THE 27 CLUB: How we're killing our favorite musicians
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
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So many artists in "The 27 Club" died young: Kurt Cobain, Layne Staley, Amy Winehouse, Lil Peep, Juice WRLD, Chester Bennington, and more. There's also the epidemic of rap violence (Pop Smoke, King Von, etc). Are the fans to blame for "The 27 Club"?
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0:00 Intro
3:03 Kurt Cobain & Layne Staley
5:30 Lil Peep
9:05 Amy Winehouse
12:42 Britney Spears & the role of the media
16:31 Rap & street violence
18:16 Juice WRLD & industry enablers 
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Great video and super interesting topic but I don't understand why you've added a sample of Suicide Silence's You Only Live Once music video because Mitch Lucker died of a car accident and as far as I'm aware he was not suffering from drug addiction or like mental health issues so I did not fully understood the reason why you've added it
This is awful video! People are responsible for their own actions, but you have decided to blame fans! Shame on you!
@@VatnyyLiberal what are you on about
Some of these were murders educate yourself on gematria finn my friend
@@VatnyyLiberal if "people are responsible for their own actions" that includes fans. How someone is treated by others can affect their mental health.
One of the weirdest dynamic between fans and artist for me is when fans think when the artist got sober the art is not good anymore.
I hate that this true. We need to normalize artists getting clean and accepting who they are on the other side.
Sometimes the music is just better when they have addiction issues. Like early metallica or slipknot. They were amazing and aggressive when they were alcoholics. They got sober and im happy for them. But the decline in quality is noticeable.
I remember kid cudi came out with that banger album and took off then immediately caught shit for this specifically. And I think it was just him saying he didn’t smoke weed.
It seems like society values someone who did drugs and got clean a lot more than someone who just never did drugs. It's like if you want credibility or attention, you have to practically hit rock bottom and then dig yourself out and then you're a praiseworthy hero with valuable life experience, but if you just avoid drugs people think you're a nerd. Or. Even worse, they don't think about you at all.
I see a lot of that narrative with some older Asking Alexandria fans regarding their old music and their previous "sex, drugs and rock n' roll" image. I might like their old stuff better, too, but in no way do I think they should go back down that (allegedly label-forced) path again. It was just making them screwed up (especially Danny Worsnop, who almost died because of his drug problems).
Well done Finn, a much needed discussion. Ozzy talked about his addiction saying "if you're working in an office and came in drunk wearing a dress, they'd send you home or get help. When I did it they said, 'well, it's gonna be a great show tonight.'"
Layne Staley was definitely the one that opened my eyes to all of this at the time. That guy's demise was devastating. He turned into a recluse and died all alone, without no one even being able to recognize him. It's heartbreaking what happens to all these people, amazing human beings that carry so much pain. Money can't buy happiness.
His girl died from heroin and after that he went off the deep end. I don’t blame him tbh. If I lost my girl I’d do the same
drugs are bad bro
6 years shooting dope in isolation. Crazy how biographical three-legged dog is. "Why's it have to be this way?"
Nutshell on unplugged…. You can feel his pain
It’s the artists fault that they died. Plenty of artists that DONT die . We are conflating artist with Junkie . You don’t have to be a junkie to be an artist . And if you are a successful artists , you have more of an advantage for getting the best over any of your fans . Layne and Kurt leaned into the medias discovery of their use .
That Britney paparazzi era got seriously dark. At one point, a restaurant owner apparently offered Britney a "private" table to get away from the cameras, only to direct the paps to that same location for a payoff. The look on Britney's face afterwards was hard to see.
I remember right after Chester died there was video of Aaron Carter clearly in crisis going around online and people thought it was funny. And I remember saying "you wanted Chester to reach out for help, but then you turn around and make fun of someone else for doing exactly that"
Great example, and sadly we see how that played out
The death of Amy Winehouse was the eye opening moment for me. We all literally saw this poor girl slowly kill herself, and if they weren't cheering in the audience, they were laughing at the tabloids. Even going so far as to guess when (not if) she would die. Each time I'd see her on TV she looked physically worse. When she died I looked back and realized just how sick it was the way everyone treated her, myself included.
I get what you’re saying, but what were we to do? We had to hope that those close to her could influence her in the right direction. Sometimes no amount of help will have an effect.
It was a quick death.
She had been dry for a good while.
So dry that...
1 binge killed her.
She drank like she used to.
For one last time.
...
@@ASM881 not trash talk her when she's alive and say she's the best after dying. Lot people do this and it's sad fake love. There are real ones too but there lots like these...
you were probably cheering like most people and thats the unfortunate truth
The Amy Winehouse situation is disgusting if I'm being honest. Now that she's dead, everyone acts like she was a tragic loss and a musical genius 'taken too soon' (which she was by the way) but while she was alive people hated her. The media treated her like a punching bag and it was completely socially acceptable to mock her and berate her for being an out-of-control addict. People completely flipped as soon as she died but the warning signs were clearly there and she could've been helped. Everyone knew it. Instead we decided to encourage her self-destruction for our entertainment.
I saw her live at a festival in 2008 and she was great. I felt bad for her and seeing her live really made me appreciate her when before I was indifferent.
It's really messed up how our society accepts, mythologizes and commodifies martyrdom of our favorite artists, seen as products of fiction and not human beings. It's almost like we want our favorite artists to die the moment we liked them the most, to eternalize that moment in time you were 'there when it happened'.
Exactly
Very well said. This is exactly a large piece of the problem.
What lol? Ive never wanted my favorite artists to die just because they got some sort of fame
@@Sheenoobie It's not whether or not you have. How many times have you heard some thing along the lines of 'I remember when Cobain/Hendrix/Joplin died/was alive.'?
@@Sheenoobie It's not you, but some people definetely have that mindset.
I think your point of fans putting that pressure on artists by saying "you saved my life" is incredibly spot on. I almost wish there was a training ground for artists to help prepare them for the kind of truths and pressures that people put on them.
To me a perfect example of this topic would be Ian Curtis from joy division, granted it wasn't the fans fault for his demise and not many understood his lyrics, but he was absolutely writing songs that were just a cry for help, the song Shadowplay described this topic perfectly by basically saying everyone was just watching him die every time he preformed and that no one even cared or noticed.
His story made me so sad, he was way too young and going trough some serious health problems that were aggravated when he had to perform. I just don’t understand how no one around him could stop this
@Jeff Yap what's yr issue?
@@meredithnarvaez1367 from what I've gathered from interviews people described ian as the type of person who didn't like to express his feelings as a way to not burden others, it's unfortunate but a lot people are like that sadly
But that's what made their sound. It's called expression.
How did Ian Curtis die ??
I remember seeing the Avicii documentary "Avicii: True Stories" where you can see how much stress performing put on him and how much he was pressured by his agent/management into doing it, even when he was clearly stating he can't take it anymore.
I find that interesting because I know we have you know things that are our responsibilities but like in his case or in anybody's case when something's going to kill you it's better just to leave just drop everything and get the hell out
those motherfuckers killed that kid
“What’s my drug of choice? Well what have you gottttt?” ~ Alice (Junkhead).
When I was once at a really low point in my life about a year ago I was only a weed and whiskey type of person but after becoming homeless at 18 I started to not give a fuck anymore about those 2 familiar habits and each time I’d get offered anything from pills to coke to Molly I could hear those lyrics in my head knowing damn well this isn’t what I do……
Glad I’m out of that shit place in life now. Alice carried me thru those dark days,
R.I.P. Layne🖤
lol
Been there too bro. Glad you got out too
@@Matt_Aero jesus christ.
@Rips I've read that book numerous times I went through the same thing after my dad died when I was 18 I think I read go ask Alice when I was in middle school for the first time
@Rips your comment really hits home for me. I'm thankfully in recovery now, but at 19 after becoming heavily addicted to opiates after 2 big surgeries 6 weeks apart, I thought the same way. For a long time, I destroyed myself with anything I could get my hands on. My heart hurts for Anyone who goes through addiction. Love to you and all the best.
The part about fans not wanting celebrities to get better is so true. This is a completely different genre, but I always see jokes on Twitter about people wanting Mary J Blige to go through a turmoil so she could put out a fire album. When she had a divorce, everyone was cheering for her pain. All they kept commenting about was how her next album was going to be amazing. That always stuck with me
Mcr and fob made me realize that recovery is more important than people give it credit for. That true fans should hope that artists recover. I get inspired by seeing artists I love recover because it gives me hope that I can recover. That it's something I can strive for too.
The celebrity death that deeply affected me the most was Mac Miller, seeing as we were close in age it felt like we were growing up together. Watching him grow out of the immature phase (frat rap) and turn into the artist he became was amazing. Seeing his life cut short still doesn’t sit well with me. RIP Mac Miller
Most Dope forever.
I miss Mac Miller too! I'm a big fan! I wasn't really into his "frat rap" type stuff but I got into more of his of his other stuff. Mainly the things he wrote about life and addiction as well as mental health. He was a really cool and smart laid back guy. Such a shame he had to die so young. He really was just at the beginning of his career. His album 'Circles' was nominated for a Grammy posthumously but it sadly didn't win although he deserved it! R.I.P. Mac!
mac’s death hit me soooo deep too. He was an extremely talented artist and it’s so sad he wasn’t able to overcome his addiction. He spoke so heavily about his substance issues in his music too… so, so sad.
Mac died a day before my birthday. I remember it hitting soooo hard as everybody I know and myself jammed to his music. Definitely miss him
This is exactly how I explain it to people! Like we grew together in my mind through my life’s ups and downs. This will always hurt, he was on his way to real greatness.
You always do these topics the justice they deserve. You don't sugar coat things but still handle the subjects with care. Thanks for the dope content.
Thank you for watching!
"Thanks for the dope content."
I see what you did there.
: 👁
@@ThePunkRockMBA Thank you for reading all the comments Finn. This is a good community you all are making
@@ThePunkRockMBA indeed very insightful everything you put out. Gives you a meaningful perspective way of thinking of things.
Chester's music still helps me. His death really hit me since we were the same age.
Dirt is one of the heaviest albums ever made, period. Its emotional content is so dark, so grueling, so painfully honest that as brilliant as it is, it's an incredibly painful listen. I have thankfully never had a drug problem, but you can feel Layne's anguish and emotional and physical pain through every tortured line. Even as a kid, listening to that album kind of ingrained in me that heavy drugs were absolutely nothing to fuck around with.
Well done Finn. As always you bring honesty to the topic, but you do it with a light touch.
Sad how two days before you released this, Aaron Carter had also just died :( Seemed like a super sad, super tragic situation too. Saw a bunch of posts on reddit with people saying nothing but genuinely good things about him as a human being. May not have been fans of his music, but his kind personality really won a lot of people over to just be fans of him. 34 is still way too young to die :(
I thought of AC, too. So terribly sad... 😢
Aaron was 2 years younger than me. I saw that kid come up as an aspiring artist myself. I even liked Backstreet Boys back then, so finding out Nick's little brother was making his own mark was interesting.
I was never going to be a fan, but I noticed, especially as the years went on, the feedback from fans of Aaron were really positive in his favor. He loved to know he made people feel good with his creations and he went out of his way to let them know it means a great deal to him.
Regardless of that, Aaron could not keep up with the sadness of accepting the reality of this life we humans live. He didn't give up. He just couldn't balance his rationality and his mayhem at once anymore.
The realm of the public pop culture idol is a system that utilizes its perpetuity in taking advantage of those who lack the mental strength to see and know their own worth.
What's crazy is that I have the same birthday as Aaron Carter. The family issues were practically the same on my end. I died during surgery but was revived 2 months ago. The whole reconciliation process was tough considering I completely understand the whole losing trust and losing friends from past actions. Either people were unresponsive or accepted the apology and I never heard from them again. My sister was born in January and his brother Nick was born in January as well. I don't know about you but it's honestly freaky to find this all out.
I haven't seen the stuff on Reddit but the comments on all of his social media accounts were like 90% negative. Most of it about his looks and asking about drug use and how many drugs he was doing. Some of it really nasty talking about how he takes care of his child and how his wife/fiance was gonna cheat on him. It was constant and completely unnecessary. Tbh I have no idea why he continued to post cause it was bad.
Whats even crazier is the fact that a huge amount of people clowned him and dunked on him when he was alive, and nkw that hes gone, those same people are posting comments saying how sad it is and RIP and all this bullshit. They all switched up so fast, its disgusting.
It’s interesting that you mentioned Gerard Way briefly because the way that people romanticize artists not only during their very public downfall but also after the fact makes me think of the lyric “and if by his own hand his spirit flies, take his body as a relic to be canonized” which, knowing it’s coming from someone who’s been in the scene for a long time and who’s in recovery, is heartbreaking but very accurate. Gerard and his brother are both very lucky to be alive and not be another example in this video.
Also something parallel to this that’s fucked up is when people follow folks who are in recovery but still glorify “funny” clips from when they were…not well.
The number of times I see “pumpkin peasy pumpkin pie motherfucker” references for example just feels really weird and macabre.
For real. I feel sort of bad having seen it because it's a really personal audio recording, but online there's a clip of some message Frank send out in 2004 about Gerard having gone missing, with a note referencing an artist who'd died at 27 (same age Gerard was.) It makes you think about how the idolization of stars after their death may incentivize living artists to be the next. The '27 club' is fucked up
Edit: Jim Morrison from The Doors
same thing that happened to Peep happened to Hank Williams Sr. he died in the back seat of his car being driven to a concert, and the driver drove him around for 8 hours after he was dead, no one even checked on him. Hank Williams, also had some of the saddest songs I've ever heard, he was years ahead of his time.
This goes back decades, Bon Scott, Jim Morrison...the list goes on. I think you nailed why. Being on stage and touring nonstop requires almost a superhuman personality and what goes up must come down. Just so thankful Dave Gahan came back to life and beat his heroin addiction. To see those that win and the grace and understanding they gain as they get older is encouraging.
Yes! Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix too. Janis’ story reminds me a lot of Amy Winehouse.
Cliff Burton
Steve Clark
Etc etc
I remember that Ozzy would snap out of character when fans would tell him that they were dealing with depression or drugs. A drug addict himself, he knew that this was some serious shit not to glorify or dismiss.
Perhaps why Ozzy is still here, he knew when to stop.
@@Patrick-pc3vq Ozzy still being here is pure luck. He has continued to struggle with drugs his whole life.
@@snowfish1121 nah he’s a genetic mutant
As a songwriter who writes a lot about my struggles with addiction I’ve felt that way even though I have a smaller following. I’ve had producers and bookers encourage my addiction in a way and I get stressed when people come up to me after performances and talk all the time.
I'll never forget Kurt's passing. It was my 13th birthday and I was having a party that night to celebrate it. My Dad told me that morning and showed me the news paper clipping. I'll literally never forget the moment in the house I grew up in by the front door. It's one of those moments learning your hero is gone. It crushed all of us and turned into a sort of memorial celebration of Nirvana and Kurt at the party. You have to understand how big they were in 1994. I couldn't understand suicide and mental health back then because I was too young but now I'm 41 and get it, as I am a sufferer myself now of depression. It really hurts thinking about how he literally had songs like "I Hate Myself and Want to Die" but we all just cheered and laughed it off. RIP to all these young gifted individuals. PRMBA always doing great work.
One of the things I really, really love about Senses Fail is how Buddy got sober and wrote songs about getting sober, finding love, and coming out. Now he writes songs about wanting to be a good father. All their early songs about alcoholism obviously struck a chord and it was those lyrics that made me a huge fan but as I go out of those darker places it was good to see the same happen for him.
Day 1 senses fail fan and was so happy to see buddy get out of the depression for the most part coming full circle and writing positive songs
i’m a huge peep fan, i connected with his music because i related to it so much. i miss him i wish it didn’t go down like this.
I understand not thinking that fans are to blame for all of these, but to think that fans and artist mental health are unrelated is actually baffling. Great video, certainly a conversation worth having.
Chester dying was a earth shattering moment for me. To think of him dying alone the way he did breaks my heart. He was so obviously in pain and that’s why I connected so much with linkin park’s music. I still cry when I hear him live and it makes me think that if he can’t get through it how can I? But somehow we keep going, life goes on and we really are just specks of dust in the universe. RIP Chester.
His death broke my heart into millions of pieces. I can never really forget that. Linkin Park and his voice has really helped me through the hardest times ever. RIP Chester Bennington 💔
Speaking to this topic, Lingua Ignota was always appreciated for her rawness in dealing with difficult topics in her life like abusive relationships, which resulted in some horribly dark material. You can hear her pain in these songs more strongly than just about any other artist.
Recently, Kristen Hayter said she no longer wishes to relive her most painful moments on stage every night and is going to retire all of her current material, and hinted at possibly starting a new music project which will take her in a new direction.
I think contrary to what is being discussed here, I've heard a lot of people hearing her music for the first time and saying "wow, I hope she is doing better now" as well as supporting this decision to move forward, which is a nice change of pace. Hopefully this kind of thing will be more common in the future.
That is so great to hear. I also hope she's in a better place now.
Those songs are masterworks, but they're masterworks *because* they're so goddamn overwhelming and oppressive. If she doesn't feel like she can keep performing them over and over, by all means, I completely support her doing something else.
I'm really glad you're talking about this. Saw Bright Eyes at WWWY last week and it was clear he needs help as he literally had an episode in front of tens of thousands of people. Hope he and others like him get help while they still can
I started listing to Bright Eyes back in the very early 2000's and I was convinced that Conner was going to join the 27 club. He was not doing good back then. But VERY glad that he is still here and doing music and living his life.
i do think about him from time to time, and was happily surprised at the WWWY slot, but am not at all surprised at your appraisal of the performance and his state of mind. I put him in the same "risk category" as Elliot Smith,...and not that its a competition, but there is a whole other level to these two bois and the pain they have channeled in their beautiful art and musings on love, and without mentioning details,..."the kids of today" would be shocked at how "hardcore" Elliot was in life, and his route to death. 🙏rip ES,...and get well soon Bright Eyes💜
What happened. And I hope he gets better as well!
My favorite episode of yours so far. As a touring musician myself, this hits home.
Thanks for speaking on behalf of the artists. 🤘
Dude this channel is so good. So many of your videos are so helpful as an artist just putting their stuff out there, it's comforting hearing someone who cares so much about any artist and the music industry as a whole. Keep advocating for the underdogs my guy!
I'm glad you're talking about this
it's hard to differentiate between an artist sharing how he/she felt at a time in their life, and what they're currently going through
This need more views, this was so well said and even more eye opening. Thank you for this really got me thinking about what some of my favorite artists are going through.
We've lost so many talented people at such a young age and there are many others who are currently struggling with addiction that we don't know about.
🐑
A beautifully made video, and a topic that everyone can understand and see music in a different light. Well done Finn. I’m always here for you and anyone else.
I saw this heavily when it came to the band Say Anything. The lead singer Max Bemis struggled heavily with bipolar, depression, etc and while it's arguably true some of their "best" music was when Max was in the trenches, their later stuff is pretty damn good as well. The difference is that Max was able to control his issues, got married, had kids, and the later music reflected that. Fans were always very split about it. They loved their stuff when he was in manic strages of bi polar but now that he wants to write about his wife and kids and being happy the band just "isn't the same" anymore.
Another amazing video! I really liked this topic because I am such a huge fan of basically every artist in this video who has passed (with the exception of Pop Smoke and the other guy, which still sucks they died. RIP) This one genuinely was an eye opener.
Brilliant work, man. Your compassion and mature outlook on this brings a tear to my eye; thank you.
I really commend you for speaking out about this and your own struggles with addiction and mental health- I really connected with this video bc im a big AIC fan and know all about Layne Staley and really connect with that band's music and Layne's struggle and find it so sad, still. Im a recovered addict and have been for over 10 years but it was hard and looking back it could've been so easy for me to take the easy way out but Thank God - something in me just told me that I didnt wanna throw my life away and go down that path- and let me tell u - i had to get rid of people i loved and really have faith in myself to do it- so it's understandable why so many people slip through the cracks and ill always have understanding and kindness for people who are strruggling...i write and my goal is to help other people through my writing and so hopefully what i went through will b worth something if it can help others. But im touched by your video and its sad to see anyone struggling- bc i know how it feels firsthand- yeah- when u see Layne singing at the unplugged concert ppl are clapping but its a shame bc he's obviously struggling and in pain. Thanks for reminding us to stop and take a deeper look at what and who is around us and what theyre really trying to say- through their music or whatever medium it is. And thanks for saying it in a kind way that we can all relate to...good job.
I think something that isn’t called out enough is lyrical content in trap. In the same way hair metal glorified alcohol and drug abuse, the same is happening for mixing drugs and alcohol in trap lyrics. A lot of lyrics from the biggest trap artists are about abusing pills/opiods and such and often times, especially kids, start to take interest in this stuff because their favorite artist sings about it. Being in college when trap blew up really only shined a spotlight on this issue as I watched those around me continue to experiment with hard drugs in place of harmless psychedelics. Weed and mushrooms, which are normally not gateway drugs did give way to cocaine and various pills at parties where drinking was also occurring and more often than not someone would have to get narcan from an EMT or cop that was called to the party. There’s a level of drug abuse that is of course masking the way someone really feels but no one speaks enough to the peer pressure some people feel in these environments, especially when everyone around you is cheering you on to do/try it. Every time a trap concert rolled through our campus the amount of people carted off in the meat wagon was excessive, and we had to call an ambulance for someone who later told us they took xanax and drank because they thought that’s what they had to do to fit in with the trap fans. Of course I’m not saying trap is solely to blame for this behavior, but rather the fans who simultaneously cheer on an artist for singing or rapping about substance abuse who then cry when the artist dies of substance abuse are too dense to realize what’s really going on behind the scenes for the artist and the culture.
Thank you! this has been a video that needed to be done for a long time!! Very Well done!!!
Dude, this is a great video, and honestly courageous. You outlined the issue so well, and made the important question clear, "Where is the line?" when it comes to fan/artist relations. Art is such an emotional thing, it's easy to get stuck there. You did us all a service by taking a rational look at this trend.
Your analysis is spot on as usual. Especially the point on artists beefing and the media egging on these dumb beefs. A shady businessman once said something about media being enemies of the people, and boy on that thought he was right. i think the media makes everyones' lives worse by pulling and playing with our emotions, and celebrities take the worst beating of it all.
A ton of these beefs are fake though.
Thank you for making this video! Always appreciate your perspective.
Dude, love this and all of your videos. Keep up the awesome videos about all the great music thats out there. 🤘✌️
I agree with all of this, Finn! You are awesome for talking about this.
In the black metal world (which is nowhere close to mainstream), there is the unfortunate example of Pelle "Dead" Ohlin of Mayhem. As a young kid, he basically got beat up so bad that he was rushed to the hospital and declared clinically dead for a short time. This ended up in him having a very intense fascination with dying as he got older, to the point where he would self-harm himself on stage and do all other sorts of distressing stuff that was basically a cry for help. Those assholes in Mayhem never gave a shit about his mental state, even after he did himself in via shotgun at 21 years of age. What's more troubling is that the media over the years would always sensationalize him as this "crazy, insane weirdo" when in reality, he was just a young man with a lot of mental health issues that were--and still are--unaddressed by the wider black metal fandom. His whole death was just reduced to a sick, messed up punchline and it honestly makes me mad thinking about it sometimes.
ur the only other person ive seen mention or actually think about dead like that before, its terribly sad how that's how it is. especially how mayhem's entire story is chalked up to be like an infamous story stapled right in front of your face any time black metal is a topic, when they are/were real live people who were severely messed up
@@squtnik Thank you. There is a mini-documentary here on RUclips called Ten Years of Mayhem that really does a great job humanizing Dead. I’ll see if I can find it for you. It’s probably the best thing I have ever seen on Mayhem, ever.
@@wheelsofmercury awesome thanks! i was able to find it
@@squtnik No problem!👍🏻
I respect how long it takes to make these videos so I can't expect this kind of content to come out too often but I gawd I love the PRMBA mini-docs
Thank you!
Good stuff bro and it is really sad how some of these artists get pushed to the edge like that.
thank you for this responsible video. it's making me rethink my relationship to music, as someone who is hella depressed and seek comfort in this kind of music and in the past definitely didn't realize why i liked bands and musicians who are also mentally ill and/or suffering from addiction..... i definitely listen to a LOT of depressing music (metal etc.) and been doing so since i was 13 (im 34 now).
i also listen to a lot of reggae and funk and there's plenty of depressing shit there too. the upside is the music is (often) uplifting and lyrics try to be positive.
i'm trying hard to stay in that mindset of not giving up on life and have a daily playlist of those kinds of songs. mostly Rebelution, Spearhead and Wookiefoot. it's oddly cathartic to hear someone sing "all life is suffering" to an amazing funk beat. also some purely positive songs like "it's a good day" by Royal Crown Revue.
Finn probably remembers this, but there was a 90s song called Misery by Soul Asylum that was critical of the music business and the fan’s gross attachment for consuming depressing/negative music. I was a pre-teen at the time it came out, but a lot of that social commentary went over my head back then.
Do you think certain fans fear the artist getting better because it proves to them they could also get better?
Boom. Right in the feels.
@Travis Shaw. Interesting take.
The Evanescence song Lithium, basically is about how Amy is scared to feel better, or at least it’s what is hinted in the lyrics.
When you’ve felt low or depressed for such a long time, some might fear to not know how to feel anything else.
So as someone who suffers with depression and is a very creative minded person, sometimes I wonder if I start to feel better, will that effect my creativity in some way?.
@@nu-metalfan2654 I relate to this very much, i want to be a professional artist and i try to write songs as much as i can, the most easy topics i can write on are exactly about depression and suicidal thoughts, i don't want to just be known as a broken sad artist but sometimes i feel if i get better that i'll burn out creatively and won't easily find inspiration to write more since a lot of my music revolves around dark topics.
@@Patrick-pc3vq My personal creativity I think comes from my anger and frustration, I’m the type that has a lot to say but don’t know how to say it.
For me I’ve always been a little bit of a perfectionist or idealist, I couldn’t play video games because I would always think of how things could’ve been done better.
Same with music a little, I look at Mike Patton and think, why can’t more artists be like him?. And movies as well, why can’t more directors be more like Tarantino or Scorsese?.
But if you want to not be just a sad lyricist. You could always write about different things.
For me personally if I was a songwriter I would also write about my Anxiety and how it effects me. But I would also mix things up with writing about how this world is very hypocritical and has double standards for a lot of things.
I would write about my personal struggles of weather I want to be a Christian or not, and how I don’t fully know if I believe in God or not, because it’s something I’ve always been 50/50 on.
And even though I suffer with Anxiety and Depression, I still like to have a laugh and would use my sense of humour in my writing as well.
So those are things I would do if I was songwriter, and I hope it might make you think of different things to write about.
As for me I do worry that if I feel better and less angry and I’m no longer frustrated, will that effect my creativity?.
One of my favourite movie directors in David Lynch (Mike Patton is a fan of Lynch as well, which makes a ton of sense) who really is creativity in the the human form. Lynch avoided all forms of therapy because he felt it could effect his creativity in some way.
However me personally I’ve had a lot of therapy in my young life so far and not once have I felt it hampered my creativity.
@@nu-metalfan2654 Yeah i also like writing and performing funny and cheery music, but that's what concerns me, i don't really make as much of that music because i largely use my mood in the moment when writing, which i noticed is mostly gloomy and unhappy. Perhaps not giving in to those feelings and writing something more cheerful or energetic could help, sounds like a good advice and thank you for that. I don't usually like to compare artists, sure when comparing your favourite artists to other artists you get a sense of why you like those artists and you appreciate them more but every artist has their own unique style and vision, and everyone appreciates it in their own way, because not every director is like Tarantino is what makes him so special in the first place.
This one is really tough, props to you for broaching it with both sensitivity and frankness!
Thank you so much for this video. Somebody needed to say all the things you did, i relate to it a lot.
I remember seeing the MTV unplugged with Alice in Chains and just thinking Layne was not in a good place. He looked so small and folded in on himself. That was early 96 I think.
Really great video, I appreciate all the work and research you put into this, you made some great points! I grew up on My Chemical Romance and I'm not gonna lie they got me through some dark times, but also sometimes I wondered if I was wallowing too much in those dark times with that music. However, it does help to know you are not the only one having dark thoughts, but we need to support artists when they are trying to get better and make some other music. It is really damaging to expect them to make dark depressing music for the rest of their lives! I remember when My Chemical Romance came out with the Killjoys album, after the Black Parade, and at the time all my friends, and even me sadly, clowned the album for being lighter in tone, colorful and upbeat. We wanted a sequel to The Black Parade. We didn't want to hear any positivity or happy sounding music from them, which is really sad looking back! They were grown men with wives and children at that point, they can't stay in a sad place singing about death forever. And now I'm so glad that they didn't!
Excelent research. I was hoping that someone make a video about this subject. A big hug from Argentina my colleague!
Great video, a very important topic. I like that you approach it from a different angle than a lot of other people, but the starting point is one of compassion and empathy.
The other night I was watching a live stream of one of the most famous artists here in Argentina, who has a very serious cocaine addiction and a very public one as well. He was being interviewed by a fan who was telling him what people were saying in the chat section and basically the message was "we would rather not see you play shows for a year if that means you're taking care of yourself and your mental health", and I thought that was beautiful :)
I think the statement Mac once said about being on social media summed it up well for a lot of artists. They can wake up and have people say they are great and immediately follow it with everyone who says they suck. I can only imagine the toll that takes on someone so famous with so many problems
Where I love your other videos you did the best job ever in this one. Your approach to the topic was considerate and meaningful. I've had my own history with mental illness and addiction. I will share this in hopes that more people other than your fans will see it and relate
Finn ong, this is your best video yet tbh, it highlights so many good points.
Back in 2017 I was a junior. I had been following Lil Peep for about a year and related a lot to his music with the stuff I was going through. Around Halloween, him and his crew where playing a show in New Orleans and me and my friends were going to see them. Apparently he was a real We were all such huge fans. I ended up getting screwed over by those friends a didn’t go, but they got to go on his tour bus after the show. They said Peep was just being a ass. They said he was super moody and just stayed to himself the whole time and didn’t the want to interact with anyone. My friends hated him after that, said he was an POS and he was not genuine. 2 weeks later, Peep passed. I find it funny how people can listen to that music and say they relate then see it right in front of them and then schoff or them. If you really listened to his music you can hear the pain all along. It’s truly sad and sticks with me to this day.
I’m a huge fan of peep and I’m sorry bro idk what ur friends are saying man gus wasn’t like that maybe he was tired but that’s not him
@@lilmagetofficial listening to his music I can tell he was a beautiful soul. Always have been a huge fan since I heard him .Everyone struggles and has there moments but I could never see him being like that all the time.
I used to be such a big Lil peep fan, could always hear how he was struggling and related it to myself, but nowadays its too hard for me to listen to his music.
He was definitely on opiates, they make you super agitated especially when ur in a nod
I listen to Peep every day. I wish he was still with us. He was struggling so hard on that tour and they just kept feeding him drugs and pushing him out on stage.
I love the lyric from neon Graves by twenty one pilots where he is talking about celebrity suicide and then at the end he says “ find your grandparents or someone at age pay some respects to the path that they paved to life they were dedicated now THAT should be celebrated.”
I was just thinking about that same song and same lyrics. Shit was so damn powerful it made me cry.
Bless up for this Finn! Launching a new project that really keeps this to heart.
Been watching your vids for a month or so now, but today you well and truly earnt my respect. This video is mind blowing, and I don't know why I've never thought about this before. Thank you.
I'm a huge Chris Cornell fan, his music has always meant a lot to me and he inspired me to sing. I woke up on my 23rd birthday to the news that he committed suicide. It shattered my heart, more so because I finally got to see him live a year prior. It's clear he struggled with depression for years, but he seemed so stable and happy in his last few years. It goes to show that depression isn't a temporary thing. I can only imagine what constantly being in the spotlight does to affect that for someone.
This is why no matter what I will always love Asking Alexandria. Because their music is very self reflective and open hearted. Danny damn near died a few times but when he stepped away, got clean, and came back and wasn’t the angry and hateful drug addicted his music reflected that and “fans” hated that. They hate people who are happy because that’s something they can’t be themselves.
I don't love their new stuff, but I'm glad they got better lyrically.
Danny is WAY better as a musician sober, but let's not pretend their sound didn't change. It mature for sure, but many people fell off from that change rather trhan Danny getting sober. I don't think anyone can defend the drunken mess he was. He was garbage live when drinking compared to sober.
This was a good video. A topic worth discussing. And thanks for being open about your own experiences. Had no idea. The commercial music machine seems like a bad deal, and may not be worth it. The compromise, the pressure to make something that sells, not to mention other pressures from being in a world that's now dictated by social media. The psychology of projection is so tricky (mainly because a lot of what's happening goes on in the waters below the conscious, and I think this is really at play in a lot of artist/ audience interactions. I was on a music forum once, and this topic came up (the one of your vid), and one person strongly stated to avoid buying into the myth of the "tortured artist" at all cost. It's funny 'cause I have a friend making music that could be call "new age", but when they got wind of people calling it "beautiful", and thinking it was spiritual (someone at a show actually put made a prayer gesture and bowed to them. Non-ironically.), they got kind of bummed. They were all: don't put that on me. And almost just stopped making music.
I think you have to be a particular kind of person to deal with celebrity and fame. Its always nice to hear famous people say that the money, fame, etc is all so hollow.
Finding Fugazi's music was such a big deal for me personally. I had just heard it on a public/college radio station, and didn't really know anything about them at the time (While I don't agree with the sentiment, I thought the comment from the guy in the Gorilla Biscuits was pretty funny). I was just taping the shows on the radio then, and the announcer said the name of the band. Started looking for their stuff at music stores. It opened up a lot for me. Straight edge, and DIY. Their history is really unique. Hearing about the offers they turned down...it's pretty wild to think about. They didn't compromise, and kept getting more and more interesting with their music. Just expanding on the sound. Definitely the other side of the coin in all this, showing another way.
Solid video, I feel like you did a good job at saying what a lot of us are thinking. It’s sad, but true. We support it, but not only does it hurt the artist, the older I get, I more I think about how much it negatively influences the kids that want to be just like these artists.
Thanks for addressing this topic, Finn; it's important to raise awareness of this.
There's no easy answer, but the only thing we can control for certain is ourselves; what we choose to support and how we choose to respond to things. We tend to be self-centered with our decisions; we only care about what we like, what we want, and how we benefit from something; this goes for the artist, the fans, and the media.
The answer is to do the opposite: to be SELF-LESS. Take others into consideration, respond to hate and negativity with love and positivity, support what benefits others and not what hurts them. This isn't easy, but this is what it's gonna take to see a difference.
This was a great video and super relatable on so many levels. I had the same feeling when I listened to Juice Wrld. It was sad to see and listen to Legends and have this eery feeling knowing he was probably next.
One of your best videos/synopsis. Much love.
Glad you brought this topic up. There’s soo many sides to all this that contribute to an artist’s downfall that sometimes unfortunately we see them on this list tragically.
I've known so many depressed people who think success in their art will lead to happiness and at the same time believe they can't be successful unless they are depressed. They resist attempts to improve their mental health because they believe they will lose all their creativity and most end up suffering without success. Then there are people like Cobain, Cornell, Bennington who are successful but it didn't make them happy and they killed themselves anyways. Of all the Nirvana lyrics that got cited after his suicide, the one that never got mentioned was Francis Farmer Will Have Her Revenge, specifically "I miss the comfort in being sad". The longer people make depression their identity the harder it gets to break out of it.
It's not always fans who have a troubled past who identify with these artists and push them over the edge. I think many times fans have an easy, relatively comfortable middle-class life, and they want troubled artists to go into the deep end of the dark side of their minds and tell them what is it like over there, so they can venture vicariously into those territories, because they are not readily available to them or they don't wanna risk their lives exploring that world themselves. It's like "hey, you go do all the crazy party and drugs lifestyle 24/7 and tell me all about it, so I can listen to it during my commute to my cubicle job, and I can at least know what I'm missing out".
Love the channel man!! Keep rocking on bro!!! 🤟
Excellent video! The best of them all!
It makes me so happy that Ruby and $crim got sober. For sure I thought we were gonna lose them the same way we lost peep and everyone. It was amazing to get to see them live and hear $crim's speech about getting sober at Grey Day.
Great video. There is only one thing I would like to add: people really underestimate how exhausting (physically and mentally) life on the road is. These artists are living in a tourbus for three quarters of the year, just imagine what that does to your mental health.
damn.
It’s crazy how well you put things into words.. you are a rlly smart guy bro
I really admire the way you clear things up in your videos.
👍
To me I always believed in the fact there's more 'yes' men who are there to keep the focus of the artist/performer on 1000mph of self destruction vrs people who can be voices of reason that are better at helping them through difficult decisions.
Great video. the fact that successful rockstar/pop-star/musicians live DECADES shorter than the population needs to be addressed. Mental health is a huge part and we ignore their struggles with the idea that it may be their source of inspiration. Having said that I really hope Kanye gets help.
Fantastic video, Finn
Well done. This kind of content is why your channel is the best
You succinctly put into words what I've wanted to make a video about for years but felt I felt so overwhelmed about the topic. With all it's intricacies of personal responsibility vs. the concept of tone deaf and/or enabling fans and managers. Good job on this. You tackled a tough subject.
I think a lot of people see the problem as too distant. In the same way you would never get to live out the fantasy of magically meeting them somewhere and becoming friends you won't be the person that rescues them from addiction. Not supporting the music or not purchasing an album isn't going to be the thing that stops them from self destruction so you just continue to listen and hope for the best.
Seeing the permanent damage done to some of those who have lived through such horrible addictions can be just as heartbreaking. One of my favorite artists, Shane MacGowan, is a perfect example of this. I wish him and all those who have going or have been through addiction health and happiness even if the art suffers.💜
Also, thank you for this video. It needed to be said and everyone needs to hear it.
Please keep doing what you’re doing. I love all of your videos. This one hit me hard. I love how real and honest you are. You’re nailing it my friend.
Great work as always Finn. Huge fan of the work.
Hey man!
Great video
Really sad that we’ve lost so many artists in this way
I loved Chester's talents , everyone you spoke about was great & it's so sad
There are accounts of people who said AiC's lyrics helped them get sober in the (excellent) book by David DeSola, at least it didn't go over _everyone's_ head. Sadly, there are also stories of people who started because of them, which horrified Layne...
One of your best vids, srsly man, very cool the way you choose the point of view to discuss this topic. Love from Italy.
thanks for making this we needed for some people to hear this
RIP to everyone who's sadly in this "club", especially Robert Johnson,Jim Morrison, & Kurt Cobain who are among my top musical influences.
Robert Johnson drank poison whiskey given to him by a club owner because he was sleeping with the club owner's wife
@@SuperCrazyPsycho731 Yep
_“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs._
_There's also a negative side.”_
great work as usual, it's nice to see someone bringing this topic up but also in a way that isnt just blaming the artist and just basically trashing the artists like others do.