Review: Harnoncourt's Often Blasphemous Sacred Music Box
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- Опубликовано: 23 июл 2024
- You never know what you're going to get with Harnoncourt, and in this 16-disc Sony box there are some great things (Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Dvořák) and some real duds (Handel, Haydn, Brahms and above all, Verdi). Altogether, about 50% or a bit more belongs on the plus side, but at the price you might not be bothered by the minuses.
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Back when I worked in a record store, I had a customer come in one day asking for a boxed set of the Brahms symphonies. We had two in stock at that moment, one of which was with Harnoncourt conducting the Berlin Philharmonic (it was a new release at the time.) The customer immediately grabbed the other, saying, "period instrument groups have no business playing Brahms." I tried to point out to her that the Berlin Philharmonic is most definitely NOT a period instrument ensemble, but she didn't want to hear it. That's how strong Harnoncourt's reputation as a period instrument purist was in some circles.
Harnoncourt knew the limitations of period performance. Music before Haydn, aside perhaps for Hadel's Messiah, dropped out of the repertory while Haydn and Mozart set the norms for classical performance.
Orchestral play evolved to meet the demands that Haydn and Mozart made explicit. Those standards were not always met.Mozart looks easy, but the intonation, phrasing, and timbre must be perfect. Later composers from Rossini and Beethoven to at least Rautavaara and Penderecki have demanded much the same. We are using a Rachmaninov/Ravel orchestra orchestra for Mozart because such sounds good.The orchestra has evolved for classical and later periods.
Gustav Mahler, a renowned conductor of his time, lamented the quality of musical performance in his time, and not only of his music. Whether he was a jerk or whether he was right is impossible to determine because we have few recordings from his time. We have recordings by Toscanini and Monteux, who were not that much younger than Mahler. Contrary to myth, the quality of orchestral recordings depends heavily on intonation and ensemble and less on the recording process. I once heard a recording of Karajan conducting a Mozart overture in the 1930's, and it sounded amazingly good.
Entertaining talk as always!
I attended the live concert with the Verdi-Requiem, and it was one of the strangest concerts I can remember. Not only all was toned down as if a big sordino was layed over the chorus and the orchestra, there was an atmosphere of church music in the bad sense. In the program folder there was a big essay, which declared that Harnoncourt is convinced that bad opera conductors made a dramatic piece out of the work, which Verdi meant as a meditation about death. There was even an interval to give the public time for spiritual recreation.
Nevertheless, when Harnoncourt was on fire and his weird musicology was congruent with the work, it was just great.
GREAT VIDEO DAVE!!!! I love the Stabat Mater. I will check out Harnoncourt’s interpretation.
Mr. Hurwitz imitation of the Dies Irae from Verdi"s Requiem by Harnoncourt is priceless!
About Mozart 's Requiem: The Dies Irae is such a catchy tune. Maybe you could do a talk about the best and the worst Dies Irae instead of the complete Requiem ;-)
Another great talk! Last year I started revisiting my humble collection. Now I'm listening to Bach cantatas by Harnoncourt and Leonhardt, comparing it with those by Suzuki and Herreweghe. They are all amazing., but I can feel something like pure raw power from Harnoncourt's recordings and I love it. Also I have always loved his Haydn recordings. On the other hand I still don't get his Brahms recordings (neither the requiem nor the symphonies ). There are actually plenty of his recordings that i still don't know what to make of, but I enjoy listening to them. Diversity is always a good thing when it comes to music, i think. Thank you again, Dave!
A fair assessment of a flawed but interesting collection. I'm glad you liked Harnoncourt's Dvorak Stabat Mater, and I agree wholeheartedly with your panning of his Verdi Requiem. What was he thinking? On the whole, though, I have to say that I enjoy Harnoncourt as much for his eccentricities as for his genuine insights. I often wonder to what extent Harnoncourt may have been influenced by Herman Scherchen, under whom he played as a cellist in the Vienna Symphony in the early 1950's. Harnoncourt's approach to Handel's Messiah bears some striking resemblances to Scherchen's--eccentric tempos (in both directions), introspection where one expects celebratory exuberance, flaccid rhythms, tapered phrasing, et. al. Yet both conductors never fail to fascinate even when they are at their most perverse. Which reminds me: you owe us a segment of Herman Scherchen. You can forget the Mozart Requiem, but do give us a talk on Haydn's Masses, including sets. I would be very interested in what your recommendations might be. Those late Masses, in particular, are incomparable masterpieces of the genre and deserve more attention than they sometimes get (and some of the attention they do get on record has been a mixed blessing--e.g., Gardiner and Hickox).
Thanks, Dave. Harnoncourt was just so fascinating, and the comparison with Karajan and his “Von” and this other vaguely aristocratic colleague is very productive! I recall going into the Music and Video exchange in Notting Hill here once and hearing, as it were for the first time, the Bartok Divertimento, and I just said, who the hell is playing this?! It was quite shocking a performance and of course it was Harnoncourt. The erraticness is definitely part of the fascination and when he was on, he was really on
I have the Big Sony Harnoncourt Box. Haven't listened to the Verdi Requiem yet but now I need to, obviously.
H's earlier recording of Messiah on Teldec is also quite, um ... "interesting," "quirky," "perverse," "Harnoncourtish" -- choose your adjective, but I think it works much better than the one in the box and I love it. Makes a refreshing change from English correctness once in a while.
A talk about the Dvorak Stabat Mater would be interesting, as would one about the Berlioz Requiem!
How one genius takes on another genius: fascinating, indeed.
Hi. There's this recording by Harnoncourt of Schmelzer's Sacro Profanus concentus musicus. It happened to be the first piece of classical music I ever listened to when I was a kid. We had a cassette tape of it. It's not very widely available I think. I would love to know your opinion on that work
Fun early baroque stuff.
in my opinion... don't pretend that Die Schoepfung is a sacred work! As for Verdi's Requiem...the Dies Irae must suggest a fearsome calamity such as...being under bombardment.
Why don't you consider "Die Schopfung' a sacred work?
@@markmiller3713 Just don't treat it as a sacred work! Make performances more 'profane' so that it can be enjoyable.
"You may not like Christ on the Mount of Olives, but posterity has judged it to be bad!" (paraphrasing)
That's true, but posterity has also judged the Mozart/Süssmayr Requiem to be a masterpiece! Can't have it both ways.
Sure I can. And I do. No one claims that the Mozart Requiem is a "masterpiece." It's popular and gets played all the time, but Sussmayr's completion has been almost universally dismissed as merely efficient.
Have to agree on "Christ on the Mount of Olives." It is like a slow, boring lead up to a pretty decent final chorus.
And Harnoncourt is far more better than lots of new conductors
Many period performers have their 'academic' quirks to impose upon music at the expense of the music so that they can distinguish themselves, get recognition for their quirks as a pretext for selling recordings, and make bucks in the business. Trying to imitate the practices of someone like George Szell only with period instruments would not be as lucrative even if more musical..
Totally disagree. His faux authenticity was a disgrace for the classics. To use the word in connection with the performance of music and especially to define a style, manner or philosophy of performance, is neither a description nor critique but COMMERCIAL PROPAGANDA.