I recall watching a video where a US soldier stated one of his favorite things about AK's was the fact he could take a mag off the gun a beat some one to death with it.
youre not joking, russian cigarettes were made in 7.62 mil so the machinery could be converted over to making ammunition if need be, heck even their car factorys were designed to be easily convertible to making APCs
@@plague46 well since the russian "zaslon" special forces use 7.62x39 drum mags to this day - they seem to be very effective. I'd guess the reliability issues stem from the fact that most american import drums are old, have been used for ages thus having weak springs. That's the same reason people call Luger P08 mags trash. They are not trash - the springs are just old.
@@Oberkommando Hmm. Interesting. Oddly similar to why American soldiers have issues with their M16/M4 rifles. Fragile mags plus old springs and worn out parts. If the magazine isn't 100%, you're always gonna have problems.
Having spent 7 years in my life as a gardener, you come to realize how absolutely horrible a all-steel tool is to use without some kind of wood or plastic/rubber covering.
Silly you got my comment completely backwards. I was pointing out that they would be nicer to your hands than metal in cool weather. I've found the same thing as a photographer. My aluminum tripod is murder in cold weather. Which is why I added foam sleeves to the legs.
I remember as a child back in the early seventies looking at a color cover photograph on an Italian magazine of an African (probably Ethiopian or Sudanese) woman holding an AK rifle equiped with a bakelite magazine as a flie covered child was next to her grabbing her robe. Back then I was totally in the dark in regards to guns and I wondered for years what that orange mag was made of or why it was painted orange...
I've had a similar experience, and eventually came to the conclusion that these were regular magazines wrapped in packing tape... Funny to think about it now
Your generic eastern euro mag looks Romanian. It has the back rib so it's not Chinese, two tack welds at the front locking lugs is usually the giveaway. East German mags are typically finer quality than that and have a fairly rich bluing. Yugo mags are easy to identify by looking at the follower, which will have a little lobe extension to lock the bolt to the rear after firing. Romanian mags also have a number of spot welds on the back rib that are similar to what you've got. The dead giveaway is usually arsenals would stamp the ribs on the back of the mags for other manufacturers.
Probably someone dyed them, I've heard and read about some experimental colored bakelite mags from Russia but I don't think they were ever manufactured in any large numbers, if you're seeing them in the USA they're probably fake.
@@mrguiltyfool Chinese ones are not hard to find (usually are flat-backs), but there is a specific type that is wholly constructed of stamped parts, nothing is milled, which are really interesting. I have one of these that came from Yugoslavia.
The stamped magazines are the ones I also used when I served. They were a massive pain in the ass, because they were all quite beat-up and old, and most of them were bent, hence the follower would remain stuck in inward indentations. We had like a template that you would put the magazine on (after taking off it;s butt plate) butt-first, and then with a rubber hammer we would constantly try to fix them, but once you dropped one down, most probably it needed hammering again. All in all - pretty mad mags....bad memories.
@Mario Jurjević I'm Australian, so unless I e s c a p e, I'll probably never even fire one, though statistically and aesthetically the m70 seems like a better made weapon
Just in addition... Smaller size of 5.45 cartridge is also convenient for "first-out" ammo storage - boxes actually contain 15-rnd clips that superseded 10-rnd clips for 7.62 cartridges (the very same ones that go into SKS carbine). That's how RPK74 ended up with a 45-round magazine - not 40 nor 50... If you'd take a close look at Soviet-made Tactical Chest Rig Magazine Carrier Vest, besides four bigger mag pouches there are two smaller pockets. These are meant for ten clips, holding the other half of rifleman's ammo. The smallest pouch is for clip-to-magazine adaptor, which comes standard with a mag set.
I love how they colored the mags to be like the wood stock on the guns. Also, only Ian will go into depth over things like gun magazines, you are truly a well-informed and asset to gun history and studies.
Suspect an added bonus to the plastic mags is if it did get enough pressure to be damaged it'd just snap and be obviously broken instead of bending and then maybe feeding.
I wonder if the slab side magazines could actoally save your life id you had them in a two magazine pouch on your body. Thats 4mm of steel + the ammunition in them.
@@davidreinhart373 random info but since you replied and you seem to have interest, I'll mention...I live in Ukraine (a small city southwest of Kyiv, though my family is from Ternopil). A lot of AKMs in use here. New production but old 7.62 style. And you see all the mag types, except the slab ones, far as I can remember. So at least two gun shop owners tell me, what everyone wants is a Soviet (Radyanski, in ukrainian) AK. Should have asked why but yeah. I know inrangeTV did their mud test and all, but in the trenches/crappy conditions , apparently some of the same reliability problems with ARs that American veterans mentioned since Vietnam (then keep getting told they are wrong by RUclips) surface again. Also if you can get AP ammo for your AK (I'm assuming you're American and maybe that's why you're interested...you can buy them:) , it really works. I've seen results...not that tungsten cored 556 probably couldn't do the same thing, just we aren't given any whereas we do get tungsten 5.45. and when I say works, I mean on everything from crude steel plates to (based on visual inspection) ceramic.
I bought a Romak 5.45x39 AK variant back in 1998 and ordered 8 of the 30 round bakelite mags for it from Classic Arms. I am so glad I did! That weapon is a bullet hose and the mags made it very fun. I have since found a couple of the 45 round bakelite mags for it (featured in this video) and I may order a couple more. The "waffle" mags are only found on gunbroker now and order a premium. More are expected to come into the country. Distributors do have the "slab sided" mags, I may order some here in a moment. Ian, thanks again for a great video.
I like the Bakes because they're really smooth and flat. There is a video somewhere of some troop using a Bake to open a bottle, and then dine off of the surface of the mag.
IN Bulgaria we have all of the types. I have use only the steal and both Bakelite as well as 40 rounds mag for RPK. The first type and the aluminum I only see on ceremonial rifles.
I like that in your videos when you don't know some obscure fact you identify it and make it know. Professional grade videos that feel like a conversation I'd want to have.
Hello Gun Jesus My Dad is Gun Maori from New Zealand. He first started watching your videos to see if he could catch you out with misinformation. As yet he has not been able to so doesn't bother anymore, hence last night's comment. He add's 'If I didn't look like a Mexican I'd immigrate to gun heaven.' (Arizona) Who Dares Wins.
Tama Hawkins - we here in Arizona accept and love all legality immigrated or visiting Mexicans. We even have a bit of Australians and kiwis living here. I use to work with a few at the county hospital.
New Zealand has fairly good gun laws. You can even own full autos. Don't know about new ones though, you can only own the ones made before 1986 in the US though.
Well it does look exactly like Bakelite and from what people who've handled em have said it even feels like Bakelite (the combination of texture, heat transfer, and way it gives is very much like Bakelite) so the error isn't unjustified.
Fiberglass! Now we’re talking the 60s and real polymers: vinyl, nylon, dacron, acetates. A whole new world and they haven’t even substituted any hydrogens with chlorides and fluorides, yet!
So if we're talking the AKM, that means Soviets adopted these around 1965-1970, which would mean they adopted polymer mags before pretty much anyone else. That's pretty far forward thinking on their part. And it does make sense, since all Russian made mags and drums are polymer, and are considered the best to own in the Eastern Bloc.
TheTaconator123 - Wanting an AK is a rational thought. Wanting anything made out of Bakelite? No. Google it. Talk to owners who value function over nostalgia. Bakelite meant it was time to develop polymers and stop trying to perfect plastic. Diallyl Phthalate (DAP) replaced Bakelite on the newly introduced home telephones.
@@caseyjoanz Not a single mag for an AK where made out of bakelite in the USSR/Russia. Steel, aluminum, non dyed or dyed fibre-reinforced polymer (FRP) only.
Deliberate or not, it is a result of poorly mixed polymer ingredients. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bakelite_color_chart_1924_Gifts_to_Treasure_Embed_Art_Company_Jewel_only.tif en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite#Phenolic_sheeten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol_formaldehyde_resin
Thanks for clarifying! I actually used to think that the magazines were encased in thin sheets of wood because it fits the AK color pattern. It's just that they even have the typical wood patterns.
I wondered too if it was accident or chance. But I like the 7's veneer explanation best iatsd! Thanks for the info all of you. NB - Bakelite does not have an R in it ;-)
Thank you. This is all the information about AK mags i needed to know. I will likely never own or use an AK or any other gun. But it was an nteresting and informative watch.
My father who had mandatory military training in he hungarian army said, that the bakelite magazines were 'throwable' but they had to keep the steel magazines to use them.
Seeing a lot of comments about how polymer/bakelite might feel better in the winter, and counter-arguments saying that soldiers wear gloves... Gloves are a disposable item - you wear them every day, the weather doesn't matter. And so the get worn, and they rip open. Touching cold steel through a worn glove is not nice. Neither is handling that steel when you come indoors, and take off your gloves. The metal stays cold for some time. You could replace your gloves, and you could wear thicker ones for the winter, and you could be more careful, but you won't be, not all the time. There are other reasons for adopting a plastic mag, as Ian said, but not having steel on your skin in the winter is a nice plus. Now it would be nice if you could wear thick leather gloves all the time, but that's not realistic since you need to operate the gun. All this comes from experience - a Finnish Jaeger here.
East germany did also use bakelite mags for 5.45x39 aks. But we used different ak types at the same time. Besides the AK47, we also had the KM-72, the east german successor to the AKM in service. It was chambered in 7,62x39. So, on pictures from the early 80s you see both mag types, because different calibers were in use. But later, in the late 80s, only the border guards used the KMS-72. All other Units were equipped with AK-74N, AkS-74 and AKS-74NK (The east german PDW).
Another advantage that the plastic bodied magazine has over a metal one is when you dink your magazines against something hard. If you have a metal magazine, you can slightly dent it so that it doesn't really like to feed that well but still look kind of working, causing unforeseen jams during battle. In the other hand the plastic magazine either basically always works in that regard or it is completely obliterated.
The Russians no doubt learned a thing or two when fielding the SVT with it's.... problematic magazines. I have a feeling that played into the robustness of the first AK mag.
Patrick McCann I believe the complaints come from wartime reports, not civilian complaints (since no civie would ever subject their gun to the same torture). Anyway, it was about bad feedlips and they were too easy to dent/damage, resulting in feed issues. That's probably why nobody today has issue with them, because all of the surviving original examples are good and treated well
I believe Bakelite mags are actually Bakelite (or similar thermosetting plastic) with glass fiber reinforcing. They pass most Bakelite tests such as simichrome and if you heat them a little by rubbing or warm water you smell a little formaldehyde.
pay attention to the lugs, there are some out there especially the all polymer Bulgarian 40 rounders where the front lug of the magazine goes all the way across and needs to have the edges trimmed to look like these
You're right. These polymer mags would've been in trials in 1967 and adopted in 1969, for the AKM, which would place them REALLY far ahead of the curve.
In Syria, we still and have always been using slab sides. I have never seen polymer mags except in soviet movies about Afghan campaigns. It’s funny to think about it just now. We are fighting amongst ourselves with weapons made in the 1960s and 50s.
Oh man. Going into AK mag variants is a whole can of worms. So many cool different ones out there to collect. I've mostly stuck with AK74 mags and even then there are so many different variants. My prized mag would be my black polymer 50 round quadstack mag for the 74.
There's just something charming about the colored bakelite mags. A little tacky, a little retro, but charming. Unfortunately, my 5.56 Arsenal Inc. doesn't have the option of using them.
love those steel 30 rnd tantal mags for the 5.45 . kinda have good service from promags 40 rd plastic waffles for the 545 also.. they have two magazine follower lips molded into them where you can cut down a 40 to a 30 and even a 20 ish rnd mag just by cutting just below the edge.. 40 rnd mags are a Lil tall for the range and the bench or prone. . dirt cheap and reliable. the bakelite 45s are just too nice to beat on so I try to limit the use.
In the finnish military we were frying sausages on top of the RK mag springs 😂 those are also plastic mags but they have an enforcing pattern like those metal ones.
Could you do a video on the AN-94? Maybe its not forgotten but its a very interesting gun, and maybe i would actually understand how it works if you explained it haha
Great video! From having owned a number of 7.62 AKs, there are a surprising number of 7.62 AK magazine variants out there. There's another kind not touched on here: Chinese. They're just like the Eastern European, but with no rib on the spine (flat back), so a little easier on the thumb. They also seem to have slightly better fit and finish.
Bakelite is Fenal and formaldehyde. You need to add other chemicals to make this violent chemical reaction stable, put it in a bakelizer, and then the finish product is a "Glass Resin" polymer.
Cool video and very informative. One minor thing though, when discussing the differences in weight between items such as this, as much as you did, it would be handy and interesting if you had a digital scale to illustrate the difference in weight between the different magazines. It would helps make it more tangible for we the viewers versus the very subjective terms used in the video. It is a minor point and suggestion. Love the channel and you make amazing videos. Keep up the great work. :)
Would love to see a video on the AEK-971 or the AK-12 if you ever get the chance. Not exactly forgotten because of video games it would be really cool to see them
from zenitco: "The (former KGB) border guards of the then Soviet Union, now Russian Federation, are rewarded special green-furniture AKM's and AK-74's for exceptional service". basically borderguard ak furniture.
@@DennyCigano Soviet mags are better. A synthetic material AK mag that doesn't have steel locking lugs and reinforced feed lips means it's sub-par. The Bulgarian circle 10 mags are pretty much the gold standard for what modern AK mags should look like. I believe they even have steel re-enforcing strips that run down the front (possibly back) of the mags as well. At a bare minimum, the locking lugs and feed lips need steel in them, otherwise, one good wack on something and the plastic is going to break. Polymer rock and lock AK mags are not as easy to make as AR mags.
Great Video Ian!.. I have One of Those Exact Same Heavy Duty Ribbed Mags! the 0 stamp identified it! mine is Polish & Came a with my C11 Polish Parts kit Akms! Great Gun! Great Mag!.. Thanks For The info! Have a Great Day & God Bless You Brother!.
Fun fact the slab mags sides are the same thickness (1mm) as the standard stamped AK receiver
For those extra special field repairs
wild50gunner That's weirdly satisfying
@Rochyan Not just field repairs when you run out of ammo you can use those magazines as a makeshift baton.
So basically,the steel slab one stops a 9mm.Nice...lol
Grassmasks greatest champion ouch..
I recall watching a video where a US soldier stated one of his favorite things about AK's was the fact he could take a mag off the gun a beat some one to death with it.
The image of Polenar Tactical's Manca beating the mannequin with one instantly pops out in my brain, lol
Tape a grenade to it, boom, stielhandgrenada
They are heavy as hell with rounds on them so I believe it.
Knowing Russians it was thick steel at first so the spare ones could be later converted into tanks.
Infernal969 Funny (I'm Russian)
magazines so strong they were added to the armor on tanks
youre not joking, russian cigarettes were made in 7.62 mil so the machinery could be converted over to making ammunition if need be, heck even their car factorys were designed to be easily convertible to making APCs
same legend was about 7.62 macaroni pasta
Cigarettes, yeah. The same rumor goes about the Soviet pasta. That's bullshit.
I'd be very interested in seeing another video on drum magazines.
Indeed
You mean jamazines.
@@plague46 IZ WONDERFUL COMMUNIST INVENTION, DO NOT QUESTION COMRADE.
@@plague46 well since the russian "zaslon" special forces use 7.62x39 drum mags to this day - they seem to be very effective.
I'd guess the reliability issues stem from the fact that most american import drums are old, have been used for ages thus having weak springs.
That's the same reason people call Luger P08 mags trash. They are not trash - the springs are just old.
@@Oberkommando Hmm. Interesting. Oddly similar to why American soldiers have issues with their M16/M4 rifles. Fragile mags plus old springs and worn out parts. If the magazine isn't 100%, you're always gonna have problems.
I'd imagine the polymer mags would be nicer to handle in harsh winter conditions as well.
Scott Verge they would become a little brittle in extreme cold but they would not freeze to your hands lol
Having spent 7 years in my life as a gardener, you come to realize how absolutely horrible a all-steel tool is to use without some kind of wood or plastic/rubber covering.
Silly you got my comment completely backwards.
I was pointing out that they would be nicer to your hands than metal in cool weather.
I've found the same thing as a photographer. My aluminum tripod is murder in cold weather. Which is why I added foam sleeves to the legs.
LazyLife IFreak see any combat?
dranomilkshake
Nope thou I have worked under some of the same conditions at least weather-wise. Cold, wet hands on all-metal rake is god awful.
I remember as a child back in the early seventies looking at a color cover photograph on an Italian magazine of an African (probably Ethiopian or Sudanese) woman holding an AK rifle equiped with a bakelite magazine as a flie covered child was next to her grabbing her robe. Back then I was totally in the dark in regards to guns and I wondered for years what that orange mag was made of or why it was painted orange...
I've had a similar experience, and eventually came to the conclusion that these were regular magazines wrapped in packing tape... Funny to think about it now
i always tought they were made of copper
Painted orange because of Health and Safety Regulations. xD
When I was a noob I was convinced that they paint magazines orange to make them easier to find when dropped on the ground :P
i know but i just couldn't imagine a magazine not made out of some kind of metal. :D
Wake up to take a piss and now I'm forced to watch this. God damnit Ian
Just don't check your phone when you take a piss at night, go right to the potty and then go right back to bed.
TMI!
why not do both at once?
+John Floyd congrats
John Floyd I hope I'm as high speed as you one day
Your generic eastern euro mag looks Romanian. It has the back rib so it's not Chinese, two tack welds at the front locking lugs is usually the giveaway. East German mags are typically finer quality than that and have a fairly rich bluing. Yugo mags are easy to identify by looking at the follower, which will have a little lobe extension to lock the bolt to the rear after firing. Romanian mags also have a number of spot welds on the back rib that are similar to what you've got. The dead giveaway is usually arsenals would stamp the ribs on the back of the mags for other manufacturers.
In publication no, but I know AK mags, I've collected them for years and I know what I buy when I buy it.
I'm pretty good with Chinese, and I know the Yugo mags, but the others are too similar for me (for now).
Will Moon what do you think of the green Bakelite mags that we're going round recently? Scam or legit?
Probably someone dyed them, I've heard and read about some experimental colored bakelite mags from Russia but I don't think they were ever manufactured in any large numbers, if you're seeing them in the USA they're probably fake.
Will Moon I have couple Chinese mags with rib back and matte finish. Can tell Chinese from the triangle 66 mark. Very interesting pieces.
All that line up need is the green bakelite magazine.
Do you have a Chinese all-stamped or Bosnian two-rib/Fleur-de-lis?
@@davidokeif8304 i think you can easily found chinese ones in Canada
@@mrguiltyfool Chinese ones are not hard to find (usually are flat-backs), but there is a specific type that is wholly constructed of stamped parts, nothing is milled, which are really interesting. I have one of these that came from Yugoslavia.
Green magz are only for FSB border guard vets.
PS. There were never any magazine made of a bakelite in the USSR/Russia.
The stamped magazines are the ones I also used when I served. They were a massive pain in the ass, because they were all quite beat-up and old, and most of them were bent, hence the follower would remain stuck in inward indentations. We had like a template that you would put the magazine on (after taking off it;s butt plate) butt-first, and then with a rubber hammer we would constantly try to fix them, but once you dropped one down, most probably it needed hammering again. All in all - pretty mad mags....bad memories.
waffles, slabs of meat and baked goods.....DAMMIT IAN now I'm hungry!
DeanmC261993 Ribbs should also be included in the title of this video.
DeanmC261993 and they're all bananas...
I took a drink every time you said "robust"...now Im hammered!
It must've been a historical 1st ,when the Soviet military said " Yup those slab sided Magazines are too robust and durable" !
Funny, I remember arguing about who gets to carry the Bakelite mags. When you have to carry 4 of them for long periods of time the difference is huge.
I'm from Russia, Izhevsk, and it's cool and weird in some way to see magazines from Izhevsk in USA.
I like seeing comments like this.They make the internet cooler. Zdravstvuyte from Vermont,USA.
When gun Jesus gets kicked out of the auction house so he has to go to a gun store and review gun magazines.
The second magazine is for a Yugoslav zastava M-70.
Let's all agree it's for a Bulgarian Zastava ;)
@Mario Jurjević I'm Australian, so unless I e s c a p e, I'll probably never even fire one, though statistically and aesthetically the m70 seems like a better made weapon
@@user_name_redacted escape to Texas
1500 likes and 0 dislikes. A very informing video as always. Thank Ian
Now it's 27 dislikes
@@freshmemeington4128 now it's 34 to over 8k likes^^
Now its no dislikes again
@@legil2954 lololol
Just in addition... Smaller size of 5.45 cartridge is also convenient for "first-out" ammo storage - boxes actually contain 15-rnd clips that superseded 10-rnd clips for 7.62 cartridges (the very same ones that go into SKS carbine). That's how RPK74 ended up with a 45-round magazine - not 40 nor 50... If you'd take a close look at Soviet-made Tactical Chest Rig Magazine Carrier Vest, besides four bigger mag pouches there are two smaller pockets. These are meant for ten clips, holding the other half of rifleman's ammo. The smallest pouch is for clip-to-magazine adaptor, which comes standard with a mag set.
I love how they colored the mags to be like the wood stock on the guns. Also, only Ian will go into depth over things like gun magazines, you are truly a well-informed and asset to gun history and studies.
J
Thanks Ian. I did not know the many variations. Now I can buy a plastic one and not worry.
watch out for some of the black plastic mags - especially pro mags
Incredible information on the Bakelite! Finally, I understand why it not only costs more but why it even exists.
Suspect an added bonus to the plastic mags is if it did get enough pressure to be damaged it'd just snap and be obviously broken instead of bending and then maybe feeding.
Handling mags in cold weather is also a consideration. Freeze your fingertips on metal ones
If the weather is that cold then you'd wear gloves
@@theonethatfliesfiller4098 , or you could pee on your hands and warm them up, or chuck them into freshly sliced dog - simples !
I wonder if the slab side magazines could actoally save your life id you had them in a two magazine pouch on your body. Thats 4mm of steel + the ammunition in them.
that's a solid chunk of metal. i bet it'd stop something like a .45.
A bit late, but allegedly the North Vietnamese were aware of this and their chest rigs were considered to give some crude protection that way.
@@michaelwarenycia7588 Interesting
@@davidreinhart373 random info but since you replied and you seem to have interest, I'll mention...I live in Ukraine (a small city southwest of Kyiv, though my family is from Ternopil). A lot of AKMs in use here. New production but old 7.62 style. And you see all the mag types, except the slab ones, far as I can remember. So at least two gun shop owners tell me, what everyone wants is a Soviet (Radyanski, in ukrainian) AK. Should have asked why but yeah. I know inrangeTV did their mud test and all, but in the trenches/crappy conditions , apparently some of the same reliability problems with ARs that American veterans mentioned since Vietnam (then keep getting told they are wrong by RUclips) surface again. Also if you can get AP ammo for your AK (I'm assuming you're American and maybe that's why you're interested...you can buy them:) , it really works. I've seen results...not that tungsten cored 556 probably couldn't do the same thing, just we aren't given any whereas we do get tungsten 5.45. and when I say works, I mean on everything from crude steel plates to (based on visual inspection) ceramic.
If its covered in cosmoline you know its good
8:34 is that a shoe?
That's the armrest of my chair.
hahaha
Whitefang8128 😂
Electric Avenue shoe.
Funny thing, as a kid watching VHS movies in the 90s like Goldeneye, I thought they were made of wood (or at least had a wood covering).
Generic Eastern European AK Magazine(TM): _Ribbed for her pleasure_
Stop. Cease. Halt.
Как и всегда, великолепный эпизод! Спасибо!
Indeed
For sure sir
I bought a Romak 5.45x39 AK variant back in 1998 and ordered 8 of the 30 round bakelite mags for it from Classic Arms. I am so glad I did! That weapon is a bullet hose and the mags made it very fun. I have since found a couple of the 45 round bakelite mags for it (featured in this video) and I may order a couple more.
The "waffle" mags are only found on gunbroker now and order a premium. More are expected to come into the country. Distributors do have the "slab sided" mags, I may order some here in a moment.
Ian, thanks again for a great video.
They need to have a TV series "to catch a thumbs-downer" I want to know what these people look like.
Great video as always Ian, you the man :)
I ordered a flat bottom NOS Tula Bakelite and I can’t wait for it to come in.
I like the Bakes because they're really smooth and flat. There is a video somewhere of some troop using a Bake to open a bottle, and then dine off of the surface of the mag.
IN Bulgaria we have all of the types. I have use only the steal and both Bakelite as well as 40 rounds mag for RPK.
The first type and the aluminum I only see on ceremonial rifles.
First types are rare. Aluminum are too fragile.
cherniqhs болгарин,ты по-русски понимаешь ?
@@Nick_Dobru I understand a lot , can read a bit but unfortunately can't speak it
cherniqhs that’s cool, and I’m also can read in Bulgarian
cherniqhs do you have an ak rifle ?
I love the look of the bakelite magazines. I need to hunt some down.
-Jen
I like that in your videos when you don't know some obscure fact you identify it and make it know. Professional grade videos that feel like a conversation I'd want to have.
Hello Gun Jesus
My Dad is Gun Maori from New Zealand. He first started watching your videos to see if he could catch you out with misinformation.
As yet he has not been able to so doesn't bother anymore, hence last night's comment. He add's 'If I didn't look like a Mexican I'd immigrate to gun heaven.' (Arizona)
Who Dares Wins.
Tama Hawkins - we here in Arizona accept and love all legality immigrated or visiting Mexicans. We even have a bit of Australians and kiwis living here. I use to work with a few at the county hospital.
BrokenRRT thanks for clearing that up, so can we imigrate there. gun laws in NZ suck
Try living under Australia's gun laws then tell me how bad new Zealand's are.
karlrobbers That is true, you guys have it pretty bad compared to us
New Zealand has fairly good gun laws. You can even own full autos. Don't know about new ones though, you can only own the ones made before 1986 in the US though.
More magazine history please Ian.
Thank you. So many guys say "bakelite" and think they're actually made of that.
Well it does look exactly like Bakelite and from what people who've handled em have said it even feels like Bakelite (the combination of texture, heat transfer, and way it gives is very much like Bakelite) so the error isn't unjustified.
@@D8W2P4 Real old Bakelite has much darker color and has no fiberglass in it.
Fiberglass! Now we’re talking the 60s and real polymers: vinyl, nylon, dacron, acetates. A whole new world and they haven’t even substituted any hydrogens with chlorides and fluorides, yet!
Индекс ГРАУ магазинов Автомата Калашникова:
6Л10 - магазин для автоматов 6П1, 6П4 (соответственно АКМ, АКМС)
6Л18 - магазин для пулеметов 6П18, 6П19, 6П39 (45 патронов, изготовлен из материала АГ-4) (соответственно РПК74, РПКС74, РПК74М)
6Л20 - магазин для автоматов 6П20, 6П21, 6П26, 6П33 (30 патронов, изготовлен из материала АГ-4) (соответственно АК74, АКС74, АКС74У, АН-94)
6Л23 - магазин для автоматов 6П20, 6П21, 6П26, 6П33 (30 патронов, изготовлен из материала ПС6) (соответственно АК74, АКС74, АКС74У, АН-94)
6Л26 - магазин для пулеметов 6П18, 6П19, 6П39 (45 патронов, изготовлен из материала ПС6) (соответственно РПК74, РПКС74, РПК74М)
6Л29 - магазин для автоматов 6П43, 6П44 (30 патронов) (соответственно АК101, АК102)
6Л31 - магазин для автоматов 6П20, 6П21, 6П26 (60 патронов) (соответственно АК74, АКС74, АКС74У)
6Л33 - магазин для пулемета 6П8М (соответственно РПКМ (РПК-203))
ГОСТ АГ-4 - материал прессовочный на основе модифицированной фенолоформальдегидной смолы (бакелит/карболит) в качестве связующего и стеклянных нитей в качестве наполнителя.
ГОСТ ПС6 - материал прессовочный на основе полиамидных пластических масс в качестве связующего и стеклянных нитей в качестве наполнителя.
lik-o-dil-es.blogspot.com/2018/10/vidy-magazinov-dlya-avtomata-kalashnikova.html
www.ag-4v.ru/ag-4v/character/
So if we're talking the AKM, that means Soviets adopted these around 1965-1970, which would mean they adopted polymer mags before pretty much anyone else. That's pretty far forward thinking on their part. And it does make sense, since all Russian made mags and drums are polymer, and are considered the best to own in the Eastern Bloc.
I just watched this now i want ak mags i don't even own an ak Dammit Ian
TheTaconator123 - Wanting an AK is a rational thought. Wanting anything made out of Bakelite? No. Google it. Talk to owners who value function over nostalgia. Bakelite meant it was time to develop polymers and stop trying to perfect plastic.
Diallyl Phthalate (DAP) replaced Bakelite on the newly introduced home telephones.
Do you own a AK now?
@@caseyjoanz Not a single mag for an AK where made out of bakelite in the USSR/Russia. Steel, aluminum, non dyed or dyed fibre-reinforced polymer (FRP) only.
i'm 14 and i've only held a gun once
I wondered about the orange mags Now I know
Thanls Ian. Your knowledge and articulation are spot on, as always.
So is there a reason why these bakelite magazines look like wood?
_A E S T H E T I C_
Deliberate or not, it is a result of poorly mixed polymer ingredients.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bakelite_color_chart_1924_Gifts_to_Treasure_Embed_Art_Company_Jewel_only.tif
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite#Phenolic_sheeten.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakelite
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol_formaldehyde_resin
iatsd,
pray tell the grades of plastic used.
Thanks for clarifying! I actually used to think that the magazines were encased in thin sheets of wood because it fits the AK color pattern. It's just that they even have the typical wood patterns.
I wondered too if it was accident or chance. But I like the 7's veneer explanation best iatsd! Thanks for the info all of you. NB - Bakelite does not have an R in it ;-)
Thank you. This is all the information about AK mags i needed to know. I will likely never own or use an AK or any other gun. But it was an nteresting and informative watch.
AK mags are what sparked my interest with firearm history and started my collection.
So you just collect and don't fire with them?
My father who had mandatory military training in he hungarian army said, that the bakelite magazines were 'throwable' but they had to keep the steel magazines to use them.
Seeing a lot of comments about how polymer/bakelite might feel better in the winter, and counter-arguments saying that soldiers wear gloves...
Gloves are a disposable item - you wear them every day, the weather doesn't matter. And so the get worn, and they rip open. Touching cold steel through a worn glove is not nice. Neither is handling that steel when you come indoors, and take off your gloves. The metal stays cold for some time. You could replace your gloves, and you could wear thicker ones for the winter, and you could be more careful, but you won't be, not all the time. There are other reasons for adopting a plastic mag, as Ian said, but not having steel on your skin in the winter is a nice plus. Now it would be nice if you could wear thick leather gloves all the time, but that's not realistic since you need to operate the gun.
All this comes from experience - a Finnish Jaeger here.
i loved this video and would like to see a similar video with AR mags if that's at all possible.
Thanks Ian.
LGR would go nuts about the wood grain like pattern on that AK-74 mag.
East germany did also use bakelite mags for 5.45x39 aks. But we used different ak types at the same time. Besides the AK47, we also had the KM-72, the east german successor to the AKM in service. It was chambered in 7,62x39. So, on pictures from the early 80s you see both mag types, because different calibers were in use. But later, in the late 80s, only the border guards used the KMS-72. All other Units were equipped with AK-74N, AkS-74 and AKS-74NK (The east german PDW).
"You see comrade, you must make sure that your enemies are well fed with breakfast if you are to win a war".
Another advantage that the plastic bodied magazine has over a metal one is when you dink your magazines against something hard.
If you have a metal magazine, you can slightly dent it so that it doesn't really like to feed that well but still look kind of working, causing unforeseen jams during battle.
In the other hand the plastic magazine either basically always works in that regard or it is completely obliterated.
Absolutely fascinating.
The Russians no doubt learned a thing or two when fielding the SVT with it's.... problematic magazines. I have a feeling that played into the robustness of the first AK mag.
TheGoldenCaulk probably, and the STG-44 mags gave a lot of inspiration aswell.
What's wrong with SVT magazines?
Patrick McCann They're not all that strong or reliable. Granted, the reproductions are even worse.
What really goes wrong on them? This is the first I've ever heard someone complain about them.
Patrick McCann I believe the complaints come from wartime reports, not civilian complaints (since no civie would ever subject their gun to the same torture). Anyway, it was about bad feedlips and they were too easy to dent/damage, resulting in feed issues.
That's probably why nobody today has issue with them, because all of the surviving original examples are good and treated well
I believe Bakelite mags are actually Bakelite (or similar thermosetting plastic) with glass fiber reinforcing. They pass most Bakelite tests such as simichrome and if you heat them a little by rubbing or warm water you smell a little formaldehyde.
Awesome video! Can you please do a similar video about all the different G3 magazines?
i have 3 of the 40 round bakelite mags in my collection. :) had four but i gave one to a friend a few years back
Love me some bakelite mags on a Krink!
0:47 for -6.5 seconds I thought you said slav side magazines
pay attention to the lugs, there are some out there especially the all polymer Bulgarian 40 rounders where the front lug of the magazine goes all the way across and needs to have the edges trimmed to look like these
Fantastic video. Thanks for the education 👍
pretty advanced magazines
You're right. These polymer mags would've been in trials in 1967 and adopted in 1969, for the AKM, which would place them REALLY far ahead of the curve.
Plum mags have the added capability to make one cream their pants.
When I was a kid I thought that these Bakelite magazines were made of wood.
In Syria, we still and have always been using slab sides. I have never seen polymer mags except in soviet movies about Afghan campaigns. It’s funny to think about it just now. We are fighting amongst ourselves with weapons made in the 1960s and 50s.
I always wanted to know what the differences between AK mags were about, thanks for making a vid about it
I find the Chinese all stamped AK mag to be one of the most interesting. Got one about eleven years ago when one place online was selling bulk packs.
Over a thousand likes without any dislikes? AK magazines must be popular!
Oh, we finally got the 1 mongoloid that has to thumbs down any video!
Toby Wood I mean AK mags are pretty sweet.
cool, finns also used those steel mags for rk-62 quite some time. Nowdays we use plastic ones insted.
Bakalites are hitting the market now still but at 150 a mag
Oh man. Going into AK mag variants is a whole can of worms. So many cool different ones out there to collect. I've mostly stuck with AK74 mags and even then there are so many different variants. My prized mag would be my black polymer 50 round quadstack mag for the 74.
There's just something charming about the colored bakelite mags. A little tacky, a little retro, but charming. Unfortunately, my 5.56 Arsenal Inc. doesn't have the option of using them.
love those steel 30 rnd tantal mags for the 5.45 . kinda have good service from promags 40 rd plastic waffles for the 545 also.. they have two magazine follower lips molded into them where you can cut down a 40 to a 30 and even a 20 ish rnd mag just by cutting just below the edge.. 40 rnd mags are a Lil tall for the range and the bench or prone. . dirt cheap and reliable. the bakelite 45s are just too nice to beat on so I try to limit the use.
In the finnish military we were frying sausages on top of the RK mag springs 😂 those are also plastic mags but they have an enforcing pattern like those metal ones.
Could you do a video on the AN-94? Maybe its not forgotten but its a very interesting gun, and maybe i would actually understand how it works if you explained it haha
I'd like to see more magazine videos like this one.
Ian, are you going to talk about the unicorn 5.45 quad stack "coffin" mags? Surefire did a pretty good job copying them.
Great video! From having owned a number of 7.62 AKs, there are a surprising number of 7.62 AK magazine variants out there. There's another kind not touched on here: Chinese. They're just like the Eastern European, but with no rib on the spine (flat back), so a little easier on the thumb. They also seem to have slightly better fit and finish.
thanks for actually having a video for this nerd info I was looking for while laying in bed at midnight
I really love this sort of informative video, please keep it up!
how the fuck can a channel like this get disliked?
I wanna see more magazine videos
There is an OTK stamp on
bakelite mag, which is Quality Control.
Yup, I was using steel mag for kbk wz 88 Tantal
Bakelite is Fenal and formaldehyde. You need to add other chemicals to make this violent chemical reaction stable, put it in a bakelizer, and then the finish product is a "Glass Resin" polymer.
8:57 optical illusion - it looks like the first one is larger yet all but the last one are the same size
Cool video and very informative. One minor thing though, when discussing the differences in weight between items such as this, as much as you did, it would be handy and interesting if you had a digital scale to illustrate the difference in weight between the different magazines. It would helps make it more tangible for we the viewers versus the very subjective terms used in the video.
It is a minor point and suggestion. Love the channel and you make amazing videos. Keep up the great work. :)
Izmash “Izzy” 74 mags come with steel feed lips and steel locking lugs .... right???
Yes. The feed lips have polymer around them. Sometimes the lugs do, sometimes they don't.
The second magazine is an Yugoslav Zastava M70 magazine.
Great video Ian. Wunderbar!
Would love to see a video on the AEK-971 or the AK-12 if you ever get the chance. Not exactly forgotten because of video games it would be really cool to see them
do you have any information available on the green 5.45 mags?
Nope.
militarist.ua/catalog/weapon-accessories/magaziny-oruzheynye/ukr-sdmag-magazin-ak74/ - upgraded soviet mag
from zenitco: "The (former KGB) border guards of the then Soviet Union, now Russian Federation, are rewarded special green-furniture AKM's and AK-74's for exceptional service".
basically borderguard ak furniture.
@@DennyCigano Soviet mags are better. A synthetic material AK mag that doesn't have steel locking lugs and reinforced feed lips means it's sub-par. The Bulgarian circle 10 mags are pretty much the gold standard for what modern AK mags should look like. I believe they even have steel re-enforcing strips that run down the front (possibly back) of the mags as well. At a bare minimum, the locking lugs and feed lips need steel in them, otherwise, one good wack on something and the plastic is going to break. Polymer rock and lock AK mags are not as easy to make as AR mags.
Those are current modern Russian army mags permitted for purchase.
Great Video Ian!.. I have One of Those Exact Same Heavy Duty Ribbed Mags! the 0 stamp identified it! mine is Polish & Came a with my C11 Polish Parts kit Akms! Great Gun! Great Mag!.. Thanks For The info! Have a Great Day & God Bless You Brother!.
Aluminum does oxidize similar to iron/steel. It's usually harder to notice and determine the depth of.
The 3rd mag is identical to mine romenian ak mag
Would like a slab, waffle, and some Norinco bakes for the collection. Have plenty of Tula bales.
Circle 10 waffle are my favorite AK mags.
Used one of those polymer magazines when I was served last year. Pretty durable they are