3D Printed Turbo Pump
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Designing, 3D printing, and testing a turbo pump for injecting fuel and air into a rocket. All turbo parts are made with resin 3D printing, to eventually inject fuel and air to a rocket.
3D files:
www.thingivers...
Turbo uses 3mm bolts and nuts.
Small bearings:
www.amazon.com...
Large bearings:
www.amazon.com...
This is a really cool project. I love the fact that there’s a whole group of RUclipsrs collectively attempting to build DIY rocket engines and stuff! Soon we’ll have the first completely RUclipsr run space agency lol!
Look up "Copenhagen Suborbitals" if you want to see something similar to that idea, it's really neat!
Look up bps space
@@0ni_x4 That's who I am talking about in part when I said "a whole group"
Me and afew friends are nearing the end of our SSTO research and we hope to have our test plane done in 2 years
I'm competing at the Texas State Science and Engenering Fair next week. My project was a 3D printed alchohol and oxygen rocket. Iv had the Idea of 3D printing a rocket engine since my school won a 3D printer in a grant my freshman year. While researching I came across your channel. You've been a great inspiration in project and I just want to say thank you.
Well, how'd it go?
@@FreshAsFxck didn't place, only top 3 in their category know what they placed but I was at least 27th in state (in my category) because thats all that was competing at state
This is incredible! Way to go!
Turbomachinery is hard when we do it for a full time job.
there's tons and tons of literature around turbochargers used in vehicles.
One thing that's important is that the turbine side is smaller than the impeller side in cars.
I think you are the first RUclipsr making DIY 3D printed centrifugal pumps that actually used the term "turbopump" correctly. So many people think that any centrifugal pump is a turbopump and completely neglect the fact that "turbo" means it is powered by a turbine. But you actually made an honest to god turbopump, turbine and all. Way to go man! This is so freaking cool!
How do you only have 28k subscribers?! This is some of the coolest and best presented engineering on RUclips
WOW! I didn't even notice! Geeeeze You better be on the Up in up because this is awesome.
RUclips likes to promote junk that make people dumb so this channel has a long climb ahead.
he only has 28k because it's a niche of building amd 3d printing with a niche within a niche of making rockets, which is not for everyone
@@VerbenaIDK lol explain smarter every day and integza
@@willhaney96 integza is same thing and pretty sure smarter everyday has a bunch of science in it, whoch not all people will br interested, idk about mehdi tho
maybe because he almost kills himself every video, that man is lucky he's alive, he bamboozled death at the very least once
perhaps try using both turbos in series making a multi-stage turbo
if i understand correctly the way to increase pressure on the fuel side of the turbo would involve either increasing the speed at which the air moves through the turbo or increasing the size of the air side of the turbo allowing for more airflow. in rocketry it's hard to get one turbo that properly feeds both the correct amount of air and the correct amount of fuel and so they have two turbos, one for fuel and one for oxidizer and each turbo pump runs off of a preburner that runs either oxidizer rich or fuel rich depending on what it's pumping. if you're serious about using turbopumps for your rockets you're probably going to want to borrow the idea of a preburner assembly. depending on the pressures of your rocket you could pipe the exhaust of the pumps into the burn chamber or i think what nasa and other rocket groups do is exhaust it to the bell assembly. godspeed fly safe!
Amazing! Cutting the fuel supply while maintaining airpressure for a few seconds at the end of the burn might help to prevent the flame travelling back to the injector.
FYI, the other way you can check pressure is to have some air in the tube on the end of the fuel line and plug up the line. When it pressurizes the fuel will push up the tube and compress the air. Based on the air properties you can calculate how much pressure was required to compress the air that much.
Gosh I love this channel! Hope you'll get to 100k by the end of this year!
I also think this it a cool project I think your best method of designing a turbo pump without actually engendering the impeller would be to copy an existing pump. You can find 3d models online and scale it down and come a lot closer than just guessing. If you decided to run an electric motor to power the pump I think you could reach much higher pressure.
Maybe make a high-flow one way valve? Maybe use a wuad copter motor to drive instead of air? Maybe get a flow simulation for the pumps?
Nice vid. The hotdog probably glows bright yellow because of all of the salt (sodium).
If you're happy using stored pressure in the oxidizer to pump the fuel / the pressure from the air is enough to overcome your chamber pressure, you can just use a venturi injector. it would also mix the fuel.
Wow, this channel is was under-subbed. Solid quality content. Reminds me of a cross between Integza and Michael Reeves. But he’s much less vulgar, so I feel comfortable sharing his content.
you should get a check valve for the fuel side, but thats basically what an injector is, but could allow for the pressure to first build up, before opening up, and releasing your desired fuel pressure, and then no need to have to mess around optimizing turbo pump, and especially to after you said you have like 150ft of tubing to play with. You can get that punch with out having the length.
The hotdog reminds me of the time that I was smoking a pork shoulder, and I accidentally spilled some of the fat drippings pan on the floor of the smoker. It was maybe 3-4 ounces. It was night time, and it burned so fast that it actually flash blinded me and I couldn't see. Grease and fat have a tremendous amount of embodied energy!
I've seen a lot of comments on the turbine/impeller geometry already, but I think another equally important thing to improve is the shaft constraint. Using a single large bearing like that creates a lot of resistance, and a single deep groove ball bearing has angular play (by design) which makes keeping tip clearances tigh basically impossible. I design high speed shaft systems for my job so while I can't comment much on the blade geometry, I can say that using two much smaller bearings (I'd guess 4-6mm ID) spaced a short distance apart will provide much better angular constraint with mush less resistance. Deep groove ball bearings like that are pretty much always used in pairs to constrain an axis as each bearing constrains a point. You will need a steel shaft though, as a plastic one spinning at these speeds is unlikely to be stiff enough to avoid resonances.
With that said though, it's still an amazing achievement to even make a functional turbopump and injector, nevermind to make it with 3d printing
You could pour a slurry of heat resistant ceramic into the bottle and then spin it at a high speed to so that centripetal force will coat the walls evenly. Or better yet just paint the outside of the bottle and let the Plastic burn away with use. Integza did this a few times with 3d Printed parts.
Thats awesome! What resin do you use?
Holy Cow, I watch your videos all the time! Elegoo standard resin, translucent blue and translucent green: www.amazon.com/dp/B08Z7DM76C/ref=twister_B08YF4VSWF?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
One thing that would improve the efficiency of the turbo is to make the inlet and outlets tangent to the turbine. The turn it makes from going from tangent to radial causes a loss in energy
You could 3d print a ceramic based combustion chamber and nozzle. Integza does this often with good results.
Me everytime I introduce my "revolutionary" college project to the judge: 0:07
Your forgetting the combustion ratio or fuel to air ratio for optimal combustion, propane is like 16-1 16 parts air, 1 part fuel, your air fan would have to be 16 times the size of the fuel pump for optimal combustion, and one way valves will solve the problem of air going back into the fuel line
To get the needed pressure, start with your turbo setup, and when you're ready for full thrust, pressurize the fuel tank with a regulated amount for throttleable thrust. To shut down, cut the pressure to tank, and open a bleed valve to a safe direction. Stuff a little Brillo pad in the hose to keep from fuel-dumping this way, and as a half-assed backflash arrester. ...or use the bleed hose idea with backflash arrester, straight to the combustion chamber to equalize the fuel tank. Since the fumes returning to tank will be already burned, you shouldn't get a combustable mixture in the tank, and mishaps drain to the combustion zone. The gasses will be warmer than the fuel, even if the Brillo pad disrupts any possible flame front, so the tank should go negative pressure on shutdown as a "feature".
really sad i cant use the injector im trying to make an afterburner
electric turbo pump, remove the input side dependency, easier to bootstrap, but you could do hybrid-solid NaClO3 - carbon hybrid drill cylinder rocket, two part, separated, gas-solid hybrid
Larger impeller on the gas side and smaller impeller on the fuel side would allow you to utilize mechanical advantage similar to gear ratios albeit at a reduced fuel flow but higher pressure
I think pressure you fuel reserve with the air, kinda like a blow through carb set up when turboing, you apply. Boost pressure to the float bowl
Stop thinking of it as a turbo pump and start thinking of it as a gear ratio. If a symmetrical drive shaft (same impeller as propeller) shares your incoming pressure 4:1, then make the drive side have 2x the impedance. Then, your combustion air will be at half pressure and your combustion fuel will be at double pressure, and you'll be even.
I don't know if that's actually how the math works, but maybe it's still useful.
Also of note, the flow will necessarily decrease with higher pressures.. so once you max out efficiency, you basically have a sliding scale of flow/pressure for a given input flow/pressure..
The only thing I had thought of is a pressure regulator for the fuel line, the injector test at the appears to have a very rich fuel mixture(which I assume you were running at 20 psi fuel). THe regulator would allow for a higher pressure but a lower flow rate, more of a fine tuning method, hope I could help you with my ideia, great video
Maybe a check valve from the fuel to the rocket would make a pulsating engine, when the rocket has a lower pressure after the combustion, the pressure in the fuel line overcomes the rocket pressure and makes a pulsating combustion
Use a one way valve and it probably won't go badly. I know most of them have moving parts, but there are some with none.
Suggest you to put the 2L bottle in a water bath😜😁 that would be lot more fun 😊
You could use a one way valve on the fuel line to prevent anything from going back into the fuel tank.
You made this for a rocket but I'd love to use this in some extreme irrigation applications. I just wish I could print this or get someone to print it
I'm interested in trying to use an impinging injector like that for building a scrubber or humidifier; it seems like a great way of mixing air and fluids.
Great video!
Awesome project and results! You should look up "velocity triangle", it's a key feature for designing decent turbomachinery.
Orange flame from the hotdog is likely sodium. That's one satly dog
5:20 when your pump is so efficient you struggle to measure how efficient it is xD
A back to back for your first try? Mighty impressive. I work directly with rocket engines and a few coworkers of mine have wanted to do exactly what you did here. Curious to see how this progresses as you get more and more complicated turbomachinery. Would you ever consider trying to implement an actual engine cycle in the future with these?
The hot dog likely contains a massive amount of salt, so the sodium ions will turn the fire a brilliant yellow orange color. Just like sodium vapor lamps glow bright yellow orange.
Decreasing the size of the turbine compared with the impella should increase impella rotational speed
Maybe you could test what happens when you make the air or fuel side bigger than one another
Awesome content!!! It might be interesting to see if a duel turbo set up would make any improvement. You could experiment with series and parallel connections on the fuel and air sides.
Wish you let people determine thier own safety comfort level, would have been fun to 3,d print what I've been making for years in metal.
maybe instead of a film of water get a smaller bottle and place it inside the bigger one and have water in-between those two layers the inside bottle shouldn't melt.( i looked it up and they do melt so maybe have running water to keep it cool)
finally, turbocharged pepsi
The orange color from the hotdog is from the sodium within
Two pumps in series should solve the problem 🤔
fun fact: when using metric system: 10m water column = 1Bar of pressure ;-) also useful for diving
man this dude is so cool
Aawww thanks haha
@@Sciencish yo thx for replying, your rocket videos are absolutely fire! (pun intended)
I am building an edf afterburner at the moment, you and integza inspired me
Make the rocket and/or rocket weight smaller to fit the injector you have. Calculate whether the weight of the injector for such a smaller rocket would still make it possible?
Make the inlet and/or outlet of the current design a smaller diameter thus increasing internal pressure and then supply more (higher) air in to turn the thing. If the materials and connections (hub) are strong enough to support it this could increase your output pressure?
Or consider two different sizes - like a larger inlet size than the outlet size?
Consider different orientations of inlet/outlet? For example the outlet perpendicular to the inlet such that the feul output nozzle is in line with the center of the impeller - combined with an impeller design the pushes the liquid in that direction??
Consider different impeller designs? There was one computer generated one they use for some boating appplications I saw onece.
Consider a hybrid approach where you use two different impeller designs (one design for inlet one design for outlet)?
Love the design! As for the combustion chamber, you could maybe 3dprint it with thicker ablative walls (abs also makes a good fuel if you're not afraid of the fumes) and/or cooling channels to route air and fuel through? It would free you from the limitations of the 2L plastic bottle while still remaining a plastic rocket engine.
Try a higher oxygen content for your oxidizer.
I think the fundamental problem with your design is that it uses relatively small volume of air before the ignition to drive the pump. compare this to the vastly enlarged flow of gasses after they combust in an actual staged combustion rocket pump.
it's still very impressive that it works as well as it does.
Hotdog grease burns that way because of the high sodium content
Great video
“The difference between mine and the real ones is that the real ones work”
The most important thing to know when designing a pump is how”
Immediately subscribed.
You should still post the injector... Even if not for fuel and fire, fine mist is fun
use the combustion chamber pressure to spin the turbine?? i know this takes more work including a way to start the thing but it would be cool to see
really appreciate the effort yo put into these videos, i must say the way you explain whatever you are explaining is very intuitive and fun. keep up the great work!!
One thing that might be worth looking into, that would definitely make this way easier from the sealing and fluid dynamics POVs, is going with an electrically driven pump. Small BLDC motors are available with frankly terrifying power densities, and your pump isn't putting out that much hydraulic power (volumetric flow rate times pressure) anyways.
Exactly what I wanted to recommend after watching this video.
While improving the efficiency of the turbopump is certainly possible and should be done either way, using drone motors and maybe some VESC based programmable speed controller would at least be far easier to get working.
However if the goal is to use the developed technique in a model rocket to actually fly it the weight considerations of using a motor with lipo and vesc come to mind.
I wonder if the yellow flame was partly due to the sodium in the hotdog?
I’m a little late to the party… buuuuut I’m taking a course about turbo machinery this semester. The exam is coming up and I’m looking for real world tasks to practice. So if you like, give me the specs you want and I’ll try to optimize/calculate the geometry… granted comments are not super good for information exchange, so some other means of communication would be great.
I am constantly checking out your YT profile to see whether you posted something new or not.
Well thanks! Sorry, it’s slow going when I’m working on complex projects and working a full time job haha
@@Sciencish You don't have to apologize, I totally understand you; it's just that you're one of the very few youtubers that are still making great stuff. I'd love to subscribe to your Patreon channel and relieve you of your full time job xD
What about using two stages of turbo pumps connected in series to increase fuel pressure?
you must use a different wheel shape on fuel pump
I think you should also check integza's youtube channel he's been doing something relative to this.
I haven't tried it yet, but I installed a FreeCAD plugin the other day for turbine blade design. If you also install OpenFoam you can do fluid dynamic simulations. If it is like the finite element analysis side of FreeCAD, it is actually pretty easy to do assuming directions. I was thinking a quick and dirty way to model pressure might be to treat it like hydraulics or pneumatics where the cross sectional area moving the fluid is the area of the piston. If it works at all I suspect it would be fairly inaccurate because of all the leakage, and other reasons. Maybe the best thing would be to keep the air motor constant sized, and print a larger pump. Take many measurements of the existing one and the new one and see if a pattern pops out when you graph stuff. When doing that sort of thing, I like to use prime numbers 3 or larger for sizes so you avoid stuff like 2+2=4 and 2*2=4 and 2^2=4. Anyway, try making your own empirical equation.
And as a silly side note you might not have noticed yet, but water column height is a common unit of measurement in some fields so there are simple conversions for switching to psi, pascals and etcl. Sometimes it is inches of water, sometimes feet of "head" or just "head." While the static pressure is too large for it to be easy to use, it can be handy in other situations. Like you might want to find the pressure drop between two locations in a pipe or duct, kinda like voltage across a resistor.
Subbed. This is great.
Accumulator in fuel tank. Its just a "void" that's pressurized to keep the minimum psi needed in tge combustion chamber.
You can study aircraft hydraulic systems to get a quick overview. A technical schematic of landing gear systems should get you there without a lot of research.
sooo......... YOU DID WAT
when collab with integza? i want to see a fully diy 3d printed rocket go to space
I love your video's keep it up man
Wow, very good job. Anyway I thing that you will need to use pure oxygen to get compleate combuscion in finished engine
Very nice
im not a rocket engineer at all, but maybe? if you make the air side of the turbo to have a bigger impeller it could work sort of like a gear ratio where the faster air would pump the smaller fuel impeller even faster and it could make the fuel to air ratio more even? i am really bad at fractions but an 80 air to 20 fuel you would need to shrink the fuel side by 75%. maybe double check that math, i dont know fluid mechanics
The color of the hotdog is from the sodium nitrite and sodium chloride, as well as a little bit of sodium benzoate.
So what would it take for me to convince you to maybe not post the injector files publicly but maybe just send em my way? This is what we are currently doing in my Science Club and we would love to try it out.
My intuition says the diameter should be bigger on the fuel side. I can't wait to see if that proves correct. Although I suspect this will also have to be multistage.
Tesla Turbine on the air side
Well. If you are using compressed air then drive the turbo pump.
Why not pressurise the fuel tank with that air?
Then the pump will add pressure from fuel already at the pressure of the air.
Of course it means mixing the fuel with air. Hmmm. Otherwise pressurise with nitrogen or something.
I theory there is no reason the turbo can't make more pressure. Its a matter of volume v pressure. If you make a larger pump impeller diameter and reduce the pumping volume by making the impeller thinner. As well have it sealed front and back like many ww2 supercharger impellers. It can pump a higher pressure. Just at less volume or it won't keep the rpm.
Seen a few Tesla valves printed off, along side two different size pipes for fuel and air might solve your back flow issue.
Very interesting.
What about playing with length and diameter of the fuel line and add simple 3d printed one way valve (ballbearing and spring) ?
The problem with the one way valve is that if the chamber pressure is greater than fuel line, even without backflow of fuel, there will no be fuel flowing into the chamber anyway. Probably the chamber will ignite in explosion cicles instead a continuous regime. He needs to increase pressure into the fuel line until it get greater than combustion chamber.
try different size blades on the turbo. in a car turbo. the exhaust fan is bigger then the intake fan. which in your setup the exhaust fan will be your air line.
nice
You could try a turbine design similar to a pelton wheel like the one Tom Stanton made in a video a while back ruclips.net/video/fkTK4F7Xqqo/видео.html
you are interested in applying a check valve in your fuel line between the turbo and combustion chamber.
So you need the air to be at 20 psi
A valve that reduces the section ?
Or a bigger opening at the chamber is what comes to mind
If you have P*V =n*R*T and take V per second
You have the area in te ecuation V=A*v (speed of the fluid)
Then bigger area lower preassure at nRT constant
Dude I like the injector u selling File? Think of add to a hho dry cell to generator to make clean free energy.
Super intéressant la turbo pompe..... Quelle poussée avez vous ?
Can you put the bottel in a bigger container filled with water to cool it and maybe the Film cooling on top?
attach the injector to a an RC dog/quadcoptor and you have yourself a million view video
turbo size is approx. 3:1
Couldn't you use different sized impellers each side of the turbo?
Wouldn't the turbine be self-regulating with the combustion pressure? The amount of oxidizer and fuel it could put through would be reduced when the chamber pressure is higher, since the outlet of the impeller feeds into the chamber itself. That would in turn lower the chamber pressure. Not a fluid dynamics expert though.....
Yes it does make sense.
what about using brushless motors instead of pressurized air?
Very cool, thanks!
How can I love and hate you at the same time love because your videos are so great but hate because you don't post the files