Great list idea! Some of these games I haven't played or even heard of so it gives me some research to do. Thank you! My top ten heavy games, using your BGG 3.8 criteria: 10. Sankoré: The Pride of Mansa Musa (4.12) 9. Scholars of the South Tigris (4.05) 8. The Great Wall (3.92) 7. Ezra and Nehemiah (3.81) 6. Nucleum (4.14) 5. Weather Machine (4.60) 4. Sabika (3.85) 3. Inventors of the South Tigris (4.24) 2. Voidfall (4.63) 1. Wayfarers of the South Tigris (3.80) Honourable mentions to Anachrony (which would have been 11) and Eclipse: New Dawn for the Galaxy (which would have been 5 but has a BGG weight of 3.77).
Nice to see you redoing this list :) When I played Madeira and also Lisboa within the same week, I had to conclude that "older" games are rated a lot heavier than in the more recent years. I feel like both games would be at like 3.5 now. For example Dani Garcia's Barcelona sits at 3.35 and I feel like it is heavier than either of those. But the 1.0 rule books of Maderia and also Lisboa are pretty, uhm, let's say difficult to read and that might contribute to the perceived weight. I didn't play enough heavier games the last few years, so I can't really put a top 10 list together, so I will just mention some that I enjoy ordered by times played using the 3.8 rule, even thought it feels wrong with quite a few games (e.g. how is Darwin's Journey a 3.9 whilst Tiletum is 3.4 and Beyond the Sun a 3.1?!) Maracaibo Tekhenu Barrage GWT: NZ Sabika Era of Tribes Evacuation Imperial Steam Thanks for the video! :)
You’re so correct how the weight or heaviness of a game is relative to the players’ experience. I remember the first couple times playing GWT, 2nd Ed thinking this was WAY over my head. Now it pretty much bores me.
Great lists (I’d have 4 in common with Johannes and 5 with Sunniva). Haven’t played Lignum or Madeira yet but would like to try both. Really expected Johannes to mention Feudum, but there are a lot of brilliant heavy games.
I would argue that Brass is a heavy game but many of us are so familiar with it and the theme is very well integtated. I feel the depth of decision making / planning is what makes it heavy to me.
For me, heavy game is any game that has 50+ pages rulebook, takes ages to setup and clean up and it takes better half of the day to play it thru. That being said. I'm not really fan of heavy games. Most of them feel like they are complicated just for the sake of being complicated. There's ton of "fast to learn" and/or "fast to setup" games out there that can offer a lot of fun and challenge. And since wife and I got kids I appreciate those kind of games even more.
IMHO, the best games are long and involved, that is, hard to teach and hard to get to the table. My favorite is "Die Macher." I got it to the table once, with six players, and it was an all-day affair. Everyone said they finished with a headache, but nobody had any other complaints. It's a huge commitment, though. Most of the games you mentioned are high on my list. You got me looking for a copy of Cooper Island and maybe Voidfall.
Ohhh. I like this list. Sometimes they seem overwhelming, but when you settle in, they hit! Brass is on my shelf of shame right now but it's coming off soon!
Brass is much lighter than other games on this list or BGG rating suggesting. But I would recommend printing an excellent, one page summary you can find from BGG file section.
My quick and dirty definition of a heavy game is either a game that has very significant rules overhead, or an extremely difficult set of mechanics in order to accomplish goals or score points.
On the other end of it, though... it doesn't make any sense to call Chess or Go 'light' games. Point being that 'Heavy' can/should refer to more than just rules overhead or multiplicity of mechanisms.
Good list! For me, a heavy game is if I start to get headaches because the decisions are so difficult to make 😀 Some favourites: Antiquity, Indonesia, Kanban EV, Evacuation, John Company 2nd Edition, Horseless Carriage … by the way: Small City Deluxe Edition unfortunately had quite some production issues, worst cutting-offset I've seen in years. The graphics were like 2-3mm off centre on some tiles.
@@BoardGamingRamblings means you have a lot of fun ahead! I very much recommend them all. also, my deepest sympathies to one who will read the rules of #1 & 2 ;)
I'm going to write all these down and keep the list so I know what games I never want to play! I've pretty much determined over the years that any game with a difficulty rating of over 3.5 is an absolute hard no for me. Between 3 and 3.5 I'll play if I like the theme or maybe the mechanics, but over 3.5 is more than my poor brain can handle!
The mention of Madeira stings as I unfortunately backed the reprint years (2019) ago. So far the only board game that never deliverd, and sadly never will. :(
So... Weather Machine? ... You say the interaction was increased. Do you mean player interaction? (Because, his games can suffer from lack thereof). Or do you mean the intricacy of mechanisms?
The list of top heavy games, without at least: 1. Robinson Crusoe 2. Frostpunk 3. Gaia Project 4. Cloudspire? Sorry, no. You should definitely play Gaia, before comparing it to Age of Innovation. And try Stellar Horizons and Hoplomachus. There's more to gaming than Lacerda.
We don’t love a lot of coops, and we don’t play solo, so there goes three of them for us, hehe :) I have played Gaia Project 8 times, and love it to bits, but it didn’t fit on this list for me! :) Glad we can all have our own favorites 🥳
@@BoardGamingRamblings , you are entitled to like your games. That's fine. Title of the video should be then "Top 10 heavy games we like/prefer", not just "Top 10 heavy games". I was under the impression you were making a commercial for Lacerda by overlooking some great game designs. There are people watching your clips who are actually going to try some of these games out. And I think it's a shame not to mention these really iconic designs - no matter whether someone likes them personally or not.
I wish I would love Lisboa more. But the shipping and resource value track both feel so underdeveloped for my taste. I will never understand why the resource value ever only goes down. I will also never understand why the ship aspect feels so tacked on. I would play Kanban EV over Lisboa any time of the day because every aspect feels like it needs to be exactly where it is
I hope you have tried 18xx at least, because I’d take issue with people that claim to be heavy gamers but haven’t even played anything from that subset of games.
Never played, and will probably never play! Part of me want to play it once to have experienced it, but I know myself enough to know I will probably not enjoy myself a lot. 😅
I personally like Age of Innovation more! My girlfriend and I have both, and she likes Gaia Project more so we both play them equally as often anyway :D
@@seanschelin243 Can I ask you a question? If my wife didn't love Gaia Project, is there a chance she'll like Age of Innovation? Like, is it sufficiently distinct that I should even try it?
Has Pfister pfallen out of pfavor? Shocked there was no room for Boonlake, Maracaibo, or Great Western Trail: New Zealand. Shocked, I tell ya, just shocked!
I wish I had friends like you guys to play my heavy games with lol
They are harder to get to the table, but I do love them! 🤩
Same here. I play solo friendly heavy games mostly for this reason
Great list idea! Some of these games I haven't played or even heard of so it gives me some research to do. Thank you!
My top ten heavy games, using your BGG 3.8 criteria:
10. Sankoré: The Pride of Mansa Musa (4.12)
9. Scholars of the South Tigris (4.05)
8. The Great Wall (3.92)
7. Ezra and Nehemiah (3.81)
6. Nucleum (4.14)
5. Weather Machine (4.60)
4. Sabika (3.85)
3. Inventors of the South Tigris (4.24)
2. Voidfall (4.63)
1. Wayfarers of the South Tigris (3.80)
Honourable mentions to Anachrony (which would have been 11) and Eclipse: New Dawn for the Galaxy (which would have been 5 but has a BGG weight of 3.77).
Fantastic list! Thank you for sharing 🤩
Great list and your Top Lacerda’s on this list are the ones I developed :)
So how much do you developers contribute that isn't credited to you?
Thank you for all the work 🤩
Great video, especially loved the crossover hands when your closest arms interweave to do the wave : awesomeness 😉
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it 😁
Well now I need to go and play Evacuation. Thanks both. Great video.
Hope you’ll like it! Happy to hear you enjoyed the video 🥳
@BoardGamingRamblings I'm definitely loving Johannes's picks; except Arkwright. ❎
Nice to see you redoing this list :)
When I played Madeira and also Lisboa within the same week, I had to conclude that "older" games are rated a lot heavier than in the more recent years. I feel like both games would be at like 3.5 now. For example Dani Garcia's Barcelona sits at 3.35 and I feel like it is heavier than either of those. But the 1.0 rule books of Maderia and also Lisboa are pretty, uhm, let's say difficult to read and that might contribute to the perceived weight.
I didn't play enough heavier games the last few years, so I can't really put a top 10 list together, so I will just mention some that I enjoy ordered by times played using the 3.8 rule, even thought it feels wrong with quite a few games (e.g. how is Darwin's Journey a 3.9 whilst Tiletum is 3.4 and Beyond the Sun a 3.1?!)
Maracaibo
Tekhenu
Barrage
GWT: NZ
Sabika
Era of Tribes
Evacuation
Imperial Steam
Thanks for the video! :)
Great list! Now I have a few more titles to look at:)
My top-1 heavy game now is High Frontier 4 all - it's definitely worth checking out!
Glad you liked it 🤩
You’re so correct how the weight or heaviness of a game is relative to the players’ experience.
I remember the first couple times playing GWT, 2nd Ed thinking this was WAY over my head. Now it pretty much bores me.
I picked up Lignum base on the recommendation on your previous heavy games recommendations. My wife and I both love it.
It always makes me happy to hear this! 🥳
Great lists (I’d have 4 in common with Johannes and 5 with Sunniva). Haven’t played Lignum or Madeira yet but would like to try both. Really expected Johannes to mention Feudum, but there are a lot of brilliant heavy games.
Feudum is a hard one! I really like it, but the teach make it so hard to want to play it 😅
Johannes: "We cover more heavy games than any other channel."
Heavy Cardboard: "Hold my Beer!" 🤣
Hahahaha! If I said more than all, I meant more than most 😅
Johannes said "(...)than many other channels" :P
I would argue that Brass is a heavy game but many of us are so familiar with it and the theme is very well integtated. I feel the depth of decision making / planning is what makes it heavy to me.
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense!
Great call on Madeira, although I like it's sister Nippon a little more.
I also think I like Nippon a bit more, but it’s also a lot lighter, so it wouldn’t fit here for me :)
For me, heavy game is any game that has 50+ pages rulebook, takes ages to setup and clean up and it takes better half of the day to play it thru. That being said.
I'm not really fan of heavy games. Most of them feel like they are complicated just for the sake of being complicated. There's ton of "fast to learn" and/or "fast to setup" games out there that can offer a lot of fun and challenge. And since wife and I got kids I appreciate those kind of games even more.
IMHO, the best games are long and involved, that is, hard to teach and hard to get to the table. My favorite is "Die Macher." I got it to the table once, with six players, and it was an all-day affair. Everyone said they finished with a headache, but nobody had any other complaints. It's a huge commitment, though.
Most of the games you mentioned are high on my list. You got me looking for a copy of Cooper Island and maybe Voidfall.
I love Die Macher! Such an amazing game!
Great list ! As a Lacerda fan, I also love to play On Mars, Inventions and The Gallerist. Other heavy games are Nucleum and Trismegistus.
So many good games! 🥳
Inventions is probably the heaviest Lacerda.
Ohhh. I like this list. Sometimes they seem overwhelming, but when you settle in, they hit! Brass is on my shelf of shame right now but it's coming off soon!
Ooooh! Hope you’ll love Brass! Thanks for watching!
Brass is much lighter than other games on this list or BGG rating suggesting. But I would recommend printing an excellent, one page summary you can find from BGG file section.
@ hmmmm. Thats great advice. I’ll check that out. Didn’t know about it!!!
There's some amazing gaming in those lists!
I agree 100% 😂
My quick and dirty definition of a heavy game is either a game that has very significant rules overhead, or an extremely difficult set of mechanics in order to accomplish goals or score points.
Love it!
On the other end of it, though... it doesn't make any sense to call Chess or Go 'light' games. Point being that 'Heavy' can/should refer to more than just rules overhead or multiplicity of mechanisms.
@@coltonbeatty6117 thats a false dichotomy. No one is saying chess or go are light games.
@@Farbulous007 Your definition called for "very significant rules overhead or difficult set of mechanics". Chess and Go have neither.
@@coltonbeatty6117ummm... Ok? I guess that means I'm not saying that those are heavy games. You are allowed to think of it differently.
No more Feudum?? Thought that was your #1!! My top 5 are:
Through the Ages
Lisboa
Gaia Project
Feast for Odin
Anachrony
"Cause it's Ticket to Ride..". LOL
Haha 😂
Both Lignum and Imperial Steam by same designer are so good games
Arkwright is amazing, the only downside I feel it really shines at 4. Great video :)
Really want to play it more! 😁
Interesting to see that a lot of your choices are older titles
Good list! For me, a heavy game is if I start to get headaches because the decisions are so difficult to make 😀 Some favourites: Antiquity, Indonesia, Kanban EV, Evacuation, John Company 2nd Edition, Horseless Carriage … by the way: Small City Deluxe Edition unfortunately had quite some production issues, worst cutting-offset I've seen in years. The graphics were like 2-3mm off centre on some tiles.
Sad to hear about Small City Deluxe. I haven’t even opened our copy 😭
@@BoardGamingRamblings Perhaps you are lucking and they are okay. Either way, time to open that box! 😀
My favorite heavy game is probably "World in Flames"
Voidfall is definitely my favorite heavy euro game.
I am surprisedly Kanban wasn’t that” heavy “ after serval plays and teach with rookie.
A lot of games feels less heavy the more you play them, and the more games you play in general!
Love the list. I do not really play Heavy games. I max out medium. The Heaviest I have tried would be Gentes.
Happy that you enjoyed it even though heavy isn’t your jam! :)
Interesting and surprising list - that is good as I have discovered some unplayed chonky titles.
Glad you enjoyed it 🤩
"Everything you do is horrible." Immediately adds it to my "want to play" list.
It’s the best feeling 🥲
Thanks for sharing.
I may not like heavy games given that I only have one of the many on your two lists.
Hehe 😂 Luckily, there is fantastic games in all weights!
I would put Lisboa, Vinhos, Madeira, Nucleum, Tawantinsuyu and Carnegie on my list of top heavy games.
Great choices! Thank you for sharing!
@@BoardGamingRamblings No problem. I have got Feudum and Europa Universalis on the way. I am pretty sure they are gonna fit as well. 😅
4. Twilight Imperium
3. War of the Ring
2. High Frontier
1. Europa Universalis (abs. monster)
Great list! Haven’t played any of them 😅
@@BoardGamingRamblings means you have a lot of fun ahead! I very much recommend them all. also, my deepest sympathies to one who will read the rules of #1 & 2 ;)
my top heavy games: The good old Trickerion and for sure the upcoming stress botics
Love Trickerion! Would love to try Stress Botics!
Gaia Project should be so much higher lol =P
Such a great game!
Guessing - More than 1 Lacerda game on each of your lists?
Hmm 🤔
My idea of a heavy game is having as much if not more anxiety about what your opponents are doing as you do your own turn. I love it!!!
I love that! Thanks for sharing 🥳
I'm going to write all these down and keep the list so I know what games I never want to play! I've pretty much determined over the years that any game with a difficulty rating of over 3.5 is an absolute hard no for me. Between 3 and 3.5 I'll play if I like the theme or maybe the mechanics, but over 3.5 is more than my poor brain can handle!
Good to be of help that way as well 😅 Glad you have found out what games you like! 🤩
I think I just learned my first Norwegian word "engtasannt" ?
Not too far off! Great job starting your journey to fluent Norwegian 😁
Hi guys! I did not see Horseless Carriage.
The mention of Madeira stings as I unfortunately backed the reprint years (2019) ago. So far the only board game that never deliverd, and sadly never will. :(
Yeah, it’s super sad! 😭
We need to play games together. One day!
Yes! For sure 🤩
Have you tried 'Indonesia' from splotter spellen games? really want to know what u guys think bout that. Love from Indonesia ❤
Have not tried it, but would love to!
So... Weather Machine? ... You say the interaction was increased. Do you mean player interaction? (Because, his games can suffer from lack thereof). Or do you mean the intricacy of mechanisms?
For me the heavy games are
Trismegistus
Carnegie
Great choices!
How do you prefer playing Evacuation? Race or points? Advanced or base actions? 🔥
I love it in every variant! I think I liked points with advanced cards the most!
My favorite heavy game is rhinoceros.
It’s heavy for sure 😅
I don't remember any Splotter games on the list. Not a fan?
I really like a few, but haven’t played them enough. Horseless Carriage is the only one we own, and I really like it!
The list of top heavy games, without at least:
1. Robinson Crusoe
2. Frostpunk
3. Gaia Project
4. Cloudspire?
Sorry, no. You should definitely play Gaia, before comparing it to Age of Innovation. And try Stellar Horizons and Hoplomachus. There's more to gaming than Lacerda.
We don’t love a lot of coops, and we don’t play solo, so there goes three of them for us, hehe :)
I have played Gaia Project 8 times, and love it to bits, but it didn’t fit on this list for me! :)
Glad we can all have our own favorites 🥳
@@BoardGamingRamblings , you are entitled to like your games. That's fine. Title of the video should be then "Top 10 heavy games we like/prefer", not just "Top 10 heavy games". I was under the impression you were making a commercial for Lacerda by overlooking some great game designs. There are people watching your clips who are actually going to try some of these games out. And I think it's a shame not to mention these really iconic designs - no matter whether someone likes them personally or not.
I wish I would love Lisboa more. But the shipping and resource value track both feel so underdeveloped for my taste. I will never understand why the resource value ever only goes down. I will also never understand why the ship aspect feels so tacked on. I would play Kanban EV over Lisboa any time of the day because every aspect feels like it needs to be exactly where it is
I will always love it, but luckily there are enough awesome games for everyone 😁
I hope you have tried 18xx at least, because I’d take issue with people that claim to be heavy gamers but haven’t even played anything from that subset of games.
We have played a few! I (Johannes) like most I have played, but they usually end up the the «too much work» category for Sunniva :)
You love all your children (boardgames)the same except for ones you love more. 😉
Haha, true 😂
Twilight Imperium not on your top ten? Unreal
Never played, and will probably never play! Part of me want to play it once to have experienced it, but I know myself enough to know I will probably not enjoy myself a lot. 😅
I think Lignum is a very ugly but phenomenal game. But i don‘t think it is that hard of a game. It is very straight forward.
Nice list. But Gaia Project > Age of Innovation. ;)
I haven't tried AoI, but GP is my favorite game of all time.
Yeah, Gaia Project is just so good. The expansion is excellent too.
I personally like Age of Innovation more! My girlfriend and I have both, and she likes Gaia Project more so we both play them equally as often anyway :D
@@seanschelin243
Can I ask you a question? If my wife didn't love Gaia Project, is there a chance she'll like Age of Innovation? Like, is it sufficiently distinct that I should even try it?
@ Well it depends what she didn’t like about Gaia Project :) What didn't she like about GP?
My favourite heavy games are:
Lisboa
The Gallerist
Brass: Birmingham
Golem
Barrage
I haven’t played many of the games you have in your lists
Great list! Thanks for sharing! 🤩
Has Pfister pfallen out of pfavor? Shocked there was no room for Boonlake, Maracaibo, or Great Western Trail: New Zealand. Shocked, I tell ya, just shocked!
Love Pfister, but I don’t feel like any of his games are that heavy!
The Lacerdas are garbage
I’m happy we can all have different opinions :) What are some of your favorite heavy games?