Synology NVMe SSD Pools - I Am ANNOYED About It
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
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Good news for anyone who has been following the recent reveal of Synology enabling M.2 NVMe SSDs as Storage Pools (covered previously here on NASCompares in this article) as it appears that the new feature is active on the Synology DS923+ NAS (released Nov 16th 2022). A recent update in DSM that, at this time, appears to ONLY be available for the DS923+ has allowed the two M.2 2280 NVMe SSD bays that were traditionally ONLY for caching to now be usable for storage pools. Full testing of this (as well as further updates to this article) will arrive very soon here and on youtube, but for now let’s discuss the M.2 NVMe Bays that you can use (bandwidth/speed), as well as the process of using the m.2 NVMe SSDs as Pools in the Synology DSM Storage Manager.
Note - Article Updated with information on M.2 NVMe SSD Compatibility, whether you can boot DSM from the M.2 NVMe SSDs and an update on the architecture of the PCIe Gen and Speed of the bays on the DS923+ NAS.
Video Chapters
00:00 - Wakey Wakey
00:39 - The Start
00:58 - I would Never normally do a reaction and/or negative video
01:38 - I like the Synology DS923+ NAS, BUT...
02:26 - Disclaimer about the time of recording
03:10 - M.2 NVMe SSD Storage Pool Support and Synology on the face of it
03:46 - Other Brands Provide M.2 NVMe SSD Bays for Storage Pools for years
04:42 - ONLY Synology M.2 NVMe SSDs Support M.2 SSD Storage Pools. Why is this SPECIFICALLY Annoying
06:19 - In Synology's Defence
06:48 - M.2 NVMe SSD PCIe Generation Support on the DS923+ NAS
09:12 - ONLY the Synology DS923+ NAS Supports M.2 NVMe SSD Storage Pools
12:00 - Synology is normally 10/10 on Day 1 Launch of a feature
13:41 - The feature was VERY Quietly Enabled and Revealed
16:25 - The Future of M.2 NVMe SSD Storage Bays on Synology NAS Hardware
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*Note* - Apologies for the clickbaity title. I 'ummed and 'ahhed for about an hour on the title, as this is more about my own POV based on M.2 NVMe SSD support. Plus, this is a feature that will likely improve and increase in its use over time. So I will delete this video when it becomes irrelevant. Have a great week!
Given this video is still up - I take it there hasn't been any improvement on the Third Party NVMe M.2 SSD Support for Storage Pools yet?
The announcement does seem bizarre for only one product, but their requirement for their M.2 ssd's as a requirement is not. Synology is going more this route of locking down supported storage. As a result I'm going with QNAP as my new 8 bay. I have a wonderful DS1520+ which has been bulletproof but QNAP supports many more vendors for both HDD's and SSD's. They support ssd storage pools now.
Same. The DS920+ is my first NAS ever. I'm not worried about them retroactively locking down existing models (it would be a legal NIGHTMARE for them if they did). But if my next NAS ever requires *their* drives, I'm switching brands. I'm a home user/prosumer. I can understand that their highest end, large business models (think rackmount) require their hardware across the board in order to uphold their guarantees. But I'm not running a business.
Synology's software is fantastic for newcomers and novices. But once you learn how to use agnostic alternatives (for example, any other DDNS provider/Nextcloud/etc), you realize that you don't really need their services as much as you thought. Especially when you have solutions like Docker that are made to work in almost any environment.
totally agree @pefranks - I am going with either the QNAP TS-464 or maybe the Asustor AS6704T
Which QNAP are you going for?
Same for me: if Synology obliges me to buy Synology branded SSDs or HDD, I will switch to another brand for my next NAS. I should buy a new NAS in late 2023, but I want the possibility to create a SSD Volume on ANY brand of SSD !
I love the DSM features and the SHR, but not enough to pay so much more just to get "Synology branded" SSD or HDD: there is absolutely no serious reason for that (except that they want to make more money), so they will lose one client (i.e a new NAS).
The so called "compatibiity assurance" makes sense for an enterprise, not for an individual like most of us are.
Argh! 😡 So frustrating! Not withstanding I already bought a 2TB Samsung M.2 NVMe for my DS1821+ for a storage pool, what seems to be neglected is that folks like me who took up a bay for a 2TB SSD for VM’s could gain that bay back for a 14, 16, 18TB or more for much more increased storage availability on your NAS. This capability approach better get corrected or many will be persuaded to look elsewhere.
I get forcing enterprise users to buy Synology drives, but forcing prosumer devices to do so will be a self inflicted wound. Typical home users and even small businesses do not have the budgets to support that, especially in this economy and Synology should know better.
Synology’s claim to fame is giving users features otherwise unavailable with other brands. If they continue to limit adding capabilities others have had for years, it will be a very bad mistake. I’d say I’m slightly on the other side of annoyed compared to Rob and Eddie. 😤
THANK you for this review!! I had ordered a DS923+ because of the NVME storage and cancelled the order - saving me a lot of missed expectations.
Typical Synology move to be honest. I love their NASs but they are just so frustrating when they keep shooting themselves in the foot.
Have to agree with all your points, constantly holding their hardware back with bizarre software decisions.
One year later - any change on this policy from synology?
I'm just setting up my new 923+
For me the NVMe wasn't ever about storage pools, I'm more interested in them for cache and not for speed but HDD drive longevity. Also ECC RAM support is MAJOR for me. I'm still amazed that all RAM in 2022 isn't ECC. There's good reason servers generally use ECC ram. Sure it can be "slower" but RAM is so damn fast these days that's a negligible downside in real terms.
Thank you for this awesome update. I own the DS1522+ and I’ve held out on purchasing SSD’s in order to see which direction Synology goes in.
Synology missing the point about a provider role is, excellent video
I have had several synologys since 2012. Love them. Currently have a 1520+ which is great. But the way synology is going with the new dual core processors and now this... I'm building my own unraid nas and let's the 1520+ be a secondary for the next many years. Synology is on the way downhill...
I received my DS920+ today. I have no need for NVME storage pools. I'll be using the DS920+ for Audio, Video and Backup. 12/05/2022 2232
I totally agree with Robbie. It feels half baked. I'd love to see DSM running off the SSDs! I'd buy that for a dollar!
I have bad memories of the NVMe cache launch with the 2018 models, back then Synology was on DSM6 and NVMe cache did not add the improvements people expected. Everyone said: "Don't bother, waste of time, your data is at risk on cache during a power outage, worthless!" But then DSM7 came out and NVMe cache finally worked, it took everyone months to re-review it and finally change the public opinion: "Synology NVMe cache is actually pretty good." It feels like we're in that same situation, where the NVMe storage pool hardware is there, it could do it, but DSM isn't ready for it, and Synology do not have great M.2 drive options if we are forced to use their SSDs.
I have a nvme ssd pool on my 920+ (WD red) where I only install software and VM, after latest restart I get an error "not supported by current DSM version".
I don't even know how to fix this now. Any suggestion?
Amateur hour at Synology releasing the SSD storage pool feature as it is. Why cant I use my trusty Samsung Pro NVMe? And please put NVMe in Rackstation models please. I won't buy a Synology NAS until this is addressed. Also ditch the 1Gbit and add WOL support to the 10Gbit card
I just have to say: What the hell did you expect? Synology have been throwing their draconian BS left and right for a long time now, and you wait until now to be really genuinely outraged? About this? This is bloody peanuts compared to the other shit they've pulled in recent history. Still, thank you for finally taking a concrete and forceful stance on something like this. It was about time.
Thanks for this video as I truly believe it is still relevant (04/13/2023) and the confusion is yet very real, at least for me as a DS1821+ user.
For me it's totally true that M2 it's a killer app type feature because I was doubting between ds920+ with Jellyfin transcoding or ds923+ with M2 for my apps/dockers. finally I get the ds920+ because it's also a joke the Synology compatilibity for M2 as storage.
Is there such a thing as a simple one or two slot SSD nas ? Which do you suggest?
You have yourself a bloody great Christmas too! 🎄🎅🏻
@NASCompares - what options exist in the NAS space for SSD based systems?
Hmmmmmm ...... request an update on this subject;
The DS920+ has just been discontinued probably to steer buyers to the lackluster DS923+ (ex: @7:40 NVMe SSD HW is PCIe gen3x4 but is SW capped at PCIe gen3x1 ;).
So I ordered a ds1621+ for cyber Monday. When i added the 10gb card I noticed the m.2 daughter board was only a pcie 1x connector for both ssd.
If they used a non spec connector with their own pin out they couldn't possibly have more then 2 lanes per ssd... I'm guessing one lane per drive.
So it's also capped at 1GB/s?
The sad part is that this is a simple fix, skip the product SKU check. Surely this must be an easy hack to remedy, if you know what file to edit??
Aka planned-obsolescence, crippling-great hw, etc
Soooooooo now it's DS223+ or Bust (fingers-crossed ;)
For me, as my experience with IT goes, I had decided early-on that I would track stable branch of software and not at all beta. Seems to me maybe they are using consumers for beta testing? Although I’ve done testing in software, I prefer to be paid for my testing - unless it is just a cool and wanted feature. I do leave the door open for that instance.
I found out that NVMe has to be from Synology, when I already ordered some WD Red NVMe. So I manually created a Volume with them via terminal and I really hope I won’t regret it later. Do others have experience with manually created RAID 1 NVMes on Synology?
What happens if you intentionally pull 1 drive and then try and recover?
@@dfgdfg_ Didn’t test that. But I guess I can normally recover via DSM.
@@SaschaFoerster that's a bold move, I hope you're backed up 😱
I think they have limited the SSD Pools to the 923+ in a desperate attempt to save the product, otherwise there would be literally no reason to upgrade from a 918+/920+. Also I think support for the 918+/920+ will last until the successor of the 923+ will be released, which probably will be Intel based again, so also longer support (as was mentioned as a reason to buy the 923+ in a previous video) is really no reason to upgrade to the 923+.
923+ is really on another league compared to a 920+... what's wrong with it? Is it really all about that missing GPU? Are really all of you transcoding that much? I'm a heavy Plex user and in 2023 I have not a single use case where my friends and I need to transcode. Plex player on Windows and macOS, Plex from the TV OS or an nvshield or a fire stick, Plex for iOS/android... everything reads HEVC these days. Of course, if this is only about Plex, no one need to change his 920+... but no one will ever need to change his 920+, period.
I have a ds1612+ that has 2 pools - 3x8gb hdd shr for bulk storage and 2x1gb ssd shr mainly for VM images and other speed sensitive stuff ( home directories etc). And 2x500gb nvme for cache. As an experement, I created a storage pool on the nvme drives (using ssh and shell commands, unsupported) And it all worked and was as fast as I hoped. (I have a 10gb link between nas and VM hypervisor machine)
BUT - the nvme drives ran very hot (50C-60C and higher), and on at least two occasions (copying 100Gb+ from hdd to nvme) the system shut itself down due to heat.
If I had thought about it in advance, I could have turned up the fans to full, but that's hindsight. And that is too noisy for everyday use, for me.
So it looks as if the suggested reason synonlogy dont support this yet because of heat issues , may have some truth to it. Note this was the only issue I had, and it was gratifyingly fast.
I've now reverted to ssd for fast storage, hdd for bulk, with nvme cache for both ssd and hdd pools. As well as back to a supported configuration, It just feels safer.
later: I fitted 3-rd party heatsinks to the nvme ssds. Temps are now down to < 40C in normal use, rising to 50C ish under very heavy load. Fan speed is set to slowest speed (quiet mode)
@@paulbarnett1461 Any sites that have a write-up on how to enable pooling on non supported nvme ssds? I got two Silicon Power1TB NVMe M.2 PCIe Gen3x4 2280 ssds on sale for $75. Their highly rated high performers. I'm using them for cache, but would rather use them as a storage pool.
What could be a technical reason for the link cap? Cannibalising the rack stations?
Heat output, or rather the lack of proper ventilation.
Having now watched this, will abandon Synology thoughts for the moment. Maybe QNAP or stick with TrueNas.
What would I need ssd pools other than file editing on pc?
Nvme sad i mean
I think Sinologist greed has gotten them in trouble. I will not buy a BAS system where I can’t use standard memory brands. Goodby Synology.
It hurts to wake up 🤣
Mabie try being awake when you film a video