Ralfi's Alley - Review of Thrustmaster F/A-18C Grip HOTAS
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2019
- My review of the Thrustmaster F/A-18C HORNET HOTAS ADD-ON GRIP.
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Игры
Based on several comments, let me address some of the things here:
1. The price is rather steep, and it's completely understandable that some of you may be apprehensive towards that. It's not an easy purchase and I'm certainly not saying that you should all go and drop your life savings for this. I think we were all hoping for this to be sub 200$ and it sucks that it isn't. Perhaps I should have talked about it some more in the video, but honestly at the time I just kinda figured that after the whole Thrustmaster Warthog prices, or just the Warthog Stick itself which sat at around 300$ for the longest, would have been a clear indication of where this was heading. Although there were complaints about the price back then, it was nowhere near the "shock" that I'm reading about this one.
2. As far as the ergonomics go, I completely and totally understand that this stick was designed for use in the center, low, with your thigh as a resting place (between your legs position). I should have clarified that point a bit more, but what I found ergonomically is still wonky, even in that configuration as I did try the desktop bracket setup (Which felt nice) but there were still problems in that configuration with the pinky and autopilot switches. The weapon selector switch was also still not as easily accessible as let's say the Warthogs CMS button which a lot of us are so used to.
Thus I believe that my criticisms have merit based on the fact that most of the users who will get this stick, will use it on their desktop rather than the "between your legs" position that it was originally designed for IRL.
For the second point: The real life version is designed to be used with fire resistant gloves i.e. thicc fingers, so the replica would be too i guess
Lol, I am NOT putting gloves on at home. Way too hot.
Ok this comment helps a lot, thanks for clarifying. :thumbsup:
Thank you I already thought I have to buy this, thank you sir.
Hey Ralfi. Weird question, I know... How long is your thumb, relatively? I don't really have the longest thumbs and I have trouble reaching the left-top button on the T.16000M without raising my hand on the stick significantly, but was for the longest time looking forward to getting either the Hog or (if it actually came out, which it seems to be now) the Hornet itself. So while having the real stick would be just beautiful, I'm worried about my short fingers fucking me over (Example: Most people can work the slide release and the trigger on most pistols without adjusting their grip. I have to.)
A few notes after using the stick for almost a year: 1- The undesignate button and AP release switch do indeed take a bit to get used to after coming from another stick, but after a bit of time, you don't even think about it, 2- The stick has the same number of inputs as the Cougar stick (there seems to be some misconceptions about this), 3- The three way wheel button is great for VR control (centering and left and right mouse button emulation), 4- Will check on the mapping, it was set up months ago and something may have changed, 5- The stick is quite similar to the real AV-8B stick too.
For #2, if it has the same number of inputs as the Cougar, why does it say that Push Button 19 will not be functional in the manual at 1:22 in the video? Can you clarify? Thanks.
@@DrSQUIRRELBOY12. PB 19 is functional on my stick.
@@MattWagner Great! Thank you for the clarification about the stick with the TM Cougar base.
@@DrSQUIRRELBOY12 Keep in mind that wags is using warthog base iirc, I think the manual is trying to say that if you put this stick on a cougar base the weapon select switch depress(pb19) wont work.
19 is non functional on COUGAR bases because it was never wired for it. Thrustmaster bases are fine.
This grip in the real plane is being far lower than you placed it - over the desk. In Hornet/Harrier/F-15 it is placed just above pilot's knees - not shoulders :) And it is tilted 20-30 degrees to the left. That's why you felt some ergonomic issues and needed some rest for the hand.
Thanks for the review!
Yep, which is why I also used it with a desk mount and it felt much better as I stated. However, most people that will buy this product, will do so with use on their desktop, so my points remain valid complaints that they will experience, and was worthy to at least mention.
@@ralfidude Really? A grip at 230 dollars isn't something I see cheap hotas users buying. If you are willing to spend that much on a grip alone you probably have a real setup.
@@jonredcorn862 Incorrect. MOST users of the Thrustmaster WARTHOG HOTAS were and still are using it on their desktops and they, just like me, dropped 500$ on that kit. You didn't exactly see massive spikes of people building home sim pits all of a sudden when that came out, right? This is no different. Remember that the Warthog Grip itself was selling for like 300$ for the longest time. You are blowing this a little bit out of proportion.
@@ralfidude I'm an avid flight sim player having started playing when Falcon 4.0 was still Falcon XT.
And true while I've purchase my share of expensive joysticks, I've never gone and built myself a sim pit.
At most I built a mount for the joystick that put the stick at a better position.
@@ralfidude Thing is that last year people buy (from Thrustmaster) Warghog grip only - for use in VPC/VKB bases, and pay $110.
Example: forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3195400&postcount=1
So many are expecting F-18 for ~$ 150.
Hahaha lost it when you said you wanna have a chat with a MD engineer. I work on the Hornet and let me tell you nothing on that thing is engineered with anyone beside the engineer in mind ! I want to come with you if you can find one, I have so many questions.
What Squadron, I also worked on the Hornet, A+ Through F lot 35,
@ChristianLudwig never said i didn't work on the Tomcat,
Wow I was just watching all your other reviews and now I have the pleasure of seeing another :)
Bro I can't tell you how much this saved me!!! thx man, you came in clutch, FR
In F/A-18C the stick is in the middle, so pilots arm/wrist is resting on the top of the thigh normally, that's why there's no need for a palm rest on the handle. The hog handle is lifted from F-16 in which the stick is located to the right, that's why there is palm rest. Feel free to correct me if im wrong
i was about to say that, but they usually rest their elbow on their thigh and use that as the point of pivot
Yep, and that's why i tried it with a desktop mount and it felt better, but the paddle switch and pinky button were still problematic. But because most users will use this stick on their desktops, these were still points I felt I had to address since people will have problems with it.
At that price I rather get myself the WarBRD base and stay with the warthog grip for my hotas upgrade. I feel I get more bang for the buck that way.
Thank you for your review.
totally understandable
I got a WarBRD base for my Warthog grip. Difference is night and day. Formation flying, coordinated turning, aiming, all much improved now. And I,be got the stick between the legs, which does help with the ergonomics a lot.
for the price of this grip,may as well get A virpil
It's cool to have a proper stick of this design. Not since the old Suncom stick have we had one. I did get to fondle it at FS Expo, and it is a bit awkward if you are used to the Hog stick. We'll see
Thanks for a great review. I have the Warthog and looking to change the grip soon.
Glad I'm 6'5" with big hands. This grip should be perfect for me. I'm getting it with the Warthog HOTAS over the Virpil, which I think comes up short with the way that the springs inside are done. Plus, this is less expensive with better quality from all of the reviews over seen. Also, I'm VR all the way so I don't need all of the extra switches and buttons. Good review!
For half of the price you could get a VKB Modern Combat Grip.
The F18 grip isnt worth 200 bucks in my opinion.
Totally understandable
I want the F22!!!
Do you have a file of the wrist rest to be printed in 3D, please?
Excellent vid (just got one myself). Any chance of some more info on your 3D add-ons? (I don't like the missing rest or short paddle either.)
@ralfidude what screens did you use with the MFD's?
hey, do you mind uploading the gcode for the 3d printed part?
How do you like the GTX 1080ti? Noticeable difference in performance from the GTX1080?
Great grip im sure but i think they should have made a full hotas of it
with a real gimble.
Love the fire works display at the end there Ralfi.....Lite -em up son!!
ralfi's dad makes a rare appearance
To clarify, do I have to have (buy) the Warthog base before I'll be able to use the F-18 stick? Since I don't already have the Warthog base, that's going to make the F-18 stick REALLY expensive, isn't it?
I wonder if the paddle and pinkie switch are easier to hit if you wear gloves? That may explain why it was made so large.
Excellent review, thanks for that. Covers all bases in detail - just like it should be done. That being said, I will stick with my VKB gunfighter MK2 with KG-12 grip, as I only fly WW2 sims (Il2 series). Like with Virpil or now Thrustmaster, I can swap grips using the VKB MCB, which I would consider way more economical, than this Thrustmaster grip while yielding even more buttons/switches.
As for the lack of ergonimics, I would assume the original F-18 grip was designed to be used with gloves. But that is just an assumption. I'd also be happy to learn the real reason for this design.
I just got it, it is a refreshing change from the warthog. Everything about ergonomics is true, the pickle putton is way of to the top left of the device and hard to reach and you will move your hand slightly up and down the device, but you get used to it and forget about it. Allot of the buttons make a nice click sound which is a big +1 and it feels very natural in the hornet.
Thanks for this great video! Please add a link on how to make those 3d printed snap-on hand-rest or make a video on how to do them!!
As someone with a couple grand invested in my pit, $230? That's gonna be a no from me dawg.
completely understandable
Find yourself a pilot gloves. A lot of what you said about ergonomics issues will immediately make sense.
I was wondering that, too. If you're flying with gloves on, ergonomics change in strange ways. Even thin gloves, for example, will change how, it even if, you can use a keyboard.
Actually, get it OFF the desk and center mount the stick. Then “ergonomically” it will make much more sense.
@@IkeThe9th 8:32. It's no the main issues of this video.
Orin Polansky ...but gloves are? I actually agree with you about the gloves, but his stick reviews are all similar - desk mounted critiques to sticks designed around being center mounted.
@@IkeThe9th He mentioned that he can't reach buttons. This is a little bit more important than simple displacement of hand on a stick because (obviously) you can't reach all of the controls. When you wearing pilot gloves (they're thick) your hands are bigger, a lot. In gloves you are not just able to reach the buttons, you will reach them even if you don't want this to happen in case of stick been designed for bare hands.
Sorry if my english was bad.)
Thank you for the thorough review.
I have an unrelated question - which screen are you using on your right MFD?
none, it's just a plastic insert with a static image that comes with those Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs.
So when do you start selling your 3d printed add ons?
Hi, thx for review, just got mine - is there ANY chance you would share that .stl for 3d printed rest? It would save us a lot of time ;) Cheers.
Well the reason that it's difficult to move the weapon selector switch to the left is that it never was meant to move to the left... it orginally only went up, down, right and push in.
03:53 can this wheel be mapped to VR Zoom and the push button be mapped to VR Center in DCS? Excellent review, BTW.
Thanks for the excellent review!
Do you have any news about Hornet throttle from TM?
I have no doubt that this grip is fantastic, I certainly _want_ it. It's gorgeous, it's build quality looks superb, and I'm sure the electronics are great. The immersion level with the Hornet (and AV-8B and future F-15E) would be that much better. That being said, the assumed target market for this is people who already own the (now aging) Warthog base (or Cougar base), and unintentionally from TM's business point of view, for people who own a Virpil T50 (me) or WarBRD base. Presumably all of those people already have a perfectly serviceable high-end grip in the form of the TM Warthog or Virpil T50 grip. Purchasing the Hornet grip would be almost entirely for aesthetic and/or immersion purposes as an alternative to swap in for certain aircraft or maybe to replace a beat up Warthog, not necessarily as an investment in a totally new system with new base. With that in mind I'm not sure it commands the price that TM is asking for. I will be very interested to see how it sells.
The thumb 4 way is weapon select in the hornet, countermeasures are on the throttle
Loved the video and channel. I'm thinking about getting a desk top mount for the Thrustmaster. What was the setup you showed in the video?
Those are VIRPILs desktop mounts
does the stick itself point at 360 degrees or is it slightly to the left as the original at 350esh degrees?
straight ahead.
I think the design choices are to do with it being a floor mounted stick that will move a lot different to a desk mounted one. That is my big gripe with the Thrustmaster Warthog... same goes with the throttle... damned thing actually blocks access to the buttons under the throttle handle. I’ve actually bought a second hand set to have a go at modifying both for my pit.
Hi
where can I buy thrustmaster warthog base alone? everywhere that I searched it's only being sold with the A-10 grip together, I just want the base and F-18 grip
Thanks
I believe you cannot buy the Thrustmaster base alone retail. You may find 2nd hand ones where people have replaced it with the compatible Virpil base. Most prefer Virpil base virpil-controls.eu/vpc-warbrd-base.html
What does the first stage of the trigger do on the real Hornet?
Jesus dude your Warthog stick has seen better days lol. Looks like a worthy addition if you're a die hard Hornet fan. Curious to see whether they'll release a "new" HOTAS Cougar to celebrate the launch of the ED F-16C module.
Where can I buy the Warthog base?
Quick question about the weapon select switch - the manual says its a 5 way position switch, yet all I can get out of mine is fwd, back, depress and right. Does anyone else have a left action?
Yep, left should work
@@ralfidude ive heard other people saying it doesnt...I just want to confirm I have a problem with mine so I can get it fixed.
There is no palm rest because the stick is situated low where your hand doesn’t tend to slide down and fall off as on a desk anyways. This is unlike the a10 stick which is also in the f16 where it is mounted high like a desk along the right side of the cockpit. The paddle is short and far away because it’s only used in select cases and you wouldn’t want to accidentally hit it.
File for the wrist rest?
Hi Rafi! Is your warthog base modded? If yes, what mod did you use?
No real mods. I just sanded the gimbal down to make it smooth and then re-greased it. That white cover you see is just a thin layer of cardboard as a dust cover for the gimbal.
What did you blur out on the right ddi on you desk ?
seekrets
Where was it manufactured?
Great review, thanks!
Great review, I'll stick with the Warthog now!
All of the MDD:s cockpit designs from the 80's are eerily similar! (F/A-18, F-15E, AV-8B)
Have you tried it placed even lower, but with an extension? That's what I would bet my money on, since it would make you use your arm more than your wrist, which could be more relaxed.
I don't actually have any extensions, but the extensions would increase the overall arc swing of the stick, making it a bit more obnoxious to use between your legs. The desk mount setup I did was probably the best option that I've been able to come up with.
NIce review, thx Ralfi!
I was hoping if TH could produce a middle ground between the T.16000m and Warthog.
Bought my t16000 last christmass the only problem i have Is that the twist acts on its own and i had to switch my rudder to the paddle switchs
@@Ropetor what twist?
@@Ropetor I bought one last October too - the one with the TFRP rudder Pedals. Everything worked great. I just wasn't happy with the button layout on the stick and the sliding format of the throttle. and I don't want to spend the amount for the Warthog. I'm being a bit spoiled here.
@@consume_vegetables I only think one more hat on the stick would be perfect and being my first throtle i didnt even feel something wrong whit the sliding type
Simple question... As VKB base is normally usable with Warthog stick, is F/A18 one is working with it too? It would have been great if we could see how switching VKB to TM stick look like as Virpil and TM base are only plug and play :)
Out of that, great review, stick looks nice and awesome and i'm really looking forward to upgrade my VKB gladiator Pro MkII Kg12 for this beauty if i found how u upgrade VKB to TM :-/
I don't have any VKB stuff, so I can't say, but if it uses the standard 5 pin connector then it should work to be honest.
Would you recommend this over the virpil constellation alpha?
I don't have it, but I hear very good things about it
Can you do a detailed vid of your setup?
I don't normally watch reviews, much less joy stick reviews, but I thought they way you did it was pretty good. But that price though. I'll just stick to good ol relible for now.
To be fair with it being a faithful recreation of an original stick for an aircraft that was never meant to be used on a side mounted platform or as a desktop flight controller it's a completely different setup and needs some adjustments to the use by the user.
@2:28 why is the right MFD blurred out? Isn't that just the standard template insert that comes with the MFD?
High reflections
@@ralfidude Get a couple of Lilliput UM-80's and you can have a display in there :). That is what I did (need two additional USB ports) and used double back tape to connect the Cougars to the displays. The displays have their own USB ports that allow you to connect the Cougar's to so it becomes a nice modular setup.
@@GreyMaulkin Yeah at a 100P+ per monitor I'm not really that into it. I just wanted the option to physically touch the buttons. I don't really need the screens to function. But thank you.
im guessing the warthog grip is better suited for desks due to the f16 using a side-grip
Probably
Regarding the difficulty on the left press, that might be why the left press on the Weapon Selection switch isn't used on the real thing.
It's not? How are AIM-7 selected in the real thing?
It's used to select AIM-7s. Granted noone really carries them anymore
@@slay22497 iirc, it's. Forward for Aim-7, Right for Aim-120, Aft/back for guns, and depress/down for Aim-9, so ya, left was never used for anything, and I believe on the real thing it doesn't even push to the left, but Thrustmaster just gave us an extra left push option.
@@moshoyoko2480 Correct.
Selling any of those wrist rests?
you should check out the vkb products so you can have the entire spectrum of flight sticks...fantastic reviews
Why did you blur out your right MFD at 2:29? I have the warthog I usually play BMS and secondly DCS FC3.
seekrets
@@ralfidude Air Plane secrets?
Hey ralfidude. very good review. Just a couple comments and general questions on this Stick.
1. Do you swap out your sticks now or do you have the Warthog stick in the drawer permanently? The Warthog stick is so well made and fantastic its really hard for me to spend 300 CDN on this unless I just want to keep up on the new cool stuff or am a F/18 plane only fanatic.
2. When you plugged it in and fired up DCS you mentioned that the buttons were ALMOST all configured. This is a question for all people using the TH Warthog stick and MFD's. Do you use the Thrust Master T.A.R.G.E.T configuration software and run it in the background? My newer Gaming computer (started to put together last year) is VERY fast but I still don't like running other programs in background when flying DCS, Arma 3 etc or any other previous sticks I've had such as x-52 pro. You already have Track IR etc running back there. In this case you said you may have needed updated Drivers. Different from TARGET software?
3. Just things I noticed. The little wheel add on. It's in the diagram. Does it autoconfigure to anything?
They could have crisscrossed the grooves on lower left button.
Paddle switch. to short for no real reason.
4. Your set up. I see you have two screens. Do you use the second? I have 3 (middle is 34 and others 21) but they are not the same size so I don't know if its worth it to try. Would love to have the map on one screen all the time and a target screen on the other. read about it but lots of dicking around.
Cool MFD mounting you have. I used the J-Pein desk mounts and they came with adapter for them. That worked out great. good mounts.
What is the control board you have above your keyboard? haven't seen that before. Thrust Master?
Sorry did not mean to ramble. Just stuff I noticed and wondered about.
I laughed when I saw your Warthog. Looks like you've pressed the fire button a few times lol.
My set up is accidently a lot like yours. I just updated my Corsair mouse to wireless. (not in video)
Have a look.
ruclips.net/video/vI33A1H5N6k/видео.html
I think because of the price I don't need this but may buy when price comes down.
Thanks again for the good honest review and previous valuable (very informational ) videos.
1. I still swap between the different sticks depending on what I fly.
2. I don't use TARGET, never have and never will. I map everything through the in game controls page, works flawlessly. Bind it to your hearts desire.
3. It was added as a thing to be used in VR more than anything since VR is becoming more and more of a thing.
4. Thrustmaster Cougar MFDs, but it's a button box, no actual working screen in the middle. The little UFC on the top of my keyboard is a BUDDYFOX UFC. Review coming for it today actually! Stay tuned.
@@ralfidude I'll stay tuned. thanks for reply. Rgr that on not running anything in the background if you can. Sometimes you can't avoid. I was pleasantly surprised when MFD's worked out of box with no need for software. I installed them and then I realized that right was left and vise versa. I changed that in display settings and done. Very handy to have surprisingly cheap for what you get. 89 CDN Awesome.
@2:28 Dude your setup is nuts.
danke!
What are you using when you ROLL? Would have been nice to see that in your video. I have a hard time controlling my roll's. They feel like they are going too fast and I have nowhere near the precision I see you have in your video here.
Courage
@@ralfidude ??
@@Omikron1112 I don't understand your question. I just roll with the stick. That's it. No rudder input either. It's pretty straight forward.
@@ralfidude Ok ok......... Do you use the twist on the stick or fo you use one of the hats?
@@Omikron1112 I have Thrustmaster TPRs, but I also used Saitek Pro rudders.
Jokes on you, that guy at the end was a friendly, damn iff! :P
Wonder to know if it will be compatibile with the Virpil Mongoos T-50 base.
no it wont
@@danieldorn2927 Why not. It is compativile with WarBRD. so why it woul'd not be compatibile with the Moongoos base?
@@jaromirandel543 I was wrong, I thought because they are different manufacturers their products wouldnt be compatible, but I looked around a bit and you can put a Warthog Stick on a T-50 base, so the Hornet Stick will work too. Sorry about that.
I mean I haven't tested it out with that base, but if it uses a 5 pin connector then it should be good to go just like the WarBRD.
What’s your opinion on the SU 34 FULLBACK
I know nothing on the subject I'm afraid.
+ralfidude are we getting a full fidelity F-15E?!
I have a question. Never knew this before on the first presentation of the stick. I have a Thrustmaster stick, non a warthog one obviously, and I thought tu buy F 18 grip. But as I understand I need to buy a base separately? I never found it in noway on Thrustmaster on line shop so what…?
Yes, that, or you can also buy the VirPil WarBRD base, which I recommend.
ralfidude
works in The same way? is it compatibile? And May I Buy it on-line?
@@giuseppeloggia6412 8:22
Designed for Gloves???
Very useful review.
Ralfi, do you have any settings you could share for the Mongoose grip and throttle from Virpil? I've looked all over and I don't see anything that folks have shared. :|
On the topic of THIS stick, if you look at cockpit photos or vids of the blue angels, you will see how they rest their hand on the stick and lean it against their thigh. That's the EXACT reason they can't use anti-G suits, because the bladders inflating/deflating will deflect the stick, causing unwanted movements at close proximity to their wingman and at speeds not compatible with continued life.
If you're talking about key bindings then not really. Everything i did is custom and i have like 20 profiles for all sorts of combinations. But i basically just went through and did it all manually. I recommend that you do so as well. It's easier to remember the buttons that way.
@@ralfidude I just like to see what other folks do for example, on the Tomcat for their wing sweep and such, or how they do sensor hat since the non-Hornet stick is different, that sort of thing. Ideas inspire me.. It's not so much to rip off what you have done, but just so see where you ended up with the same problem. If that makes sense :)
I enjoy your vids dude, as always..
@@karlchilders5420 no i get that, but I've not really done anything crazy.
where did u buy the vertical mount cool !!
Check out Virpil's Desk Mounts
sticking to my f16 grip since ill be getting dcs f16c.
Which F-16 grip do you have? The Thrustmaster Warthog? or is it a different one?
@@TahoeTime4457 cougar hotas
In fact it's the British who designed this stick(
they used it for Harrier, Tornado and MD took it to F/A-18 and F-15s
Is the Warthog also in all metal like this one?
Yup
I thought this thing was supposed to be out in the 2020s? But it's already out on pre order lol.
05:15 what the?? how did you do this to your grip?
Hands made of acid
I hope they grease the base properly. I bought new Warthog and at lower speed of inclination it "sttutered" a LOT.
It doesn’t come with a base. It’s an add on stick for the warthog or cougar base
How can you fly a multirole without a DMS selector?
It depends. People get by with a T16000 FCS.
I'm surprised you didn't comment more on the price. I mean considering you need a base for this as well... In Belgium it's 200 EUR for this while a warthog + base is 260EUR... If you compare that to virpil grips/bases...
Everybody has their own pricing points, I'm not personally happy with 220 myself but to each their own. People still bought the Warthog HOTAS for 500$ when they first shipped, myself included, so it depends on how much you value precision and replicas.
@@ralfidude Yeah I guess a large part can be justified with the replica aspect of the real stick.
Sooooo why was your MFD blurred at the start?
Seekrets
@@ralfidude That's an interesting way to spell that word.
Armory Shop Boss when you get back onboard: 'you used HOW MANY???'
i bet the paddle switch has a great personality
Ok this is annoying how am i supposed to buy the base alone? Cause its not being sold separately. Should i just buy the joystick without the base?
Well, you DO have the option of going with Virpils WarBRD, I did kinda hint at that when I used that combination. They sell the base alone, and it's mechanical which is by far better than your standard Thrustmaster gimbal base design. I reviewed that as well and am very happy with mine.
ralfidude ok thanks and sorry for my lack of attention on the video but your reply really helped me out
@@CaptianJoseph no problemo, cheers!
Can you use this with the warthog throttle?
Of course, in fact can use even together with VirPil throttle and use TARGET software.
Saw those MFD's. Perhaps it is time for another "Ralphi's Setup" video.
sooon
Anyone notice how at 2:28 the Thrustmaster mdf is background is hidden? :O
Seekrets
So how is this all really possible? Like are that many parts of the F18 not top secret? Like how to start and idk fire the weapons? I would think a procedure for that would be top secret actually? And I think TS stuff had at least a 75 year delay if it was not like updated etc? Is there a lot of stuff that is not TS on it? And anything that is? I think sure, we fake the IFF as I know that is top secret and I would assume top speeds or highest maneuvering capabilities would be somewhat classified?
9:38 Ace Combat mode "Activated" 😅
Can you pleaseeee link the base and you had
Just search for the Virpil WarBRD base
whatever happened to the guy that wanted to make f18 grips and all sorts of things for a good price?
Awsome to play some arma with you earlier ralfi, fun times :)
Such a terrible team though...
@@ralfidude lionheart really stopped us from inserting
ohhhh shit. I've literally been Googling this for a few days...
As much as everyone is saying its expensive, totally agree, but lets be happy at least now we have one in the market! Lets scalp some deals : )