D&D - I Stand Corrected... Again - 2024 ORCS
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- D&D - I Stand Corrected... Again - 2024 ORCS. I was swiftly corrected on my false assumption that there are no ORCS like this in D&D. I really appreciate y'all correcting me and I love the interactions we have. Know that my intent is to be a positive voice in the D&D and TTRPG Community. I can definitely improve as a DM and a youtuber. Clearly, I need to read more. THANK YOU for being here!
Here is the original video, in which I made a major false assumption: • D&D - What's with 2024...
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to make matters worse, Forgotten Realms also has both gray orcs and mountain orcs. if I remember right, one kind is native to the realms and pillage because the gods denied them a home, and the other are an invasive species from another world who pillage because they're cosmic predators. and then there's the Orogs...
They're both invasive, they were just brought in by different powers (mountain by the gods, grey by mortals trying to do the same thing)
for sure
If you don't mind, I'd like to share how I run orcs in case it might give you some ideas. I play them with a strong emphasis of warrior's honor and ancestor worship. 90% of the time when you meet an orc, they're going to attack you. However, if you prove yourself strong or if you fight well in battle (and maybe kill a few orcs), then they'll respect you as a warrior and be willing to talk. They're also constantly trying to achieve glory because they want to match the great deeds of their father's fathers. They're still mostly antagonistic, but there are ways for players to talk to them. I find it's a good middle ground of still keeping orcs as an evil race for players to battle, while also showing that they' can be negotiated with under the correct circumstances. Orcs are one of my favourite monsters, and it sounds like you have a lot of fun running them. So hopefully this helps, and don't worry about the discourse. Run them however you want and just ignore the Mexican sterotyping.
Yes! I love this! I am totally going to use your ideas. Thank you for taking the time to share!
I really like this idea. Thanks for sharing!
I love this. I just had your orc changes video show in my feed and decided to watch both 2024 changes videos and the “I stand corrected” videos that came after them, and honestly you seem like such a cool dm! Looking forward to seeing more of your content
Wow! Thank you so much! See you soon
Love this! I am a returning DM - having played a lot when I was in my teens and early twenties and now running a Homebrew campaign and its wonderful to finally find a humble take on DMing from a new DM perspective. I like the flavour of different branches of Orcs - some easily led by corrupt forces and others who have developed a way to flourish alongside civilised society - It actually opens up a new possibility of having players who have captured corrupted branch Orcs being able to explore reintegrating them into society and showing them a different way.
Nice! I'd love an orc reintegration campaign! We need more mustache orcs! Also, thank you for visiting!
Whenever a creature-type becomes a player character it humanizes the creature
((and I'm okay with that)), in my hb world Orcs, Elves, Dwarfs, Human are both cultures and ancestries. And each person has an element that acts like a zodiac sign and a roleplay tool of "how would this person act" wubrg a sunsign and a moonsign very mtg alignment
It would have been better to put humans and other player races as monsters rather than remove orcs fro the monster manual. Besides, what about goblns? Goblins are people too
Great words from Mike Shea ie Sly Flourish (paraphrased):
Don’t let a single company affect your enjoyment of your hobby!
You control your own game, printed books are best suggestions
Wonderfully said! I enjoy the printed suggestions for the most part.
To be clear: the new orcs, while not unprecedented, are following the modern trend. There are a confluence of factors that made the orc changes necessary, though they all wrap their way around back to WotC trying to be less problematic in appealing to their broad playerbase.
The first and most obvious problem is this: historically, in the game manuals, Orcs were an "Always Evil" monster race of brutish slavers who hate all living things (but elves especially) and breed with anything. To quote the AD&D 1E Monster Manual, "Half-Orcs: As orcs will breed with anything, there are any number of unsavory mongrels with orcish blood, particularly orc-goblins, orc-hobgoblins, and orc-humans. Orcs cannot cross-breed with elves. Half-orcs tend to favor the orcish strain heavily, so such sorts are basically orcs although they can sometimes (10%) pass themselves off as true creatures of their other stock (goblins, hobgoblins, humans, etc.)" As a DM, I don't mind players having dark backstories for their characters, but that's their choice. With Half-Orc, it was kind of the setting default that you or your parents were the product of rhymes-with-grape.
Secondly, the playerbase wanted the change. If you google half-orc and take a look at the images, you'll notice that the artwork all trends closer and closer to the clearly-not-human-but-very-humanlike. It is these half-orcs that are the new orcs, because in 5E 2024 the half-races were removed as a distinct species (Half-Elves and Half-Orcs) with the choice of mixed-parentage becoming a non-mechanical thing (stats-wise, you're an Orc or an Elf or a Human... or even Dwarf, Halfling, etc, regardless of only having one parent of that species).
But ultimately, these are changes to the base product (5E D&D). They are intended to impose as few restrictions on the players/DMs as necessary, but any table can go right along disregarding all the changes if that is what they want to do.
Well said!
Roll for Combat creator did point in one vid that during early days of Warcraft not alot of people played Orcs. When Warcraft started changing the art and lore then more people started playing them. And more human orcs then started filtering back into D&D.
NOw. zzzz.zzz. Hum what. Sorry old fart here. Story time
Back in 1E if 10% could pass as human, what happen to the other 90%. One my solutions was they formed their own tribes of "orcs". My players were upset when they try to ambush an orc tribe and the guard did not go down in one hit.
After game play, I reveal they were really ugly half orcs who had PC Classes.
Old fart gripe..... "If they didn't let people play monster races, this wouldn't be a thing." zzzz. Now go outside and play. and rake the lawn. zzzz.
@@RottenRogerDM Indeed. This was basically set in motion when players could play monster races. A pox on the Complete Book of Humanoids! And the Player's Option line, while we're at it.
They failed. Sugar coating and wussifying races and changing monsters into not monsters are wholly unnecessary and disgusting
Definetly love the diversity of art style in different books. I do have preference for some of them of course, but that way I can choose the style I prefer to reference in my game.
100% makes sense
Anything is possible! A DM can and should change things to fit their groups play style and world feel.
Most books like ones from dnd, have things that the creators of the game think are interesting. And if anything that is just the TYPICAL showing of a thing.
Very good point! For example, in the game with my 9 year old, I won't allow or portray really evil or depraved acts.
Thank you i didnt know this either. I still dont like it because its unnecessarily convoluted to me. Its cool to have monsters that carry gold and use weapons like human soldiers but you dont feel bad about fighting. Players can decide what to do without wondering if its good or bad. Theres nothing wrong with fighting monsters. Thats more important to me than the otherwise interesting lore about different orcs.
I think a thing from this video, the first video and the first commentor is that these "changes" aren't changes. They're just additive ways to run orcs or run those types of races. Having a civilised/humanised [insert often non-civilised (goblins, orcs)] doesn't take away from the fact that there can be these less civilised/humanised versions of those creatures
Like in real life - there are still many active non civilised cultures (more tribal and not interacting with the modern world as much).
This also applies to "evil/good". Having the idea be that there are evil/good humans. There can be room for good/evil orcs or goblins or drows etc.
The addition of civilisation or goodness does not take away from the non civilisation or badness. But instead of applying civilisation or good/evil to races, you can instead think of "Why are these set of orcs bad? Is it because of the system that they are raised/interact in? Is it because if you are a good orc you are considered weak and then you are thrown out by yourself? And a lone orc is a dead orc in your setting because ultimately they're socialites like humans and hunt in packs and have gathering roles? Is there a rival orc band who is more civilised more good, focus more on getting technology and studying magic to better each other? How do they contrast each other and interact with each other? What about religions?"
Wow! All very good points, thank you for sharing!
That's correct up until a point. WoTC went beyond that, which is why the book/s actively lecture you on the 'correct' way to play. It's not just an open option for players.
@InhabitantOfOddworld 🤔
good orcs that aid the party can be seen as early as G1 Steading of the Hill Giant Chief and in Forgotten Realms the Ondonti appeared in the Ruins of Zhentil Keep boxed set and are pacifists. There is a lot of older prescidence. I personally like to run my Orcs in FR like your Many arrows orcs and as more of a might makes right but its more of a culture vs nature thing.
Nice! Well worded! Thank you for the deeper background! I always like seeing your comments.
I remember Orc slaves in G1. But not good orcs. But that has been many rations of beef, and Jim Bean. Got a page number so I can check my old G1.
For Noob Daddy look at the Yawning Portal adventure book.
The Ondonti, near no one seems to remember them.
The Lore on Orcs keep changing between editions and sometimes between adventure path/modules.
As a new DM, yes use the print written stuff. It takes a heavy load off your shoulders. I been DMing since 1980 and am primary and Adventure League DM. (Adventure League is WOTC open campaign is the best way to call it.)
Google is great if you know the key words and hit the better sites.
Great, thank you! I'd love to hear more of your perspective as an adventure league dm!
@@Noob_DnD_Dad The bad thing about Adventure league (AL) is I am playing in someone else homebrew. And subject to random changes in rules about what content is allowed. Generally anything official WOTC product minus the campaign books like Eberron. Good thing about AL see next comment.
Why I Like Adventure League?
1. The module or adventure is not my baby. I paid cash for it. I have no blood, no sweat, or no tears in creating this.
2. If the adventure is bad, I can totally blame the writer.
3. Having pcs break the adventure is not my problem.
4. I can generally find a group to join.
5.Theses are not my homebrew rules, blame WOTC for the current rules and guidelines.
6. Lots of Cheap content.
7. Game stores/cons love you if you DM it.
Nice! Lots of positives
Wotc genocided orcs
🫢😱oof! They became what they thought they were fighting!