TESTING 72V ON THE MINI BIKE (RAZOR, FUNBIKES, PIT BIKE)
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
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I have a Surron that i pimped up, new big fat rear tyre, new side skirts, new bigger rear mud guard. Handle bar hand guard's. It's ledge! We should have a tear up round Danbury, would be EPIC!
Also tell steve i bought a crazy cart last year, completely stripped it down, took it all apart, sanded and sprayed the whole thing, pimped that also, i put a LITHIUM 48v battery in it. I put MASSIVE long board wheels on it, with huge casters. Its so much fun.
Id love to be able to show you guy's! Haha.
All the best Matt.
You of all people should make this into an unbelievably quick little pit bike. Would be awesome to see you go all out on this. 👊
I'm trying!!
Cell 6 looks very very unhappy under load, you should definitely replace the batteries in that cell. It is very likely limiting your current out of the battery and could be heating up quite a bit.
Correct, somethings up with that bank.
@@andykirby the motor will probably have a gearing system built inside it to reduce the rpm "like a restrictor :)"
@@andykirby I would upgrade the suspension and breaks as well
Brakes are great, they are small motorcycle brakes not mountain bike brakes. The front forks are good as well, only thing that could be upgraded is the rear suspension but it's hard as nails and good for a heavy rjder.
@@andykirby I've got a rear soft spring 200 i2i you can have if you pay postage
I've seen those cells in some really cheap powertool batteries.
They're okay, but not great. Tend to have a bit more capacity when they're not pushing over 10a per cell. if you can get them to do that. most are fairly old now though so they tend to underperform quite a bit.
Yeah.
My 20 quid chinese controller was dumping 50 amps from standstill into my geared hub.
Could climb a wall but melted phase wires once a week.
Good to see that according to the cells makings its at least close to 15ah. Looks like changing that rear sprocket is definitely the way to go to increase the torque since. And as others have said that 6th cell bank on your pack was definitely struggling under load
Adding more voltage will not give you more torque. You need amps, sticking with a 48v battery with a higher discharge will give you more torque. Also, you need a different controller. The phase runner won't give you the torque output like a 100a or 150a Sabvoton or Kelly controller and it does not have many DC amps. Switch to a Sabvoton or Kelly 80a or 100a controller and you will see a big difference right away. staying with the phase runner you will need a really tall rear sprocket which I assume would be hard to find for that bike.
Yeah you are right. Big amps are needed here. I thought the phaserunner might be OK as I have done numerous mid drive builds with phaserunners and they do work well BUT only with motors with big final reduction gearboxes. Finding sprockets for this build has proved a bit difficult so yeah the next thing will be just throwing a big controller in to get some big DC and phase amps. I think the motor will handle it in short bursts. It was basically cold at 90 phase amps from the phaserunner.
Awesome Andy it looks and sounds so much fun 😃 I can`t wait to see the next part on it it going to be mad 🤣
You want a big sprocket for sure. At low speed the phase amps are capping out which limits acceleration. It's not reaching peak battery amps (peak power) until about 650 RPM and by that point you're really moving because of the tall gearing. You could get a more powerful controller to increase acceleration by allowing for more phase amps, but like you said, you don't want it to be a super fast bike so there's not much point to that.
Also set your phase current limit to 85A to avoid phase over current errors.
Probably won't get the low down torque you're looking for because the motor doesn't have the reduction gear before the final chain drive like the sur ron has. That reduction really helps with low speed torque because the motor is spinning faster. Stuffing a load of amps in at extremely low rpm could heat the stator up quickly and get hot spots.
I noticed your battery output amperes were 33-35, the phase current was 3 times higher. Surely the Watts being consumed is measured from what the battery is providing?
yes i agree, i paused the video and saw the battery at 72.78V with current of 58.53A which is 4259W, i thought his battery was being pushed quite hard.
Of all the places i thought that 72v would end up! haha, awesome mate.
🤣 72V ends up on everything eventually!!! You know that!
Love the pit bike video's and upgrades! I wouldn't even wanna put a 72v in my Surron! 🤣haha....crazy. but epic! Need more videos dude!
I love watching the pit bike ones! 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻AWESOME! 🤙🏻🤙🏻🤙🏻
Gearing !!!
You need to gear it down most motors like that have a planetary gearbox on them
Andy, In your first video on this bike you mentioned a few assembly problems , were they wheel \ brake related ?
Sabvoton is the only solution if you want more power.phaserunner is very good looking little controller but its not good for more than 1500watts. phaserunner overheats very fast and have very low power on low rpm even if you max out the phase current.
Yeah exactly what I was thinking.
Not good for more than 1500w? I run mine at 5200w daily and never gets hot.
Yeah I run mine on the vapour at about those sort of power levels too but it's through multi stage gear reduction. This bike needs low down torque and bigger phase amps from a big controller like a sabvoton or kelly.
@@andykirby Yep, gearing definitely helps the controller out. Any idea what the motor is rated for in that thing? Hopefully a more powerful controller won't cook it.
I have a 48volt 1500-2000w wheel on a 48volt controller box on a 52voltbattery, KT display, what controller box can I up grade too, to get abit more speed out off it, your help is much appreciated
andy kirby ? How come you don't use a hub motor on your mini bike ? it would give you more room, for bigger battery and controller and you would not need a chain. They have Ebikes with hub motors that can get up to 80-100 MPH or 129-161 KPH.
What about race car battery? They are very small an super power full
Could add stuntman to his resume now. :) 👍👍😎 Great content. That mini bike is awesome.
Kelly Square wave controller kbse it would put out some serious bottom end not as economical on battery as sinewave but it gives you 100% from the get go my sabvaton had only a bit more top end speed over the kelly and a whole 5 more miles out of that controller but take off was woefully bad I like the square wave it's a lot of stomp right off the bottom just my two cents
another thing that some of the brands use is a throttle response delay so if the kid were to open the throttle full the bike would go to limp mode instead of full power,it might be worth trying a different throttle maybe? how does the little bike compare to the quad you put the drill batterys on ? that seemed pretty quick on the video you did on the quad..
Strange, I've always had good low end power on my builds, but never used a phase runner. I'd put a 100 amp shunt in and increase the rear sprocket size. Like you said, you don't want any more high end.
Have you tried double tapping the throttle¿? Some of those controllers have a slight delay when you first accelerate, maybe try double twisting really quickly before you set off. I wish you could get a Razor Mx650 because they're a little bigger (about the size of a 110cc pit bike) and when you get the power down, they RIP..... Right now I'm doing about 30mph+ (48v 2000w) but when I get the funds I'm getting the 60v-72v 3000w kit (and maybe the 80v Greenworks battery packs) and they'll do about 55+mph, w/ a motor like that I'm gonna need lights and turn signals and everything because it will be my daily bike for running around close to home. 😁 I really hope this works out for you... They really are an amazing amount of fun in such a little package.
Awesome bro, i love this content! I cant wait until the next video bro!
Another great video andy, cell 6 was dropping really low under load, but a very impressive bike non the less, can't wait to see more mods!, nice graceful falls aswell LOL!
ALSO! google custom motorcycle sprockets, lots of sand racing and drag race guys have custom sprockets cut
The batteries have the same looking rap as Liitokala HG2 3000mAh cells. But with them being 2000mAh they must be some OEM types that have generic rap and 2000mAh seems like an honest capacity.. think if these cells were getting sold to the public you'd find them online after looking up the code.. and will have a way higher capacity written on them..
All these electric bikes and vehicles, and you have a manual screwdriver? :-D
This looks absolutely awesome 👌. Im at a bit of a crossroads at the minute, we bought my lad a 36v 500W XTM dirt bike 2 and half years ago for his 7th bday. He turns 10 this October and im thinking of an upgrade, I do like the look of these renegade bikes, but I know xtm and funbikes have brought out 1500w versions 48V. They do look good but I l do like the idea of a future mod to make it more powerful as he gets older. He has asked for a petrol pit bike, price wise they're cheaper but people hate the noise, plus there's the maintenance too. Would you recommend the battery and speed controller mods? Price wise what you looking at? Great video by the way!
For something like what he has the cheapest you can probably do is £250 I bought the same bike you have for £100 and gonna try make it very fast
The only cells I know of that are brown and branded are LG but I highly doubt those are them. Seems they are just crappy generic batteries they have used. Still good to see it was close to the stated AH though
Where’d you get the brakes?
Tempted, might get the 1500w from funbikes and throw the sabvoton 72150 in there
Alright andy can i get one of those boost controllers of the fun bikes websites for a quad 800w motor
Powerful bike!
Please bro tell me what bike this is I wanna build mine off this frame too I want your bike bro
Looking forward to seeing this thing rip!
Looked like it was cooking at top speed!
love your vido , how you record the deasbord from app (fahsrunner)? i have one how i do so?
Screen recording
I'd love a setup for my crf70 framed pitbike
Hey Andy, I am going to stick to my previous post, I have the feeling that your motor is a high turn (which translates to a lower low end torque) motor, The sprocket on that motor is already very small and torque wise should give you a kick in the pants, but, it does not, I would say get a lower turn motor and you should have instantaneous low end torque. QS is a good example, lower turn higher current higher low end torque, higher turn lower current less low end torque. The phaze runner is over heating because it has to chuck in so much current that is being wasted. Putting the Sabvoton on that motor is going to cook it. I think.... Oh and I see you have a porn bot post (Brian Thomas).
I think you could be right although I'm not convinced the motor is completely wrong because it worked quite well with the standard controller. The phaserunner seems to be limiting it's power from 0rpm... maybe it just can't produce the torque needed... too high load with my weight on it as well. But again it accelerated ok with the standard controller, these cheap Chinese controllers seems to just whack as many phase amps in as possible to get the thing moving... I'm going to try the brute force method with the sabvoton and big phase amps. The motor is not even stressed with the phaserunner so I think its got room to handle a 4-5kw burst for acceleration as long as you don't run up a long hill it should be OK.
@@andykirby I'm not saying the motor is wrong. I'm saying for the outcome your looking for it's just not made for it. Weight I think is the issue, the motor is designed to put out a certain starting force. I agree that the Chinese controllers do have a very different starting curve. My suggestion is this, play around with the accelerator timing. This determins how quickly all the amps are given, I would do this first rather than just dump in all the phase amps, it'll lead to heat soak.
do you have any idea what its top speed is
Did you change only the voltage and current to the 1300w motor? How often does overheating occur? If there is an acceptable current limit for the motor, can I overclock it for a long time? What controller did you use?
app was only showing like max 35ish battery amps and 60ish phase amps somethings not right there if your settings are maxed! and cell 6 does look weak!
What kit do I buy for the mototec?
The throttle is not going to 100%. You have to adjust the throttle voltage
High inductance motor might be causing an issue. Assuming you've got the correct motor pole configuration.
Should the throttle be reading 5v when wide open?
I wonder how fast the wheel spins freewheel vs you on it. If there is a terrific difference this may suggest you just need the biggest sprocket you can fit on there and to run the motor up high rpm to get the speed, the torque will then be there down low too. Low speed motor current should be better (lower) too. I see 90a on that motor but not 90a of performance. My 52vbbshd wheelies in the upper gears even with like 15a. I wonder if the motor on your mini bike has a planetary gear set inside, I bet its reducing like a bbshd or m620 too, maybe not as much of a reduction though. If it rips like you sugest up top, then probably the gearing is crazy crazy long and thats your only problem, like trying to start a car off the line in 5th gear.
It spins quickly but then so does my 5000W hub unloaded. Yeah defo have a point there, remeber 90A is motor amp though, on pull away the battery amps are quite low (10-20) my bafang M620 wheelies at very low amps too but then it has a multi stage reduction and then you are running that into a large rear cog turning a 27.5 inch wheel.
The gearing on this I would say is in the middle somewhere, the rear sprocket is like 60-70 tooth or something which I would have said is alright. Funny it accelerates better on the standard controller at 48V than at 48V with the phaserunner. Gearing is defo an issue but I lsp think the controller isn't able to lay down power from 0rpm like we need.
Is it a mototec?
My Chinese 48v 22 amp controller has a big load of torque at 10% throttle then drops and you get at it again at the top end it's abit annoying when trying to accelerate at about 10mph but apart from that it's not bad and gets upto 35mph
I love what you’re doing!
Great stuff Andy. Maybe see if you can source a larger front sprocket?
1 tooth in the front has same effect as 3 on the rear ..
He would need a smaller front sprocket not a larger one, he wants more torque not more speed.
@@mitchellwilson12354 Sorry, this is correct 🤦
Looking at those sprockets it would take around 7 extra teeth on the rear to be equivalent to 1 tooth less on the front. Looks like it has the smallest sprocket on the front. A custom rear sprocket could be laser cut. A cnc machined sprocket would be better but cost a lot more.
I've found a 10 tooth front sprocket, it might fit. However I will try a 150A controller today.😅
@@andykirby that'll do the job 😂
lol @ falling on the tiniest of bikes - as you have done battery + controller upgrade and this could be the ultimate present someones 10 year old - will you be keeping it long term or is the standover height too small?
Great work to get the app details side by side in the videos.
Thumbs up.
I love it, im keeping it! it's way too dangerous for a 10 year old 😅 and great for ripping around without bothering anyone.
how do you restore a lithium bike battery battery ?
LOL love it, 72V on that !! Debating buying a 72V upgrade for my surron but its £2600!!!! (72 volt battery 42AH & Bac8000)
Yeah big batteries and controllers are expensive!
What’s the story with the vapour, in stock soon?
Moto tech?
Algorithm 😆. Not a razor.
Went looking for videos 📹.
I have razor 650. Looking at your ebike.
Starting to want one of these you have fellow human. Have fun 👍 😊
Razor part 2 yipi
Cheeky falling off edit at the beginning 🤘🤣🤘
What's the chain rated up to? Would it ever rip
What is top speed mate
The motor is just too low power. That's a pretty small diameter compared to a bike hub motor (less leverage, less torque) and there's no telling how big the magnets are (the electric part is only half of it, the permanent magnets need to be chunky too). after the core gets saturated you're not getting anymore out of it. Those rather thin wires can't be helping either. Sprocket change should work.
Love what your doing with this I might have to make the kids one well that's what I'll tell the wife .
Please check my 134.4v ebike videos couple of tasters before I do a good video. 👍
Great content that bike can certainly shift
its magnetic field weakening... there is no flux weakening also no flux compositor
Yep Just Put A One Tooth Smaller Front Sprocket On To Make It A Real Croutch Rocket! 🤣
Flying now!
One of the issues looks like that the throttle doesn't get to 100% it look like it max out on 91%. Thats a easy 9% to win there
Yeah spotted that and adjusted it today, makes a bit of difference.👍🏼
You need to try a sur ron
like leaving a bt scanner in the car. drained my battery to 7 something volts with it sitting for a bit. slow charge brought her right back. Not bad for a battery that I was told needed replacing several years ago lol. those battery truck guys are so full of shit.
now i just carry a heavy ass hf SLA jumper box even though my battery gives me no trouble.
also putting some vasoline on the positive terminal seems to have put my drain to about nothing while keeping it free from corrosion. I think it messes with my multimeter a bit but its worth the trade off.
One day soon you will be on fast electric motorcycles guess you would need a motorcycle licence or cbt for 125 equvelant... dont think they will ever catch an R1 and fill up quicker than 4 mins for 150 mile range
Hy bro u need just a bigerr wheel tooht in the back
Really want an ebike now 😅
Feels what it might be like riding a speeder bike ... ;-)
Can I pay you to make me a light weight battery like that ?
Sorry, I don't build them, it takes so much time, try insat in the UK, they can build you one.
Its only saying 91% throttle maybe thats the problem
I noticed that and tweaked the throttle voltage today, makes a slight difference but not what I'm looking for.
Where did you buy it, how bout a link for it. Thanks.
Sanctimonious dog walkers never look happy.
I'm dog walker as well and I'm always friendly.
Hi Andy ...
Can you show watts?
The overlay of the bms at the end part of the Riding shows watts.
@@andykirby just saw it. Ty. Yeah note the low amps and watts at low rpm. Probably less than the previous controller.
You should compare the new and old controller with the bms.
I'm not sure if the old controller can handle 72V, I haven't opened it up yet 😉
@@andykirby ah yeah probably not. Well if your curious any cheap Chinese controller will do if your curious.
The motor can’t produce the torque u want.. I’d go brushless
It is a brushless motor, see the later video, we just needed to chuck some amps at it. It's a missile now!
@@andykirby I’ll give it a watch now.. great videos as always tho.. just wanna say you should be proud of where you have got to.. your a great influence to kids and with the effort you put in you deserve it 💯😎
The motor itself could have some kind of restrictor as its a kids bike to stop kids from flipping the bike, remember what happened to Simon Cowell, could you not fit a rear hub motor instead, also chains do suck up some of the power, direct drives are so much better
Simon Cowell was on a £20 000 ebike lol.. for that money I would want it to put me on my ass
Change the Motor and then y see more lower end power,, the rest is Okay,,,, 😎
😲 omg 😲
The motor will blow
It won't blow instantly, it will likely overheat. If it does I'll put a bigger one in!
Went to 69 amps
Hope my request can be granted??? I sent an email...
Watch what you are doing when you fall off brother I have just came off my 125 road bike and broke 3 bones in my wrist and one in my elbow at 5mph about to go around a corner
Lmao 😂 👌🏿👌🏿
First
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2nd ! Also known as first...loser lol