In Alchemy and Jungian psychology Black = Imperfection, Rawness White = Cleaning, Clarity, Purity Yellow = Conjecture, Testing, Processing, Proving Red = The Truth, Absolution, Individuation, The True Self Blue = Mentality, Introspection, Understanding It's incredible. Persona uses the same motif, look at the front covers of each game side to side and the main color motifs of each game: Black, White, Blue, Yellow, Red.
I KNOW HOLY SHIT I'm consistently impressed both by how much symbolism goes into the games I like, and Caesen's scholarly knowledge of these esoteric subjects It really adds new depth
I'm going back watching them again since theyre doing 2 and 3 and yea it's pretty amazing. And the T-ELOS comment (maybe previous episode?) about T-ELOS meaning complete or perfection 👀
Carl Jung also used the term "nigredo" in a special way regarding the shadow. Look it up. It's worth it. Also the design of the character also can be interpreted according the Jung meaning: "black raven".
I think the origin of "Sayonara Baby" is the Terminator 2 Spanish dub. I'm not sure *why* that particular expression became popular, but it's an alternative to hasta la vista baby. Obviously it fits as an alternative to the Dirty Harry quote "Go ahead, make my day"
It’s so good to see fresh Xenosaga content on here! I love how in depth these episodes are. It’s such an underrated game and I’m glad to see it’s still being discussed 15 years later.
This series on Xenosaga is awesome! I really hope you're gonna go through all the games. Also, remember to watch after Xenosaga II, Xenosaga: A missing year and read the script (although there are videos on RUclips) of Xenosaga: Pied Piper which is a mobile game but it is very important in order to conclude Ziggy's story and understand some scenes in Xenosaga III. Thank you for the passion and dedication you put into creating these contents.
This is so great! I always thought, that Marienkind only refers to the child of Mary, in other words, Jesus, and nothing more. But this actually makes a lot of sense and is very typical of Xenosaga. Throughout the series there are a lot of weird references and names that make sense on first sight for the story and the sound very similar to something you know, or just like something fancy, but they are also references to very niche stories or conspiracies even, which can mean much more. It's also interesting that there are thirteen keys in the tale, leading to thirteen doors.
Agreed, I just assumed Jesus. Also, given that I know they only had emulators, I never understood why the Marienkind casing didn't open when Jr. revealed them all. I guess referencing that story is the reason :)
1:01:00 On Gaignun calling Jr. older: remember that Jr. has a lower number on his hand than Gaignun. (666 vs 669) When I originally played this I just assumed "Gaignan" was a reference to Guinan on Star Trek :P
It's funny how I wrote a comment on like the first episode about just starting the first one and now at episode 7 I finished Xenosaga 3 and I am in absolute tears. Really fun listening to you guys, especially because I don't know much about religion and myths and then you drop something I never heard of and I realize how this or that is adapted later on. Keep it up!
I’m sooo excited for this every week. Thank you guys for doing this. You can not imagine how much this means to me. Xenosaga is still my favorite series and story and one that has influenced me a lot. I hope that you enjoy it enough to cover not only episode I, but all of them through to episode III. It’s one continuous story and it doesn’t make much sense to just stop at the end of episode I.
2 things 1 - i didn't knew about the bullet in japanese that was really funny XD im learning so much with this State of The Arc Podcast, i found by a reference on a video of an alchemyst talking about xenogears and referencing your videos. 2 - albedo being white, negrido being black, and albedo being that crazy and negrido so serious and calm, makes me think about ying and yang, and all the things talked in Xenogears and other references, i think if im remembering right, the white was chaos and instinct, and the black the more self control, more thinking about what to do
Also, I remember from a previous podcast (I think it was Final Fantasy X) they were talking about the alchemical colors and they mentioned that the Nigredo phase is the starting point where you don't even recognize there is a problem and may be in denial whereas the Albedo phase is when you at least recognize there is a problem but don't know what to do about it. It makes a lot of sense if you know how traumatized and confused the character Albedo was when he discovers his brothers don't have the same powers he does and will eventually pass on leaving him alone. It's like his development gets stunted before he can reach the later phases of Citrinitas and Rubedo which causes him to go mad.
Sometimes I think Caesen's forceful application of symbolism is way off, but in the Xeno series he always hits the right note. I hope he can keep this up for the whole series (including the Blade games).
Love these guys, especially Casen. All the same he’s taking the DME addiction thing to ‘Everyone Is Jesus in Purgatory’ levels. If I am not mistaken, Virgil is the ONLY character in all three games that is ever indicated to have DME addiction or consume Realian flesh (I haven’t replayed Jenseits von Gut und Böse in a long time so if anyone else was an addict I can only imagine it was mentioned in the episode and I forgot). Regardless, it’s hilarious how much DME addiction is brought up in these videos. Maybe since they had recently covered Xenogears, the whole Soylent System was still front and center in their minds so anything remotely similar was considered highly important and a plot point likely to be highly relevant in the story and to recur in other characters.
11:35 The Mary’s Child fairy tale is actually central to Shion’s story as a character. I won’t go into detail how that plays out. But hold on tight to the Mary’s child theme and the idea of the thirteenth key. There’s also a parallel to locked doors (which require key codes to open) hidden within the UMN. This parallel is just for fun though, it’s not very symbolic: no hidden meaning.
59:25 Not sure if anyone else already noted this, but to excuse some of the errors in translation, this was one of 8-4's earliest projects they worked on. It's not actually listed in their gameography, but I know John Ricciardi (head of 8-4) said he worked on this game and I could swear I heard in an 8-4 Play podcast that he said it was the first game he worked on (I could be making that up though). And as far as guns go, they're actually based in Japan.
This is great! I played through Xenosaga I and II a long time ago and have been wanting to play III, but forgot most of the story. Now I can just wait until you guys get there and be all caught up. Also if there's ever a live-action Xenoblade movie, Casen has to audition for Reyn. 😄
59:24 Correction: Studio 8-4 - the studio which is responsible for why we got good localizations of Japanese games today - did NOT exist before 2006 and did not localize Xenosaga episodes I and II. And while Xenosaga Episode I had pretty a solid English dub for its time, Episode II sadly goes full bad-PS2-localization-mode. In fact, Xenosaga Episode III was one of the first games Studio 8-4 did right after it was formed. And given the scope of that game's script it might as well be the very first project as well. And imo, it's still one of the best localizations of a Japanese game in English. It might be my rose-tinted glasses and the different perception I had back then, but at that time, there simply was no Japanese game that sounded and felt like it might as well just have been an English production. That's how good the localization was and there was nothing like it before.
You guys are doing a great job picking up the bread crumbs and puzzle pieces for a first time playthrough. Heeavy heavy foreshadowing too. I'm super excited for next week, theres some really interesting stuff coming up i'd love to see you dissect . Small detail. Not only do Albedo and Nigredo share the same model like you pointed out, they also share the same voice actor, Crispin Freeman.
Absolutely love these analyses. Reminds me why I love this series so much and why this cast of characters is amongst my favorite in gaming. Can't express my appreciation for your work enough!
If you look closely at the scene where the hooded guy gave Cherenkov the half PS2, you can see that the hooded guy is Kevin. The game doesn't really hide his face that well.
well I held out as long as I could but I loved this game too much - I finally went ahead of the podcast and just finished the game! I really loved this game this time around. I think 15 year old me just couldn't truly appreciate it.
27:46 This is a running gag throughout the franchise. xD If it wasn't a game which takes dozens of hours, this could be a drinking game. But as funny as that is, it's an important part and actually describes depression.
In response to “why care about the pronunciation of a fictional character’s name”, I’ll share my perspective. Personally, I’ve always liked to learn how foreign words are pronounced by the people who speak said language since that is the original pronunciation. Likewise, I like to know how the original creators intended their fictional word/name to be said, even if it’s in a fictional language. Constructed languages are still just as much languages as natural ones. Also, I find it important to know how to pronounce someone’s name. I know the character doesn’t exist and won’t be offended if I mispronounce their name, but my disbelief has already been suspended lol. If I heard someone mispronounce a friend’s name I’d probably cringe at it, so it’s a similar deal here. I don’t get upset if someone mispronounces my name, but it’s still nice if they say it correctly. I want to note that I’m not saying everyone should pronounce JRPG characters with a Japanese accent or something. By pronouncing it “correctly” I mean as close to the intended pronunciation as you can get with the sounds you know how to make. What I do is similar to Casen’s pronunciation of Citan, where it still uses English language sounds, but takes pronunciation cues from the original Japanese. Now, I’m not mad at anyone who says “sigh-tun” or “tie-dus” especially since those names aren’t said aloud (I actually think “sigh-tun” sounds kinda cool and sometimes say “tie-dus” too), but personally I prefer “si-tan” and “tee-dus”. If the game has voice acting, there’s less of an excuse to pronounce it wrong since you can literally hear it (obvious exception towards Casen’s case where he’s playing with JP audio so he doesn’t know the canon English pronunciation). I can understand that those who picked some pronunciation as a kid and solidified it in their mind which is why they have a hard time switching to another way of saying it. I’ll probably always pronounce Bangaa as “bung-aah” since I read it like a Hindi word and it sounds more natural to me (though I know it’s probably not what they intended).
loving these episodes! iv'e started replaying the game myself to relive the magic. based on what you said at the end there, i'm hoping that means you will explore all three games in the series.
Loving this series. Xeno games are some of my absolute favorite and I love watching your theories evolve as you learn more of this game. Lol. I do have a lore tidbit that should help some of your confusion. In case nobody has mentioned it yet. It has to do with your confusion over why soldiers bother to fight Gnosis at all, and why AGWS even exist. So it's true that Gnosis don't interact with the material world. They can pass through objects and exist in space and generally break the laws of physics. So why can they kill and destroy material things? How can they absorb weapons and mechs? If they exist entirely apart from matter, then matter shouldn't effect them either, right? Well the answer is that they are material sometimes. It isn't a conscious choice on their part, exactly, to become material for those moments but it happens as part of what they are. Not gonna elaborate more at the moment, but there is a reason for it that instinct/phenomena. Regardless, because they have to be material to attack humans, there is a window where they can be hurt. It isn't enough to actually kill a Gnosis usually, since they'll return to being intangible almost immediately, but it can cause them to flinch or drive them off. There are also other things that can affect them indirectly, like a large explosion or shattering the environment they are currently interacting with. You'll notice that all the times we see people fighting non-Hilbert Effected Gnosis, it's in the tactic of 'shoot hella tons of bullets at that thing' or it's using energy weapons which aren't exactly a material weapon. This is why you get the salt stuff that comes up in this stretch of the game. They sort of catalyze as salt in the physical world. It's a bit strange, but that's why the attempts to fight them off. It's a desperate hope, but it is possible to delay or drive off Gnosis with physical weapons, even as their normal state. The Hilbert Effect was developed to allow for a much more reliable way of fighting them without resorting to extremely powerful and expensive weapons like the Durandal's weaponry.
1:10:43 There is a little bit more about that, that you missed. (Edit: I removed the clip, because of what SRS Writer wrote. I can't find any version of that clip that's not 16:9 anymore) When I first played it, I was sure who it is because of his hair. And what happened after made me even more confused why he did what he did. There is only one character, we know - and I won't say the name, you have to draw the conclusions yourselves - with dark blue smooth slightly longer hair. And right after he gives Cherenkov that controller, Cherenkov says "So you're the...". After he receives it, he continues "I trust this will work correctly?" and in the end before he realizes that the hooded man already disappeared again, he askes "But ... why?" "So you're the..." means that he is something as being a part of the team at Vector. And "But ... why?" is the biggest question I had for quite a long time. He gave Cherenkov the controller knowing what would happen if the military just busts into their lab and activates KOS-MOS like that, so why did he do it? Cherenkov's "why" in that moment was more a question why he would betray his colleagues. I guess he didn't even take any money from that. But knowing the scene that comes after, for the player it's the question why he would do something so dangerous to not only Shion but himself as well. And I don't think that the controller malfunctioned. He just couldn't turn her off fast enough and didn't think that this would happen. It was only there to activate her, which worked.
SPOILERS for the above comment. The HD/emulated version in this clip is pulled out more so you can see more of the character model of the hooded person. In non HD ps2 versions (which they are most likely playing), you see less of the person's face. They could still guess who it is, but the clip you provided gives more explicit shots of the person's face than the version they're using. Not your fault, but just letting them know if they see your comment.
Jr.'s Alias is Gaignun Kukai Jr. because due to reasons he is incapable of aging and the names you referenced to the alchemic process is important remember those words cause they are important Names also hand numbers dictate birth order as it were hehehe
I don't know much about alchemy but it's interesting that Albedo and Negredo's names are references to the states of alchemy. A bit of a spoiler about this below. Also this part is a bit of a drag because it's building up to the second half of the game, but there's still a lot to talk about even in this brief respite between the halves of the game. I honestly though the 4th URTV's, who is introduced in the next game, name was really weird by comparison to the others, but it's just pretty different sounding from the other elements of alchemy. It makes a heck of a lot of sense why they were named that now, and I just thought it was to do with their hair color for the longest time. These games go pretty deep with their symbolism and names especially are deliberately picked from what they are saying.
Actually, it is the Spanish dub. The whole point of it is that he's saying something cool in a foreign language. This is why "hasta la vista" couldn't be used in the Spanish dub and they had to go with a different language.
@@WildMatsu Ohh really? Maybe I'm mixing it up then. I know the Japanese dub says something in English for their dub. So that's my bad for mixing them up.
My assumption for Jr's "sayonara, baby" is that it's a reference to "hasta la vista, baby" from Terminator 2 (similar to the Dirty Harry reference) but subbing in the Japanese "sayonara" instead. Not sure why other than using Japanese just because, or maybe the localization team thought the original sounded silly, but it fits Jr's whole thing of being a movie nerd.
Love your work as always! One reason people do get upset about mispronounced words is because it can be done out of disrespect or racism, which of course is not intended here but it's a way to make fun of someone.
The more you try to hide something, the more others want to discover it is called the streisand effect. Since you guys were talking about Mary and the doors. It was coined in 2001 from the singer from her last name.
Maryinkind refers to the original Zohar so the original plus 12 emulators that were created by Mizrahi. Thats why they refer to the emulator they acquired as the final one, with just the original sealed on old miltia. You can compare it to Xenogears which had 12 anima relics but welltall was not in possession of an anima relic as it was instead eventually connected to the Zohar modifier which represents the original Zohar while the emulators represent the 12 anima relics. I would warn you not to look this up because you could easily be spoiled to some things about the Zohar emulators that aren't revealed until Episode 2. Hope that makes thing a bit more clear. Keep up the awesome job.
First, I alawys had the impression that there are 12 emulators and the original and that Marienkind is the spot for the Zohar. Base on that it's saying Zohar is God based on the Marienkind story if behind the 13th door is the Holy Trinity which is the Father (Soul) Son (Body) and Holy Ghost (Spirit) of God. Three parts seperate and one all at the same time. Which leads me back to the Wave Existence of Xenogears again. So in the past, "God" was found where humans originated, our Garden, and what happens, we've lost Earth. We've been banished from it for finding more Knowledge.
Regarding “Sayonara, baby”, it might be a reference to the Spanish dub of Terminator 2. In that dub, “hasta la vista, baby” is replaced with “sayonara, baby”.
Can’t spoil it for now but you might miss it later, remember that the scorpion of the zodiac could also be an eagle depending on the time period you’re talking about. He’s the negredo and the “eagle” of the group and junior is the rubedo and the “____” of the group. Think about that sign and you’ll get a cool insight to him in the trilogy, especially with his weird quirks you’ll see
02:50 Thats a E.S. class gear. 44:10 the father with a "larger" number than the "son"... 01:07:25 wasn´t that Allen drowning? 01:45:10 oh man... Albedo is so fed in the head
I think I used to say "do you want to come over" meaning to my house and playing was implied but even that I stopped saying after middle school so it lasted a bit longer than do you want to play.
Great episode as always guys! I'm pretty sure the reference to Junior being able to talk to the "Kaiser" is referencing Gaignun/Nigrego. This may be yet another movie reference; Gaignun has yet another fake cover story that the game doesn't really get into (but you can find in the database) where he is the son of a guy called "Soze Gaignun". Soze... Kaiser... flip those around and you have Kaiser Soze, the well known "villain" from the movie The Usual Suspects. Also, since you mentioned in this in previous episodes, this is the episode where the English dub voice actor for Jet Black in Cowboy Bebop (Beau Billingslea) finally shows up, he's playing Representative Helmer. Also interesting of note, which may not necessarily be apparent right away when comparing the appearances of Gaignun and Albedo is that they share the same voice actor; Crispin Freeman in English, and Koichi Yamadera in Japanese who was the Japanese voice actor for Spike in Cowboy Bebop. Spike's English dub actor doesn't appear in this game but will show up later in Episode III and possibly Episode II (I can't recall for that one). I'm doing a replay of the entire series and am already most of the way through Episode II but haven't come across him yet. Interesting stuff on the alchemy stuff, including something you mentioned that I wasn't aware of, but also has some relevance eventually.
Just a sidenote. I have a bachelors in biblical studies with a minor in biblical languages, along with a master of divinity. I know Greek and Hebrew decently, and Cason is pronouncing cosmos correctly, at least as far as the original koine Greek is concerned. The Greek word has two omicron, which make a short vowel sound. The long vowel sound would require the omega.
The “Sayonara Baby” thing is a reference to Terminator 2 (I believe) A thing I noticed: in the hangar of the Durandal there is a pattern on a wall that looks like V I V I V I... VI is 6 in roman numerals, so maybe this is a 666 reference.
i wonder if you guys will do a comparison between the English and the Japanese, from what i remember the NA ver was heavily censored? Also Pandora's box was opened bc of the search for the unknown , one could even say lust for knowledge aka Gnosis, i was going to draw some parallels between an event that happens in Saga and what happens to the Edlritch, but i dont want to spoil anything.
I can't recall if the script itself was censored in anyway, but they absolutely censor some stuff in all 3 games. It's not too bad in the first 2 games but the censoring makes 2 very important scenes in Episode III extremely confusing. Shouldn't be too hard to do a comparison of the notable scenes. They haven't reached the notable one for Episode I yet.
Mike is starting his Walter white arc "CASEN! CAAAAASEN! BE CAREFUL ABOUT PRONUNCIATION OR RUclips COMMENTORS MIGHT GET ANGRY EVEN THOUGH ITS DUMB!" great episode as always guys lol
Does anyone know if these guys have an opinion on Lobotomy Corp? The more I watch this the more the similarities (From a certain point of view) seem striking.
It's a tough dungeon, I remember really struggling the first time I played the game. Don't forget to upgrade your Tech attacks is my best piece of advice. As Dee Doubs says, upgrading your Ether attacks is good too, and easily missable. If you put any money into your AGWS, don't be afraid to use them, there are some shoulder weapons that hit all enemies which is nice for this part of the game.
*Note ive never played Xenosaga* I'm kinda worried that some of the mystery and plot points wont be resolved until the next episodes (actual games). Really hoping the manage to wrap it all up in this one game, but I know that it's a trilogy.
I'll save you the suspense: the vast majority of mysteries in this game aren't resolved in Episode 1. As a matter of fact, most of them aren't until Episode 3. The thing is you have to think the entire trilogy as one single story divided in 3 chapters, not 3 sequential stories.
very little will be resolved in episode 2, and what is, is not done in a very satisfying way because they brought in a new writers. episode 3 is where the story is more or less wrapped up, and most of the biggest mysteries will remain mysterious until near the end of episode 3
As everyone is saying, the mysteries are definitely not resolved in this game, but I will say that 1 doesn't end on a brutal cliffhanger or anything. You definitely want to know the answers to things, but the game does come to a fairly natural endpoint.
On the idea of how people pronounce things, I can get mildly irritated at certain pronunciations. But generally it doesn't bother me too much. Mike said he couldn't understand why it bothers people, my example of this is how the doctor talks to data in season 2 of start Trek TNG. She asks data what the difference is between the pronunciations, and he responds that one is his name. So I can understand it bugging people in some situations. Like with your pronunciation of gaignun, it differs from the game. In the game, the second "g" is silent (gai-nun). As a person who has played all of the games and heard the in game pronunciation so much, hearing it pronounced differently, just feels off. It doesn't bug me too much but I notice it each time
....It isn't bastardized. It's translated. It's from the Spanish dub of terminator 2. The point of the quote is that part of it is said in another language. So of you're already speaking Spanish, you have to translate it into a different language in order to still have the same effect of the original quote.
There are a few notable gatekeeper bosses. Cherenkov in particular is known for giving people a hard time if they are not prepared for him. I don't think Xenosaga is particularly hard game overall though.
This is part of who Kaiser is its not completely imparative to the main story if you guys are doing a full 100% playthru this will be a spoiler if you are just hitting the story beats you might miss this Kaiser is I believe Erde Kaiser a powerful mech that I believe Jr. is able to connect to and is ultimate attack in this game and a running them in the series their are 4 but only the first appears in this game
maybe it's unrelated, but the (horrible) spanish dub of Terminator 2 "translated" the line "hasta la vista, baby" as "sayonara, baby". maybe they thought it would be funny to replace the Dirty Harry line with a badly translated version of a Terminator line?.
I wish you guys would check the database when you have questions in your notes - it really does often answer exactly the ones you end up asking. A little frustrating on this particular series that you guys don't use it as a resource more! It'll clarify a lot and it'll enrich the discussion. Love your guys work and I am a patron, but I think not using the database is a miss on this game and hurts the experience for me - it has you guys asking basic worldbuilding questions that the in-game wiki readily answers, and hurts the pacing of the show. I should note I remember you guys bringing this database up in comparison to FFXIII which I think is also a little unfair. The story of Final Fantasy XIII is still weak and incoherent even if you religiously read the database as it updates (I know this because that's exactly what I did). Ironically, for a game where characters are doomed by their "focus," FFXIII suffers from not having a particularly focused story or setting. The database just ends up adding to the confusion in FFXIII. FFXIII has ADHD, and doesn't really seem to know what it wants to be, and fails to paint a convincing or compelling world, though it tries. In Xenosaga, it's quite the opposite. The world is well-realized, and the story is intricately constructed. But because the world it operates in is complex, it requires a little more delving into its lore to really appreciate. With FFXIII the database IS a crutch for an otherwise weak experience. In Xenosaga, it enriches an already rich experience. This post is in the spirit of constructive criticism from someone's who's been along for the ride since your Xenogears show so plz accept in the spirit that it's given.
Many of these questions are not ones that come up when note taking. They come up during the conversation while recording. The database is used to look up answers generally for the follow up episode. This has been done multiple times now.
@@michaelcoraybrown Fair enough, I'm still watching the show and enjoying the discussion. This may be more of an issue because both of you are playing blind which hasn't been the case before. keep up the good work! Additional note: I wrote that comment before finishing the episode so after finishing it, I do want to make a positive note: I think you having played ahead of Casen this time helped the pacing quite a bit, as well, mitigating my initial complaint. Perhaps good idea to keep doing? I do hope I didn't come off as being overly negative, since I appreciate the work you guys do and I know it's difficult and you have other things going on. regardless of any issues I bring up, I'm happy this game is getting this level of attention and analysis from you and this podcast truly is a gift.
@@orcbrand Yeah, I understand. I tried to warn people about this multiple times before putting Xenosaga up for vote on patreon. Additionally, I spoke at length about what to expect from an analysis of Xenosaga in the first episode of this podcast series. I tried to tell people it wouldn't be the same as Xenogears. Ultimately, I'm really proud of how it has gone so far despite my initial hesitancy to analyze a game I hadn't played before. The reason why I do this podcast is to break down and understand what a game's story is really about at its core--not to make sure I explain every point of world-building and lore with perfect accuracy. With that as my intention and goal, I feel like we've done far better than I expected. I honestly feel like any talk about plot points, lore, or world-building are tangential to our purpose and easy to look over when we've made it clear it is the first playthrough for both of us.
@@michaelcoraybrown I agree, you've been knocking it out of the park. Your show has set the standard for all other gaming podcasts for me and I look forward to every Wednesday to hear more from you. Thank you for your thoughtful and quick response as well, I didn't really expect one so i was pleasantly surprised to get the notification. On that note, this conversation has given me the impetus to join the discord [I'm just not a fan of the app so I have been hesitant to], as I'd love to help you guys improve this show further and that's probably a better place for feedback than the comments section :)
Surprised none of them brought up the connection that the hooded figure that gave the controls to the Architect was Kevin. I mean the blue hair with the single strand kinda gives it right away. I don't think it's spoilerly. But maybe they just missed it?
They totally missed it... And I think it's spoilery at this point, so I'd just put a spoiler warning. I mean, keep in mind that person has only had literally one scene on screen in the entire game. I really don't think it was supposed to be obvious just yet. I always thought that the whole secrecy around that character was a miscalculation from Monolithsoft. They wrote the story before the Internet truly exploded, and fan speculation was far smaller. But after Episode 1 came out, fan forums became a thing and fan discord turned something that was most probably meant to be just a vague suspicion into full-blown fan common knowledge.
@@XanderVJ Sorry if it was spoilerly, I'm just guessing from what I remember from when I was 14. I've only played episode 1 way back in the day, none of the others. If they move on to episode 2 and 3 I might play episode 1 again before tackling those other games. I donno, the whole first half kinda throws Kevin under the bus. How he is questioning what he is making, how he hid stuff from Shion in it's construction, or how he died trying to save her. I mean he's the only guy with blue hair shown so far I think. The only other one I think comes close is that bad guys apprentice from a couple episodes ago?
@@Mawnster73 It's not a spoiler. They clearly show ya it's Kevin by the hair. It's not a big deal. It's not like I gave any motivation, not like it matters much since he is dead. I just said it's clearly Kevin in the flashback. You guys eluding to more is ruining it way more then I did. Like, you guys are even spoiling it for me. Because clearly now he means something more that the little bit I eluded to.
No, there are 13 emulators. One of them is different from the other twelve though. You can read about it on the wiki. The reason it exists isn't really revealed in XS1 though.
In Alchemy and Jungian psychology
Black = Imperfection, Rawness
White = Cleaning, Clarity, Purity
Yellow = Conjecture, Testing, Processing, Proving
Red = The Truth, Absolution, Individuation, The True Self
Blue = Mentality, Introspection, Understanding
It's incredible. Persona uses the same motif, look at the front covers of each game side to side and the main color motifs of each game: Black, White, Blue, Yellow, Red.
I can’t believe you guessed Jr.’s name based on your knowledge of alchemy. That’s amazing.
I KNOW HOLY SHIT
I'm consistently impressed both by how much symbolism goes into the games I like, and Caesen's scholarly knowledge of these esoteric subjects
It really adds new depth
Spoilers for episode II:
And Citrine as well. XD (1:21:00)
That's Casen, ladies and gentlemen
I'm going back watching them again since theyre doing 2 and 3 and yea it's pretty amazing. And the T-ELOS comment (maybe previous episode?) about T-ELOS meaning complete or perfection 👀
Best part of the week!
Best part of my week.
Learning about the connection between rubedo and the Philosophers' Stone kinda blew my mind.
Carl Jung also used the term "nigredo" in a special way regarding the shadow. Look it up. It's worth it. Also the design of the character also can be interpreted according the Jung meaning: "black raven".
I think the origin of "Sayonara Baby" is the Terminator 2 Spanish dub. I'm not sure *why* that particular expression became popular, but it's an alternative to hasta la vista baby. Obviously it fits as an alternative to the Dirty Harry quote "Go ahead, make my day"
I checked it out Spanish dub really does say sayonara baby its so random and funny lol
It’s so good to see fresh Xenosaga content on here! I love how in depth these episodes are. It’s such an underrated game and I’m glad to see it’s still being discussed 15 years later.
This series on Xenosaga is awesome! I really hope you're gonna go through all the games. Also, remember to watch after Xenosaga II, Xenosaga: A missing year and read the script (although there are videos on RUclips) of Xenosaga: Pied Piper which is a mobile game but it is very important in order to conclude Ziggy's story and understand some scenes in Xenosaga III.
Thank you for the passion and dedication you put into creating these contents.
The Marienkind part was really interesting, I just always thought they didn’t want to say “Jesus”.
My wife and I are really enjoying your podcast and playing alongside you guys! Can’t wait for the next episode!
"It's nothing" is pretty much Shion's catch phrase. And not by accident.
Nah, I'm sure she's the normal one who is just very heartless and cold, ha ha.
This is so great! I always thought, that Marienkind only refers to the child of Mary, in other words, Jesus, and nothing more. But this actually makes a lot of sense and is very typical of Xenosaga. Throughout the series there are a lot of weird references and names that make sense on first sight for the story and the sound very similar to something you know, or just like something fancy, but they are also references to very niche stories or conspiracies even, which can mean much more.
It's also interesting that there are thirteen keys in the tale, leading to thirteen doors.
Agreed, I just assumed Jesus. Also, given that I know they only had emulators, I never understood why the Marienkind casing didn't open when Jr. revealed them all. I guess referencing that story is the reason :)
1:01:00 On Gaignun calling Jr. older: remember that Jr. has a lower number on his hand than Gaignun. (666 vs 669)
When I originally played this I just assumed "Gaignan" was a reference to Guinan on Star Trek :P
It's funny how I wrote a comment on like the first episode about just starting the first one and now at episode 7 I finished Xenosaga 3 and I am in absolute tears.
Really fun listening to you guys, especially because I don't know much about religion and myths and then you drop something I never heard of and I realize how this or that is adapted later on. Keep it up!
Wow, you got through them quick. I started a replay of the series when they began too and am near the end of episode II. I thought I was far ahead!
I’m sooo excited for this every week. Thank you guys for doing this. You can not imagine how much this means to me. Xenosaga is still my favorite series and story and one that has influenced me a lot. I hope that you enjoy it enough to cover not only episode I, but all of them through to episode III. It’s one continuous story and it doesn’t make much sense to just stop at the end of episode I.
2 things
1 - i didn't knew about the bullet in japanese that was really funny XD im learning so much with this State of The Arc Podcast, i found by a reference on a video of an alchemyst talking about xenogears and referencing your videos.
2 - albedo being white, negrido being black, and albedo being that crazy and negrido so serious and calm, makes me think about ying and yang, and all the things talked in Xenogears and other references, i think if im remembering right, the white was chaos and instinct, and the black the more self control, more thinking about what to do
Also, I remember from a previous podcast (I think it was Final Fantasy X) they were talking about the alchemical colors and they mentioned that the Nigredo phase is the starting point where you don't even recognize there is a problem and may be in denial whereas the Albedo phase is when you at least recognize there is a problem but don't know what to do about it. It makes a lot of sense if you know how traumatized and confused the character Albedo was when he discovers his brothers don't have the same powers he does and will eventually pass on leaving him alone. It's like his development gets stunted before he can reach the later phases of Citrinitas and Rubedo which causes him to go mad.
Literally JUST finished playing where you guys ended up this week! Pumped for the ep!
Awesome! I hope you enjoy the game so far. It’s still after all these years my favorite series. :3
@@CycloneFox same
Sometimes I think Caesen's forceful application of symbolism is way off, but in the Xeno series he always hits the right note. I hope he can keep this up for the whole series (including the Blade games).
Love these guys, especially Casen. All the same he’s taking the DME addiction thing to ‘Everyone Is Jesus in Purgatory’ levels. If I am not mistaken, Virgil is the ONLY character in all three games that is ever indicated to have DME addiction or consume Realian flesh (I haven’t replayed Jenseits von Gut und Böse in a long time so if anyone else was an addict I can only imagine it was mentioned in the episode and I forgot). Regardless, it’s hilarious how much DME addiction is brought up in these videos. Maybe since they had recently covered Xenogears, the whole Soylent System was still front and center in their minds so anything remotely similar was considered highly important and a plot point likely to be highly relevant in the story and to recur in other characters.
11:35 The Mary’s Child fairy tale is actually central to Shion’s story as a character. I won’t go into detail how that plays out. But hold on tight to the Mary’s child theme and the idea of the thirteenth key. There’s also a parallel to locked doors (which require key codes to open) hidden within the UMN. This parallel is just for fun though, it’s not very symbolic: no hidden meaning.
"Marienkind" makes me think of another major story-related thing as well, but I won't say it due to spoilers.
@@quiddity131 I totally get it, it’s a very apt observation too.
59:25 Not sure if anyone else already noted this, but to excuse some of the errors in translation, this was one of 8-4's earliest projects they worked on. It's not actually listed in their gameography, but I know John Ricciardi (head of 8-4) said he worked on this game and I could swear I heard in an 8-4 Play podcast that he said it was the first game he worked on (I could be making that up though). And as far as guns go, they're actually based in Japan.
This is great! I played through Xenosaga I and II a long time ago and have been wanting to play III, but forgot most of the story. Now I can just wait until you guys get there and be all caught up. Also if there's ever a live-action Xenoblade movie, Casen has to audition for Reyn. 😄
I'm doing the exact same thing lol. I'm not playing through 2 again lmao
@@zachmusicposting1341 Xenosaga 2 doesn´t exist (sarcasm)
59:24 Correction: Studio 8-4 - the studio which is responsible for why we got good localizations of Japanese games today - did NOT exist before 2006 and did not localize Xenosaga episodes I and II. And while Xenosaga Episode I had pretty a solid English dub for its time, Episode II sadly goes full bad-PS2-localization-mode. In fact, Xenosaga Episode III was one of the first games Studio 8-4 did right after it was formed. And given the scope of that game's script it might as well be the very first project as well.
And imo, it's still one of the best localizations of a Japanese game in English. It might be my rose-tinted glasses and the different perception I had back then, but at that time, there simply was no Japanese game that sounded and felt like it might as well just have been an English production. That's how good the localization was and there was nothing like it before.
Man I'm learning so much about the occult with you guys :))))
He does say his name is Gaignun Jr. when he introduces himself to Shion and the group. That's also when he says it's not his real name.
You guys are doing a great job picking up the bread crumbs and puzzle pieces for a first time playthrough. Heeavy heavy foreshadowing too. I'm super excited for next week, theres some really interesting stuff coming up i'd love to see you dissect .
Small detail.
Not only do Albedo and Nigredo share the same model like you pointed out, they also share the same voice actor, Crispin Freeman.
Absolutely love these analyses. Reminds me why I love this series so much and why this cast of characters is amongst my favorite in gaming. Can't express my appreciation for your work enough!
If you look closely at the scene where the hooded guy gave Cherenkov the half PS2, you can see that the hooded guy is Kevin. The game doesn't really hide his face that well.
That sayonara baby at the end was adorable.
well I held out as long as I could but I loved this game too much - I finally went ahead of the podcast and just finished the game! I really loved this game this time around.
I think 15 year old me just couldn't truly appreciate it.
Interesting that you used Jr. model from Xenosaga 2 (which is my fav rendition of him!!). Excited to hear this podcast today at work!!
Some of the musical tracks sounded like ones from Xenosaga III to me as well, although it could be I've just mixed things up in my head.
Coming into this video to say I'm catching up... I'll be conversing with people in real time in like 2 years!!! Talk soon! this is great content!!
I tweeted about this when I saw it, when you win the first boss battle with Jr you see the 666 in the palm. So cool that yall seen this now
Fav episode of the podcast! Its so interesting to listen to and makes the game mean so much more💯🙏🏻
27:46 This is a running gag throughout the franchise. xD If it wasn't a game which takes dozens of hours, this could be a drinking game.
But as funny as that is, it's an important part and actually describes depression.
In response to “why care about the pronunciation of a fictional character’s name”, I’ll share my perspective. Personally, I’ve always liked to learn how foreign words are pronounced by the people who speak said language since that is the original pronunciation. Likewise, I like to know how the original creators intended their fictional word/name to be said, even if it’s in a fictional language. Constructed languages are still just as much languages as natural ones. Also, I find it important to know how to pronounce someone’s name. I know the character doesn’t exist and won’t be offended if I mispronounce their name, but my disbelief has already been suspended lol. If I heard someone mispronounce a friend’s name I’d probably cringe at it, so it’s a similar deal here. I don’t get upset if someone mispronounces my name, but it’s still nice if they say it correctly. I want to note that I’m not saying everyone should pronounce JRPG characters with a Japanese accent or something. By pronouncing it “correctly” I mean as close to the intended pronunciation as you can get with the sounds you know how to make. What I do is similar to Casen’s pronunciation of Citan, where it still uses English language sounds, but takes pronunciation cues from the original Japanese. Now, I’m not mad at anyone who says “sigh-tun” or “tie-dus” especially since those names aren’t said aloud (I actually think “sigh-tun” sounds kinda cool and sometimes say “tie-dus” too), but personally I prefer “si-tan” and “tee-dus”. If the game has voice acting, there’s less of an excuse to pronounce it wrong since you can literally hear it (obvious exception towards Casen’s case where he’s playing with JP audio so he doesn’t know the canon English pronunciation). I can understand that those who picked some pronunciation as a kid and solidified it in their mind which is why they have a hard time switching to another way of saying it. I’ll probably always pronounce Bangaa as “bung-aah” since I read it like a Hindi word and it sounds more natural to me (though I know it’s probably not what they intended).
loving these episodes! iv'e started replaying the game myself to relive the magic. based on what you said at the end there, i'm hoping that means you will explore all three games in the series.
The controller didn't fail, it did work, and achieved its purpose.
Loving this series. Xeno games are some of my absolute favorite and I love watching your theories evolve as you learn more of this game. Lol. I do have a lore tidbit that should help some of your confusion. In case nobody has mentioned it yet. It has to do with your confusion over why soldiers bother to fight Gnosis at all, and why AGWS even exist.
So it's true that Gnosis don't interact with the material world. They can pass through objects and exist in space and generally break the laws of physics. So why can they kill and destroy material things? How can they absorb weapons and mechs? If they exist entirely apart from matter, then matter shouldn't effect them either, right? Well the answer is that they are material sometimes. It isn't a conscious choice on their part, exactly, to become material for those moments but it happens as part of what they are. Not gonna elaborate more at the moment, but there is a reason for it that instinct/phenomena. Regardless, because they have to be material to attack humans, there is a window where they can be hurt. It isn't enough to actually kill a Gnosis usually, since they'll return to being intangible almost immediately, but it can cause them to flinch or drive them off. There are also other things that can affect them indirectly, like a large explosion or shattering the environment they are currently interacting with. You'll notice that all the times we see people fighting non-Hilbert Effected Gnosis, it's in the tactic of 'shoot hella tons of bullets at that thing' or it's using energy weapons which aren't exactly a material weapon. This is why you get the salt stuff that comes up in this stretch of the game. They sort of catalyze as salt in the physical world. It's a bit strange, but that's why the attempts to fight them off. It's a desperate hope, but it is possible to delay or drive off Gnosis with physical weapons, even as their normal state. The Hilbert Effect was developed to allow for a much more reliable way of fighting them without resorting to extremely powerful and expensive weapons like the Durandal's weaponry.
Ruuuuubedo. Crispin Freeman's delivery of that name is etched on my mind, lol.
1:10:43 There is a little bit more about that, that you missed. (Edit: I removed the clip, because of what SRS Writer wrote. I can't find any version of that clip that's not 16:9 anymore)
When I first played it, I was sure who it is because of his hair. And what happened after made me even more confused why he did what he did. There is only one character, we know - and I won't say the name, you have to draw the conclusions yourselves - with dark blue smooth slightly longer hair. And right after he gives Cherenkov that controller, Cherenkov says "So you're the...". After he receives it, he continues "I trust this will work correctly?" and in the end before he realizes that the hooded man already disappeared again, he askes "But ... why?"
"So you're the..." means that he is something as being a part of the team at Vector. And "But ... why?" is the biggest question I had for quite a long time. He gave Cherenkov the controller knowing what would happen if the military just busts into their lab and activates KOS-MOS like that, so why did he do it? Cherenkov's "why" in that moment was more a question why he would betray his colleagues. I guess he didn't even take any money from that. But knowing the scene that comes after, for the player it's the question why he would do something so dangerous to not only Shion but himself as well.
And I don't think that the controller malfunctioned. He just couldn't turn her off fast enough and didn't think that this would happen. It was only there to activate her, which worked.
SPOILERS for the above comment. The HD/emulated version in this clip is pulled out more so you can see more of the character model of the hooded person. In non HD ps2 versions (which they are most likely playing), you see less of the person's face. They could still guess who it is, but the clip you provided gives more explicit shots of the person's face than the version they're using. Not your fault, but just letting them know if they see your comment.
Alan’s swimsuit 💀
Some very interesting and relevant Alchemy talk this week:)
Jr.'s Alias is Gaignun Kukai Jr. because due to reasons he is incapable of aging and the names you referenced to the alchemic process is important remember those words cause they are important Names also hand numbers dictate birth order as it were hehehe
Casen loves his phallic symbols.
I don't know much about alchemy but it's interesting that Albedo and Negredo's names are references to the states of alchemy. A bit of a spoiler about this below. Also this part is a bit of a drag because it's building up to the second half of the game, but there's still a lot to talk about even in this brief respite between the halves of the game.
I honestly though the 4th URTV's, who is introduced in the next game, name was really weird by comparison to the others, but it's just pretty different sounding from the other elements of alchemy. It makes a heck of a lot of sense why they were named that now, and I just thought it was to do with their hair color for the longest time. These games go pretty deep with their symbolism and names especially are deliberately picked from what they are saying.
I always wondered why the fourth URTV had a name so different than the other three; now listening to what they said here it totally makes sense.
Same, I had no idea. My knowledge of "albedo" was simply how reflective a material is. I didn't know about the alchemy connection.
Wooo boy this episode is THICCC
Sayonara, Baby is the Terminator 2 Spanish dub for Hasta la vista, Baby. (edited, I said Japanese dub and Wild Matsu helped me out).
Actually, it is the Spanish dub. The whole point of it is that he's saying something cool in a foreign language. This is why "hasta la vista" couldn't be used in the Spanish dub and they had to go with a different language.
@@WildMatsu Ohh really? Maybe I'm mixing it up then. I know the Japanese dub says something in English for their dub. So that's my bad for mixing them up.
My assumption for Jr's "sayonara, baby" is that it's a reference to "hasta la vista, baby" from Terminator 2 (similar to the Dirty Harry reference) but subbing in the Japanese "sayonara" instead. Not sure why other than using Japanese just because, or maybe the localization team thought the original sounded silly, but it fits Jr's whole thing of being a movie nerd.
Surprised no one mentioned that the Foundation with the Durandal docked strongly resembles the city of Nisan from Xenogears.
Love your work as always!
One reason people do get upset about mispronounced words is because it can be done out of disrespect or racism, which of course is not intended here but it's a way to make fun of someone.
Admire the dedication.....
The more you try to hide something, the more others want to discover it is called the streisand effect. Since you guys were talking about Mary and the doors. It was coined in 2001 from the singer from her last name.
Maryinkind refers to the original Zohar so the original plus 12 emulators that were created by Mizrahi. Thats why they refer to the emulator they acquired as the final one, with just the original sealed on old miltia. You can compare it to Xenogears which had 12 anima relics but welltall was not in possession of an anima relic as it was instead eventually connected to the Zohar modifier which represents the original Zohar while the emulators represent the 12 anima relics. I would warn you not to look this up because you could easily be spoiled to some things about the Zohar emulators that aren't revealed until Episode 2. Hope that makes thing a bit more clear. Keep up the awesome job.
the Lapel On Geignan's (Nigredo's) lapel coloration and shaping is reminiscent of a Gnosis's type of design as well.
First, I alawys had the impression that there are 12 emulators and the original and that Marienkind is the spot for the Zohar. Base on that it's saying Zohar is God based on the Marienkind story if behind the 13th door is the Holy Trinity which is the Father (Soul) Son (Body) and Holy Ghost (Spirit) of God. Three parts seperate and one all at the same time. Which leads me back to the Wave Existence of Xenogears again. So in the past, "God" was found where humans originated, our Garden, and what happens, we've lost Earth. We've been banished from it for finding more Knowledge.
Regarding “Sayonara, baby”, it might be a reference to the Spanish dub of Terminator 2. In that dub, “hasta la vista, baby” is replaced with “sayonara, baby”.
Can’t spoil it for now but you might miss it later, remember that the scorpion of the zodiac could also be an eagle depending on the time period you’re talking about. He’s the negredo and the “eagle” of the group and junior is the rubedo and the “____” of the group. Think about that sign and you’ll get a cool insight to him in the trilogy, especially with his weird quirks you’ll see
i'm sure a million people have told you, but Sayonara, Baby is what the terminator says as he shoots the enemy robot who was frozen and shatters him.
02:50 Thats a E.S. class gear.
44:10 the father with a "larger" number than the "son"...
01:07:25 wasn´t that Allen drowning?
01:45:10 oh man... Albedo is so fed in the head
I think I used to say "do you want to come over" meaning to my house and playing was implied but even that I stopped saying after middle school so it lasted a bit longer than do you want to play.
Great episode as always guys!
I'm pretty sure the reference to Junior being able to talk to the "Kaiser" is referencing Gaignun/Nigrego. This may be yet another movie reference; Gaignun has yet another fake cover story that the game doesn't really get into (but you can find in the database) where he is the son of a guy called "Soze Gaignun". Soze... Kaiser... flip those around and you have Kaiser Soze, the well known "villain" from the movie The Usual Suspects.
Also, since you mentioned in this in previous episodes, this is the episode where the English dub voice actor for Jet Black in Cowboy Bebop (Beau Billingslea) finally shows up, he's playing Representative Helmer. Also interesting of note, which may not necessarily be apparent right away when comparing the appearances of Gaignun and Albedo is that they share the same voice actor; Crispin Freeman in English, and Koichi Yamadera in Japanese who was the Japanese voice actor for Spike in Cowboy Bebop. Spike's English dub actor doesn't appear in this game but will show up later in Episode III and possibly Episode II (I can't recall for that one). I'm doing a replay of the entire series and am already most of the way through Episode II but haven't come across him yet.
Interesting stuff on the alchemy stuff, including something you mentioned that I wasn't aware of, but also has some relevance eventually.
Just a sidenote. I have a bachelors in biblical studies with a minor in biblical languages, along with a master of divinity. I know Greek and Hebrew decently, and Cason is pronouncing cosmos correctly, at least as far as the original koine Greek is concerned. The Greek word has two omicron, which make a short vowel sound. The long vowel sound would require the omega.
The “Sayonara Baby” thing is a reference to Terminator 2 (I believe)
A thing I noticed: in the hangar of the Durandal there is a pattern on a wall that looks like V I V I V I... VI is 6 in roman numerals, so maybe this is a 666 reference.
Will you guys being covering episode 2 and 3 after you finish episode 1?
i wonder if you guys will do a comparison between the English and the Japanese, from what i remember the NA ver was heavily censored? Also Pandora's box was opened bc of the search for the unknown , one could even say lust for knowledge aka Gnosis, i was going to draw some parallels between an event that happens in Saga and what happens to the Edlritch, but i dont want to spoil anything.
I can't recall if the script itself was censored in anyway, but they absolutely censor some stuff in all 3 games. It's not too bad in the first 2 games but the censoring makes 2 very important scenes in Episode III extremely confusing. Shouldn't be too hard to do a comparison of the notable scenes. They haven't reached the notable one for Episode I yet.
@@quiddity131 The censorship in Episode 1 made some scenes WORSE than what they are in the Japanese version, which is kind of amusing.
@@XanderVJ I absolutely prefer the NA version of the Albedo scene.
"Sayonara Baby" is a movie reference as well.
Arnold says it in Terminator 2.
Only in the Spanish dub... and specifically because it's a Spanish phrase that they wanted to change to make more exotic.
"Sayonara baby" is what Terminator says in the spanish version of Terminator 2 instead of "Hasta la vista baby"
Mike is starting his Walter white arc
"CASEN! CAAAAASEN! BE CAREFUL ABOUT PRONUNCIATION OR RUclips COMMENTORS MIGHT GET ANGRY EVEN THOUGH ITS DUMB!"
great episode as always guys lol
The database has all the answers!
Does anyone know if these guys have an opinion on Lobotomy Corp? The more I watch this the more the similarities (From a certain point of view) seem striking.
$#!+ - Cathedral ship is too dang hard for me right now. Ahh I’m behind ;) Need to spend some TES points!
You just need to transfer Shion's Medica All to whoever your main mage is... unless it's Shion, in which case you just need to get medica all.
It's a tough dungeon, I remember really struggling the first time I played the game. Don't forget to upgrade your Tech attacks is my best piece of advice. As Dee Doubs says, upgrading your Ether attacks is good too, and easily missable.
If you put any money into your AGWS, don't be afraid to use them, there are some shoulder weapons that hit all enemies which is nice for this part of the game.
*Note ive never played Xenosaga* I'm kinda worried that some of the mystery and plot points wont be resolved until the next episodes (actual games). Really hoping the manage to wrap it all up in this one game, but I know that it's a trilogy.
the database in the game even mentions a couple times to stay tuned for the next games (it doesn't exactly say that but might as well have)
I'll save you the suspense: the vast majority of mysteries in this game aren't resolved in Episode 1. As a matter of fact, most of them aren't until Episode 3.
The thing is you have to think the entire trilogy as one single story divided in 3 chapters, not 3 sequential stories.
You’re setting yourself up for disappointment. This first game is entirely setup by design.
very little will be resolved in episode 2, and what is, is not done in a very satisfying way because they brought in a new writers.
episode 3 is where the story is more or less wrapped up, and most of the biggest mysteries will remain mysterious until near the end of episode 3
As everyone is saying, the mysteries are definitely not resolved in this game, but I will say that 1 doesn't end on a brutal cliffhanger or anything. You definitely want to know the answers to things, but the game does come to a fairly natural endpoint.
Wow, Mike changed his haircut radically
Hi Guys, Mike from VSauce here.
@@GRAG3R "Where are your Zohars? 👀"
minor note on pronunciation. Similar to Spanish, Japanese does not have long vowels.
On the idea of how people pronounce things, I can get mildly irritated at certain pronunciations. But generally it doesn't bother me too much. Mike said he couldn't understand why it bothers people, my example of this is how the doctor talks to data in season 2 of start Trek TNG. She asks data what the difference is between the pronunciations, and he responds that one is his name. So I can understand it bugging people in some situations. Like with your pronunciation of gaignun, it differs from the game. In the game, the second "g" is silent (gai-nun). As a person who has played all of the games and heard the in game pronunciation so much, hearing it pronounced differently, just feels off. It doesn't bug me too much but I notice it each time
“Sayonara Baby” is still somewhat a reference to a movie, though. I always took it as a slightly bastardized version of “Hasta la vista, baby”, lol.
....It isn't bastardized. It's translated. It's from the Spanish dub of terminator 2. The point of the quote is that part of it is said in another language. So of you're already speaking Spanish, you have to translate it into a different language in order to still have the same effect of the original quote.
Can you guys mention extremely briefly about the difficulty of the game and problems you had? This game can be difficult!
There are a few notable gatekeeper bosses. Cherenkov in particular is known for giving people a hard time if they are not prepared for him.
I don't think Xenosaga is particularly hard game overall though.
This is part of who Kaiser is its not completely imparative to the main story if you guys are doing a full 100% playthru this will be a spoiler if you are just hitting the story beats you might miss this Kaiser is I believe Erde Kaiser a powerful mech that I believe Jr. is able to connect to and is ultimate attack in this game and a running them in the series their are 4 but only the first appears in this game
I don't think there's any Junior specific connection for the Erde Kaiser stuff, and in this game Shion is the only one who can actually use them.
@@quiddity131 wait seriously they didn't have the system they used in the 3rd game for the first where it was in the Ether list? that kinda sucks
Sayonara baby is terminator reference
I was going to say it last episode, but held off.
You are TV
If you know, you know
The one who chains up the devil in the abyss is Abaddon. Who, in the Bible, is the one who has the keys to the abyss, which is Jesus.
When I clicked on this, it had 666 views. Ironic.
maybe it's unrelated, but the (horrible) spanish dub of Terminator 2 "translated" the line "hasta la vista, baby" as "sayonara, baby".
maybe they thought it would be funny to replace the Dirty Harry line with a badly translated version of a Terminator line?.
I wish you guys would check the database when you have questions in your notes - it really does often answer exactly the ones you end up asking. A little frustrating on this particular series that you guys don't use it as a resource more! It'll clarify a lot and it'll enrich the discussion. Love your guys work and I am a patron, but I think not using the database is a miss on this game and hurts the experience for me - it has you guys asking basic worldbuilding questions that the in-game wiki readily answers, and hurts the pacing of the show.
I should note I remember you guys bringing this database up in comparison to FFXIII which I think is also a little unfair. The story of Final Fantasy XIII is still weak and incoherent even if you religiously read the database as it updates (I know this because that's exactly what I did). Ironically, for a game where characters are doomed by their "focus," FFXIII suffers from not having a particularly focused story or setting. The database just ends up adding to the confusion in FFXIII. FFXIII has ADHD, and doesn't really seem to know what it wants to be, and fails to paint a convincing or compelling world, though it tries. In Xenosaga, it's quite the opposite. The world is well-realized, and the story is intricately constructed. But because the world it operates in is complex, it requires a little more delving into its lore to really appreciate. With FFXIII the database IS a crutch for an otherwise weak experience. In Xenosaga, it enriches an already rich experience.
This post is in the spirit of constructive criticism from someone's who's been along for the ride since your Xenogears show so plz accept in the spirit that it's given.
Many of these questions are not ones that come up when note taking. They come up during the conversation while recording. The database is used to look up answers generally for the follow up episode. This has been done multiple times now.
@@michaelcoraybrown Fair enough, I'm still watching the show and enjoying the discussion. This may be more of an issue because both of you are playing blind which hasn't been the case before. keep up the good work!
Additional note: I wrote that comment before finishing the episode so after finishing it, I do want to make a positive note: I think you having played ahead of Casen this time helped the pacing quite a bit, as well, mitigating my initial complaint. Perhaps good idea to keep doing? I do hope I didn't come off as being overly negative, since I appreciate the work you guys do and I know it's difficult and you have other things going on. regardless of any issues I bring up, I'm happy this game is getting this level of attention and analysis from you and this podcast truly is a gift.
@@orcbrand Yeah, I understand. I tried to warn people about this multiple times before putting Xenosaga up for vote on patreon. Additionally, I spoke at length about what to expect from an analysis of Xenosaga in the first episode of this podcast series. I tried to tell people it wouldn't be the same as Xenogears.
Ultimately, I'm really proud of how it has gone so far despite my initial hesitancy to analyze a game I hadn't played before. The reason why I do this podcast is to break down and understand what a game's story is really about at its core--not to make sure I explain every point of world-building and lore with perfect accuracy. With that as my intention and goal, I feel like we've done far better than I expected. I honestly feel like any talk about plot points, lore, or world-building are tangential to our purpose and easy to look over when we've made it clear it is the first playthrough for both of us.
@@michaelcoraybrown I agree, you've been knocking it out of the park. Your show has set the standard for all other gaming podcasts for me and I look forward to every Wednesday to hear more from you. Thank you for your thoughtful and quick response as well, I didn't really expect one so i was pleasantly surprised to get the notification.
On that note, this conversation has given me the impetus to join the discord [I'm just not a fan of the app so I have been hesitant to], as I'd love to help you guys improve this show further and that's probably a better place for feedback than the comments section :)
You folks have a scammer pretending to be you in the comments offering PCs.
Thought I'd tell you because RUclips can't be bothered to sort this out.
Surprised none of them brought up the connection that the hooded figure that gave the controls to the Architect was Kevin. I mean the blue hair with the single strand kinda gives it right away. I don't think it's spoilerly. But maybe they just missed it?
They totally missed it... And I think it's spoilery at this point, so I'd just put a spoiler warning.
I mean, keep in mind that person has only had literally one scene on screen in the entire game. I really don't think it was supposed to be obvious just yet.
I always thought that the whole secrecy around that character was a miscalculation from Monolithsoft. They wrote the story before the Internet truly exploded, and fan speculation was far smaller. But after Episode 1 came out, fan forums became a thing and fan discord turned something that was most probably meant to be just a vague suspicion into full-blown fan common knowledge.
@@XanderVJ Sorry if it was spoilerly, I'm just guessing from what I remember from when I was 14. I've only played episode 1 way back in the day, none of the others. If they move on to episode 2 and 3 I might play episode 1 again before tackling those other games.
I donno, the whole first half kinda throws Kevin under the bus. How he is questioning what he is making, how he hid stuff from Shion in it's construction, or how he died trying to save her.
I mean he's the only guy with blue hair shown so far I think. The only other one I think comes close is that bad guys apprentice from a couple episodes ago?
This is a huge spoiler based on where they are, you should probably delete your comment in case Mike comes through here
@@Mawnster73 It's not a spoiler. They clearly show ya it's Kevin by the hair. It's not a big deal. It's not like I gave any motivation, not like it matters much since he is dead. I just said it's clearly Kevin in the flashback. You guys eluding to more is ruining it way more then I did.
Like, you guys are even spoiling it for me. Because clearly now he means something more that the little bit I eluded to.
How did these Japanese dudes know so much about western esoteric stuff lol
There are 12 emulators. 13th is the original, thats why the marienkind slot in the ship is in the middle.
No, there are 13 emulators. One of them is different from the other twelve though. You can read about it on the wiki. The reason it exists isn't really revealed in XS1 though.
@@deedoubs They are retrieving the 12 that Mizrahi made. The silver one doesn't count since it wasn't made by him and is considered inferior.
Cintrine exists
Shh.