Even the album art is complimentary, both depict barriers but one has gaps giving us hope of breaking through while the other highlights the isolation of being stuck on one side, just like their respective films!
But the gaps in Tommy are black.. do you still think it means hope? Maybe it could say something about what the boys thought about hope? I'm not at all disagreeing with you, to be clear! Just curious
In Jesus Christ Superstar, which is also about the price of fame, Judas (the narrator) asks Jesus, "Can't you see what is happening?" It's interesting that all three rock operas are essentially about the same subject.
@@Serai3 all three rock operas are similar because they were written in the same time period by a bunch of guys who all knew each other, and were competiting with each other to write rock operas.
@@perfectallycromulent Dude, The Wall was written nearly ten years after Superstar. Not the same time and certainly not in the same musical era. 1979 was a very different musical time than 1970.
I first encountered the Wall during quarantine in 2020. During that time, I spent most of my time in one room doing school online. My parents recently divorced, my overbearing mother was on the other side of the country, and as an only child, there were days where I wouldn't talk to anyone. I was alone for so long, and by chance, RUclips recommended Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2. I enjoyed it, and on a whim, I put on the album. I never resonated with an album as much as I did, before or since. Despite its dark tone, it granted me comfort knowing that others have shared a similar pain, a similar emptiness and loneliness in their lives. I knew I was no longer alone, that we were struggling together. It was one of the darkest parts of my life, but I'm glad to say that chapter is over. I have found solace in the company of those I care about, and the world feels brighter.
Coincidently the wall is based on a divorce as I'm sure you seen? But sorry that occured. Glad you were able to enjoy that album. Such an amazing piece of art
Tommy is like a cool acid-trip that you can't help but tell your non-user friends as they just smile and nod. The Wall is a bad acid-trip that gets you put into therapy.
As someone who is a big fan of rock operas in general I feel like this video was made for me. Personally, I grew up listening to Tommy and it was my introduction to rock in general. I even got to play the album at a school of rock when I was a teen. But my favorite album and favorite piece of entertainment ever is the wall
I went through a pretty hefty falling out with a very close friend of mine around winter 2023 and Christmas, since then we have been permanently separated from each other. I felt deeply connected to The Wall and Tommy, I wanted to isolate myself from everyone by being deaf, dumb and blind because she was “just a brick in my wall”. I learnt about Syd Barrett’s isolation from society and wanted to do what he did. I heard about the visceral divide between Waters and Gilmour and felt like I could relate. In the aftermath, I learnt more about Townshend’s spiritual message in Tommy, Lifehouse and Quadrophenia. I also listened to David Gilmour’s solo album On An Island, and I felt very at ease and peaceful when I listened to it. I set about making a radical change in my personality, urging myself to be more “peaceful”, because I realised the magnitude of chaos in my life. This helped me come to terms with this separation and finally accept the life I have to live from now on. Consequently, I saw that my former friend actually went through a process of isolating herself from others. She cut herself off from all her friends and was absent from school most of the time. She only ever talked to two people, from what I know. I have a bad feeling that I was a “brick in her wall” that catalysed her want to isolate herself. A want, which she may have had for a long time. If you were able to read all that, props to you for sticking around. And if Polyphonic ever sees this, please listen to On An Island. I’d love to see your interpretation of it (it’s alright if you don’t want to).
You’re not alone. I know so many people including myself who connected so deeply to the wall and Tommy and wanted to alienate themselves. Keep up the good work man, you gotta tear down the wall, be vulnerable. The people in life who love you will be there for you, but you’ve gotta be willing to let yourself love and be loved. ❤
+1 to On an Island, even tho I think Waters Pink Floyd > Gilmore Pink Floyd, even with Gilmore being my favorite guitarist. Division Bell was gooooood, but, idk, it feels like listening to Pink Floyd thru a Joshua Tree filter. Check out Roger Waters' solo work too my guy. His first two solo spins would've been remembered as some of Pink Floyd's best work, they're that good.
@@Mix1mum I've listened to Radio KAOS pretty recently and it was really good. I'll check out Pros And Cons of Hitchhiking next. I agree with your opinion on Division Bell, it sounds very treble and theres not really a lot of bass. But I sort of like that sound because it feels like having a cool shower on a hot day. It feels very fresh, Cluster One and Marooned particularly. Also have you listened to the two singles Gilmour has released for his upcoming album Luck And Strange? They're both so good
i relate to this way too much, it’s concerning. literally everything you said mirrors what happened between me and a friend earlier this year. i’m still comijg to terms with my self. realizing i was the brick and how much i hurt them.. it’s the gultiest i’ve felt genuinely
@@treestumps_ I don't know exactly how your falling out went, but I can assure you that you are not a bad person. We make mistakes in life. My former friend doesn't have it in her to forgive me but maybe your friend does. Hopefully you two can apologise and forgive. I believe in you :D
My father served in the Italian campaign alongside the late Eric Waters. They didn't know each other, but Dad was at Monte Cassino and was near Anzio when Waters died
Definitely agree. Quadrophenia, for some reason, always gets glossed over and people kind of talk about The Who as though the band ended after Who's Next. And The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, while I'm not sure how much could be said about it from a cultural standpoint as compared to just the craziness described in the songs and story.
When I first listened to 'Hey You', I thought it was two people talking to each other. Though, as I started to listen to the whole album multiple times, I realized that it was just Pink talking to himself. With Gilmore and Waters working off each other as Pink's different personalities. However, that idea never really left my mind, and if I was in charge of telling this story. I would have 'Hey You' be a moment where another mentally disturbed individual knocks on Pink's door while he's leaning against it in a daze. And the two start singing to each other about how they're both the same. A brief moment of humanity is separated by a figurative and litteral wall. However, when Pink opens the door at the line 'Together we stand, divided we fall.' He finds that the other person is gone, for what reason he doesn't know. And here he is, again, isolated and alone.
Tommy” is my favorite album of all time, specifically because as a 13 year old boy with Cerebral Palsy, I deeply related to its story of a young man struggling against the limits of his own body, desperately seeking real human connection...and, let’s be honest, the fairy tale cure and rise to megalomaniacal celebrity really appeals to an angsty, hormonal teenage boy. 😂
In a way, that part of the story is kind of more satisfying in this video we're commenting. So why not integrate it in our view of the album? Pete Townsend is not the best storyteller in the world. And he made Tommy under enormous pressure.
Tommy might be one of my favorite albums. I got into it as a kid and even as an adult its like a WIlly Wonka fever dream/nightmare escape album. I don't listen to the who as much anymore but it still holds a special place for me.
The blankness of Daltrey's Tommy allowed the surrounding performances to shine all the more - Ann Margaret, Oliver Reed, Paul Nicholas, Keith Moon, Tina Turner, Elton John, Robert Powell - totally overblown performances but stellar all the same🤘🏻
An interesting detail from the filming of "The Wall": Bob Geldof said that in the scene where he's sitting in the hotel room and the groupie is trying to get his attention, she finally just takes his hand and starts kissing his fingers. "I suddenly felt this wave of depression wash over me, and I started to cry. I hadn't cried since I was a child." Geldof was not an actor and never acted again, but he said that moment was really revealing for him. (Roger Daltry wasn't and isn't an actor, either, which is why he didn't really know how to put across the internal experiences Tommy was having.)
I love Pink Floyd’s “The Wall.” I remember listening to that album so much, that the majority of their songs were on my iPod library top 25 for awhile. Good times.
Thanks for putting this together, I'm a big fan of Maggie mayfish, and as a long-time polyphonic fan as well. I think it was really cool to hear the discussion between you 3 creators together. I was a huge fan of these rock operas when I was 14-17, my formative music years. They're both incredible albums and movies, and I think the connection between creativity and mental health as well as the intersections of war, disability, drugs, sex, abuse, fascism, and community in western(British) society is really important to examine
I never thought about a possible connection between these albums, but it's definitely a profound one. I always saw both works as dire warnings by the Bands about the thing that all of their fans want. You can absolutely feel the regret from their past actions, and concern for the next generation of fans listening, who dream of being like them.
My grandpa had a painting of Meher Baba in his house and a photo of him on his dashboard. As a kid, I thought it was just Robin Williams with a mustache.
Speaking strictly in musical terms, I find The Wall to be way more powerful and gripping than Tommy. Despite some excellent musical highs in parts, Tommy feels fragmented and disjointed to me in a way that The Wall doesn’t (or doesn’t as much). But the comparison of the stories and themes that you’ve done here is really fantastic, and shows how they really are two sides of the same coin. Recently I heard someone say on a podcast that they thought Tommy’s followers turn on him and KILL him at the end, but I’m glad that’s not everyone’s interpretation. The continued relevance of these pieces thematically really cannot be overstated. Trauma and cycles of trauma, whatever it/they may be due to, are still monumentally impactful in lives, families, communities, nations, and the world. Thank you for this video. Very well done.
My dad introduced me to both Pink Floyd and The Who at a very early age. One of my earliest memories is watching a live performance of Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd on PINK FLOYD BBC 1 1967, playing "Astronomy Domine" in our living room, i do believe i had like 3-4 years. Growing up, we had access to MTV when I was nine years old, and I remember being extremely scared by the music video for "Another Brick in the Wall." To this day, I still haven't watched the movie my dad recommended-haha. When I was thirteen, my dad and I binge-watched the entire show of BEAT-CLUB (yes, all in German, and yes, without subtitles-we are from Brasil). During that time, I saw The Who perform "My Generation," "Substitute," "Pictures of Lily," and other hits. My dad recommended the movie Tommy because he knew I liked The Who a lot. Around the ages of 14 to 16, I watched Tommy and became obsessed with it. The music, acting, and storyline were out of this world. I loved the album too, but the movie had a heavier rock feel and featured many guest musicians like Elton John, Eric Clapton, Tina Turner, and Arthur Brown. Maybe it’s finally time to watch and listen to The Wall after all-haha.
Very good analysis. I extremely enjoyed it. I saw Tommy in a small theater when I was 14. I was in the Navy and stationed in L.A. and saw The Wall concert live, 1980. I didn't Fully understand it until I saw the movie, but I was completely aware of Floyd's style and subject matter, being a fan throughout my teen years. Starting with Dark Side, and Wish You Were Here, and Animals. I did as well grow up in a post WW2 household. My dad, uncles were Vets. All the trauma and alcohol and imagery of sanitized hero movies mixed with reality of the war. I knew about Sid early and connected with mental illness of the character and of the time. It all prepared me for my military service. Afterwards, after seeing The Wall movie and understanding completely, I chose to heal. You're right, the wall doesn't ever come down and free you. My prison is that mental Wall. It's a cycle that comes and goes periodically but never goes away.
I saw both in the movie theater when first released. Tommy was Incredible! The Wall is a Masterpiece-has never been, and probably never will be topped.
In a time where people are turning either towards isolation or towards people who play into their fears promising "easy" but horrifying solutions, it's honestly somewhat comforting seeing this kind of videos. Finding answers in both music and other media... gives me back some faith in humanity, brings down some of those bricks from the wall. These will be some of our worst years on this planet, and I feel like I too, as both Tommy and Pink, want to reach out to others, to know that I'm not alone in these times.
I think the Wall discussion needs to have some focus on the additions and cuts at different points. For the movie, "When the Tigers Broke Free" and "What Shall We Do Now" were added, while "Hey You" was cut. Sure, the latter wasn't as much because Waters didn't want it, but because it was rehashing things that you would find elsewhere, but it's still a cut. "What Shall We Do Now", meanwhile, was supposed to be on the album, but cut for space, even if the question it's trying to answer ("Empty Spaces") is still there. The idea in it, that consumerism adds more to the wall, is highly important. "Tigers" does seem to be added more for narrative than anything else, though. I mean, the song has some evocative bits (like seeing the uncaring aspect that King George signed Pink's father's death notice with a rubber stamp), but the main crux, that his father died in the war, is already covered elsewhere. Though, I guess "Tigers" shows how needless the death was (and does continue a narrative line from "Us and Them" off of Dark Side, where war is depicted as leaders sending people to the slaughter all for no reason). Really, The Final Cut is an interesting look as an extension of The Wall. It's mentioned in the video as a prequel, but it's both prequel and sequel. Pink's father isn't really the focus, even if it may seem like it's him, but the prequel bits are actually for the teacher from The Wall. After all, this soldier returns home, and in "One of the Few" makes it pretty explicit ("When you're one of the few/to land on your feet/what do you do/to make ends meet? (Teach)"). Heck, in the short film depicting some songs from the album, the main character is played by the same man who played the teacher in the movie. Though Pink's father may actually be mentioned, the gunner who is the focus of "The Gunners Dream", speaking his last words over the intercom as he dies. However, despite the prequel aspect, there's also the fact that some of these songs were cut from The Wall, and so are told by Pink himself. The title song seems to be sung by Pink, and it implies the end of his story is possibly tragic, especially as the line "I'll tell you what's behind the wall" is cut off by the sound of a gunshot. Sure, the song ends with the narrator being pulled back from the brink by a phone call and that he "never had the nerve to make the final cut", but that's also not a situation where he decided not to, but just that he didn't this time. Now, the final song on the album, meanwhile, is quite the juxtaposition as the world ends in a nuclear apocalypse, but there's a serenity shown in that in that moment of inevitable death, all of our differences and squabbles are forgotten, because "we were all equal in the end". Still, far more pessimistic end than The Wall (and one of Pink Floyd's weakest albums, really). Waters, in his solo career, added to The Wall narrative some more. The Wall Live in Berlin changed the ending to a much more optimistic one, swapping out the final song from the album with "The Tide is Turning (After Live Aid)", which originally closed his Radio KAOS album, and envisioned a future where humanity actually stood together with empathy and there was a brighter future. But Roger has also said that his album Amused to Death is basically the third album in the narrative of The Wall, and while that claim seems dubious (nothing attaches it narratively to what came previously, though I guess there's thematic parallel), it does offer an insight into where he felt things should go, and it's back to the bleakness of The Final Cut. Heck, the title song references how humans died, that alien anthropologists conclude "This species has amused itself to death". The whole thing is a further condemnation of human society, and brings in an element that was surprisingly lacking in the other two albums: religion. The "What God Wants" trilogy is all about how humanity can do horrible things in the name of religion. Meanwhile, the "Perfect Sense" songs explore another aspect of consumerist culture, in how the government will manipulate the people through money. The most evocative part, to me, though, is opening, "The Ballad of Bill Hubbard", which features an actual soldier talking about his ultimately futile attempt to save a fellow soldier during the war, before needing to abandon him in no man's land, and how it haunted the narrator ever since. Maybe it's the fact that it's not some fantastical narrative or the like, just a poor old man's true story of being broken by war. Ultimately, Roger's cynicism makes for poignant albums and music in general, but it does make for some dark conclusions. Interestingly, The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, as well as Radio KAOS (as mentioned), are so much more optimistic. The former being a personal revelation, and the latter one for the whole world. He does have it in him, but I guess he can't muster that up nearly as much as he might need to.
The first time I heard about the comparisons between these two was in an article in Guitar World magazine like 20 years ago and I must have listened to both records over and over again
Major applause and huge kudos for this video analysis and breakdown. So incredibly well done and thank you so much for shining lights on these incredible masterpieces. I've heard Tommy since childhood and it will always be very dear to my heart on many levels.
It's such a pity there are no comments on Nebula, where I would much sooner watch these videos. You've been on a roll lately, and I congratulate you on this one too.
Thank you, thank you, thank you...I've been asking for this ever since I saw your song-by-song analyses of DARK SIDE OF THE MOON and WISH YOU WERE HERE. Well worth it.
One thing that's absolutely spectacular about Tommy is its musical adaptation. It is currently BACK ON BROADWAY and I was lucky enough to see it. It's a WAY better visual adaptation than the movie, it makes so much more sense, and the performances are amazing. It debuted in 1993 so if you're curious, definitely go listen to the original broadway cast recording. I'm hoping they release a new one for the revival soon. There's no The Wall musical (afaik) and thus no point of comparison, but I had to mention it.
I grew up on Pink Floyd "The Wall". You know when you turn 13 or 14 years old and you start getting into music, like really getting into music. The album "The Wall was mine. I found it in my mother's records collection. This was the mid 80s. I listened to that album probably 20 times a day for two years straight. I had just started smoking weed back then too, so they kind of went hand in hand. Those songs were the soundtrack to my early teen years. They mean a lot to me.
I've tried to get through The Wall 3 times and I feel asleep each time. Tommy was my first experience with avant garde films like this. Great cameos on Tommy!
By far your best video! Enjoyed every moment, immensely! It was comprehensive, solidly researched, and supportive of each major claim. All that AND a drop from Frontier Psychiatrist ?! Excellent job!
Long drawn out comment about personal experience with a big thanks to Polyphonic for being the best to eva do it, keep scrolling. I listened to both albums early in high school and they hugely inspired my musical taste, however I can’t say I listen to either much nowadays. In my age I’ve started to view Tommy as a psyched out fever dream that didn’t age well but the music is amazing (I LOVE the Overture it’s a rock masterpiece). I see The Wall as a musician moaning about how hard his life is and how cynical he is, and the music that once hit for me on The Wall doesn’t as much nowadays. I will say that I experienced a Wall like scenario in my life while I was at school and it makes it harder to hear, so on a level I relate but I also don’t at all. To add, a track off The Wall shuffled into my Spotify recently: ‘The Show Must Go On’. If there were ever a more beautiful song about anxiety. That is one I overlooked in the past and have come to love. But really the impact of these two albums were short lived for me as towards the end of my high school days I found Quadrophenia, an album that I related with so hard back then and almost became an anthem of the depressive episodes throughout my life. But I would still hold it as the greatest rock opera of all time, even if it’s through story isn’t great either. More recently (2 years ago now) I listened to The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, and that is another fantastic musical album but I can’t stand the story with in. It has made me detest the idea of a rock opera with not being satisfied with the whole story of any of these albums but LOVING the musical pieces within. I don’t know what all of this yapping was really for but a writing out of a moment in my life. Thanks Polyphonic for an amazing vid by far your best to date with concept and visuals. Congrats man.
Quadrophenus is my favorite double and concept album ever. It's brilliant. The power and passion of youth with no creative or positive outlet. All that's left is too drink, fight, and f......
Wow! I have such vivid memories of both of these films. I remember renting Tommy at Blockbuster and not getting it. I remember watching The Wall at my friend's house on Beta Max. It was the first of many. Both of the albums are awesome. I miss album rock.
That was so well done, engaging, thought-provoking, a terrific comparison of two of my favourite concept albums. I hope you do more such comparison videos.
Ken Russell deserves much more credit for the fantastic visuals and script - it was his idea to change the era and the production design was excellent - plus all new versions of some great tracks with guest artists and classics in their own right.
i watched the wall mid eighties to see/learn gerald scarfe's animation and art direction,(still the best parts) and its no doubt been burned into my brain, dont need watch it again though, the abusive schooling, effect to later health etc. hits home too hard in places, not forgotten, dont need a reminder, but shows how strong the concept worked to get the thought accross in musical and visual form, its too dark to listen to now but i already memorised all the tunes they sometimes come back as ear"worms" 😊
My older sister (13 years older) took me to see Tommy when I was 7! She had no idea what the movie was about and it was playing at a local college she was attending. I of course didn't really understand the movie at the time, but loved the music! She did apologize when I was older for bringing me, but I said she didn't have to because I became a huge fan of The Who because of it. I saw The Wall when I was 14 on VHS at my aunt and uncle's with them and my dad. We were all stunned into silence when it was over. They understood the deep meanings of the movie more than I did at the time. I became obsessed with Pink Floyd after watching that movie! I was a child of the 70's and 80's, so I was not sheltered at all from any adult things. I was exposed to so much, it's crazy to reflect on it. But I wouldn't change my childhood, good and bad for nothing...
I think the Nietzschean eternal recurrence idea influences both epics. Pink discovers his emergence as a child into the aftermath of another great wall being smashed provides all the raw materials of trauma to build anew. It is the ouroboros. Childlike innocence is corrupted, stolen or squandered in both protagonist's stories, and unexamined the psychological torments reinvents and transforms, sometimes with new victimization and sometimes through a kind of grace or spiritual awakening healing occurs and the earth renews, innocence is if not restored made possible for new generations through healing and wisdom. I admire these works and the many artists that brought them to life.
As much as I love both of these albums and enjoy looking at the shared ideas/concepts, my favourite will always be Quadrophenia. It has a more abstract storytelling like the Wall compared to the more straightforward style of Tommy, the more grounded simple story allows for great exploration of the ideas and concepts. I love how each of the band members are represented by one of the 4 themes and personalities, and the music overall across the album might be Townsend's overall best work
Both are on my top album list, and I've always seen common things, to the point where I suspected Tommy to be one of the influence for The Wall... I'm HAPPY you address the topic ! (The Who and Pink Floyd are both within my favorite bands, and are part of the bands for which I got almost all their works.)
Tommy was one of the first movies I ever saw at a very young age, probably far too young to see and interpret it properly. I have a soft spot for it, but The Wall was so much more impactful as I got older. I don't really have a point, just that I love both films and albums dearly.
As two of the biggest albums of my young life (and to various extents, still being so -- though at this point, Tommy has faded from prominence more than The Wall has, for me personally), I'd certainly noticed various parallels between them. Seeing this direct juxtaposition is somehow still beyond what I've ever done, really, and is super interesting. Thanks for diving into this.
If you didn't know, there's a sequel to the wall called The Final Cut. It's even more personal and cutting, it's amazing Waters even released it at all. It's not as flashy as the Wall, but what is? But the Final Cut leaves me feeling shook, not the Wall. I was lucky enough to see Waters perform his updated Wall in 2012, and it was fucking godly. Nothing has even come close to that level of production and live music is my jam, having seen 100s upon 100s of show. Roger Waters = GOAT.
The wall is something that I've gone over a few times and you absolutely nailed it, however there's some things that i would like to add. First, there are songs from the wall that were cut/ that can slot in perfectly into the album. "When the Tigers Broke Free (i think was in the movie) is a song that slots in perfectly and was part of The Final Cut. And personally i like "what shall we do now" over empty spaces. It paints a very clear picture of Pink's mental state at that point in the film/album and was cut due to the limits of Vinyl sizes. Another fact: there is a second guitarist that has worked on The Wall as well as Animals. He was the man who performed "Is There Anybody Out There?" On the record. His name was Snowy White. Next, i want to touch on the debate about "Comfortably Numb" and the meaning behind it because this is something that will never end due to the band members directly being quoted, "conspiracy theories" around it, and more. To start, its widely known that Rogers wrote the lyrics and Gilmour wrote the music. My guitar teacher has met just about everyone when it comes to the biggest names in rock. Hes got a white Strat with 30+ signatures on it that he will never play and rooms full of signed pictures with artists. He has direct contact with David Gilmour. And he has asked about the writing of Comfortably Numb. From what i was told, Gilmour talks about a somewhat similar experience to Rogers. He had a knee injury and was often injected with painkillers before shows and it occasionally had adverse effects. My interpretation of this is that he used that experience to fuel how he composed the song and the kind of emotion he puts into his performance. Edit: finally finished the video. Great job going over "The Final Cut." You may have touched on it briefly but most neglect to mention how it not only feels like a Rogers solo project but a Prologue to The wall. As for the discussion in the end, i have a few issues but nothing that's really important. The first is the talk about the portrayal of women in the albums always being negative. These albums were written in a very different time. Same goes for the "lining up Qu**rs against the wall" part. Homosexuality was not widely accepted at this time. But I don't like how she tried to attempt to tie this to modern day society and indirectly sort of insinuate that the right does this kind of thing. It doesn't happen and hasn't happened for decades in advanced societies. Same as the "we live in a patriarchy" part as well. Though some remnants of that era still stand, most of that is gone. Insinuating that the portrayal of women in the late 70s (technically more like 60s since the albums are done from the perspective of a post war era) is a 1 to 1 representation of modern society 50 years later is disingenuous.
When I first started listening to The Wall more intently, I was in deep dire straights, mentally. It was right around the time a certain virus made its presence known, and I was frightened of what the future could hold. I even did a series of drawings based off of each song in the album. I also see a bit of myself in Pink's story, with him growing up in post WW2 England, and me growing up in post 9/11 America. Eventually, I reached out to a good friend of mine about how I feel. And I also did therapy for a bit. I'm a little bit more outgoing, but I still have this creeping dread that lingers in the back of my mind.
What amazes me is the wall was originally intended as a Waters solo project. But the band quickly realized they were broke and needed to pump out an album fast, Waters that already done quite a bit of work on the wall so the band voted just take it from there, as it were. This is likely the main cause of the battle that ensued between band members, as Waters never stop thinking of it as a deeply personal solo project. Gilmour seemed more interested in keeping up their professional standing in the world of rock and roll, and as water's got more and more carried away Gilmore likely saw this an artistic folly
5:29 - Actually the group The Pretty Things began work in 1967-68 on their concept album S. F. Sorrow about S.F. Sorrow, a man who slowly lost everything in life and then a man Barron Saturday, teaches him to remove his eyes and realize the whole world is lonely and untruthful. It's not much of a story but it musically and lyrically inspired Pete as they were working in the same recording studios at one point and Pete asked for an early rough mix of it.
I've got so many comments on this video, but I'll limit myself to just one. David Gilmour was brought into Pink Floyd as a safety net (and friend) when Syd started to behave more and more erratically on stage. Sometimes he would just stand there, like frozen, gazing into the horizon. In fact Syd was never formally fired from the band. At one point they just decided to not pick him up on their way to a gig. So in practice he's still a member of the band. Talk about absent friends. Very interesting discussion at the end of the Nebula video. Thanks for yet another interesting video, on a sublect close to my heart. ✌✌
I grew up with hearing The Wall and Dark Side of the Moon around the house (I can't remember if Dad played the who). I haven't seen Tommy but I've seen the school children bits in the The Wall which scared me as a kid.
Brilliant analysis of both albums - thanks so much! The only thing I wish about the film of The Wall, is that the whole thing had been animated by Gerald Scarfe. It would have been an absolute masterpiece.
Check out my extended conversation with Maggie and Will on Nebula: nebula.tv/videos/polyphonic-talking-tommy-and-the-wall-with-maggie-mae-fish
loved the Avalanches reference!
It always comes down to the mothers. Ann Coulter wasn't wrong.
Even the album art is complimentary, both depict barriers but one has gaps giving us hope of breaking through while the other highlights the isolation of being stuck on one side, just like their respective films!
Love your guys' work!
But the gaps in Tommy are black.. do you still think it means hope? Maybe it could say something about what the boys thought about hope? I'm not at all disagreeing with you, to be clear! Just curious
Tommy says "See me, feel me" , Pink asking "Is there anybody out there?"
In Jesus Christ Superstar, which is also about the price of fame, Judas (the narrator) asks Jesus, "Can't you see what is happening?" It's interesting that all three rock operas are essentially about the same subject.
@@Serai3 all three rock operas are similar because they were written in the same time period by a bunch of guys who all knew each other, and were competiting with each other to write rock operas.
@@perfectallycromulent Dude, The Wall was written nearly ten years after Superstar. Not the same time and certainly not in the same musical era. 1979 was a very different musical time than 1970.
I first encountered the Wall during quarantine in 2020. During that time, I spent most of my time in one room doing school online. My parents recently divorced, my overbearing mother was on the other side of the country, and as an only child, there were days where I wouldn't talk to anyone. I was alone for so long, and by chance, RUclips recommended Another Brick in the Wall Pt. 2. I enjoyed it, and on a whim, I put on the album. I never resonated with an album as much as I did, before or since. Despite its dark tone, it granted me comfort knowing that others have shared a similar pain, a similar emptiness and loneliness in their lives. I knew I was no longer alone, that we were struggling together. It was one of the darkest parts of my life, but I'm glad to say that chapter is over. I have found solace in the company of those I care about, and the world feels brighter.
Coincidently the wall is based on a divorce as I'm sure you seen? But sorry that occured. Glad you were able to enjoy that album. Such an amazing piece of art
"And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too, I'll see you on the dark side of the moon..."
Tommy is like a cool acid-trip that you can't help but tell your non-user friends as they just smile and nod.
The Wall is a bad acid-trip that gets you put into therapy.
As someone who is a big fan of rock operas in general I feel like this video was made for me. Personally, I grew up listening to Tommy and it was my introduction to rock in general. I even got to play the album at a school of rock when I was a teen. But my favorite album and favorite piece of entertainment ever is the wall
"Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way"
Wrong album 😂
That’s from TDSOTM
Yeah, from Dark Side. I caught that lyric. It's how we were taught, raised, and lived by my parents post WW2 experience. Very stoic.
Waters was a great lyricist but “quiet desperation” was nicked from Henry David Thoreau.
@@c.7610 Wow. Didn’t know that.
I went through a pretty hefty falling out with a very close friend of mine around winter 2023 and Christmas, since then we have been permanently separated from each other.
I felt deeply connected to The Wall and Tommy, I wanted to isolate myself from everyone by being deaf, dumb and blind because she was “just a brick in my wall”. I learnt about Syd Barrett’s isolation from society and wanted to do what he did. I heard about the visceral divide between Waters and Gilmour and felt like I could relate.
In the aftermath, I learnt more about Townshend’s spiritual message in Tommy, Lifehouse and Quadrophenia. I also listened to David Gilmour’s solo album On An Island, and I felt very at ease and peaceful when I listened to it. I set about making a radical change in my personality, urging myself to be more “peaceful”, because I realised the magnitude of chaos in my life.
This helped me come to terms with this separation and finally accept the life I have to live from now on. Consequently, I saw that my former friend actually went through a process of isolating herself from others. She cut herself off from all her friends and was absent from school most of the time. She only ever talked to two people, from what I know. I have a bad feeling that I was a “brick in her wall” that catalysed her want to isolate herself. A want, which she may have had for a long time.
If you were able to read all that, props to you for sticking around. And if Polyphonic ever sees this, please listen to On An Island. I’d love to see your interpretation of it (it’s alright if you don’t want to).
You’re not alone. I know so many people including myself who connected so deeply to the wall and Tommy and wanted to alienate themselves. Keep up the good work man, you gotta tear down the wall, be vulnerable. The people in life who love you will be there for you, but you’ve gotta be willing to let yourself love and be loved. ❤
+1 to On an Island, even tho I think Waters Pink Floyd > Gilmore Pink Floyd, even with Gilmore being my favorite guitarist. Division Bell was gooooood, but, idk, it feels like listening to Pink Floyd thru a Joshua Tree filter.
Check out Roger Waters' solo work too my guy. His first two solo spins would've been remembered as some of Pink Floyd's best work, they're that good.
@@Mix1mum I've listened to Radio KAOS pretty recently and it was really good. I'll check out Pros And Cons of Hitchhiking next.
I agree with your opinion on Division Bell, it sounds very treble and theres not really a lot of bass. But I sort of like that sound because it feels like having a cool shower on a hot day. It feels very fresh, Cluster One and Marooned particularly.
Also have you listened to the two singles Gilmour has released for his upcoming album Luck And Strange? They're both so good
i relate to this way too much, it’s concerning. literally everything you said mirrors what happened between me and a friend earlier this year. i’m still comijg to terms with my self. realizing i was the brick and how much i hurt them.. it’s the gultiest i’ve felt genuinely
@@treestumps_ I don't know exactly how your falling out went, but I can assure you that you are not a bad person. We make mistakes in life. My former friend doesn't have it in her to forgive me but maybe your friend does. Hopefully you two can apologise and forgive. I believe in you :D
My father served in the Italian campaign alongside the late Eric Waters. They didn't know each other, but Dad was at Monte Cassino and was near Anzio when Waters died
Would love to see a video about dissecting The Who's "Quadrophenia", or "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway" by Genesis
Haven't you done that already by yourself?
Definitely agree. Quadrophenia, for some reason, always gets glossed over and people kind of talk about The Who as though the band ended after Who's Next. And The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, while I'm not sure how much could be said about it from a cultural standpoint as compared to just the craziness described in the songs and story.
really agree
When I first listened to 'Hey You', I thought it was two people talking to each other. Though, as I started to listen to the whole album multiple times, I realized that it was just Pink talking to himself. With Gilmore and Waters working off each other as Pink's different personalities. However, that idea never really left my mind, and if I was in charge of telling this story. I would have 'Hey You' be a moment where another mentally disturbed individual knocks on Pink's door while he's leaning against it in a daze. And the two start singing to each other about how they're both the same. A brief moment of humanity is separated by a figurative and litteral wall. However, when Pink opens the door at the line 'Together we stand, divided we fall.' He finds that the other person is gone, for what reason he doesn't know. And here he is, again, isolated and alone.
I was reading a AO3 fanfic that shipped Pink with Ziggy Stardust when I saw you uploaded this so thank you for enabling my obsessions.
Respectfully that is so incredibly unhinged homie
The ultimate fusion of gen z and boomers
Listening To You is the pinnacle of the spirituality in rock music. I can't hear it without getting emotional, especially the live versions
Omg this is wonderful! The Who’s Tommy never gets the attention it deserves ❤
That Avalanches excerpt got me pretty good, lol
Please do more 1+hr videos, great work mate with thoughtful insights and gorgeous visuals
Tommy” is my favorite album of all time, specifically because as a 13 year old boy with Cerebral Palsy, I deeply related to its story of a young man struggling against the limits of his own body, desperately seeking real human connection...and, let’s be honest, the fairy tale cure and rise to megalomaniacal celebrity really appeals to an angsty, hormonal teenage boy. 😂
Same to a T my friend, CP and all.
In a way, that part of the story is kind of more satisfying in this video we're commenting. So why not integrate it in our view of the album? Pete Townsend is not the best storyteller in the world. And he made Tommy under enormous pressure.
Tommy might be one of my favorite albums. I got into it as a kid and even as an adult its like a WIlly Wonka fever dream/nightmare escape album. I don't listen to the who as much anymore but it still holds a special place for me.
The blankness of Daltrey's Tommy allowed the surrounding performances to shine all the more - Ann Margaret, Oliver Reed, Paul Nicholas, Keith Moon, Tina Turner, Elton John, Robert Powell - totally overblown performances but stellar all the same🤘🏻
An interesting detail from the filming of "The Wall": Bob Geldof said that in the scene where he's sitting in the hotel room and the groupie is trying to get his attention, she finally just takes his hand and starts kissing his fingers. "I suddenly felt this wave of depression wash over me, and I started to cry. I hadn't cried since I was a child." Geldof was not an actor and never acted again, but he said that moment was really revealing for him. (Roger Daltry wasn't and isn't an actor, either, which is why he didn't really know how to put across the internal experiences Tommy was having.)
I love Pink Floyd’s “The Wall.” I remember listening to that album so much, that the majority of their songs were on my iPod library top 25 for awhile. Good times.
Thanks for putting this together, I'm a big fan of Maggie mayfish, and as a long-time polyphonic fan as well. I think it was really cool to hear the discussion between you 3 creators together. I was a huge fan of these rock operas when I was 14-17, my formative music years. They're both incredible albums and movies, and I think the connection between creativity and mental health as well as the intersections of war, disability, drugs, sex, abuse, fascism, and community in western(British) society is really important to examine
I love both legendary Prog Rock Opera albums. Mostly The Wall, but Tommy has stunning highlights like The Pinball Wizard and See Me, Feel Me.
I never thought about a possible connection between these albums, but it's definitely a profound one. I always saw both works as dire warnings by the Bands about the thing that all of their fans want. You can absolutely feel the regret from their past actions, and concern for the next generation of fans listening, who dream of being like them.
Can't watch this right now, but this is me in my late teens/early twenties (Tommy) vs me in my late twenties/early thirties (The Wall)
Yeah, one's more optimistic and youthful, the other feels the drag of life
My grandpa had a painting of Meher Baba in his house and a photo of him on his dashboard. As a kid, I thought it was just Robin Williams with a mustache.
Speaking strictly in musical terms, I find The Wall to be way more powerful and gripping than Tommy. Despite some excellent musical highs in parts, Tommy feels fragmented and disjointed to me in a way that The Wall doesn’t (or doesn’t as much). But the comparison of the stories and themes that you’ve done here is really fantastic, and shows how they really are two sides of the same coin.
Recently I heard someone say on a podcast that they thought Tommy’s followers turn on him and KILL him at the end, but I’m glad that’s not everyone’s interpretation.
The continued relevance of these pieces thematically really cannot be overstated. Trauma and cycles of trauma, whatever it/they may be due to, are still monumentally impactful in lives, families, communities, nations, and the world.
Thank you for this video. Very well done.
As someone who watched Tommy hundreds of times once video came in the 80s, as a teenager, I can't tell you how happy this vid makes me. Thankyou.
My dad introduced me to both Pink Floyd and The Who at a very early age. One of my earliest memories is watching a live performance of Syd Barrett and Pink Floyd on PINK FLOYD BBC 1 1967, playing "Astronomy Domine" in our living room, i do believe i had like 3-4 years. Growing up, we had access to MTV when I was nine years old, and I remember being extremely scared by the music video for "Another Brick in the Wall." To this day, I still haven't watched the movie my dad recommended-haha.
When I was thirteen, my dad and I binge-watched the entire show of BEAT-CLUB (yes, all in German, and yes, without subtitles-we are from Brasil). During that time, I saw The Who perform "My Generation," "Substitute," "Pictures of Lily," and other hits. My dad recommended the movie Tommy because he knew I liked The Who a lot. Around the ages of 14 to 16, I watched Tommy and became obsessed with it. The music, acting, and storyline were out of this world. I loved the album too, but the movie had a heavier rock feel and featured many guest musicians like Elton John, Eric Clapton, Tina Turner, and Arthur Brown.
Maybe it’s finally time to watch and listen to The Wall after all-haha.
When I listened to The Wall for the first time I discovered depression.
Well.... it's an unbelievably depressing and bleak album...
Very good analysis. I extremely enjoyed it. I saw Tommy in a small theater when I was 14. I was in the Navy and stationed in L.A. and saw The Wall concert live, 1980. I didn't Fully understand it until I saw the movie, but I was completely aware of Floyd's style and subject matter, being a fan throughout my teen years. Starting with Dark Side, and Wish You Were Here, and Animals. I did as well grow up in a post WW2 household. My dad, uncles were Vets. All the trauma and alcohol and imagery of sanitized hero movies mixed with reality of the war.
I knew about Sid early and connected with mental illness of the character and of the time. It all prepared me for my military service. Afterwards, after seeing The Wall movie and understanding completely, I chose to heal. You're right, the wall doesn't ever come down and free you. My prison is that mental Wall. It's a cycle that comes and goes periodically but never goes away.
Great coverage of two legendary rock albums…nay, rock epics…and the complicated stories of the complex geniuses who brought us these works.
I saw both in the movie theater when first released. Tommy was Incredible! The Wall is a Masterpiece-has never been, and probably never will be topped.
Please do a video on Quadrophenia! It's definitely my favourite of the who's rock operas
In a time where people are turning either towards isolation or towards people who play into their fears promising "easy" but horrifying solutions, it's honestly somewhat comforting seeing this kind of videos. Finding answers in both music and other media... gives me back some faith in humanity, brings down some of those bricks from the wall. These will be some of our worst years on this planet, and I feel like I too, as both Tommy and Pink, want to reach out to others, to know that I'm not alone in these times.
I think the Wall discussion needs to have some focus on the additions and cuts at different points. For the movie, "When the Tigers Broke Free" and "What Shall We Do Now" were added, while "Hey You" was cut. Sure, the latter wasn't as much because Waters didn't want it, but because it was rehashing things that you would find elsewhere, but it's still a cut. "What Shall We Do Now", meanwhile, was supposed to be on the album, but cut for space, even if the question it's trying to answer ("Empty Spaces") is still there. The idea in it, that consumerism adds more to the wall, is highly important. "Tigers" does seem to be added more for narrative than anything else, though. I mean, the song has some evocative bits (like seeing the uncaring aspect that King George signed Pink's father's death notice with a rubber stamp), but the main crux, that his father died in the war, is already covered elsewhere. Though, I guess "Tigers" shows how needless the death was (and does continue a narrative line from "Us and Them" off of Dark Side, where war is depicted as leaders sending people to the slaughter all for no reason).
Really, The Final Cut is an interesting look as an extension of The Wall. It's mentioned in the video as a prequel, but it's both prequel and sequel. Pink's father isn't really the focus, even if it may seem like it's him, but the prequel bits are actually for the teacher from The Wall. After all, this soldier returns home, and in "One of the Few" makes it pretty explicit ("When you're one of the few/to land on your feet/what do you do/to make ends meet? (Teach)"). Heck, in the short film depicting some songs from the album, the main character is played by the same man who played the teacher in the movie. Though Pink's father may actually be mentioned, the gunner who is the focus of "The Gunners Dream", speaking his last words over the intercom as he dies. However, despite the prequel aspect, there's also the fact that some of these songs were cut from The Wall, and so are told by Pink himself. The title song seems to be sung by Pink, and it implies the end of his story is possibly tragic, especially as the line "I'll tell you what's behind the wall" is cut off by the sound of a gunshot. Sure, the song ends with the narrator being pulled back from the brink by a phone call and that he "never had the nerve to make the final cut", but that's also not a situation where he decided not to, but just that he didn't this time. Now, the final song on the album, meanwhile, is quite the juxtaposition as the world ends in a nuclear apocalypse, but there's a serenity shown in that in that moment of inevitable death, all of our differences and squabbles are forgotten, because "we were all equal in the end". Still, far more pessimistic end than The Wall (and one of Pink Floyd's weakest albums, really).
Waters, in his solo career, added to The Wall narrative some more. The Wall Live in Berlin changed the ending to a much more optimistic one, swapping out the final song from the album with "The Tide is Turning (After Live Aid)", which originally closed his Radio KAOS album, and envisioned a future where humanity actually stood together with empathy and there was a brighter future. But Roger has also said that his album Amused to Death is basically the third album in the narrative of The Wall, and while that claim seems dubious (nothing attaches it narratively to what came previously, though I guess there's thematic parallel), it does offer an insight into where he felt things should go, and it's back to the bleakness of The Final Cut. Heck, the title song references how humans died, that alien anthropologists conclude "This species has amused itself to death". The whole thing is a further condemnation of human society, and brings in an element that was surprisingly lacking in the other two albums: religion. The "What God Wants" trilogy is all about how humanity can do horrible things in the name of religion. Meanwhile, the "Perfect Sense" songs explore another aspect of consumerist culture, in how the government will manipulate the people through money. The most evocative part, to me, though, is opening, "The Ballad of Bill Hubbard", which features an actual soldier talking about his ultimately futile attempt to save a fellow soldier during the war, before needing to abandon him in no man's land, and how it haunted the narrator ever since. Maybe it's the fact that it's not some fantastical narrative or the like, just a poor old man's true story of being broken by war.
Ultimately, Roger's cynicism makes for poignant albums and music in general, but it does make for some dark conclusions. Interestingly, The Pros and Cons of Hitchhiking, as well as Radio KAOS (as mentioned), are so much more optimistic. The former being a personal revelation, and the latter one for the whole world. He does have it in him, but I guess he can't muster that up nearly as much as he might need to.
"Tommy" is the album that made me fall in love with The Who as a teen, they are, to this day, my favorite rock band lml
Watching the Tommy clips I'm reminded of Clockwork Orange.
The first time I heard about the comparisons between these two was in an article in Guitar World magazine like 20 years ago and I must have listened to both records over and over again
I know the exact article you're talking about. I read each issue over and over until the next one came out.
been waiting for a video like this for a while, thank you
The Wall helped me through a very dark time. Tommy accentuated a very happy time of my life.
Wow. What a fabulous essay. Deepened my appreciation of the artistry and themes of both albums. Thank you.
Hell yeah, two of my favorite albums and movies!
My two favorite albums of all time???? Ah, I'm HYPED!
Major applause and huge kudos for this video analysis and breakdown. So incredibly well done and thank you so much for shining lights on these incredible masterpieces. I've heard Tommy since childhood and it will always be very dear to my heart on many levels.
This video: 11 stars out of 10. Thank you!
It's such a pity there are no comments on Nebula, where I would much sooner watch these videos. You've been on a roll lately, and I congratulate you on this one too.
The wall for the win.Nothing beats the The Wall.
what a brilliant video! I honestly look forward for your videos week by week, thanks for making music education so accessible and engaging !
As for the two albums, my favorite is the one I've listened to most recently. It goes back and forth, because they're both just incredible.
Thank you, thank you, thank you...I've been asking for this ever since I saw your song-by-song analyses of DARK SIDE OF THE MOON and WISH YOU WERE HERE. Well worth it.
One thing that's absolutely spectacular about Tommy is its musical adaptation. It is currently BACK ON BROADWAY and I was lucky enough to see it. It's a WAY better visual adaptation than the movie, it makes so much more sense, and the performances are amazing. It debuted in 1993 so if you're curious, definitely go listen to the original broadway cast recording. I'm hoping they release a new one for the revival soon. There's no The Wall musical (afaik) and thus no point of comparison, but I had to mention it.
It kind of feels like Tommy and Pink together are like Professor X and Magneto
This is the best comment I've seen on here yet
I grew up on Pink Floyd "The Wall". You know when you turn 13 or 14 years old and you start getting into music, like really getting into music. The album "The Wall was mine. I found it in my mother's records collection. This was the mid 80s. I listened to that album probably 20 times a day for two years straight. I had just started smoking weed back then too, so they kind of went hand in hand. Those songs were the soundtrack to my early teen years. They mean a lot to me.
Thank you for this video Noah! It was beautiful
The use of the B/W 'Withnail' image..... brilliant!
Love them both! And you putting the two albums together in one video is just awesome.
I've tried to get through The Wall 3 times and I feel asleep each time. Tommy was my first experience with avant garde films like this. Great cameos on Tommy!
This video kicks ass. Quadrophenia next??!!??
A breakdown analysis of Frank Zappa Joe's Garage would be epic on this channel.
By far your best video! Enjoyed every moment, immensely! It was comprehensive, solidly researched, and supportive of each major claim. All that AND a drop from Frontier Psychiatrist ?! Excellent job!
Long drawn out comment about personal experience with a big thanks to Polyphonic for being the best to eva do it, keep scrolling.
I listened to both albums early in high school and they hugely inspired my musical taste, however I can’t say I listen to either much nowadays. In my age I’ve started to view Tommy as a psyched out fever dream that didn’t age well but the music is amazing (I LOVE the Overture it’s a rock masterpiece). I see The Wall as a musician moaning about how hard his life is and how cynical he is, and the music that once hit for me on The Wall doesn’t as much nowadays. I will say that I experienced a Wall like scenario in my life while I was at school and it makes it harder to hear, so on a level I relate but I also don’t at all. To add, a track off The Wall shuffled into my Spotify recently: ‘The Show Must Go On’. If there were ever a more beautiful song about anxiety. That is one I overlooked in the past and have come to love. But really the impact of these two albums were short lived for me as towards the end of my high school days I found Quadrophenia, an album that I related with so hard back then and almost became an anthem of the depressive episodes throughout my life. But I would still hold it as the greatest rock opera of all time, even if it’s through story isn’t great either. More recently (2 years ago now) I listened to The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, and that is another fantastic musical album but I can’t stand the story with in. It has made me detest the idea of a rock opera with not being satisfied with the whole story of any of these albums but LOVING the musical pieces within. I don’t know what all of this yapping was really for but a writing out of a moment in my life.
Thanks Polyphonic for an amazing vid by far your best to date with concept and visuals. Congrats man.
Seeing this an hour into it - can’t wait to watch it from the beginning 🧱
Quadrophenus is my favorite double and concept album ever. It's brilliant. The power and passion of youth with no creative or positive outlet. All that's left is too drink, fight, and f......
I been waiting for someone to do a video like this, YOU are now legendary
Wow! I have such vivid memories of both of these films. I remember renting Tommy at Blockbuster and not getting it. I remember watching The Wall at my friend's house on Beta Max. It was the first of many. Both of the albums are awesome. I miss album rock.
That was so well done, engaging, thought-provoking, a terrific comparison of two of my favourite concept albums. I hope you do more such comparison videos.
You have my attention.
Brilliant video, Polyphonic !
No other words necessary
Ken Russell deserves much more credit for the fantastic visuals and script - it was his idea to change the era and the production design was excellent - plus all new versions of some great tracks with guest artists and classics in their own right.
i watched the wall mid eighties to see/learn gerald scarfe's animation and art direction,(still the best parts) and its no doubt been burned into my brain, dont need watch it again though, the abusive schooling, effect to later health etc. hits home too hard in places, not forgotten, dont need a reminder, but shows how strong the concept worked to get the thought accross in musical and visual form, its too dark to listen to now but i already memorised all the tunes they sometimes come back as ear"worms" 😊
My older sister (13 years older) took me to see Tommy when I was 7! She had no idea what the movie was about and it was playing at a local college she was attending. I of course didn't really understand the movie at the time, but loved the music! She did apologize when I was older for bringing me, but I said she didn't have to because I became a huge fan of The Who because of it. I saw The Wall when I was 14 on VHS at my aunt and uncle's with them and my dad. We were all stunned into silence when it was over. They understood the deep meanings of the movie more than I did at the time. I became obsessed with Pink Floyd after watching that movie! I was a child of the 70's and 80's, so I was not sheltered at all from any adult things. I was exposed to so much, it's crazy to reflect on it. But I wouldn't change my childhood, good and bad for nothing...
Brilliantly done. Both of these albums and movies were big for me in the 1990s/2000s.
I have The Wall as a double disc on CD. I see the first disc as building the wall, and the second disc as life inside the wall.
I think the Nietzschean eternal recurrence idea influences both epics. Pink discovers his emergence as a child into the aftermath of another great wall being smashed provides all the raw materials of trauma to build anew. It is the ouroboros. Childlike innocence is corrupted, stolen or squandered in both protagonist's stories, and unexamined the psychological torments reinvents and transforms, sometimes with new victimization and sometimes through a kind of grace or spiritual awakening healing occurs and the earth renews, innocence is if not restored made possible for new generations through healing and wisdom. I admire these works and the many artists that brought them to life.
Haven't finished the video yet, but for the record, I'm starting out pretty firmly on Team The Wall.
As much as I love both of these albums and enjoy looking at the shared ideas/concepts, my favourite will always be Quadrophenia.
It has a more abstract storytelling like the Wall compared to the more straightforward style of Tommy, the more grounded simple story allows for great exploration of the ideas and concepts. I love how each of the band members are represented by one of the 4 themes and personalities, and the music overall across the album might be Townsend's overall best work
To skip conversation, go to 1:02:10
I’d like to see a breakdown of the entire Rush 2112 album. Failing that, can you try and deconstruct Clockwork Angels, the band’s last album?
Both are on my top album list, and I've always seen common things, to the point where I suspected Tommy to be one of the influence for The Wall...
I'm HAPPY you address the topic !
(The Who and Pink Floyd are both within my favorite bands, and are part of the bands for which I got almost all their works.)
Tommy was one of the first movies I ever saw at a very young age, probably far too young to see and interpret it properly. I have a soft spot for it, but The Wall was so much more impactful as I got older. I don't really have a point, just that I love both films and albums dearly.
As two of the biggest albums of my young life (and to various extents, still being so -- though at this point, Tommy has faded from prominence more than The Wall has, for me personally), I'd certainly noticed various parallels between them. Seeing this direct juxtaposition is somehow still beyond what I've ever done, really, and is super interesting. Thanks for diving into this.
Welcome back Polyphonic. Great video.
If you didn't know, there's a sequel to the wall called The Final Cut. It's even more personal and cutting, it's amazing Waters even released it at all. It's not as flashy as the Wall, but what is? But the Final Cut leaves me feeling shook, not the Wall.
I was lucky enough to see Waters perform his updated Wall in 2012, and it was fucking godly. Nothing has even come close to that level of production and live music is my jam, having seen 100s upon 100s of show. Roger Waters = GOAT.
Speaking of concept albums, do you have any breakdowns of Joes Garage by Frank Zappa?
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Such a beautiful video and insightful analysis! Love your channel
some of your best work yet
I love this video. I've actually been thinking a lot about the parallels between these two albums lately, with respect to trauma.
Yes best two albums
The wall is something that I've gone over a few times and you absolutely nailed it, however there's some things that i would like to add.
First, there are songs from the wall that were cut/ that can slot in perfectly into the album. "When the Tigers Broke Free (i think was in the movie) is a song that slots in perfectly and was part of The Final Cut. And personally i like "what shall we do now" over empty spaces. It paints a very clear picture of Pink's mental state at that point in the film/album and was cut due to the limits of Vinyl sizes.
Another fact: there is a second guitarist that has worked on The Wall as well as Animals. He was the man who performed "Is There Anybody Out There?" On the record. His name was Snowy White.
Next, i want to touch on the debate about "Comfortably Numb" and the meaning behind it because this is something that will never end due to the band members directly being quoted, "conspiracy theories" around it, and more. To start, its widely known that Rogers wrote the lyrics and Gilmour wrote the music.
My guitar teacher has met just about everyone when it comes to the biggest names in rock. Hes got a white Strat with 30+ signatures on it that he will never play and rooms full of signed pictures with artists. He has direct contact with David Gilmour. And he has asked about the writing of Comfortably Numb.
From what i was told, Gilmour talks about a somewhat similar experience to Rogers. He had a knee injury and was often injected with painkillers before shows and it occasionally had adverse effects. My interpretation of this is that he used that experience to fuel how he composed the song and the kind of emotion he puts into his performance.
Edit: finally finished the video. Great job going over "The Final Cut." You may have touched on it briefly but most neglect to mention how it not only feels like a Rogers solo project but a Prologue to The wall.
As for the discussion in the end, i have a few issues but nothing that's really important. The first is the talk about the portrayal of women in the albums always being negative. These albums were written in a very different time. Same goes for the "lining up Qu**rs against the wall" part. Homosexuality was not widely accepted at this time. But I don't like how she tried to attempt to tie this to modern day society and indirectly sort of insinuate that the right does this kind of thing. It doesn't happen and hasn't happened for decades in advanced societies. Same as the "we live in a patriarchy" part as well. Though some remnants of that era still stand, most of that is gone. Insinuating that the portrayal of women in the late 70s (technically more like 60s since the albums are done from the perspective of a post war era) is a 1 to 1 representation of modern society 50 years later is disingenuous.
When I first started listening to The Wall more intently, I was in deep dire straights, mentally. It was right around the time a certain virus made its presence known, and I was frightened of what the future could hold. I even did a series of drawings based off of each song in the album.
I also see a bit of myself in Pink's story, with him growing up in post WW2 England, and me growing up in post 9/11 America. Eventually, I reached out to a good friend of mine about how I feel. And I also did therapy for a bit. I'm a little bit more outgoing, but I still have this creeping dread that lingers in the back of my mind.
That was a spectacular essay. Thank you.
What amazes me is the wall was originally intended as a Waters solo project. But the band quickly realized they were broke and needed to pump out an album fast, Waters that already done quite a bit of work on the wall so the band voted just take it from there, as it were. This is likely the main cause of the battle that ensued between band members, as Waters never stop thinking of it as a deeply personal solo project.
Gilmour seemed more interested in keeping up their professional standing in the world of rock and roll, and as water's got more and more carried away Gilmore likely saw this an artistic folly
5:29 - Actually the group The Pretty Things began work in 1967-68 on their concept album S. F. Sorrow about S.F. Sorrow, a man who slowly lost everything in life and then a man Barron Saturday, teaches him to remove his eyes and realize the whole world is lonely and untruthful. It's not much of a story but it musically and lyrically inspired Pete as they were working in the same recording studios at one point and Pete asked for an early rough mix of it.
I just watched the first minute, then looked it up on Nebula.
I've got so many comments on this video,
but I'll limit myself to just one.
David Gilmour was brought into Pink Floyd
as a safety net (and friend) when Syd started
to behave more and more erratically on stage.
Sometimes he would just stand there,
like frozen, gazing into the horizon.
In fact Syd was never formally fired from the band.
At one point they just decided to not
pick him up on their way to a gig.
So in practice he's still a member of the band.
Talk about absent friends.
Very interesting discussion at
the end of the Nebula video.
Thanks for yet another interesting video,
on a sublect close to my heart.
✌✌
What a wonderful essay!
Another two Rock Opera that have similar stories and came out in the same year is the Crimson Idol by WASP and Streets by Savajage
I grew up with hearing The Wall and Dark Side of the Moon around the house (I can't remember if Dad played the who). I haven't seen Tommy but I've seen the school children bits in the The Wall which scared me as a kid.
Brilliant analysis of both albums - thanks so much! The only thing I wish about the film of The Wall, is that the whole thing had been animated by Gerald Scarfe. It would have been an absolute masterpiece.