This! I think this is the answer for 90% of the endless complaining (i. e. whining) that is all too prevalent in PS2. Oh ... That and it's ALL Wrel's fault!
We DO find SMG infils just as much and even more of a problem than CQC bolters, which, as you say takes skill and is rare. I like the idea of a new class, but I don't think that's the treatment infil needs - I've said it for years and my opinion hasn't changed, what infil needs is to not be able to shoot for about 500ms longer after they uncloak than currently. In a game with favor-the-shooter netcode it is absolutely bonkers for it to be designed the way it currently is, where depending on ping, you can be dead on their screen (and so in reality) before you can realistically even see them on your screen. buff other stuff if you need to compensate, but that is the part that needs changed if the class is to be less toxic to the game.
It depends on who you ask. The thing about the 'great infil debate' is that not everyone agrees. Some people only hate cqc bolters; others hate all snipers; some hate semi-autos more than the snipers; some hate stalkers, others don't hate stalkers; some hate smg infils, others don't. Regardless, if infils are to be changed; there is an option that would solve 90% of people's complaints against infils. Make the cloaking ability a gadget that must be held. If you go from holding the gadget to holding a weapon; you automatically decloak before you finish switching. You could even give the gadget longer de-equip times. This would delegate the cloak for being used for actual _infiltration_ and getting to advantageous locations without being scene, rather than ambushing someone immediately from decloak.
@@josephburchanowski4636 to me, this seems like the same suggestion i made - though possibly more extreme depending on how long an infil must be visible before they can shoot in your schema. the main argument is certainly the same - it's the time delay between uncloaking and shooting that is the problem.
@@senturian There are a few reasons I prefer the gadget approach. One of the reasons deals with one of the bugs regarding netcode; sometimes after decloaking you can't actually shoot for bit occasionally when the servers are having trouble; so a 500ms delay added on top of the occasional bug would make infils unsure of when they'll be able to shoot. Swapping from the gadget to a weapon meanwhile shows through animations when you'll be able to shoot. The second reason is that the gadget with a long de-equip time as a hard nerf can be combined with cloak duration and recharging buffs for a decent 'rework'. Infils that use cloaks for actual infiltration or getting to advantageous locations would benefit from the rework; while infils that use cloak in more infuriating ways would be nerfed.
I think the main issue isn't about them being overpowered... They're just really annoying to fight against, to the point where I feel they tend to cause more pain than not.
One thing I will say it is that the infil is a heavy adjustment for a new player. Learning to see a cloaked infil and adjusting for how PS2 netcode affects sniping and how to avoid it takes time. When you adjust, it is hardly noticeable, especially when in a group and a medic easily revives you when you are killed, but I do remember the learning curve and I did not enjoy it at all back then.
To me, Planetside was nerfing everything for the past four years. You buy something, because it's a great weapon, and then it gets downgraded, with no refund. Same goes with investing in a particular class. People use their time, thus certs, to improve it, and then developers decide : "Nah, too OP, get f... get nerfed". If I recall correctly, NC has a knife that can switch working regime, and one of the could damage vehicles. Not anymore ! 1000 certs, if I'm correct with the price, are being wasted. I think the same goes for the antimaterial riffles, but I didn't follow all the updates. However, classes, though... Let's make vehicles unrepairable from the inside, because... the repair tool can recognize when you are inside or outside a vehicle. Let's nerf maxes, so they can't be revived. And then... Let's nerf constructions, so there's no exp for the vehicle spawn, thus discouraging players a bit to do the said construction, especially when the last update was about the constructions. Infiltrator "problem" was there for some time. Let's nerf that too ! I also heard ingame discussions that orbitals are way too overpowered. Let's remove them, because why not. In near future : light assault is too powerful with C4. And when you bring out the colossus, and a bunch of organized paratroopers drop on it from a valkyrie, and C4 it into Valhalla ? Let's nerf C4 or jumpjets, or why not both. Medics are too fast to revive people, or their reviving grenades revive too many. Nerf that please. Oh, and their shield recharging ability should be limited in capacity. The latter doesn't really hinder "farming" that much, so maybe let's keep it... Engineers repair vehicles too fast, and when they drive away, they repair the vehicles, thus vehicles are immortal. Pls, fix dat :( Also, when driving on the mines, they explode, and people die, pls nerf the mines. Heavy assault is okay : it's slow and easy to kill from a distance, but can we, please, nerf their rocket launchers, because they don't allow people to farm how they want while being in the air or ground vehicles. Some implants are way too overpowered when combined. Oh, if I recall correctly, spawn time from sunderers was downgraded too. Awesome !.. In a couple of years, if the game is still alive, you'll see, you'll be playing Battlefield, since everything that is original, would have been stripped out of the game.
You win the comment section. That last sentence pretty much wraps this up. One one side you have the sweaty tryhards that want to nerf every single thing in the game that's not part of the meta Heavy Assualt. And on the other end of the spectrum you have your filthy casuals who really just want to play Call of Duty with a bigger player count. Both mindsets are ruining the game and destroying everything unique about it.
While I agree with what you’ve said 90%, infiltrator is a weird case due to networking issues as others have mentioned in this comment section. But there is validity in adjusting certain gameplay loops. For instance, I find sweeperhud to be too widespread, it’s pretty much accepted that if you’re a tanker, you run that. The issue with this is when you consider I’ve thrown down hundreds of mines and barely gotten more than like 5 kills. Mines are essentially C4 that you have to manually shoot. That being said, tank mines are incredibly annoying when you DONT have sweeper hud. Now I don’t know the solution to this issue, but I know it feels bad essentially having a dead gadget slot if you decide to use it. A partial blame can also be put on the more tryhard playerbase, who tend to push Metas. Playing the “Meta” absolutely destroys any fun that could be had in making specialized kits, because you’re always going to be 3 steps behind the Metagamer. Then, when devs see 70% of the playerbase using a weapon, they’re gonna start looking at it for a nerf. Especially in a game like planetside where technically, everything is supposed to be a “side-grade.” However, the side-grade philosophy has definitely been thrown to the side since implants touched the game. All this to say is it’s extremely complicated and the blame isn’t entirely on the devs. Players kill the game too.
If infils are to be changed (and be kept a single class); there is an option that would solve 90% of people's complaints against infils. Make the cloaking ability a gadget that must be held. If you go from holding the gadget to holding a weapon; you automatically decloak before you finish switching. You could even give the gadget longer de-equip times. This would delegate the cloak for being used for actual _infiltration_ and getting to advantageous locations without being scene, rather than ambushing someone immediately from decloak.
I'm someone that is basically an "Infil hunter" so more often than not, I just happen to find the infils before they do their goofy shenanigans and end them when they're still shimmering around the map, so frankly the CQC guys don't really bother me that much, honestly the SMG ones and the traditional long range snipers are more consistently dangerous against me.
There's some sort of counterplay to most of what you listed. There isn't much counterplay to "Invisible person scopes you and runs away". It doesn't matter that there aren't a ton of people that main it, especially to a casual or new player it is toxic as fuuuuuuuuuuuuq.
Imo, the simplest thing for daybreak to do on the whole topic - make a no-shoot delay after decloaking longer for sniper rifles to account for clientside time.
The question should not be whether infiltrators are op in planet side 2 , it should be : are infiltrators a fun addition to the planetside 2? guess we all know the answer to that one.
Honestly ive never really had an issue with infils, I make sure to always be on the move and when I do get shot oh well. But if things should eb changed itd probably help to just not have the option for anything less than like an 8x scope on snipers that can one shot. Think that would force them to have to sit back at a further distance where it would then need more skill to consistently hit headshots
I personally had no problems with Infiltrators, the only problem I have is when there's 70 Infiltrators surrounding a base not allowing you to even leave the spawn rooms... that's it
There are so many ways 70 gamers can do that though. If they all have battle rifles on heavy. If just a few are in the air or tanks. The problem is the zerg, not the infiltrators.
I think the problem with infiltrators is that well-played [or at least ideally played] infiltrators don't get in fights. They just score 'cheap' kills. The actual 'fight' in Infiltrators is trying to spot them before they get into their ideal position, and forcing them to CQC instead of Blackhand or snipe would make it much higher risk instead of 'crouch walk to 25m, tap someone, vanish from existence once again' A dedicated intel class does seem like fun, though, especially since that means you could switch Infil gadgets and gear over to counter-intel and create a metagame between Recon and Infiltrators, and then you could create new ASP functions that allow Light Assaults to access some of Infiltrator's counter-intel tools, and allow Infiltrators to access some of Recon's intel-gaining tools [regaining access, technically] so they can serve as forward observers. As far as grenades go, a throwable or deployable [or both] jamming device which A: Prevents everyone in the radius from showing up on intel devices B: Obfuscates any intel device inside the radius of the jammer. Make the effect radial and visible on the map so that the origin of the jamming is obvious, much like the deployable recon device. Electronic smokescreens, basically. Supreme Commander, one of my favorite RTS games of all time made the distinction between Cloaking and Radar Stealth, which was units that visually hid themselves vs units that didn't show up on the minimap, and I thought that was a perfect thematic touch. Let's get some of that.
I think the biggest gripe about the infiltrator is the same among many video games where time to kill and alpha damage are extremely short specifically for that one specialization: There's no interplay. In normal combat you see, and you react. But with an infiltrator, generally you either see and die or you just die. Because the time to react in a human might not be enough time.
Infils my least played class after MAX...and even I DONT have an issue with them. Seems anything that requires a counter skill set, or makes a soldier think...people complain about. Hunting down, sneaking up on, killing an infil while cloaked who thinks he un detected are all very satisfying. Nothing like heading for an infil far away that panicks because he knows your tired of him and WILL find and kill him in the rocks or hills lol, its a challenge and one of the reasons I play. I also like the thought of a Reckon class being added.
As an infiltrator and Wraith Flash main with over 1,200 hours, I think that the issue lies entirely with high alpha damage weapons on a stealth centric class. The class already has SMGs, revolvers, scout rifles, and even melee. As well as the wraith flashguns, such as Kobalt and Fury. It does fine with these tools. The problem lies with the renegade flashgun and with sniper rifles. These weapons require far less commitment to secure kills than other options in the infiltrator’s arsenal, meaning that the user can just quickly back off if they make any mistakes. This is a problem. The infiltrator class is all about strategic positioning, and putting yourself into situations where your weapons can compete with the what enemies have. Bolters and renegades completely ignore this aspect of the class design, because they allow you to just instakill people and never actually yourself in danger. The #1 weakness of the infiltrator class is that it loses to every other class in a direct gunfight. But these weapons simply prevent the gunfight from ever happening, therefor eliminating the only weakness the infiltrator has.
Always good to see another Wraith Flash main. It really blows my mind that this is the ONLY game on the market where vehicle gameplay like this exists. A insane combination of stealth + high speed hit and run tactics. It will be a sad day if Planetside 2 shuts down and this gamestyle alone is lost forever.
Thank you for supporting the blackout Cyrious. I think there's plenty of options to handle infils, but maybe there's situations I haven't run across? 🤷♂️ Either way, can't wait to hear your take on it!
I don't think snipers are OP. However, if something MUST be done, I would recommend what I call "Accelerated Rounds" for all BASRs. Accelerated rounds are essentially micro-missiles that "launch" from the barrel of the rifle at a low muzzle velocity and then accelerate with a propellant over distance. What this looks like in-game would be an inversion of the "damage drop-off" chart, where the close range is the minimum damage and the long range is the maximum damage. If possible, actually include the acceleration in the physics of the projectile, so longer ranges have shorter and shorter travel times. As a trade-off (a give-back to the snipers this will affect) make all BASR shots have no projectile drop; it's a "rocket" accelerating in a straight line.
Devs made the mistake of making Hacking an after thought tool to Infil instead a primary/secondary key weapon as it was in PS1. As Primary LA SMG and Secondary CQC Bolter Infil i always see HA and Cloaker SMG as both similar giving extra advantage in any 1vs1 even if half competent. I've always thought SMG Cloakers bigger issue as less skill is required than nailing a single headshot, If Cloaker gets a headshot on me from rifle while having limited time and cloak to do so good on them and good shot, it's why SMG Cloakers are more common. The problem we have is the main enjoyment for this game for most is the ability to rack up kills...if you reduce any classes ability to do so or make a class require more skill or hard work to do so you will see a lack of interest gradually increase. Those classes seem great...No class should have access to both Sniper rifles and SMGs and the break up of it in to 2 seems a great idea.
Bolters and also SMG infills also are extremely strong and especially after nanoweave armor giving them 20% more damage. New players will call this bullsh*t and just uninstall the game because it is. Every single people i was trying to convince to this game call this class a total bullsh*t. New player can't handle that massive chaos in big battles and when you tell them, they also need to pay attention to some barely visible shimmer to not get flanked from 360* in any time, most of them just abbandon infantry gamelplay. ADS when invis + 0.5s decloak time + clientside + instant cloak again + removing spot marker for free when cloak + scanner sound like a aprils fool class design to troll. Playing against spy 10vs10 in TF2 is hard and we are talking 90vs90 fights that your attention should be everywhere and than you got this "class" that can pop up from nowhere. Its Just bad game design. Decloakcing and cloacking should be like 2-3s long and cloaking again require some cooldown/or infils should be able to clock only when they don't get hit after 5s, but in the same time cloack should be silent and almost perma invisible so infil can flank to get kill. IF DEVS WANT NEW PLAYERS IN THIS SLOWLY DYING GAME, THEY SHOULD DO SOMETHING WITH INFILTRATORS FAST! Don't even want to talk about darklight which is just total joke
I rarely play on the infiltrator, but if I do - KD steadily doubles or triples (SMG or Semi-Auto style). This is easy mode. I also noticed a pattern that if you dominate a player - he first changes his class to heavy, and then to infiltrator.
I'd argue cheesing using clientside detection to OHKO someone with a bolter without appearing on their screen is a 10/10. Using cheese to exploit the ennemy's situational awarness by always attacking from behind is fluctuating, and I'd rank it at the same level as the overshield, 5/10. The overshield is reliable (with resist shield, otherwise headshots are to be taken into account) whereas a cloaker can be caught out of position or flashlighted (when it works)
KD doesn't matter, you can sit on a hill and snipe and if you're not stupid you can get a high KD. Most PS2 players are, just like the ones getting farmed by them. 0 awareness.
as an infil main, i find that the cloaking in and out is so strong with the networking the way it is, even with just a pistol and a knife can run around constantly flanking players, if they arent heavy assaults with good aim and the reflex to enable their shield when they take dmg they die before they even see me and any friendlies cant react because im likely already gone, with adreno pump in out of a building before before im dead even if i catch return fire. So for me its the mobility thats broken for the infil in combination with the cloak, so id like the change to remove the ability to scope while cloaked and maybe highly reduced/removed sprint while cloaked
I've never found Infiltrators to be much of a pain point. I wish I was better at playing the class, but I'm reasonably good at evading them, so it works out.
As a terrible player, I personally find infiltrators to be no more efficient at farming me than any other class. The only exception that I would say is just a mechanic that never serves as anything other than a very un-fun part of the game to EVERYONE but the guy doing it is the cloak + shotgun flash. Just make the cloak flash unable to equip a weapon but let it carry a passenger, cloaked. That could make for some really cool team play instead of just a roaming random death every few minutes in large engagements. That, or don't make the flash able to re-cloak before or after firing for at least a couple seconds.
I don't know why we can't just disable ADS during cloak and max the COF when uncloak happens. It would fix all of the problems without taking any tools away from anyone or asking for an entire new class or major overhaul which would have to be integrated into the entire rest of the game. I think it would prevent the instant uncloak snipes entirely, while CQC infils can still operate mostly in the same way except on a more balanced playing field
One suggestion someone pointed out is as follows If they run sniper riflers, they can't run cloaking devices. Plain and simple, who else is tired from being snipped by someone who kills you then goes invisable with almost zero counterplay? If they run cloakers they can't use snipers. However, they can run cqc weapons like smg's and shotguns. Another idea for the hunter cloak mod is where they can still run weapons, but at the cost that they no longer have a shield and can no longer carry mods to improve combat effectivness. Another thing, they have to appear on radar. Them being invisable and invis to radar is just dumb TBH. Another thing to balance them out is that there has to be at least a 2 second delay before they can fire after uncloaking. being able to insta fire the exact moment they uncloak is not right, I can't tell you the number of times a cloaker appears in front of me firing, killing then going right back to being invisable before they even fully reappear is annoying and watching them run away is just pethetic. Im sure many agree to this happening to them as well. Either way though, I can't tell you the number of times im killed by some sniping cloaker helping push an advance or one sneking behind and knifing everyone to death. I bright this up in a match last night and all I got was "Get gud!" "Uninstall the game then if you don't like it' and my favorite from a VS player that was running a mod that Dm's people they kill "F**** slit your wrists and die already noob."
I like the idea of switching cloak to a personal GSD. I've believed for a while that simply nerfing the decloak time (a lot, like 3 seconds) would be a net positive change, though perhaps not as much for stalker infils.
Maybe a tool instead of a personal GSD ability, you only ever need to use GSD once or twice, never consistently like every other ability. It would give stalker infils a tactical buff, and if they're caught while going through, they can't cloak because of the GSD field. And then maybe a hacking tool in order to hack vehicles, that would take that same GSD tool slot. It could replace the recon tools.
Man! I love all your infiltrator ideas. I've been wanting the "snipers" to get separated from infils from the start. Thanks for bringing this up. I hope they go with it and listen to a voice of reason.
Thanks for the blackout support. I main Infil (CQC Sniper loadout, and SMG as a second-pick) and I definitely feel like Infils face very few boundaries to effectively engaging in stealth. Granted, I’m super biased-I have too many hours just in this class and effectively learned positioning and engagement through this class. (Though I’m by no means an expert) Some simple tweaks could be introducing a standard laser attachment that comes with a narrow darklight that’d be available for “-S” variant weapons and other weapons that are performing particularly poor in the meta. Another solid inclusion might be an Engineer and/or Infiltrator Resource-consuming Utility Deployable that provides a small zone of Darklight, something great for pointholds. Could even show “blips” on the minimap for enemies within the light or something. Neither are perfect and would require new assets but I believe particularly in the first suggestion.
I kind of feel like a scout/recon specialist ought to have some mobility options. So maybe their 'power' could be a grappling hook. Those are becoming increasingly popular in modern games, it seems.
2 things they should do to nerf infils is not allowing to aim while cloaked, decrease the time you can stay cloaked or make you 30% more visible while cloaked
I like the idea honestly breaking up the classes is a really cool idea. Im about to hist asp 3 on my nc and have basically everything, new classes and asp perks would be cool to work on unlocking. And could be a cool mini series
I think one of the main problem is that there isn't any compensation for reaction time and client side calculation. One way to do that would be by adding a "no fire" cooldown for at least "the big guns"(sniper and scout) on uncloak (could be weapons type dependent). It would give them more vulnerability time when you can counter them while not killing any play-style outright.
My annoyance is the SMG quickfil with Sidewinder canis unstable aim assist on console side lol, it's pretty broken, almost unbeatable in any IVI situation. SMG infil is definitely more meta than Bolters.
Stalker infils are just annoying and a low skill ceiling, while they are annoying, so isn't A2G, Quickfils and more... there are flashlights for a reason.
Until they buy a sea lion and get cloaking and break out of the smg damage and ranges. The amphibious rifles cause problems with infiltrators. I don't think many people noticed since they can't cloak under water so they rarely choose that class and equip it for an under water fight, but a cloaker using an amphibious rifle in a normal fight is crazy good. A sea lion is dang near an lmg under water and the debuff isn't that much above water.
My worst problem with infils is that sometimes you think there's nobody around and you can just chill or catch up to the rest and suddenly you get killed from behind by a random infil that is running around and you can't kill him because you never know where he is going to be. It's just hide and seek with an invisible hider
unfortunately this is just a skill issue… if there’s a random infil running around killing u it’s because u aren’t staying with ur team. as an smg infil main, i promise u if i see more than 1 person in a spot i just run away because i have so much less HP than y’all and i definitely will get traded
A new class should integrate with Group Play imo. Similar to BF2 it could help provide tools for the squad/platoon. It could be called commander and be unlocked with BR100. Depending on the loadout it would give tools similar to other classes but pumped up versions for the whole faction on the base. These abilities would be way more costly (from nanites, to certz or outfit resources) and also painting a big target on oneself for the enemy faction by making them visible on the minimap and/or in 3D space. This could even be amped up to having one player per faction on the map being the Faction Leader unlocking even more powerful abilities for the whole faction which would somewhat tie into the performance of the faction (see victory conditions of foxhole). Example: A loosing faction may be able to triple the size of their warpgate during an alert. Other example: A faction leader may call in a special construction base via the map as a forward point that is visible for all players on all factions.
Bolt action infiltrators are a mixed bag for me. On one hand it feels like how the fight will go is often no longer based on my skill. Either they hit the headshot or they don't and I kill them. Their cloak makes them slippery so the really good bolt action rifles will use cover to pop in and out which is fine but the problem is exasperated by the client-side nature of the game. Client-side is something that infuriates me to no end even on non-infiltrators. A fight between a high ping and low ping will be determined often by who peeks who. The cloak therefore acts as a way to abuse the fundamental net code of the game. But I despise semi-auto snipers far more than Bolt action snipers. Unlike with Bolt actions there is no skill expression excuse of any kind. Just click on the body and win. I think the best solution is to circumvent how the cloak interacts with the client-side nature of the game by making it less frustrating to be on the receiving end. Simply increase the time It takes to recloak and decloak by around or up to half a second. Depending on the weapon you have equipped the longer it takes to fully decloak and recloak. Minimal for pistol side arms, longer for large weapons like sniper rifles woth smgs inbetween.
Cloaking is the only thing that's infuriating at times. I just hate people being able to disappear on a point, hide and attack. More so with mountain snipers. That's it. Everything else doesn't seem like a big deal. Assuming I'm not forgetting something.
Maybe a tool instead of a personal GSD ability, you only ever need to use GSD once or twice, never consistently like every other ability. It would give stalker infils a tactical buff, and if they're caught while going through, they can't cloak because of the GSD field. And then maybe a hacking tool in order to hack vehicles, that would take that same GSD tool slot. It could replace the recon tools.
if you nerf anything you may lose that player base.. the same happend with my friends and tanks.. what you want is as many different wapons as possible.. it just makes more fun.. and yes maybe its is a bit unfair sometimes but than find an other way around that..
Thats true. You should always buff as opposed to nerf. They should look to add other ways of countering infiltrators. Give engineers a darklight they can deploy instead of turrets that reveals in a small AOE. Maybe you could aim it and focus it in to reveal people people at long range in a progressively smaller radius. If you die with it on it should stay on. Maybe you could switch between stationary AOE and aiming modes or have them be separate items. Idk if spitifies can shoot at darklight revealed infils but they should, to allow synergy between engineers. Could work together to set up a killzone or just making certain areas even more dangerous to pass through. Yeah. Someone please respond.
I was on yesterday n ran into another person that uses a mic, very cool It was a big armor fight, both of us w our repair sundies, as other ppl fought to take the base The fight started to slow down around a mountain, neither side would budge much anymore So a base was built, and an infil decided to make it his home. Well the guy was very much not happy, getting angry about an implant they said the class shouldnt be able to have Then the rest of the time was him trying to locate and take the infil out, he called something else out about the infil but I cant remember The reason I talk about the infil through this person is the same reason I told him to just jump into a AV turret w me (which he did and it was a much better experience) There's not point in fighting them, in fights where there is only a few ppl there, pretty much the only way your allowed to play is if you go infil yourself. But you'll obviously be outmatched by the person who does nothing but plays the class, your chances are much much better but at that point your forced to play _their_ game The reason I dont have an angered hatred toward them is because I just dont put myself through that, I just leave lol I honestly think that's the best way to fight it because I know they'll just be there completely alone w the mind numbing experience of watching the capture bar fill And when they finally cap enough bases, or just about cut off connection to others, an outfit directs a squad from the platoon there and just rolls over them till they're back a few bases and right back to sitting alone x'D As for the bolt action CQC, I agree w Cyrious. It's a pretty big concerned but on a handful of ppl do it right And the few times I do die to it, the infil falls right after since he reveals himself for it My only actual gripe w the class is when I die to a sniper off somewhere sitting in a corner Even that only goes as far as me saying "ofc there's a camper there" and I remind myself to be in a vehicle when outdoors lol
The biggest problem with cloak is severside. It doesn't matter how you split them into two different classes as long as you have cloak you'll continue to get these fast kills.
The recon sounds interesting. A special ability to mark Q spotted enemies for longer and for allies in a wider area and you got something that is actually valuable to the team. Hell, a buddy of mine and me ran around as engineers with the Masthead and with a Harasser to get around for a while. The Masthead is tons of fun and the rechambering sounds like the casing of a 30mm hitting the ground. You have limited AA and AV capability and if you can land a shot with the slow moving bullet even one hit headshot potential. We mostly sat in the hills near a fight and passed on intel aswell as harassing the opposing team on long range.
For me… I think the infil is fine the way it is, BUT!!! If I had my way. I would make one change and one change only. I would let them keep the “cloak” but I would make it a way more visible when moving no matter what cloak ability used. You want new players… I’m fairly new, I’m two years in. But to me it was the infil that was cloaked running around farming me. It was not fun…. If I was a quitter the infil cloaked would be the reason I’d quit. Not to mention those who play infil… most are so good at it. The challenge of mastering that class. By nurffing the cloak while moving helps new players see them better, and give the older players a-little shake. Make them work harder or remaster the class. Just my thoughts.
Id rather play PS2 now that it finally somewhat works rather than getting PS3 and having out PC's crap out on us all over again. Planetside 3 might be awesome, but not like "buy a 4090rtx to play this" awesome.
@@rederickfroders1978 Planetside 2 is made on Forgelight game engine and it is not the best out there but still was built for mmo games. There are lots of good game engines that runs and looks much better. They are easier to build the game as well. When ps2 was launched normal type computers could run it well but through time due to lack of optimisation with updates and old engine that spec requirement has increased and they need to work on that.
Honestly your suggestions about new classes are quite refreshing.. We really could go full sci fi on this, new classes could range from Melee Specialists/samurai that have a huge shield and armor, we could have a Drone Specialist that has several types of drones for kamikazi, lockdown, covering fire, even new types of deployable turrets, drones that latch to your shoulder and provide targeting and even fire at enemies. To expand on this, I really wish we could have a more interesting construction system where you could build robots, like a red alert rts system, you use cortium to build and upkeep these semi-autonomous fighting droids, semi because they need a operator back at their base guiding them, it could work like this, you have a remote controlled drone that works as a squad leader that you can either remote control or give simple commands to and they have 4 to 10 droids tethered to them, these are mostly, for good reason, cannon fodder, but while remotely controlled they can capture points, their arsenal is limited, they can be given simple orders to track visible targets, follow, defend a place. And these are just the basic droid stuff, if implemented this AI system could do lots of stuff, we could have semi-autonomous vehicles that you can give orders to call to your location, if they have a gun they could have a "sentinel" mode activated where they can provide covering fire, useful for your scout class to flee pursuers. Back on robotics for constructions, we could have a new type of tank/vehicle that's basically a robot, a bit inferior to lightening tanks that can roam around your territory or be told to roam around certain areas, or remote controlled, they could have anti-air weapons, rocket launchers and a light machine-gun, or have versions of these vehicles that can lay mines on command/taking from the cortium within the silo to build, deploy a huge scanner, deploy a drone swarm, maybe even work as a SAM where you feed it coordinates to launch mortar shells at. I have seen simpler milsims with cool systems such as the SS13 Colonial Marines and people get quite good at it. maybe something you could customize these robotic vehicels be multirole, but these have high cortium upkeep so you need to be constantly getting more. I mean, these are simpler than the "bastion fleet carriers", the construction robotics could be used to ease some of the weak points of construction and make it a lot more alluring to players, especially not very skilled ones, or people like me that would like to migrate from the power knife infil role for a while. The construction robots should require a whole building to function, like a control room, to control the droids and a droid factory with options for auto vehicles and droids of every kind. This would change the dynamic of the game quite a lot! and in my view at least, doesn't look so unbalanced, since they're limited by a lot of factors, cortium production and upkeep, if they lose their cortium source or control room they could shut down, or even go rogue. We could even implement a sort of hacking system to make them self-destruct or switch sides, maybe a skill from the drone specialist/scout class to be able to remotely hack stuff, scramble targeting of vehicles, use emp grenades to shut down robots or vehicles for a few minutes There is potential for more Real Time Strategy in this game. And the control room could become a lot more central to the game, you could upgrade the control room to help locate new cortium sources, employ a sensor around your base to locate enemies that aren't cloaked, and of course, give orders to droids and auto vehicles.
I am a new player, level 21 playing on PS5. I dont think I've encountered any CQC bolters. However, I do not know how to handle the SMG infiltrators and it's frustrating. It feels like they pop up and I'm dead in a second. I see them maybe 50% of the time but Im not good enough to react in time. On the other hand, I love playing medium to long range sniper infiltrator. Im just using the stock Vanu sniper fwiw. Havent decided if im going to stick with the game long enough to put money into it.
I think infiltrators are too focussed on killing enemies in PS2 as it stands. They should be for, well, infiltration. Less focus on killing people and more focus on hackingand destabilizing bases while avoiding detection. Problem is that there arent enough systems in bases of which Infiltrators can really interact with. Planetside 1 had alot of stuff for Infiltrators to do, maybe too much even, but PS2 has almost nothing. Sniper players are fine, but they shouldnt have all the cloaking benefits. That said, I dont get angry about infiltrators killing me. I expect to die alot in this game. Especially as an Engie main. But yeah, balance is a problem. Breaking up the class sounds like a good idea.
Muzzle velocity : 100 - 200 muzzle velocity reduction would make a requirement from players to play around bullet drop as well instead only tracking targets movement. I remember when I bought with my hard earned certs a M77-B + 12x Scope and hitting targets near it's maximum effective range. Counteracting both player's movement and bullet drop. RAMS .50M with its 700 muzzle made sniping trivial. Doubling chamber time : Might seem too harsh but that would make chamber times around 2s - 3s which is still something that infiltrators can work with + it would make Critical Chain implant mandatory for chain sniping. ScopeIn time : Yea, this hidden stat (excluding NSO weapons, funny enough that their scope in time is higher) makes quickscoping quite forgiving, leaving plenty of milliseconds to aim for the head. Straight-Pull : This makes a failed headshots slightli less punishing and followup bodyshots are easier. Only gripe I have with this is it has no negative side to it. Easy pick of a attachement. Double the reload time or something. AlfaDamage bodyshots : My biggest problem with bolting might be 650-700 base damage. A failed headshot(most likely to be a bodyshot) is still incredibly potent, eating up one medkit and disabling target's shiel up to 6-10s. Thats absurd. Trust me if I tell you that you will get plenty of certs + being useful to your squadmates for literally no effort just by aiming at bodies. Solution that I would propose for this would be reduction for all snipers (except NSX Daimyo) damage by 20-30% while simultaneously raising their headshot multiplier to 2.5x. Keeping oneshot-headshot potential while taking an edge from bodytaps. + if the final base damage would be slightly below 500, it would make hip-shot+quick-knife not a guaranteed kill, forcing the infiltrator to use a sidearm. Deepcloack Bug Fix : This applies for every infill, but I am sick that its still in the game. For those who dont know, while your deepcloack implant is active, your declocking will become practicaly instant (I think it's just 1 frame delay). Compounded with server lag you will get one tapped before even seeing the enemy. Just clarify, sniping (both semi and bolting) in this game is easy. And if anyone says otherwise, they know it and just want to keep this Farmingside2 way of play alive. To those I want to tell just one thing. Play engineer anti-material sniper. This made me fall in love with sniping again. No way to fall back on your cloak, requiring from you a sharp and quick aim. I have never felt more joy in this game out sniping a cloaked infills, or successfuly chaining 1v3 heavies in a row while being in close-quarters, knowing one mistake would resolve in death.
Literally never have I thought Infiltrator was OP- If anything, I'd argue the opposite, save for when they're in the proper hands. I can't play Infiltrator for the life of me, and I applaud people who can. The only thing that I think needs tweaking is how they get their recon done, to make them a bit more team-based, instead of being so focused entirely on solo-sneaking
Come to Cobalt and you will know why Cloak is busted and should get a change or hard nerf, I know most ppl dont like the idea, but Id rather see Cloak being smth, that requires ppl to be proactive or smth that is a reward for a kill, so you can reposition, like the nightmare implant. For example Stalkers shouldnt be able to sit forever in a corner, especially since nanoweave nerf, they can easily kill you very fast especially on tr with KCAP ammo. We have some laggy Stalker mains who basically onetap you, before you can take a medkit, even as heavy. The worse server perfomance doesnt help it either. Make Stalkers hold a tool in their hand for example, they could still be annoying, but they would need to play more cautious and ppl would have more time to react, when they hear them uncloak. Hunter cloak could be smth, that makes you like 12 seconds or longer invisible, after you kill someone. Also the motion tools should get nerfed, ping slower or have reduced radius by a lot, every fight has at least one cloaker, doesnt matter the size. You are either forced to take sensor shield or everyone knows where you come from, its a free version of a wallhack. For new players playing the cloaker class is probably fun, as many of them tend to sit in mountains and just snipe down on ppl, but facing vets that play cloak is very annoying and frustrating for them.
As someone whos been training about a dozen new players, just the fact that they appear and can dissapear before a natural human reaction time really turns people away. Which really shouldn't be all that complicated of a fix. More or longer range darklights, maybe tools or placables? Something a lot easier from a development perspective is just increasing the time between cloak/uncloaks. Add a few more milliseconds before you can shoot after uncloaking even. This would tone down the pop in effect and still allow infils to remain infils.
It's the SMG infils that do it for me. Just materializing in front of you with their sights already lined up on your head and firing before they've even actually decloaked on the player's screen. Infil spam in general is bad enough that it's made several friends of mine quit the game because they got so tired of dealing with invisible turbosweats abusing bad netcode. What was said about their cloak being a separate item that they need to equip in their hands to be able to go invis would be the quickest way to bring them into line. They use the cloak to get into position, then have to play by the same rules as everyone else instead of being able to, as stated, abuse the game's netcode to be impossible to see while racking up kills.
I love your idea of a new class that would give more life into the game... only thing I withe change is that when popping out of cloak you're only doing day 75% of the damage for like 1/2 a sec or something... so you can freely move around as an infil but there is a cost to dropping your cloak and shooting
I think most of the players that says they really don't have problems with infil/bolt action are players that mostly play during the peak hours (US time) and not into the late night. During peak hours, in the mist of the chaos, you are most likely not to have cqc bolters problem. BUT during late night or early morning, when the players from the other side of the globe are on, but not many players are on in total numbers, you will run into the same few good players that'll kill you over and over in cqc with the bolter.
1:50 I don't know how they are now since I left during the construction update. But I never found cloakers to be "OP" they can annoy the living hell out of you but if you played as a cloaker for awhile you tended to learn how they operated which made countering them pretty easy or decent. That said fighting a legendary cqc sniper was straight up misery for the receiving end. Props to them for honing such a difficult skill.
When I play Infiltrator, I do recon stuff. I come up to buildings and drop the motion sensor. I rarely shoot at enemies and actually prefer to avoid combat (I know, crazy). The drone sounds good and I use stalker armor so I can station myself someplace and spot enemies and such. I would want the class for recon to not have the sniper, but load it up with more intel gathering items. Perhaps a sniper gun that doesn't kill someone, but attaches a tracking dart to them for x seconds. Basically, I'd like it to be 3 classes. Intel, Hacker and Sniper.
the problem I've always found with bolter infiltrators is, due to latency, they fire before fully de-cloaking on my end meaning I usually end up dead or so severely on the back foot that I might as well be dead.
Idea: Recon retains infiltrator primary weapon slot options + shotgun perhaps new Infiltrator - New primary weapon class: Pistol conversion kit - improves dmg drop a little, and recoil for your equiped secondary . Ads option to mount primary weapons attachments (foward grip, you could use suppressor for commissioner etc.) - One model required for all sidearms, if done well, type of pistol housed inside would not be problem to recognise
Every current class has an obvious role, and are viable in all circumstances. I feel splitting one class in to recon, sniper, and infil would make all of them too niche tbh.
I really don't think the fact that cqc cloaker is used by few people is a good reason for it to not be nerfed. An op loadout is still an op loadout. Quite the opposite that would be more of a reason to nerf it, as very little people are benefitting from said op loadout.
I don't think I would play the "severely crippled at close range" class though. Snipers are by themselves a lot. Maybe instead of a recon ability, they have an ability that makes them run faster so they might be able to outrun anything that isn't a vehicle or light assault. Maybe even a short-range teleport if they could code that in, something in the 20-40 meter maximum range.
I definitely like your idea of seperating the cloak and sniper/scout rifles. Tho i am gonna miss my recon darts on my cqc smg loadout if this goes through.
The problem i think is not the infiltrators but the server lag, countless times i've been shot by a fully cloaked infiltrator. This is caused by either lag from servers, really high ping from the other player, or low tickrate. I don't think we should overly complicate the classes by making a new one. How about scope glint for infiltrators? They did this in Battlefield, if you use a powerful scope it glints at the enemy when you stand in a particular place for any length of time. Then maybe they can remove the death cam cause i hate that thing.
for me personally smg infil kinda more annoying than cqc bolter, u can kill everything, everyone if they play with full potential. Infil should stay like what they are right now, the only thing i may wanna change about infil bolter is they can't scope when in cloak.
So I do want to offer some criticism on the format. While I like these videos and these thought practices, I think we could possibly make better use of the discord up to and including pulling in community voices in kind of a podcast format. I could look at setting up the discussion bridge facilitate this sort of discourse if we want to look at that for future episodes -zip
So Iam a veteran from a game called Foxhole and have quite a bit of experience in planetside 2. I did bring around 15 people from Foxhole to Planetside2 and all of them are new players. All of them say its an absolute shit feeling to be killed by Infiltrators that go on and off screen visible. I think the smg Infiltrators are the most annoying thing change my mind. Oh and btw most of my friends all stopped playing with the simple reason that Infiltrators are pain to fight against... With other classes you are atleast able to see them, and if you die its simply on you. A Infiltrator that wants to kill you will kill you
I have to admit that I do not have a major problem with infils, but I never play at prime time when I hear it can get really bad. Very rarely do I come across a close range bolter user who is a major threat, and usually infils get me when I am engaging someone else, which is frustrating but fine. Snipers on the hills or in Hossin trees are a minor annoyance. I did like a suggestion by Camikaze recently which suggested infils cannot aim down sights while cloaked. What I really do have an issue with is Infil recon tools - the power of them is obviously balanced as everyone can use them, but it inhibits tactics as if you try to flank an aware enemy then they know about it already. It massively gives veterans an advantage as they have trained themselves to glance at the minimap every few seconds, allowing us to aim at doorways, prefire and lay traps with C4 and the like. If I had my way I would pull all recon tools out of the game, bar spotting which would simply place a static icon at the point where the player was on the minimap to those players near the spotter.
I like your idea of splitting the classes up. Another thought that if things were to remain the same disallowing short/medium range scopes on bolt actions and removing the hip fire cross hair could be a simple solution. Scout rifles...though. there could be an argument for disallowing infils to use them or make it an ASP upgrade requiring 2 or 3 points making the climb to that more difficult with probably less players overall using the weapon. Now honestly I'm less bothered by infils than most people with the exception of cqc blackhand or smg infils. I'm still less bothered overall because not a ton of people are good at infils of any playstyle. Like counter sniping scout and bolt action infils is very easy and when i come across some as good or better than me I find it a fun challenge of dangerous peekaboo lol. I take bigger issue with other features of the game, like maxes existing and air to ground for ESFs being too strong even after the nerf. My biggest pet peeve was the removal of the ANT cloak. I rarely saw battle ANTS using it before the removal and now we can't avoid liberators and ESFs while farming even with mounted weapons.
CQC bolting is uninteractive to play against but it is somewhat alleviated by PS2 being a team game with medics and other stuff. Cloakers with snipers would be really cancer if open field infantry fights existed, but those do not exist because if there is an open field fight happening you just pull a vehicle which infs are useless against.
2 or 3 power knife infils on Cobalt were the most annoying infils in the game. Somehow they could kill you while still cloaked. Latency or smt I believe. But they were running through crowd like piss through snow. Even when everyone knew one of them is here and were looking exactly for him. I saw him coming my way and still couldn't kill him in nano cloak before I die and only then I saw him uncloak and run the animation. Very strange experience.
The difference between knife infils and bolters are that knife infils actually have to close the distance to kill you. Bolters do not put themselves at risk to get instant kills.
@@JohnFromAccounting In my experience it's not hard to snipe a sniper. So I see why bolters might provoke rage, but not more then any other skilled opponent. At least for me. While this knife dudes were annoying as hell coz none could do anything to them. I still think the were exploiting something or using some net-filters or other hacks... but reddit and discord discussions ended up with typical: "Were they flying? No? Then it's not hackers!" xD Anyway - those infils were the worst and the only real annoying interactions that made me relocate to another hex.
for me, more annoying than the CQC bolters, more annoying than the cloak is the damn detection devices making Sensor Shield borderline mandatory hogging up an implant slot. IMHO it'd be much better if these huge AOE detection devices were instead replaced with placeable tripwires which would cause an enemy to be spotted for 10 seconds if they walk through it.
Infils are why I quit playing. They simply have way too many tools all the while being almost invisible. Give infils a drawback (cause health/dmg taken simply aint it). 1 sec cooldown before a weapon can be fired once leaving cloak. Cant ADS down cloak, etc. Anything other than what they are now may bring some of the community back.
Love the idea of making a different class and introducing new toys like the drone, but this might be too much. Instead integrate the new abilities and make them restrict certain weapons (just like stalker cloak does) So it makes you choose between a recon loadout (very helpful, sniper/scout access, new stuff, no cloak) and the good ol' cloaky boy but this time limited to CQC only. Also I see suggested no aim down sights allowed when cloaked (that could help too, since decloaking then aiming would take precious time that would help equal clientside abuse) *whispers*((PD: also remove a merely 100hp from the HA overshield and the game fixes itself))
Remove CQC bolters and make firing a weapon disable your ability to cloak for 4 seconds. CQC bolter that one tap you before they even render on your screen is something that should have been removed years ago. Temporarily disabling the ability to recloak would remove infiltrators ability to 1v20 and make infiltrators more reliant on kill, hide, recloak, repeat instead of pop into existence, kill, cloak, repeat. Those two changes alone would make be a massive improvement to the state of the game for infantry combat.
I'm a fan of the auto-scout-rifles, I know and love my NSO BAR-A50 With so many possible playstyles on infiltrator all able to be happening at once it makes sense to split them up a little more I'm also of the opinion that the class based system is kind of archaic, and definitely enjoy the freeform loadout building systems in other games waaaaay more But that is definitely like a 5,000,000 hours balancing operation so I'm all for more classes instead
The easy and more likely thing we could expect to actually get is to simply improve the cloak, less visible, longer duration, no sound when entering cloak but instead have the sound play when exiting cloak + impose a 2-3 second delay before you can take an action like shoot or throw grenades. Cloak should not be a offensive tool where you pop out in someones face and have an advantage, it should be a positioning and mind game tool. You are in one location shooting stuff, someone goes for you, you cloak and move and since there is no sound when you enter cloak unless you did it in view they have no idea if you are just hiding for cover or literally went running for the hills. Personally I dislike all types of in-your-face cloaked infiltrators because it does not matter all that much what they are using, even pistols have super low TTK with headshots and SMGs might not even need to ADS so its both a "surprise you are now at half health and dead in 0.5 seconds" and a very agile target strafing/ducking around the place. If we can dream though I do think splitting the class into two would be a good idea both for balance and extra content but more/new classes just in general would be a great idea for the game. I know several years ago there were some community talk about a more melee focused class for example, being somewhat of a medieval knight in concept having a shield(kinda like Aegis shield for NC MAX) and above average health/shields but would be limited in ranged weapons which could be interesting but probably a nightmare to balance. I think Engineer is another class aside from Infiltrator that the game would benefit from being split into two classes, one would be something like "Vehicle Operator/Mechanic" which is what most people currently use Engineer as so it would not be too different from now but the new class that would probably keep the "Combat Engineer" title would have a less efficient repair tool that in turn can construct a variety of deployables like the small cover shields, turrets(that other people can use too), probably some intel stuff like the Infiltrator motion sensor and so on. Basically the new Engineer would be Construction Small Edition, base building within dev bases... or outside if someone really wanted so more or less all deployables we have now like cover shields, small sky shields, motion sensor, turrets + new variants of these for example maybe different shaped cover shields, AA turret, small jump pads. All the gadgets. Paid for with NANITES to limit spam but also have the option to charge the construction tool with Cortium so if you run out of Nanites there is always the option of visiting a Silo and steal some of theirs(even enemy factions?!).
Infiltrator has a high skill floor. It feels like I delete way more bolt babies, shimmers who think they're invisible, and bad uncloaking decisions than I get terrorized by them. You need good game sense, aim, and decision-making to use the very limited non-invisibility effectively to make up for your low HP. You need to not run into a 1v1 unprepared and die. And to execute a good ambush, so the heavies don't just turn around and head click you. And then, to escape the six players you just aggroed. In comparison, light assaults can camp a roof and not deal with the cloak - they just peek and shoot the bad guys. It took me years before I got gud enough to play infi effectively. People blame the class when a lot of the time they should blame the player. That same 3.0 K/D player as heavy will still dink you in the head -- except now it's the overshield that's OP. Should that player pull medic, they'd dink you in the head too. To people who complain about cloaker being OP... try it! If it's so good then surely you will have lots of multikill or killstreak clips to share in no time. Or, you might realize that it has a learning curve and is very strong in some situations and weak in others.
CQC Bolters and SMG infils aren't much of a problem as experienced players know they are there and can react. But when you are sniped from 100m away with no way to know that there was a sniper there, that's an issue.
BRO Bs in infantry wars , inf v inf on hosson bases, every top team filled their cqc ers with top bolters you were allowed 2 per team. .they always got most kills
Infil and LA are the main class that can flank/go in back the line properly depending on the facility. This is the uniqueness of ps2. People complaining are just regular fps player who don’t want to adapt and learn. I killed a lot with them and die a lot from them. Let everyone enjoy the game whatever the class. If you take an heavy on open field and die to a sniper, your decision is the issue and not the enemy player class or game. You need to learn to take safe route when walking on the field and also to use your brain cells a bit. If you wanna play without using your head you can try other games. Stop complaining about anything when you’re the issue (skill gap) And sorry new player but ps2 is a “grind” type game and that’s the same for every similar game
When I play Infiltrator I rarely feel vulnerable decloaking in front of a single enemy. I know that if they didn't see me first, I can kill them before they have time to react. That doesn't sit right with me. If it took longer to fire after decloaking, everything wrong with Infiltrator could be fixed. In CQB, infils would actually need to be strategic about when they reveal themselves, rather than just going in guns blazing whenever they have a clear shot. It would also mean that long range sniping would feel more fair, because you'd at least get a chance to react before they fire. Those to me are the only real problems that make Infil overpowered. It just isn't counterable right now in a live environment
I think it’s a good idea to add another class, especially as a recon. I think it would be cool to make recon more of a movement class. Since they can’t disappear, maybe make them really nimble and fast with a grappler or some movement utility. Double jump or wall run would be awesome as well. I know I’m kinda just describing a tf2 grapple pilot but still, a movement class in a massive game like ps2 would be great. But I don’t think it’s possible performance wise. I don’t think the game servers could handle it lol.
I'd like to see them try where you can shoot without decloaking but once you pass a certain damage threshold it drains the charge for it entirely and you have to wait for it to recharge all the way before you can cloak again. So you get somewhat of a buff but also a nerf. This would allow a good player one definite kill and maybe two but now you can't just do hit and run tactics. You could also offset it by decreasing the general cloak drain and maybe kills after losing all power increases the rate at which it refills. I get the appeal of the class so i don't think a straight nerf would be good but a rework would be best
only just started the video but after dealing with infils for years, we need a better counter to invisible dudes with sniper rifles that isn't a pidly flash light
4:20 JJJ888 go get Phylactery on your engineer loadout if you plan on using mana turrets as if you're killed while on them there's a bug that will just res you every time so long as you die while on a turret or rumble seat. This way pesky cloakers don't just knock you down a peg while using your turret.
And sniper trails are huge compared to all other bullet trails - sniper nerf And there are killcam zoom ins that show who killed you and where - sniper nerf And EMP grenades don't disrupt abilities anymore - infil nerf
id suggest that allowing them to start a timed hack on cortuim silos to take over palyer bases but it would hae to be a long timer. the personal shield defuser is a good idea.
5:10 SMG infils did actually annoy me more than sniper cqc infils as I've done it and is honestly low skill to get some decent fruit while high skill players can really wreck house on a consistent bases. They basically have a machine gun and 4 out 5 times get to shoot first from a flank position. If they're a decent shot they can kill the target before they have any time to react thanks to latency being a thing. Also since it's not a sniper they're not limited to 1 to 3 shot per attack cycle but instead can dump around 10 to 30 rounds which allows for greater room for error.
Light assault and Infiltrators allowing solo minded players to excel in their solo centric play is a weight on this games neck and has been since launch.
Heavies are a menace in short range, where 80% of the engagements take place. Infiltrators are a menace everywhere. Best in the game long range infantry weapons, best mid range weapons (scouts), access to arguably most potent CQC weapon class - SMGs. Highest DPS SMGs can still be a death sentence even to a good Heavy who got jumped, assuming equal skill. But more importantly, Infiltrators absolutely demolish any semblance of long range combat. Huge field battles become skirmishes for Infiltrators, long range weaponry on any other class can't compete with the combined potential of Infiltrator tailored weapons and the cloak.
I can’t even get mad at those cracked CQC bolter infils. I’m more impressed than anything when one of them starts destroying me. SMG infils on the other hand….
![Summer Walker - Heart Of A Woman [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/SFddctbZzw8/mqdefault.jpg)
Only when I die to one.
The story of every death in Planetside 2 in 6 words. This might be the end of the debate.
Exactly ^_^ infil bolt main btw, 40% accuracy haha
This! I think this is the answer for 90% of the endless complaining (i. e. whining) that is all too prevalent in PS2. Oh ... That and it's ALL Wrel's fault!
NO one like to think people are better at the game than them, even when they are not :)
Disable cloak with sniper rifles equipped.
THERE I fixed it again
We DO find SMG infils just as much and even more of a problem than CQC bolters, which, as you say takes skill and is rare.
I like the idea of a new class, but I don't think that's the treatment infil needs - I've said it for years and my opinion hasn't changed, what infil needs is to not be able to shoot for about 500ms longer after they uncloak than currently. In a game with favor-the-shooter netcode it is absolutely bonkers for it to be designed the way it currently is, where depending on ping, you can be dead on their screen (and so in reality) before you can realistically even see them on your screen. buff other stuff if you need to compensate, but that is the part that needs changed if the class is to be less toxic to the game.
It depends on who you ask. The thing about the 'great infil debate' is that not everyone agrees. Some people only hate cqc bolters; others hate all snipers; some hate semi-autos more than the snipers; some hate stalkers, others don't hate stalkers; some hate smg infils, others don't.
Regardless, if infils are to be changed; there is an option that would solve 90% of people's complaints against infils. Make the cloaking ability a gadget that must be held. If you go from holding the gadget to holding a weapon; you automatically decloak before you finish switching. You could even give the gadget longer de-equip times. This would delegate the cloak for being used for actual _infiltration_ and getting to advantageous locations without being scene, rather than ambushing someone immediately from decloak.
@@josephburchanowski4636 to me, this seems like the same suggestion i made - though possibly more extreme depending on how long an infil must be visible before they can shoot in your schema. the main argument is certainly the same - it's the time delay between uncloaking and shooting that is the problem.
@@senturian There are a few reasons I prefer the gadget approach. One of the reasons deals with one of the bugs regarding netcode; sometimes after decloaking you can't actually shoot for bit occasionally when the servers are having trouble; so a 500ms delay added on top of the occasional bug would make infils unsure of when they'll be able to shoot. Swapping from the gadget to a weapon meanwhile shows through animations when you'll be able to shoot.
The second reason is that the gadget with a long de-equip time as a hard nerf can be combined with cloak duration and recharging buffs for a decent 'rework'. Infils that use cloaks for actual infiltration or getting to advantageous locations would benefit from the rework; while infils that use cloak in more infuriating ways would be nerfed.
I think the main issue isn't about them being overpowered... They're just really annoying to fight against, to the point where I feel they tend to cause more pain than not.
One thing I will say it is that the infil is a heavy adjustment for a new player. Learning to see a cloaked infil and adjusting for how PS2 netcode affects sniping and how to avoid it takes time. When you adjust, it is hardly noticeable, especially when in a group and a medic easily revives you when you are killed, but I do remember the learning curve and I did not enjoy it at all back then.
To me, Planetside was nerfing everything for the past four years. You buy something, because it's a great weapon, and then it gets downgraded, with no refund. Same goes with investing in a particular class. People use their time, thus certs, to improve it, and then developers decide : "Nah, too OP, get f... get nerfed". If I recall correctly, NC has a knife that can switch working regime, and one of the could damage vehicles. Not anymore ! 1000 certs, if I'm correct with the price, are being wasted. I think the same goes for the antimaterial riffles, but I didn't follow all the updates. However, classes, though... Let's make vehicles unrepairable from the inside, because... the repair tool can recognize when you are inside or outside a vehicle. Let's nerf maxes, so they can't be revived. And then... Let's nerf constructions, so there's no exp for the vehicle spawn, thus discouraging players a bit to do the said construction, especially when the last update was about the constructions.
Infiltrator "problem" was there for some time. Let's nerf that too ! I also heard ingame discussions that orbitals are way too overpowered. Let's remove them, because why not. In near future : light assault is too powerful with C4. And when you bring out the colossus, and a bunch of organized paratroopers drop on it from a valkyrie, and C4 it into Valhalla ? Let's nerf C4 or jumpjets, or why not both. Medics are too fast to revive people, or their reviving grenades revive too many. Nerf that please. Oh, and their shield recharging ability should be limited in capacity. The latter doesn't really hinder "farming" that much, so maybe let's keep it... Engineers repair vehicles too fast, and when they drive away, they repair the vehicles, thus vehicles are immortal. Pls, fix dat :( Also, when driving on the mines, they explode, and people die, pls nerf the mines. Heavy assault is okay : it's slow and easy to kill from a distance, but can we, please, nerf their rocket launchers, because they don't allow people to farm how they want while being in the air or ground vehicles. Some implants are way too overpowered when combined.
Oh, if I recall correctly, spawn time from sunderers was downgraded too. Awesome !..
In a couple of years, if the game is still alive, you'll see, you'll be playing Battlefield, since everything that is original, would have been stripped out of the game.
Yep this guy gets it, everything unique in the game has been nerfed into the ground to appease redditoids.
You win the comment section. That last sentence pretty much wraps this up.
One one side you have the sweaty tryhards that want to nerf every single thing in the game that's not part of the meta Heavy Assualt. And on the other end of the spectrum you have your filthy casuals who really just want to play Call of Duty with a bigger player count.
Both mindsets are ruining the game and destroying everything unique about it.
While I agree with what you’ve said 90%, infiltrator is a weird case due to networking issues as others have mentioned in this comment section.
But there is validity in adjusting certain gameplay loops. For instance, I find sweeperhud to be too widespread, it’s pretty much accepted that if you’re a tanker, you run that. The issue with this is when you consider I’ve thrown down hundreds of mines and barely gotten more than like 5 kills. Mines are essentially C4 that you have to manually shoot. That being said, tank mines are incredibly annoying when you DONT have sweeper hud.
Now I don’t know the solution to this issue, but I know it feels bad essentially having a dead gadget slot if you decide to use it.
A partial blame can also be put on the more tryhard playerbase, who tend to push Metas. Playing the “Meta” absolutely destroys any fun that could be had in making specialized kits, because you’re always going to be 3 steps behind the Metagamer. Then, when devs see 70% of the playerbase using a weapon, they’re gonna start looking at it for a nerf. Especially in a game like planetside where technically, everything is supposed to be a “side-grade.” However, the side-grade philosophy has definitely been thrown to the side since implants touched the game.
All this to say is it’s extremely complicated and the blame isn’t entirely on the devs. Players kill the game too.
If infils are to be changed (and be kept a single class); there is an option that would solve 90% of people's complaints against infils. Make the cloaking ability a gadget that must be held. If you go from holding the gadget to holding a weapon; you automatically decloak before you finish switching. You could even give the gadget longer de-equip times. This would delegate the cloak for being used for actual _infiltration_ and getting to advantageous locations without being scene, rather than ambushing someone immediately from decloak.
I'm someone that is basically an "Infil hunter" so more often than not, I just happen to find the infils before they do their goofy shenanigans and end them when they're still shimmering around the map, so frankly the CQC guys don't really bother me that much, honestly the SMG ones and the traditional long range snipers are more consistently dangerous against me.
There's some sort of counterplay to most of what you listed. There isn't much counterplay to "Invisible person scopes you and runs away". It doesn't matter that there aren't a ton of people that main it, especially to a casual or new player it is toxic as fuuuuuuuuuuuuq.
Imo, the simplest thing for daybreak to do on the whole topic - make a no-shoot delay after decloaking longer for sniper rifles to account for clientside time.
1-3 secs maybe
The question should not be whether infiltrators are op in planet side 2 , it should be : are infiltrators a fun addition to the planetside 2?
guess we all know the answer to that one.
I don't think I'd have stayed as long as I did if infils weren't a class.
@@cosmokramer9139 and many many more didnt stay as long as they could stay because of the same reason.
The Recon class needs just one thing to make it as fun as the Infiltrator: GRAPPING HOOK.
More like widowmaker class amiright?
With this, light assault vs recon would be a pretty cool matchup too!
Love it. Take my money!
Honestly ive never really had an issue with infils, I make sure to always be on the move and when I do get shot oh well. But if things should eb changed itd probably help to just not have the option for anything less than like an 8x scope on snipers that can one shot. Think that would force them to have to sit back at a further distance where it would then need more skill to consistently hit headshots
I personally had no problems with Infiltrators, the only problem I have is when there's 70 Infiltrators surrounding a base not allowing you to even leave the spawn rooms... that's it
There are so many ways 70 gamers can do that though. If they all have battle rifles on heavy. If just a few are in the air or tanks. The problem is the zerg, not the infiltrators.
@@planetwomanizzi I suppose that's more or less my point, you said it with more elegance. Yes :) what you said.
Infils camping in the spawn room is worse imo lol
I really like your idea of splitting it into 2 classes, sounds like a lot of fun having them further fulfill specific roles.
I think the problem with infiltrators is that well-played [or at least ideally played] infiltrators don't get in fights. They just score 'cheap' kills. The actual 'fight' in Infiltrators is trying to spot them before they get into their ideal position, and forcing them to CQC instead of Blackhand or snipe would make it much higher risk instead of 'crouch walk to 25m, tap someone, vanish from existence once again'
A dedicated intel class does seem like fun, though, especially since that means you could switch Infil gadgets and gear over to counter-intel and create a metagame between Recon and Infiltrators, and then you could create new ASP functions that allow Light Assaults to access some of Infiltrator's counter-intel tools, and allow Infiltrators to access some of Recon's intel-gaining tools [regaining access, technically] so they can serve as forward observers.
As far as grenades go, a throwable or deployable [or both] jamming device which A: Prevents everyone in the radius from showing up on intel devices B: Obfuscates any intel device inside the radius of the jammer. Make the effect radial and visible on the map so that the origin of the jamming is obvious, much like the deployable recon device. Electronic smokescreens, basically. Supreme Commander, one of my favorite RTS games of all time made the distinction between Cloaking and Radar Stealth, which was units that visually hid themselves vs units that didn't show up on the minimap, and I thought that was a perfect thematic touch. Let's get some of that.
I think the biggest gripe about the infiltrator is the same among many video games where time to kill and alpha damage are extremely short specifically for that one specialization: There's no interplay. In normal combat you see, and you react. But with an infiltrator, generally you either see and die or you just die. Because the time to react in a human might not be enough time.
Infils my least played class after MAX...and even I DONT have an issue with them. Seems anything that requires a counter skill set, or makes a soldier think...people complain about. Hunting down, sneaking up on, killing an infil while cloaked who thinks he un detected are all very satisfying. Nothing like heading for an infil far away that panicks because he knows your tired of him and WILL find and kill him in the rocks or hills lol, its a challenge and one of the reasons I play. I also like the thought of a Reckon class being added.
As an infiltrator and Wraith Flash main with over 1,200 hours, I think that the issue lies entirely with high alpha damage weapons on a stealth centric class.
The class already has SMGs, revolvers, scout rifles, and even melee. As well as the wraith flashguns, such as Kobalt and Fury. It does fine with these tools.
The problem lies with the renegade flashgun and with sniper rifles. These weapons require far less commitment to secure kills than other options in the infiltrator’s arsenal, meaning that the user can just quickly back off if they make any mistakes.
This is a problem. The infiltrator class is all about strategic positioning, and putting yourself into situations where your weapons can compete with the what enemies have. Bolters and renegades completely ignore this aspect of the class design, because they allow you to just instakill people and never actually yourself in danger.
The #1 weakness of the infiltrator class is that it loses to every other class in a direct gunfight. But these weapons simply prevent the gunfight from ever happening, therefor eliminating the only weakness the infiltrator has.
Always good to see another Wraith Flash main. It really blows my mind that this is the ONLY game on the market where vehicle gameplay like this exists. A insane combination of stealth + high speed hit and run tactics. It will be a sad day if Planetside 2 shuts down and this gamestyle alone is lost forever.
Thank you for supporting the blackout Cyrious. I think there's plenty of options to handle infils, but maybe there's situations I haven't run across? 🤷♂️
Either way, can't wait to hear your take on it!
I don't think snipers are OP. However, if something MUST be done, I would recommend what I call "Accelerated Rounds" for all BASRs. Accelerated rounds are essentially micro-missiles that "launch" from the barrel of the rifle at a low muzzle velocity and then accelerate with a propellant over distance. What this looks like in-game would be an inversion of the "damage drop-off" chart, where the close range is the minimum damage and the long range is the maximum damage. If possible, actually include the acceleration in the physics of the projectile, so longer ranges have shorter and shorter travel times. As a trade-off (a give-back to the snipers this will affect) make all BASR shots have no projectile drop; it's a "rocket" accelerating in a straight line.
Devs made the mistake of making Hacking an after thought tool to Infil instead a primary/secondary key weapon as it was in PS1.
As Primary LA SMG and Secondary CQC Bolter Infil i always see HA and Cloaker SMG as both similar giving extra advantage in any 1vs1 even if half competent.
I've always thought SMG Cloakers bigger issue as less skill is required than nailing a single headshot, If Cloaker gets a headshot on me from rifle while having limited time and cloak to do so good on them and good shot, it's why SMG Cloakers are more common.
The problem we have is the main enjoyment for this game for most is the ability to rack up kills...if you reduce any classes ability to do so or make a class require more skill or hard work to do so you will see a lack of interest gradually increase.
Those classes seem great...No class should have access to both Sniper rifles and SMGs and the break up of it in to 2 seems a great idea.
The only "Fix" is to remove them, and i'm an infiltrator main
Bolters and also SMG infills also are extremely strong and especially after nanoweave armor giving them 20% more damage.
New players will call this bullsh*t and just uninstall the game because it is.
Every single people i was trying to convince to this game call this class a total bullsh*t.
New player can't handle that massive chaos in big battles and when you tell them, they also need to pay attention to some barely visible shimmer to not get flanked from 360* in any time, most of them just abbandon infantry gamelplay.
ADS when invis + 0.5s decloak time + clientside + instant cloak again + removing spot marker for free when cloak + scanner sound like a aprils fool class design to troll.
Playing against spy 10vs10 in TF2 is hard and we are talking 90vs90 fights that your attention should be everywhere and than you got this "class" that can pop up from nowhere. Its Just bad game design.
Decloakcing and cloacking should be like 2-3s long and cloaking again require some cooldown/or infils should be able to clock only when they don't get hit after 5s, but in the same time cloack should be silent and almost perma invisible so infil can flank to get kill.
IF DEVS WANT NEW PLAYERS IN THIS SLOWLY DYING GAME, THEY SHOULD DO SOMETHING WITH INFILTRATORS FAST!
Don't even want to talk about darklight which is just total joke
I rarely play on the infiltrator, but if I do - KD steadily doubles or triples (SMG or Semi-Auto style). This is easy mode. I also noticed a pattern that if you dominate a player - he first changes his class to heavy, and then to infiltrator.
It *is* cheesy, like how having a second shield bar is cheesy. People more often hate infils than heavy tho
@@arahelis2038 cheesy does not equal cheesy. if cloak is 10/10 cheesy then shield is like a 2 in comparison.
I'd argue cheesing using clientside detection to OHKO someone with a bolter without appearing on their screen is a 10/10.
Using cheese to exploit the ennemy's situational awarness by always attacking from behind is fluctuating, and I'd rank it at the same level as the overshield, 5/10.
The overshield is reliable (with resist shield, otherwise headshots are to be taken into account) whereas a cloaker can be caught out of position or flashlighted (when it works)
KD doesn't matter, you can sit on a hill and snipe and if you're not stupid you can get a high KD. Most PS2 players are, just like the ones getting farmed by them. 0 awareness.
as an infil main, i find that the cloaking in and out is so strong with the networking the way it is, even with just a pistol and a knife can run around constantly flanking players, if they arent heavy assaults with good aim and the reflex to enable their shield when they take dmg they die before they even see me and any friendlies cant react because im likely already gone, with adreno pump in out of a building before before im dead even if i catch return fire. So for me its the mobility thats broken for the infil in combination with the cloak, so id like the change to remove the ability to scope while cloaked and maybe highly reduced/removed sprint while cloaked
I've never found Infiltrators to be much of a pain point. I wish I was better at playing the class, but I'm reasonably good at evading them, so it works out.
As a terrible player, I personally find infiltrators to be no more efficient at farming me than any other class. The only exception that I would say is just a mechanic that never serves as anything other than a very un-fun part of the game to EVERYONE but the guy doing it is the cloak + shotgun flash. Just make the cloak flash unable to equip a weapon but let it carry a passenger, cloaked. That could make for some really cool team play instead of just a roaming random death every few minutes in large engagements. That, or don't make the flash able to re-cloak before or after firing for at least a couple seconds.
I don't know why we can't just disable ADS during cloak and max the COF when uncloak happens. It would fix all of the problems without taking any tools away from anyone or asking for an entire new class or major overhaul which would have to be integrated into the entire rest of the game. I think it would prevent the instant uncloak snipes entirely, while CQC infils can still operate mostly in the same way except on a more balanced playing field
Take snipers away from infils and give to engineer.
One suggestion someone pointed out is as follows
If they run sniper riflers, they can't run cloaking devices. Plain and simple, who else is tired from being snipped by someone who kills you then goes invisable with almost zero counterplay?
If they run cloakers they can't use snipers. However, they can run cqc weapons like smg's and shotguns.
Another idea for the hunter cloak mod is where they can still run weapons, but at the cost that they no longer have a shield and can no longer carry mods to improve combat effectivness.
Another thing, they have to appear on radar. Them being invisable and invis to radar is just dumb TBH.
Another thing to balance them out is that there has to be at least a 2 second delay before they can fire after uncloaking. being able to insta fire the exact moment they uncloak is not right, I can't tell you the number of times a cloaker appears in front of me firing, killing then going right back to being invisable before they even fully reappear is annoying and watching them run away is just pethetic.
Im sure many agree to this happening to them as well.
Either way though, I can't tell you the number of times im killed by some sniping cloaker helping push an advance or one sneking behind and knifing everyone to death.
I bright this up in a match last night and all I got was
"Get gud!" "Uninstall the game then if you don't like it' and my favorite from a VS player that was running a mod that Dm's people they kill "F**** slit your wrists and die already noob."
I like the idea of switching cloak to a personal GSD. I've believed for a while that simply nerfing the decloak time (a lot, like 3 seconds) would be a net positive change, though perhaps not as much for stalker infils.
Yeah, stalkers are struggling as-is.
Maybe a tool instead of a personal GSD ability, you only ever need to use GSD once or twice, never consistently like every other ability. It would give stalker infils a tactical buff, and if they're caught while going through, they can't cloak because of the GSD field. And then maybe a hacking tool in order to hack vehicles, that would take that same GSD tool slot.
It could replace the recon tools.
3 seconds? What are you smoking and where can I get some?
Man! I love all your infiltrator ideas. I've been wanting the "snipers" to get separated from infils from the start. Thanks for bringing this up. I hope they go with it and listen to a voice of reason.
Thanks for the blackout support. I main Infil (CQC Sniper loadout, and SMG as a second-pick) and I definitely feel like Infils face very few boundaries to effectively engaging in stealth.
Granted, I’m super biased-I have too many hours just in this class and effectively learned positioning and engagement through this class. (Though I’m by no means an expert)
Some simple tweaks could be introducing a standard laser attachment that comes with a narrow darklight that’d be available for “-S” variant weapons and other weapons that are performing particularly poor in the meta.
Another solid inclusion might be an Engineer and/or Infiltrator Resource-consuming Utility Deployable that provides a small zone of Darklight, something great for pointholds. Could even show “blips” on the minimap for enemies within the light or something.
Neither are perfect and would require new assets but I believe particularly in the first suggestion.
I kind of feel like a scout/recon specialist ought to have some mobility options. So maybe their 'power' could be a grappling hook. Those are becoming increasingly popular in modern games, it seems.
i always talked about having a "commando" type class. Could have it freely open to all people or have it as a outfit pull
2 things they should do to nerf infils is not allowing to aim while cloaked, decrease the time you can stay cloaked or make you 30% more visible while cloaked
I like the idea honestly breaking up the classes is a really cool idea. Im about to hist asp 3 on my nc and have basically everything, new classes and asp perks would be cool to work on unlocking. And could be a cool mini series
I think one of the main problem is that there isn't any compensation for reaction time and client side calculation.
One way to do that would be by adding a "no fire" cooldown for at least "the big guns"(sniper and scout) on uncloak (could be weapons type dependent).
It would give them more vulnerability time when you can counter them while not killing any play-style outright.
My annoyance is the SMG quickfil with Sidewinder canis unstable aim assist on console side lol, it's pretty broken, almost unbeatable in any IVI situation.
SMG infil is definitely more meta than Bolters.
I do like your concept for classes, if SMG infil is a thing, their cloak time should be nerfed, or movement speed...maybe even a sidewinder nerf haha.
Stalker infils are just annoying and a low skill ceiling, while they are annoying, so isn't A2G, Quickfils and more... there are flashlights for a reason.
Until they buy a sea lion and get cloaking and break out of the smg damage and ranges. The amphibious rifles cause problems with infiltrators. I don't think many people noticed since they can't cloak under water so they rarely choose that class and equip it for an under water fight, but a cloaker using an amphibious rifle in a normal fight is crazy good. A sea lion is dang near an lmg under water and the debuff isn't that much above water.
The Frogman is a laser beam, too.
My worst problem with infils is that sometimes you think there's nobody around and you can just chill or catch up to the rest and suddenly you get killed from behind by a random infil that is running around and you can't kill him because you never know where he is going to be. It's just hide and seek with an invisible hider
Use a flashlight
@@RumpleFoldSkin but it doesn't work while sprinting, right?
unfortunately this is just a skill issue… if there’s a random infil running around killing u it’s because u aren’t staying with ur team. as an smg infil main, i promise u if i see more than 1 person in a spot i just run away because i have so much less HP than y’all and i definitely will get traded
@@lvriss but even in a 1v1 situation you should have a fair game in my opinion
@@santimantii6434 What would the point of the infiltrator be then? You think stalking and ambushing takes no effort, like it can't go wrong?
A new class should integrate with Group Play imo. Similar to BF2 it could help provide tools for the squad/platoon. It could be called commander and be unlocked with BR100. Depending on the loadout it would give tools similar to other classes but pumped up versions for the whole faction on the base. These abilities would be way more costly (from nanites, to certz or outfit resources) and also painting a big target on oneself for the enemy faction by making them visible on the minimap and/or in 3D space.
This could even be amped up to having one player per faction on the map being the Faction Leader unlocking even more powerful abilities for the whole faction which would somewhat tie into the performance of the faction (see victory conditions of foxhole).
Example: A loosing faction may be able to triple the size of their warpgate during an alert.
Other example: A faction leader may call in a special construction base via the map as a forward point that is visible for all players on all factions.
Bolt action infiltrators are a mixed bag for me. On one hand it feels like how the fight will go is often no longer based on my skill. Either they hit the headshot or they don't and I kill them. Their cloak makes them slippery so the really good bolt action rifles will use cover to pop in and out which is fine but the problem is exasperated by the client-side nature of the game. Client-side is something that infuriates me to no end even on non-infiltrators. A fight between a high ping and low ping will be determined often by who peeks who. The cloak therefore acts as a way to abuse the fundamental net code of the game.
But I despise semi-auto snipers far more than Bolt action snipers. Unlike with Bolt actions there is no skill expression excuse of any kind. Just click on the body and win.
I think the best solution is to circumvent how the cloak interacts with the client-side nature of the game by making it less frustrating to be on the receiving end. Simply increase the time It takes to recloak and decloak by around or up to half a second. Depending on the weapon you have equipped the longer it takes to fully decloak and recloak. Minimal for pistol side arms, longer for large weapons like sniper rifles woth smgs inbetween.
Cloaking is the only thing that's infuriating at times. I just hate people being able to disappear on a point, hide and attack. More so with mountain snipers.
That's it. Everything else doesn't seem like a big deal. Assuming I'm not forgetting something.
Maybe a tool instead of a personal GSD ability, you only ever need to use GSD once or twice, never consistently like every other ability. It would give stalker infils a tactical buff, and if they're caught while going through, they can't cloak because of the GSD field. And then maybe a hacking tool in order to hack vehicles, that would take that same GSD tool slot.
It could replace the recon tools.
if you nerf anything you may lose that player base.. the same happend with my friends and tanks.. what you want is as many different wapons as possible.. it just makes more fun.. and yes maybe its is a bit unfair sometimes but than find an other way around that..
Thats true. You should always buff as opposed to nerf. They should look to add other ways of countering infiltrators. Give engineers a darklight they can deploy instead of turrets that reveals in a small AOE.
Maybe you could aim it and focus it in to reveal people people at long range in a progressively smaller radius.
If you die with it on it should stay on. Maybe you could switch between stationary AOE and aiming modes or have them be separate items.
Idk if spitifies can shoot at darklight revealed infils but they should, to allow synergy between engineers. Could work together to set up a killzone or just making certain areas even more dangerous to pass through.
Yeah. Someone please respond.
I was on yesterday n ran into another person that uses a mic, very cool
It was a big armor fight, both of us w our repair sundies, as other ppl fought to take the base
The fight started to slow down around a mountain, neither side would budge much anymore
So a base was built, and an infil decided to make it his home. Well the guy was very much not happy, getting angry about an implant they said the class shouldnt be able to have
Then the rest of the time was him trying to locate and take the infil out, he called something else out about the infil but I cant remember
The reason I talk about the infil through this person is the same reason I told him to just jump into a AV turret w me (which he did and it was a much better experience)
There's not point in fighting them, in fights where there is only a few ppl there, pretty much the only way your allowed to play is if you go infil yourself. But you'll obviously be outmatched by the person who does nothing but plays the class, your chances are much much better but at that point your forced to play _their_ game
The reason I dont have an angered hatred toward them is because I just dont put myself through that, I just leave lol
I honestly think that's the best way to fight it because I know they'll just be there completely alone w the mind numbing experience of watching the capture bar fill
And when they finally cap enough bases, or just about cut off connection to others, an outfit directs a squad from the platoon there and just rolls over them till they're back a few bases and right back to sitting alone x'D
As for the bolt action CQC, I agree w Cyrious. It's a pretty big concerned but on a handful of ppl do it right
And the few times I do die to it, the infil falls right after since he reveals himself for it
My only actual gripe w the class is when I die to a sniper off somewhere sitting in a corner
Even that only goes as far as me saying "ofc there's a camper there" and I remind myself to be in a vehicle when outdoors lol
The biggest problem with cloak is severside. It doesn't matter how you split them into two different classes as long as you have cloak you'll continue to get these fast kills.
The recon sounds interesting.
A special ability to mark Q spotted enemies for longer and for allies in a wider area and you got something that is actually valuable to the team.
Hell, a buddy of mine and me ran around as engineers with the Masthead and with a Harasser to get around for a while.
The Masthead is tons of fun and the rechambering sounds like the casing of a 30mm hitting the ground.
You have limited AA and AV capability and if you can land a shot with the slow moving bullet even one hit headshot potential.
We mostly sat in the hills near a fight and passed on intel aswell as harassing the opposing team on long range.
For me… I think the infil is fine the way it is, BUT!!! If I had my way. I would make one change and one change only. I would let them keep the “cloak” but I would make it a way more visible when moving no matter what cloak ability used. You want new players… I’m fairly new, I’m two years in. But to me it was the infil that was cloaked running around farming me. It was not fun…. If I was a quitter the infil cloaked would be the reason I’d quit. Not to mention those who play infil… most are so good at it. The challenge of mastering that class. By nurffing the cloak while moving helps new players see them better, and give the older players a-little shake. Make them work harder or remaster the class. Just my thoughts.
We need Planetside 3 with better engine that's all. We are still playing 2012 game and having optimisation problems with gaming laptops....
Id rather play PS2 now that it finally somewhat works rather than getting PS3 and having out PC's crap out on us all over again.
Planetside 3 might be awesome, but not like "buy a 4090rtx to play this" awesome.
Gaming laptops......that term should be considered an oxymoron.
@@Laz1287 Not everyone lives with their parents while studiyng college. So Laptop is a need.
@@rederickfroders1978 Planetside 2 is made on Forgelight game engine and it is not the best out there but still was built for mmo games. There are lots of good game engines that runs and looks much better. They are easier to build the game as well. When ps2 was launched normal type computers could run it well but through time due to lack of optimisation with updates and old engine that spec requirement has increased and they need to work on that.
Honestly your suggestions about new classes are quite refreshing.. We really could go full sci fi on this, new classes could range from Melee Specialists/samurai that have a huge shield and armor, we could have a Drone Specialist that has several types of drones for kamikazi, lockdown, covering fire, even new types of deployable turrets, drones that latch to your shoulder and provide targeting and even fire at enemies.
To expand on this, I really wish we could have a more interesting construction system where you could build robots, like a red alert rts system, you use cortium to build and upkeep these semi-autonomous fighting droids, semi because they need a operator back at their base guiding them, it could work like this, you have a remote controlled drone that works as a squad leader that you can either remote control or give simple commands to and they have 4 to 10 droids tethered to them, these are mostly, for good reason, cannon fodder, but while remotely controlled they can capture points, their arsenal is limited, they can be given simple orders to track visible targets, follow, defend a place.
And these are just the basic droid stuff, if implemented this AI system could do lots of stuff, we could have semi-autonomous vehicles that you can give orders to call to your location, if they have a gun they could have a "sentinel" mode activated where they can provide covering fire, useful for your scout class to flee pursuers.
Back on robotics for constructions, we could have a new type of tank/vehicle that's basically a robot, a bit inferior to lightening tanks that can roam around your territory or be told to roam around certain areas, or remote controlled, they could have anti-air weapons, rocket launchers and a light machine-gun, or have versions of these vehicles that can lay mines on command/taking from the cortium within the silo to build, deploy a huge scanner, deploy a drone swarm, maybe even work as a SAM where you feed it coordinates to launch mortar shells at. I have seen simpler milsims with cool systems such as the SS13 Colonial Marines and people get quite good at it.
maybe something you could customize these robotic vehicels be multirole, but these have high cortium upkeep so you need to be constantly getting more.
I mean, these are simpler than the "bastion fleet carriers", the construction robotics could be used to ease some of the weak points of construction and make it a lot more alluring to players, especially not very skilled ones, or people like me that would like to migrate from the power knife infil role for a while.
The construction robots should require a whole building to function, like a control room, to control the droids and a droid factory with options for auto vehicles and droids of every kind.
This would change the dynamic of the game quite a lot! and in my view at least, doesn't look so unbalanced, since they're limited by a lot of factors, cortium production and upkeep, if they lose their cortium source or control room they could shut down, or even go rogue.
We could even implement a sort of hacking system to make them self-destruct or switch sides, maybe a skill from the drone specialist/scout class to be able to remotely hack stuff, scramble targeting of vehicles, use emp grenades to shut down robots or vehicles for a few minutes
There is potential for more Real Time Strategy in this game. And the control room could become a lot more central to the game, you could upgrade the control room to help locate new cortium sources, employ a sensor around your base to locate enemies that aren't cloaked, and of course, give orders to droids and auto vehicles.
I am a new player, level 21 playing on PS5. I dont think I've encountered any CQC bolters. However, I do not know how to handle the SMG infiltrators and it's frustrating. It feels like they pop up and I'm dead in a second. I see them maybe 50% of the time but Im not good enough to react in time.
On the other hand, I love playing medium to long range sniper infiltrator. Im just using the stock Vanu sniper fwiw. Havent decided if im going to stick with the game long enough to put money into it.
I think infiltrators are too focussed on killing enemies in PS2 as it stands. They should be for, well, infiltration. Less focus on killing people and more focus on hackingand destabilizing bases while avoiding detection. Problem is that there arent enough systems in bases of which Infiltrators can really interact with. Planetside 1 had alot of stuff for Infiltrators to do, maybe too much even, but PS2 has almost nothing.
Sniper players are fine, but they shouldnt have all the cloaking benefits.
That said, I dont get angry about infiltrators killing me. I expect to die alot in this game. Especially as an Engie main. But yeah, balance is a problem.
Breaking up the class sounds like a good idea.
Muzzle velocity : 100 - 200 muzzle velocity reduction would make a requirement from players to play around bullet drop as well instead only tracking targets movement. I remember when I bought with my hard earned certs a M77-B + 12x Scope and hitting targets near it's maximum effective range. Counteracting both player's movement and bullet drop. RAMS .50M with its 700 muzzle made sniping trivial.
Doubling chamber time : Might seem too harsh but that would make chamber times around 2s - 3s which is still something that infiltrators can work with + it would make Critical Chain implant mandatory for chain sniping.
ScopeIn time : Yea, this hidden stat (excluding NSO weapons, funny enough that their scope in time is higher) makes quickscoping quite forgiving, leaving plenty of milliseconds to aim for the head.
Straight-Pull : This makes a failed headshots slightli less punishing and followup bodyshots are easier. Only gripe I have with this is it has no negative side to it. Easy pick of a attachement. Double the reload time or something.
AlfaDamage bodyshots : My biggest problem with bolting might be 650-700 base damage. A failed headshot(most likely to be a bodyshot) is still incredibly potent, eating up one medkit and disabling target's shiel up to 6-10s. Thats absurd. Trust me if I tell you that you will get plenty of certs + being useful to your squadmates for literally no effort just by aiming at bodies.
Solution that I would propose for this would be reduction for all snipers (except NSX Daimyo) damage by 20-30% while simultaneously raising their headshot multiplier to 2.5x. Keeping oneshot-headshot potential while taking an edge from bodytaps.
+ if the final base damage would be slightly below 500, it would make hip-shot+quick-knife not a guaranteed kill, forcing the infiltrator to use a sidearm.
Deepcloack Bug Fix : This applies for every infill, but I am sick that its still in the game. For those who dont know, while your deepcloack implant is active, your declocking will become practicaly instant (I think it's just 1 frame delay). Compounded with server lag you will get one tapped before even seeing the enemy.
Just clarify, sniping (both semi and bolting) in this game is easy. And if anyone says otherwise, they know it and just want to keep this Farmingside2 way of play alive. To those I want to tell just one thing.
Play engineer anti-material sniper.
This made me fall in love with sniping again. No way to fall back on your cloak, requiring from you a sharp and quick aim. I have never felt more joy in this game out sniping a cloaked infills, or successfuly chaining 1v3 heavies in a row while being in close-quarters, knowing one mistake would resolve in death.
Literally never have I thought Infiltrator was OP- If anything, I'd argue the opposite, save for when they're in the proper hands. I can't play Infiltrator for the life of me, and I applaud people who can. The only thing that I think needs tweaking is how they get their recon done, to make them a bit more team-based, instead of being so focused entirely on solo-sneaking
Come to Cobalt and you will know why Cloak is busted and should get a change or hard nerf, I know most ppl dont like the idea, but Id rather see Cloak being smth, that requires ppl to be proactive or smth that is a reward for a kill, so you can reposition, like the nightmare implant. For example Stalkers shouldnt be able to sit forever in a corner, especially since nanoweave nerf, they can easily kill you very fast especially on tr with KCAP ammo. We have some laggy Stalker mains who basically onetap you, before you can take a medkit, even as heavy. The worse server perfomance doesnt help it either. Make Stalkers hold a tool in their hand for example, they could still be annoying, but they would need to play more cautious and ppl would have more time to react, when they hear them uncloak. Hunter cloak could be smth, that makes you like 12 seconds or longer invisible, after you kill someone. Also the motion tools should get nerfed, ping slower or have reduced radius by a lot, every fight has at least one cloaker, doesnt matter the size. You are either forced to take sensor shield or everyone knows where you come from, its a free version of a wallhack. For new players playing the cloaker class is probably fun, as many of them tend to sit in mountains and just snipe down on ppl, but facing vets that play cloak is very annoying and frustrating for them.
As someone whos been training about a dozen new players, just the fact that they appear and can dissapear before a natural human reaction time really turns people away. Which really shouldn't be all that complicated of a fix.
More or longer range darklights, maybe tools or placables?
Something a lot easier from a development perspective is just increasing the time between cloak/uncloaks. Add a few more milliseconds before you can shoot after uncloaking even.
This would tone down the pop in effect and still allow infils to remain infils.
It's the SMG infils that do it for me. Just materializing in front of you with their sights already lined up on your head and firing before they've even actually decloaked on the player's screen. Infil spam in general is bad enough that it's made several friends of mine quit the game because they got so tired of dealing with invisible turbosweats abusing bad netcode. What was said about their cloak being a separate item that they need to equip in their hands to be able to go invis would be the quickest way to bring them into line. They use the cloak to get into position, then have to play by the same rules as everyone else instead of being able to, as stated, abuse the game's netcode to be impossible to see while racking up kills.
I love your idea of a new class that would give more life into the game... only thing I withe change is that when popping out of cloak you're only doing day 75% of the damage for like 1/2 a sec or something... so you can freely move around as an infil but there is a cost to dropping your cloak and shooting
Infiltrator class can stay, just remove cloak. Simple. They remove everything else in the game that is op…
I think most of the players that says they really don't have problems with infil/bolt action are players that mostly play during the peak hours (US time) and not into the late night. During peak hours, in the mist of the chaos, you are most likely not to have cqc bolters problem. BUT during late night or early morning, when the players from the other side of the globe are on, but not many players are on in total numbers, you will run into the same few good players that'll kill you over and over in cqc with the bolter.
1:50 I don't know how they are now since I left during the construction update. But I never found cloakers to be "OP" they can annoy the living hell out of you but if you played as a cloaker for awhile you tended to learn how they operated which made countering them pretty easy or decent. That said fighting a legendary cqc sniper was straight up misery for the receiving end. Props to them for honing such a difficult skill.
When I play Infiltrator, I do recon stuff. I come up to buildings and drop the motion sensor. I rarely shoot at enemies and actually prefer to avoid combat (I know, crazy). The drone sounds good and I use stalker armor so I can station myself someplace and spot enemies and such. I would want the class for recon to not have the sniper, but load it up with more intel gathering items. Perhaps a sniper gun that doesn't kill someone, but attaches a tracking dart to them for x seconds.
Basically, I'd like it to be 3 classes. Intel, Hacker and Sniper.
the problem I've always found with bolter infiltrators is, due to latency, they fire before fully de-cloaking on my end meaning I usually end up dead or so severely on the back foot that I might as well be dead.
Idea:
Recon retains infiltrator primary weapon slot options + shotgun perhaps
new Infiltrator - New primary weapon class: Pistol conversion kit - improves dmg drop a little, and recoil for your equiped secondary . Ads option to mount primary weapons attachments (foward grip, you could use suppressor for commissioner etc.)
- One model required for all sidearms, if done well, type of pistol housed inside would not be problem to recognise
Every current class has an obvious role, and are viable in all circumstances. I feel splitting one class in to recon, sniper, and infil would make all of them too niche tbh.
I really don't think the fact that cqc cloaker is used by few people is a good reason for it to not be nerfed. An op loadout is still an op loadout. Quite the opposite that would be more of a reason to nerf it, as very little people are benefitting from said op loadout.
I don't think I would play the "severely crippled at close range" class though. Snipers are by themselves a lot. Maybe instead of a recon ability, they have an ability that makes them run faster so they might be able to outrun anything that isn't a vehicle or light assault. Maybe even a short-range teleport if they could code that in, something in the 20-40 meter maximum range.
I definitely like your idea of seperating the cloak and sniper/scout rifles. Tho i am gonna miss my recon darts on my cqc smg loadout if this goes through.
I'm an NSO player and we don't have a good cloak and its not nearly as fun to play bolter CQC or SMG infil. 😢
The problem i think is not the infiltrators but the server lag, countless times i've been shot by a fully cloaked infiltrator. This is caused by either lag from servers, really high ping from the other player, or low tickrate. I don't think we should overly complicate the classes by making a new one. How about scope glint for infiltrators? They did this in Battlefield, if you use a powerful scope it glints at the enemy when you stand in a particular place for any length of time. Then maybe they can remove the death cam cause i hate that thing.
I've learned to abuse the death cam - angry players are so predictable. Reposition and you can ambush them again - or run away.
for me personally smg infil kinda more annoying than cqc bolter, u can kill everything, everyone if they play with full potential. Infil should stay like what they are right now, the only thing i may wanna change about infil bolter is they can't scope when in cloak.
So I do want to offer some criticism on the format. While I like these videos and these thought practices, I think we could possibly make better use of the discord up to and including pulling in community voices in kind of a podcast format. I could look at setting up the discussion bridge facilitate this sort of discourse if we want to look at that for future episodes
-zip
So Iam a veteran from a game called Foxhole and have quite a bit of experience in planetside 2. I did bring around 15 people from Foxhole to Planetside2 and all of them are new players. All of them say its an absolute shit feeling to be killed by Infiltrators that go on and off screen visible. I think the smg Infiltrators are the most annoying thing change my mind. Oh and btw most of my friends all stopped playing with the simple reason that Infiltrators are pain to fight against... With other classes you are atleast able to see them, and if you die its simply on you. A Infiltrator that wants to kill you will kill you
I have to admit that I do not have a major problem with infils, but I never play at prime time when I hear it can get really bad. Very rarely do I come across a close range bolter user who is a major threat, and usually infils get me when I am engaging someone else, which is frustrating but fine. Snipers on the hills or in Hossin trees are a minor annoyance. I did like a suggestion by Camikaze recently which suggested infils cannot aim down sights while cloaked.
What I really do have an issue with is Infil recon tools - the power of them is obviously balanced as everyone can use them, but it inhibits tactics as if you try to flank an aware enemy then they know about it already. It massively gives veterans an advantage as they have trained themselves to glance at the minimap every few seconds, allowing us to aim at doorways, prefire and lay traps with C4 and the like. If I had my way I would pull all recon tools out of the game, bar spotting which would simply place a static icon at the point where the player was on the minimap to those players near the spotter.
I like your idea of splitting the classes up.
Another thought that if things were to remain the same disallowing short/medium range scopes on bolt actions and removing the hip fire cross hair could be a simple solution.
Scout rifles...though. there could be an argument for disallowing infils to use them or make it an ASP upgrade requiring 2 or 3 points making the climb to that more difficult with probably less players overall using the weapon.
Now honestly I'm less bothered by infils than most people with the exception of cqc blackhand or smg infils. I'm still less bothered overall because not a ton of people are good at infils of any playstyle.
Like counter sniping scout and bolt action infils is very easy and when i come across some as good or better than me I find it a fun challenge of dangerous peekaboo lol.
I take bigger issue with other features of the game, like maxes existing and air to ground for ESFs being too strong even after the nerf. My biggest pet peeve was the removal of the ANT cloak. I rarely saw battle ANTS using it before the removal and now we can't avoid liberators and ESFs while farming even with mounted weapons.
CQC bolting is uninteractive to play against but it is somewhat alleviated by PS2 being a team game with medics and other stuff. Cloakers with snipers would be really cancer if open field infantry fights existed, but those do not exist because if there is an open field fight happening you just pull a vehicle which infs are useless against.
2 or 3 power knife infils on Cobalt were the most annoying infils in the game. Somehow they could kill you while still cloaked. Latency or smt I believe. But they were running through crowd like piss through snow. Even when everyone knew one of them is here and were looking exactly for him. I saw him coming my way and still couldn't kill him in nano cloak before I die and only then I saw him uncloak and run the animation. Very strange experience.
The difference between knife infils and bolters are that knife infils actually have to close the distance to kill you. Bolters do not put themselves at risk to get instant kills.
@@JohnFromAccounting In my experience it's not hard to snipe a sniper. So I see why bolters might provoke rage, but not more then any other skilled opponent. At least for me. While this knife dudes were annoying as hell coz none could do anything to them. I still think the were exploiting something or using some net-filters or other hacks... but reddit and discord discussions ended up with typical: "Were they flying? No? Then it's not hackers!" xD Anyway - those infils were the worst and the only real annoying interactions that made me relocate to another hex.
The SMG infils drive me more nuts than the bolters.
for me, more annoying than the CQC bolters, more annoying than the cloak is the damn detection devices making Sensor Shield borderline mandatory hogging up an implant slot.
IMHO it'd be much better if these huge AOE detection devices were instead replaced with placeable tripwires which would cause an enemy to be spotted for 10 seconds if they walk through it.
Infils are why I quit playing. They simply have way too many tools all the while being almost invisible. Give infils a drawback (cause health/dmg taken simply aint it). 1 sec cooldown before a weapon can be fired once leaving cloak. Cant ADS down cloak, etc. Anything other than what they are now may bring some of the community back.
Love the idea of making a different class and introducing new toys like the drone, but this might be too much.
Instead integrate the new abilities and make them restrict certain weapons (just like stalker cloak does)
So it makes you choose between a recon loadout (very helpful, sniper/scout access, new stuff, no cloak) and the good ol' cloaky boy but this time limited to CQC only.
Also I see suggested no aim down sights allowed when cloaked (that could help too, since decloaking then aiming would take precious time that would help equal clientside abuse)
*whispers*((PD: also remove a merely 100hp from the HA overshield and the game fixes itself))
Remove CQC bolters and make firing a weapon disable your ability to cloak for 4 seconds. CQC bolter that one tap you before they even render on your screen is something that should have been removed years ago. Temporarily disabling the ability to recloak would remove infiltrators ability to 1v20 and make infiltrators more reliant on kill, hide, recloak, repeat instead of pop into existence, kill, cloak, repeat. Those two changes alone would make be a massive improvement to the state of the game for infantry combat.
I'm a fan of the auto-scout-rifles, I know and love my NSO BAR-A50
With so many possible playstyles on infiltrator all able to be happening at once it makes sense to split them up a little more
I'm also of the opinion that the class based system is kind of archaic, and definitely enjoy the freeform loadout building systems in other games waaaaay more
But that is definitely like a 5,000,000 hours balancing operation so I'm all for more classes instead
The easy and more likely thing we could expect to actually get is to simply improve the cloak, less visible, longer duration, no sound when entering cloak but instead have the sound play when exiting cloak + impose a 2-3 second delay before you can take an action like shoot or throw grenades.
Cloak should not be a offensive tool where you pop out in someones face and have an advantage, it should be a positioning and mind game tool. You are in one location shooting stuff, someone goes for you, you cloak and move and since there is no sound when you enter cloak unless you did it in view they have no idea if you are just hiding for cover or literally went running for the hills.
Personally I dislike all types of in-your-face cloaked infiltrators because it does not matter all that much what they are using, even pistols have super low TTK with headshots and SMGs might not even need to ADS so its both a "surprise you are now at half health and dead in 0.5 seconds" and a very agile target strafing/ducking around the place.
If we can dream though I do think splitting the class into two would be a good idea both for balance and extra content but more/new classes just in general would be a great idea for the game. I know several years ago there were some community talk about a more melee focused class for example, being somewhat of a medieval knight in concept having a shield(kinda like Aegis shield for NC MAX) and above average health/shields but would be limited in ranged weapons which could be interesting but probably a nightmare to balance.
I think Engineer is another class aside from Infiltrator that the game would benefit from being split into two classes, one would be something like "Vehicle Operator/Mechanic" which is what most people currently use Engineer as so it would not be too different from now but the new class that would probably keep the "Combat Engineer" title would have a less efficient repair tool that in turn can construct a variety of deployables like the small cover shields, turrets(that other people can use too), probably some intel stuff like the Infiltrator motion sensor and so on.
Basically the new Engineer would be Construction Small Edition, base building within dev bases... or outside if someone really wanted so more or less all deployables we have now like cover shields, small sky shields, motion sensor, turrets + new variants of these for example maybe different shaped cover shields, AA turret, small jump pads. All the gadgets. Paid for with NANITES to limit spam but also have the option to charge the construction tool with Cortium so if you run out of Nanites there is always the option of visiting a Silo and steal some of theirs(even enemy factions?!).
Infiltrator has a high skill floor. It feels like I delete way more bolt babies, shimmers who think they're invisible, and bad uncloaking decisions than I get terrorized by them. You need good game sense, aim, and decision-making to use the very limited non-invisibility effectively to make up for your low HP. You need to not run into a 1v1 unprepared and die. And to execute a good ambush, so the heavies don't just turn around and head click you. And then, to escape the six players you just aggroed. In comparison, light assaults can camp a roof and not deal with the cloak - they just peek and shoot the bad guys. It took me years before I got gud enough to play infi effectively.
People blame the class when a lot of the time they should blame the player. That same 3.0 K/D player as heavy will still dink you in the head -- except now it's the overshield that's OP. Should that player pull medic, they'd dink you in the head too.
To people who complain about cloaker being OP... try it! If it's so good then surely you will have lots of multikill or killstreak clips to share in no time. Or, you might realize that it has a learning curve and is very strong in some situations and weak in others.
CQC Bolters and SMG infils aren't much of a problem as experienced players know they are there and can react. But when you are sniped from 100m away with no way to know that there was a sniper there, that's an issue.
The CQC bolters are really frustrating to play against but like you said, you see them so rarely it's hardly a blip
BRO Bs in infantry wars , inf v inf on hosson bases, every top team filled their cqc ers with top bolters you were allowed 2 per team. .they always got most kills
Rubbish. Bolters are everywhere. It's one of the most common infil playstyles because it is so easy to do.
Infil and LA are the main class that can flank/go in back the line properly depending on the facility. This is the uniqueness of ps2. People complaining are just regular fps player who don’t want to adapt and learn. I killed a lot with them and die a lot from them.
Let everyone enjoy the game whatever the class. If you take an heavy on open field and die to a sniper, your decision is the issue and not the enemy player class or game.
You need to learn to take safe route when walking on the field and also to use your brain cells a bit. If you wanna play without using your head you can try other games. Stop complaining about anything when you’re the issue (skill gap)
And sorry new player but ps2 is a “grind” type game and that’s the same for every similar game
When I play Infiltrator I rarely feel vulnerable decloaking in front of a single enemy. I know that if they didn't see me first, I can kill them before they have time to react. That doesn't sit right with me.
If it took longer to fire after decloaking, everything wrong with Infiltrator could be fixed. In CQB, infils would actually need to be strategic about when they reveal themselves, rather than just going in guns blazing whenever they have a clear shot. It would also mean that long range sniping would feel more fair, because you'd at least get a chance to react before they fire. Those to me are the only real problems that make Infil overpowered. It just isn't counterable right now in a live environment
I think it’s a good idea to add another class, especially as a recon. I think it would be cool to make recon more of a movement class. Since they can’t disappear, maybe make them really nimble and fast with a grappler or some movement utility. Double jump or wall run would be awesome as well. I know I’m kinda just describing a tf2 grapple pilot but still, a movement class in a massive game like ps2 would be great. But I don’t think it’s possible performance wise. I don’t think the game servers could handle it lol.
I'd like to see them try where you can shoot without decloaking but once you pass a certain damage threshold it drains the charge for it entirely and you have to wait for it to recharge all the way before you can cloak again. So you get somewhat of a buff but also a nerf. This would allow a good player one definite kill and maybe two but now you can't just do hit and run tactics. You could also offset it by decreasing the general cloak drain and maybe kills after losing all power increases the rate at which it refills. I get the appeal of the class so i don't think a straight nerf would be good but a rework would be best
only just started the video but after dealing with infils for years, we need a better counter to invisible dudes with sniper rifles that isn't a pidly flash light
4:20 JJJ888 go get Phylactery on your engineer loadout if you plan on using mana turrets as if you're killed while on them there's a bug that will just res you every time so long as you die while on a turret or rumble seat. This way pesky cloakers don't just knock you down a peg while using your turret.
And sniper trails are huge compared to all other bullet trails - sniper nerf
And there are killcam zoom ins that show who killed you and where - sniper nerf
And EMP grenades don't disrupt abilities anymore - infil nerf
Don't say that out loud, it might point them to the real issue. Their skill isue.
id suggest that allowing them to start a timed hack on cortuim silos to take over palyer bases but it would hae to be a long timer. the personal shield defuser is a good idea.
5:10 SMG infils did actually annoy me more than sniper cqc infils as I've done it and is honestly low skill to get some decent fruit while high skill players can really wreck house on a consistent bases. They basically have a machine gun and 4 out 5 times get to shoot first from a flank position. If they're a decent shot they can kill the target before they have any time to react thanks to latency being a thing. Also since it's not a sniper they're not limited to 1 to 3 shot per attack cycle but instead can dump around 10 to 30 rounds which allows for greater room for error.
Light assault and Infiltrators allowing solo minded players to excel in their solo centric play is a weight on this games neck and has been since launch.
Heavies are a menace in short range, where 80% of the engagements take place.
Infiltrators are a menace everywhere. Best in the game long range infantry weapons, best mid range weapons (scouts), access to arguably most potent CQC weapon class - SMGs. Highest DPS SMGs can still be a death sentence even to a good Heavy who got jumped, assuming equal skill.
But more importantly, Infiltrators absolutely demolish any semblance of long range combat. Huge field battles become skirmishes for Infiltrators, long range weaponry on any other class can't compete with the combined potential of Infiltrator tailored weapons and the cloak.
I can’t even get mad at those cracked CQC bolter infils. I’m more impressed than anything when one of them starts destroying me. SMG infils on the other hand….