They Did WHAT!? Netflix Alexander the Great Episode 1: Historical Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
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Check out my review of the trailer
• Netflix is a JOKE! Ale...
Check out my friend's video on Polymathy run by Luke Ranieri!
• Alexander on Netflix: ...
Intro
1 - The Boy King
2 - The Greatest Military Mind
3 - The Greek
4 - Wrong Jewelry
5 - King Philip II
6 - Attalus' Treason
7- Was Alexander the Great Gay?
8 - Cavalry playing Polo?
9 - The Wedding with the warlord
10 - Helmets
11 - The armour of an Anchilosaurus
12 - Son of Zeus
13 - The Duel
Hello nobleones welcome back to my channel this is the Metatron speaking and as you know I've already reacted to the trailer of the Netflix production Alexander the making of a god, and today we are having a deep historical analysis of the first episode which I of course have watched.
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not sure where to place this one politically since it can piss off both sides
• Did Rome Have a Transg...
I'll add more as I remember them.
As we always do we'll talk about the man himself, and the statements made surrounding him by the talking heads, the historicity of the period armour, jewelry, weapons, language, our usual empirical scrutiny entirely based on the sources which I will provide. We do this as a way to learn while having fun.
For the rest of you, namely those of you whom regardles of your own personal political preferences, left right or centre, just want to know what the evidence says without the political pandering, section 7 is for you and it will contain the most historically coherent and unbiased take on Alexander the great's sexuality on this platform. Let's go.
Point 1 The Boy King
I'd like to start with the fact that I already have a problem with the title of the pilot episode. ALEXANDER THE BOY KING. This title represents how king Darius refers to Alexander, twice on the show.
A 20 of age you were a fully grown man everywhere in that period… extremely improbable therefore that Darius would refer to Alessandro as a “boy king” that's a modernism right there.
Point 2 - The Greatest Military Mind
I don't feel like I can say that professor Llewellyn-Jones' consideration is demonstrably incorrect, however defining Alexander as “the greatest military mind of all time” is specious.
We know he perfected king Philip's military machiche, he was a fascinating man and incredible commander, he surely exploited the true battle potential of cavalry in conjuction with the phalanx, utilizes the“hammer and anvil” tactical structure beautifully.
So the great ok but the greatest? That would mean that not only you are comparing him to a Annibale, uno Scipione, un Cesare, un Gaio Mario, un Quinto Sertorio, consul Flavius Stilicho , and that's just int he Classical period, but to every military mind in all of human history. That sounds like a sensatiolaist claim, in other words a tv statement. Take it for what it is.
Defibniterly not an idiot, JT, and white supremacy is not the topic of this discussion Sara. One of the characteristics of Alexander's success was his charisma, unscrupulousness and contempt for danger. If there is one thing that the sources agree on is this.
Which is why I find it curious that Joe Rogan doens't believe that Alexander fought in the front lines, that was single handedly one of the main defining factors which set Alexander aside, he was a warrior king.
He lead cavalry charges in person, risked and won, his enemies died when they confronted him in combat, which is also one of the reasons why he was so inpiring to his men. I'll give you that that doesn't happen that often in the Classical period, usually commanders stay in the back. But it's not unheard of, we know it happened at least once to both Hannibal and Caesar. It was not the norm, but Alexander breaks the norm. We must make our judgments not based on what sounds reasonable to us, but based on the historical apparatus we have, to govern the opinions we form about our interpretation of the documented facts. I get that you woudln't do it, neither woudl I but we are not Alexander the Great.
#metatron #alexanderthegreat #netflix
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I didn't even know they remade Alexander the Great as a series! That's how much I don't even watch movies or documentaries coming from America or whoever follows their political agenda! Historical documentaries and movies are as accurate as the History Channel talking about ancient aliens nowadays!
Alexander WASN'T great.
He might have conquered a great amount of land, but he didn't leave a lasting empire, it fell apart immediately.
Greatness would have left something that endures more than the mythologised history of Alexander which we were left with.
Overstating the case is common for these sorts of "documentaries" -- there's a word for this called hyperbole.
Metatron you look like a very grumpy klingon in the thumbnail, i love it lol
Epaminondas of Thebes was a frontline general. It is also what ended his career so early.
Watching Netflix to learn history is like watching TikToks to learn physics.
😂😂😂😂😂😂 💯 I've got nothing. I can't top that comment. This was a priceless post!!!😂😂😂
“History” TikToks are wild too 😬
IDK. At least with TikTok you might be able to learn basic physics like gravity or inertia from people falling or running into things! 🙂
On more than one occasion I've heard adults in their 30s, 40s, 50s, say that they learned something from TikTok. In every case, they were wrong.
Tik toc 😅
Honestly I've never been mad at you cause I believe you truly tell the truth without bias, you look at the evidence and report what you find, excellent channel
They did “find” Alexander’s tomb. On a two-part episode from ‘Expedition Unknown’ Hunt for Alexander the Great.
About mentioning Arrianos as the main source of "proving source" mentioning of the sexually desired word "ερωμένος" of Alexandros is really naive. Arrian's work of Anabasis is the best source about Alexandros no doubt but it is a millitary history. Arrian was a commander himself in his biography and thus he was really accurate and understandably more prone to be accurate and intrigued himself for millitary actions and history all together.
With that being said, he is not a good source for Alexandros's biography. Due to his tendency of apologia and hagiographia. Also most notably several passages of Arrian can be shown (by comparison with other ancient sources) to be downright misleading.
In short:
Arrian is not an ideal source to point at and then claim that Alexandros is somewhat homosexual or something.
Arrian lived in AD so, he is barely even considered a primary source to begin with.
And as far as Plutarch goes about the work "Life of Alexandros" and the whole Bagoas incident, you need to understand that Plutarch used a phrase "It is said" before going into that little part about Bagoas and Alexandros supposedly kissing, implying that this was nothing but just a rumour. Most likely from Persians who wanted to win Alexandros's favour as he was indeed proven by every source to assimilate his Hellenic and Persian cultures.
Thats a big foul Metatron...i used to view you as a good example. Your creditibily has taken damage in my perspective. I might be selectively biased myself but i can not take foreign people like you seriously to talk about my own history in such a manner when you can not even understand and translate ancient texts properly and then push agendas/ideas of your own.
For example you tend to misinterpret "σύντροφος"
(Companion/Comrade)
for "Partner" as in "Lover" every single time. Which indeed in modern Hellenic it can have this connotation but you can not say the same for the Ancient Hellenes and their texts.
The word is derived by the noun "Συντροφιά" which literally means "Company". (To live with someone)
So take it with a grain of salt if you will but if i really wanted something to say after all these, its just a somewhat polite fuck you.
Metatron you did the science of history and logic wrong.
No he’s not. You’re fucking coping
Seemed pretty woke to me. They leaned hard into the gay angle.
My BF was like let's give this a watch. First we are caught off guard with them pretending it's a documentary.. then boys start acting....then made sure we all needed to see him get intimate with nameless 'friend' of his and wish we could remove shows we NEVER plan to watch and make room for decent content. We've resorted to animal shows.
Tokyo Vice on HBO I highly recommend 👌 👍
I found an ancient Macedonian poem on the archway to a burial chamber;
I Luv me Sari
Luv me Ptol
Luv me Macca
Simple as.
As someone with a history degree, I appreciate your approach to this!✊🏽
the shortening of the names is killing me in the show, haven't finished it yet, but waiting for him to come face to face with Darius, and be like "Oi, Darr, my dad Phil was killed"
daz seems more proper for darius imo
i ggiggled at fucking PTOL.... like dude, PTOLEMY isn't even that long like come on
D-man,
P-TOL, Tole- ピ
Big Al
That “Phil” killed me with Prince of Bel Air vibes.
In West Macedonia, born and raised
On the playground was where I spent most of my days
Chillin' out, maxin', relaxin', all cool
And all shootin' some b-ball outside of the school
Nearchos : Neecoz
Antigonos : Tejay
Antipater : Padre
Cleitos the Black : CB
Eumenes : U-man
Crateros : Lil' C
I am Greek. Your research on this matter, Metatron, is so insightful and valuable.
Thank you Mediterranean brother.
Greece just legalized gay marriage. Congratulations to the many gay couples in Greece. You've waited long enough.
@@johnwalzer9187 never understood why anyone wants to interfere with other people’s relationships or how two gay people being married impacts their marriage in any way shape or form. Happy for those people
it's a slippery slope to paedophilia. @@johnwalzer9187
@@johnwalzer9187 The Greek public are against it mind.
The Church of Greece is eastern orthodox & no Eastern Orthodox nation has allowed gay marriage which could end in civil war.
Greece has had internal war for much less!
I might be godless but I can understand the role the church plays in any western nation & marriage is a sacred part of that which the alphabet people don't realise they are losing what little good will Christendom has for them.
My self I can't help but laugh at the alphabet people for they see that they are destroying the few friends & allies they have.
Can't wait for the Islamic lot to end their precarious neutrality as their scripture on non stright marriage or relations is very clear & the punishment to those that don't abide the Quran severe.
Being a stright but basically celibate due to my failed health while a godless Englishmen it is not my concern.
Still as an outside onlooker it amusing to watch this lunacy unfold.
Agreed! The correct nickname for Ptolemy is obviously Lemmy
Ptolemmy
Is Hephaestion's nickname Feisty?
Born to raise hell :))
Fax.
Ptolemy Kilmister the Third
As an aside, Alexander and Hephaestion identifying with Achilles and Patroclus has another basis. Alexander believed that, on his mother's side, he was a descendant of Achilles. On his father's side Herakles (Hercules) was believed to be his ancestor. This kinship myth was very important to Alexander. City-states and kingdoms of Ancient Greece would usually claim descent from various such figures believed to be historical.
Its obvious he liked him and had more than just a friendship. Which is fine, doesnt make him less of a man. The comparison is just a way to show their love similarity and ancestry as equal to the gods.
They might have been historical
@@TheChosen2030 Some may have been, indeed.
In point of fact, some great leaders would commission works of literature in order to legitimize their rule by claiming descent from great historical/mythical figures. The most well known case is the Aeneid by Virgil. Augustus Caesar actually commission Virgil to make it in order to legitimize his rule of Rome by claiming descent from Aeneas and Romulus.
@@IphigeniaAtAulis The Romans again borrowed this myhological figure' from the Greeks. Aeneas is mentioned in Homer's ''Iliad'', the son of the Trojan prince Anchises and the Greek goddess Aphrodite (Venus for the Romans). A minor figure in Greek mythology was turned into the first great hero of Rome.
I am a Conservative, but I have learned that we cannot use modern minds to talk about the ancient world. They had different societies and beliefs and putting modern spins to ancient beliefs always fails. We can't moralize the past with the present.
I appreciate your open mind towards historical research. Thanks for sharing and watching
As a Paleoliberatarian, I agree. Tbh, I didn't really care what Alexander was. I don't watch Netflix anymore. It was a right winger infact that told me Alexander was gay lol.
Completely agree. You can’t look through history with a modern perspective. Morals and values are always changing
Nothing new under the sun.
"We can't moralize the past with the present."
and if we discuss his relationships with consenting adults, there is no need to moralize anything anyway. those are all moral by default.
Based on the last time Netflix did a "documentary" on a historical Macedonian, I would have thought that the question on everybody's mind would have been "Was Alexander black?"
I don't care what they told you in school, Alexander the Great was Martian!
@@scottlidstone1902wrong he was Puerto Rican, my abuela's sister told me so at the last reunion!
Alexander was a black paraplegic lesbian
Or was he really a her
Don't care WHAT your fancy-schmancy schools and EVIDENCE says - my MOTHER told me Alexander the Great was actually named Schloimek and he was a tinsmith in a little Shtetl just outside Bialystok.
Alexanders' Opis Mutiny speech is amazing. Alexander absolutely led from the front. That speech is incredibly deep
Maybe not the greatest military mind, but he was the most successful general. Does one follow the other?
"there's not 1 inch of me unscarred at least from the front"
It's a fascinating insight into Alexander the politician, using his image and his persona to further his agenda. And I don't mean that as a slight whatsoever, I think the speech shows how canny he was, which I find so interesting for a figure so often just perceived as a warrior and little else.
@@josephpercente8377 I think that people obsess over things that are just trivial. I mean, there is absolutely no way to objectively define who had the greatest military mind. so why does it matter? he was a military genius and one of the most proeminent figures from ancient history. isn't that enough?
@@louthegiantcookie
I think Caesar's speech to the 4 rebelling Legions (including Legio XIIII and Legio X) was MUCH more canny and is a better example of true genius.
With a single word (calling them "citizens," as opposed to "My fellow soldiers."), he both quells the rebellion and causes all 4 legions to beg him to take them back into his service (which he absolutely needed, but they didn't know that he needed).
Caesar was a truly great general, as demonstrated by his ability to defeat enemies using exactly the same types of soldiers + equipment, etc, and to defeat larger armies of Roman Legions, too!! Alexander, by contrast, would have to have been able to defeat a larger army of sarissa-equipped phalanx infantry, supported by companion cavalry, which simply never happened. The regent of Macedon, left in charge of the place while Alexander was off in the east, used the new armies built by King Philip, to build his own empire. Several Greek nations took up arms against Macedon and all of them were soundly defeated by 'Forgotten General, The Great.' This shows that Alexander wasn't the deciding factor in the battles he fought, rather, the deciding factor was the army built by King Philip, that no one yet knew how to beat. I mean, if some unnamed regent (he wasn't really unnamed, I just forgot his name) was able to defeat the best of the Greeks, including Athenians and Spartans and he was able to do this with the dregs of what Alexander left behind...
I remember my grandmother telling me I don't care what they tell you in school, Alexander was more flamboyant than Elton John.
Oh god, The mental image of Alexander riding his rainbow chariot in a flamboyant rainbow feather boa in a gay pride parade in June. With rainbow feathers on top of the horse bridles for good measure. Probably with a bottle of wine in one hand.
Everyone knows the Mediterranean was super fruity at that time . Just look at the abudance of male sculpture of that time period vs female
@@rushdem1 Hmmm, that maybe true but most women in their prime would possibly have been pregnant and so not be so "photogenic"? Statugenic...?
@@ladybug591 most gods are... gods. Goddesses are few in between. Statues are mostly deities, and important historical people, which are mostly... y'know, people who're not pregnant.
@@rushdem1what abundance mate? Cause I'm Greek and there's no lack of female statues and sculptures. We even thought that women's figures would make the most beautiful addition on a structural piece (caryatids). Goddesses, muses, mythical or historical women, or simply unnamed mortal women adorn plenty and they are in no way few and far in between
Watching netflix documentaries is like watching fan fiction, can't be called a documentary.
they call this crap "docudrama". There are no words to explain how much I hate the term. Pick a damn side netflix!!!!
Cocaine cowboys was lit
“Liberals, conservatives… I’m gonna piss everyone off today” Alright! Let me get the popcorn.
That was my favorite line of the episeode.😂
For real. I'm sick and tired of both groups and their idiotic closed mindedness and assumptions.
@@bobsaggater3454absolutely with you on that!!!!
My modern brain being like "Oh he wasn't gay or straight, he just had watery semen. Got it."
It's just idiotic to think that a person can remove all bias. It's human nature to add bias. While bias can me minimized, it can't be eliminated by people. This dude is so high on his own farts he thinks he has transcended humanity, and can talk about a subject without bias.
The Spartans called the Athenians "Boy-Lovers. The Athenians called the Spartans "Boy-lovers". The Romans called the Greeks in general "Boy-lovers". Very common insult in ancient times. I don't believe those kind of allegations in history unless they are from contemporaries who were friends of the person in question.
Looks “lmao you mad gay you sussy Baka” is an older than most think
“I hate it so its not right” lmao cope
"Unless they're contemporaries" well that's also not reliable, because diffamation existed back then, especially between political rivals.
It's a common insult toward one's enemies to accuse them of boy love. Every accusation needs to be examined in context for motive. Is it actually a statement of fact, an observation of actual behavior, or are they attempting to diminish the person in the record. No matter the motive, it's clear there was not a social acceptance of the behavior & those who engaged in boy love were not held in high regard or respected. That's more interesting than the accusation itself.
I thought the insult was “womenfolk”, not “boy-lover”.
Oliver Stone's 'Alexander' looks like a masterpiece in comparison to this Netflix lunacy! Very informative analysis by Metatron, thank you!
Which tells us a LOT about how bad this one is! 😅😉
@@finolacat8355to be fair though it's the absolute exception to the rule. That movie is bad despite being incredibly historically accurate.
Whenever I think about perhaps giving it another chance I always end up remembering how much everyone shouts at each other.
The Battle of Gaugamela is such a good sequence. The rest of the movie doesn't hold up very well but the lead up and the battle itself was great.
'Alexander' is of course by no means a masterpiece, but the Final Cut is a GOOD movie (which is not enough concerning the director, the input, the money etc)...Of course - as mentioned ''the ''shouting'' is poor directing, Jolie - abysmal casting and performance, but objectively the movie has more pluses than minuses and I gladly re-watch it (The Final Cut) and Vangelis music as always is simply sublime and PERFECT!@@agonsfitness7308
@@agonsfitness7308well we don't have an audio of ancient Greeks talking. Could have as well shouted a lot.
4:43 THIS! Imagine being brought up by that type of parents. One was a military innovator while the other was whispering "You are the scion of God's" If Alexander didn't believe he was destined by the gods for success I highly doubt he would have been so bold.
It certainly explains his fearlessness. Hit by an arrow? Pfft. A mere splinter to a god.
Hard to say, for sure but it certainly played a role in his life's arc. Also, wasn't enough he believed he was the son of Zeus, but he actually had the brains and courage to carry his conquests so far. His tragic flaw was his love of drink... he drove himself too hard and died at 33.
Imagine what we all could achieve with such grandiose encouragement. If we all truly believed we were children of the gods, would we behave differently? Worms and cans, man…
@@kathleenhensley5951 Agreed. You can have all the tools and encouragement in world and not have the courage to do anything of importance. A big strength that Alexander leaned on was his companions. Like your friends in real life might make you brave enough to do something crazy or in Alexander's part historical.
This is how we know Alexander the Great was actually Irish. All Irish Mammies think their first born son is the son of God. (The sons all think their Mammy's a virgin, so it balances out.)
claims to be the son of Zeus, sleeps with everything Checks out.
Verily, a chip off the old block.
Truly his father's son.
He wasn't gay or bisexual though.
@madcyborg1822 sounded like he was, but it was his college phase.
Gay as a soldier but straight when around woman alone and no other gay activities happening.
Or let's just say for the sake of it all they had bisexual relations regularly .
"Does it offend them? (....) Good luck with the Ptolomaic dynasty!" This remark made my day!
My children are beginning college and they have both watched your channel fairly regularly. Thank you for being a catalyst to their curiosity.
Sounds like a significant improvement over Cleopatra at least
Well, at least they didn't try to claim "Alex" was black.
I'll take it
@@ThepupsnameisBrian yet 😅
Shitflix's Alesanduh: We wuz kangz N ghey shiiiet@@ThepupsnameisBrian
@@modanmardaanyehe always kissed his homies goodnight.
Regarding Section 7, as is usually the case with most things: the truth is a lot more nuanced than most people are willing to admit; or, at least requires more patience than people are often willing to give. One of the many reasons I like your channel, Metatron, is that you're willing to explore subtlety and nuance in the pursuit of truth. Thank you for your work!
It’s obvious Netflix should stop doing historical shows and movies.
They pretty much suck or are mediocre at it.
True they had some well done ones in the past, but now they don’t care about the actual accuracy and just add whatever they think works for audiences and say that it’s educational or accurate.
As opposed to anyone else making a drama based on historical events.
The key word is movie. Cinema art, not fact.
The Outlaw king, the road to victory docs, the best of enemies, Ottomans rise of an empire doc, and siege of Johannesburg were all done by Netflix
When you intentionally push agendas it's not art it's propaganda
@@timesthree5757
It's absolutely intentionally done
What's strange is that they use historians... but looks like they never listens to them so what's the purpose?
in this day and age i spend most of my time unlearning everything I've been taught
It’s pretty fun to be honest, learning that most of history taught is a lie, or a half truth without context. Unfortunately, it’s hard to discuss things with others because it goes against their reality
@@easyegg9760 very true hardest thing is having someone to talk to about it in real life
That's just life. 😅
Then you either live somewhere very bad, or you‘re delusional.
Most info we are taught isn’t wrong, it‘s simplified and summarized badly. Info on Alexander is widely available, and commonly known.
@@TreiberSeptim I wasn’t specifically talking about Alexander just in general relax bro
At this point i'm just glad that Alexander isn't played by Idriss Elba.
Im glad they didnt turn him into a strong black woman
Alexandra the great black girl boss
Strong black trans woman in a wheelchair, who competes and wins championships in female arm wrestling.@@TheSuperappelflap
but it's Idriss Elba...
Well, if they chose Idris Elba but also to be accurate in the rest of the historical facts, could have been even a funny but good choice. For example, I have been watching the Anne Boleyn miniseries on Netflix, where not only Anne is black, but also semi-lesbian with Jane Seymour. Netflix writers seem to know no shame at any level.
Everyone who knows anything knows that Alexander's one true love was Bucephalus...
Don't underestimate how much you can appreciate the loyalty of a horse. Probably considered that horse more valuable than half his generals.
Alexander couldn't be defeated in battle because he was already used to having his organs rearranged.
Male friendship is apparently a foreign concept to modern writers.
Oh wow they’re still on THAT lol?
You have close male friends...that makes you part of the rainbow crowd. According to the crazy left anyways.
It's either men are toxic or lovers can't be in-between 😝
Exactly, if you admire a male while being a male they automatically think you are gay... The warped minds of actual gay people, it's why they try and convert any straight guy they see.
Same with bromances.
Metatron: I'm going to piss everyone off today
Me *grabs popcorn*
Metatron pissing people off is premium content
*copies comment with good interaction
Coincidentally, when I drink coffee my piss smells like popcorn.
he literally smoking a cigar at gas station while spitting mad facts 😂
🍿🍿🍿🧋🍿🍿🍿
Even Oliver Stone got it right with Philip II's missing eye in his Alexander film.
Wasan't he also limping in the movie?
@@fran3ro Yeah you see his lame leg too.
Alexander hade the best advisor ever. Don’t remember his name but he was at that time the worlds leading historian on Alexander the Great and a professor at Oxford. He hade one demand, that he would be one of the companies at the battle of gaugamela, and you can see him riding close to Alexander.
Some historical facts are wrong from what we know today but at the time it was close to perfect, as close as you can make it in a movie.
@@gustavgyll3291 Yep, that was Robert Lane Fox.
Didn't he have a genuine expert in the period to add authenticity though, and even then I seem to remember reading (complaint from the expert) that he had to remove huge chunks because it upset various sub-sections of US society who couldn't deal with facts.
In the case of Caesar, I think we have 2 credible examples of him fighting alongside his men:
The Battle of the Sabis and the battle of Munda.
In the former, the evidence says that he threw down his (something) and picked up a shield, to fight alongside his men. In the latter, the sources quote him as saying "In other battles I fought for victory. At Munda, I fought for my life!" Since the battle of Munda happened AFTER the battle of the Sabis, I think it's fair to assume that "fighting for my life" meant picking up a shield- again- and fighting alongside his soldiers. Again.
As a young man, serving on the staff of a Roman governor in Asia Minor, Caesar won Rome's highest award for bravery, "crown of oak leaves(?) whilst scaling the wall of a fortress on Miletus(?) in the Aegean Sea.
Roman commanders rarely if ever actually fought in battle, they were there to command and Caesar was no exception. He was a brilliant commander, and a great inspirer of his men. He was caught in a very difficult situation with his army strung out along the Sabis River in Gaul and the Nervii closing in on the particular legion he was with. It was a desperate fight but Caesar was organising and encouraging his men until other legions came to their aid, not actually fighting. The Battle of Munda in Spain (45BC) was Caesar's last battle against the remnants of the Pompeiians led by Pompey's two sons. Caesar's legions were by this time heartily sick of the civil war. They had just marched 12 miles to confront the Pompeiians on a hill but when Caesar ordered them to charge they balked. Caesar was forced to put himself in great personal danger to get his troops to charge up the hill. They then charged but Caesar himself did no actual fighting. He was "fighting for his life" because his men were heartily sick of fighting.
The Battle of Alesia against Vercingetorix - the front were literally everywhere.
Oh come on, Meta! First Shad, now you. I have to go to sleep today and it's almost midnight in Europe.
Come on it's only 23:40 😉
Same it's almost 2 AM here...
It's after midnight, what are you on about?! It's almost like you posted this comment an hour ago
@@m0-m0597 First off it's only 7pm. It's like you guys don't live in my exact geographic location in this specific moment in time.
Where I live it's Monday
One thing to note is that the sources themselves aren't free of grudges, bias, preference, slander or what have you.
It's evident in the wording some use, like Atheneus and Rufus, or Diogenes.
It's extremely evident in Roman politics, and we should also mention that all sources listed are from the Roman times, not in Alexander's life, so make of that what you will. I doubt they'd be free of interpretational preference, like the case of Achilles and Patroclus.
This isn't to support one case or the other but for some reason the moment people see a source it's like they forget, that we didn't develop personal bias yesterday.
People have been twisting past figures to support their current politics or beliefs since antiquity.
In addition, the majority of sources can only be generously called secondary and were written by people who lived well passed the lifetime of Alexander and any contemporaries. For example, some of the existing documents from that time are stone tablets with letters from Alexander to the Greek Cities.
Just as an aside, Metatron mentioned frequently Plutarch who was 400 years after Alexander lived. I think we have to accept that we actually can't know because all sources are flawed and we really only know the man existed and the general scope of his successes.
always think this. there were definitely bs merchants back then same as today
Exactly, very important to keep that in mind especially with the wording in some of the sources
Brilliantly said. Someone wrote something about him, oh it must be true then!! xD
Richard the Lion Heart did fight at the tip of the spear
He waded in and piled up bodies all around him
“Hand me my Danish axe”
Alexander, Richard the Lion Heart, and Gustav II Adolf of Sweden, all kings who liked to lead from the front
@@Isildun9 Charles XII of Sweden as well.
Robert the Bruce killed an English knight, snapping his axe handle while caving in the knight's skull. He then complained to his men that the horrible Englishman broke his axe with his face.
@@AEB1066 A truly Scottish move, good in the Bruce.
@@Isildun9Julius Ceasar as well often fought in the front lines
lol 'Alexander the Great Gay' sounds like a roast his men would come up for him.
Alexander the Fabulous 💅🏻
Lol
Metatron needs to start all his videos with ten seconds of angry Jesus stare.
Pray we don't earn the Jesus Glare.
He does it so well, downright scary, even to someone my age, and I'm old enough to be his grandmama.
It does make a point. You see it and immediately think “oh crap, what did Netflix do now?”
well Metatron would choose a historical figure and not a character from mythology i would guess.. (:yes flavius josephus did mention him one time but not with specifics).i was raised catholic dont be triggered church crowd. it is my opinion and my right
@@thomashauer6804 your opinion is boring, and you missed the joke.
I'm going to use this to one-up my gamer friends. "Arrow in the knee? I took a spear in the knee! Check this out!"
I'm a 57 year old woman, and I laughed so hard about that. I even called my son and had him watch that part so we could laugh together. That exact phrase was going through my head when he said he had a spear wound to his knee. I may have the humor of a 12 year old boy. But, in my own defense, I'm a single mom of 2 boys.
My son first recommended this channel, and it's one of my favorites. ❤
The term arrow to the knee refers to marriage
Hahahaha, beat me to it.
"I will piss of everyone on the political spectrum." Sounds like music in my ears.
I mean I’m not pissed, have reservations when it comes to the Roman writings though since it happened way after his life.
@@ImperialSenpai That's like saying writing a report on hitlers life now as gen z member is irrevant to future generations because we didn't live to see it.
@@Moncrom I don’t know where the Roman ones got their original sources or if they just made it up. Which is why I said I have reservations about it. Also I would not trust %99.9 of gen Z or millennials on knowing anything about WWII as a whole so that doesn’t help and a lot of things about it. Including Hitler’s life get lied about for ideological reasons leaving a lot of people ignorant about it.
@@Moncrom It's LESS relevant than a source directly from his time. Mostly because you're reiterating what those sources said through the lens of your generation. Much like Chinese whispers, do that often enough and you don't necessarily have an accurate picture anymore. One century isn't a big deal, but several can make sources questionable. Since they're sources based on sources based on sources...
As a conservative whose instincts are to distrust modern reinterpretations of historical figures, I'm not pissed off. I get what our host was getting at about angering both sides, but I doubt my reaction is hardly unique among cons.
And yes, moncrom, documents from several hundred of years after an event are not weighted the same as contemporary sources. Even moreso when you include different languages and cultures. Why is that difficult for you to understand?
In ancient Greek "eromenos" is the thing or person which is been loved, "erastis" is the lover of the person or thing. For example, "I am erastis of the good art". Now in modern Greek, most often "eromenos" and "erastis" have sexual meaning, or sometimes if said at an intelectual level they have their archaic meaning depending on the context.
It was common practice during the Greek Classic Age for Greek commanders to fight in the front line. Alexander was just following Greek practices. Even his father, Phillip II, lost an eye and was wounded in the leg during battles. That doesn't happen in the rear.
it was also common practice to be LGBT+ so then, why is everyone so upset about it ? does it really matter if Alexander was LGBT or not ?
@@itsMe_TheHerpes Because most men think sex between two men is disgusting, and so did most Greeks. It was not as wide spread as homosexuals want us to believe.
@@itsMe_TheHerpes No, it wasn't that common.
@@itsMe_TheHerpes Dude, you just watched a video about the fact that applying our ideas about LGBTQ on classical Greeks is a nonsense, so WTF? BTW Metatron also has a video where debunks the myth that homosexuality (as we understand it today) was common and widely accepted in ancient Greece.
IMHO no one normal is really upset about anyone being anything if there is historical evidence for it. People (me included) are upset about history being bent to suit whatever modern political worldview - making Alexander monogamic straight man would be just as insulting as making him purely gay, simply because neither corresponds with know historical sources.
@@itsMe_TheHerpes except it was extremely rare and the legitimacy of cases where it actually existed are questionable at best and completely fabricated at worst.
Metatron:
"Alexander considers lust a weakness, because he thinks himself a aon of Zeus." (paraphrasing)
Me:
"Are talking about the same Zeus? The guy who's sleeping around is responsible for around half of the Greek mythology?"
Maybe, as a son of Zeus, he sees his father as a bad example.
Wouldn't it be fair to consider that Zeus' weakest aspect though?
To be fair, the Greeks themselves didn't view their gods as infallible/perfect. So it's not necessarily incompatible with their world view to view some of the gods' actions as weaknesses/flaws to avoid.
Though he did that across centuries.
Zeus's lust was considered by The Greeks to be his humane fallibility. Unlike the memes you're regurgitating here. It wasn't a defining trait of his. It was a one of the representations of the aspects of him that he passed down to us when making us. Zeus was The Greek All Father/Creator who molded mankind in his image, without him having that "weakness of lust" it wouldn't make sense for us, his creations to have that as well. Use your rationality for a minute rather than just spouting jokes you saw on Reddit as historical Canon.
😂😂😂 the beginning, hilarious. Just the your face lol
He was not amused! 😊
this 😂
That's how you know it's gonna be a good video
So true, I'm glad we have him. He is a treasure!
That was the kind of face I imagine Mussolini had when he began receiving the reports of his invasion of Greece in 1940.
Also yes the whole reason he died was due to injuries he got on the frontline catching up to him, so he definitely fought on the frontlines
Netflix's Alexander makes Oliver Stone's Alexander look amazing.
Oliver Stone's Alexander is unironically the best when it comes to showing Alexander's battles (until it gets to India and makes a mess of things). But is also gave us 'Babylon, Persia', which is repeated here. Way to obfuscate Babylon's status as a conquered rival imperial capital that was in frequent revolt against Persia.
Rosario in her prime.
@@badlaamaurukehu true but she's aging gracefully though.
She had a nice figure🤤
That movie was inspired by the books by valeri massimo manfredi
I enjoy your insistence that modern interpretations of relationships be dropped and instead relationships be understood in the context of the time. It not only helps with historical accuracy but also helps sociologically for us to understand how different cultures understood the relationship of the sexes and sexual relationships and how those understandings have changed over time. To interpret such relationships from a modern perspective loses valuable sociological data. Love those 72 wings.
ruclips.net/video/BNAT4ybsz_E/видео.htmlsi=zCFISDmEAl6Fhdm2
How is having sex with a man not gay in any time period?
Lets face it, sex with a man is twice as manly as sex with a woman. This is a fact.
@@Mr.Witness What is modern is how you label and understand same sex desires and relations. Having sex with a man would not have you labelled as 'gay' , nor would having sex with a woman have you labeled as 'straight'. Sexuality was something you did, more of an action. They were also not so concerned and worried about falling into one or other box. Things changed with Abrahamic religions and their obsession with sins of the flesh and then in the modern era with science and the pathologization and characterisation of different characteristics into identity features.
@@Mr.Witness "Gay" and "homosexual" are not the same thing. A man can engage in homosexual activity, as well as heterosexual activity...what does that "make" him? If his attractions are 80% towards women, but 20% towards men...what then?
The big issue is not that Alexander was interested in both man and woman, it's more that Netlix pushing only in one direction. They didn't explain or tried to explain how Alexander was interested in beauty, but only showed one side of it while using modern approach to it instead of how it was seen back then.
I don’t believe he believe he preferred both. It doesn’t seem to match much of what was accepted at the time. I know they used to accuse leaders they didn’t like of being into men very often, could such a trend have muddied historical data?
@@zzodysseuszzThis is cope
Alexander was bisexual
Oliver Stone kinda made this mistake too, albeit to a lesser extent. Issue with movie is it seems like he doesn't truly care for Roxanna at all and no mention is made of his... harem tendencies
Ancient times and cultures cannot be compared to the modern world.
And of COURSE Netflix has to FIRST tell us - rightly - that Zoroastrianism gave an equal or near-equal role to women, and queens wielded a lot of power. A few moments later, they have the Persian king pooh-poohing someone as being "a mere woman" LOL THANK YOU METATRON for another wonderful, organised, erudite video!!!
Queens wielded a lot of power throughout history. The infamous "modern audience" Intersectionalists often try to portray them akin to slaves in order to justify their own hateful behavior. The exaggeration can get pretty thick.
@@NefariousKoel often queens had no power its Just a historical fact
@@NefariousKoelsome Queens wielded power. Others got their heads chopped off because their king was horny for a younger model.
Context is everything. You generalise as much as the "modern audiences" you demonise. But your statement is no better.
@@giorgijioshvili9713 queens and women wielded power quite often, but through men. Look at Katherine of Aragorn, she made military decisions on behalf of her husband when he was away. Margaret Beaufort certainly used every wit she had to get her son onto the English throne. Anne Boleyn influenced Henry so much he broke from the Catholic Church. She could have been content with being a mistress, but she wanted to be queen and wanted to reform the religion. You’d be surprised by how much influence women could have.
It’s just the man usually had the last say whether he was right or wrong.
It's important to specify the kind of power royal women wielded *on average* - which was usually 'soft power'; they served as patrons of the arts, they were involved in charity, the education of their children/ the children of others - people begged for their intercession, in legal matters- & they might apply to the king on behalf of others, as it wouldn't be 'proper' for grown men to _beg_ for mercy on their own behalf- but it was entirely fitting for women & children, & even aged parents to do so- & a king could claim to be 'moved to mercy' by such gestures.
There are instances of women wielding both hard *&* soft power- but that was often almost always a Queen Regnant- as in, women ruling *in their own right* - most queens were mere consorts, & occasionally regents for under-age heirs. They were often the exception, not the rule...
About Alexander;s wounds Plutarch lists a great number of them. He had A LOT. Also, King Philipp was assassinated on the road tio the thater of Aigai not inside a room as they showed.
Technically, he died a he was walking out to make his appearance. I know what you meant, but the term “On the road” makes it sound like he was traveling to an uninformed reader.
@@edfilandrianos You are right. But in the show they killed him indoors, which is BS.
Wait, Netflix got the Helmets right? Maybe, they are going to get the Leather Bracers right next time. ;) XD
According to research, sexual dysfunctions of any kind tend to be quite common among alcoholics. Good one Aristotle
Hi Metatron, I'm Greek myself.
Erastis and Eromenos according to Plato are NOT sexual. It is a relationship between a teacher and a student.
"eros" means a deep relationship of respect and love for knowledge.
There is a distinct separation between "Eros" which is intellectual and love which is sexual.
It's not as straightforward as it seems.
Can you provide a link? I don't know ancient Greek, but in modern Greek the εραστής/ερωμένος distinction Metatron claims definitely makes sense.
Eros does mean desire but it isn't strictly sexual desire. Hence the word Pederasty, it doesn't mean desire for kids, it means desire for teaching.
@@zhshsG7 Plato's Phaedrus describes this in detail.
Mind that you should read the book and be wary of translations.
Avoid reading interpretations of the book.
No, they did fuck young boys.
It was very sexual, Eva Cantarella wrote heaps about this and you just to look at greek ceramics to see that it was very much a sexual relation.
This does not mean they were f*gs like some people believe
I had a class with a teacher about the book Theogony, and at the beginning we have the birth of Eros, which is love as you described, a type of love that moves things, and then, you have the birth of Eros, another God, that is about carnal love, the Romans called this God Cupid. So we have both types of Eros, the problem is knowing which Eros people are talking about, for Netflix it will always be the second.
Another historical inaccuracy was when they showed the city of Babylon with the Ishtar Gate seemingly on the outer wall of the city when in fact it was a gateway into the sacred precincts of the city on the Processional Way near the center of the cityl
As a Greek i don't think Metatron really understands the respect and love that grows inside me about him!
Get a room.
@@theressomelovelyfilthdownh4329 Lmfao,not in that way!
@christhegreek3667 what did you think of this show? I havnt watched it nor have any interest in watching it so I don't know how it is.
@@kyle18934 The show has 6 episodes in total ,counting 40-45 minutes each, that's a lot of time wasted considering
you can find RUclips channels making more informative and detailed videos about Alexander The Great.
Something to note is that the music was TOP NOTCH! Maybe something that i liked in the series!
Gay
Netflix forgot the most important rule, the rule of cool. The Alexander movie from the 2000's understood this concept but for some reason Netflix is oblivious to this.
First argument in Alexander's propaganda was that the cause of the campaign was to punish the killers of his father and avenge the destruction of Athens.
He had a real emotional (and nearly, a spiritual) Tie to Achilles, also. I think he believed He was Achilles, reborn. ( If I remember correctly) He kept the Iliad under his pillow.
And yes, he also wanted to pay Persia back for its two invasion.
Just finished this series not one hour ago, and my very first thought was, "Can't wait until Metatron does a video on this."
Greek philologist here and I have to say that although the video is made to educate it ends up misinform the audience.
Let's start with the basic (which I've seen in another video of this channel as well):
1) Pederasty, the practice of Pederasty was pedagogical and not pedophilic. This notion comes from Dover whose ideas you seem to share. Those ideas are derived by the false translation of the words Εραστής and Ερώμενος (not Ερωμένος as it is usually confused as), you showed that the meaning of these words is "Lover" and "loved one" and while Wikipedia appears to be the source of information for many, the actual translation of the words in Greek is "Mentor" and "Mentee", the translations you provide are closer to modern Greek than ancient, it's like translating the word εγχειρίδιον from an ancient Greek text with a modern translation (in modern Greek it means a book while in ancient Greek it means knife). The words Εραστής and Ερώμενος in the ancient Greek lexicon are synonyms to the words Εισπνήλας and Αΐτας which also mean Mentor and Mentee. As we can see from Plutarch, Xebophon and many others (even Plato who is
more than not mistaken as an "open-minded" individual) if such a relationship turned sexual that was not only frowned upon, but the constitutions of many cities punished such behavior even with death (see the constitutions of Athens and the Lacedaemonians). Also it was never something that was encouraged or wanted by the student, who would feel repulse, hatred and anger towards their teacher. The act would bring shame not only to the Εραστής but also to the Ερώμενος, this whole concept of passive and active didn't exist until the Roman period, for the Greeks it was seen as Πάρα φύσιν (unnatural/against nature) whether you were active or passive. It is also worth mentioning that in common Greek or Koine the word Εραστής came to mean Admirer and the word Ερώμενος assumed a similar meaning to fan/or loyal subject.
With that being said, let's move on to point number two
2) Achilles and Patroclus, although my previous point already explains the relationship, I should just add that it was never a debate between whether or not the two heroes were sexual partners, the debate was whether Patroclus was the Mentor who taught Achilles (since Patroclus according to Homer was older) or like we see in the Symposium by Plato (a view of Aeschylus) if it was Achilles who was the older and mentored Patroclus (which is more often than not the way it is depicted today).
3) The Greeks did have a word for it, they had many words for it (none of which were good). The most commonly used was Κίναιδος (he who drags shame behind him), Ευρυπρωκτος (broad assed) , Γυνίς (effeminate) and many more. Any act that was seen as effeminate by the Greeks was considered Πάρα φύσιν and depending on the city state, it was punished (in Sparta for example as we can see by both Xenophon and Maximus of Tyre it was punishable with death or exile, while in Crete it was more acceptable and therefore not punished).
4) The sources claiming any romantic relationship between Alexander and another man are all Roman or byzantine, no Greek source makes such claims. Most famous of the sources are Arrian (writing the anabasis for his patron Hadrian) and Athenaeus (who was writing for his patrons, the Roman elite, and who's work is considered by academics the most unreliable of sources since most of his claims can't be found anywhere else. I mean he literally claims that Plutarch was at the symposium together with him and the Roman elite and agreed on everything Athenaeus said...that is after Plutarch's death, also his work literally condradict the Deipnosophists). The actual evidence of Alexander having any romantic relationship with other men are as many and reliable as the sources that claim Julius Caesar having affair with other men.
5) Translation, unfortunately English translations are less accurate than the Netflix documentaries, for example in "Life of Alexander" by Plutarch, we see a passage translated as "He embraced him and kissed him passionately" (talking about Alexander kissing Bagoas), but the Greek texts says nothing about passionate kissing or anything about passion at all, the passage translated as "kissed him passionately" is "ἄχρι οὗ περιβαλὼν κατεφίλησεν" which translates "until he hugged him and kissed him twice" καταφιλάω/ώ means to kiss someone on the cheek more than once/twice and we see that many times as a form of congratulating someone in Greek texts (we can even go further and talk about the meaning of a kiss in persian culture).
6)Alexander's rejection of the boys sent by Philoxenus, the point made there is clear and no it's not compared to women or anything else the passage starts by saying "Σωκράτης ἠνέσχετο συγκοιμηθέντος Ἀλκιβιάδου" just like Socrates ἠνέσχετο, which means to find something shameful or to be repulsed by something, to sleep with Alcibiades (or to sleep on the same bed)...and then goes on to explain why Alexander was against the idea of sleeping with men/youths, it doesn't compare anything to him sleeping with women. When it comes to the claims about Hephaestion, people should really read about what his role was in the Macedonian army and how that made him spend most of his time away from the rest of the members of the Heteroi and Alexander.
Also the guy referring to Alexander's body being covered in scars is a reference to Alexander's speech during the mutiny of Opis in which he says that his body is covered in scars made by all sorts of weapons(except from his back).
The video was made for a good cause, but it lacked basic philological knowledge.
Perfect!👍👏👏👏
Εξαιρετικός!Μου παραχωρείς το δικαίωμα να το αναπαράγω ως έχει και σ' άλλα κατάπτυστα, συκοφαντικά βίντεο - αντιδράσεις στο συγκεκριμένο ντοκιμαντέρ, που υποτίθεται ότι αντιτάσσονται στην προπαγάνδα της woke κουλτούρας αλλά αντιθέτως την εξυπηρετούν άριστα είτε από άγνοια είτε από σκοπιμότητα;
Thank you for the info.
thanks
Thorough debunking
About 14:30
_"... someone cries because his best friend died, he must be gay, they must have been in a relationship."_
That's ludicrous. What would such people say about a teacher mourning the death of one of his students?
That seems an odd example. Any teacher who actually mourns a student, (rather than just being sad about it), would be suspect in my eyes. I wouldn't want any teacher so attached to my kid that they go around crying about it as if they were family (or a friend). I have been a Sunday School teacher and then coordinator at my church for years, having the same kids to work with for years in a row, having lots of events and being part of the church family, too. If something happened to one of them, I would be sad about it, might even cry a little, but I wouldn't "mourn".
Not trying to be mean, maybe your interpretation of the word "mourn" is different from mine. Plus some of us are a bit touchy about the teachers or president who claim other people's children as "all of our children". I agree that mourning someone doesn't mean that you are romantically in love with them, fwiw, but I might use a better example than teacher and student.
@@nicolethompson8613wow, you might be heartless then. If a teacher doesn't mourn their student their heart is made of stone
@@ashyroy9454 be sad, yes. Mourning is a different thing. I am far from heartless. Mourning is defined as: "the expression of deep sorrow for someone who has died, typically involving following certain conventions such as wearing black clothes.".
@nicolethompson8613 I didn't have very good parents growing up and my teachers completely helped me survive my childhood by providing good examples and supporting me. I talked to my first grade teacher until she died. This is a sad view that you have.
@@Kp42083 its obvious that your teacher was gay dude pfff
Hey Metatron. Good video but I do have to push back on the gay section. Your quote from Arrian wasn't actually written by him, it was rather a quote he wrote down word for word from another author. At no other point does Arrian himself actually refer to them as eromenos/erastes himself, nor do Plutarch, Diodorus, Curtius or Justin, and they represent the majority of our contemporary references. Almost every time Hephaestion is referenced, he is called 'philos' meaning friend.
On the Diogenes quote about Hephaestion's thighs, this was meant to be an insult towards Alexander. He was a teacher of philosophy and basically was saying Alexander wouldn't ever amount to anything because he was caught up in a shameful relationship.
A few more things I could write, but I'll be putting out a video shortly on this topic.
Of course you'll be putting out a video shortly, half of your videos are about homosexuality.. seems like its a bit of an obsession for you.. The other half of your videos are you ranting about how many Jews are on Joe Rogan's show or how low IQ different racial groups are and basically just doing coded Nazi propaganda...At least Metatron is honest here, citing actual academic consensus even when that means saying something his right leaning audience might not necessarily want to hear. What you do is take the worst most bad faith and one-sided interpretations you can find and pander to an audience that shares your particular sensibilities that is just ready to believe whatever will confirm their bias.
And what about Bagoas? Did Plutarch too just make up the whole story about them kissing in public and the soldiers clapping just for fun, or - according to your perverse logic that says more about your own biases than anything else- that was meant defame and smear him? You're delusional, truly.
There's absolutely NO indication Diogenes meant to shame Alexander by saying that. You think homosexuality is bad, as you made clear in several of your videos so you project that on Diogenes because you can't fathom homosexuality being cited without homophobia as qualifier.
Hi and thanks for watching and commenting. I'll check your video out once you post it. It's always interesting to share different interpretations on ancient authors to see who can get closer to the truth. At the end of the day, it's what philosophers and thinkers did all the time in period. Have a good one.
Looking forward to your reponae leatherapron
@@metatronytIt’s out
Lmao you’re coping
In regards to Alexander’s Battle wounds and leading from the front lines , Alexander biographer Flavius Arrianus notes the multi battle injuries sustained by Alexander through his campaign, from long range weapons to close quarter weapons . Even Alexander himself in his speech described the wounds he sustained along side his troops
he did claim to never have suffered a wound from the back, but I guess that's probably meant to mean he's never fled from combat
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrian This guy? Meaning 400 years later?
@@AandKify Yes, this guy is calling Hephestion "eromenos". So he must be right.
"Who among you believes he’s worked harder for me than I have for him? Come on! If you’ve got scars, strip and show them to me. I’ll show you mine! There isn’t one part of my body, the front at least, that doesn’t bear a wound! Swords, arrows, stones, clubs. All for the sake of your lives, your glory, and your wealth."
-Alexander the Great addressing his troops following the Opis Mutiny, 324 BC
I strongly admire and follow your channel but also strongly I disagree with your interpretation of the sources on Alexander's sexuality. The most important accurate sources (in history science) are the primary ones and there are none mentioning anything about Alexander having sexual relationships with men. Eromenos in ancient greece is not referring to sexual relationship but spiritual bonding or brotherly love, which was what Alexander and Hephaestion were sharing. The sources that mention sexual relationships with men are all written more than 300 years (even 500 years) after Alexander died and were based on rumours, gossip and hearsay.
We have no other sources and the ones we have are mosty based on works written by Alexander's contemporaries.
And the love between erasthes and eromenos was everything vut brotherly... Just face the fact that homosexuality played a part in Ancient Greece's social life. Is that so diffucult?
@@aetosnepos7468 I know we dont have other sources. We do actually but they are through quotes or fragments. But none mention anything about Alexander being physically attracted to men. Please take the time and post the contemporary sources that you think the secondary ones were based on and where in the quoted text they mention Alexander having sex with a man. And yes, eromenos comes from the word eros, which in ancient Greece also meant spiritual bonding or brotherly love (check Plato), which was the case for relationships between men, contrary to it's meaning today which is making love aka having sex. Even Arrianus "Anabasis", which is considered by most historians to be the most complete and coherent, mentions nothing. On the contrary, other secondary sources like Claudius Aleanus makes wrong implications based on nothing, marking parallels between Alexander and Hephestion and Achilles with Patroclus. How could someone even know Achilles sexual preferences when there are ZERO sources about him besides the Heliad? That was pure gossip. English is not my native language so please forgive any errors.
It is said by Egyptologists that Alexander embraced the ancient Egyptian religion in a serious way. If that is true, I wouldn’t see how Alexander could be bisexual, considering that ancient Egyptian religion prohibited any form of sexual relations with the same sex.
As a "Far-Right transphobic bigot Extremist", I've literally never thought about his sexuality. And I couldn't care less if he played the skin flute on the whispering eye. But I do like me a Metatron video.
i dont get why its the whispering eye (still sounds funny but i dont get it)?
Farts.@@spiff1
Bagoas was by no mean a transgender. The eunucs were castrated men, against their will.
"veni vidi vici
alea iacta est
Pizza, Mama Mia, Grazie"
gaius julius mario caesar
quod erat demonstrandum
🤌🤌🤌
*Gai Jul Rio Ceasar
I cringed so hard to be honest
Yet, and Im not trying to say Alexander was homosexual or heterosexual, Arrian who uses the word _"EROMENOS"_ lived *five centuries after* Alexander's death; can this be considered a reliable _"source"?_ I mean, five centuries later someone could probably easily confuse brotherly love with homosexuality, accordingly to the cultural conditions of his own era. Just think how different the world was, even culturally speaking, 5 centuries before our own era.
We can only use the sources we have. These have been written centuries after Alexander's death, yes, but they rely on sources written by his contemporaries. The concept of erasthes and eromenos existed long before Alexander and it still did when Arrian, Plutarch & Co. wrote about him.
@papertoys yes we use the sources we have...
To both the above who (both) claimed _'we use the sources we have':_ *did I claimed otherwise?* I said, five centuries later the obsverver *might not be so objective* on things that have to do with the cultural status of a different era, muchmore for an era 500 years before his own era and without the means we have today to assist him, namely sociology, psychology, etc. Im saying that this is a common mistake *millions* of people fall in everyday _'oh, the Athenian Democracy gave no privileges to woman, so not a Democracy at all'_ *...and staff like that.*
It's a common mistake today even amongst scientists, why not in antiquity? Muchmore when It's not that have 10 different sources to confirm the claim; regardless the claim itself the surviving sources are *very few to confirm a theory.*
@@papertoyss You didn't answer the part about our sources directly relying on texts written by Alexander's contemporaries (and the cultural continuity between them was quite high). Good luck explaining that away.
It is considered to be most likely that Alexander was into men and women alike. You just don't want to acknowledge any historical records of forms of homosexuality.
@@aetosnepos7468 _"Good luck explaining that away."_ You kinda missed that I dont actually disagree with what you say, for I dont support any theory on Alexander's sexual orientation. I ve just set some thoughts and (correct me if Im wrong) I believe I wasnt rude setting them.
This video contains a lot of misinformation... Eg Metatron's interpretation of the term 'eromenos' is erroneous as it could have various meanings depending the context, while most of the sources he refers to were written hundreds of years after Alexander's death, so they obviously can not be taken for granted on any planet of this universe.
So... name some sources that you would prefer?
@@aetosnepos7468 All the main sources for Alexander in general were written many centuries after his death which occurred in the 4th century BC. Curtius Rufus wrote during the 1st century AD, while Arrian and Plutarch on the second century AD - FIVE whole centuries later! These stories do agree on some basic information about Alexander, but there are also many discrepancies. So, according to the experts not all that they contain is the factual truth. Yes, it is considered as a historical fact that he existed, or that he conquered the Persian empire, or that he utterly spread Greek civilization all the way to modern Pakistan, but when it comes to anecdotal moments about his personal life, those can not be considered as 100% historical facts, especially when not all the main sources agree upon them. Eg Curtius Rufus doesn't give even a tiny hint that could possibly be misinterpreted about Alexander having homosexual relations with Hefaistion and he precedes Arrian or Plutarch by one full century...
I hope you got the point...
@@highevan Good explanation. What is missing from it is that we often know the sources of these sources. The texts that mention Alexander's homosexual relations are the ones based on works written by Alexander's contemporaries. So it is generally considered to be most likely true.
God I love this channel. Bless you Metatron!
I Appreciate thanks 🙏🏻
Your refrence of Arrian, Discourses of Epictetus, is 450 years after Alexander, written by a Roman about a Greek. The Romans admired Greek culture but thought them morally questionable.
Yeah most of his sources in the video aren’t contemporary & the one that is he admits is authentically dubious.
I’ve made a comment asking him about it & hopefully he responds as I respect Metatron but his conclusion is very strange considering his stance on Achilles and Patroclus.
@@MannerdDesert7 You are aware Achilles and Patroclus arent real people right?
That´s why I like ancient history but I never believe in almost anything written. Too few sources which can´t be authenticated.
@@levski19 If historians thought like that nothing would pass the bar lol.
@@OGTheDemon Indeed but still too much hypothesis and conjecture to suit me.
Richard the third's body was found in a parking lot in the UK fairly recently. A TON of documentaries were made about it, as well as a movie. On Netflix, I believe. Personally, I think that is more impressive as far as recent findings. Especially as it was then able to assess IF he was even "a hunchback", as we have all always believed, thanks to Shakespeare. It was interesting to learn about the curvature of his spine in detail. If you are into that sort of thing, that is...lol!
My memory of reading about Alexander and his army, while is about 30 years ago, is that he inherited his fathers well drilled soldiers. Principally his heavy infantry phalanx. They didn’t seem to get much attention in what I saw. All glory went to the cavalry, but if I’m not mistaken, they were the cream of the army but the heavy lifting (and largest part) was the phalanx.
Might be wrong though and happy to be corrected.
Alexander's army consisted of three parts. The Cavalry, the Phalanxes, and the light infantry. All were seen as important and Alexander was noted for giving the left flank to his Thracian Peltasts (javelin throwing light infantry) which was a position of great honor. But yes, the Phalanxes of pikemen where extremely important and the key to Macedonian success, they were unbeatable from the front.
No the cooks did the heavy lifting
All the great generals you mentioned are freakin' legends. For me, a totally underrated and underappreciated general in history is Eastern Roman General Flavius Belisarius. He barely gets any credit, despite the amazing feats he achieved. I think it's a wider issue, Eastern Roman (aka "Byzantine") history is underrepresented in modern media.
Sadly Belisarius (as awesome as he was) never had much lasting success due to massive underfunding. Thats probably why he never had that much of an impact in the History Books.
@@blablubb8615 yes, but I think that was mostly Justinian's fault.
@@jonirenicus9903 Well Byzantine was simply in no condition to invade anything at the time , but yes.
Netflix invites you to hear the story of one of history’s greatest conquerors: Alexander the Great. Played by one of the most compelling actors of our time: Jada Pinkett-Smith.
The New York Times raves: Pinkett-Smith delivers a powerful performance as Alexander.
The Washington Post proclaims: Pinkett-Smith has forever altered the way we will picture Alexander the Great.
And National Inquirer exclaims: Don’t ever let anyone tell you different - Alexander the Great was a Black Woman.
So brave!
Me: Clicked video.
Metatron: Stares back.
Me: "...yes?"
Metatron: "You're all wrong!"
Me: "...oh. OH!"
You left out. Then goes on to waste everybody's time. This video could have been ten minutes long with four or five topics. And that's including the add.
Was your mind blow by him waffling for ages?
I've been married three times... I am very used to being wrong, thank you.
King Phillips body( skeleton)Alexander's father is in an museum Vergina( in Thessaloniki Macedonia, ive seen it. We still search for Alexander's body.Love from Greece 🇬🇷 ❤🎉
How tall was he?
Alexander's body is very likely in Venice. "Saint Mark's" body, which happens to be a mummy, was evacuated from Egypt and taken to Venice long ago. Curiously, the sarcophagus shows the sarissa spear and Macedon symbol of the sun....
Edit - and a chunk of it is in the foundation of St Mark's cathedral.
Alexander was said to be taken to Egypt after death - and mummified / buried there. Hmmm....
Edit - mummified, not "modified" autocorrect 😅
Thank you for your unbiased opinion on the whole topic. I have learned very much from it and am really looking forward to your next videos about the series since I won't be watching it myself. That way I can be sure I get more historically correct information through you than from listening to the show.
My pleasure
He led every attack, he almost died on a tower as a result, fighting alone, with an arrow in his chest
Achilles: "Imagine a king who fights his own battles"
Alexander: Alright bet
@@firingallcylinders2949well he did liked reading illiad so..
@@Pavlos_Charalambous Alexander is an Achilles cosplay / acting method pushed too far
... and a hard on.
@@Pavlos_CharalambousEven more so he was one the HEROES who he worshipped!!! Despite he was a GOD himself!!!
I don't consider myself left, right or center. I like the truth, facts. Pursue the facts, don't back down. I can handle the truth. Very appreciative of your determination, Rafael. God bless you and your family everyday.
Yes, but that path leads to the right. For it is where truth, beauty and humor, are allowed to flourish.
It does. I was speaking of the political aspects of "The Right", for I do not put myself in such a place. Truth is so much larger than all the semantics modern society has attached to "a side" a person can take, would you agree? @@bloodworthmagic
it's good to see that we finally started to acknowledge the importance of the LGBT+ community thru out history.
being LGBT+ was not only a normal thing, but also it was very common, as we may see from many historical movies.
@@bloodworthmagic😂
@@itsMe_TheHerpesDid u not watch the video? The LGBT community did not exist throughout history. It's a modern concept and our idea of gay does not apply to history.
Have you heard the "theory" claiming the body of Saint Mark in Venice is actually Alexander the Great? I don't believe it but it's fun to think about in the Ancient Aliens sort of way and might make for an interesting video
I guess this kind of ”brotherly love”, from the Classical period, could be compared most with the modern concept of ”bromance”, where no sexual or (despite the term) romantic love or undertone is implied 🤔.
Yes still in the case here there was sexual included. Otherwise it was just well bromance as you say.
Prison stuff.
You are making the same mistakes as many of these modern commentators that Metatron criticizes. It's called presentism. As Metatron explains, this was not really a "bromance", this was the relationship between an erastes and an eromenos, strongly related to pederasty, all of which are concepts that no longer exists in modern culture. So you can't just view it in a modern lens, or you get a myopic view. Sexual relationships, intimacy, and even romantic love were a big part of these relationships, even though it firmly occupied a different social purpose than heterosexual marriage.
@@FaceJP24pederasty contrary to what people believe does not include sexual relationships.
@@blugaledoh2669 They were not *primarily* sexual relationships, but they definitely did include sexual aspects. It was considered shameful for the eromenos to be penetrated, so there's no record of them actually engaging in penetrative sex (though it would have happened sometimes or it wouldn't be mentioned), but there's absolutely accounts and depictions of intercrural sex, foreplay, and intimacy in general.
I had the video set to audio only (I was in my car) and I heard Metatron call out “JT” and I honestly jumped in my seat. I had to pull over and make sure that:
1. You weren’t mentioning me by name and
2. I hadn’t posted something that outrageously while blackout drunk or something.
Lol that’s funny
@@metatronyt it was quite frightening
Plutarch lived centuries after Alexander, I don't think that he was very knowledgeable about Alexander...
Ya dont know how historians actually work do ya lol?
@@OGTheDemon Wow, such a witty comment! Did you think it yourself? I have a master in history for your iformation. Plutarch was a historian, not a contemporary, thus whatever he wrote was hearsay from centuries ago. Would you base your knowledge of, let's say , Julius Caesar on what a scholar from the 5th century wrote? No, you'll prefer to see what those who knew him or at least those who lived at the same time wrote about it.
@@msinvincible2000 Whered u get that masters lol? We use the sources we have. Plutarch is a valid source especially when you COMPARE to his contemporaries. If we had to have someone following around said historical figure with a pen and recording his every movement, we wouldnt have history books. Do you realize how many parts of history we have to do that? Rly botheres u that he mighta sucked a dik huh?
@@OGTheDemonSo true! It's a known fact historians write off their Time Travel expenses on their taxes! 🤣
@@msinvincible2000 Lol "I have a master in history for ur iformation". I think ya been cheated. Now if you had a masters in antiquity, that would be different. We use the sources that are available to us and compare them to contemporaries of the time among other things. It rly rly bothers you that he mighta had sex with men among women doesnt it? Did it make ya p*cker tingle a lil bit when ya heard someone say it? Homosexuality was practiced in greece at the time. Not on a grand scale but it did occur. Sounds like ur own bias is bleeding thru ur words when you look at something like this.
Alexander (and his father) were incredibly underrated in sieges... they were masterful in a siege. Alexander was not simply a cavalry leader!
He was also a taco vendor
Steven the anglo was with alexander the south european in his campaigns
I think I must be Eris, because I kind of want to go back in time to Ancient Greece and "innocently" ask in the marketplace if Achilles and Patroclus were lovers, and if Andromeda was black or blonde, just to watch fights break out.
Would you mind making a video about the evolution of the views of sex, marriage and gender roles in the mediterranean, from ancient Egypt/Mesopotamia to Christianity? I think more people need to realize that most of our views come from how Romans decided to separate themselves from the rest of the Mediterraneans (as well as some consequences of their laws), and later from how Christians decided to separate themselves from the previously pagan Romans.
*Roman Christians
Wow Metatron, you got the silver fox look moving in on those locks of yours! Looking good brother!
Thank you sir
He gets them from having to deal with stuff like Netflix 😁
One of the most compelling personalities and one of the greatest military leaders who set out from a tiny country to topple the greatest empire of the time. A guy who had been taught by one of the greatest minds of the ancient world ( Aristotle) ,a military genius who could change his tactics a dozen times during a single battle and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.And Netflixs entire characterization of this guy is " he was super gay"
it wasn't a tiny country though, alexander had all of greece by his side and i believe also had the biggest army of the ancient world behind the achaemenid, 50k in iran and 40k at home, in all of his battles only twice has he ever outnumbered by at most at 2:1 ratio or 2.5:1. So not a small fry at all.
@@theforsakeen177 first of all he didn't have all of Greece by his side, prominent city states like Sparta didn't follow the campaign
2) for gods sake open a fk map and see how tiny Greece was and how big the Achaemenid empire was. Like that point is just retarded.
@@theforsakeen177 for some reason my comment was deleted. Anyway open a nap and see about what sizes we're actually talking about.
No, its not! The part of he “being gay” is just A PART of the FIRST EPISODE….
@@GothPaokiIt was still by no means, "tiny".
The Macedonian Empire left by Philip II was the average size of advanced states at the time (as the unification of China hadn't occurred and the Maurya Empire hadn't risen yet).
It just so happened that the Achaemenid Empire that Alexander fought was the outlier when it comes to its size
I feel your pain. For me, my current fight is trying to correct people who put up the Captain Cook got stabbed in the neck for being a colonizer posts on FB. They shit me. It's such a jingoistic and incorrect assessment of the man. Sure, he has his place in terms of responsibility for colonization, but he was primarily an explorer, and the really ugly stuff happened after he was dead.
Oh, and screw Netflix.
Given these sources are so freaking far past Alexander's time on this Earth, the confusion surrounding the language they used - and what *they* meant by it, as well as the potential bias of the sources themselves, the question of whether or not he was gay isn't even worth debating.
that could be said of nearly everything we know about Alexander.
@@gavinrolls1054 Not really.
Joe Rogan? 😅😅😅😅😅 please why do wd care what these ill educated people think. I have a Degree in Chinese History and a Degree in Medieval History. I am ancient..😅 so ths way facts and historical sources actually upsets me and angers me greatly. Dymbing down history. 😡
As a Greek person, I haven't even watched the series and I still cringe from the use of modern English-style nicknames.
That being said, modern Greek does have its own kind of diminutive names (different fromm English of course), so I wonder if there's any historical evidence for something similar in Ancient Greece (obviously not exactly the same).
About the eromenos part. Considering there is a an interpretation of the erastis/eromenos relationship as one of teacher and student (that could potentially, but not necessarily include sexual elements), a perspective that you've shared before I believe in your video about Ancient Greece being gay or not, how certain can we actually be whether the relationship described had a sexual nature?
Also, I think it'd be interesting to consider Plato's idea on Eros in this debate (platonic eros, vulgar eros vs divine eros) and whether such ideas that ascribe more to Eros than just bodily attraction were more widespread in that era or if Plato was coming up with fairly new concepts.
It seems to me that even your conclusion, balanced as it is, isn't as clear as you made it out to be, at least until addressing why the above caveats don't apply, so I think it'd be interesting to discuss this in more detail.
Ah, dude, stop trying to conceal the fact that he liked men and women. The sources are very clear about that; they are subtle, but clear, and you have to willingly delude yourself if you're not catching that.
@@proveritate1205 I haven't read the sources myself, so I can't comment on that. Metatron makes a good case, it's just that I think he didn't go as deep into the topic as he could have, considering he himself has talked about the things I mentioned in the past, just not about Alexander specifically.
Diogenes calling someone the F word isn´t really proof of anything appart from diogenes beeing diogenes.
Stop projecting your own prejudices onto historical figures. He never called him anything near that. You surely would though
Funny that excessive drinking does lower testosterone levels. Aristotle wasn’t completely wrong.
Also - "performance issues." 🍌
The Greek language has many different words that describe different kinds of love. Some examples:
Φιλία is friendship.
Στοργή is filial.
Αγάπη is a general affection.
Ανιδιοτελής αγάπη is unconditional love.
Αφοσίωση is devotion.
Έρως is romantic/sexual.
Μανία is obsessive.
Φιλαυτία is egoism.
Λαγνεία is lust.
interesting.
these terms change within the span of 25 centuries
@@naevan1 But you can still find the ancient meaning of the words because the ancient Greeks themselves wrote the definitions.
@@locusta-bw2vd on what dialect ? The attic? The Macedonian? The Laconian? It is not as simple and most papers just speculate and project the historians own beliefs in it, so take everything with a grain of salt
@@naevan1 Read the original texts yourself. No need to read papers made by historians. As forthe dialect, it is mostly Attic and Koine, because most philosophers used those two.
I'd like to know your thoughts on the video by Leather Apron Club about ancient greek attitudes about lgbt, specifically pederasty. In his video, he argued that pederasty wasn't primarily sexual in nature, but was meant to be a kind of mentor/mentee relationship, and that sexual pederasty was severely discouraged.
That's not some controversial take. In most cases is was a completely normal mentor - mentee relationship. There are even stories of men of higher status being killed for raping boys as their mentor
I appreciate this channel and the detail of the explanations given but I still am not sure Hephaestion and Alexander where ever intimate. First I'll go to Achilles and Patroclus were never considered as lovers anyone who has read the Iliad knows there's zero portrayal of this. What most don't know is that an Athenian playright who himself was gay living in the 5th century wrote a play based on the Iliad and re-wrote the story portraying Achilles and Patroclus as lovers. It's this play that academics have used as evidence of this, I believe the playrights name was Aschyleus.
Maybe Alexander did have sex with men but I'm not sold on it with the evidence portrayed still. The word eromenos isn't enough as what it means towards intimacy as the Greek language is very complex in meanings that seem straight forward. Example the word xenos means foreigner or stranger. My parents are Greek and were from two villages about 30 minutes apart. People in each village refer to my parents as xenos which seems odd but it's simply foreign from this town. Calling Philip a barbarian is used today as propaganda that Macedonia was not a Greek kingdom as barbarian meant non Greek. Of course the context was Barbarian as an insult towards Philip as a Greek who wanted acceptance from his Greek countrrparts. I'm just not convinced eromenos was meant the way it appears to us today.
Again I'm open to the idea Alexander was simply a penetrator for lack of a better description but I also know that ancient Greeks in that era were utterly horrified by eunics, a relationship with Bagoas would've been a horrific idea for his countrymen.
Either way i aporeciate the way you go into the details you do to try and explain this polarizing issue.
On a final note people need to understand that the roughly 1,500 years of ancient Greek history societies would have changed drastically through different persiods. There were times where homosexuality was punishable by death and eras it was accepted. If we look back 50 years in our societies today and see how vastly different each decade is how can anyone accept 1,500 years of culture that is unchanged, it's simply impossible.
Alexander greatly admired Achilles. Achilles was a warrior.
That was before he was a heel
a nice love relationship. like we the LGBT always say "love is love"
@@itsMe_TheHerpes No. He was a warrior.
Love of evil is nothing to be proud of.
@@watch7966 yeees, a warrior. but i have a question, why would it be a problem is he was LGBT+ ?
@@itsMe_TheHerpes Metatron specifically stated he was NOT lgbt, or gay or straight. He was more specifically pansexual.
Ancient Roman’s speaking modern Italian is something I’d expect from like a Mel brooks film! Lol
I don't care what they tell you in school...
.... Metatron is black :o)