I honestly don't understand why you have background music playing when you're trying to explain something important. The background music makes it very hard to hear what you are saying and adds to the confusion of this video.
Threadripper is 120+8 or 60+4 (older not Pro). In the modern AMD structure every type of input/output device is connected through PCIe. So even on Threadripper the chipset lanes are still used for small peripheral connections that are not expected to have good latency and are not consistently moving enough data to justify reserving direct lanes for each device (x1 x2 or x4).
A litle late but . . . Ryzen 7000 have 24+4 (total 28) witch can only be totally in use with X670E. 20+4 (total 24) was the 3000 and 5000 series. The 1000 and 2000 was having 16 in total. You can have 1 GPU at gen 5x16 and 2 SSD NVME at gen 5x4 and the other via the chipset (can go to 2 gen 4 x4 as gen 5 x4 have double the bandwith).
PCI and its variants are bus protocols. Components connect to the bus. What's presented in the video sounds more like point-to-point connections (lanes ostensively »come from the CPU« or »come from the chipset«). This Tech Notice explanation does not make sense.
Easier method: I always check the Tech Spec -> Storage Section on their product website or the manual about M.2 slot before adding extra storage: My Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming Tech Spec: *3 When the M.2_1 Socket 3 is operating in SATA or PCIE mode, SATA6G_5/6 ports will be disabled. *4 When the M.2_2 is occupied by M.2 device, PCIe x16_1 will run at x8 mode. I don't want to give up the pcie lane for my GPU, so I bought a 2.5 SATA SSD as a secondary storage instead
Here are the spech of my MSI B650 th 3x M.2 (Qty) M.2_1 Source (From CPU) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260 devices M.2_2 Source (From CPU) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260 devices M.2_3 Source (From Chipset) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260 devices 6x SATA 6G (Qty) • M2_2 supports PCIe 4.0 x2 speed when Ryzen™ 5 8500G is installed so i can run a secondary nvme as storage?
long story short, mainstream platforms have insufficient pcie lanes for common uses. with all current mainstream platforms, you get 3 pcie slots and up to 3 m.2 slots. typically a 16x gpu is going to be in the top pcie slot. if you put a card in the second pcie slot it will half the bandwidth to the first (gpu) pcie slot to 8x. this is UNACCEPTABLE, particularly now that we have cards with good memory bandwidth. the third pcie slot is a 4x slot (which can sometimes look like an 8x or 16x slot but it's electrically only 4 lanes). this is typically shared with the second m.2 slot (at least it is on amd platforms) this means if you have a high bandwidth m.2 drive slotted in the second m.2 slot, it will have to share bandwidth with whatever is in that 3rd pcie slot. this too is unacceptable because that could very well be a multi 4k capture card, or another m.2 ssd on an adapter pcie card. the top slot (at least on amd boards) is direct cpu connected in every case i've seen, the THIRD m.2 slot is typically connected through the chipset which means it has to contend with your onboard 10g nic, your audio solution, your onboard usb3.2/4, etc. etc. which can slow things down quite a bit. tl;dr: intel and amd need to start giving us more pcie lanes on these platforms. 64 or so should do it, that should at least give us 3 real 16x pcie slots, 3 m.2 slots that aren't switched, and a dedicated pcie 4x to onboard dual 10g networking so it doesn't slow anything down. there are lots of people like myself that are peeved that they'd have the audacity to charge us something like another THOUSAND dollars just to get reasonable numbers of pcie lanes and a couple extra memory channels.
I am very glad there is Tech Notice out here making these kind of videos for creators. Everybody else talks only about gamer pcs. Anyhow even though I am still confused I at least know where to start looking - Block Diagrams. Thank you Tech Notice for making such videos and engaging in the comment section.
Thanks for reviewing and clearing this up. I had chosen one of the gigabyte boards you recommended and had to make sure the SSd was in right slot to keep it going.
@@dismuter_yt Yes, he enjoys making fun of JayzTwoCent's errors in some of the videos, but the motherboard he suggested can't read some of my hard drives, so I'm considering sending him the bill right now. ;))
Ryzen 7000 series has 24+4 lanes to CPU. 16x lanes for PCIe, 8x lanes NVMe and 4x to chipset. On the x670e you have two "dedicated" M.2 slots to the CPU so no lane switching(sharing).
Even if it’s a gen 5 m.2 ? So the x670e aorus master board ? Do you happen to understand the diagram on that bored ? I can use full 16 lanes for gpu and can I use either gen 5 or gen 4 to cpu without lane switching? Thanks so much if you know
Very good info on this! As a creator, this knowledge is very helpful on discerning your system and quite useful when building one and choosing the right motherboard that will be a benefit to your area of work.
There are PCIe 5.0 peripherals: the NVIDIA H100 GPU and ConnectX-7 NIC, and several SSDs. You should note that the x16 connection on Intel LGA1700 can only be bifurcated x8/x8, which is less flexible than AM5 which allows x4/x4/x4/x4
I have an old 990fx AM3+ board (The northbridge provides all PCIe) and it has 40+4 PCIe2.0 lanes (data is sparse so a bit of collecting data and calculating on my part). The 990 chipset could support(based on board vender), either 2 x16 ; x8/x8/x16 ; or x8/x8/x8/x8. x32 is in the PCIe standard but I don't know of any x32 devices. and still had 2 x4 and 2 x1 (or the option of 1 x4 and 6 x1 ) for expansion cards 2 or 4 PCIe lanes (unclear they renamed it alink-Express3), were used for the southbridge which handles all of the network(1Gb), USB(~10 mix of 2.0 and 3.0), 6-SATA, firewire, eSATA, audio and several legacy headers for things like serial and parallel.
Gigabyte some of them- Yes z790 elite x has gen 4 m.2 top slot and 16 lane to first graphics card slot. so no switching! Good video as this confuses so many people
MSI Tomahawk has some interesting potential for tweaked graphics performance due how it's laned with a direct to CPU slot and a chipset wired slot. Would be a great board for exploring the real difference in performance from various lane routing.
Great just picked up a z790 tomahawk, so my options are - 1. Read the manual or 2. Spend hours tinkering and benchmarking. Looks like I'm gonna need more coffee :D
I've spent days looking for this info for a few z790 boards. And you reviewed that specific board and made it clear how to connect the m.2 units in order not to reduce the PCIe_1 lanes
This is my main issue for years, can't afford a threadripper, but the difference in # of PCIe Lanes between Threadripper and Ryzen is just ridiculous. Every gen upgrade AMD is adding 4 miserable lanes to the Ryzen line.... People need at least 2 full PCIe 16x and a 3erd at least 8x. Not including m.2 of course. Every system I built I have to choose between, fast network cards or storage HBA, and that always comes with a sacrifice of my GPU PCIe bandwidth by HALF which is around 5-10% perfornmace....
Question?: The MSI Mag Tomahawk Wifi DDR5 MAX does not have a cpu connected pci4 nvme slot other than slot 1. So the question is which is more beneficial having the main hard drive connected directly to cpu and leaving only 8 lanes for gpu; or connecting main hard drive to chipset and having 16 lanes for gpu? Articles I've seen so far seem to indicate a negligible performance difference between 8 lanes and 16 lanes for gpu usage, but I don't really see anything about the latency difference between using chipset or cpu for ssd...or combined evaluation. Right now I have a i7-12700K and rtx3050 so slot 1 for my nvme is for me as 3050 only uses 8 lanes anyway, but I am planning on upgrading in the future. Primarily used for gaming, but also learning python and GIS (GIS rendering seems intensive).
I have a 7950X3D, 1x 980Pro 1TB PCI 4.0 , 1x 970 Evo 1TB PCI 3.0, 1x Kingston 500 GB PCI 4.0, RTX 4070Tİ on a MSI B650 Tomahawk wifi and I can use my all SSD at full speed and performance PCIe 4.0 @x4 speed. And I can use my RTX 4070Ti @ x16 Gen 4.0
Late to the party, but was actually wondering about this, since ive seen people not using the top ssd slot. And then this video shows up on my feed today! Thanks for the info😊
16:22 - exactly. In less words, the former southbridge is integrated inside the CPU socket making all of it like a sort of cortex. There is no latency between the CPU and the components on the PCI-E lanes.
TL:DR: If you are building a gaming PC, just get a board without any gen 5 nvme slots and you are safe. Why on earth any gaming PC needs gen 5 SSD is beyond me.
This is why researching your Board is probably the most important thing you can do when in the design phase. FYI, this has been a thing since at least the existence of PCI in general (AFAIK).
“Great videos, but context can be spotty. Smoothness suffers due to connectives and unavailable components. Articulation is solid, but arguments sometimes lack clarity.” 🎥👍
I have a 7950X3D, 1x 980Pro 1TB PCI 4.0 , 1x 970 Evo 1TB PCI 3.0, 1x Kingston 500 GB PCI 4.0, RTX 4070Tİ on a MSI B650 Tomahawk wifi and I can use my all SSD at full speed and performance PCIe 4.0 @x4 speed. And I can use my RTX 4070Ti @ x16 Gen 4.0
I have a Z690 Aero G DDR4 with a 12th Gen 12700K, and I was just looking at the recent Z790 boards and noted that the recent Z790 can reduce the top slot and was wonder why they went with the design. As I have populated all my 4 M.2 slots, I was quite surprised by the recent Z790 update, as it will be a concern if a creator needs the additional M.2, will have to choose between the m.2 and GPU. Hope that they will consider to review the reduction by the PCIE lane in future.
U enlightend me :D ... im a 1981 .... and i was like building 486 Systems, going to MMX166 and such :D ... there was no need to think about PCIe lanes at all :D ... Today im going to build a whole new Unraid beast and my "Mainframe" RenderPC ... and damn ... as i looked and benchmarked a lot of Mainboards and their diagrams .... seems like in 2024 its all about Lanes ... Thanks for that Video .... :) And even if you made a mistake about AMDs PCIe Lanes - - who cares - dual XEONs do their job pretty well .. tho the Threadrippers are insane :)
So just watching this, and I have a z790 motherboard with 13th gen i9. The CPU has 20 PCI lanes. 16 is being used by the graphic card and 4 is being used for the M.2 card. I also have another M.2, in the second slot, which is using 4 PCI lanes from the Z790 chipset. Both my graphics card and 1st M.2 card are both running at full speed, X16 (gen 4) for the GPU and X4 (gen 4) for the M.2
I'm Very Glad that i Subscribed to you and didn't regret it. Every Videos you Upload always gives me Fresh Knowledge, Every small Information about PC components🔥🔥 I can Consider myself as a Computer Nerd🤓
One of the reasons why I still like my cheap X99 build (X99TF motherboard) with the XEON E5-2696v3 (18core/36 thread; 3.8Ghz turboboost). FORTY (40) PCIE lanes (albeit Gen 3)! I also like its FOUR(4) CHANNEL MEMORY and ability to support either DDR3 or DDR4 (limited to 2133Mhz, but in four channel)! Sure, it's a decade old processor. But at only $45, it can still deliver a CB R23 multi score of 14,050 pts. Yes...the IPC isn't great...and its efficiency cannot compare with modern CPU architecture. But it gets the job done well and it runs cool on air...and never exceeds 53C at 20C ambient. For gaming, it will typically run ~3.7 Ghz all core (turbo unlocked). On full stress loads, the 145W TDP becomes its hard limit and it will revert to 2.8Ghz all core. Mine is well matched with the venerable RTX 2080Ti.
Note that a lot of motherboards for the AM5 socket and currently AMD Ryzen 7000 processors doesn't support PCIe 5.0 for the x16 slot for GPU or the first M.2 slot. Others support one M.2 at PCIe 5.0 but still only PCIe 4.0 for the x16 slot for GPU. Finally there are cards that support up to PCIe 5.0 for both the first M.2 and the PCIe x16 slot for the GPU. Note that this is present in both B650 motherboards and X670 motherboards. So check the documentation so you know what the capabilities of the motherboard is. The PCIe x16 only supporting up to 4.0 is today no big deal as currently there aren't any graphic cards that support PCIe 5.0. It might actually matter in a year or so when new graphics cards are released. But even then I doubt it will be a dramatic difference between running those cards at PCIe 4.0 or 5.0. The limit on the M.2 slot is however more real as there are very high performance M.2 drives that support PCIe 5.0. However we're talking about 7GB/s or 15GB/s, and while this sounds drastic it's not really something you are likely to feel the difference of in real life. Besides the maximum transfer rate tends to be limited in span on the fastest drives. Once you've filled the buffer on the drive the write speed will go down a lot. PCIe 5.0 drives also tend to use more energy and run a lot hotter than the PCIe 4.0 drives. What I'm trying to say is that there are speed limitations on the PCIe slots and the first M.2 slot on a lot of motherboards. And yet that doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad. But check the specs before you buy so you aren't surprised when PCIe is limited to 4.0 if you upgrade in the future.
My msi z790 tomahawk I have all 4 pcie slots filled with 4 gen 4 drives and 2 sata drives. My 4090 runs at full speeds. My z490 tomahawk has both nmve slots filled and 4 sata drives it's only a pcie gen 3 "10th gen" and my 3080ti runs at full gen 3 speeds "3080ti is gen 4 but again 10th gen..." I've never had an issue with populating nvme slots and loosing lanes. Even on my old z170 and 6700k build.
Those proart boards have a big problem. The heats sink on the chipset sticks up too far and prevents pCie cards from properly seating in the second slot making the slot worthless. I have 4 of them and I'm thinking about chucking them all in the trash now.
With NVME drives getting cheaper, drive expansions is ideal for AM5 X670 chipset. I have a chugging Z170X motherboard but ok with me as I can directly install two NVME drives plus two SATA drives. The 4 sata ports were disabled when using the second NVME drive but ok with me.
Wondering why we cant have a Z790 gaming board with 3 PCIE lanes. Like GPU. But i want to add a Capture and Sound Card. Why when we pay 500 to 1000 for the motherboard do we have to compromise on Whats parts we can add to our pc.
There are several Z790 gaming boards that have 3 full length PCIe slots, though obviously they're not all x16 due to the platform not having enough lanes. Z790 Aorus Master and Tachyon, MSI Z790 MEG Ace and Asus ROG Maximus Hero (not the newer Dark) come to mind immediately. Now, if you're asking why the mainstream platforms don't have all those PCIe lanes? Well, AMD and Intel want you to buy their HEDT or workstation platforms (=more $$$ for them) if you want more bandwidth.
IVE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD THE THE M.2 ABOVE GPU SHARES PCIE LANES AND BANDWITH WITH CPU WHICH IS THE FASTES AND BEST W2AY AS IN PERFORMANCE TO USE FOR YOU (OS) ETC AND THE OTHER M.2 SHARES LANES WITH SOUTHBRIDGE CHIPSET DEPENDING ON GEN OF MOBO AND CPU
The Asus dark hero board is a bit confusing for some in the Z790 chipset. if you have an M.two in slot one it will reduce the bandwidth in the PCie x16 slot two to 8x as a priority goes to the m.2. It will not do this in slot 1 of pcie x16. Unlike one of the MSI tomohawk boards will slow down pcie x16 in slot one if you put an nvme in slot one.
What's funny is that half lanes is still more than enough on PCIE 5 and often enough on 4. Even the 4090 can't saturate the last gen bus. But we've known this is the case since PCI Express 2 first came out, and it's a great thing.
Someone below a month ago stated a 5-10% performance hit on the GPU at half lane/8x. That might be for gen 4 but I'm looking to future proof the GPU lane at 16x and stick with Gen 4 m.2 to the CPU.
On some Intel processors, the difference needs a better camera, I counted 5-10 more connections on the 2 ghz core 2 duo 667, 2 mb cache laptop cpu, compared to the pentium 2.2, 800 mhz fsb, 1 mb cache.
For gaming a monitor will only use 4 lanes, I have a 13900k with a msi z790 ace, I have 3 monitors with 1 being ran on the igpu in the cpu and the other 2 on my 4080, I also have a gen 5 ssd, my gpu runs on 8 lanes because of this, but I have zero loss in gaming performance because 8 lanes is all the 2 monitors need
i have an Asus TUF b550 chipset motherboard and it has 2x m.2 slots and 6 sata slots. When i plug an M.2 SSD into the second slot it disables 2 of the sata ports and uses that to run the second m.2 slot. So i can have 2x M.2 + 4 Sata drives or 1x M.2 + 6 Sata drives. Also since the second m.2 slot uses bandwidth of 2 Sata ports it limits the second m.2 SSD to 1.5GB/s speed (single Sata 3 is 6gbps so 12gbps = 1,5GB/s).
18:14 Very bold statement. I have the same card (Hyper M.2 X16 gen 4) and it doesn't have a PLX chip on it. It means that if you wanna use the 4 M.2 slots on the boards, you have to bifurcate the given PCI-E X16 to 4x4. Are you sure that the motherboard supports bifurcation for EVERY X16 slot? Because they are usually supporting it only on the first X16 slot but not the other ones, even if those lanes are also connected to the CPU and not the chipset. Slots connected to the chipset are most probably not supporting PCI-E bifurcation at all.
all z690 and z790 do this - the only time it matters for the top slot is later when gen 5 NVMe's come out - but given they still have no saturated, or otherwise maxed the gen 4 NVMe's yet, I dont think it really matters.
good info up to the point of pushing AMD and the outragous price tag for a thread ripper system. you can get 9 intel CPUs for the price of one $5000 AMD CPU.
years back I got X99 platform, it was a huge mess because some CPUs had 40 lanes, some had 28 lanes, motherboard schematics online were sparse and so it often happened some PCIe slots were basically x1 from chipset with CPU not being able to provide any lanes to them
My new mobo has a diagram that shows 16+4 or 8x2 + 4 . It's important to know that because not all the mobos are cutting the 16 PCIe slot in half while adding a M.2 SSD on the top.
Depends on motherboard and cost Blanket statements aren't true for every board Budget board and build probably Will you see difference yes I watched a high-end PC run and couldn't handle fps
pcie 4.0 x8 is the same as pcie 3.0 x16 in terms of theoretical bandwidth. im running a 4090 at x8 and it is fine. my board knocks out the m.2_1 because i have to use the bottom pcie x16_2 because i have a watercooled gpu, that won't fit in the first slot.
So if you're using the m.2 slot at the top of the gpu, there's no lane cut as long as it's a gen 4? So how about using the pcie slots below the top pcie slot? Will it cut the main to half if for example we add an m.2 there?
@@bogdan12275 if I understand it correctly, the 13th gen in particular, has has up to 1x pcie gen5 x16 and 1x pcie gen4 x4. So a 4th gen m.2 installed in the cpu chipset will not cut down the gpu lane. But if you use the extra pcie slots at the same time, I have no idea either
Dude, read the manual for clarification, it's on the web! For free! Intel 12th gen, introduced x16 Gen 5 + x4 Gen 4. Some motherboard, the top most (the closest to the CPU) wired it to Gen 5 lanes, while other Gen 4. AMD on the other hand, doesn't separate. Meaning, if you installed PCIE 4.0 devices, your entire CPU's PCIE will run at Gen 4 speed.
99.9% of M.2 adapter cards, like the Asus Hyper cards, DO NOT have lane multiplexer chips on them. Cards that do usually cost $150 and up. Most mainstream mainboards, unlike a small number of xeon and Threadripper workstation mainboards, DO NOT feature pci bifurcation on all pcie slots
Which is ok, as most normal people would never make full use of a Threadripper's potential. And if you want it for gaming, switching it to "game mode" basically turns it into an 8 core anyway. Might as well just go with a 5900x/5950x/7900x/7950x (which has it's own issues early on) or the x3D variants. The primary advatnage of Threadripper show up in massive individual productivity tasks. So, unless you are doing 3D rendering or utilizing a video editor that can leverage the high core count, you don't really need one. If you ARE doing those sort of work loads, you can afford it.
Yeah, there are many other commentators who say there is zero reason to care about dropping GPU-dedicated lanes from x16 Gen5 lanes to x8 Gen5 lanes because we are years away from graphic cards that need more than x8 lanes or, equivalently speaking, will benefit from x16 lanes. If true, then connect your Gen5 SSD to the top slot, drop the GPU from x16 to x8, and move on with no reduction in GPU throughput.
Ha! Shouldnt really be an issue now in 2023 but if I use the M.2 on my old X99 board I lose a slot...totally, even though I have a 40 lanes chip. If I use another slot I lose my USB3.1 sockets.
Not sure about my new motherboard (still waiting on the system), it's a TUF Gaming B650 (plus WIFI which I got because X670 is simply overkill for my needs), it has three M.2s-lots and from what i can tell first two are fine to use but if I use the third one I lose access to the second PCIex16-slot (which runs at x4 I think). Since I'm only using one GPU I should be fine. Using an old GPU and will only use a PCIe4-M.2. though I could plug a PCIE5 one in since the first slot is PCIe5. Will use all three slots since I'll transfer the two M.2 I use in my current system... Yes, Threadripper takes it to another level, including another level of pricing :D Will probably never have one :)
been an intel fanboy for awhile, but this information is making me reconsider my next build. seems like amd/ryzen is the winner. whats the point in buying an intel platform now?
Thanks, great info. I'm trying to decide which Z790 mainboard to get for my new pc... still confused. Looking at gigabyte-z790-aorus-elite-x block diagram. Look slike there is one PCI 5 x16 + 1 M.2 gen 4 connected to CPU, all other M2 etc are connected to the chipset. Shoudl I use the VGA + M2 connected to CPU or better to use M2 via chipset ? Maybe some one can recommend some mainboards that are better choice... ? Without breaking the bank :)
Check your manual if it indicates PCIEX16 G5 X16 AND M.2 X4 connected to CPU, then you will get the full 16 lanes for your GPU if you connect your M.2 to the top slot
@@kyrgeorge Gigabyte Auros Elite X wifi7 with g.skill ram @6000hz. Just had it few days, so far installed Linux without issues beside no wifi7. Win 11 works fine when installing using their media creation tool (not stand alone ISO), no M2 drives found, can't add mb drivers... The mb feels great, heavy and high quality, should last for next 5 years or so. On papper this new pc is 2.5x faster than my old pc with, but in reality for every day tasks the speed is about same to be honest. :)
This is definitely CPU + motherboard dependent. Best bet with intel z790 is to leave the top gen 5 m.2 slot alone and setup a RAID 0 or 10 with 4x 1tb gen 4 SSDs. Or even do a RAID 0 on 2x SSD gen 4 on the chipset. I get 17k mb/sec read/write on m.2 gen 4 which crushes a single gen 5 m.2. My corei9 14900k smokes on a Gigabyte Extreme X with full x16 on my RTX4070. Now on my sons amd 7950x3d AM5 platform which has 4 gen 5 m.2 slots, he can RAID 0 up to 4 gen 5 m.2 and 20+k mb sec read/write. And keep x16 on his Nitro 7900XTX. Can’t touch the AMD pci lane support for Gen 5!
When you need a fast storage on a desktop PC Intel has a vacation in Philippines. And that’s a not a rocked science to route PCIe lanes in a proper way. Let blues not to cry next time PS It would be interesting if you spot a bit an issue with a connection a PCIe/M.2 slot to a certain Ryzen crystal. I think with connecting NVMes to different crystal we can “ruin” entire RAID.
I looked carefully at my Intel CPU 12900ks specs which is a 16+4 pci lane and my Asus Z690 rog hero board which indicates that all SSD NVme sticks are running through the chipset and none run off the 16 PCIe lane. Apparently Asus doesn't think that any Nvme SSD should run from that but rather the 4 lane chipset is sufficient. That means my GPU should get the full 16 lanes unless I was to plug something else into the PCIe lane or add another GPU. I believe this is correct. Please advise if I am wrong.
Really upset that I didn't end up getting the TR Pro. I was watching the videos and nothing was being talked about when it comes to liens switching after. I purchased it. Now everyone is talking about it.... Im stuck with a PC I hate working with now
Okay I get it now but three question, first question is does Integrated GPU use the PCIe lanes too despite being located in the same die as the CPU? and second question is does Laptop/Handheld PC Gaming motherboard (PCB) also have the chipset in Desktop motherboard or not? third question is does Laptop with DISCRETE GPU use PCIe lanes too? I’m genuinely asking because I know the answer for the first question (not really sure about the second one) but I just wanna BE CLEAR about it so please BE NICE all 😁
So glad I got duped by weeb marketing and got a Z690 ROG Hero Maximus, no issues with PCIe lane sharing/switching. Only know that putting an m.2 drive in the very top slot near the CPU and a GPU in the top PCIe x16 slot and each have full bandwidth. Now, doing some research, the ROG Strix Z690 is not that convenient and it will throttle down the PCIe x16 to x8 if you put the M.2 drive in the top slot.
In order to get the manual you have to purchase the motherboard, all I want to know which motherboards to avoid that will cause this problem by dropping down your GPU down from 16 to 8, I want to avoid getting these motherboards. I don't mind which ever motherboard I have to use that won't cause this problem.
I cannot tell you the number of people that complain about a add in card to add USB 3 gen 2 and complain that they are not getting the advertised speed or other update cards that are not working as advertised and they don't think about the fact that maybe their hardware motherboard, CPU or chipset does not support anything more than 16 PCIe lanes, or they will say sometimes it works and for no reason will stop working and they did have extra PCIe lanes but they have already added one or two additional cards in the PC and think the 2nd or 3rd add-in card should work just because they had an empty slot.
It’s not super critical for me as a photographer, but I was upset when I noticed that myASUS rogue maximus cut down, bandwidth or disabled I think two of my data ports Or cut their bandwidth down if I installed a second nvme drive. Especially since all my SATA ports are populated with drives. . I wonder if it’s worthwhile to buy a creator motherboard instead of a gaming one, and if it also provides additional headroom between upgrade periods because of all the additional slots.
Shame I did not find this video prior to me purchasing the topx3d ryzen on a Asrock Taichi motherboard atx-e. If I knew I would have gotten this pro cpu motherboard.
What do you think is faster for the games data installation ? An 2TB M.2 drive encrypted with Bitlocker that is connected directly to the CPU with its x4 lane (as C: main drive). Or the games data on a second 2TB M.2 drive that is not bitlocker encrypted and not connected directly to the CPU with the lane, but via x4 to the chipset ?
Isn’t Intel 20 lanes plus the dmi lanes to the chipset? Therefore 16x5.0 for GPU and 4x4.0 for the first m.2 which is always dedicated… Everything else comes from the chipset ?
Just confirmed it. RTX 40 GPU on PCIE 5.0 slot on MSI z790 Tomahawk, added a second gen 4 nvme to one of the PCIE 4.0 slots and my GPU is still at x16 per Hardware Info 64.... Now in the future when I add a PCIE 5.0 GPU that might change
Mother of GOD......... now I have to look at diagrams to make sure I can use all my PCI lanes. Good god. I should have to check this stuff out in a diagram it should be right in the main specs. Also, not even a think to begin with. The fact there are motherboards out there that are setup to fail by design kind of pisses me off. Now its going to be even harder to find the right motherboard. I don't even think there is a way to even search for the correct motherboard that isn't FUBAR'ed.
a bit of a problem? well, if i use the first m2 slot on my z690 Strix F then i have occasional stutters and laggs in games and often on desktop stuff. my 12600kf should be strong enough to handle a 4060, a 970 evo plus w11 and 980 pro game drive. the 4060 is pcie 4.0 8x by design so it should work but it doesn't. so i have to use the 3 m2 slots coming from the z690 chipset to have a decent experience.
My Asus ROG STRIX B450-I GAMING board says in the manual - I only loose Pcie lanes if I populate the second Nvme on the back of the board - 1st one is always full speed & GPU socket full speed - The way that Asrock Intel board does it is garbage 💩💩 looking at an Asrock board for AM5, will have to double check it for this switching nonsense lol.
CORRECTION: Ryzen 7000 has 24+4 PCIe Gen 5 lanes instead of 20+4 what I said in the video. Thank you everyone for pointing that out! 😊
I honestly don't understand why you have background music playing when you're trying to explain something important. The background music makes it very hard to hear what you are saying and adds to the confusion of this video.
Threadripper is 120+8 or 60+4 (older not Pro). In the modern AMD structure every type of input/output device is connected through PCIe. So even on Threadripper the chipset lanes are still used for small peripheral connections that are not expected to have good latency and are not consistently moving enough data to justify reserving direct lanes for each device (x1 x2 or x4).
Do you have the link for the other video you did on the PCle lanes in more detail? You do a great job explaining.
A litle late but . . . Ryzen 7000 have 24+4 (total 28) witch can only be totally in use with X670E. 20+4 (total 24) was the 3000 and 5000 series. The 1000 and 2000 was having 16 in total. You can have 1 GPU at gen 5x16 and 2 SSD NVME at gen 5x4 and the other via the chipset (can go to 2 gen 4 x4 as gen 5 x4 have double the bandwith).
PCI and its variants are bus protocols. Components connect to the bus.
What's presented in the video sounds more like point-to-point connections (lanes ostensively »come from the CPU« or »come from the chipset«).
This Tech Notice explanation does not make sense.
Easier method:
I always check the Tech Spec -> Storage Section on their product website or the manual about M.2 slot before adding extra storage:
My Asus ROG Strix B450-F Gaming Tech Spec:
*3 When the M.2_1 Socket 3 is operating in SATA or PCIE mode, SATA6G_5/6 ports will be disabled.
*4 When the M.2_2 is occupied by M.2 device, PCIe x16_1 will run at x8 mode.
I don't want to give up the pcie lane for my GPU, so I bought a 2.5 SATA SSD as a secondary storage instead
Here are the spech of my MSI B650 th
3x M.2 (Qty)
M.2_1 Source (From CPU) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260 devices
M.2_2 Source (From CPU) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260 devices
M.2_3 Source (From Chipset) supports up to PCIe 4.0 x4 , supports 2280/2260 devices
6x SATA 6G (Qty)
• M2_2 supports PCIe 4.0 x2 speed when Ryzen™ 5 8500G is installed
so i can run a secondary nvme as storage?
@@singwolf. sure, but I'm not sure the performance of M.2_3, have you tested?
long story short, mainstream platforms have insufficient pcie lanes for common uses. with all current mainstream platforms, you get 3 pcie slots and up to 3 m.2 slots. typically a 16x gpu is going to be in the top pcie slot. if you put a card in the second pcie slot it will half the bandwidth to the first (gpu) pcie slot to 8x. this is UNACCEPTABLE, particularly now that we have cards with good memory bandwidth. the third pcie slot is a 4x slot (which can sometimes look like an 8x or 16x slot but it's electrically only 4 lanes). this is typically shared with the second m.2 slot (at least it is on amd platforms) this means if you have a high bandwidth m.2 drive slotted in the second m.2 slot, it will have to share bandwidth with whatever is in that 3rd pcie slot. this too is unacceptable because that could very well be a multi 4k capture card, or another m.2 ssd on an adapter pcie card. the top slot (at least on amd boards) is direct cpu connected in every case i've seen, the THIRD m.2 slot is typically connected through the chipset which means it has to contend with your onboard 10g nic, your audio solution, your onboard usb3.2/4, etc. etc. which can slow things down quite a bit.
tl;dr: intel and amd need to start giving us more pcie lanes on these platforms. 64 or so should do it, that should at least give us 3 real 16x pcie slots, 3 m.2 slots that aren't switched, and a dedicated pcie 4x to onboard dual 10g networking so it doesn't slow anything down. there are lots of people like myself that are peeved that they'd have the audacity to charge us something like another THOUSAND dollars just to get reasonable numbers of pcie lanes and a couple extra memory channels.
I am very glad there is Tech Notice out here making these kind of videos for creators. Everybody else talks only about gamer pcs. Anyhow even though I am still confused I at least know where to start looking - Block Diagrams. Thank you Tech Notice for making such videos and engaging in the comment section.
appreciate the comment, you're exactly who I'm making these videos for! :)
This comment right here. I second that sir! Thank you!
This video was a lot of word salad. Just check your motherboard manual.
@@michaelgleason4791 actually I found it fairly helpful considering, as a first time builder, I didn't know a lot of this.
@@theTechNotice does that mean u dont like us gamers huh
Thanks for reviewing and clearing this up. I had chosen one of the gigabyte boards you recommended and had to make sure the SSd was in right slot to keep it going.
There is a small mistake in the information you provided regarding the AMD 7000 CPU.
Number of PCI lanes is 24+4. Not 20+4.
That's not a small mistake though 😅
Yes, you are right, thanks for pointing that out!
@@dismuter_yt Yes, he enjoys making fun of JayzTwoCent's errors in some of the videos, but the motherboard he suggested can't read some of my hard drives, so I'm considering sending him the bill right now. ;))
If i set the pcie slot to x8x4x4 & i install a dual nvme expansion card on the slot what will happen?@@theTechNotice
@@wotreplays8896 send 2 bills i need a new motherboard also
Ryzen 7000 series has 24+4 lanes to CPU. 16x lanes for PCIe, 8x lanes NVMe and 4x to chipset. On the x670e you have two "dedicated" M.2 slots to the CPU so no lane switching(sharing).
Even if it’s a gen 5 m.2 ? So the x670e aorus master board ? Do you happen to understand the diagram on that bored ? I can use full 16 lanes for gpu and can I use either gen 5 or gen 4 to cpu without lane switching? Thanks so much if you know
Excellent video. One of the most informative channels out there. Well done.
Very good info on this! As a creator, this knowledge is very helpful on discerning your system and quite useful when building one and choosing the right motherboard that will be a benefit to your area of work.
There are PCIe 5.0 peripherals: the NVIDIA H100 GPU and ConnectX-7 NIC, and several SSDs.
You should note that the x16 connection on Intel LGA1700 can only be bifurcated x8/x8, which is less flexible than AM5 which allows x4/x4/x4/x4
I have an old 990fx AM3+ board (The northbridge provides all PCIe) and it has 40+4 PCIe2.0 lanes (data is sparse so a bit of collecting data and calculating on my part).
The 990 chipset could support(based on board vender), either 2 x16 ; x8/x8/x16 ; or x8/x8/x8/x8.
x32 is in the PCIe standard but I don't know of any x32 devices.
and still had 2 x4 and 2 x1 (or the option of 1 x4 and 6 x1 ) for expansion cards
2 or 4 PCIe lanes (unclear they renamed it alink-Express3), were used for the southbridge which handles all of the network(1Gb), USB(~10 mix of 2.0 and 3.0), 6-SATA, firewire, eSATA, audio and several legacy headers for things like serial and parallel.
Gigabyte some of them- Yes z790 elite x has gen 4 m.2 top slot and 16 lane to first graphics card slot. so no switching! Good video as this confuses so many people
MSI Tomahawk has some interesting potential for tweaked graphics performance due how it's laned with a direct to CPU slot and a chipset wired slot. Would be a great board for exploring the real difference in performance from various lane routing.
Great just picked up a z790 tomahawk, so my options are -
1. Read the manual or 2. Spend hours tinkering and benchmarking.
Looks like I'm gonna need more coffee :D
I really tried but i got morr confused but i will rewatch again
I've spent days looking for this info for a few z790 boards. And you reviewed that specific board and made it clear how to connect the m.2 units in order not to reduce the PCIe_1 lanes
This is my main issue for years, can't afford a threadripper, but the difference in # of PCIe Lanes between Threadripper and Ryzen is just ridiculous.
Every gen upgrade AMD is adding 4 miserable lanes to the Ryzen line.... People need at least 2 full PCIe 16x and a 3erd at least 8x. Not including m.2 of course.
Every system I built I have to choose between, fast network cards or storage HBA, and that always comes with a sacrifice of my GPU PCIe bandwidth by HALF which is around 5-10% perfornmace....
Nobody needs 2x16 slots.
Gaming. Sli/xfire is dead
Productivity no card out there saturates pcie 4.0 8x let alone 16x
Amazing info.. well explained. Love you son cameo at 15:10 second.
I have a pretty good understanding of PCIe lanes, but your explanation left me scratching my head.
Question?: The MSI Mag Tomahawk Wifi DDR5 MAX does not have a cpu connected pci4 nvme slot other than slot 1. So the question is which is more beneficial having the main hard drive connected directly to cpu and leaving only 8 lanes for gpu; or connecting main hard drive to chipset and having 16 lanes for gpu? Articles I've seen so far seem to indicate a negligible performance difference between 8 lanes and 16 lanes for gpu usage, but I don't really see anything about the latency difference between using chipset or cpu for ssd...or combined evaluation. Right now I have a i7-12700K and rtx3050 so slot 1 for my nvme is for me as 3050 only uses 8 lanes anyway, but I am planning on upgrading in the future. Primarily used for gaming, but also learning python and GIS (GIS rendering seems intensive).
I have a 7950X3D, 1x 980Pro 1TB PCI 4.0 , 1x 970 Evo 1TB PCI 3.0, 1x Kingston 500 GB PCI 4.0, RTX 4070Tİ on a MSI B650 Tomahawk wifi and I can use my all SSD at full speed and performance PCIe 4.0 @x4 speed. And I can use my RTX 4070Ti @ x16 Gen 4.0
Late to the party, but was actually wondering about this, since ive seen people not using the top ssd slot. And then this video shows up on my feed today! Thanks for the info😊
Some motherboards lose SATA ports if extra M2 slots are used. It is not only a reduction in lanes for the graphics card slot that can be lost
True!
Great video!! I really needed to know a lot of this information right now for a build I want to do 🙏🏾
Useful video. Although I knew some of the info, so many PC users live in negligence to know it.
16:22 - exactly. In less words, the former southbridge is integrated inside the CPU socket making all of it like a sort of cortex. There is no latency between the CPU and the components on the PCI-E lanes.
Great video!
I always check the manual of the motherboard, and I usually choose Gigabyte.
TL:DR: If you are building a gaming PC, just get a board without any gen 5 nvme slots and you are safe. Why on earth any gaming PC needs gen 5 SSD is beyond me.
This is why researching your Board is probably the most important thing you can do when in the design phase. FYI, this has been a thing since at least the existence of PCI in general (AFAIK).
Nice vid. Helped alot. Wish my motherboard had a diagram like that and not just words
This video is wild. You just explained so clearly something I didn't even know existed! 😅 Thank you!
“Great videos, but context can be spotty. Smoothness suffers due to connectives and unavailable components. Articulation is solid, but arguments sometimes lack clarity.” 🎥👍
Very good and informative, now please compare speeds of gpu going in x16 and x8. Thanks for very good video!
There currently is no PCIE 5.0 GPU's 5 x8 is equal to 4 x16
Honest feedback : Too many words with little important information, less clarity
Why settle for half the words when we can get double? More is more.
Rtfm
Apparently you just don't understand the issue
Yeah man idk why they dont explain like we are 5 years old omfg
Yeah this was a long-ass video to say "check your manual."
I have a 7950X3D, 1x 980Pro 1TB PCI 4.0 , 1x 970 Evo 1TB PCI 3.0, 1x Kingston 500 GB PCI 4.0, RTX 4070Tİ on a MSI B650 Tomahawk wifi and I can use my all SSD at full speed and performance PCIe 4.0 @x4 speed. And I can use my RTX 4070Ti @ x16 Gen 4.0
Thanks for the clarification and reconfirming my thoughts which are the same as yours!
My Z790 motherboard MSI MAG Tomahawk Wi-Fi only has 1 M.2 gen 4 connection to the CPU so the x16 gen 5 lanes to the GPU don't need to switch.
I have a Z690 Aero G DDR4 with a 12th Gen 12700K, and I was just looking at the recent Z790 boards and noted that the recent Z790 can reduce the top slot and was wonder why they went with the design. As I have populated all my 4 M.2 slots, I was quite surprised by the recent Z790 update, as it will be a concern if a creator needs the additional M.2, will have to choose between the m.2 and GPU. Hope that they will consider to review the reduction by the PCIE lane in future.
these z790 mobos are garbage....its crazy a m.2 disk slow down gpu. i have 2 m.2 disks in z270 p asus and no slow down in gpu
U enlightend me :D ... im a 1981 .... and i was like building 486 Systems, going to MMX166 and such :D ... there was no need to think about PCIe lanes at all :D ... Today im going to build a whole new Unraid beast and my "Mainframe" RenderPC ... and damn ... as i looked and benchmarked a lot of Mainboards and their diagrams .... seems like in 2024 its all about Lanes ...
Thanks for that Video .... :) And even if you made a mistake about AMDs PCIe Lanes - - who cares - dual XEONs do their job pretty well .. tho the Threadrippers are insane :)
So just watching this, and I have a z790 motherboard with 13th gen i9. The CPU has 20 PCI lanes. 16 is being used by the graphic card and 4 is being used for the M.2 card. I also have another M.2, in the second slot, which is using 4 PCI lanes from the Z790 chipset. Both my graphics card and 1st M.2 card are both running at full speed, X16 (gen 4) for the GPU and X4 (gen 4) for the M.2
your mobo is ok, other mobos have a garbage m.2 slot. when you put a disk to garbage m.2 slot, your gpu is slow down
Whats with the annoying background music
I'm Very Glad that i Subscribed to you and didn't regret it. Every Videos you Upload always gives me Fresh Knowledge, Every small Information about PC components🔥🔥 I can Consider myself as a Computer Nerd🤓
Hey, that’s one of Melbourne’s tunnels with the cars in it. Crazy odds of it being footage from my neck of the woods 😎
One of the reasons why I still like my cheap X99 build (X99TF motherboard) with the XEON E5-2696v3 (18core/36 thread; 3.8Ghz turboboost). FORTY (40) PCIE lanes (albeit Gen 3)!
I also like its FOUR(4) CHANNEL MEMORY and ability to support either DDR3 or DDR4 (limited to 2133Mhz, but in four channel)! Sure, it's a decade old processor. But at only $45, it can still deliver a CB R23 multi score of 14,050 pts.
Yes...the IPC isn't great...and its efficiency cannot compare with modern CPU architecture. But it gets the job done well and it runs cool on air...and never exceeds 53C at 20C ambient.
For gaming, it will typically run ~3.7 Ghz all core (turbo unlocked). On full stress loads, the 145W TDP becomes its hard limit and it will revert to 2.8Ghz all core.
Mine is well matched with the venerable RTX 2080Ti.
The kid video bomb is funny 15:11, great video super helpful even a year later.
Note that a lot of motherboards for the AM5 socket and currently AMD Ryzen 7000 processors doesn't support PCIe 5.0 for the x16 slot for GPU or the first M.2 slot. Others support one M.2 at PCIe 5.0 but still only PCIe 4.0 for the x16 slot for GPU.
Finally there are cards that support up to PCIe 5.0 for both the first M.2 and the PCIe x16 slot for the GPU.
Note that this is present in both B650 motherboards and X670 motherboards. So check the documentation so you know what the capabilities of the motherboard is.
The PCIe x16 only supporting up to 4.0 is today no big deal as currently there aren't any graphic cards that support PCIe 5.0. It might actually matter in a year or so when new graphics cards are released. But even then I doubt it will be a dramatic difference between running those cards at PCIe 4.0 or 5.0.
The limit on the M.2 slot is however more real as there are very high performance M.2 drives that support PCIe 5.0. However we're talking about 7GB/s or 15GB/s, and while this sounds drastic it's not really something you are likely to feel the difference of in real life. Besides the maximum transfer rate tends to be limited in span on the fastest drives. Once you've filled the buffer on the drive the write speed will go down a lot. PCIe 5.0 drives also tend to use more energy and run a lot hotter than the PCIe 4.0 drives.
What I'm trying to say is that there are speed limitations on the PCIe slots and the first M.2 slot on a lot of motherboards. And yet that doesn't necessarily mean that they are bad.
But check the specs before you buy so you aren't surprised when PCIe is limited to 4.0 if you upgrade in the future.
Thanks Big time, finally I understand this kind of things, very helpful videos for creators in what to do and what not! THX.
The PLX and PCX chipsets manage the use of all the lanes. Remember, USB, Network, Audio, etc need connections.
Man, how nice is must be to be sponsored by AMD Threadripper…Jesus Christ.
Perfect timing. I'm looking for new mobo right now =D
Pcie Bifurcation. Not switching.
My msi z790 tomahawk I have all 4 pcie slots filled with 4 gen 4 drives and 2 sata drives. My 4090 runs at full speeds. My z490 tomahawk has both nmve slots filled and 4 sata drives it's only a pcie gen 3 "10th gen" and my 3080ti runs at full gen 3 speeds "3080ti is gen 4 but again 10th gen..." I've never had an issue with populating nvme slots and loosing lanes. Even on my old z170 and 6700k build.
Those proart boards have a big problem. The heats sink on the chipset sticks up too far and prevents pCie cards from properly seating in the second slot making the slot worthless. I have 4 of them and I'm thinking about chucking them all in the trash now.
you'll need to custom watercool and get a GPU block.
Excellent topic to discuss keep it up. Learned a lot.
With NVME drives getting cheaper, drive expansions is ideal for AM5 X670 chipset. I have a chugging Z170X motherboard but ok with me as I can directly install two NVME drives plus two SATA drives. The 4 sata ports were disabled when using the second NVME drive but ok with me.
TY. Always found this topic super confusing.
Wondering why we cant have a Z790 gaming board with 3 PCIE lanes.
Like GPU. But i want to add a Capture and Sound Card.
Why when we pay 500 to 1000 for the motherboard do we have to compromise on Whats parts we can add to our pc.
There are several Z790 gaming boards that have 3 full length PCIe slots, though obviously they're not all x16 due to the platform not having enough lanes. Z790 Aorus Master and Tachyon, MSI Z790 MEG Ace and Asus ROG Maximus Hero (not the newer Dark) come to mind immediately.
Now, if you're asking why the mainstream platforms don't have all those PCIe lanes? Well, AMD and Intel want you to buy their HEDT or workstation platforms (=more $$$ for them) if you want more bandwidth.
I just wish that more manufacturers would display on their websites if their motherboard supports pcie bifurcation (to x4x4x4x4).
IVE ALWAYS UNDERSTOOD THE THE M.2 ABOVE GPU SHARES PCIE LANES AND BANDWITH WITH CPU WHICH IS THE FASTES AND BEST W2AY AS IN PERFORMANCE TO USE FOR YOU (OS) ETC AND THE OTHER M.2 SHARES LANES WITH SOUTHBRIDGE CHIPSET DEPENDING ON GEN OF MOBO AND CPU
The Asus dark hero board is a bit confusing for some in the Z790 chipset. if you have an M.two in slot one it will reduce the bandwidth in the PCie x16 slot two to 8x as a priority goes to the m.2. It will not do this in slot 1 of pcie x16. Unlike one of the MSI tomohawk boards will slow down pcie x16 in slot one if you put an nvme in slot one.
its called m.2 fake garbage slot , a m.2 slot that slow down your gpu. thank you asus for the garbage dummy m.2 slot
What's funny is that half lanes is still more than enough on PCIE 5 and often enough on 4. Even the 4090 can't saturate the last gen bus. But we've known this is the case since PCI Express 2 first came out, and it's a great thing.
Someone below a month ago stated a 5-10% performance hit on the GPU at half lane/8x. That might be for gen 4 but I'm looking to future proof the GPU lane at 16x and stick with Gen 4 m.2 to the CPU.
On some Intel processors, the difference needs a better camera, I counted 5-10 more connections on the 2 ghz core 2 duo 667, 2 mb cache laptop cpu, compared to the pentium 2.2, 800 mhz fsb, 1 mb cache.
For gaming a monitor will only use 4 lanes, I have a 13900k with a msi z790 ace, I have 3 monitors with 1 being ran on the igpu in the cpu and the other 2 on my 4080, I also have a gen 5 ssd, my gpu runs on 8 lanes because of this, but I have zero loss in gaming performance because 8 lanes is all the 2 monitors need
i have an Asus TUF b550 chipset motherboard and it has 2x m.2 slots and 6 sata slots. When i plug an M.2 SSD into the second slot it disables 2 of the sata ports and uses that to run the second m.2 slot. So i can have 2x M.2 + 4 Sata drives or 1x M.2 + 6 Sata drives. Also since the second m.2 slot uses bandwidth of 2 Sata ports it limits the second m.2 SSD to 1.5GB/s speed (single Sata 3 is 6gbps so 12gbps = 1,5GB/s).
18:14 Very bold statement. I have the same card (Hyper M.2 X16 gen 4) and it doesn't have a PLX chip on it. It means that if you wanna use the 4 M.2 slots on the boards, you have to bifurcate the given PCI-E X16 to 4x4.
Are you sure that the motherboard supports bifurcation for EVERY X16 slot? Because they are usually supporting it only on the first X16 slot but not the other ones, even if those lanes are also connected to the CPU and not the chipset.
Slots connected to the chipset are most probably not supporting PCI-E bifurcation at all.
Thank you so much bro amazing information very helpful 🫡
The Rog strix Z690 gamming F has 1x pciex16 G5 and 1x M.2 x4, so you still get 16 pcie lanes for your GPU if you plug your M.2 in the top slot.
all z690 and z790 do this - the only time it matters for the top slot is later when gen 5 NVMe's come out - but given they still have no saturated, or otherwise maxed the gen 4 NVMe's yet, I dont think it really matters.
WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY do ASUS not give us the block diagrams?
good info up to the point of pushing AMD and the outragous price tag for a thread ripper system. you can get 9 intel CPUs for the price of one $5000 AMD CPU.
years back I got X99 platform, it was a huge mess because some CPUs had 40 lanes, some had 28 lanes, motherboard schematics online were sparse and so it often happened some PCIe slots were basically x1 from chipset with CPU not being able to provide any lanes to them
For most people it doesn't matter. Just get the biggest ssd you can afford and a good gpu. Plug in, game on.
My new mobo has a diagram that shows 16+4 or 8x2 + 4 . It's important to know that because not all the mobos are cutting the 16 PCIe slot in half while adding a M.2 SSD on the top.
Depends on motherboard and cost
Blanket statements aren't true for every board
Budget board and build probably
Will you see difference yes
I watched a high-end PC run and couldn't handle fps
pcie 4.0 x8 is the same as pcie 3.0 x16 in terms of theoretical bandwidth. im running a 4090 at x8 and it is fine. my board knocks out the m.2_1 because i have to use the bottom pcie x16_2 because i have a watercooled gpu, that won't fit in the first slot.
Also, it is worth checking whether your GPU can use 16 lanes. Some GPUs are wired for x8 and would gain no benefit from a x16 slot over a x8 one.
great info. very good description
We are going to need liquid cooling for even some gen 5 storage based on fan and huge heatsink for just one m.2 drive i saw recently.
So if you're using the m.2 slot at the top of the gpu, there's no lane cut as long as it's a gen 4? So how about using the pcie slots below the top pcie slot? Will it cut the main to half if for example we add an m.2 there?
That’s what i need to know, i think it will be fine if it’s a Gen 4, i dunno I’m so bad at PCI-E Lanes lol. Just look it up in ur mb manual.
@@bogdan12275 if I understand it correctly, the 13th gen in particular, has has up to 1x pcie gen5 x16 and 1x pcie gen4 x4. So a 4th gen m.2 installed in the cpu chipset will not cut down the gpu lane. But if you use the extra pcie slots at the same time, I have no idea either
I think that's a good way of looking at it, but always double check the manual! :)
Dude, read the manual for clarification, it's on the web! For free!
Intel 12th gen, introduced x16 Gen 5 + x4 Gen 4.
Some motherboard, the top most (the closest to the CPU) wired it to Gen 5 lanes, while other Gen 4.
AMD on the other hand, doesn't separate. Meaning, if you installed PCIE 4.0 devices, your entire CPU's PCIE will run at Gen 4 speed.
Thanks for excellent video
99.9% of M.2 adapter cards, like the Asus Hyper cards, DO NOT have lane multiplexer chips on them.
Cards that do usually cost $150 and up.
Most mainstream mainboards, unlike a small number of xeon and Threadripper workstation mainboards, DO NOT feature pci bifurcation on all pcie slots
but no normal person can afford a threadripper pro
Which is ok, as most normal people would never make full use of a Threadripper's potential. And if you want it for gaming, switching it to "game mode" basically turns it into an 8 core anyway. Might as well just go with a 5900x/5950x/7900x/7950x (which has it's own issues early on) or the x3D variants. The primary advatnage of Threadripper show up in massive individual productivity tasks. So, unless you are doing 3D rendering or utilizing a video editor that can leverage the high core count, you don't really need one. If you ARE doing those sort of work loads, you can afford it.
I can , but I choose to keep the lights and water on! 😂
Very little in the way of a performance loss going from x16 to x8 mainly because graphics cards currently cannot saturate the bus.
Yeah, there are many other commentators who say there is zero reason to care about dropping GPU-dedicated lanes from x16 Gen5 lanes to x8 Gen5 lanes because we are years away from graphic cards that need more than x8 lanes or, equivalently speaking, will benefit from x16 lanes.
If true, then connect your Gen5 SSD to the top slot, drop the GPU from x16 to x8, and move on with no reduction in GPU throughput.
Ha! Shouldnt really be an issue now in 2023 but if I use the M.2 on my old X99 board I lose a slot...totally, even though I have a 40 lanes chip. If I use another slot I lose my USB3.1 sockets.
Not sure about my new motherboard (still waiting on the system), it's a TUF Gaming B650 (plus WIFI which I got because X670 is simply overkill for my needs), it has three M.2s-lots and from what i can tell first two are fine to use but if I use the third one I lose access to the second PCIex16-slot (which runs at x4 I think). Since I'm only using one GPU I should be fine. Using an old GPU and will only use a PCIe4-M.2. though I could plug a PCIE5 one in since the first slot is PCIe5. Will use all three slots since I'll transfer the two M.2 I use in my current system...
Yes, Threadripper takes it to another level, including another level of pricing :D Will probably never have one :)
been an intel fanboy for awhile, but this information is making me reconsider my next build. seems like amd/ryzen is the winner. whats the point in buying an intel platform now?
AMD is not the winner. Intel provides 16 lanes to the video card and 4 lanes to the M.2.
Thanks, great info. I'm trying to decide which Z790 mainboard to get for my new pc... still confused. Looking at gigabyte-z790-aorus-elite-x block diagram. Look slike there is one PCI 5 x16 + 1 M.2 gen 4 connected to CPU, all other M2 etc are connected to the chipset. Shoudl I use the VGA + M2 connected to CPU or better to use M2 via chipset ? Maybe some one can recommend some mainboards that are better choice... ? Without breaking the bank :)
Check your manual if it indicates PCIEX16 G5 X16 AND M.2 X4 connected to CPU, then you will get the full 16 lanes for your GPU if you connect your M.2 to the top slot
So what mainboard did you chose?
@@kyrgeorge Gigabyte Auros Elite X wifi7 with g.skill ram @6000hz. Just had it few days, so far installed Linux without issues beside no wifi7. Win 11 works fine when installing using their media creation tool (not stand alone ISO), no M2 drives found, can't add mb drivers... The mb feels great, heavy and high quality, should last for next 5 years or so. On papper this new pc is 2.5x faster than my old pc with, but in reality for every day tasks the speed is about same to be honest. :)
This is definitely CPU + motherboard dependent. Best bet with intel z790 is to leave the top gen 5 m.2 slot alone and setup a RAID 0 or 10 with 4x 1tb gen 4 SSDs. Or even do a RAID 0 on 2x SSD gen 4 on the chipset. I get 17k mb/sec read/write on m.2 gen 4 which crushes a single gen 5 m.2. My corei9 14900k smokes on a Gigabyte Extreme X with full x16 on my RTX4070. Now on my sons amd 7950x3d AM5 platform which has 4 gen 5 m.2 slots, he can RAID 0 up to 4 gen 5 m.2 and 20+k mb sec read/write. And keep x16 on his Nitro 7900XTX. Can’t touch the AMD pci lane support for Gen 5!
When you need a fast storage on a desktop PC Intel has a vacation in Philippines. And that’s a not a rocked science to route PCIe lanes in a proper way. Let blues not to cry next time
PS It would be interesting if you spot a bit an issue with a connection a PCIe/M.2 slot to a certain Ryzen crystal. I think with connecting NVMes to different crystal we can “ruin” entire RAID.
I looked carefully at my Intel CPU 12900ks specs which is a 16+4 pci lane and my Asus Z690 rog hero board which indicates that all SSD NVme sticks are running through the chipset and none run off the 16 PCIe lane. Apparently Asus doesn't think that any Nvme SSD should run from that but rather the 4 lane chipset is sufficient. That means my GPU should get the full 16 lanes unless I was to plug something else into the PCIe lane or add another GPU. I believe this is correct. Please advise if I am wrong.
Really upset that I didn't end up getting the TR Pro. I was watching the videos and nothing was being talked about when it comes to liens switching after. I purchased it. Now everyone is talking about it.... Im stuck with a PC I hate working with now
7:00 When is the gen 5 Wrx80 and gen 5 Threadripper Pro going to come out...I know it's coming...lol.
Okay I get it now but three question, first question is does Integrated GPU use the PCIe lanes too despite being located in the same die as the CPU? and second question is does Laptop/Handheld PC Gaming motherboard (PCB) also have the chipset in Desktop motherboard or not? third question is does Laptop with DISCRETE GPU use PCIe lanes too?
I’m genuinely asking because I know the answer for the first question (not really sure about the second one) but I just wanna BE CLEAR about it so please BE NICE all 😁
So glad I got duped by weeb marketing and got a Z690 ROG Hero Maximus, no issues with PCIe lane sharing/switching. Only know that putting an m.2 drive in the very top slot near the CPU and a GPU in the top PCIe x16 slot and each have full bandwidth. Now, doing some research, the ROG Strix Z690 is not that convenient and it will throttle down the PCIe x16 to x8 if you put the M.2 drive in the top slot.
In order to get the manual you have to purchase the motherboard, all I want to know which motherboards to avoid that will cause this problem by dropping down your GPU down from 16 to 8, I want to avoid getting these motherboards. I don't mind which ever motherboard I have to use that won't cause this problem.
Most motherboards stopped giving the manuals with them already.
I cannot tell you the number of people that complain about a add in card to add USB 3 gen 2 and complain that they are not getting the advertised speed or other update cards that are not working as advertised and they don't think about the fact that maybe their hardware motherboard, CPU or chipset does not support anything more than 16 PCIe lanes, or they will say sometimes it works and for no reason will stop working and they did have extra PCIe lanes but they have already added one or two additional cards in the PC and think the 2nd or 3rd add-in card should work just because they had an empty slot.
It’s not super critical for me as a photographer, but I was upset when I noticed that myASUS rogue maximus cut down, bandwidth or disabled I think two of my data ports Or cut their bandwidth down if I installed a second nvme drive. Especially since all my SATA ports are populated with drives. .
I wonder if it’s worthwhile to buy a creator motherboard instead of a gaming one, and if it also provides additional headroom between upgrade periods because of all the additional slots.
Shame I did not find this video prior to me purchasing the topx3d ryzen on a Asrock Taichi motherboard atx-e. If I knew I would have gotten this pro cpu motherboard.
What do you think is faster for the games data installation ? An 2TB M.2 drive encrypted with Bitlocker that is connected directly to the CPU with its x4 lane (as C: main drive). Or the games data on a second 2TB M.2 drive that is not bitlocker encrypted and not connected directly to the CPU with the lane, but via x4 to the chipset ?
Isn’t Intel 20 lanes plus the dmi lanes to the chipset?
Therefore 16x5.0 for GPU and 4x4.0 for the first m.2 which is always dedicated…
Everything else comes from the chipset ?
Yes. The video is very misleading. There is no reduction in video card PCIe when using the first M.2 slot.
Just confirmed it. RTX 40 GPU on PCIE 5.0 slot on MSI z790 Tomahawk, added a second gen 4 nvme to one of the PCIE 4.0 slots and my GPU is still at x16 per Hardware Info 64.... Now in the future when I add a PCIE 5.0 GPU that might change
I wanna play Sims 3 on the threadripper. Will I get 60fps?
🤦
You are not the troll we wanted but the troll we needed
Mother of GOD......... now I have to look at diagrams to make sure I can use all my PCI lanes. Good god. I should have to check this stuff out in a diagram it should be right in the main specs. Also, not even a think to begin with. The fact there are motherboards out there that are setup to fail by design kind of pisses me off. Now its going to be even harder to find the right motherboard. I don't even think there is a way to even search for the correct motherboard that isn't FUBAR'ed.
a bit of a problem? well, if i use the first m2 slot on my z690 Strix F then i have occasional stutters and laggs in games and often on desktop stuff. my 12600kf should be strong enough to handle a 4060, a 970 evo plus w11 and 980 pro game drive. the 4060 is pcie 4.0 8x by design so it should work but it doesn't. so i have to use the 3 m2 slots coming from the z690 chipset to have a decent experience.
My Asus ROG STRIX B450-I GAMING board says in the manual - I only loose Pcie lanes if I populate the second Nvme on the back of the board - 1st one is always full speed & GPU socket full speed - The way that Asrock Intel board does it is garbage 💩💩 looking at an Asrock board for AM5, will have to double check it for this switching nonsense lol.