UO being Stat Sets also means that we don't need to worry about promotion unlike FE especially whenever there is a new title. Usually its a debate whenever its good to promote early or max out the base class before promotion. FE Engage for example has benefits promoting early because you can take advantage of better growth rates. Now in UO it doesn't matter when you promote (after its unlocked) and its just gonna be who are gonna promote first since it depends on your Honor currency.
@@JeffPenaify People think it's not because gamers have a tendency to min-max everything. How do you min-max a Fire Emblem character when you don't have infinite levels before Three Houses? Level a unit to 20, promote, level to 20 again, reset level with Second Seal if possible. That way you get the maximum amount of level ups before they promote. Promoted units gain EXP slower and if you do not have Second Seals to mitigate it, you have less level ups to roll those growths with if you promote early. In all honesty, you probably *are* making the mid-game unnecessarily harder on yourself by saving all your promotions for a bunch of Level 20's, but gamer brains want that 20/20 stat sheet. When it comes to a specific game like Three Houses, you absolutely are wasting your time because you keep your level when promoting and in fact gain catch-up stats as a result of unlocking better classes. And you're REALLY wasting your time in Echoes because you really really need those promotions sooner rather than later, not to mention despite being an older style of FE, you get multiple promotions in a run, so this is only an issue for games where units only get a single promotion period. Every other game that dodges single promotion rules or limitations, you don't need to be full OCD on level capped promotions. ...Honestly I think it's worse for us overseas people because we *started* with 20/20 capped games.
@@UltimaKeyMaster yeah but realistically the big stat boosts and improved growths of a promotion make playing the waiting game diminished returns and unnecessary stress. Your character will get better stats early on and have better growth rates when you promote it, so not only will you have a nasty endgame unit, you will have a more reliable unit midgame. It depends on character and luck of the roll but id say on average youre better off promoting soon as you can, most times whatever stats youd build waiting another 10 levels will be mediocre, and youre trying to baby the character the whole time, the real growths and stat boosts happen on promotion
Stat sets remind me of what Symphony of war does with its affinity’s that boost certain , where if you change an affinity half way through the game all their stats will update.
Yeah thinking about it, works exactly the same way. They both have stat boosters too, just Symphony Of War lets you go ham with them where Unicorn Overlord has limits on those stat boosters too.
Thank you so much for making this. I kind of prefer this system, as it removes the RNG with Unit growth and you can better focus on the tools you have instead of worrying with the looming threat of poor Level Up's.
I really liked the way they standardized the growths by type since it alows for unique units to be weird or take advantage of different equipment then usual to capitalize on what they do have while generics provide a nearly free path to pure combat efficiency for min maxing. Like its so cool to think that a unique character could just be worse by default compared to a faceless generic because the growth combo they have in some way reflects their character.
@@dizzyheads there’s an item called an idealist mirror that allows you to change your appearance and stat set which even works on the actual characters.
It’s good for balance because they have a definite “this is the lowest initiative character” and can look at all possible buffs to initiative to find how far it can go. I mean think of it for any stat, but it is just a really good way to do it. Also it pushes stats into a certain category: gear. We now think about our limited pieces of gear and where they should go. Like the recruits gear at the start of the game also has, in addition to the xp boost, a bonus to attack because a level 1 character would actually need that. They can design from the bottom without worrying about unexpected growths that move characters into unexpected stat potentials due to rng. If you want to max out Ochlys’s initiative it can only get so high.
Protip: if you want 2 gryphon knights with one to sweep and the other to dodge tank, name the attacker/offensive one with the letters you want Amanda/Ophelia and the defensive/tank Diana/Trisha. Much faster than looking up stats if you have clear roles for the same units. Or color code them...
I think it's part of the customization that makes this game great-- seems like the devs didn't want to lock us into characters or classes, and we can even change how they grow, their tactics, appearance, etc. Josef is the only one and we all know he's OP to help with leveling the mercs you hire.
While you’re right that rate doesn’t have to imply RNG, I think the issue is that players familiar with the genre understandably associate the term with RNG. Therefore, to lessen confusion I’m all for calling them something else.
@@DietersYT I mean the term fixed growths has been used on FE since there are options in some games to have growths not be random and just fixed based on their growth rates. I'd argue calling them something different is pointless where a term for them has already existed for decades.
@@DietersYT I think it would cause more confusion to call them something else than the game does, if others disagree and the community dubs them something else eventually to distinguish them fair enough though.
@@twigz3214 what do you mean “than the game does”? Are they called growths in-game? I don’t see them named anywhere. If they are named in-game, I think we should use whatever that is.
Something I noticed about exp is that it seems like if you aren’t in the red you always gain the same amount of exp, modified by any exp boosting skills. However lower levels require less exp per level, meaning that you will still level faster.
the biggest perk to set stats is that from a developers standpoint, it's much easy to balance enemies for. i can't imagine the headache involved to balance for RNG Screwed armies.
I'm happy to find this out. Stats being fixed in most tactics games would hurt replayablility, but UO has so many characters, routes through the game and possible unit combos that it doesn't have to worry about that. Instead, they can take advantage of the satisfying consistency of knowing what stats you'll get with little downside.
I like how you don't feel the need to sacrifice natural gameplay to some bs growth optimization like in all the FE games and FFT. You stay in a class for gameplay reason, not because it gives you better growth.
I liked pretty much everything about the demo. I liked the leveling system. To me it means you will always be able to beat every scenario you just might have to change up your strategy. The only thing I didn't like was that you couldn't name the mercenaries. Other than that I cant wait to play more
I really like this decision. I hate getting RNG screwed with stats when I play SRPGs. For a game where you are building a squad which effectively acts as a single unit I think more focus on equipment loadouts and tactics offers enough diversity with stat boosters to round out a build or favorite character.
I imagine that I'm an outlier, since I know very little about Fire Emblem and its mechanics (but I'm not so blind that I cannot grasp the comparisons made), but I kinda realized halfway through the game that they're not "Growths". They're more accurately described as "Talents", "Focuses", or to borrow a term from the older Fallout games, they're "Tagged" stats. Ultimately, they give an upfront, one-time stat change independent of level and class. I don't see any flaw with the system UO employs here, as it means the player has a teeny tiny bit of influence on bumping a given character's stats a certain way if hiring or using the mirror. This makes min-maxers happy, and for other players it encourages them to experiment with their new hires' stats and pay more attention to how battles play out. Eventually I concluded that for my playthrough, I'm not solely dependent on having that one extra stat point here or there, so I worried less about new hires' growths and more about where best to utilize their class. And it turns out that not worrying about it doesn't result in being penalized later. I dread to think how much I'd come to hate playing a system where I'd be 'expected' to save scum until my units gets an 'optimal' level up.
Remarcable review. They really made an effort to put in the players hands the choice of customization and playstyle. It's much more open to changes an I like.
Yea, i started the game and replayed the beginning and this is about what my guess was when reloading a few times and attempting a restart to see if stats would upgrade differently. But i had no idea about the shop...
After the psychic torment of several FE games where my lord has had the most gimped and cursed growths imaginable I'm fully in support of entirely deterministic stats.
I think this is a good thing. At first I wasn't sure but thinking it over, the less RNG the more the game can properly set the difficulty. In Fire Emblem you get a few RNG blessed units and it can really make the game too easy at times. Here you are level capped (effectively) and the units will always have the expected stats. Sure maybe players find cheese with different unit combos but it should help with difficulty balancing. Really excited to check this game out on release! I am loving your content. Keep up the good work! Edit- apparently I should just finish the video first bc you covered what I said, and put it better 🤣
This game has generic *character creation* on top of the named units AND neither are gimped but more so stand out for roleplay purposes? Man, I'm used to FFT being like "here's a bunch of units and your generics have a standard male/female appearance" but letting EVERY GENERIC have at least a Robin level of customization is insane to me. It'll actually feel like MY army.
As a complete newcomer to strategy RPG’s, this is great. I can focus on in game strategy and not have to think about leveling timing and other stuff that I just find takes away from my enjoyment personally.
Yes i have always been a proponent of fixed growths in Fire emblem, playing an FE game with fixed growths has always felt better then the random growth ones and to be honest FE doesn't need random growths. The variation you get from just simply what class you pick for a unit and how long you keep them in that class before switching plus the combination of skills you choose for them is enough to make them feel special and the fact that they already have personal growth rates means random growth just simply aren't needed for the game to be fun.
I am personally do not mind having no randomness. This might be actually downer for Hardcore FE fans who will juice this game for next 20 years, but for person who likely to play once or maybe twice, resetting because you got bad roll on growth is daunting task.
Basically "growths" are natures. They are growths, just not the same way Tactical RPGs use that term. Its the same kind of growth in Pokemon terms haha
I take it you confirmed this with Lex, Colm, and a generic fighter or some similar situation? I remember people saying they were getting different stats on their initial Alain level up. I guess that was just a misconception.
I just call it “growth type” because that's what the game calls it. There's nothing inherently “random” implied by the word “growth,” it just means the unit is, well, *growing*, which they are. It's the “rates” part which, well, technically doesn't imply randomness either, but is more associated with it.
I think the restriction on exp gain after 3 levels above the recommended is a very smart move because it prevents you from becoming a God mid or early game, you still get some exp and at the same time you have somewhat of a challenge when completing missions. To me that is something I always wanted.
Not that stat growths need to go away forever but I'm incredibly pleased that Vanillaware came up with a new way of doing things and I believe this is actually a GREAT system.
Is this really much different then fixed growths in FE though? The only real difference I see is that every character is like an avatar unit now with 2 boon modifier's you can customize. I agree it's a great system but i don't think it's anything new that Vanillaware came up with, just them simply recognizing an already great way of doing things. The color customizing of units is a nice touch though
@@skywing217The color custom is such a Vanillaware classic. Their only game on the PSP I believe also features the same system (although it's a tile-based adventure game locked behind a timed campaign because the main focus is the Army mechanic)
I wonder if the growth rates mean a set stat limit based on the letter. An “S” rank in HP at level 20 would be at 100 while an “E” rank would be at 60. Using stat boosting items the “S” rank HP allows you to cap at 150 while the “E” rank gets you to 90. This also can be even more complex as certain job classes no matter what you set your growth types to will not achieve an “S” in certain categories.
Really love this system ironically gives complete freedom to role play allowing players to choose which units(named or not) to accompany you during the story
I'm playing expert. I just take the cast and roll through the maps (a lot have been pretty small). Bosses put up a bit of a fight that's about it. While this has the perks of being simple it also has the drawbacks of being simple. I will very very likely just one and done and forget this. When it comes to rng leveling up you can usually just save scum so it's fairly w/e.
I do prefer the random growths in FE, it makes them risky and yet fun at the same time. However, I also like using my favorites, which Unicorn Overlord lets me do without having to worry about them being bad.
It works for the game its in! Fire Emblem's works because it makes units feel different to each other. Using Engage and the three Axe Fighters in it, Boucheron, Panette and "Lady" Annie, their growths if you keep them in their expected class reflect their character and make them different to each other. Boucheron benefiting by fitting the Axe Fighter Archetype which is he's relying on his Axes Might for the damage and his strengths of High HP and BLD mean he'll rarely be slowed by his axes and can survive longer then Panette and Anna. But Panette can better strengthen the Axes Might with her high Strength stat and better criticsl rate increase especially the closer to death she gets due to her personal skill, but she's pretty fragile and her bld is lower. Anna is the most fragile and all her axes slow her. However if you make it to level 10 you can make her a Warrior or just second seal her, as a warrior she keeps her able to join battles with her bow and can use the radiant bow and longbow to devestate. Or make her a sage to take advantage of her magic, axe mage knight, or sniper/bow knight, your choice! Changing classes works in FE do to the scope of its systems. The fun I love with Fire Emblem is these differences and the fact I never know how a run will go. Hell my 5th run of Engage back in 2023 March, My Swordmaster Lapis Strength caught up to her SpD despite her speed growth being high because she was getting stat ups to strength for some reason more then Speed. Hell my last run in Three Houses, Ingrid was the same and I kep her as a Pegasus Knight/Falcon Knight. Strategy Games like Unicorn Overlord are best left to Fixed Growths because their longer then a Fire Emblem game. Same with Tactics ogre cause the creators of Overlord did their research. Do look back at Ogre Battle and OB64😅 it was sometimes a nightmare especially your first run with a guide and still learning to grow your army because of alot of "not well explained factors" and thank god UO didn't bring back much of the busy work (even if I love March of the black queen and 64, I will never forget my first run of 64 where it took awhile to get a wizard and that wizard was mediocre because he was previously A FUCKING WARRIOR😅 yeah he was the only male I had that got anywhere near the stat requirements! I was lucky to beat the game with my only great units being the unique characters and lucky "recruitments/poaching" my second runs were easier only cause I knew what to do and even then busy work got annoying and I had to keep looking at the guide to remember some things! Happy they took Fire Emblems approach to its systems, which was make them simpler. I stay in the game and the only time I pause in UO is when I'm thinking my next moves....or picking the switch up to take ut to the bathroom 😂)
It has its pros and cons, personally I prefer the RNG leveling up. It's a bit more exciting and emotional getting a REALLY good level up for a character you really like and annoying when there is a bad one. It also makes things fresh for repeated playthroughs, the character in your last playthrough that was wrecking house is getting middling results this time, "Guess you have to switch it up and try someone else". However a fixed set like in UO also provides for a more stable and uniform experience. A bit duller but also not likely to completely ruin your playthrough and soft lock out the characters that the game feels are important.
I prefer dynamic growths, myself. I think it adds an element of uniqueness to each character that's scantly found in UO. The game's given me a serious lack of cause to use the prebuild units rather than making my own. Seeing rapport conversations is the only reason I can think of to use Lex, Chloe, etc. over a superior mercenary of the same class. You could make a decent counterargument by bringing up resource scarcity, but with the extra missions that the shaman introduces where you can grind for experience to catch your mercenaries up to the prebuilt units and earn back the honors you spent recruiting them, that argument largely becomes invalid. Dynamic growths and stuff like personal skills would fix this for me, I think. Voiced rapport conversations would also help to encourage me. Making custom mercenaries is really fun and all, but it needs to be balanced out a bit, as pretty much everyone except for Alain and Joseph are replaceable at present.
I don't really see why any of that is a problem or why it needs to be "balanced out." It's very clear they intended the incentive to use uniques IS the rapport system both narratively and the stat boosts. If you're someone who likes unique characters, use them. I don't see why they need to be statistically better than generics. It's not the game's fault if your need to power game and optimize leads you to missing out on using the unique characters, nor does it have an obligation to make them optimal. It's just as valid for someone to say they hate the fact uniques are always better because they're prefer to use generics in games like this. Which people IN this comment section have said they're grateful for.
@@williampounds5191 Just to be clear, since I think you misunderstand me, I like being able to hire and customize generics and I hated how in Fire Emblem Fates the generic hires were useless compared to the uniques. In a sense, UO is an overcorrection of what was wrong in Fates. The characters provided through the story don't provide enough uniqueness to justify their existence. And if the generics come with the benefit of being tuned specifically by the player to fulfill a role perfectly, then I think giving unique characters a minor skill like "+2 damage against hoplites" would be a decent way to balance things, because as is, uniques are always worse than generics. Again, I like generics, and I like doing crazy stuff like making Flayn from FE Three Houses into a barbarian. I'm not a power gamer. I just want something more than unvoiced rapport convos to give me a reason to use the uniques, because as is, I feel there's MORE incentive to use generics as you can name them, give them special designs, voices, and stat growths. What do uniques offer to counter that? Not much...I mean, generics get rapport and stat bonuses too if you haven't noticed. The only thing they miss out on are the conversations, and who really cares about that when they aren't voiced? With all that said, I think Vanillaware did a good job overall. I've just noticed myself benching the majority of unique units in the game and while I feel bad about it, I don't see any good reason to stop since the uniques just aren't worth bothering with when I can get a much better generic for just a few honor points. Dynamic growths could do a little bit to change this, as any fire emblem vet would know the feeling of having an unexpected unit get a slew of lucky level ups, becoming your MVP of the run, and earning a place in your heart.
@@williampounds5191 I'd argue it is the game's fault for giving some characters just bad growths. Also generics still get the stat boost from rapport, all units do even if they don't have conversations with one another and it can be checked on the 3rd tab of the unit info screen in any squad. You can swap some growths of your unique characters though with a item you get, we only know of 2 so far though so we'll see how many there are. I think making them balanced is the best solution, some of the growth choices for characters are great like with Aubin's but some like Chloe's and Selvie's feel like they actively tried to make them bad for the character. Being able to change them later I think fixes most of the issues if we see the item on a regular basis though.
Stat Templates as opposed to growth rates for me. It just makes more sense when I think of each class having their own template that is static and not random.
I discovered the aux battles. I have destroyed this game's economy and everyone is level 20 (including every single generic). Levelling is no issue because of Treatises that can farmed from aux battles where you can just send a flying unit (Ochlys) to assassinate the enemy command post. And in turn you gain renown and honor and I maxed all that out. Plus due to taverns you no longer need to farm rapport. Because Aux battles gives you an immense amount of money over a long period of farming. I'm very grateful for the game for these features. However now that you've given me the option to steamroll the game. I will just straight up do that. If I had known this was an option from the start I would have played in a much harder difficulty to offset my cheesing. Plus given that battles are not as limited as I was first impressed upon, I don't feel like the rapports are earned as the lady you marry is suppose to be the lady Alain has fought together with and gained max rapport. But if I can just farm that with taverns... the earning your bride's affections aspect feels very superficial (literally took a girl to a bar and wined and dined her until she liked me for throwing money at her). Quality of life can ruin the perceived authentic experience.
A welcome change. I wouldn't want this system to be in every game, but it will make UO a fresh experience. Now I don't need to worry about not using a unique character until I can use a mirror to get the "optimal" stats I want.
the randomness was always so annoying if i always know how a type of soldier will be set up i don't need to worry about the "meta" i can just level characters up when and where i get em.
I think the point of making stat sets rather then growths is to put a higher emphasis on using the tactics systems rather then RNGblessed/RNGscrew players,
Can we confirm now that the official game is out that growths indeed work this way? As you have more properly renamed them, “growths” are really Stat Sets?
I agree with having more controlled vsriables in SRPGs. You look at a game like FE 3 Houses, the devs had zero idea what the average playthrough would look like due to all the thousands of variables they give you and as a result the difficulty balancing suffered. Compare this to UO or FE Engage where the variables are heavily reduced and the games feel incredibly balancedin a satisfying way
I love this. Always hated the fact that some units in FE are simply useless compared to other ones. And even then you can either be super lucky and gain good level ups or quite the opposite and missing out on DPS-focused stats the past 5 levels and now you are stuck in limbo with that unit. The way it is in UO you can definitely pick any unit that you like in whatever fashion you want and potentially adjust stats or even looks. This alone provides enough replayability. Definitely beats the "I steamroll with Bob until chapter X because lol broken."
Fire Emblem Engage actually uses this standarized growth system, with the traditional growth rates system unlockable upon finishing the game for the first time. Both are valid ways to go around it, I think the standard system is great for a first run, while the more random one makes replaying the game more fun. There's a lot of stuff going on in UO so random level ups might not be that interesting to play with however.
It's mainly the team dynamic that would make random growths a poor fit for this game. If one member of a party isn't doing the job they are suppose to be good at then it tears down everyone in that squad. The team comps are too fine tuned and made up of too many moving parts for that level of variance to work in this game. Also it would be too easy to create many misconceptions about what teams do and don't work simply because one member of the party performed too differently than the average for their class.
The system is somehow close to Pokémon. In Pokémon you have a nature that boosts one stat by 10% at the cost of -10% in another. Then you have IV score for each stat that determines how much of any given stat you will get, exactly like stat growth operate except you get a lot more combination possible. And EV in Pokémon are essentially how stat boosters work except once again you can have a lot more and you can't have more than a fix number total instead of having it per stat like in unicorn (actually in the first generations it used to work like in unicorn). Granted the values from both games are quite different but fundamentally it's working the exact same. Two Pokémon with the same equivalent of stat growth and stat boosters will always have the same stats no matter what, just like units of the same class will in unicorn.
I guess it will reduce the grind and rng elements, but it also removes a lot of player choice. I'm surprised that even story characters are not unique to any way in battle. It means we will hire a merc at start of the game and we will never ever change them, because everyone is the same
I seem to be in the monitory, but I don’t like set stat growth. Why take any character over another then? I like some degree of randomness, using a less than optimal character because I simply like him or her. This is going to really make it a min maxers fever dream. I’ll do my best to avoid it but there will no doubt be people finding the most optimal broken setups within days of release. Additionally why does the game feature a stat increase when leveling up? Is that just to give the illusion of random stat increase? It totally makes it pointless to show that then. I dunno, I’m old school and I like a bit more mystery to my strategy rpgs
Why take any character over another then? Because even with fixed growths Anna in engage still gets magic level ups 5 out of 10 level ups as a freaking warrior for gods sake and no one in the game can every take that fact away from her or out perform because it's a unique trait exclusive to her because no one else has a 50 magic growth rate when serving as a warrior. It makes Anna as a warrior special compared to all the other potential warriors you could use because she is the best shining bow user because of this and i enjoy that unique aspect to her as a character, So why use any other warriors? Because Alcryst as a warrior can use the silver bow because his bow proficiency bumps him up to B rank his personal skill is also kick ass and entirely unique to him. Boucheron on the other hand can only use C rank bows but his insane build and speed growth makes him one of the best axe units for doubling with heavy axes. These characters don't need random growths to stand out because they already have unique traits that make them stand out from everyone else. All it takes is for people to move away from the meta gaming to realize all the unique things these characters can do and find fun new ways to use them even if it may not be optimal its cool as shit and surprising effective at times none the less. Now why use Lex over a generic fighter in this game? No idea, but i've only played a small bit of this game and the point still stands you don't need random level ups to make characters stand out and i have a feeling the the unique aspect of characters in this game will be in their rapport conversations and the cool equipment you give them. Their growth modifiers probably make them feel a bit special too to a lesser extent
This isn't even that unordinary. Pokemon, if you set aside EVs and IVs, has basically this exactly. Two Pikachu with the same level will always have the same stats, aside from their nature which will give +10% to a stat and -10% to a stat. In more recent games you can even change their nature and with works just like changing growth types with the idealists handmirror in this game.
What bothers me is that unique characters almost always have really bad stat growth combinations for their classes I always prefer my non unique characters in comparison because their stats are what they need them to be. Hopefully the mirror is very easy to come across past the first area. For instance I almost always put attack and initiative on high damage classes helping me getting first hit on same level enemies way more often. It's the one thing that I find a bit annoying, I think they chose the growth for the unique characters based on how the character is written and not on stats that make sense for the class.
This actually makes generics slightly better than unique combatants because you can choose their growth rates at the time you make them vs. paying 30k to do it, and so far that's extremely limited to only being able to do this one time, for one character... obviously unique non-mercenary classes are a different case, but that also means they should get priority for mirrors
Well there is still the rapport system to contend with. Also unique characters could verily easily have growth rates that are still good for a role that class can be used for on top of that.
So in D&D terms, this is wholly the difference between Rolling for stats vs Standard Array. Rolling is more varied and fun (unless you roll like shit), while Standard Array makes for a more balanced experience. Both have pros and cons, and neither are clearly better than the other. I guess UO is going for balance in this regard, and I don’t think that’s a bad decision at all.
I wonder how this works then when it feels like characters like Alain and Lex seem to always get magic on level ups on my first run despite not adjusting their growths. I know Alain for me had like equal magic and str when I was playing and I've no idea if that's working as intended or not.
I never liked random growths. Any bad level up feels terrible, while a lucky streak only makes the game more imbalanced. Really a no win scenario. And in games with class changes, the whole concept of growth instead of sets tends to annoy me anyway. For instance, the Engage Anna situation frustrate me to no end. Gaining a level as a lv10 fighter feels bad when you plan to second seal her into a caster.
Random stat gains are needed in Fire Emblem because the gameplay mechanics are quite simple. UO probably went with set stats because the gameplay is complicated enough as is. If you want variety on a replay, just build different teams and make them work.
I disagree that random stat gains are needed for fire emblem; intelligent systems could easily adopt the fixed growth formula for all future FE entries they just won't because they are too stuck in their ways and fear moving away from their roots despite how much this one change would improve their games for the better. I would argue that all FE games since FE Awakening have had enough layers of complexity to warrant the removal of fixed growths entirely. If you want replay ability just make each unit a different class this time or pair Olivia with Libra this time to give Inigo access to sage and thus different skills and therefore a unique combination of skills this time. And based on how bad lunatic was balanced in awakening that game needed fixed growths to be balanced. I've spent hours planning out mother father pairings for children in awakening just for the sake of trying new builds. Just wish the first few chapters weren't such a bitch on lunatic in awakening.
@@AquilaGuardTrue things like skill emblem, reclassing, personal spell lists, and skills locked behind engage ring accessibility have really changed the landscape in recent FE game design they certainly have come up with a lot of interesting ideas over the years.
So, i dont really have too much of a problem with fixed growth, but is there really no difference between unique characters and mercenaries? If so, that's kind of disappointing. Is there any reason to use the unique characters then?
Thought i'd share as well my top 2 stats for each character based on how i think each should be optimized (1st mentioned being main prio): 1. alain-def and guard 2. travis-eva and init 3. josef-phys and crit 4. aubin-phys and init 5. clive-phys and crit 6. yahna-mag and init 7. auch-mag and init 8. sharon- eva and mag 9. rolf-phys and init 10. mordon-phys and init 11. bruno-phys and init 12. berenice-eva and phys 13. hodrick-def and guard 14- chloe-phys and init 15, selvie-eva and init 16. lex-def and guard
People complaining that "it's too easy"? Man, I wish we had that in Japan😅 People absolutely dunked on TO Reborn cuz you couldn't simply walk up and punch enemies to death. Well, you could, but that would be a nightmarish experience as you keep getting incapacitated units. And you couldn't overlevel units to steamroll. So. They all shouted "What a trash game! All you can do is pray for rng! Devs added random cards which you must pick up before the enemy! There are no tactics now!"
@@TitaniumLegman Haha, I wouldn't call them fake per se. Just delusional. They can't distinguish between their own personal preferences and objective reality. I understand where they're coming from. I got similar issues with FE games. If it doesn't resemble Genealogy of the Holy War, then it's a no go for me. But. I don't go around claiming that the "this just ain't it" FE games are somehow objectively bad. They don't match what I want, but that got nothing to do with objective quality of the game. As for Reborn... Oh god... Long time fans of the original, people who hated the psp version were the loudest. They were so used to stats being everything and levels actually having a huge impact, that they automatically assumed the same being true in the remakes. Boss is 2 levels higher? So strong. They start with 4 buff cards? What a cheap way to up the difficulty. Items? Never heard of anything apart from healing ones. Skills? What's that? UO seems to be circumventing all of that. They do have difficulty settings. The union level you mentioned? Not a problem here, cuz you can still grind the levels. People would go to unimaginable lengths just to avoid thinking. I heard of a player in Reborn who got stuck on Ch.2 duel with Leonar, so what did he do? Think of a plan? Use skills? Use items? No. He went into the woods to hunt dragons, sell them and boost Denim's stats. Yeah. Dozens, hundredth of hours spent on essentially meaningless grind.
Do assist units gain xp as well? As in, can I make a dedicated assist unit (only archers, mages or clerics) and can it still level up by only assisting?
I was just wondering about this because I noticed that I had gotten really lackluster level ups like just a single point of hp on a non-tank character. I think this system works well for the game. I'm just personally disappointed. This means I can't deathball using the most meme character for my own entertainment because growths are so constricted. A lot of my enjoyment in games in TRPG's is hugely tied to finding the one character I love, finding a hilarious build and rocking it the whole game. An example of this is Mist from Fire Emblem PoR as well as RD. I loved the idea of a feeble little girl beating up a huge army by herself with a stick of a sword just by investing time into her for her growths. However, I do admit that many people default to meta strategies which can make it seem like enjoyment "plateau's" earlier in the game.
I've only played the demo once, just got it, and i really am liking GoGetter as my favorite Growth so far. But need to play a few more times, try out some more unit mixes etc. This forst play through i tried to p much have one of every class XD just to try them all out.
With as much hate as Reborn got from randos about the Union Level, it's funny that Triangle Strategy and Unicorn Overlord both effectively have a Union Level system, they just make you gain 1exp when you fight someone at your level, and then they get none of the complaints. I do think you convinced me less than Unicorn Overload is weird and more that Fire Emblem is super weird, though. That said, the randomization of stat gains is something that could be extremely frustrating in a game like Ogre Battle 64 where your class decided the stat gain ranges, so you wanted to evolve/reclass quickly... but the new class (or monster evolution) required certain stats to make the leap. I guess I'm saying that we all had a baby flood dragon who kept getting the bare minimum MIND increase per level and thus could just never evolve into her final ultimate dragon form. Though that game tossed stat items your way quite often, and I suspect they did that specifically so you could 'nudge' a character's stats just high enough to turn your divine knights into seraphim. Really curious what customization options the mirror unlocks for Ochlys.
“Growth” implies that it’s your character getting that stat, which they kinda do… as long as you don’t ever change their stat sets. The fact that changing a character’s stat set swaps their stats around as if they had always been of the other type is what makes the word “growth” weird to use here. With that said, it’s the standard terminology for the genre so it’ll probably stick around regardless.
The stat growth system in fire emblem series really deterred me from playing them. I prefer much simpler, predetermined stat growths like Unicorn Overlord apparently has so im not stressing over that stuff.
its 100% better this way. there is NO PLACE for rng when building a character. imagine you level your character in dark souls and its a 50/50 chance to level either your strength or dex, hell nah bro. its absolutely better to keep stat growths controlled and straightforward.
So the Growth Types are what determined the characters overall growths that are set no matter what to what character in the same Class if i follow it right?
@@TitaniumLegman Than perhaps the Letters next to the stat numbers are the maximum stats what said character can reach, by that i mean the S is the highest stat that can be reached and the F is the lowest stat that would be maxed, granted i can be wrong about it
@@michaelgorski4221 some uniques like Auch get you more items overall if you keep them around tho, so it might be more a case of short term vs long term gain.
I think the only benefit for unique characters is that you get 2 honors when you watch a rapport conversation, you don't get any if they don't have a conversation but you still get the same stat boosts. I guess the other benefit of Unique's is it not costing honors to recruit them and some have questionable growths but others still have good ones for their role.
UO being Stat Sets also means that we don't need to worry about promotion unlike FE especially whenever there is a new title. Usually its a debate whenever its good to promote early or max out the base class before promotion. FE Engage for example has benefits promoting early because you can take advantage of better growth rates. Now in UO it doesn't matter when you promote (after its unlocked) and its just gonna be who are gonna promote first since it depends on your Honor currency.
early promote is always better people just think its not
@@JeffPenaify People think it's not because gamers have a tendency to min-max everything. How do you min-max a Fire Emblem character when you don't have infinite levels before Three Houses? Level a unit to 20, promote, level to 20 again, reset level with Second Seal if possible.
That way you get the maximum amount of level ups before they promote. Promoted units gain EXP slower and if you do not have Second Seals to mitigate it, you have less level ups to roll those growths with if you promote early.
In all honesty, you probably *are* making the mid-game unnecessarily harder on yourself by saving all your promotions for a bunch of Level 20's, but gamer brains want that 20/20 stat sheet.
When it comes to a specific game like Three Houses, you absolutely are wasting your time because you keep your level when promoting and in fact gain catch-up stats as a result of unlocking better classes. And you're REALLY wasting your time in Echoes because you really really need those promotions sooner rather than later, not to mention despite being an older style of FE, you get multiple promotions in a run, so this is only an issue for games where units only get a single promotion period. Every other game that dodges single promotion rules or limitations, you don't need to be full OCD on level capped promotions.
...Honestly I think it's worse for us overseas people because we *started* with 20/20 capped games.
@@UltimaKeyMaster yeah but realistically the big stat boosts and improved growths of a promotion make playing the waiting game diminished returns and unnecessary stress. Your character will get better stats early on and have better growth rates when you promote it, so not only will you have a nasty endgame unit, you will have a more reliable unit midgame. It depends on character and luck of the roll but id say on average youre better off promoting soon as you can, most times whatever stats youd build waiting another 10 levels will be mediocre, and youre trying to baby the character the whole time, the real growths and stat boosts happen on promotion
No possibility of being RNG screwed is great!!!
That's good
I was freaking out a bit when I saw only getting 1 stat up in my early levels
Stat sets remind me of what Symphony of war does with its affinity’s that boost certain , where if you change an affinity half way through the game all their stats will update.
Yeah thinking about it, works exactly the same way. They both have stat boosters too, just Symphony Of War lets you go ham with them where Unicorn Overlord has limits on those stat boosters too.
Thank you so much for making this. I kind of prefer this system, as it removes the RNG with Unit growth and you can better focus on the tools you have instead of worrying with the looming threat of poor Level Up's.
No more having to reload previous saves because of a bad level up.
I really liked the way they standardized the growths by type since it alows for unique units to be weird or take advantage of different equipment then usual to capitalize on what they do have while generics provide a nearly free path to pure combat efficiency for min maxing. Like its so cool to think that a unique character could just be worse by default compared to a faceless generic because the growth combo they have in some way reflects their character.
I think now I get why refusing to recruit some units give you gear you can give to your customized hired unit!
So basically it’s cool lex sucks cuz he’s a hothead when fighters can actually be pretty good with evade tanks
I hope there's something we can do with Lex to make him better though since I like his character
@@dizzyheads there’s an item called an idealist mirror that allows you to change your appearance and stat set which even works on the actual characters.
@@dizzyheads Lex is pretty good with the right setup, along with the right members added to his unit. There's a lot of synergy options, which is nice.
It’s good for balance because they have a definite “this is the lowest initiative character” and can look at all possible buffs to initiative to find how far it can go. I mean think of it for any stat, but it is just a really good way to do it. Also it pushes stats into a certain category: gear. We now think about our limited pieces of gear and where they should go. Like the recruits gear at the start of the game also has, in addition to the xp boost, a bonus to attack because a level 1 character would actually need that. They can design from the bottom without worrying about unexpected growths that move characters into unexpected stat potentials due to rng. If you want to max out Ochlys’s initiative it can only get so high.
Protip: if you want 2 gryphon knights with one to sweep and the other to dodge tank, name the attacker/offensive one with the letters you want Amanda/Ophelia and the defensive/tank Diana/Trisha. Much faster than looking up stats if you have clear roles for the same units.
Or color code them...
Thats actually a really great idea
Thx
I think it's part of the customization that makes this game great-- seems like the devs didn't want to lock us into characters or classes, and we can even change how they grow, their tactics, appearance, etc. Josef is the only one and we all know he's OP to help with leveling the mercs you hire.
I love a good level cap system 😊
This is a huge relief for me as I'm the type of person to reset levels to turn "bad" growth units into good ones.
IMO Growth Rate is just fine as a term. Rate doesn't have to imply RNG, something that grows at a specific predetermined rate is still a growth rate.
While you’re right that rate doesn’t have to imply RNG, I think the issue is that players familiar with the genre understandably associate the term with RNG. Therefore, to lessen confusion I’m all for calling them something else.
@@DietersYT I mean the term fixed growths has been used on FE since there are options in some games to have growths not be random and just fixed based on their growth rates. I'd argue calling them something different is pointless where a term for them has already existed for decades.
@@twigz3214 I’m just going off what I think most players will (incorrectly) assume when they hear “growth rates”. We can agree to disagree, no biggie.
@@DietersYT I think it would cause more confusion to call them something else than the game does, if others disagree and the community dubs them something else eventually to distinguish them fair enough though.
@@twigz3214 what do you mean “than the game does”? Are they called growths in-game? I don’t see them named anywhere.
If they are named in-game, I think we should use whatever that is.
Something I noticed about exp is that it seems like if you aren’t in the red you always gain the same amount of exp, modified by any exp boosting skills. However lower levels require less exp per level, meaning that you will still level faster.
So much better than random growth.
Oh, weird. I didn't see that one coming! That's one way to keep characters from getting stat screwed, I suppose.
the biggest perk to set stats is that from a developers standpoint, it's much easy to balance enemies for. i can't imagine the headache involved to balance for RNG Screwed armies.
I'm happy to find this out. Stats being fixed in most tactics games would hurt replayablility, but UO has so many characters, routes through the game and possible unit combos that it doesn't have to worry about that. Instead, they can take advantage of the satisfying consistency of knowing what stats you'll get with little downside.
I like how you don't feel the need to sacrifice natural gameplay to some bs growth optimization like in all the FE games and FFT. You stay in a class for gameplay reason, not because it gives you better growth.
I liked pretty much everything about the demo. I liked the leveling system. To me it means you will always be able to beat every scenario you just might have to change up your strategy. The only thing I didn't like was that you couldn't name the mercenaries. Other than that I cant wait to play more
I really like this decision. I hate getting RNG screwed with stats when I play SRPGs. For a game where you are building a squad which effectively acts as a single unit I think more focus on equipment loadouts and tactics offers enough diversity with stat boosters to round out a build or favorite character.
The fact that it removes RNG in level ups is a huge blessing imo.
I imagine that I'm an outlier, since I know very little about Fire Emblem and its mechanics (but I'm not so blind that I cannot grasp the comparisons made), but I kinda realized halfway through the game that they're not "Growths". They're more accurately described as "Talents", "Focuses", or to borrow a term from the older Fallout games, they're "Tagged" stats. Ultimately, they give an upfront, one-time stat change independent of level and class.
I don't see any flaw with the system UO employs here, as it means the player has a teeny tiny bit of influence on bumping a given character's stats a certain way if hiring or using the mirror. This makes min-maxers happy, and for other players it encourages them to experiment with their new hires' stats and pay more attention to how battles play out. Eventually I concluded that for my playthrough, I'm not solely dependent on having that one extra stat point here or there, so I worried less about new hires' growths and more about where best to utilize their class. And it turns out that not worrying about it doesn't result in being penalized later. I dread to think how much I'd come to hate playing a system where I'd be 'expected' to save scum until my units gets an 'optimal' level up.
Remarcable review. They really made an effort to put in the players hands the choice of customization and playstyle. It's much more open to changes an I like.
Yea, i started the game and replayed the beginning and this is about what my guess was when reloading a few times and attempting a restart to see if stats would upgrade differently. But i had no idea about the shop...
After the psychic torment of several FE games where my lord has had the most gimped and cursed growths imaginable I'm fully in support of entirely deterministic stats.
I think this is a good thing. At first I wasn't sure but thinking it over, the less RNG the more the game can properly set the difficulty. In Fire Emblem you get a few RNG blessed units and it can really make the game too easy at times. Here you are level capped (effectively) and the units will always have the expected stats. Sure maybe players find cheese with different unit combos but it should help with difficulty balancing. Really excited to check this game out on release!
I am loving your content. Keep up the good work!
Edit- apparently I should just finish the video first bc you covered what I said, and put it better 🤣
This game has generic *character creation* on top of the named units AND neither are gimped but more so stand out for roleplay purposes?
Man, I'm used to FFT being like "here's a bunch of units and your generics have a standard male/female appearance" but letting EVERY GENERIC have at least a Robin level of customization is insane to me. It'll actually feel like MY army.
As a complete newcomer to strategy RPG’s, this is great. I can focus on in game strategy and not have to think about leveling timing and other stuff that I just find takes away from my enjoyment personally.
Just started the game today! Got so many level ups where it was just HP, made me want to cry.
Random growth rates have always been the shittiest thing I’ve ever seen. No one wants to see a low roll ever.
Yes i have always been a proponent of fixed growths in Fire emblem, playing an FE game with fixed growths has always felt better then the random growth ones and to be honest FE doesn't need random growths. The variation you get from just simply what class you pick for a unit and how long you keep them in that class before switching plus the combination of skills you choose for them is enough to make them feel special and the fact that they already have personal growth rates means random growth just simply aren't needed for the game to be fun.
Thanks for explaining. It’d be interesting if they can add FE-style growths as a New Game + option (like perma death)
I am personally do not mind having no randomness. This might be actually downer for Hardcore FE fans who will juice this game for next 20 years, but for person who likely to play once or maybe twice, resetting because you got bad roll on growth is daunting task.
Basically "growths" are natures. They are growths, just not the same way Tactical RPGs use that term. Its the same kind of growth in Pokemon terms haha
I take it you confirmed this with Lex, Colm, and a generic fighter or some similar situation? I remember people saying they were getting different stats on their initial Alain level up. I guess that was just a misconception.
Yup, you can see that in the video. I compare Lex and colm, and then Lex and a generic, all at the same level. They all have the exact same stats
@@TitaniumLegman and here I am, walking around listening without watching. Lol
@@Leif3GHP totally understandable, I do the same thing all the time. 🤣
I just call it “growth type” because that's what the game calls it.
There's nothing inherently “random” implied by the word “growth,” it just means the unit is, well, *growing*, which they are. It's the “rates” part which, well, technically doesn't imply randomness either, but is more associated with it.
I think the restriction on exp gain after 3 levels above the recommended is a very smart move because it prevents you from becoming a God mid or early game, you still get some exp and at the same time you have somewhat of a challenge when completing missions. To me that is something I always wanted.
This analysis brings me great relief!
Not that stat growths need to go away forever but I'm incredibly pleased that Vanillaware came up with a new way of doing things and I believe this is actually a GREAT system.
Is this really much different then fixed growths in FE though? The only real difference I see is that every character is like an avatar unit now with 2 boon modifier's you can customize. I agree it's a great system but i don't think it's anything new that Vanillaware came up with, just them simply recognizing an already great way of doing things. The color customizing of units is a nice touch though
@@skywing217The color custom is such a Vanillaware classic. Their only game on the PSP I believe also features the same system (although it's a tile-based adventure game locked behind a timed campaign because the main focus is the Army mechanic)
I wonder if the growth rates mean a set stat limit based on the letter. An “S” rank in HP at level 20 would be at 100 while an “E” rank would be at 60.
Using stat boosting items the “S” rank HP allows you to cap at 150 while the “E” rank gets you to 90.
This also can be even more complex as certain job classes no matter what you set your growth types to will not achieve an “S” in certain categories.
Really love this system ironically gives complete freedom to role play allowing players to choose which units(named or not) to accompany you during the story
I’m thinking that crit/ evasion will always be terrific I’m interested in the initiative stat and how that plays out.
I'm playing expert. I just take the cast and roll through the maps (a lot have been pretty small). Bosses put up a bit of a fight that's about it. While this has the perks of being simple it also has the drawbacks of being simple. I will very very likely just one and done and forget this. When it comes to rng leveling up you can usually just save scum so it's fairly w/e.
I do prefer the random growths in FE, it makes them risky and yet fun at the same time. However, I also like using my favorites, which Unicorn Overlord lets me do without having to worry about them being bad.
It works for the game its in! Fire Emblem's works because it makes units feel different to each other. Using Engage and the three Axe Fighters in it, Boucheron, Panette and "Lady" Annie, their growths if you keep them in their expected class reflect their character and make them different to each other. Boucheron benefiting by fitting the Axe Fighter Archetype which is he's relying on his Axes Might for the damage and his strengths of High HP and BLD mean he'll rarely be slowed by his axes and can survive longer then Panette and Anna. But Panette can better strengthen the Axes Might with her high Strength stat and better criticsl rate increase especially the closer to death she gets due to her personal skill, but she's pretty fragile and her bld is lower. Anna is the most fragile and all her axes slow her. However if you make it to level 10 you can make her a Warrior or just second seal her, as a warrior she keeps her able to join battles with her bow and can use the radiant bow and longbow to devestate. Or make her a sage to take advantage of her magic, axe mage knight, or sniper/bow knight, your choice! Changing classes works in FE do to the scope of its systems.
The fun I love with Fire Emblem is these differences and the fact I never know how a run will go. Hell my 5th run of Engage back in 2023 March, My Swordmaster Lapis Strength caught up to her SpD despite her speed growth being high because she was getting stat ups to strength for some reason more then Speed. Hell my last run in Three Houses, Ingrid was the same and I kep her as a Pegasus Knight/Falcon Knight.
Strategy Games like Unicorn Overlord are best left to Fixed Growths because their longer then a Fire Emblem game. Same with Tactics ogre cause the creators of Overlord did their research. Do look back at Ogre Battle and OB64😅 it was sometimes a nightmare especially your first run with a guide and still learning to grow your army because of alot of "not well explained factors" and thank god UO didn't bring back much of the busy work (even if I love March of the black queen and 64, I will never forget my first run of 64 where it took awhile to get a wizard and that wizard was mediocre because he was previously A FUCKING WARRIOR😅 yeah he was the only male I had that got anywhere near the stat requirements! I was lucky to beat the game with my only great units being the unique characters and lucky "recruitments/poaching" my second runs were easier only cause I knew what to do and even then busy work got annoying and I had to keep looking at the guide to remember some things! Happy they took Fire Emblems approach to its systems, which was make them simpler. I stay in the game and the only time I pause in UO is when I'm thinking my next moves....or picking the switch up to take ut to the bathroom 😂)
Predetermined growths will likely be bad for replayability purposes, but fine for the first playthrough
It has its pros and cons, personally I prefer the RNG leveling up. It's a bit more exciting and emotional getting a REALLY good level up for a character you really like and annoying when there is a bad one. It also makes things fresh for repeated playthroughs, the character in your last playthrough that was wrecking house is getting middling results this time, "Guess you have to switch it up and try someone else".
However a fixed set like in UO also provides for a more stable and uniform experience. A bit duller but also not likely to completely ruin your playthrough and soft lock out the characters that the game feels are important.
I prefer dynamic growths, myself. I think it adds an element of uniqueness to each character that's scantly found in UO. The game's given me a serious lack of cause to use the prebuild units rather than making my own. Seeing rapport conversations is the only reason I can think of to use Lex, Chloe, etc. over a superior mercenary of the same class. You could make a decent counterargument by bringing up resource scarcity, but with the extra missions that the shaman introduces where you can grind for experience to catch your mercenaries up to the prebuilt units and earn back the honors you spent recruiting them, that argument largely becomes invalid. Dynamic growths and stuff like personal skills would fix this for me, I think. Voiced rapport conversations would also help to encourage me. Making custom mercenaries is really fun and all, but it needs to be balanced out a bit, as pretty much everyone except for Alain and Joseph are replaceable at present.
I don't really see why any of that is a problem or why it needs to be "balanced out." It's very clear they intended the incentive to use uniques IS the rapport system both narratively and the stat boosts. If you're someone who likes unique characters, use them. I don't see why they need to be statistically better than generics. It's not the game's fault if your need to power game and optimize leads you to missing out on using the unique characters, nor does it have an obligation to make them optimal. It's just as valid for someone to say they hate the fact uniques are always better because they're prefer to use generics in games like this. Which people IN this comment section have said they're grateful for.
@@williampounds5191 Just to be clear, since I think you misunderstand me, I like being able to hire and customize generics and I hated how in Fire Emblem Fates the generic hires were useless compared to the uniques. In a sense, UO is an overcorrection of what was wrong in Fates. The characters provided through the story don't provide enough uniqueness to justify their existence. And if the generics come with the benefit of being tuned specifically by the player to fulfill a role perfectly, then I think giving unique characters a minor skill like "+2 damage against hoplites" would be a decent way to balance things, because as is, uniques are always worse than generics. Again, I like generics, and I like doing crazy stuff like making Flayn from FE Three Houses into a barbarian. I'm not a power gamer. I just want something more than unvoiced rapport convos to give me a reason to use the uniques, because as is, I feel there's MORE incentive to use generics as you can name them, give them special designs, voices, and stat growths. What do uniques offer to counter that? Not much...I mean, generics get rapport and stat bonuses too if you haven't noticed. The only thing they miss out on are the conversations, and who really cares about that when they aren't voiced?
With all that said, I think Vanillaware did a good job overall. I've just noticed myself benching the majority of unique units in the game and while I feel bad about it, I don't see any good reason to stop since the uniques just aren't worth bothering with when I can get a much better generic for just a few honor points. Dynamic growths could do a little bit to change this, as any fire emblem vet would know the feeling of having an unexpected unit get a slew of lucky level ups, becoming your MVP of the run, and earning a place in your heart.
@@williampounds5191 I'd argue it is the game's fault for giving some characters just bad growths. Also generics still get the stat boost from rapport, all units do even if they don't have conversations with one another and it can be checked on the 3rd tab of the unit info screen in any squad. You can swap some growths of your unique characters though with a item you get, we only know of 2 so far though so we'll see how many there are. I think making them balanced is the best solution, some of the growth choices for characters are great like with Aubin's but some like Chloe's and Selvie's feel like they actively tried to make them bad for the character. Being able to change them later I think fixes most of the issues if we see the item on a regular basis though.
Stat Templates as opposed to growth rates for me. It just makes more sense when I think of each class having their own template that is static and not random.
I discovered the aux battles. I have destroyed this game's economy and everyone is level 20 (including every single generic). Levelling is no issue because of Treatises that can farmed from aux battles where you can just send a flying unit (Ochlys) to assassinate the enemy command post. And in turn you gain renown and honor and I maxed all that out. Plus due to taverns you no longer need to farm rapport. Because Aux battles gives you an immense amount of money over a long period of farming.
I'm very grateful for the game for these features. However now that you've given me the option to steamroll the game. I will just straight up do that. If I had known this was an option from the start I would have played in a much harder difficulty to offset my cheesing. Plus given that battles are not as limited as I was first impressed upon, I don't feel like the rapports are earned as the lady you marry is suppose to be the lady Alain has fought together with and gained max rapport. But if I can just farm that with taverns... the earning your bride's affections aspect feels very superficial (literally took a girl to a bar and wined and dined her until she liked me for throwing money at her).
Quality of life can ruin the perceived authentic experience.
A welcome change. I wouldn't want this system to be in every game, but it will make UO a fresh experience.
Now I don't need to worry about not using a unique character until I can use a mirror to get the "optimal" stats I want.
the randomness was always so annoying if i always know how a type of soldier will be set up i don't need to worry about the "meta" i can just level characters up when and where i get em.
I think the point of making stat sets rather then growths is to put a higher emphasis on using the tactics systems rather then RNGblessed/RNGscrew players,
Can we confirm now that the official game is out that growths indeed work this way? As you have more properly renamed them, “growths” are really Stat Sets?
I agree with having more controlled vsriables in SRPGs. You look at a game like FE 3 Houses, the devs had zero idea what the average playthrough would look like due to all the thousands of variables they give you and as a result the difficulty balancing suffered. Compare this to UO or FE Engage where the variables are heavily reduced and the games feel incredibly balancedin a satisfying way
I love this.
Always hated the fact that some units in FE are simply useless compared to other ones. And even then you can either be super lucky and gain good level ups or quite the opposite and missing out on DPS-focused stats the past 5 levels and now you are stuck in limbo with that unit.
The way it is in UO you can definitely pick any unit that you like in whatever fashion you want and potentially adjust stats or even looks. This alone provides enough replayability.
Definitely beats the "I steamroll with Bob until chapter X because lol broken."
Fire Emblem Engage actually uses this standarized growth system, with the traditional growth rates system unlockable upon finishing the game for the first time. Both are valid ways to go around it, I think the standard system is great for a first run, while the more random one makes replaying the game more fun. There's a lot of stuff going on in UO so random level ups might not be that interesting to play with however.
It's mainly the team dynamic that would make random growths a poor fit for this game. If one member of a party isn't doing the job they are suppose to be good at then it tears down everyone in that squad. The team comps are too fine tuned and made up of too many moving parts for that level of variance to work in this game. Also it would be too easy to create many misconceptions about what teams do and don't work simply because one member of the party performed too differently than the average for their class.
The system is somehow close to Pokémon.
In Pokémon you have a nature that boosts one stat by 10% at the cost of -10% in another. Then you have IV score for each stat that determines how much of any given stat you will get, exactly like stat growth operate except you get a lot more combination possible.
And EV in Pokémon are essentially how stat boosters work except once again you can have a lot more and you can't have more than a fix number total instead of having it per stat like in unicorn (actually in the first generations it used to work like in unicorn).
Granted the values from both games are quite different but fundamentally it's working the exact same. Two Pokémon with the same equivalent of stat growth and stat boosters will always have the same stats no matter what, just like units of the same class will in unicorn.
I guess it will reduce the grind and rng elements, but it also removes a lot of player choice. I'm surprised that even story characters are not unique to any way in battle. It means we will hire a merc at start of the game and we will never ever change them, because everyone is the same
I seem to be in the monitory, but I don’t like set stat growth. Why take any character over another then? I like some degree of randomness, using a less than optimal character because I simply like him or her. This is going to really make it a min maxers fever dream. I’ll do my best to avoid it but there will no doubt be people finding the most optimal broken setups within days of release.
Additionally why does the game feature a stat increase when leveling up? Is that just to give the illusion of random stat increase? It totally makes it pointless to show that then. I dunno, I’m old school and I like a bit more mystery to my strategy rpgs
Why take any character over another then? Because even with fixed growths Anna in engage still gets magic level ups 5 out of 10 level ups as a freaking warrior for gods sake and no one in the game can every take that fact away from her or out perform because it's a unique trait exclusive to her because no one else has a 50 magic growth rate when serving as a warrior. It makes Anna as a warrior special compared to all the other potential warriors you could use because she is the best shining bow user because of this and i enjoy that unique aspect to her as a character,
So why use any other warriors? Because Alcryst as a warrior can use the silver bow because his bow proficiency bumps him up to B rank his personal skill is also kick ass and entirely unique to him. Boucheron on the other hand can only use C rank bows but his insane build and speed growth makes him one of the best axe units for doubling with heavy axes. These characters don't need random growths to stand out because they already have unique traits that make them stand out from everyone else. All it takes is for people to move away from the meta gaming to realize all the unique things these characters can do and find fun new ways to use them even if it may not be optimal its cool as shit and surprising effective at times none the less.
Now why use Lex over a generic fighter in this game? No idea, but i've only played a small bit of this game and the point still stands you don't need random level ups to make characters stand out and i have a feeling the the unique aspect of characters in this game will be in their rapport conversations and the cool equipment you give them. Their growth modifiers probably make them feel a bit special too to a lesser extent
This isn't even that unordinary. Pokemon, if you set aside EVs and IVs, has basically this exactly. Two Pikachu with the same level will always have the same stats, aside from their nature which will give +10% to a stat and -10% to a stat. In more recent games you can even change their nature and with works just like changing growth types with the idealists handmirror in this game.
What bothers me is that unique characters almost always have really bad stat growth combinations for their classes I always prefer my non unique characters in comparison because their stats are what they need them to be. Hopefully the mirror is very easy to come across past the first area. For instance I almost always put attack and initiative on high damage classes helping me getting first hit on same level enemies way more often.
It's the one thing that I find a bit annoying, I think they chose the growth for the unique characters based on how the character is written and not on stats that make sense for the class.
I MUCH prefer set level up stats. I don’t really get why people would think this would use random level up when 99% of games have set level up stats….
This actually makes generics slightly better than unique combatants because you can choose their growth rates at the time you make them vs. paying 30k to do it, and so far that's extremely limited to only being able to do this one time, for one character... obviously unique non-mercenary classes are a different case, but that also means they should get priority for mirrors
Well there is still the rapport system to contend with. Also unique characters could verily easily have growth rates that are still good for a role that class can be used for on top of that.
I prefer "stat stets" to semi-random growth rate %s personally.
I will prefer this. It will be a nice change :)
i prefer this typeof game. i feel like i never play wrong
So in D&D terms, this is wholly the difference between Rolling for stats vs Standard Array. Rolling is more varied and fun (unless you roll like shit), while Standard Array makes for a more balanced experience. Both have pros and cons, and neither are clearly better than the other.
I guess UO is going for balance in this regard, and I don’t think that’s a bad decision at all.
That's a good way to look at it yeah.
Untill you roll 3 , 5 times in roll and u will forever prefer 1 over the other just saying.
I like how the exp gain doesnt seem to be very effected by the difficulty. Im not as fond of the 100% consistent stat.
This is random but I took Friday off for extra time with this game 😆
I would argue that it make balancing much easier.
This is good new, I actually hate random stats growth from old jrpg.
I wonder how this works then when it feels like characters like Alain and Lex seem to always get magic on level ups on my first run despite not adjusting their growths. I know Alain for me had like equal magic and str when I was playing and I've no idea if that's working as intended or not.
So fixed growths and essentially natures from pokemon. Got it.
I never liked random growths.
Any bad level up feels terrible, while a lucky streak only makes the game more imbalanced. Really a no win scenario.
And in games with class changes, the whole concept of growth instead of sets tends to annoy me anyway. For instance, the Engage Anna situation frustrate me to no end. Gaining a level as a lv10 fighter feels bad when you plan to second seal her into a caster.
Werewolf squad where y'all at!?
have you heard of War of Genisis Remants of Grey?
Random stat gains are needed in Fire Emblem because the gameplay mechanics are quite simple. UO probably went with set stats because the gameplay is complicated enough as is. If you want variety on a replay, just build different teams and make them work.
I disagree that random stat gains are needed for fire emblem; intelligent systems could easily adopt the fixed growth formula for all future FE entries they just won't because they are too stuck in their ways and fear moving away from their roots despite how much this one change would improve their games for the better. I would argue that all FE games since FE Awakening have had enough layers of complexity to warrant the removal of fixed growths entirely. If you want replay ability just make each unit a different class this time or pair Olivia with Libra this time to give Inigo access to sage and thus different skills and therefore a unique combination of skills this time. And based on how bad lunatic was balanced in awakening that game needed fixed growths to be balanced.
I've spent hours planning out mother father pairings for children in awakening just for the sake of trying new builds. Just wish the first few chapters weren't such a bitch on lunatic in awakening.
@@skywing217 I suppose you have a point. Random Growths were more important in the GBA days where the combat was so bare bones.
@@AquilaGuardTrue things like skill emblem, reclassing, personal spell lists, and skills locked behind engage ring accessibility have really changed the landscape in recent FE game design they certainly have come up with a lot of interesting ideas over the years.
If engage made me pay for fixed growths. I’d have done it
What about "ability (or abilities) array", that keeps the alliteration
Main issue with that is it could confuse people when we're talking about abilities we get from weapons and such.
So, i dont really have too much of a problem with fixed growth, but is there really no difference between unique characters and mercenaries? If so, that's kind of disappointing. Is there any reason to use the unique characters then?
deterministic levels ought to be nice for Speedrunners
Thought i'd share as well my top 2 stats for each character based on how i think each should be optimized (1st mentioned being main prio):
1. alain-def and guard
2. travis-eva and init
3. josef-phys and crit
4. aubin-phys and init
5. clive-phys and crit
6. yahna-mag and init
7. auch-mag and init
8. sharon- eva and mag
9. rolf-phys and init
10. mordon-phys and init
11. bruno-phys and init
12. berenice-eva and phys
13. hodrick-def and guard
14- chloe-phys and init
15, selvie-eva and init
16. lex-def and guard
People complaining that "it's too easy"? Man, I wish we had that in Japan😅
People absolutely dunked on TO Reborn cuz you couldn't simply walk up and punch enemies to death. Well, you could, but that would be a nightmarish experience as you keep getting incapacitated units. And you couldn't overlevel units to steamroll. So. They all shouted "What a trash game! All you can do is pray for rng! Devs added random cards which you must pick up before the enemy! There are no tactics now!"
And those are the exact type of fake fans I can't stand.
@@TitaniumLegman Haha, I wouldn't call them fake per se. Just delusional. They can't distinguish between their own personal preferences and objective reality.
I understand where they're coming from. I got similar issues with FE games. If it doesn't resemble Genealogy of the Holy War, then it's a no go for me. But. I don't go around claiming that the "this just ain't it" FE games are somehow objectively bad. They don't match what I want, but that got nothing to do with objective quality of the game.
As for Reborn... Oh god... Long time fans of the original, people who hated the psp version were the loudest. They were so used to stats being everything and levels actually having a huge impact, that they automatically assumed the same being true in the remakes.
Boss is 2 levels higher? So strong.
They start with 4 buff cards? What a cheap way to up the difficulty.
Items? Never heard of anything apart from healing ones.
Skills? What's that?
UO seems to be circumventing all of that. They do have difficulty settings. The union level you mentioned? Not a problem here, cuz you can still grind the levels. People would go to unimaginable lengths just to avoid thinking. I heard of a player in Reborn who got stuck on Ch.2 duel with Leonar, so what did he do? Think of a plan? Use skills? Use items? No. He went into the woods to hunt dragons, sell them and boost Denim's stats. Yeah. Dozens, hundredth of hours spent on essentially meaningless grind.
Do assist units gain xp as well? As in, can I make a dedicated assist unit (only archers, mages or clerics) and can it still level up by only assisting?
You do gain xp on assist, but it will lag behind proper combat xp.
I vastly prefer it this way.
No more resetting because of bad rng.
I was just wondering about this because I noticed that I had gotten really lackluster level ups like just a single point of hp on a non-tank character.
I think this system works well for the game. I'm just personally disappointed. This means I can't deathball using the most meme character for my own entertainment because growths are so constricted. A lot of my enjoyment in games in TRPG's is hugely tied to finding the one character I love, finding a hilarious build and rocking it the whole game. An example of this is Mist from Fire Emblem PoR as well as RD. I loved the idea of a feeble little girl beating up a huge army by herself with a stick of a sword just by investing time into her for her growths. However, I do admit that many people default to meta strategies which can make it seem like enjoyment "plateau's" earlier in the game.
I've only played the demo once, just got it, and i really am liking GoGetter as my favorite Growth so far. But need to play a few more times, try out some more unit mixes etc. This forst play through i tried to p much have one of every class XD just to try them all out.
I much prefer fixed growth rates to randomized. That's part of the reason that Path of Radiance is my favorite Fire Emblem.
im actually notice it when i hire mercs, this games is too good wee need a pc ver
With as much hate as Reborn got from randos about the Union Level, it's funny that Triangle Strategy and Unicorn Overlord both effectively have a Union Level system, they just make you gain 1exp when you fight someone at your level, and then they get none of the complaints.
I do think you convinced me less than Unicorn Overload is weird and more that Fire Emblem is super weird, though. That said, the randomization of stat gains is something that could be extremely frustrating in a game like Ogre Battle 64 where your class decided the stat gain ranges, so you wanted to evolve/reclass quickly... but the new class (or monster evolution) required certain stats to make the leap.
I guess I'm saying that we all had a baby flood dragon who kept getting the bare minimum MIND increase per level and thus could just never evolve into her final ultimate dragon form. Though that game tossed stat items your way quite often, and I suspect they did that specifically so you could 'nudge' a character's stats just high enough to turn your divine knights into seraphim.
Really curious what customization options the mirror unlocks for Ochlys.
Aren't these just interchangeable "fixed growths"?
Sorta, but without any personal growths it makes characters of the same class even more homogenous.
“Growth” implies that it’s your character getting that stat, which they kinda do… as long as you don’t ever change their stat sets. The fact that changing a character’s stat set swaps their stats around as if they had always been of the other type is what makes the word “growth” weird to use here. With that said, it’s the standard terminology for the genre so it’ll probably stick around regardless.
removing RNG from something makes it more predictable, I think that's a good thing here.
I got my switch and I am ready to go :D
I hate the set "growths" personally. And I really hate the unique characters are not special. Still pumped for the game though.
The stat growth system in fire emblem series really deterred me from playing them. I prefer much simpler, predetermined stat growths like Unicorn Overlord apparently has so im not stressing over that stuff.
its 100% better this way. there is NO PLACE for rng when building a character. imagine you level your character in dark souls and its a 50/50 chance to level either your strength or dex, hell nah bro. its absolutely better to keep stat growths controlled and straightforward.
My only complaint is that the generics are as good as the main Characters
So old school pokemon iv checker like
you wrong my man in both my 2 playthrough of the demo the stats of alian differ although is in the same level
So growths + class = stats?
Yessir.
So the Growth Types are what determined the characters overall growths that are set no matter what to what character in the same Class if i follow it right?
That is correct
@@TitaniumLegman Than perhaps the Letters next to the stat numbers are the maximum stats what said character can reach, by that i mean the S is the highest stat that can be reached and the F is the lowest stat that would be maxed, granted i can be wrong about it
So this would mean unique character are only stronger than generic when paired with friends? (via rapport system)
Generics seem to gain rapport as well, although I haven't had the chance to experiment with it myself yet.
@TitaniumLegman then I wonder what benefit the unique characters have since executing/sending away gives item rewards.
@@michaelgorski4221 some uniques like Auch get you more items overall if you keep them around tho, so it might be more a case of short term vs long term gain.
I think the only benefit for unique characters is that you get 2 honors when you watch a rapport conversation, you don't get any if they don't have a conversation but you still get the same stat boosts. I guess the other benefit of Unique's is it not costing honors to recruit them and some have questionable growths but others still have good ones for their role.