As always, thanks for a lovely test! The DPA certainly sounds like a serious contender, and I look forward to a rycote comparison! However, schmall is no equivalent for petite in Danish. We would say that a petite microphone is “lille”, more like little. “Smal” is a Danish Word too, but it is closer to slim than to small/petite :) I hope this is understandable…
Mikkel - thanks for dropping by and for a free Danish lesson much appreciated. Lille makes perfect sense and good to get the proper definition of smal. 2017 and Rycote HC 22 video coming! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk I really appreciate your channel and drop by regularly. A petite Danish lesson, though, is nothing compared to your lovely readings of classics. And I really look forward to hearing your tests and opinions on the rycote shotguns. Tada(?) Mikkel
While the 416 is an obvious competitor, I am really curious what the difference is to a 4017b. The price difference is half, and the specs don't really suggest much difference (other than the 4017 being modular with different preamp options and the presence boost and low cut options of the "b" preamp which could always be applied with more control in post).
That is indeed a good question. I heard from a guy who knows a guy who might know a guy who works at DPA, who said the said the capsule is the same or at least very similar. But when I checked all the DPA videos and written materials I found no mention of that so I left it out of the video. Part of me thinks - if I already make a capsule why would I go to all the hassle of tooling up for another... but then the answer to that could be price of course. Time will not allow the comparison this time ( I don't have the 4017) but maybe once supply settles down. Thanks for dropping by. Ta like, ppm6.
Hello Alistair! Thanks for this! I made an arguably foolish or fanatical (take your pick) decision to sell an organ and buy a 4017B and Rycote zeppelin package deal. I’ve owned the 416 and I far prefer not just the flat sound of the 4017B (nearly as good as the CM4 😂) and the fact that it’s smaller and lighter. And did I mention the off-Axis?!! whereas the 416 is unusable, I’d go so far as to say you might even deliberately use the off-axis on the 4017B to capture “overhead conversation” in a dramatic context. Try that with a 416, it’s yuck. Also you can flip the presence switch on the MMP-B preamp and make the 4017B sound like a 416 if you need to. I would love to hear the 2017 side by side with the 4017B, particularly the off-axis!
Hi TBD - sorry I missed this incoming. Thanks for some well expressed real world info on the 4017B - I had the 2017 for only a very brief loan and couldn't get a 4017B to try alongside. I think to be fair to Sennheiser I should really have tried the 8060 but again I couldn't get one at short notice. The world is a strange place though, when I first reviewed the 4017B back in 2016 - I let the Doctor Who guys have a go and the location recordist didn't like it, and particularly didn't like the off axis - I forget but he might have been a Schoeps CMIT guy. Anyway you've balanced that up nicely and I think time has told in favour of the 4017. I really wish I had a Sanken CSM-1 to try against the 2017. Hopefully there will be another opportunity when loan stock is in better supply. Ta like, ppm6.
Interesting. I much prefer the sound of the DPA, particularly off-axis, to that of the Sennheiser. How do you rate that AKG C469? How does it compare with their CK69 capsule for the C480?
Hi Ivan - thanks for the feedback. The 469 - I was lazy here with my nomenclature, it's the 460 body with the CK69 capsule. Now if you have the 480 which I think improves over the 460 in the bass then the CK69 is a great addition if you can find one. However there are two things, the CK69 is very hard to find and expensive. I think I paid £550 for a 480 and the 69 - your getting within £300 of the new price of the DPA. And that's a brand new warranted microphone. Second maybe not so obvious from the video but the AKG combination of amplifier body and capsule is massive compared to the MKH416 and ginormous up against the 2017. So not really desirable on a pole you have to swing all day and only to be considered if you already have a 480 body or you get a really good deal on the CK69. I know I didn't do off axis for the 469, but if you flick between the 469 and the 2017 at normal incidence, what did you think of the difference? Ta like, ppm6.
If I was buying a gun mic. nowadays I would get an MKH 8060 - the 416 is a bit noisy nowadaays. Also - look closely at the 416 - the interference tube is actiualy a lost shorter than it looks - the capsule is actually about half way down and is likely to be a lot closer to the length of the DPA than you think.
Thanks John - glad to get your Sennheiser expertise. Should we be sad at the passing of the MKH60? It was clearly better than the 416 but the price difference was not insignificant! I think DPA have taken the bull by the horns here and we should be grateful for that. And to even more important things, how about those new Gefell 400 series mics - I can't see them on the MG website!?
Started off with an MKH60 and found it a bit dark sounding for most of the run and gun TV stuff I was doing at the time. Great for controlled outdoor environments though. @@ppmtv-qh9qk
Thanks Colin - I know what you mean, my pal Terry, hi Tel!, prefers the K66 series to the 416 because they are brighter and when you have the mic in a full rycote a bit of presence boost help you cut through. Having said that I might swap if not my arm at least some of my toes for an MKH60 in really nice nick. Thank for the real world experience. Ta like, ppm6.
The Sennheiser MKH-XX mics are top, top notch. Sad in a way that the 40 is no longer with us. I don't doubt the 50's quality at all. And you may well be right (I don't have a 50 here, but I loved the 60 I had on loan) but the 2017 is half the price...ish. I'm looking forward to the new Gefell 400 series - small Gefells. Ta like, ppm6.
As always, thanks for a lovely test! The DPA certainly sounds like a serious contender, and I look forward to a rycote comparison! However, schmall is no equivalent for petite in Danish. We would say that a petite microphone is “lille”, more like little. “Smal” is a Danish Word too, but it is closer to slim than to small/petite :) I hope this is understandable…
Mikkel - thanks for dropping by and for a free Danish lesson much appreciated. Lille makes perfect sense and good to get the proper definition of smal. 2017 and Rycote HC 22 video coming! Ta like, ppm6.
@@ppmtv-qh9qk I really appreciate your channel and drop by regularly. A petite Danish lesson, though, is nothing compared to your lovely readings of classics. And I really look forward to hearing your tests and opinions on the rycote shotguns.
Tada(?) Mikkel
While the 416 is an obvious competitor, I am really curious what the difference is to a 4017b. The price difference is half, and the specs don't really suggest much difference (other than the 4017 being modular with different preamp options and the presence boost and low cut options of the "b" preamp which could always be applied with more control in post).
That is indeed a good question. I heard from a guy who knows a guy who might know a guy who works at DPA, who said the said the capsule is the same or at least very similar. But when I checked all the DPA videos and written materials I found no mention of that so I left it out of the video. Part of me thinks - if I already make a capsule why would I go to all the hassle of tooling up for another... but then the answer to that could be price of course. Time will not allow the comparison this time ( I don't have the 4017) but maybe once supply settles down. Thanks for dropping by. Ta like, ppm6.
Hello Alistair! Thanks for this! I made an arguably foolish or fanatical (take your pick) decision to sell an organ and buy a 4017B and Rycote zeppelin package deal. I’ve owned the 416 and I far prefer not just the flat sound of the 4017B (nearly as good as the CM4 😂) and the fact that it’s smaller and lighter. And did I mention the off-Axis?!! whereas the 416 is unusable, I’d go so far as to say you might even deliberately use the off-axis on the 4017B to capture “overhead conversation” in a dramatic context. Try that with a 416, it’s yuck. Also you can flip the presence switch on the MMP-B preamp and make the 4017B sound like a 416 if you need to. I would love to hear the 2017 side by side with the 4017B, particularly the off-axis!
Hi TBD - sorry I missed this incoming. Thanks for some well expressed real world info on the 4017B - I had the 2017 for only a very brief loan and couldn't get a 4017B to try alongside. I think to be fair to Sennheiser I should really have tried the 8060 but again I couldn't get one at short notice. The world is a strange place though, when I first reviewed the 4017B back in 2016 - I let the Doctor Who guys have a go and the location recordist didn't like it, and particularly didn't like the off axis - I forget but he might have been a Schoeps CMIT guy. Anyway you've balanced that up nicely and I think time has told in favour of the 4017. I really wish I had a Sanken CSM-1 to try against the 2017. Hopefully there will be another opportunity when loan stock is in better supply. Ta like, ppm6.
Interesting. I much prefer the sound of the DPA, particularly off-axis, to that of the Sennheiser.
How do you rate that AKG C469? How does it compare with their CK69 capsule for the C480?
Hi Ivan - thanks for the feedback. The 469 - I was lazy here with my nomenclature, it's the 460 body with the CK69 capsule. Now if you have the 480 which I think improves over the 460 in the bass then the CK69 is a great addition if you can find one. However there are two things, the CK69 is very hard to find and expensive. I think I paid £550 for a 480 and the 69 - your getting within £300 of the new price of the DPA. And that's a brand new warranted microphone. Second maybe not so obvious from the video but the AKG combination of amplifier body and capsule is massive compared to the MKH416 and ginormous up against the 2017. So not really desirable on a pole you have to swing all day and only to be considered if you already have a 480 body or you get a really good deal on the CK69. I know I didn't do off axis for the 469, but if you flick between the 469 and the 2017 at normal incidence, what did you think of the difference? Ta like, ppm6.
Thank you for the off axis testing. Humidity and RF resistance next… please 😬
Good ideas, if time allows before it has to go back.... Ta like, ppm6.
If I was buying a gun mic. nowadays I would get an MKH 8060 - the 416 is a bit noisy nowadaays.
Also - look closely at the 416 - the interference tube is actiualy a lost shorter than it looks - the capsule is actually about half way down and is likely to be a lot closer to the length of the DPA than you think.
Thanks John - glad to get your Sennheiser expertise. Should we be sad at the passing of the MKH60? It was clearly better than the 416 but the price difference was not insignificant! I think DPA have taken the bull by the horns here and we should be grateful for that. And to even more important things, how about those new Gefell 400 series mics - I can't see them on the MG website!?
Started off with an MKH60 and found it a bit dark sounding for most of the run and gun TV stuff I was doing at the time. Great for controlled outdoor environments though. @@ppmtv-qh9qk
Thanks Colin - I know what you mean, my pal Terry, hi Tel!, prefers the K66 series to the 416 because they are brighter and when you have the mic in a full rycote a bit of presence boost help you cut through. Having said that I might swap if not my arm at least some of my toes for an MKH60 in really nice nick. Thank for the real world experience. Ta like, ppm6.
I’ve found the Senny MKH-50 so good indoors and outdoors I’ve yet to bother with any kind of shotgun. Not sure the little DPA 2017 will best it.
The Sennheiser MKH-XX mics are top, top notch. Sad in a way that the 40 is no longer with us. I don't doubt the 50's quality at all. And you may well be right (I don't have a 50 here, but I loved the 60 I had on loan) but the 2017 is half the price...ish. I'm looking forward to the new Gefell 400 series - small Gefells. Ta like, ppm6.