@@kevincowan4887 Well, it was an idea anyway, but I don’t have a memory of it making a huge difference. Also, I don’t see lots of conicals lying about in the shooting shed with tape on their base. . 🤔. O.R.
@@kevincowan4887 No, I haven’t. I’m not experienced at all in this arena. Most rifles using them are probably 45 or 50 calibers. I would then think the sabot diameter is .450 or ..500, or slightly larger. The 44 caliber cap and ball pistols have chambers around .446. A .454 pure lead round ball shaves (or changes shape) to fit and seal the chamber. I have little idea how the plastic .450+ (if that’s their size) will like that plan, and there could be other complications. O.R.
Hello, thanks for all your great videos. I have just purchased a couple of Erasgone Conical moulds. The .44 Johnson & Dow & the .36 Colt Navy. I'm in the UK so I'm really happy to get them. I'm going to review my revolvers like you did in your other videos to see what guns can take the conicals. It looks like I'll have to remove the cylinders and use a loading press in some cases. I'm hoping to load up some cartridges using these heeled bullets and try them out, I'll also try some bare conicals to see how they go. I'm very impressed by the accuracy of your shooting and your videos are certainly inspiring for me to shoot better !! Thanks again Cheers Chris
@@chrisbrown4002 Thanks Chris. The Earsgone are interesting for sure. I had some hopes they would be the “silver bullet” in accuracy compared to other conicals that I have tried, especially in the 36 caliber guns. So far (with a few exceptions) the round ball does somewhat better. I suspect that because the modern replicas are mostly not progressive twist, they may not be getting the necessary rotation to stabilize. We can be thankful to Mark for doing the work to make these molds available. Thanks again, I enjoy making the videos and am impressed how well these replica guns do. O.R.
Good plan. So far my results have been that if someone was a good shot, and aiming at me at 100 yds, I’d feel pretty safe for a couple shots. If they had a trigger jerk to the right and the bullet took an unannounced turn left, oh well, everybody has to go sometime. Thanks Jake, I know I’m loosing muscle mass, but that loading was ridiculous. I’ll bet a brass frame 51 would never be the same. Great work with the powders. O.R.
I see what you mean about the mis location using the J&D projectiles, there is a great risk of the spigot locating to one side of the chamber, that will give a very asymmetric weight distribution, but the star here was that 3rd group of round balls! That is an outstanding group! Are the J&D cast from pure lead? I have tried hollow base bullets, but they are not good, I think the soft lead is flared out on leaving the muzzle and causes stability problems. Stay safe! Chris B.
Yes, pure lead, and otherwise I would have used my hydraulic press. While I was trying to load them I was thinking about how easy it would be to loosen the arbor on a brass frame gun by trying to load an oversized or hardened bullet. Especially in the 51 style guns there would be a good amount of side pressure on the arbor. I’m betting that could be one reason the brass frame gained a bad rep. Another of course would be firing heavy bullets with heavy loads. Anyway, all ended well, and appeared from that third string that the Remington survived. One comment suggested sizing the J&D first which would have helped. Another suggested the Kerr bullet, which I may order. Just don’t plan at present to do much shooting with the conicals, but the Kerr sounds tempting, but the cost of playing will be about $ 90,,,,but then its all in the name of science. Oh, I just shot two strings of the paper rings in the Walker. Let’s just say it wasn’t one hole, and it took 20+ minutes to tape up 12 rounds. I had planned to chuck the two cavity mold in the 4-jaw and remove the band that causes the recess (one cavity only), but the handles wouldn’t clear the lathe bed. Need to talk up the idea of a Father’s Day 10 inch lathe. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 The "stretching" of brass frames is no doubt caused by people attempting to load oversize ball in these pistols, I think the 1851 style rammer is less efficient than the creeping type, but overloads are also a bad thing in brass framed pistols, when you think we are probably putting more shots through these guns than ever people did back in the day you can see why they get worn out, the idea of skimming the spigot out more in the mould is really good, I just wish I lived closer, 30 minutes in a 4 jaw chuck would see that done, I can swing 14" on my gap bed lathe, stay safe! Chris B.
@@duigiud Not to difficult to do. I started with the mini grease gun from harbor freight. Amazon lubrimatic 30-800 looks about the same. On the harbor freight I removed the grease from the cartridge that came with it. The empty one got inserted and lube added. I have a selection of zerk fittings and used a 45 degree 1/4-28, take apart and remove spring and ball. I found some 3/16 tube that fit over the threads so when the grease fitting goes into the gun the tube slides into the chambers. Works really good when working. A bit messy on refilling. Also sometimes airlocks. Even Elon Musk has problems with first attempts. Maybe this helps, probably could do a video if there was interest. As with most lube, viscosity is key. Too stiff won’t work. O.R.
Absolutely the diameter of these cylinders are smaller than most think. Which in my experience the bore is slightly smaller. I mentioned before I did a video comparing Remington navy models bore diameters uberti. 371, peitta .3665. Yet individuals will insist the bore diameters. 375. Which proves if you hear it enough you stop critically thinking. Recently I've hear multiple content creators talking about cracks at the forcing cones, when using conversion 45 colt cylinders. Blaming to hot of loads. Maybe, however I tend to believe that it's hard cast .452 swagging into a true. 44 caliber bore. I also believe that when manufacturers of cylinder conversion recommend no jacketed bullets, it's misleading to suggest that it is the rate twist causing jacket failures. It's bore size. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. 😉 Mountain man
You better Mountain Man, because it sounds correct. Wow, I was just on some forum looking for something and came across several stating that the bore diameter of the 36 calibers is .375. Wanted to comment, then why are they called 36 calibers? Dah. Parrots don't think, well, maybe actual ones do. Oh, that's why I was reading, because I was trying to get info on the conversion cylinders as I just got a 45 Colt for the 60 Uberti. You bet, that is a .440 bore, and even a .451 soft conical (that normally gets sized down by the chamber) won't like it much. I suspect anything harder is like the camel through the needle eye. Anyway, I was looking for some info on what groups look like using HBWC in the 36 conversion cylinders. Didn't check everything, best was Mike blasting some offhand and admiring that three seemed to be touching. Thanks for the information and comment. O.R..
@oldranger3044 so I have made a custom heal based bullet mold for my .36 cal heal @ .358 and main lands at .372 and a sizer die at .368 for the peitta. Slugging the bores is worth the extra effort. For the .44 I've been considering . 447 bullet molds but truthful need to slug barrels yet again to be sure, as I have both uberti and peitta model to consider hollow base does ok Mountain man
@oldranger3044 when I designed my .44 cap n ball bullets I found that my heal absolute maximum diameter with some fit difficulty was .446 so I want with a. 445 diameter. I suspect a Grove diameter of .444- 446ish. I have a .449, and a. 448 sizer die. I will slug before to long before I make custom mold. Thinking Keith style 220, 240 gr for my Remingtons
@@StevenMMan I don’t think I’ve asked, or maybe did and forgot, who is making the molds? I think you’re on the right track with designing because what’s available is less than desirable in most cases, or if there’s something good, it’s not well known. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 They taper in, at the mouth they were like .451 but quickly swage down to much further. The guide on my reamer keeps me from going too far down. I now have a consistent diameter when I load but still keep the taper near the base. Land to land the barrel is .452. Thanks for another great video and awesome shooting. I also get good accuracy with Lee 220 grain boolits and .457 RB.
Seems like I keep trying to, and occasionally have had some luck, to get the “silver bullet “ of a conical. Now, I’m thinking no such animal. Appears your name is the same as the builder of a hawken pistol that I met the owner of. O.R.
You got a great group with the 58 Remington on that 3rd target!
That man deserves more subscriptions!
Maybe, anyway, I sure appreciate your Sub and approval. O.R.
This was still a ideal question that needed a answer thanks I would have never thought of it
@@kevincowan4887 Well, it was an idea anyway, but I don’t have a memory of it making a huge difference. Also, I don’t see lots of conicals lying about in the shooting shed with tape on their base. . 🤔. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 just wondering ever herd of anyone using a sabot in a 44 cal colt with a under sized bullet like we do in muzzle loaders ??
@@kevincowan4887 No, I haven’t. I’m not experienced at all in this arena. Most rifles using them are probably 45 or 50 calibers. I would then think the sabot diameter is .450 or ..500, or slightly larger. The 44 caliber cap and ball pistols have chambers around .446. A .454 pure lead round ball shaves (or changes shape) to fit and seal the chamber. I have little idea how the plastic .450+ (if that’s their size) will like that plan, and there could be other complications. O.R.
Hello, thanks for all your great videos. I have just purchased a couple of Erasgone Conical moulds. The .44 Johnson & Dow & the .36 Colt Navy. I'm in the UK so I'm really happy to get them. I'm going to review my revolvers like you did in your other videos to see what guns can take the conicals. It looks like I'll have to remove the cylinders and use a loading press in some cases. I'm hoping to load up some cartridges using these heeled bullets and try them out, I'll also try some bare conicals to see how they go. I'm very impressed by the accuracy of your shooting and your videos are certainly inspiring for me to shoot better !! Thanks again Cheers Chris
@@chrisbrown4002 Thanks Chris. The Earsgone are interesting for sure. I had some hopes they would be the “silver bullet” in accuracy compared to other conicals that I have tried, especially in the 36 caliber guns. So far (with a few exceptions) the round ball does somewhat better. I suspect that because the modern replicas are mostly not progressive twist, they may not be getting the necessary rotation to stabilize. We can be thankful to Mark for doing the work to make these molds available. Thanks again, I enjoy making the videos and am impressed how well these replica guns do. O.R.
Howdy O.R. I had the same problem seating the J&D bullets so I ended up sizing them down to .454 (they come out at .460)
This helped significantly.
Good plan. So far my results have been that if someone was a good shot, and aiming at me at 100 yds, I’d feel pretty safe for a couple shots. If they had a trigger jerk to the right and the bullet took an unannounced turn left, oh well, everybody has to go sometime. Thanks Jake, I know I’m loosing muscle mass, but that loading was ridiculous. I’ll bet a brass frame 51 would never be the same. Great work with the powders. O.R.
Group # 3 was very nice!
For Airguns it's been found to be helpful of the slugs are polished smooth. Perhaps the paper accomplishes the same for cap and ball guns.
@@gctdonyre Thanks for the info. O.R.
Excellent informative video as always my Friend. Thumbs up ~John
Good work O R.
Awesome grease gun there you got
When it works right, I'm happy. When I need to refill, not as happy, and when the temps go into the 40's or 50's, not at all happy. Thanks. O.R.
I use the .44 Kerr conical …
Same here, work great!
Uberti loading lever is shaped for conicals. Pietta for round balls
I see what you mean about the mis location using the J&D projectiles, there is a great risk of the spigot locating to one side of the chamber, that will give a very asymmetric weight distribution, but the star here was that 3rd group of round balls! That is an outstanding group! Are the J&D cast from pure lead? I have tried hollow base bullets, but they are not good, I think the soft lead is flared out on leaving the muzzle and causes stability problems. Stay safe! Chris B.
Yes, pure lead, and otherwise I would have used my hydraulic press. While I was trying to load them I was thinking about how easy it would be to loosen the arbor on a brass frame gun by trying to load an oversized or hardened bullet. Especially in the 51 style guns there would be a good amount of side pressure on the arbor. I’m betting that could be one reason the brass frame gained a bad rep. Another of course would be firing heavy bullets with heavy loads. Anyway, all ended well, and appeared from that third string that the Remington survived. One comment suggested sizing the J&D first which would have helped. Another suggested the Kerr bullet, which I may order. Just don’t plan at present to do much shooting with the conicals, but the Kerr sounds tempting, but the cost of playing will be about $ 90,,,,but then its all in the name of science. Oh, I just shot two strings of the paper rings in the Walker. Let’s just say it wasn’t one hole, and it took 20+ minutes to tape up 12 rounds. I had planned to chuck the two cavity mold in the 4-jaw and remove the band that causes the recess (one cavity only), but the handles wouldn’t clear the lathe bed. Need to talk up the idea of a Father’s Day 10 inch lathe. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 The "stretching" of brass frames is no doubt caused by people attempting to load oversize ball in these pistols, I think the 1851 style rammer is less efficient than the creeping type, but overloads are also a bad thing in brass framed pistols, when you think we are probably putting more shots through these guns than ever people did back in the day you can see why they get worn out, the idea of skimming the spigot out more in the mould is really good, I just wish I lived closer, 30 minutes in a 4 jaw chuck would see that done, I can swing 14" on my gap bed lathe, stay safe! Chris B.
First video I’ve watched of yours. I don’t have any black powder guns. But it was interesting
Thanks. 😃. O.R.
Nice shootin !
How did you make your modified grease gun?
@@duigiud Not to difficult to do. I started with the mini grease gun from harbor freight. Amazon lubrimatic 30-800 looks about the same. On the harbor freight I removed the grease from the cartridge that came with it. The empty one got inserted and lube added. I have a selection of zerk fittings and used a 45 degree 1/4-28, take apart and remove spring and ball. I found some 3/16 tube that fit over the threads so when the grease fitting goes into the gun the tube slides into the chambers. Works really good when working. A bit messy on refilling. Also sometimes airlocks. Even Elon Musk has problems with first attempts. Maybe this helps, probably could do a video if there was interest. As with most lube, viscosity is key. Too stiff won’t work. O.R.
@ Thanks 😊
Well. back to the drawing board. and That's the way it is. even in modern metallic rounds. Peace - Dave
Absolutely the diameter of these cylinders are smaller than most think. Which in my experience the bore is slightly smaller. I mentioned before I did a video comparing Remington navy models bore diameters uberti. 371, peitta .3665. Yet individuals will insist the bore diameters. 375. Which proves if you hear it enough you stop critically thinking. Recently I've hear multiple content creators talking about cracks at the forcing cones, when using conversion 45 colt cylinders. Blaming to hot of loads. Maybe, however I tend to believe that it's hard cast .452 swagging into a true. 44 caliber bore. I also believe that when manufacturers of cylinder conversion recommend no jacketed bullets, it's misleading to suggest that it is the rate twist causing jacket failures. It's bore size.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. 😉
Mountain man
You better Mountain Man, because it sounds correct. Wow, I was just on some forum looking for something and came across several stating that the bore diameter of the 36 calibers is .375. Wanted to comment, then why are they called 36 calibers? Dah. Parrots don't think, well, maybe actual ones do. Oh, that's why I was reading, because I was trying to get info on the conversion cylinders as I just got a 45 Colt for the 60 Uberti. You bet, that is a .440 bore, and even a .451 soft conical (that normally gets sized down by the chamber) won't like it much. I suspect anything harder is like the camel through the needle eye.
Anyway, I was looking for some info on what groups look like using HBWC in the 36 conversion cylinders. Didn't check everything, best was Mike blasting some offhand and admiring that three seemed to be touching. Thanks for the information and comment. O.R..
@oldranger3044 so I have made a custom heal based bullet mold for my .36 cal heal @ .358 and main lands at .372 and a sizer die at .368 for the peitta. Slugging the bores is worth the extra effort. For the .44 I've been considering . 447 bullet molds but truthful need to slug barrels yet again to be sure, as I have both uberti and peitta model to consider
hollow base does ok
Mountain man
@oldranger3044 when I designed my .44 cap n ball bullets I found that my heal absolute maximum diameter with some fit difficulty was .446 so I want with a. 445 diameter. I suspect a Grove diameter of .444- 446ish. I have a .449, and a. 448 sizer die. I will slug before to long before I make custom mold. Thinking Keith style 220, 240 gr for my Remingtons
@@StevenMMan I don’t think I’ve asked, or maybe did and forgot, who is making the molds? I think you’re on the right track with designing because what’s available is less than desirable in most cases, or if there’s something good, it’s not well known. O.R.
My wife would have looked at me like I was Trappist C
Round ball wins again. Well every time actually
Try reaming your cylinder. All my Pietta's are tight. I ream to .4525.
Just a question: Do you know what original chambers were bored at? O.R.
@@oldranger3044 They taper in, at the mouth they were like .451 but quickly swage down to much further. The guide on my reamer keeps me from going too far down. I now have a consistent diameter when I load but still keep the taper near the base. Land to land the barrel is .452. Thanks for another great video and awesome shooting. I also get good accuracy with Lee 220 grain boolits and .457 RB.
@@SuperSneakySteve Thanks for getting back on this. Have a great shooting season and you stay safe. O.R.
if you used 456 balls so you cut a washer you would get better groups with round ball.
I had the same problem I basically turned them into wadcutters an my gun shoots round balls better it a waste of money time an lead
Seems like I keep trying to, and occasionally have had some luck, to get the “silver bullet “ of a conical. Now, I’m thinking no such animal. Appears your name is the same as the builder of a hawken pistol that I met the owner of. O.R.
use hollow base bullets.
Any suggestion on what mold or mold suppliers ? O.R.