3D Printed MULTISTAGE Water Pump (Part 1)
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- Опубликовано: 15 ноя 2020
- What is a multistage water pump? This is a centrifugal pump that has more than one impeller between the inlet and outlet. This water pump is used when higher pressure is needed.
I have not seen that someone tries to build one soo I am happy to share with u my effort.
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More explanation for multistage water pump:
• How Horizontal Multist...
• How Multistage Centrif...
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775 DC motor: ali.ski/wmwba
Bearings: ali.ski/y1YkQ
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.stl files for multistage water pump: www.thingiverse.com/thing:465...
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Typically this style pump isn’t intended to be self priming. It requires a steady supply side pressure. This style pump is intended for booster application where it amplifies incoming water pressure. So if you made the supply side hook up to a running water hose you would likely create pressure higher than that of the hose
Source: I work on water booster systems for a living.
He needed to at least prime it before that way he could have a bit of pressure
I wonder if he fully submerges it into the water would it work ..
@@rasg3000 I would think it would at least do alot better because it has water to push instead of sucking air
Actually they typically are self priming. But the first stage is typically fully submerged. Look at how grundfoss coolant pumps are typically used in most c.n.c. machines.
I am a operator and engineer on a 12 inch cutter suction dredger and we have two of these pumps running the jets at the end of the dredging arm. They are self priming assuming there is already a decent amount of water in the casing. Our suction is straight from the sea, with a minute of filling the casings of a external pump when we fire them up we have 318psi at over 4.8m3 a min. Serious bits of kit and always wanted to print a smaller version but I just think the tolerances required are impossible on a 3D printer. Ours need to get ground flat on the impellers.
You need to separate the high-pressure and low-pressure areas. Otherwise, most of the water will just recirculate within each stage.
I was thinking 3d printed one way valves between each section. Like Integza's design.
ruclips.net/video/QFKWZHB8-FQ/видео.html
Exactly what i thought from the beginning. Look at turbines, each stage has higher blades angle.
@justan idiot imaging writing an essay hating on integza just because he did something wrong...
@justan idiot tomato farm dweller
Yeah, and it also requires stator vanes to de-spin the flow after each stage - otherwise it won't flow into next impeller. The design in a video is just bad...
All the first impellers should be propellers and the las one an impeller. Reasoning: the impeller accelerates the flow outwards thats why the outlet is tangential, the propellers accelerate flow forward thats why the outlet is coaxial to the inlet. Your pump design accelerates every stage towards the outer wall but the inlet of each stage is in the center, the only optimal stage is the last one with the inlet in the center and the tangential outlet. Also consider individual angular velocities for your stages to improve efficiency. Just my two cents I hope this helps, keep up the good work, people like you make complex designs accessible to people who need them :)
Hint: Conical shape to convert pressure into flow at each stage....
Well yeah, but its a diy would it not be better to try multiple axial stages that lead to a centrifugal pump? Multistage Centrifugal Pumps tend to be sensitive to design parameters right? Maybe both can be built and put to the test?
I think most multistage pumps have seals between the stages, otherwise you get flow reversal. For a fluid like water you can easily 3d print labyrinth seals. Cool project, I like the idea.
For the silicon part, you might want to apply the silicon on just one side of the half and let it fully cure before proceed to assemble another half.
That way, the silicon will act like a custom made gasket and reusable for many times without need to apply new one for each removal.
You might want to apply a thin coat of dish washer soap or vegetable oil on another half for easier removal for first time assembly, just in case it become sticky and for ease of removal later on.
Here's my idea:
water leaves the impellers with a lot of angular momentum; The water may have too much centripetal force to flow back inward into the subsequent impellers. If you could straighten the flow (like with guide vanes), you may be able to make the pump MUCH more efficient.
Backflow is high, you need smaller gaps between inlets and outlets to reduce backflow.
I seriously recommend using the sharpie trick on supports, you use support interface (for a better finish) and set Z Gap to 0mm (just like when using soluble supports)
then you insert a pause script before the layer is printed on the supports, you paint the supports with sharpie and I recommend brushing the support roof interface layer with watered down white glue so the part sticks well to the supports, plastic really really doesn't want to stick to sharpie, so the supports (even with the thin glue) come off like butter in one whole piece!
closest thing to soluble supports you can have for cheap! I discovered this trick recently and oh my God it's opened to many possibilities, I really hate supports, they're not precise and always get stuck, but my method is flawless
you should also take a look at how jet engines and turbomolecular pumps work, you want increasingly higher attack angles and I don't think impellers will stack efficciently, you may want another impeller design (like on commercial pumps and turbos) that start out small and flare out at the base for gradually higher and higher speed, they scoop a ton of water at the small end and accelerate it a lot at the big end
video on this technique pls ... seems interesting
I've been considering experimenting with a similar technique. See, I had a printer with bad thermal calibration, so I was printing much colder than what I expected. This lead to poor layer adhesion, like you could pull on the layers and they would separate no problem. I was wondering if this could be used to our benefit when doing supports. We add a script so that the interface between supports is 0mm apart, just printed much colder than the rest of the part so that it doesn't fuse properly. Haven't gotten around to it though, since I'm still struggling to get my sidewinder x1 working again.
Failure is the first step to success 💯
Failure is also the first step to failure.
Or to failure
Make inlet=that short pipe connection to pump body airtight. Also, check if your pump makes higher pressure by adding some restriction to outlet. Multi stage pumps are for pressure, not flow.
Hard work never fail
Actually ... It does ... Alot of times. It's just that losers mostly don't tell their stories
Survivor's bias
very nice video about a waterbump
Great design :) but you should try this test: pump water into a hose, and see how high you can pump the water. That is the true usefulness of a multistage pump!
Turbine pumps have to be primed. Almost always. Add a boat propeller to the intake. Big, steep angle that churns water straight in, you'll get a vacuum leak without it. Probably. Run the rod straight out the end, add an aggressive impeller if you are pumping garden/grey water.
You need to stop the water rotation after each stage outlet, stator vanes, only then can the pressure increase over each stage. I had a similar issue when designing a multistage air pump, where each stage needs to be smaller than the previous due to compression. Water doesnt compress so each step can be similar in size
Just thinking out loud, shouldnt the water be going into the inlet? These impelers dont look like they would suck the water from the tank, I wouldve imagined water should already be flowing into the inlet to get pumped.
P.s. love your videos!
True words have been spoken
Very interesting video! I like that you listen to your community for ideas. I recently started learning about these pumps and from my understanding so far, they are used to boost the static pressure, not the speed or flow, so different impeller sizes or impeller speed-increase for each stage, like some suggested, is not very useful. However, a re-design to seal the impellers or seperate the outlets from the inlets is probably useful, to prevent recirculation and the pump needs to be primed. For testing, maybe you can compare how high the pump can push the water up in a tube against gravity, this might show the increase in static pressure better.
Some thoughts about the mechanical design:
Maybe design spacers to precisely seperate the impellers on the shaft for easy assembly
Some kind of raised rim on the housing to center the two halves (also makes sealing easier? )
Maybe using only two or three stages instead of going all-in on the first test (optional ;)
Another way to chain multiple stages is to add a set of stator vanes between each impeller. They should be spiral shaped to turn the spin of the water as it leaves the impeller into a parallel flow with no spin. Also, on the enclosed vane impeller, you want the input and output cross section to be the same. I.e. it needs to be thinner at the edge than the center.
Printing TPU gasket (tiiviste) instead of silicone sealer would make your projects disassemble easier than breaking them apart.
Well, inlet and outlet are bypassed in your Design around the impeller. So you are basically blending water, not pumping
The problem is that you don't have sealing between stages. Just as Txepetxcc said. (odd name)
Great video as always. I really like the fact that you're still improving and listening to advice and critiques.
I think a VERY useful part was the diagram of the water flux, very clear.
If i may say, i would added the section of the rotor and maybe a compareson whit a short comment (but you could do it at project ended).
Still very good job, keep up the good work.
Ps the speacking is still improving, you're getting there.
why you dont use an printed seal with flexible materials? ?
and your problem with the first wheels was... you have some air in it...
for those pumps you should all air out of the pump housing
Офигенный контент многоступенчатого насоса, разберись с потоком воды, почитай о таких насосах, там поток воды надо разворачивать в разную сторону. И зазор минимальный нужен, а если бы заработала то поток воды был бы офигенный, пожалуйста доделаю этот проект.👍
thats a cool water bump
Great video, thank you. You didn’t appear to silicone between each stage of the pump, so you might have water leaking internally, back into the previous stage.
Hi , the multicelular pump can produc a high presure in the outlet but need an initial inlet presur to work , that meen you have to put an tank in high level and connect him with the inlet of this pump , or you have to add an normal pump (volumic pump booster ) befor that multicelular pump .
each stage has it's own bobbling so at the end, u get lots of air instead of liquid.
So I've worked a lot with pumps. I'm no pro, but I'm one damn clever cookie and I grew up on a farm that had a well. So I don't have a formal education but I've spent more time working on pumps than I care to admit. Now centrifugal pumps can't operate with air inside them. In short its because the spin applies force on the liquid that is easily dissipated in only one direction... kinda like a tesla valve. Theoretically is can flow in both directions, one just has orders of magnitude less resistance. When you have an incompressible medium, like water, then a spinning impeller will push water from it's center to its edges.
That concept is used in centrifugap pumps by having the water inlet be the center of the impeller. Its spinning pushes the water in a general "way" direction. The housing then contains the water in toroidal flow around the impeller, which we also take advantage of by having the outlet in line with and tangential to the impeller. This results in the water thats pushed by the blades pushing on all the surrounding water, and the path of least resistance is the outlet.
Your design has the basic shapes and features of a pump nearly perfect, but you didn't consider the roll pressure would play in this set up. To be more precise, you didn't prime your pump which in your case is absolutely necessary. Notice how in my explanation everything pushes on something else, so all the forces are continuous? When air is in the system it doesn't just come out of its own accord. It is WAY less dense than water so it will float to the top of the housing. Then when the water is trying to find a way to dissipate the energy from the impellers shove the path of least resistance is to compress the air in the housing. A few times won't do much, but if you compress an decompress anything ~30 times a second eventually it'll get hot. Hot things can warp, and warped things break.
The other issue I saw was that the stages weren't isolated. Each impeller has only one way to impart its force, from the center to the edge. By not restricting the waters ability to flow between each section the impellers create independently spinning rings of water with the force between them balancing out. The only way this set up will work is if each impeller compounds to the next, else they will all be isolated rings of water. Actually I suspect the small volume that actually came out was due to the water balancing between chanbers: if the impellers weren't perfectly spaced then the distribution of forces between any two chambers would be different. This would force the shaft to move back and forth ever so slightly, randomly creating a momentary seal between sections. When that happened a small volume of water would be forced though to the next section in the chain and the seal would be violently broken creating other seals throughout the system. If you ran this continuously the impellers would eventually be bushes along the shaft until they were all balanced, the output decreasing to zero as this happened.
Again, I'm not an educated men so this isn't an "educated guess". I'm just a clever cookie, only a simple farm boy tryin his hand at fluid dynamics.
I love how you say "water bump"! Keep it up!
In skateboard they would use bearing spacers for that. You don't need to add them, but in your case it would be ideal.
Awesome video bro.
Support from India
I think I can see the problem. There are no gaps around the impellers so the flow is being restricted and giving you a bad pump. Hope this helps.
I’m hooked on this dudes accent. I’m curious as to where he’s from.
To make supports easier to remove, increase the distance between the highest support layer and the part. Usually its 0 or 1 layers, but changing it to 2 layers should make life easier.
Seems you know what you are doing and what is happening XD nice job man...
He puts metal, he puts actual metal 2:58. loved it.
You need flow straighteners immediately after each impeller otherwise centrifugal force of rotating water is forced toward wall of housing and never makes it into the next stage. flow straighteners stop the water rotating after each stage
Good concert, I agree
I like your videos asf. Subscribed!
I can not imagine how this multiple stages would improve the pump over an single stage pump. Never the less the friction will be 5 times higher, while flow rate and pressure are still the same. So its' 5 time less effektive !
Sick 5-double turbo m8
You should fill the volute with water before starting the impeller. This is called "priming". I am sure that with this little tip you pump will work properly.
If you want to improve it even more you should differentiate impellers and volutes as the pressure increases.
Add a planetary gear set in between each one so that they all spin at different speeds.
multiple stages wont improve flow but it does improve pressure.
brother man... i love the way you think... i wish you were my next door neighbor
Yes you called it at the end. Each chamber had nowhere to go except to dead head and just let water pass through tiny spaces
Good test. But it will only work with independent outputs discharging into a manifold.
The flow rate may only be related to the last pump, and multiple pumps directly connected in series will only reduce the speed and waste power.
Your biggest problem is suction in the pump, obviously; but your turning it on without flooding the pump and air can go back into the pump from the port. Just like a syphon, the pump won't work with air in the system.
You should 3d print ninjafex gaskets. So it is more easy to assemble and disassemble
Idk if you do but let the silicone firm up some for 5-10 mins then torque the screws down. What we do when we rebuild engines at the shop
It seems like it was probably sucking up air with the water so it never achieved full prime. also you might need like a 5hp motor to power that pump without being under severe load.
I think every stage should have it' own intake and output and then the outputs mounted in parallel and so the intakes
Maybe if you blend the blades, like a turbo, even you could add a stator disc
At the 8 motor Gerbox and green impeller test, isnt it spinning the wrong direction?
First of all, the single dc motor was rotating in the other direction thats why it didnt even suck a singke drop of water inside
Is the pump suffering from cavitation? Judging by the foamy water coming out the outlet...
Nice :)
Is it me or is it rotating opposite the direction of the volute outlet?
this pump when running in the bathtub, sounds like a gas turbine locomotive or a really powerful diesel engine or even a possible jet!
it doesn't need to be high volume output, its for high pressure, put a pipe on outlet and see how high water will go up
Please get a lab bench power supply. You can get the for very cheap and then you can create a higher voltage and I think your pump would work at higher rpms.
Try puting an air leaker on the top to get rid of the air that might be the problem.
My friend what youbare making is a high pressure pump. I mean you can load a high pressure tank up to 3000 psi.
i strongly recommend prushament, also pla should work better for most of your projects
you should close the gap between each Centrifugal Propeller and housing from entery side, even if it touch the housing you will get best result
Why not try a tangent combination of multiple pumps? Centrifugal force throws it at 90 degrees from first pump. Second pump takes 90 degrees outlet as its inlet and throws at another 90 degrees. And so on. Bit too late for recommendations but probably only you can do this.
Hi. Thanks a lot. PLEASE, how do you do to avoid water to pass throw the printed PLA? I have made only one part in printed PLA and there were little drops in the walls outside, it's porous ,even at 100% filling.
Your problem Travis is that there is no cause for the spun water at high radius to slow and loose it's centrifugal effect to pass to the next stage through the exit hole. You need guiding vanes to catch the spinning water and redirect it from circumferential flow to inwards radial flow. Your motor load and your outlet pressure will drastically increase as a result.
those tests might have been a low flow rate. but what was the pressure?
good work great music
The idea is very cool but I think it hard to make it more efficient than single impeller pump.
Water has too little space and too much distance to travel through all the pump body
"Well this pump is shit." Lol.
Research more on how volute casing works and its arrangement for 2nd stage pumps
You could get some flex material and print costume gaskets instead of having to deal with the messy silicone ;)
Looks a lot like booster pumps on older firetrucks
I've noticed that if you have the whole impeller or inlet of the impeller in water then it helps suck it up because there's air in it which is allowing me to fling the water so try to submerge maybe the first stage reply to this if you need any more help
Didn't the pump had to be completely full of water? I know it from selling pumps at first you have to fill them with water so the don't want to pull the air. Try it with a one direktion valve on the inlet side
I think there is a problem they way you printed the internal volute; I mean the directions that guide the fluid from the "discharge" of the previous impeller the the suction side of the following impeller, which of course would be a little difficult to print😅. But congrats! it is really beautiful pump.😍
The bubbles seem to be a sign that it's not sealed. I'd look at the neck that goes into the water, you sealed everywhere but there, and as it got further into the water, it started working better.
Great invention! Did you use fresh water?
If I may ask, how efficient would this water pump be if used has a turbine generator?
do we get part 2
Hey the new supercharger is here!
Each of these stages is indeed a centrifugal pump - accelerating the water toward the outside of the pump. This is why on the final stage it flares out to the outlet. Each stage accelerates the water toward toward the outside and then it has nowhere to go. This is just a single stage pump still. You would have to have some kind of outlet at the outside of each stage redirecting the water toward the center of the next stage. Also as I'm sure you've noticed, centrifugal pumps are not self priming - you need it to be fed by gravity, or start it with water inside.
Why not use support that dissolves in water?
I think gasket maker will seal better then silicone
you need to change impeller design open up the top wall so water can flow into the nest stage
Second stage into the turd 😂
Where is part two?
Интересно. Очень интересный проект. Жду продолжения. Только вот почему не получился первый вариант.... А так выглядит продуктивно.
Diffusers are needed on each stage.
I think is the angle which the water pump is placed
Awesome
I have an idea for a engine design this might work well for :-D But ive redesigned the impeller blades in a new configuration i think would work really well...
Part 2 out?
Can you help me please if possible?? To make a pump that can push enough water to out to put fires out ..so if you have a pool you can pop it in and use it with a solar panel or batterys or from your home...for like wildfires in cali and here in az? Just thinking of ways of saving lives and could help firefighters could leave them out for them all ready with brief instructions on how to use it and a sign out front your home to show a pump of some sort idk you never know tbh but idk if it's possible or not but would be cool
Are you sure the shaft is turning in the right direction?
Did you use supports on the impellers? This is super cool! Very nice job!
Thank u mate! ;) For impellers I didn’t use supports.
@@LetsPrintYT I actually just designed and 3d printed a few of my own pumps. That's how I found your channel. I made a vane pump, then a small centrifugal pump, now a large one that's probably 10+gpm!
You need a very tight fit between the impellers and the intake side of the casing. Also those impeller are way too large for the power that you have, I think that pump is about a 1,5kw but I can be wrong.