as running the intake side at a higher pressure for free. More like 1.5x efficiency. Otherwise when it comes to simplicity of manufacturing, I still think the classic pneumatic tool motors are more practical.
My man turned Saturn into an engine. GG Bro
Looks like a significantly less efficient version of a turbine. It's a great demonstration of the real engine, but probably not the best design for an air engine.
I came here to say this as well. To me, it looks like the air is just pushing it around rather than the proposed compression operation theory. Still neat though, especially the clear version. Not enough people make clear things
A better sealed version, especially one that actually HAS a seal to isolate the two sides of the disk, would work with any air flow rate and pressure, unlike a turbine. In essence this is a piston engine. Just a poorly sealed one, for now.
This isn't a turbine. Turbines rely on aerodynamic lift over the turbine blades and are tuned to work best at certain speeds. This relies on a trapped volume of air (or it will once it's sealed properly). I think it's a great idea.
@@jamescarruthers1967 You're right. It's less of a traditional turbine and more of a mix between a tesla turbine (also a turbine), a water wheel and a radial compressor run on reverse. I would love to see efficiency/power comparisons with other designs.
@@arturjogi6054I'd say it's not a piston engine, it's a STEAM engine.
Heyyy... That's awesome! There's a super-common use case for that structure: the nutating disc flowmeter; we used them in the Navy. Really cool to see it in a novel application.
It's sponsored content, but those clear parts are pretty impressive.
wonder how efficient this engine is 🤔
sounds amazing!
I have been trying to find someone to model this engine idea. Imagine a gear wrapped in a shroud. Each tooth drives a pocket of air. Now reduce that gear to just two long teeth (two for balance). Add a second gear to work against this first gear like a worm gear. The two gears will not drive each other. We will need to link them to keep them spinning in synch. While spinning, one tooth drives the air against the side of the tooth of the other gear. Then they trade places as the teeth pass one another. One last thing is to flip one of the gears inside out and make it slightly bigger to avoid the teeth clashing at the opposite end. This should reduce the air leakage due to the curvature of the gears. Use a separate shaft to keep the two spinning in a one-to-one ratio and you should have a neat engine with 4 distinct strokes. Two expansion and two compression. Also, all torque is applied tangentially to the axis giving excellent performance.
Correct me if I’m wrong but this is how a hydraulic piston pump/motor works, just the pistons act as valves in the hydraulic version.
Intersting idea- its like a boxer engine but without the seperate crank shaft between the cylinders....but Two points to add-
1: Wear in the cylinder over long term operation- it would be interesting to see how much loss due to friction in the cylinder you generate.
2: Vibration - it would seem that having the axis of the "piston" disk at an angle would generate a fairly significant sideways/rotational vibration; so again something to measure on an efficiency loss
These are neat! Cool to see you make one! Great video as always.
Using moving air to turn a blade so that it can move air.
Awesome!
(Nice work, great design)
I think this is worth pursuing even further. Seems to have some potential in it. Very nice!
Put a ring around the disc like piston rings from any internal combustion engine. That may improve the sealing, Good video I didn't know this tipe of of engine.
Great idea! Somehow you need to overcome the need for the initial push that starts the motion. For a real life application, the need for the initial kick to start it would be a show-stopper.
Why? Any petrol engine today is kickstarted by an electric starter motor
@@generic_programmer I don't have to kick-start the motor on my motorized screw driver each time I want to use it.
this particular turbine is most likely for use in a hobby sized compressed air plane. a manual rotation is actually a design feature (to let you hold it before launch, and choose when to initiate launch)
@7:12 the second valve improved the exhaust pressure and made it spin slightly faster than without the valve. Keeping the pressure high inside the engine.
Nice project! I noticed the propeller shaft is wobbling which means it is under stress
Great idea, and really cool execution! Make sure you patent it if you can and haven’t already!
Too late for a Patent - showing it to the world first is a sure fire way of stopping a Patent from happening.
@@VisualPrecisionLtd I believe there's a one-year grace period within which you can file a patent, but that expires after that first year.
There may be exceptions to that, but that's what I understand to be the case in the U.S.
pretty sure he showed the patents that NASA had on this right at the start didnt he?
8:20 WOW - You even designed in a quick-detach option for easy cleaning!
Lol bro 😂
8:20 pinnacle of human engineering
Add an impression into each side of the disc in the shape of your ignition chamber. As the disc goes up and down, this could add to compression and make it more airtight as well. It would take computerized timing to get right, but it’s probably a worthwhile step to try.
1. Reminds me of the ROFLcopter sound made by microsoft sam, soi soi soi soi soi soi...
2. if you send designs for someone else to print, make sure that either you have a patent or that the design is properly in public domain first, otherwise you may lose the rights to the design.
3. Here are the four horsemen of engines that work well in theory, but not in the real world:
A. Straight, edged, or otherwise unfavorably shaped sealing between the main power harnessing element and the rest of the combustion chamber (Wankel, vane, rotaries in general, rectangular piston, the indexing key sealing on this one, etc)
B. Non-positive sealing (Coates, rotary valving in general, the spherical axle sealing on this one, etc)
C. Undampened full engine power going through a lashing mechanism, generally gears (Achates, Avadi, etc.)
D. Exotically machined parts to avoid the problem above (INNengine, etc.)
This is a quality response. You've clearly understood the practical engineering issues at a granular level where most people don't see the subtleties. When I saw the Honda oval piston I thought, "That won't work well". They would have been better with a squashed circle profile instead of oval so that at least there was a constant curve.
Inventors are so much better than bean counters- Keep up the good work 👍
Are you trying to compete with Tom Stanton?
dont let the physicists touch the tools anymore
nice job man. thanks for video. i think better to use air sealings instead of rubber gaskets. also you can make another sealing in edge of ufo shape. make its edge like a grave for air also make some holes in ufo up and down sides to guid air from out of ufo to its inside and then through air channels to air grave in ufo edge. this way a small portion of air will guide to edge of ufo and will restrict air flow from edge of ufo up or down. this way you can increase distance between ufo edge and cylinder. same you can do for rubber gasket with replacing by air sealing.
good thing you manage to publish the video before No-Nut(ating)-November.
Na man, it's non-stop nutating November 😂
It is a nutating disc. This design is used in fluid flow meters.
Who knew Saturn was a motor. Oh wait he keeps us moving. Makes sense.
New sub here. As a proof of concept this thing is pretty incredible. Looking forward to your next iteration!
Excellent POC !!! With few adjustments let’s hope it can generate more power with lesser pressure !
This looks awesome and promising! I have a question, born out of uninformed curiosity: how cost-effective can this be? How easy, cheap or sustainable is the access to compressed air to power a machine with this engine?
Marvelous! Does it work as a good pump if given rotation by external force?
Excellent work
Thanks man
In order to make this into a servicable craft, one would only need to change the gearing on the shaft, then route the air from your pump to the other propeller-mounted turbines(apparently). Hook up an air an compressor to the harness with the throttle hooked up to air controll, and set up a gyroscope, and you're set
Plz use the wobbling motor to make a Wobot
This closely resembles a peristaltic motion of the air volume as it turns in one direction. Another example worth trying is the rolling piston engine. I think you will find it easier to make it more airtight.
Of course that simple ideas could make a huge difference in the future good job man.
maybe if you put other air inlet in 45º or 90º it may help to do more pressure when the first inlet is bypassing between air flow up and down and when te second is changing, the fisrt will be in the best position. i think that the max speed and the torque will be incerase (sorry for my english, i'm learning)
brilliant!, simple, you have a blow through freewheeling of air that is wasteful, but still useful or maybe even needed. if you get the right length of hose, you can set up a resonance in the hose and the tank pressure that is constant. as the air pressure drops, velocity goes up, so when the valve comes back and cuts through a low pressure, but a high air flow, the velocity gets converted to pressure inside volume being, pushing down to turn. If you make two interleaved halves, 180 degrees out, a left and a right with a center injection port. then no blow by is created and all pressure power is used. Capturing some of with resonance is not needed. But you need 2, but that's ok cause it will 2x the power out!
or
Nice, what about water instead of air?
I'm curious as well, water doesn't really compress so I'd like to know what it would do in that
Thanks for making a video on the topic!
Nice work. With the exhaust Port being right beside the intake would there not be a significant amount of air bleeding across and going straight out the the exhaust? could this be remedied by moving the exhaust the opposite corner of the intake to reduce the valve overlap. Also is the locating Notch necessary? Would there be any harm with the disc rotating freely in it's housing? Keep up the good work
Locating notch would be better placed 180⁰ opposite to avoid most bleeding
But it's a prototype with more optimization ahead
I don't think you need to make the seal airtight on the top and bottom. It acts like a continuous wing. What's important is the different pressure zones between the top and bottom of the wing. Intuitively, if you had the fluid enter at 0 degrees, and exit at 270 degrees, you should get an adequate pressure differential between the top and bottom halves to keep the turbine engine turning, even without sealing. You may also need to increase the surface area of the wing (e.g. the radius of the ring). These changes might let you use it for higher pressure situations, e.g. with water, since you would have much higher tolerances due to fewer physical parts in contact.
One - Congrats on getting me to sit and watch all the way through an advertising aside. You actually integrated the segue into your running commentary quite well, and had built good "momentum" by the time you got to the parts that were pure advertising. JLCPCB spent their money well here.
Two - I would be interested in seeing you take this design in a second direction. I am very curious as to how this nutating turbine(?) functions as a hydraulic engine. I would like to see some discussion about its use both as a hydraulic actuator and as a possible water-driven motor for some kind of small hydropower system.
STL files in the description, if you're going to print this project, there's also a little note about the assembly. don't forget to subscribe!!
Here's an idea 👉 Get a coupler for the inlet port, an extra piece of hose and feed the outlet back into the inlet. I think it's an awesome design, and the efficiency could also be improved by putting some texture on the surface of the ball, like small scales.. 🖖
Release a part two with the improvements! Would you use hand tools to carve it down or change the design?
To supply air in this engine you need an air compressor, which is already working by an electricity. That's 1 more step converting the energy from electric to kinetic energy of air molecules. Instead of this you can directly use electricity to rotate the blades, using electric motor. But the consept is interesting!
Tom Stanton needs to see this!
Would adding a tapered ridge to the sphere on the friction zone and a corresponding valley on the cover help with air loss? Possibly eliminating the gaskets necessity altogether?
Amazing job with the concept by the way! New subscriber.
A wobbling gyroscope would be my next suggestion. A spinning disk will wobble like that without air, so the air would maintain the wobble frequency while using some of the acceleration in the wobble. I didn't use the word momentum, because angular momentum has nothing to do with "why" a gyro does what it does. Modern science cannot see that. Look at my version based in acceleration. It's CAUSAL, and it don't need a right-hand rule first.
Considering it's a first prototype, I'd say it's pretty good. I'll be very interested to see an improved version 😁
Cunnect the air out to your compressor intake or a "vakuumer"/strong dust sucker.
In a fictive real live costrucktion a air compressor could be part of the circle by deliver positve and negative pressure at the same time.
What about way larger wings and stronger construcktion and let the force be delivered by hydraulik over all?
may be slowe the nair but way more force possible, so larger bladewings could be used.
You made me curious at all^^
That’s amazing !
Awesome. What's the efficiency? Durability?
Cool concept, great execution and only one question - how is this better than a turbine with blades? It does not seem like a viable engine due to low torque.
Very cool idea, and great implementation. What about a multi-stage version?
Well done 👍 buddy
How come you have rotation in reverse of the blades effect
Says "Why does no one do this?" Immediately runs into the main reasons why no one does it. Got it.
Awesome. Could you build a wobbly air compressor to pair with this? (Reverse so motor turns the ball and air is exhausted)
Did you calculate the energy loss? It looks very inefficient and doesnt seem to offer any tradeoffs?
Very nice work, keep experimenting
Adamsın sonunda bir türk böyle güzel video çekilmiş
You made the perfect STEAM engine concept:)
Wow. I have been trying to think of an engine like this for a very long time. Very cool.
If the parts were precisely fitted and balanced to create a very tiny tolerance between the sphere, the disk, and the case, it would create a better seal with substantially less friction. If there was a thin layer of oil inside the case to increase the air seal and decrease the friction by lubricating the surfaces, it would be expected that the turbine would become much more efficient and powerful.
بسیارعالی وجالب است شماآن راازکره ای زمین تقلیدکرده اید❤❤❤
I think it's a mistake to have that keyway that keeps the disc in one position. Remove the keyway, make the disk continuous all round and let it rotate if it wants to. I think you'll find the overall effect is better. It's also creating friction between the disk and the key. You may also find making the surface of the disk where the air impacts it slightly concave as if a mild torus has been subtacted from the shape might improve it also. I think you'll find it will work better with more closely-engineered surfaces than using rubber seals and then letting it run at a faster speed.
This device would make a good pre-rotation drive for an auto gyro lift rotor! This would be instead of the current friction drive using pulleys and a flexible drive shaft and head sprocket. There would be no need to engage a clutch since the air driven ‘wobbler disc’ and z shaft assembly could be permanently engaged with only compressed air needed via an airline. A tank of compressed air could be carried on the airframe to operate it and re pressurised between flights. Alternatively, the aircraft engine could be linked to a small air compressor for autonomous re pressurisation whilst on the ground.
Always trade offs. No free lunch. Complex can add efficientcy, simple can have a low maintenence system but less efficient. Choose whats most valuable for the application.
i wonder if using a different seal would work better than rubber. I wonder if Nylon would work. Or at least something with low friction that can hold air. I could be wrong but never know till you try right? Nice work hope to see more. You have a new subscriber.
A wobbling disk engine, like Euler's disk, is not particularly efficient in terms of energy conservation or useful work output. Its main appeal is the visual effect and the physics principles it illustrates, rather than efficiency. When you spin or wobble the disk, it quickly starts to lose energy through various forms of dissipation:
1. Friction - Even with minimal surface friction, there’s still contact with the table or base, which slows it down over time.
2. Air Resistance - The disk moves through the air, which creates drag and reduces speed.
3. Sound and Vibration - The wobbling generates sound and sometimes vibration, which also drains energy from the system.
These losses make it inefficient at conserving energy. Unlike engines that are designed to produce useful work by efficiently converting energy from one form to another (like a car engine converting fuel to motion
I suppose it'd be easy enough to add more discs out of phase with the first which may help with that start up (three times more likely for one of the discs to be in a good position to just start moving, but also heavier and may need more pressure to start). I like it!
Extremely good work, Sir.. and very entertaining.
So just saying steam engines used oil so your air engine may benefit from oil injected with the air, only problem is you need to collect it after the air passes through.
Graphite works great for both sealing and reducing friction
That's a good idea, I think this is a good application for the use of graphite instead of seals and oil.
Probably could run some powder through it and it would self-coat all surfaces by embedding to the plastics. Maybe a primer first to soften the top micron of plastic, low percent oil/acetone blend. Of course not on the transparent one or it would not be so transparent anymore.
I wonder if this works with air, would it work with a fluid like water? 🤔
Using source compressed air to do work. Using that work so spin an air compressor. Would it be more efficient to use a nozzle and push the source compressed air out of the back of the plane directly?
5 years from now someone will make this a car/truck motor just like the guys who built the car that runs and drives off water. Great work🫡! Love how you explained everything with detail throughout the process.
"chamfer"@4:24 no! Instead subtract a sphere with something like 0.01mm to 0.05mm bigger radius then the sphere below to minimize air loss then use step format. However you are blowing to create another blow through mechanical, with a 90 degree bent down of the air compressor tube you get easily transmit thrust more efficiently
I wonder how well that might work for micro-hydro electric use? Would it work with water?
small water pumps use this concept
It looks incredibly inefficient. Nice demonstration. Thanks! 🙂
Would it be helpful to make it a complete system loop. Air inlet from the compressor and outlet being sucked out by the compressor for a loop? I'm not an engineer but in my head it should help increase speeds.
"The best thing about this engine is it doesn't have any complex valves, a crank or even a piston inside". No they are all in the compressor.
Cool build. I'm wondering with some tweaks if you could get a tesla disc working with very similar setup
@retsetman9698 I think you can adjust the torque and speed, by tilting the disc more or less. 45° maybe ?
It's called "nutating disk". The principle has been used in positive displacement flowmeters for many decades.
Super interesting! I do wonder what potential benefit this design has over a more typical turbine? I bet this would work really well as a compressor.
As it is, it's a great "uncompressor" 😂
i believe this is good for a steam generator? maybe, could you replace the pistons with this? of course, made with metal.