They use the same concept (solar panels providing shade) for certain plants! I think tomatoes are the first it was done with. The leaves and vines can spread out and get enough sunlight, while the panels keep the edible part in the shade! It increases the amount of tomatoes while using less water. So theoretically, I'd expect to see the same thing with this bike! Obviously you can go farther with electric, but with this bike you could ride even farther (sweat less, and not run out of water) due to the shade than you could ride if you were sweating in direct sunlight
From Denmark: Thank you so much for this excellent, very descriptive and instructive video. I have been following your Sun Tours and enjoyed them a lot. Congratulations for your endeavours. I am 80 years old and avid of long haul Biking and triking. No EL Assist. Until 4 years ago I used to ride a KOGA bike + a ZIFLEX trailer for my camping gear. Then I shifted an ICE SPRINT FS Trike 20" wheels + the ZIFLEX TRAILER in tow... Last year I triked from from Ebeltoft (Jutland-DK) to Frederikshavn (N-E coast of DK)-Ferry to Gothenburg- Triked to Stockholm -Ferry to Turku (Finland) -Triked to Helsinki - Ferry back to Stockholm -Triked along the East Coast of Sweden to Nynäshamn - Ferry to Visby/Island of Gotland - Ferry from Visby to Oskarshamn - Triking to Ystad (South of Sweden - Ferry to the Danish Bornholm Island - Ferry from Rønne (Bornholm) to Køge (South of Copenhagen) - Triking again and Ferrying to Falster-Loland-Langeland-Ærø and Back over Sjælland Odde to Ebeltoft. I carry 65 kg of gear + my own weight (starting with 112 kg, finishing at 94 kg...). I am thinking about getting EL Assist for a coming trip to Turkiye (Turkey). Will be immensely grateful for the names, eventually web sites of the companies that produced the parts for your rig. 🙏
@@libraryofpapel Thank you for the good words. The secret is NEVER stopping being active, having a POSITIVE attitude toward life and living in harmony with yourself and your surroundings, be it plants, animals or human beings. I have never owned a TV. I read a lot of books, do not spend time on social media, except Biking-Sailing-Triking-Blues Guitar channels to keep me updated. When I was 40, I stopped working, sold my apartment in Copenhagen and went on a 12 & 1/2 years trip, solo sailing the high seas with my 45 foot centre cockpit, cutter rigged sailing yacht So my advice is: Know what you want and be disciplined to get it, do not stop exercising, follow your heart and enjoy every moment of life... Tomorrow I am starting on my 5 months tour around Denmark, will be back at the end of October. All the best.🙏
it creates a massive amount of drag which more than cancels out any beneficial cooling effects. Guess the solar panel is pretty much non-negotiable for this rig though.
The drag will certainly cancel the _electrical_ efficiency gained from cooler temps, up until temps are high enough for the controller/battery/motor to be overheating... but the _rider_ might need the shade just to survive, in some conditions. A rider with heat stroke doesn't get far at all!
this is a super neat build. Having regenerative brakes on a bike is great I imagine. Less wear and tear and weather resistant braking + you get some of the effort back you put in that stupid hill. And the rest is awesome too
Seems like most builds are only able to capture a small fraction of the power that can be produced by a motor as regen; supercapacitors can capture that power, but they weigh almost as much as battery cells... 😢
I have 8.5kw of Solar panels on my house so I know a bit about panels. My best ever FTP was around 280W (and I can still remember the pain of my 20minute test at 301W). To think that 1 panel can put out my FTP power is quite extraordinary. To think that that power came all the way from the Sun, onto a couple of square metres of panel, is even more extraordinary.
A 280w solar panel will probably output around 1400wh on a nice day. Which is only 140w for 10 hours. Quite achievable for a human. But yes for instantaneous power it's much higher
Mech engineer here, no planetary gear hub will beat chain and casette. You have good 95% efficiency on single speed sprocket, then multiply that with hub efficiency with is 80% ish. Lets assume 85%, which its not. 0.95 x 0.85 equals 80.8% But I agree, machine is overall excellent and efficient, love it. Have a safe journey.
Check out the long blog post from rohloff on their measured efficiency. Of course you can't beat a very clean and oiled chain. But their point was that it won't be and the hub is protected. Thanks
German mech engineer here, really look into those measurements, you will be surprised how this competes to a derailleur system. It even beats the derailleur in gear 11 for obvious reasons. Straight chain line and no moving parts in the hub.
@@johgude5045 Just the man I want to speak to, my cars failing the MOT on exhaust emissions test, do you have any tips and tricks to get around this problem.
He said in the video gear 11 is direct drive (meaning the same as single speed.) ALL other gears besides 11 are between 85-90 ish efficient. So in practice he would use less efficient gears when necessary then go back to 11 ideally. I have the exact same setup on my recumbent with a mid drive. Gear 11 is where its at. So glad he called it out I was just going by feel.
ah ah that's a fantastic idea. I have a recumbent style tandem with a direct drive motor and the regen is much higher going downhill with 2 people rather than myself :)
A big limitation for regen is capturing the electricity produced, right? I've seen ebikes with supercapacitors added (which sadly adds weight), that captured a very good portion of their braking energy back to usable power... With larger\heavier rigs like this one, I wonder if they might be worth their weight, in high braking scenarios?
You should try just mounting a bike brake to the solar roof to keep it from spinning. Then you could get rid of that entire contraption and just have 1 brake cable going to maybe a disc brake mounted to the roof. The brake would of course need tk be inverted, but i think that would weight a lot less.
A disc brake would probably slip (they are designed to apply slip braking, not to lock); try a roller bearing brake instead: If the friction surfaces aren't hard enough, pressure upon the bearing(s) could create indents at high loads, but at least it won't slip around on you!
@@prophetzarquon1922 You would need a lot of force to overcome stiction. Think of the Momentum MV^2 of a moving bicycle with cyclist weight trying to overcome a a disc brake. It takes a massive amount of force. I’m sure the Mfr’s have the numbers. A worthwhile experiment though.
i know in the 90s in mid usa. colorado, i think parts of kansas. they used to do several hundred mile races with colleges building their own solar cars. were basically same thing as u have though. was just 1 seater box cars lol. but being a kid and middle no where especially pre internet. was big talk every year. we all go out to the 20-30 population town nearby that they drove by and or stopped at. most stopped there. plenty of room for their mechanics etc. great mid point to swap drivers, check things out quick and go again. i try looking info up on all that now its like it never happened.
Check out the solar cells Aptera is producing, they are made to be mobile. They were made to reduce the problem of shading on some cells, so the power output of the other cells are not reduced.
Congratulations Jack, all your previous experience with the China trip came in very handy. Great choice of panel with tilt mechanism and recumbent layout. I missed your race episodes and didn't want to jump in half way through, but will binge them when I get some time!
Thanks for sharing the technology! I have been following your travels since the first video you shared many years ago. A lot has happened since then... Interesting to see that you have now chosen to use a recumbent bike. Hope more people start to understand the benefits of these bikes. Congratulations for first place in the competition! Cheers!
@JackButlerVideos which exact model of rohloff was it? Maybe i will find slightly used. I saw there are some carbon belts that can be split to put on regular bikes. Mine is titanium frame so splitting can't be done easily (someone in poland does this on aluminium and steel bikes) I would take that 98% efficiency anyday for a bit extra weight.
Both are nice bikes, good suspension, power and speed. I pre-ordered the furious for the extras it had over the wired. Dual motors gives you a back up if one goes bad, plus extra traction if you need it. The shorter length of the furious keeps it from sticking out past the width of the vehicle when it is sitting on the bike rack. Thanks for pointing out the ability to spin out in the corners in awd if you're not used to it. Keep up the good reviews, look forward to more on these bikes.
That's a great set-up Jack and well done for developing it over time. I guess it's a continuous process. I would have thought that the solar panel would be susceptible to be affected by the wind, but i never saw you struggling for balance. So the question is whether to consider a larger panel (and maybe battery). The gearbox looks great! I'm loving your videos. Keep them coming!
It's not that bad in the wind. It feels like being on a road bike as they are light, i have a lot of mass. Of course with the panel flat. If you are full tilt, you can feel the wind. For a summer suntrip a larger panel would be good. Making the battery bigger would just add weight. I'm spending the energy as it comes in anyway
its nice you built all this. it seems alot to do while battling wind hills & overall driving. a 4 wheel or 3 would give more freedom to negotiate all the moving & monitoring. i guess its a race but.. i really used to enjoy watching solar car races way back when.
Loved 10:55 internal geared hubs and 7:15 mid drive vs hub drives. Vvolt mid drive e-bikes incorporate these two systems in their e-bikes and its gates belt driven!
That hub 😍 I want one, was thinking the other day solving the sun trip for around 25kph is correct. So glad to see how the bike and strategy side comes together.
I'm really happy with the hub. I think it's nice for the race. It seems a little bit annoying to service. I think you have to delace the wheel to change the bearings but no problem for one race.
woot, super. btw theoretically also wind sail powered bike would work. ie you can rise up the solar panel as a bike sail and tilt it. thats a motorbike, kinda heavy bicycle. if any. half off the bicycle weight with light construction. what punctures, with airless solid or flexible wheels. also consider top-cut tires with clips for fast swap.
Put a third solar crossbar in between the other two. Put a tilt-locking mechanism where it joins the center shaft. A simple spring-return release mechanism out on the right end of that crossbar will make it easy to reach up, release and adjust the angle. No cables, chains, gears, etc. Unless you lose too much mechanical advantage.
Wow, this really is one efficient piece of kit. Nice work Jack. I guess a very efficient mid drive would save some watts, but on the other hand brakes would suffer more and there'd be no regen and all wheel drive. Do you have a guesstimate of how many watts you've regened during the Sun Trip? A very light aero tail and front fairing is what also comes to mind for squeezing out the last efficiency. I guess cutting and gluing XPS foam to add a teardrop tail to the poles and anything else exposed to the wind would also work. Anything counts in such a long race where going 1% faster would save you almost 3 hours haha.
I'm not sure you could make a mid DriveMode to more efficient than a direct drive. On a very mountainous route, then yes. But on this trip we spent 3 or 4 days on the flat going down Morocco. Some of the best day. S I'm not a 100% sure, but I think I'd like 250 to 300 W/h of regen. When there is no sun. It can be a 100% of your energy for the day. Yes, I think a lightweight tail would be a fantastic upgrade. More cautious on the front, as it's hard to get it right and also you're affecting the cooling of the rider.
Amazing video Jack, great design. Sure you can always improve but what you have seems to be a perfect compromise between efficiency and simplicity. You don’t want parts which are too difficult to fix. Yeah I’m really impressed with the 100W power consumption for the motor, on my RH212 (direct hub drive), I would need to go to 150 or 200W to feel a “real” push, 100W seems to do close to nothing, at least at 25Km/h, but that might be due to motor “winding” speed (rpm / v). I’ll have to investigate. which Hub motor is it? Being relatively small, you didn’t get regen heat issues on the long slopes down? You mentioned 25Km/h, but on a standard flat road with no wind, were you not around 30-32? Did you have variable regen? No throttle for quick dog escapes? Last questions: the solar charge controller, which one was it? Thanks and very much looking forward to this Azub tour guide!!!
Yes, you don't feel much around 100 W, but it's there and your average speed will show it over the day. Over 30 km per hour is too fast. You are just fighting wind for no reason better to go slower And cycle slightly longer. Of course if you are not racing do whatever you like to do! My average. Speed for the full trip was twenty four point five or something. I should have mentioned the solar charge controller good point! It is a genasun
Trata de bajarle menos peso posible en todo para que no gaste mucha energia, la energia solar es una ayuda muy exepcional, sigue mejoraldo en los detalles
Didn't hesitate. I subscribed. Brilliant that you are having such fun. Thanks for sharing. I would have thought side fairings for the solar panels would have reduced drag and made the bike a little easier to handle. If you wanted to get an extra charge when stopping you can get rollup solar panels. You must have had a lot of courage to do that. I ride a vendetta cruzbike and I love the aerodynamics of that bike. Happy cruzing 💫
Ok I know minor detail but that rear mirror is the same one I got and after telling a lot of mirrors was the only good I found, that gave you a great view of everything behind you, while being one of the cheapest too. funny to see it here.
congrats on the win. 1 how many daytime hours did you spend for mechanical issues? 2 would spray cooling panels from the underside be a worthwhile thing to do? maybe 10 millilitres every minute, so 6 deciliters an hour? 3 is there no working repellent device for stray dogs? a mechanical device with blank explosive cartridge under a firing pin? i know you said you don't need advice for this, but then we don't have a proper solution either. there must be something that works, surely. 4 is that 406 or 451 on the 20" front wheel? i've seen some nice panaracer tyres for the latter, although only 28 mm wide. (451 is the bmx racing one, 406 is for the people doing tricks) 5 would having someone on the motorcyclist doing shopping for you hours ahead, while in constant communication, be outside the spirit of the rules of this being self-supported? this would make it possible to make every day 13 hours and 55 minutes long. no bathroom breaks, wizz out the side like grand tour racers do. 6 does anybody carry an entire spare wheel? mid drive motor, standard wheels, and maybe even making the front and rear wheel on the same rear hub like surly used to do on their ridiculous adventure bikes with a custom wide fork, would make it possible to just swap an entire wheel out and do puncture repair after hours. maybe even 2 spare wheels. if they're in a tight lycra bag they don't drag on very much and can be put in the wake of the bike, almost lengthening the tail end, which could even possibly improve aerodynamics?
I spent no time in a day repairing something. The panels are already closer to ambient air temperature than usual beacuse of the air cooling of the bike moving forward. You can't carry explosives across an international border into Morocco. 406mm is the wheel size. You are not permitted to have someone follow you on the trip, but for sure that would be faster. I'm not sure it would be worth the weight for me. Most people want to use hubs motors and not as light as mine so you would be carrying and extra 4 to 6kg that you probably wouldn't use. Nice ideas thanks a lot for commenting!
again a great video Jack. Thx you so much. A lot of interresting things to learn... I'm building my 1st solar bike to be able to make longer trips. Most probably ready by end of June. Your bike really looks incredible. Thx Seb
I think I saw you some weeks ago on a back road in Portugal. There was another biker with you, you were heading south. Filmed you while overtaking you, you felt so relaxed going down hill :)
Thanks for the video Jack. I’ve followed you from the start and glad you came across the line first. I was questioning throughout a few things, I’m guessing the system has the ability to charge and discharge (ie power the motor) at the same time? Also I was thinking, is he saving his battery power for hills or is the motor constantly ’ticking over’? You must have been keeping an eye on the next days weather to be confident that you can use ‘todays’ power knowing that you can/cant recharge the next day. Your determination (physical and mental) combined with your ability to estimate power conservation/ consumption vs weather and terrain clearly paid off. Once again, massive congratulations Jack. Look forward to the Czech video! Gareth
Yes exactly. Think of the battery like a bucket of water with energy flowing in and out at different speeds. I would like to make a video showing this at some point. Yea it's a game of prediction like you said. I love it, it's quite fun. Don't forget it's just a bike so it doesn't actually matter if i run out of energy, I'm not pushing any more or less with o witout the motor. My average speed is just less without
I rode my bike a couple years back in April to try to get some traction for my distributed protocol (still working on it!). I ended up going from San Antonio to Albuquerque before running out of $$$. In my limited experience, in Texas and New Mexico I would say that the sun was definitely the most dangerous part...well that and the damn semis transporting windmill blades (they're insanely big and suck your bike sideways). So I love the idea of the solar panel for shade. I love this whole idea really and if I had money I'd definitely be cleaning up this design to make it a "real" product. In fact the distributed protocol is for semantic versioning (it's very similar to git under the hood, but a more powerful generalized design), so we could dogfood the protocol to version control + evolve the design, similar to how people collaborate on open source software.
Your prior bike used a BBSHD. Now that you used a direct hub motor, which did you prefer? Which did you find as more efficient? Also was the 310W solar panel enough to stay self sufficient?
My advice is probably not that useful as im strong enough to ride the bike without the motor. If you are relying on the motor then BBSHD is probably better as you go up anything with no overheating.
Nice set up. I imagine that a Cruzbike with an UL trailer/solar panel might work better (more aerodynamic, and the Cruzbike has more efficient torque transfer), though the downside would be that you don't get that nice shade. As for the "trailer", it could be something like foam reinforced with S glass fiberglass cloth and lamination epoxy, or the like.
I'm thinking of saving for a while a doing a full gin build. I like the little things they make that can make a huge difference. I wonder do they still make hookworm tires, there good. actually the Maxxis Velocita EXO would be good if they make it in your size, Maxxis is affordable, but they make some great tires.
100 EUR for a 310W flexible panel! I'm very jealous - in the US similar products, if you can find them, are around 1,000 USD. (200W and below panels are more reasonable, I think the big jump is due to freight and warehousing costs, as well as tariffs on Chinese-manufactured panels.)
If you built a simple tail-sail in the back, i wonder how much would it effect..you know most of the time there is wind one way or another and it would def. Help in some cases
Not too unick bike. In Kazakhstan is one similar. Александр Велосипетый youtube channel. But he had a middrive engine, not inside the wheel. Because you not rotate motor when using pedals and it easier to ride.
It'd be cool if the chinese came up with some aerofairing 5k€ bike with solar plastered all over it. Could easily do like 40km/h with solar alone. Might not even make sense to add pedaling drivetrain as that would affect aero too much.
Congratulations Jack!!, I have followed the Sun Trip 2024 and it has been exciting. I would like to know how much energy in kWh you have recharged with the module during the entire trip, thank you.The bike setup is very good.
Good design concepts ... !!! Erm as far as video goes ... invest in a bluetooth lapel mic , as when you are far from mic on camera , your audio is hard to understand . Front mudguard , wires getting wet ... mudguard causing wind drag and hard to access for punctures .... Why not get something of a U shape ,but face towrds wires , so wind can flow over , and the u channel can deflect water ,coming from front wheel ????? Which could also be attached to wired assembly
Very interesting. However, I am uncertain if directing the panel helps really so much. Having it horizontal all the time gives already 85% of the maximal collection of sun energy (calculated for a all year round solar system, in summertime probably more). This would also save considerable weight and costs and result in less mechanical failures. However, during winter a tilting system is probably considerably better.
2 things made the tilting worth it for me on this sun trip., it's earlier in the year like you said. And it's also a North to South sun trip for the first time.
Cool video. I recently did a 8 day tour about 30% gravel roads and by day 7 I was so tired. Day 8 I could only get like 125bpm, I couldn't push myself any harder it was really weird. What kind of training did you do for the suntrip?
Yes without being trained or pacing properly thats guaranteed to happen. I trained for six months working up to around 20 hours of cycling a week. Mostly zone 2 teaining and some intervals.
I am always thinking why car company can't make such a car which roof is a solar plate...who produce electricity for a running car???? But you did such a great thing 😮
They can, but a few hundred Watts is worth diddly squat for something as wide & heavy as a car. A typical car needs thousands of Watts just to stay above 15 Km/H. Even 1KW-peak panels would still take >5 days to recharge a small EV. The options for solar cars are: Optimize the car for 15 Km/H; Or, make the car _much_ more slender _and_ lighter than usual, without sacrificing solar area (like solar race cars, which are not very safe, nor practical for daily driving); Or, tow a very long slender trailer of solar panels behind a half-lane wide "car". Automobiles are the least energy & space efficient of any common form of transit. To quote a proponent of laying rail everywhere we pave roads: "Better cars, are still worse than trains." Individual transit doesn't get anywhere efficiently, unless it's _'smol'._
It feels similar to a roadbike with deep section wheels in the wind. The bike is heavy, so resists being moved. But for sure it's annoying, like on a road bike
Interesting video and build. I've read that solar panels make better power when kept cool, so just wanted to suggest maybe a misting system to mist water onto the panel? I know nothing about solar though.. Also, wanted to suggest the Berd flexible spokes - maybe still too pricey but they look good and recently won on a mountain bike downhill race..
Nice setup and very interesting. What kind of distance per day are you doing ? How much of that is on electric power ? I’d love to do something like this. Also do you get chafing anywhere (or did you and you resolved it) ?
Very nice piece of work. Some nifty engineering, and your custom parts seem to have worked out very nicely. I think I'd have gone for a front mudguard. You have an awful lot of crap on that bike already - even with a race mentality I can't see the extra drag from a mudguard being significant in comparison to all the wires and gubbins, and firing all the water straight at your battery just seems like a bad plan. On the other hand - it worked OK for you, so I guess you are right and I am wrong, at least so far...And it's probably mostly dry on such a trip so you can get away with it in summer. It seems like cross-winds could be an issue with that dirty-great sail high-up. Are they? I guess you just level it up so there is not too much area presented? Presumably it would be worth spending a bit more money on panel efficiency? Your area is fundamentally limited and the rest of the machine has cost several grand, so spending £500 on the finest 300W panel money can buy seems like it would be a useful optimisation. I'll see if I can find your video on the numbers as that is indeed very interesting to me.
Yea a mudguard wouldn't have been a bad idea. Everything was mostly sponsored so to me it didn't cost as much as it would seem. Spending another 500 would be a significant proportion of total spent. Wind is fine for me, the bike is heavy and with the panel flat feels like a roadbike in strong wind.
Best thing about the solar panel is it gives you a very needed shade
Yes indeed !!!
Yea really!!
I was thinking exactly the same!
They use the same concept (solar panels providing shade) for certain plants! I think tomatoes are the first it was done with. The leaves and vines can spread out and get enough sunlight, while the panels keep the edible part in the shade! It increases the amount of tomatoes while using less water.
So theoretically, I'd expect to see the same thing with this bike! Obviously you can go farther with electric, but with this bike you could ride even farther (sweat less, and not run out of water) due to the shade than you could ride if you were sweating in direct sunlight
You sound like someone who has never grown tomatoes before @@cyleleghorn246
From Denmark: Thank you so much for this excellent, very descriptive and instructive video. I have been following your Sun Tours and enjoyed them a lot. Congratulations for your endeavours. I am 80 years old and avid of long haul Biking and triking. No EL Assist. Until 4 years ago I used to ride a KOGA bike + a ZIFLEX trailer for my camping gear. Then I shifted an ICE SPRINT FS Trike 20" wheels + the ZIFLEX TRAILER in tow... Last year I triked from from Ebeltoft (Jutland-DK) to Frederikshavn (N-E coast of DK)-Ferry to Gothenburg- Triked to Stockholm -Ferry to Turku (Finland) -Triked to Helsinki - Ferry back to Stockholm -Triked along the East Coast of Sweden to Nynäshamn - Ferry to Visby/Island of Gotland - Ferry from Visby to Oskarshamn - Triking to Ystad (South of Sweden - Ferry to the Danish Bornholm Island - Ferry from Rønne (Bornholm) to Køge (South of Copenhagen) - Triking again and Ferrying to Falster-Loland-Langeland-Ærø and Back over Sjælland Odde to Ebeltoft. I carry 65 kg of gear + my own weight (starting with 112 kg, finishing at 94 kg...). I am thinking about getting EL Assist for a coming trip to Turkiye (Turkey). Will be immensely grateful for the names, eventually web sites of the companies that produced the parts for your rig. 🙏
Sounds like a mega trip! The motor is made by crystallite. The battery by EM3EV the controller by grintech. And thanks for watching!
What a legend you are Sir, I hope to be that active in my 80’s.
@@libraryofpapel Thank you for the good words. The secret is NEVER stopping being active, having a POSITIVE attitude toward life and living in harmony with yourself and your surroundings, be it plants, animals or human beings. I have never owned a TV. I read a lot of books, do not spend time on social media, except Biking-Sailing-Triking-Blues Guitar channels to keep me updated. When I was 40, I stopped working, sold my apartment in Copenhagen and went on a 12 & 1/2 years trip, solo sailing the high seas with my 45 foot centre cockpit, cutter rigged sailing yacht So my advice is: Know what you want and be disciplined to get it, do not stop exercising, follow your heart and enjoy every moment of life... Tomorrow I am starting on my 5 months tour around Denmark, will be back at the end of October. All the best.🙏
Respekt !
@@ebikeuzerine296 🙏🙏🙏 Wish you all the best in life.
It gives you some shade aswell which is an added bonus 👌
Yes! A great bonus!
that alone is a good feature haha
it creates a massive amount of drag which more than cancels out any beneficial cooling effects. Guess the solar panel is pretty much non-negotiable for this rig though.
The drag will certainly cancel the _electrical_ efficiency gained from cooler temps, up until temps are high enough for the controller/battery/motor to be overheating... but the _rider_ might need the shade just to survive, in some conditions. A rider with heat stroke doesn't get far at all!
this is a super neat build. Having regenerative brakes on a bike is great I imagine. Less wear and tear and weather resistant braking + you get some of the effort back you put in that stupid hill. And the rest is awesome too
Seems like most builds are only able to capture a small fraction of the power that can be produced by a motor as regen; supercapacitors can capture that power, but they weigh almost as much as battery cells... 😢
I have 8.5kw of Solar panels on my house so I know a bit about panels.
My best ever FTP was around 280W (and I can still remember the pain of my 20minute test at 301W).
To think that 1 panel can put out my FTP power is quite extraordinary. To think that that power came all the way from the Sun, onto a couple of square metres of panel, is even more extraordinary.
You would have a much higher voltage. Each panel would be equal or better so don’t worry. Cheers
A 280w solar panel will probably output around 1400wh on a nice day. Which is only 140w for 10 hours. Quite achievable for a human. But yes for instantaneous power it's much higher
If you add your own 140W e.g. 280W in total to that though... With a road race bike setup can do almost 40km/h average speed with such power
@@rkan2 definitely! But the panel will add drag and weight. And the bike wouldn't be strong e ough for suntrip luggage
Thanks for the tour of your bike, Jack. I was so interested in the bits and pieces you shared before, I'm glad to see it all in one piece.
All of you people of the sun trip inspire me so much ;-)
Thanks fot that focus on the technical aspects of the bike !!!
Congrats on the trip
That's an incredible piece of engineering. A credit to you. Wow! 😊
Mech engineer here, no planetary gear hub will beat chain and casette.
You have good 95% efficiency on single speed sprocket, then multiply that with hub efficiency with is 80% ish.
Lets assume 85%, which its not.
0.95 x 0.85 equals 80.8%
But I agree, machine is overall excellent and efficient, love it. Have a safe journey.
Check out the long blog post from rohloff on their measured efficiency. Of course you can't beat a very clean and oiled chain. But their point was that it won't be and the hub is protected. Thanks
German mech engineer here, really look into those measurements, you will be surprised how this competes to a derailleur system. It even beats the derailleur in gear 11 for obvious reasons. Straight chain line and no moving parts in the hub.
Well, INEOS rode Classified hub in the time trials so it must be quite efficient, in fact 99% according to Classified's peer reviewed paper.
@@johgude5045 Just the man I want to speak to, my cars failing the MOT on exhaust emissions test, do you have any tips and tricks to get around this problem.
He said in the video gear 11 is direct drive (meaning the same as single speed.) ALL other gears besides 11 are between 85-90 ish efficient. So in practice he would use less efficient gears when necessary then go back to 11 ideally. I have the exact same setup on my recumbent with a mid drive. Gear 11 is where its at. So glad he called it out I was just going by feel.
Congrats on your victory. Great job with your engineering on your solar bike. Enjoy your videos. Thanks from Seattle.
Really interesting thanks for the walkthrough. I like the tilting mechanism with brake lever, very elegant!
Thank you for your time and effort to make this video and share your knowledge with us. Greetings from Croatia.
When you got to the top of the mountain, you should have filled up your bags with some rocks to get some extra regen 🤣🤣
Not a bad idea! I did the maths on it once and unfortunately it doesn't add that much.
ah ah that's a fantastic idea. I have a recumbent style tandem with a direct drive motor and the regen is much higher going downhill with 2 people rather than myself :)
A big limitation for regen is capturing the electricity produced, right? I've seen ebikes with supercapacitors added (which sadly adds weight), that captured a very good portion of their braking energy back to usable power... With larger\heavier rigs like this one, I wonder if they might be worth their weight, in high braking scenarios?
Well Done Jack. I followed the 24 trip - each morning checking in to see how you were progressing was a highlight in my morning !
You should try just mounting a bike brake to the solar roof to keep it from spinning. Then you could get rid of that entire contraption and just have 1 brake cable going to maybe a disc brake mounted to the roof. The brake would of course need tk be inverted, but i think that would weight a lot less.
Yes i thought about this, i didn't have time to experiment with it this time unfortunately. The cool thing as well is stepless angles!
A disc brake would probably slip (they are designed to apply slip braking, not to lock); try a roller bearing brake instead: If the friction surfaces aren't hard enough, pressure upon the bearing(s) could create indents at high loads, but at least it won't slip around on you!
@@prophetzarquon1922 You would need a lot of force to overcome stiction. Think of the Momentum MV^2 of a moving bicycle with cyclist weight trying to overcome a a disc brake. It takes a massive amount of force. I’m sure the Mfr’s have the numbers. A worthwhile experiment though.
@@pentachronic It's not great. Like I said, bicycle brakes are _designed_ to slip.
Simple and impressive package. Good engineering, I must say!
Thank you very much! It worked out well for me.
Congratulations on your solar bike design and win of the Sun Trip 2024.
i know in the 90s in mid usa. colorado, i think parts of kansas. they used to do several hundred mile races with colleges building their own solar cars. were basically same thing as u have though. was just 1 seater box cars lol.
but being a kid and middle no where especially pre internet. was big talk every year. we all go out to the 20-30 population town nearby that they drove by and or stopped at. most stopped there. plenty of room for their mechanics etc. great mid point to swap drivers, check things out quick and go again.
i try looking info up on all that now its like it never happened.
Cool story! All that lost knowledge and experiences, a shame! It pushes you into wanting to be an archivist
Check out the solar cells Aptera is producing, they are made to be mobile. They were made to reduce the problem of shading on some cells, so the power output of the other cells are not reduced.
Congratulations Jack, all your previous experience with the China trip came in very handy. Great choice of panel with tilt mechanism and recumbent layout.
I missed your race episodes and didn't want to jump in half way through, but will binge them when I get some time!
Thanks for sharing the technology! I have been following your travels since the first video you shared many years ago. A lot has happened since then... Interesting to see that you have now chosen to use a recumbent bike. Hope more people start to understand the benefits of these bikes. Congratulations for first place in the competition! Cheers!
Always love your videos on your solar bike builds, there's never enough info on building solar e-bikes
Awesome rig!!!
I got an azub 6 recently and was v happy to notice early on in the video that thats what youve got.
Awesome setup, i hope to participate one day, didnt know about gear 11 on rohloff, pretty smart to optimize for that specific gear
Look on the rolhoff website. They have a really cool chart. That shows the measured efficiency of each gear and a really interesting blog post.
@JackButlerVideos which exact model of rohloff was it? Maybe i will find slightly used. I saw there are some carbon belts that can be split to put on regular bikes. Mine is titanium frame so splitting can't be done easily (someone in poland does this on aluminium and steel bikes) I would take that 98% efficiency anyday for a bit extra weight.
Just randomly stumbled over this and absolutely got my brains blasted. What a wet dream of an ebike.
Both are nice bikes, good suspension, power and speed. I pre-ordered the furious for the extras it had over the wired. Dual motors gives you a back up if one goes bad, plus extra traction if you need it. The shorter length of the furious keeps it from sticking out past the width of the vehicle when it is sitting on the bike rack. Thanks for pointing out the ability to spin out in the corners in awd if you're not used to it. Keep up the good reviews, look forward to more on these bikes.
That's a great set-up Jack and well done for developing it over time. I guess it's a continuous process. I would have thought that the solar panel would be susceptible to be affected by the wind, but i never saw you struggling for balance. So the question is whether to consider a larger panel (and maybe battery). The gearbox looks great! I'm loving your videos. Keep them coming!
It's not that bad in the wind. It feels like being on a road bike as they are light, i have a lot of mass. Of course with the panel flat. If you are full tilt, you can feel the wind. For a summer suntrip a larger panel would be good. Making the battery bigger would just add weight. I'm spending the energy as it comes in anyway
A solar trailer, with 2 panels in a pyramid design would be cool
This is smart , touring, while exercising with the most environmentally friendly vehicle
Pretty neat! I would sleep during the day and travel at night.🤔👍🇨🇦
Have an azub max myself. Absolutely love it.
I like the tilting mechanism. I did my own solar tilting system for my solar powered kayak. It is tilted by a cable operated linear actuator I made.
its nice you built all this. it seems alot to do while battling wind hills & overall driving. a 4 wheel or 3 would give more freedom to negotiate all the moving & monitoring. i guess its a race but..
i really used to enjoy watching solar car races way back when.
Yes three wheels would be very convenient. But as you said, it's a race
Loved 10:55 internal geared hubs and 7:15 mid drive vs hub drives. Vvolt mid drive e-bikes incorporate these two systems in their e-bikes and its gates belt driven!
That hub 😍 I want one, was thinking the other day solving the sun trip for around 25kph is correct. So glad to see how the bike and strategy side comes together.
I'm really happy with the hub. I think it's nice for the race. It seems a little bit annoying to service. I think you have to delace the wheel to change the bearings but no problem for one race.
Nice Hubby
fascinating about the rear tire.
You really have an independent life and love what you have, OK, persevere, wish you success
Really interesting. Thanks for going through that. I might one day get a recumbent.
Thanks to you for watching! It was quite interesting for me too, to take a step back and think about it all again like at the beginning.
woot, super. btw theoretically also wind sail powered bike would work. ie you can rise up the solar panel as a bike sail and tilt it. thats a motorbike, kinda heavy bicycle. if any. half off the bicycle weight with light construction. what punctures, with airless solid or flexible wheels. also consider top-cut tires with clips for fast swap.
Put a third solar crossbar in between the other two. Put a tilt-locking mechanism where it joins the center shaft. A simple spring-return release mechanism out on the right end of that crossbar will make it easy to reach up, release and adjust the angle. No cables, chains, gears, etc. Unless you lose too much mechanical advantage.
This is the future man
Wow, this really is one efficient piece of kit. Nice work Jack.
I guess a very efficient mid drive would save some watts, but on the other hand brakes would suffer more and there'd be no regen and all wheel drive.
Do you have a guesstimate of how many watts you've regened during the Sun Trip?
A very light aero tail and front fairing is what also comes to mind for squeezing out the last efficiency.
I guess cutting and gluing XPS foam to add a teardrop tail to the poles and anything else exposed to the wind would also work. Anything counts in such a long race where going 1% faster would save you almost 3 hours haha.
I'm not sure you could make a mid DriveMode to more efficient than a direct drive. On a very mountainous route, then yes. But on this trip we spent 3 or 4 days on the flat going down Morocco. Some of the best day.
S I'm not a 100% sure, but I think I'd like 250 to 300 W/h of regen. When there is no sun.
It can be a 100% of your energy for the day. Yes, I think a lightweight tail would be a fantastic upgrade. More cautious on the front, as it's hard to get it right and also you're affecting the cooling of the rider.
The enhanced aerodynamic tail sounds great!
The Grin all axle front motor, as you said, is likely an excellent upgrade also :-)
Great video and such a exciting tour and 25 km is a good speed.😊
some design improvement and this will be a great invention of an electric vehicle.
Nice to see the regen motor setup. Got to save a bit of energy.
Amazing video Jack, great design. Sure you can always improve but what you have seems to be a perfect compromise between efficiency and simplicity. You don’t want parts which are too difficult to fix.
Yeah I’m really impressed with the 100W power consumption for the motor, on my RH212 (direct hub drive), I would need to go to 150 or 200W to feel a “real” push, 100W seems to do close to nothing, at least at 25Km/h, but that might be due to motor “winding” speed (rpm / v). I’ll have to investigate.
which Hub motor is it? Being relatively small, you didn’t get regen heat issues on the long slopes down?
You mentioned 25Km/h, but on a standard flat road with no wind, were you not around 30-32?
Did you have variable regen? No throttle for quick dog escapes?
Last questions: the solar charge controller, which one was it?
Thanks and very much looking forward to this Azub tour guide!!!
Yes, you don't feel much around 100 W, but it's there and your average speed will show it over the day. Over 30 km per hour is too fast. You are just fighting wind for no reason better to go slower And cycle slightly longer. Of course if you are not racing do whatever you like to do! My average.
Speed for the full trip was twenty four point five or something. I should have mentioned the solar charge controller good point! It is a genasun
Trata de bajarle menos peso posible en todo para que no gaste mucha energia, la energia solar es una ayuda muy exepcional, sigue mejoraldo en los detalles
Didn't hesitate. I subscribed. Brilliant that you are having such fun. Thanks for sharing. I would have thought side fairings for the solar panels would have reduced drag and made the bike a little easier to handle. If you wanted to get an extra charge when stopping you can get rollup solar panels. You must have had a lot of courage to do that. I ride a vendetta cruzbike and I love the aerodynamics of that bike. Happy cruzing 💫
Fascinating. A very cool touring bike.
Ok I know minor detail but that rear mirror is the same one I got and after telling a lot of mirrors was the only good I found, that gave you a great view of everything behind you, while being one of the cheapest too. funny to see it here.
Yea decathlon mirror works great!
Thanks, that is an amazing bike.
Cheers Jack, perhaps you could do a cost video as it's something I would love to do. Links to how to get started.
Good idea. Would be hard for me to do as i uave accumulated things over time. Let's see
Thank you for the tour of you bike. Nice job! 👍
congrats on the win.
1 how many daytime hours did you spend for mechanical issues?
2 would spray cooling panels from the underside be a worthwhile thing to do? maybe 10 millilitres every minute, so 6 deciliters an hour?
3 is there no working repellent device for stray dogs? a mechanical device with blank explosive cartridge under a firing pin? i know you said you don't need advice for this, but then we don't have a proper solution either. there must be something that works, surely.
4 is that 406 or 451 on the 20" front wheel? i've seen some nice panaracer tyres for the latter, although only 28 mm wide. (451 is the bmx racing one, 406 is for the people doing tricks)
5 would having someone on the motorcyclist doing shopping for you hours ahead, while in constant communication, be outside the spirit of the rules of this being self-supported? this would make it possible to make every day 13 hours and 55 minutes long. no bathroom breaks, wizz out the side like grand tour racers do.
6 does anybody carry an entire spare wheel? mid drive motor, standard wheels, and maybe even making the front and rear wheel on the same rear hub like surly used to do on their ridiculous adventure bikes with a custom wide fork, would make it possible to just swap an entire wheel out and do puncture repair after hours. maybe even 2 spare wheels. if they're in a tight lycra bag they don't drag on very much and can be put in the wake of the bike, almost lengthening the tail end, which could even possibly improve aerodynamics?
I spent no time in a day repairing something. The panels are already closer to ambient air temperature than usual beacuse of the air cooling of the bike moving forward. You can't carry explosives across an international border into Morocco. 406mm is the wheel size. You are not permitted to have someone follow you on the trip, but for sure that would be faster. I'm not sure it would be worth the weight for me. Most people want to use hubs motors and not as light as mine so you would be carrying and extra 4 to 6kg that you probably wouldn't use. Nice ideas thanks a lot for commenting!
again a great video Jack. Thx you so much. A lot of interresting things to learn...
I'm building my 1st solar bike to be able to make longer trips. Most probably ready by end of June.
Your bike really looks incredible.
Thx
Seb
I think I saw you some weeks ago on a back road in Portugal. There was another biker with you, you were heading south. Filmed you while overtaking you, you felt so relaxed going down hill :)
Cool! I think that must have been one of the chezch team!
Thanks for the video Jack. I’ve followed you from the start and glad you came across the line first.
I was questioning throughout a few things, I’m guessing the system has the ability to charge and discharge (ie power the motor) at the same time?
Also I was thinking, is he saving his battery power for hills or is the motor constantly ’ticking over’?
You must have been keeping an eye on the next days weather to be confident that you can use ‘todays’ power knowing that you can/cant recharge the next day.
Your determination (physical and mental) combined with your ability to estimate power conservation/ consumption vs weather and terrain clearly paid off.
Once again, massive congratulations Jack. Look forward to the Czech video!
Gareth
Yes exactly. Think of the battery like a bucket of water with energy flowing in and out at different speeds. I would like to make a video showing this at some point. Yea it's a game of prediction like you said. I love it, it's quite fun. Don't forget it's just a bike so it doesn't actually matter if i run out of energy, I'm not pushing any more or less with o witout the motor. My average speed is just less without
I rode my bike a couple years back in April to try to get some traction for my distributed protocol (still working on it!). I ended up going from San Antonio to Albuquerque before running out of $$$. In my limited experience, in Texas and New Mexico I would say that the sun was definitely the most dangerous part...well that and the damn semis transporting windmill blades (they're insanely big and suck your bike sideways). So I love the idea of the solar panel for shade. I love this whole idea really and if I had money I'd definitely be cleaning up this design to make it a "real" product. In fact the distributed protocol is for semantic versioning (it's very similar to git under the hood, but a more powerful generalized design), so we could dogfood the protocol to version control + evolve the design, similar to how people collaborate on open source software.
*Dream bike for Indians* 🤩🤩👌
Man you really inspire my channel, got 423 subscribers in 1 weeek
Your prior bike used a BBSHD. Now that you used a direct hub motor, which did you prefer? Which did you find as more efficient? Also was the 310W solar panel enough to stay self sufficient?
My advice is probably not that useful as im strong enough to ride the bike without the motor. If you are relying on the motor then BBSHD is probably better as you go up anything with no overheating.
Nice set up.
I imagine that a Cruzbike with an UL trailer/solar panel might work better (more aerodynamic, and the Cruzbike has more efficient torque transfer), though the downside would be that you don't get that nice shade.
As for the "trailer", it could be something like foam reinforced with S glass fiberglass cloth and lamination epoxy, or the like.
Cool build.
This is so incredibly cool.
I'm thinking of saving for a while a doing a full gin build. I like the little things they make that can make a huge difference. I wonder do they still make hookworm tires, there good. actually the Maxxis Velocita EXO would be good if they make it in your size, Maxxis is affordable, but they make some great tires.
100 EUR for a 310W flexible panel! I'm very jealous - in the US similar products, if you can find them, are around 1,000 USD. (200W and below panels are more reasonable, I think the big jump is due to freight and warehousing costs, as well as tariffs on Chinese-manufactured panels.)
Woah that's insane!!
@@JackButlerVideos Do you have a link to the panel? I can't seem to find it. Thanks!
@@JackButlerVideos Oh and a link to the company that custom made the parts (like for supporting the panel?) would be awesome too, thanks!
From India.........🎉
Solar sensor please atteched.. automatically rotated..sun side😊😊🎉🎉
If you built a simple tail-sail in the back, i wonder how much would it effect..you know most of the time there is wind one way or another and it would def. Help in some cases
VERY informative and interesting !!
Not too unick bike. In Kazakhstan is one similar. Александр Велосипетый youtube channel. But he had a middrive engine, not inside the wheel. Because you not rotate motor when using pedals and it easier to ride.
This needs to be a kickstarted project
It'd be cool if the chinese came up with some aerofairing 5k€ bike with solar plastered all over it. Could easily do like 40km/h with solar alone. Might not even make sense to add pedaling drivetrain as that would affect aero too much.
Olá, vim pela curiosidade e pelo ciclismo, estou curioso sobre esta bicicleta, incrível!
Thanks for this. Looking forward to the next video on the technical side eg how many Wh you got out of that panel each day on average etc
I need to check, i hope to make a video about it soon. Thanks!
Pretty interesting but I sure wouldn't want to ride that in a crosswind!
It's fine for me in the wind. Feels like a road bike with deep wheels
Congratulations Jack!!, I have followed the Sun Trip 2024 and it has been exciting. I would like to know how much energy in kWh you have recharged with the module during the entire trip, thank you.The bike setup is very good.
Yes, I need to check this.I should make another video with these kind of numbers.
Thanks Jack. Capacity of the battery? Wh?
1000wh. Good point
Good design concepts ... !!! Erm as far as video goes ... invest in a bluetooth lapel mic , as when you are far from mic on camera , your audio is hard to understand .
Front mudguard , wires getting wet ... mudguard causing wind drag and hard to access for punctures ....
Why not get something of a U shape ,but face towrds wires , so wind can flow over , and the u channel can deflect water ,coming from front wheel ?????
Which could also be attached to wired assembly
Yes i need a new microphone, mine broke on the first day. Not a bad idea for the mud guard. Thanks
You should add more solar panels!
Always!
Excellent explanation.
Keep it coming 🌈🎈🇺🇸
Very interesting. However, I am uncertain if directing the panel helps really so much. Having it horizontal all the time gives already 85% of the maximal collection of sun energy (calculated for a all year round solar system, in summertime probably more). This would also save considerable weight and costs and result in less mechanical failures. However, during winter a tilting system is probably considerably better.
2 things made the tilting worth it for me on this sun trip., it's earlier in the year like you said. And it's also a North to South sun trip for the first time.
@@JackButlerVideos Ok, I understand. What's the maximal velocity the motor supports? 25km/h or faster than that?
Cool video. I recently did a 8 day tour about 30% gravel roads and by day 7 I was so tired. Day 8 I could only get like 125bpm, I couldn't push myself any harder it was really weird. What kind of training did you do for the suntrip?
Yes without being trained or pacing properly thats guaranteed to happen. I trained for six months working up to around 20 hours of cycling a week. Mostly zone 2 teaining and some intervals.
Cara parabéns sempre tive a vontade de fazer isso .
I am always thinking why car company can't make such a car which roof is a solar plate...who produce electricity for a running car???? But you did such a great thing 😮
They can, but a few hundred Watts is worth diddly squat for something as wide & heavy as a car. A typical car needs thousands of Watts just to stay above 15 Km/H. Even 1KW-peak panels would still take >5 days to recharge a small EV.
The options for solar cars are:
Optimize the car for 15 Km/H;
Or, make the car _much_ more slender _and_ lighter than usual, without sacrificing solar area (like solar race cars, which are not very safe, nor practical for daily driving);
Or, tow a very long slender trailer of solar panels behind a half-lane wide "car".
Automobiles are the least energy & space efficient of any common form of transit. To quote a proponent of laying rail everywhere we pave roads: "Better cars, are still worse than trains."
Individual transit doesn't get anywhere efficiently, unless it's _'smol'._
Excellent looking bike. Just one question; does the solar panel act like a sail in moderate to strong breezes, or can it be compensated for?
It's not bad, feels like riding a light road bike in the wind
I am sure there still are tubeless bike tires that are available?
Not in these non standard sizes unfortunately and meet other criteria
Nice work dude
Good luck on a windy day
It feels similar to a roadbike with deep section wheels in the wind. The bike is heavy, so resists being moved. But for sure it's annoying, like on a road bike
sorry if i missed this. what kind of speed and miles do you get out of it?
Interesting video and build. I've read that solar panels make better power when kept cool, so just wanted to suggest maybe a misting system to mist water onto the panel? I know nothing about solar though.. Also, wanted to suggest the Berd flexible spokes - maybe still too pricey but they look good and recently won on a mountain bike downhill race..
Yes it's true. The air cooling from the bike moving does this, that's why we can get great solar production
that's a very interesting video bike idea thank you
Nice setup and very interesting. What kind of distance per day are you doing ? How much of that is on electric power ? I’d love to do something like this. Also do you get chafing anywhere (or did you and you resolved it) ?
I saw you in Rabat ❤
Telemetry would be nice to see: Input from solar, consumption of motor, power from pedals, speed, battery capacity,...
Good Job
excellent build
Very nice piece of work. Some nifty engineering, and your custom parts seem to have worked out very nicely.
I think I'd have gone for a front mudguard. You have an awful lot of crap on that bike already - even with a race mentality I can't see the extra drag from a mudguard being significant in comparison to all the wires and gubbins, and firing all the water straight at your battery just seems like a bad plan. On the other hand - it worked OK for you, so I guess you are right and I am wrong, at least so far...And it's probably mostly dry on such a trip so you can get away with it in summer.
It seems like cross-winds could be an issue with that dirty-great sail high-up. Are they? I guess you just level it up so there is not too much area presented?
Presumably it would be worth spending a bit more money on panel efficiency? Your area is fundamentally limited and the rest of the machine has cost several grand, so spending £500 on the finest 300W panel money can buy seems like it would be a useful optimisation. I'll see if I can find your video on the numbers as that is indeed very interesting to me.
Yea a mudguard wouldn't have been a bad idea. Everything was mostly sponsored so to me it didn't cost as much as it would seem. Spending another 500 would be a significant proportion of total spent. Wind is fine for me, the bike is heavy and with the panel flat feels like a roadbike in strong wind.
awesome bike
Great video...
your land solar sailboat looks unusual)