As someone who basically had to cut off parts of her extended family after coming out i can speak from personal experience that family or not your better off without some types of people in your life.
It is kinda gross that a 30 year old has to rp domestic life with their sibling. And the homophobia? And then the crying when OP stopped? I would definitely stop roleplaying with her and going low contact. Something is very wrong with the sister
Yeah, I play DND with my sister, but we have very clear boundaries. That scenario is fucking weird, and the sister really needs to reflect on herself and why she thinks is appropriate to reflect those actions in a positive light. And the op needs to get the hell away from her
> It is kinda gross that a 30 year old has to rp domestic life with their sibling. What's gross about it? Like, the non-concentual stuff is gross. The stuff involving children is gross. The homophobia is gross. But what is gross about two siblings playing a roleplaying game together?
The No Sympathy story is pretty easy. Kick that player and move on with your life. It’s most important that your villain has logic to it. Even if he’s crazy and stupid they need follow their own line of reasoning to maintain consistency.
I love to invert the trope where it’s actually a completely irredeemable villain posing as one that has sympathetic ideas. The main villain of my current campaign literally only wants to give the world over to a eldritch god of flesh so he can become a god of the reborn world. But he’s posing as a largely altruistic philanthropist who tries to play by the rules in an industrializing world. He’s playing both sides of the board waiting to strike. I’m hoping I’m doing it right because it’d be the best of both worlds. The act of sympathy and even attempt to get the party to aid him then revealing it all was a lie to achieve his goals.
The reveal on stupid big bads are the best. Especially if you give them a coherent reason for being the big bad, either the blessing of a luck God or being the patsy for a surprise villain. But then when the players finally come face to face with this monstrous Warlord who has weaved through opportunities and calamities to carve up 5 kingdoms only to learn... he's just completely stupid and freakishly lucky.
Obviously, being cursed with immortality doesn't excuse trying to wipe out a civilization. The point of sympathetic villains is to show the audience how they themselves are not immune to villainy. Whether by being put in a desperate situation, blindly following a flawed ideology, or other circumstances, anyone can be driven to harm others. That's all besides the point though: that player must have assumed the absolute worst of OP to lash out like that, which is not the kind of energy they need at their table. I know its easy for me to say "just kick 'em," but seriously...
I was gonna say, there's a difference between a complex villain and a sympathetic one but people conflate the two a lot largely due to the over saturation of villain redemption stories. Especially the redemption stories that should be irredeemable like genocide. A villain can be complex and layered with a tragic explanation for their actions but thats not the same as a sympathetic villain using the backstory as a fully justified excuse. One of my favorite villains is a perfect example of how both nature and nurture can shape a person, he has experienced tragedy but he is still undoubtedly an irredeemable monster you aren't meant to sympathize with from the moment he murders his father.
Sounded like OP mixed up tragic with sympathetic, which a lot of people do. Fortunately it didn't sound like the group was supposed to side with that BBEG, just understand he's not evil for the sake of it.
@@ArcCaravan tragic/ˈtrajik/ adjective: 1. causing or characterized by extreme distress or sorrow. sym·pa·thy /ˈsimpəTHē/ noun: 1.feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.
Genuinely worried about the sister. Her logic of "gay bad" "Diddler not their fault" speaks to potential past trauma, or a sick mindset, or trying to make excuses for someone else. None of these are good and all require distance and therapy.
I assume "gay bad" is her true mindset while "diddler not their fault" was just an excuse to deny satisfying justice to her pet OC assaulting his gay character.
just normal religion things tbh. somehow pretending that someone else's differences are only because they're sick or injured or unwillfully ignorant provides the necessary justification to be completely fucking awful to them without having to acknowledge the immorality inherent in their own behavior. it's the same way they they treat trans people or people of other religions or people who have justified doubts and questions about their beliefs. just yesterday i had a literal child, at least 20 years my junior, who hadn't yet graduated from high school tell me "it's okay, i've been where you are". i hadn't said anything personal about myself or my beliefs yet, i was just asking them questions about what they believe and why. when i pointed this out, they cut all contact lol
Dang it I should've done that, my character started the campaign with 54 sanity and after one session she's already lost 5 sanity, PLUS THERE'S A PC STALKER THAT STALKS MY CHARACTER AND WANTS HER TO MARRY HIM (we agreed on this out of character, it's funny to roleplay my character being oblivious to the guy being a weirdo and just assuming "oh he's... a random weirdo. i'll ignore that")
I think that the most important thing about writing a villain is writing a villain that can be understood, AVATAR is actually good example we understand Zuko as a villain and are able to sympathise and understand his redemption, but we also understand Ozai and why he cannot be redeemed only stopped.
@@conspiracypanda1200 Honestly, one of the most incredible things in Avatar's writing is that all of the active members of the villainous Fire Nation royal family were all so perfectly intertwined in their motivations and histories, yet perfectly capable of growing into three completely different types of villains. That's extremely hard to pull off, yet they did it so well.
For me, a good villain needs two things: a style that clicks with the story (players included), and to make sense. Not make good calls or have good ideas. Just an internal logic. The Empire in Star Wars is REALLY clearly evil and wrong, but they think they make sense.
And the Empire is not a monolith. It is large enough to find pockets of sympathetic characters, resistances, spies, turncoats, and then the CLEARLY evil mofos that have a god complex or use force lightning arbitrarily.. or both.
And something that I think gets put by the wayside in a lot of media and discourse about Star Wars is how much the average person could see benefits under the Empire. Bureaucracy that prevented people from living decent lives under the Republic went away. It went away because the Empire exploited millions of people but it just adds internal logic to people who believed in the Empire’s cause. And I always find that really interesting
"Stan" ... has a child. That's the true horror story, here. No Outer God and eldritch things needed. Jeebus. Edit: I hope the sister in the final story NEVER meets "Stan."
What kind of villains you like could be a good thing to bring up in session 0. I've never thought of it before, but if your players hate a complex or tragic villain and just want to kill faceless goons, (or vice versa, if the DM leans toward basic evil villains and the players want to engage more with drama) it's probably going to save everyone a headache to clear that up at the beginning.
I can agree with this. I side with Crispy on "villains aren't automatically bad if they're not sympathetic or deep or relatable". Some of our favorite bad guys - Ursula the Sea Witch, Bowser, even Robbie Rotten - are just mustache-twirling doofuses with a fun demeanor that we love to have in the room. But that doesn't change the fact that many people (often writer types) won't engage with the villain if they're not just as detailed and "well-written" as the rest of the cast. I may think that's a shame, but in D&D where everyone is collaborating to tell this story, it's important that everyone is on the same page.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, explict s*xual violence takes away from horror because it puts you into a place of disgust and saddness instead of terror. I feel that goes double for the kind of horror that CoC is supposed to focus on, which is cosmic and psychological horror with entities I highly doubt would care the least about "pleasures of the flesh".
For the afk story I do sort of understand leaving without a notice. Sometimes nature calls and you can't wait, or you have been waiting and there's never a good moment to call a break. When doing our online campaign, I rarely say anything when I go because I don't want to interrupt the group's flow. I quick "sorry I went to the bathroom while you were talking, did I miss anything important" usually suffices, and sometimes I just don't say anything and gather what happened from context. It's not always due to a lack of respect or lack of interest. This is more for the DM's side of things, since it doesn't apply to Steve- If he doesn't say anything, he doesn't have the right to get angry when he misses important information. Just apologize and move on.
i've just realized that i can't remember the last time i heard about someone being arbitrarily cruel that didn't involve their god and it's ostensible wishes.
For the only reachable by boat thing from CoC. I checked and Beunos Aires didn't have any airport until 1947. Also a commerical flight would be done on what is called a flying boat since the range of piston engine aircraft meant they would frequently need to stop at prepared islands to refuel. For some context, going from San Franciso to China in the 1930s by plane meant stopping at Hawaii, Midway Atoll, Wake Island, and then Shanghai.
24:40 I - No. I suppose it’s not always a PDFfile’s fault they are the way they are. However, suppose I was brainwashed as a child to believe human life is worthless and everyone is better off dead. It wouldn’t be my fault I thought that way, exactly. I’m still culpable if I commit murder, though! Yeesh. Definitely A CONCERNING SISTER!
The No Sympathy story LMAO. I know a few people who use DnD as an escape from the complexity of life, and I feel like OP had a hardcore case of that. Faced with the horrifying ordeal of NUANCE, they just had a meltdown. I hope they stuck to their villain in the end.
that cthulhu one sure is... special. i run a VTM game with a lot of the personal horror aspect and "stains on your humanity" happen multiple times a session, and the worst thing that happened to a kid so far was... being slightly grumpily asked for directions by a player character. and the morally worst thing that happened in general probably was when they scared an NPC so hard (faded-to-black) they had to leave town, to protect the masquerade :P you can play bad people without actively reveling in being bad people yourself, that's kinda the whole point of horror.
I get a bit tired of "who wants to be immortal" ... it's a valid story... but it gets tiring when it is the only trope applied to immortality. The fun-loving immortal guy in Sandman was such a breath of fresh air.
I think the reason the CoC story GM hasn't run anymore games is because he's either in prison or someone complained to the Roll20 admins and they perma-banned his ass from their community and completely nuked his account.
I only started playing early this year, with a group of people I didn’t know before. But I feel so incredibly lucky. They’re an awesome bunch, there have been no red (or even orange) flags and they’ve been really supportive of a newbie, even when I realise after a session that I misused a spell or something.
I snort laughed at the "I quickly became homophobic" cut. But seriously, don't be homophobic, guys. Thats's cringe. Edit: WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE SISTER?!
Sounded like the sister really wanted to spite the homosexual character while denying satisfying justice. The way she did it was still stupidly hypocritical and I'd recommend finding new superior players.
@@emberfist8347 Was complex enough to get that player whining about sympathetic villains ever existing. Being better written wouldn't have prevented the raging response.
For OP of the No Sympathy story. Villains with simple motivations that aren't sympathetic are actually less like cartoons than more complex villains. Greed, Bigotry or anger are enough to drive many people do terrible things.
I’m someone who likes to make a lot of jokes and poke fun at friends, but I’m always sure to get to know people well before doing so and to never take shots at sensitive spots.
This may be the last comment I ever leave on RUclips as I've found myself in a horrible situation, I've lost means to get to work and thus rely on Uber, it's been a struggle...but I just found out my account was hacked and I lost a lot of money, I only have enough left to get to work tomorrow and will likely lose my job the following day, crispy I just wanna say thank you so much for providing me with hours of entertainment,your a very kind and funny soul,and you've meant so much to me lately and given me something to relax with and enjoy even when dealing with hardships, I wish you the best and hope one day I can post again on your comments if Im not homeless....thanks for being a spark of light in the dark
It's been two months since you've left this comment, but I genuinely hope that things have gotten better for you; or that things will get better for you soon. I've never really been one to pray, but just in case prayers actually DO help, you'll be in my prayers tonight. Stay strong, honey. As someone's who's hit the bottom of the barrel more times than I can count, I promise you that things can get better.
The fact that the sister not only did THAT, but was emotionally manipulative and abusive when the other sibling tried to set a boundary about it says some REALLY fucked up things about them. Either they faced some SERIOUS trauma, or they are a TERRIBLE person. Either way, if I was OP, I'd distance myself from this sister and let them know outright just HOW fucked up what they suggested was and tell her she NEEDS to see a therapist. After that, I'd just go no contact for a while for my own mental health. I know that easier said than done, but I've done it with my own sister, and it actually helped out our relationship a ton because the next time I saw her, she was a LOT gentler with me, and generally not abusive anymore. She's been doing even better since seeing a therapist. Sometimes the only way to get a sibling to see just how much their behaviors affected you is to just go without them for a bit. It doesn't always work, but it does help YOU for sure!
I've heard a few of these stories on other channels but I really enjoy listening to both your take on them and seeing your skits around them. Keep up the good work Crispy!
I'm a simple viewer. If I see "D&D" in the title, I click "Do not recommend." Crispy, you are just about the ONLY channel who gets an exception to that, EVER, because I like you. But when I see "RPG" in there instead of hasbro gaming... I watch.
Nah bro after hearing the last story, op should considered cutting out her toxic sister. Something tell me that her homophobic side is legit showing what her true character is always been. Believe what they show you and leave.
5:26 One of my favorite villains in fiction is Grand Admiral Thrawn from the Star Wars Legacy EU. He's absolutely not sympathetic one bit. But what he is, is *INTERESTING.*
I would bet good money that the "your villain character is terrible" guy is an anti-woke media critic. People who get unreasonably angry when stories are told in a way they don't like and doesn't specially cater to their tastes. Instead of calmly accepting that not everything that exists will be for them, they make their denial everyone else's problem. On a side note, reading the line "normal for CoC", and not laughing must have taken will power.
I was guessing the "No Sympathy" problem player may have had a bad reaction to hearing the topic of "self deletion". Still could have handled it better than cursing out the DM while only saying it's because it wrecks a power fantasy.
You are pointing at something that isn't there. After all we don't know the whole story and knowing about bad writing the sympathic backstory was tacked on after the villain did something irredeemable.
@@emberfist8347 We don't know whether or not the villain was just a generic BBEG who had tragedy tacked on at the last minute. Feels like people assume the complaining player was disagreeing on how sympathetic the BBEG is rather than being mad there was any attempt at sympathy.
@@emberfist8347 Sure I'm making assumptions based off of observed behavior of other people who act the same way for the same reasons. But does knowing the whole story make that guy's response justifiable or acceptable? Is having a tantrum and ruining everyone else's night the appropriate response to hearing something you don't like? Sometimes the whole story is just that someone is being an asshole. Maybe that guy was the simplistic villain he was looking for all along.
I actually had similar idea as a villain for the No Sympathy story. The players are all the gallant, talk this out, save their rage for only the truly monstrous, sort of party. Well, what's the best anti-thesis for that, someone who can't be killed, can't be talked down, and most importantly, can't be saved. A piteous wreck who was the one that killed their entire civilization by making such a Faustian bargain. I even worked sympathy into their powers, binding themselves to other people so he and they share damage, he gets up after a while, they do not. Seeing this reaction, is really a bit weird. I tend to really like characters with complex motivations and non-standard approaches to good and evil. But at least I'm prepared now for how badly someone could take it.
I'm working on building up a villain that's a fallen hero. He's comvinced himself that he's still working for the greater good and could be argued to be, even if he's going about it the wrong way. I want the conflict to be between whether the ends justify the means or if he's deluding himself in pursuit of power. I only just introduced my party to the idea of a BBEG working behind the scenes a few days ago so the payoff is a long way away
People say that being immortal sucks because you'll see everyone you love die and won't be able to open up to people. As if normal human relationships tend to actually last a full lifetime and people don't move on.
I also forgot about the age from the start and really thought it's some teen bullshit and uhh... OP.... you gotta talk to your sister about it... it's easy to say to "cut randoms from your life" but with your family you can put some work in and maybe you can potentially reach her. Cause that's crazy asf, imagine a person like this around your kids, or around her own kids, that's dangerous
I'd argue for an intervention with more family, but that'd risk them turning on OP for playing homosexuals as something okay (assuming they taught sister her homophobia).
No sympathy reminds me of the main villain of Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura. In that game the villain wants to end all life because existence is painful and there’s an objectively real afterlife that is free of suffering, so he wants to put the world out of its collective misery.
@@emberfist8347 The pacifist option for dealing with the villain is passing a speech check to make him realize that what he wants for himself shouldn’t be imposed on everyone in Arcanum, not everyone in life is suffering and not every soul wants to stay dead.
@@CrispysTavern bro, I own the entire PJO series of books and the HoO sequel series, it’s some pretty lit stuff. I even have a few of the Magnus Chase books, and the first one of those was pretty awesome too. The second book of that series even introduced a gender-fluid child of Loki, which is an interesting trait really, and it’s done pretty well, and also because in mythology Loki is known for shape shifting, sometimes into animals and sometimes just swapping sexes on the fly
Not a psychologist but I’ve seen some 💩 On the last story I think the sister might be using roleplaying to “air out some trama” it’s that she’s brought grape (presumably at a young age) into her game and has continued it into adulthood. I think the op might want to suggest therapy to his sister to see if there’s something to why she has to have these plot hooks. I’m wondering if the character she’s using is an actual person.
warcraft 3 i had sympathy for sylvanas maybe even as far as about wrath sylvanaas post wrath that sympathy dries up and its completely gone when she kills Saurfang the Elder
Yeah, it's genuinely disturbing what heinous shit people will defend. Many years ago, it came to light that long-time friend of mine had been perpetrating inappropriate acts on the 5-year-old daughter of a mutual friend. His "defence" for this was that she (the *5-year-old* girl) had "psychically invaded" his mind and "forced him to do it" (I shit you not, that's legit what that freak claimed). Of course, that was the end of the friendship so far as I was concerned. What he had done was unforgivable - in my opinion, anyway. Unfortunately, my opinion was not shared by everyone... My first ex-wife berated me for not forgiving him, called _me_ a *_monster_* for not forgiving him for doing that to a 5-year-old child... after all, *_God_* forgives him, so therefore I'm the evil one for not forgiving him. P3dophilia? Oh, that's forgivable. Not forgiving p3dophiles? Nah, that makes you a fucking monster! I do not associate with that ex-wife, either. My life is vastly improved by the loss of both of them.
How to deal with an immortal villain who wants to die: Step one: defeat the villain. Step two: chop the villain into tiny pieces. Step 3: Place the villain pieces in Leomund's Secret Chest. Step four: Send the chest to the ethereal plane. Step five: Destroy the recall chest. Step six: Laugh maniacally, as the still immortal , villain is trapped (in pieces) in a chest that is irretrievably lost in the multiverse.
Sympathetic villain story - It sounds like all but one of your players were enjoying the game just fine. If he hadn't thrown a fit, I'd have just said you two have different wants from a game, but with him flipping out like that, he has a lot more wrong than just having different taste in stories. Write games that you find interesting and enjoy it with the rest of your players. CoC. Yikes. I've played in a few games online now and every single one discusses everyone's comfort levels with adult content during session zero. (I've also yet to see ANY game that allows explicit adult content... pretty much every game I'm in is like, romance is fine, but fade to black please.) It's pretty gross for someone to start going into that kind of content without having discussed it beforehand with the players. Major yikes.
Just so you know, Argentina had commercial flights since 1928, but flights at that time were extremely expensive no matter where you lived. Think of private jets kind of expensive.
![Kodak Black - Catch Fire [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/A4ch-olIuZo/mqdefault.jpg)
As someone who basically had to cut off parts of her extended family after coming out i can speak from personal experience that family or not your better off without some types of people in your life.
It is kinda gross that a 30 year old has to rp domestic life with their sibling. And the homophobia? And then the crying when OP stopped?
I would definitely stop roleplaying with her and going low contact. Something is very wrong with the sister
Yeah, I play DND with my sister, but we have very clear boundaries. That scenario is fucking weird, and the sister really needs to reflect on herself and why she thinks is appropriate to reflect those actions in a positive light. And the op needs to get the hell away from her
It's giving strong "attempted incestuous grooming" vibes to say the least...
> It is kinda gross that a 30 year old has to rp domestic life with their sibling.
What's gross about it?
Like, the non-concentual stuff is gross. The stuff involving children is gross. The homophobia is gross.
But what is gross about two siblings playing a roleplaying game together?
@@BAVy11037 Did you not listen to the damn video? She was literally grooming op using sex roleplay...
@BAVy11037 ya that part I don't get but the rest, op should just go no contact. Always believe what they show you in personality.
The No Sympathy story is pretty easy. Kick that player and move on with your life. It’s most important that your villain has logic to it. Even if he’s crazy and stupid they need follow their own line of reasoning to maintain consistency.
I love to invert the trope where it’s actually a completely irredeemable villain posing as one that has sympathetic ideas. The main villain of my current campaign literally only wants to give the world over to a eldritch god of flesh so he can become a god of the reborn world. But he’s posing as a largely altruistic philanthropist who tries to play by the rules in an industrializing world. He’s playing both sides of the board waiting to strike. I’m hoping I’m doing it right because it’d be the best of both worlds. The act of sympathy and even attempt to get the party to aid him then revealing it all was a lie to achieve his goals.
yeah that's like "Exhibit A" for someone who can't tell the game/characters from the players, and we've all seen where that leads...
The reveal on stupid big bads are the best. Especially if you give them a coherent reason for being the big bad, either the blessing of a luck God or being the patsy for a surprise villain. But then when the players finally come face to face with this monstrous Warlord who has weaved through opportunities and calamities to carve up 5 kingdoms only to learn... he's just completely stupid and freakishly lucky.
OP's sister is a real piece of work.
What's more, no one should defend over the line behavior.
Anyone else giggle every time Crispy said CoC?
Obviously, being cursed with immortality doesn't excuse trying to wipe out a civilization. The point of sympathetic villains is to show the audience how they themselves are not immune to villainy. Whether by being put in a desperate situation, blindly following a flawed ideology, or other circumstances, anyone can be driven to harm others.
That's all besides the point though: that player must have assumed the absolute worst of OP to lash out like that, which is not the kind of energy they need at their table. I know its easy for me to say "just kick 'em," but seriously...
I was gonna say, there's a difference between a complex villain and a sympathetic one but people conflate the two a lot largely due to the over saturation of villain redemption stories. Especially the redemption stories that should be irredeemable like genocide. A villain can be complex and layered with a tragic explanation for their actions but thats not the same as a sympathetic villain using the backstory as a fully justified excuse.
One of my favorite villains is a perfect example of how both nature and nurture can shape a person, he has experienced tragedy but he is still undoubtedly an irredeemable monster you aren't meant to sympathize with from the moment he murders his father.
Sounded like OP mixed up tragic with sympathetic, which a lot of people do. Fortunately it didn't sound like the group was supposed to side with that BBEG, just understand he's not evil for the sake of it.
@@ArcCaravan
tragic/ˈtrajik/
adjective:
1. causing or characterized by extreme distress or sorrow.
sym·pa·thy /ˈsimpəTHē/
noun:
1.feelings of pity and sorrow for someone else's misfortune.
@@RiveroftheWither And yet people who attempt genocide are still given redemption stories *cough*Loki*cough*.
@@RiveroftheWitherI’m gonna guess DIO ??
Genuinely worried about the sister. Her logic of "gay bad" "Diddler not their fault" speaks to potential past trauma, or a sick mindset, or trying to make excuses for someone else. None of these are good and all require distance and therapy.
I assume "gay bad" is her true mindset while "diddler not their fault" was just an excuse to deny satisfying justice to her pet OC assaulting his gay character.
just normal religion things tbh. somehow pretending that someone else's differences are only because they're sick or injured or unwillfully ignorant provides the necessary justification to be completely fucking awful to them without having to acknowledge the immorality inherent in their own behavior. it's the same way they they treat trans people or people of other religions or people who have justified doubts and questions about their beliefs. just yesterday i had a literal child, at least 20 years my junior, who hadn't yet graduated from high school tell me "it's okay, i've been where you are". i hadn't said anything personal about myself or my beliefs yet, i was just asking them questions about what they believe and why. when i pointed this out, they cut all contact lol
No, that's just a normal "never examined their biases" flavor of bad person.
13:03 Crispy sitting like a queen while reading horror stories is iconic as hell.
I've only played call of cthulu once and the funniest thing was that we didn't take sanity damage because we all kept failing our investigation rolls.
Too dumb to go crazy. That's pretty awesome actually
That's a whole build method. High Power, Low Intelligence. Everyone in my group thinks of excuses to build their characters with that.
@@George_M_ Remember the epic tale of Old Man Henderson. He is someone every CoC Investigator should aspire to be.
Dang it I should've done that, my character started the campaign with 54 sanity and after one session she's already lost 5 sanity, PLUS THERE'S A PC STALKER THAT STALKS MY CHARACTER AND WANTS HER TO MARRY HIM (we agreed on this out of character, it's funny to roleplay my character being oblivious to the guy being a weirdo and just assuming "oh he's... a random weirdo. i'll ignore that")
I think that the most important thing about writing a villain is writing a villain that can be understood, AVATAR is actually good example we understand Zuko as a villain and are able to sympathise and understand his redemption, but we also understand Ozai and why he cannot be redeemed only stopped.
There's also Azula, who you can feel bad for and must understand she is still unfixable despite that.
@@conspiracypanda1200 Honestly, one of the most incredible things in Avatar's writing is that all of the active members of the villainous Fire Nation royal family were all so perfectly intertwined in their motivations and histories, yet perfectly capable of growing into three completely different types of villains. That's extremely hard to pull off, yet they did it so well.
Stan wants to escape from the real world where people call him out for being obsessed with SA I guess.
Honestly I have never seen an asexual spend so much time talking about CoC.
hehe, 🐓
Call of Cthulu?
@@notapplicable6985 CoC (k is silent)
Surely there's a better way to shorten Call of Ctulhu than COC(K) 😭
9:38 was not expecting the two Crispies to fall in love. Hope they do well, and don't get killed.
Among everything else Stan did, the blasphemy against Bast is unappreciated! x)
For me, a good villain needs two things: a style that clicks with the story (players included), and to make sense. Not make good calls or have good ideas. Just an internal logic. The Empire in Star Wars is REALLY clearly evil and wrong, but they think they make sense.
And the Empire is not a monolith. It is large enough to find pockets of sympathetic characters, resistances, spies, turncoats, and then the CLEARLY evil mofos that have a god complex or use force lightning arbitrarily.. or both.
And something that I think gets put by the wayside in a lot of media and discourse about Star Wars is how much the average person could see benefits under the Empire. Bureaucracy that prevented people from living decent lives under the Republic went away. It went away because the Empire exploited millions of people but it just adds internal logic to people who believed in the Empire’s cause. And I always find that really interesting
"Stan" ... has a child.
That's the true horror story, here. No Outer God and eldritch things needed. Jeebus.
Edit: I hope the sister in the final story NEVER meets "Stan."
I've never heard an asexual say so much about CoC
What kind of villains you like could be a good thing to bring up in session 0. I've never thought of it before, but if your players hate a complex or tragic villain and just want to kill faceless goons, (or vice versa, if the DM leans toward basic evil villains and the players want to engage more with drama) it's probably going to save everyone a headache to clear that up at the beginning.
I can agree with this. I side with Crispy on "villains aren't automatically bad if they're not sympathetic or deep or relatable". Some of our favorite bad guys - Ursula the Sea Witch, Bowser, even Robbie Rotten - are just mustache-twirling doofuses with a fun demeanor that we love to have in the room. But that doesn't change the fact that many people (often writer types) won't engage with the villain if they're not just as detailed and "well-written" as the rest of the cast. I may think that's a shame, but in D&D where everyone is collaborating to tell this story, it's important that everyone is on the same page.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, explict s*xual violence takes away from horror because it puts you into a place of disgust and saddness instead of terror. I feel that goes double for the kind of horror that CoC is supposed to focus on, which is cosmic and psychological horror with entities I highly doubt would care the least about "pleasures of the flesh".
For the afk story I do sort of understand leaving without a notice. Sometimes nature calls and you can't wait, or you have been waiting and there's never a good moment to call a break. When doing our online campaign, I rarely say anything when I go because I don't want to interrupt the group's flow. I quick "sorry I went to the bathroom while you were talking, did I miss anything important" usually suffices, and sometimes I just don't say anything and gather what happened from context. It's not always due to a lack of respect or lack of interest.
This is more for the DM's side of things, since it doesn't apply to Steve- If he doesn't say anything, he doesn't have the right to get angry when he misses important information. Just apologize and move on.
i've just realized that i can't remember the last time i heard about someone being arbitrarily cruel that didn't involve their god and it's ostensible wishes.
That last story is terrifying
No crispys were harmed during the making of this program (well... not physically at lease)
A rare thing
10:32 Crispy does not know how to make abbreviations
And call the cops on stan expeditiously
Thanks again for reading my story! (CoS one)
For the only reachable by boat thing from CoC. I checked and Beunos Aires didn't have any airport until 1947. Also a commerical flight would be done on what is called a flying boat since the range of piston engine aircraft meant they would frequently need to stop at prepared islands to refuel. For some context, going from San Franciso to China in the 1930s by plane meant stopping at Hawaii, Midway Atoll, Wake Island, and then Shanghai.
10:43 absolutely love Crispy’s confidence in saying CoC with a (audio) straight face. I’m too immature xD
24:40
I -
No. I suppose it’s not always a PDFfile’s fault they are the way they are.
However, suppose I was brainwashed as a child to believe human life is worthless and everyone is better off dead. It wouldn’t be my fault I thought that way, exactly. I’m still culpable if I commit murder, though!
Yeesh. Definitely A CONCERNING SISTER!
6:13 Thank for clarifying it wasn't corruption of champions. 😂
S,A, and torture are on my hard no list. If they come up in game, I'm gone.
10:35 depends on the CoC...
i want immortality. not to take over the world or anything. but to just live to see where humanity is going to.
Like DCAU Lex Luthor was talking about to Amazo.
The No Sympathy story LMAO. I know a few people who use DnD as an escape from the complexity of life, and I feel like OP had a hardcore case of that. Faced with the horrifying ordeal of NUANCE, they just had a meltdown. I hope they stuck to their villain in the end.
that cthulhu one sure is... special. i run a VTM game with a lot of the personal horror aspect and "stains on your humanity" happen multiple times a session, and the worst thing that happened to a kid so far was... being slightly grumpily asked for directions by a player character. and the morally worst thing that happened in general probably was when they scared an NPC so hard (faded-to-black) they had to leave town, to protect the masquerade :P
you can play bad people without actively reveling in being bad people yourself, that's kinda the whole point of horror.
I get a bit tired of "who wants to be immortal" ... it's a valid story... but it gets tiring when it is the only trope applied to immortality. The fun-loving immortal guy in Sandman was such a breath of fresh air.
Yeah, even when he was at his lowest, he still didn't want to give up his immortality. Then again, he had the "doesn't age" version of immortality.
I think the reason the CoC story GM hasn't run anymore games is because he's either in prison or someone complained to the Roll20 admins and they perma-banned his ass from their community and completely nuked his account.
8:42
*"Oh come on! That doesn't even have an H!"*
-Brian Griffin
It’s been a while since I’ve seen your content and LOVE the mini sketches, especially the first one about making a dark backstory 😂😁
I only started playing early this year, with a group of people I didn’t know before. But I feel so incredibly lucky. They’re an awesome bunch, there have been no red (or even orange) flags and they’ve been really supportive of a newbie, even when I realise after a session that I misused a spell or something.
I snort laughed at the "I quickly became homophobic" cut. But seriously, don't be homophobic, guys. Thats's cringe.
Edit: WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THE SISTER?!
Sounded like the sister really wanted to spite the homosexual character while denying satisfying justice. The way she did it was still stupidly hypocritical and I'd recommend finding new superior players.
That insert at 0:28 was so random but I loved it so much
Imagine getting mad because the villain is complex.
Sounded like a tragic villain either ruined a power fantasy or possibly offended someone against "self deletion" as a topic.
More like a failed attempt to be complex.
@@emberfist8347 Was complex enough to get that player whining about sympathetic villains ever existing. Being better written wouldn't have prevented the raging response.
@@emberfist8347 I feel like you're just arguing for the sake of it. That or you only like villains whose motivation is that they're evil
@@M_Alexander Nice strawman. I just dislike bad writing.
Love how the Antagonists reasoning and Goal is literally just Aatrox from league of legends
yeah i noticed that too lol
For OP of the No Sympathy story. Villains with simple motivations that aren't sympathetic are actually less like cartoons than more complex villains. Greed, Bigotry or anger are enough to drive many people do terrible things.
True, but they may not always be as fun to write or play.
Absolutely loved this episode! I’m a huge fan of CoC!
I read that the way he read Coc in the vid lol
honestly I'd be fucking worried over the kid of that CoC DM, that's rather goulish.
My god, I just can’t even with those examples. People who insist on such “humor” or extreme topics in a RPG need freaking therapy big time
I’m someone who likes to make a lot of jokes and poke fun at friends, but I’m always sure to get to know people well before doing so and to never take shots at sensitive spots.
This may be the last comment I ever leave on RUclips as I've found myself in a horrible situation, I've lost means to get to work and thus rely on Uber, it's been a struggle...but I just found out my account was hacked and I lost a lot of money, I only have enough left to get to work tomorrow and will likely lose my job the following day, crispy I just wanna say thank you so much for providing me with hours of entertainment,your a very kind and funny soul,and you've meant so much to me lately and given me something to relax with and enjoy even when dealing with hardships, I wish you the best and hope one day I can post again on your comments if Im not homeless....thanks for being a spark of light in the dark
It's been two months since you've left this comment, but I genuinely hope that things have gotten better for you; or that things will get better for you soon. I've never really been one to pray, but just in case prayers actually DO help, you'll be in my prayers tonight. Stay strong, honey. As someone's who's hit the bottom of the barrel more times than I can count, I promise you that things can get better.
They asked for call of Chtulhu and DM decided to run Kult: divinity lost. Without the skill required to run it. Or the consent checks.
For that first story, he just needs to take five looks at that "Cool motive, still murder" meme from Brooklyn 99.
If you're going to pronounce CoC as...that, then to be fair, you should also start calling DnD "Dund", and Matt Colville's company "McDamn".
D&D.
2:01 DM: I've always viewed immortality as the worst curse one can have upon oneself
Hob Gadling: Skill issue
The fact that the sister not only did THAT, but was emotionally manipulative and abusive when the other sibling tried to set a boundary about it says some REALLY fucked up things about them. Either they faced some SERIOUS trauma, or they are a TERRIBLE person. Either way, if I was OP, I'd distance myself from this sister and let them know outright just HOW fucked up what they suggested was and tell her she NEEDS to see a therapist. After that, I'd just go no contact for a while for my own mental health. I know that easier said than done, but I've done it with my own sister, and it actually helped out our relationship a ton because the next time I saw her, she was a LOT gentler with me, and generally not abusive anymore. She's been doing even better since seeing a therapist. Sometimes the only way to get a sibling to see just how much their behaviors affected you is to just go without them for a bit. It doesn't always work, but it does help YOU for sure!
I've heard a few of these stories on other channels but I really enjoy listening to both your take on them and seeing your skits around them. Keep up the good work Crispy!
someone please clip the "foop me in the a$$ or else" bit. That slaughtered me
I have been planning a similar campaign BBEG to the "no Sympathy" story the concept is just a better twist to the average lich
I'm a simple viewer.
If I see "D&D" in the title, I click "Do not recommend." Crispy, you are just about the ONLY channel who gets an exception to that, EVER, because I like you.
But when I see "RPG" in there instead of hasbro gaming...
I watch.
Nah bro after hearing the last story, op should considered cutting out her toxic sister. Something tell me that her homophobic side is legit showing what her true character is always been. Believe what they show you and leave.
5:26 One of my favorite villains in fiction is Grand Admiral Thrawn from the Star Wars Legacy EU. He's absolutely not sympathetic one bit. But what he is, is *INTERESTING.*
5:26 I see you're a man of culture
2:08 immortality is bad if and only if it’s exclusive. (Or you end up like that one guy from jojo part 2) If everyone is immortal it is no longer bad
I would bet good money that the "your villain character is terrible" guy is an anti-woke media critic. People who get unreasonably angry when stories are told in a way they don't like and doesn't specially cater to their tastes. Instead of calmly accepting that not everything that exists will be for them, they make their denial everyone else's problem.
On a side note, reading the line "normal for CoC", and not laughing must have taken will power.
I was guessing the "No Sympathy" problem player may have had a bad reaction to hearing the topic of "self deletion". Still could have handled it better than cursing out the DM while only saying it's because it wrecks a power fantasy.
You are pointing at something that isn't there. After all we don't know the whole story and knowing about bad writing the sympathic backstory was tacked on after the villain did something irredeemable.
@@emberfist8347 We don't know whether or not the villain was just a generic BBEG who had tragedy tacked on at the last minute. Feels like people assume the complaining player was disagreeing on how sympathetic the BBEG is rather than being mad there was any attempt at sympathy.
@@emberfist8347 Sure I'm making assumptions based off of observed behavior of other people who act the same way for the same reasons. But does knowing the whole story make that guy's response justifiable or acceptable? Is having a tantrum and ruining everyone else's night the appropriate response to hearing something you don't like? Sometimes the whole story is just that someone is being an asshole. Maybe that guy was the simplistic villain he was looking for all along.
I actually had similar idea as a villain for the No Sympathy story. The players are all the gallant, talk this out, save their rage for only the truly monstrous, sort of party. Well, what's the best anti-thesis for that, someone who can't be killed, can't be talked down, and most importantly, can't be saved. A piteous wreck who was the one that killed their entire civilization by making such a Faustian bargain. I even worked sympathy into their powers, binding themselves to other people so he and they share damage, he gets up after a while, they do not. Seeing this reaction, is really a bit weird. I tend to really like characters with complex motivations and non-standard approaches to good and evil. But at least I'm prepared now for how badly someone could take it.
I'm working on building up a villain that's a fallen hero. He's comvinced himself that he's still working for the greater good and could be argued to be, even if he's going about it the wrong way. I want the conflict to be between whether the ends justify the means or if he's deluding himself in pursuit of power.
I only just introduced my party to the idea of a BBEG working behind the scenes a few days ago so the payoff is a long way away
sympathetic villain - like, the player who stormed out could stay out tbh.
People say that being immortal sucks because you'll see everyone you love die and won't be able to open up to people.
As if normal human relationships tend to actually last a full lifetime and people don't move on.
I also forgot about the age from the start and really thought it's some teen bullshit and uhh... OP.... you gotta talk to your sister about it... it's easy to say to "cut randoms from your life" but with your family you can put some work in and maybe you can potentially reach her. Cause that's crazy asf, imagine a person like this around your kids, or around her own kids, that's dangerous
I'd argue for an intervention with more family, but that'd risk them turning on OP for playing homosexuals as something okay (assuming they taught sister her homophobia).
Reminds me of my own stories involving a GM that was… problematic.
Charlie runs...well good for him
No sympathy reminds me of the main villain of Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura. In that game the villain wants to end all life because existence is painful and there’s an objectively real afterlife that is free of suffering, so he wants to put the world out of its collective misery.
Which is still a terrible motivation. I mean you can't really excuse genocide.
@@emberfist8347 The pacifist option for dealing with the villain is passing a speech check to make him realize that what he wants for himself shouldn’t be imposed on everyone in Arcanum, not everyone in life is suffering and not every soul wants to stay dead.
4:12 Maybe suicidal ideation is a touchy subject for him and the anger is secondary to something else.
That's definitely a possibility, though it could have been handled better by the player.
Théoden is Eówyn's uncle. He raised her like a father, but yeah. Funny skit, though.
Also, the *what* mythos?
He runs WHAT???
A concerning sister.
So the No Sympathy villain is Salem from RWBY.
The giveaway that it's a good story: This isn't as bad as the other stories you've read... 😂
the jailer😔
Oh wow…hmmm yeah the lore keeper can just fall into the abyss now
11:20 My same reaction.
A concerning sister. 😅
The Lotus Casino was done best in the books, I think. The one from the movie wasn’t that great, and I’ve never seen the show
The book's version still holds up. Haven't read Percy Jackson since it came out, but the chapter still hits as an adult.
@@CrispysTavern bro, I own the entire PJO series of books and the HoO sequel series, it’s some pretty lit stuff. I even have a few of the Magnus Chase books, and the first one of those was pretty awesome too. The second book of that series even introduced a gender-fluid child of Loki, which is an interesting trait really, and it’s done pretty well, and also because in mythology Loki is known for shape shifting, sometimes into animals and sometimes just swapping sexes on the fly
You called the FBI ON ME!? hahahaha best.
A concerning sister.
these ppl need to b on a watchlist or in jail b4 they hurt som1 (if they havnt already)
that last story is just... what?
CoC Mythos
Not a psychologist but I’ve seen some 💩 On the last story I think the sister might be using roleplaying to “air out some trama” it’s that she’s brought grape (presumably at a young age) into her game and has continued it into adulthood. I think the op might want to suggest therapy to his sister to see if there’s something to why she has to have these plot hooks. I’m wondering if the character she’s using is an actual person.
a concerning sister
I'm honestly pretty shocked by this episode. The mayor thing is super fucked up.
A concerning sister...
warcraft 3 i had sympathy for sylvanas maybe even as far as about wrath sylvanaas post wrath that sympathy dries up and its completely gone when she kills Saurfang the Elder
Yeah, it's genuinely disturbing what heinous shit people will defend. Many years ago, it came to light that long-time friend of mine had been perpetrating inappropriate acts on the 5-year-old daughter of a mutual friend. His "defence" for this was that she (the *5-year-old* girl) had "psychically invaded" his mind and "forced him to do it" (I shit you not, that's legit what that freak claimed).
Of course, that was the end of the friendship so far as I was concerned. What he had done was unforgivable - in my opinion, anyway. Unfortunately, my opinion was not shared by everyone...
My first ex-wife berated me for not forgiving him, called _me_ a *_monster_* for not forgiving him for doing that to a 5-year-old child... after all, *_God_* forgives him, so therefore I'm the evil one for not forgiving him. P3dophilia? Oh, that's forgivable. Not forgiving p3dophiles? Nah, that makes you a fucking monster!
I do not associate with that ex-wife, either. My life is vastly improved by the loss of both of them.
How to deal with an immortal villain who wants to die:
Step one: defeat the villain.
Step two: chop the villain into tiny pieces.
Step 3: Place the villain pieces in Leomund's Secret Chest.
Step four: Send the chest to the ethereal plane.
Step five: Destroy the recall chest.
Step six: Laugh maniacally, as the still immortal , villain is trapped (in pieces) in a chest that is irretrievably lost in the multiverse.
Sympathetic villain story - It sounds like all but one of your players were enjoying the game just fine. If he hadn't thrown a fit, I'd have just said you two have different wants from a game, but with him flipping out like that, he has a lot more wrong than just having different taste in stories. Write games that you find interesting and enjoy it with the rest of your players.
CoC. Yikes. I've played in a few games online now and every single one discusses everyone's comfort levels with adult content during session zero. (I've also yet to see ANY game that allows explicit adult content... pretty much every game I'm in is like, romance is fine, but fade to black please.) It's pretty gross for someone to start going into that kind of content without having discussed it beforehand with the players. Major yikes.
BASED PLAYER
Just so you know, Argentina had commercial flights since 1928, but flights at that time were extremely expensive no matter where you lived. Think of private jets kind of expensive.
A CONCERNING SISTER ....